Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumSo, Hillary DUers are leaving to find "real democratic values?"
WTF?
What in the hell are "real democratic values?"
As far as I'm concerned, Hillary's campaign is about establishment politics and getting the first woman elected.
I just can't go there. Sorry.
Other than women's rights (which are very important), I just don't trust Hillary to nominate judges that would overturn Citizen's United or that she will do anything to help the 99%.
jalan48
(13,797 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The DLC are just pro-choice Republicans..
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)The DLC/Third Way is made up of not only pro-choice Republicans, but also Republicans who support gay rights.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)2004: "I would have voted for DOMA. To talk about DOMA now is divisive."
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)the DLC is firmly right wing. Pro-war, pro-GMOs, Pro-Citizen's United, Pro for-profit prisons, pro Walmart business practices, anti-immigration, pro-spying on citizens, anti-environment, anti- Glass Steagall, pro-fracking, pro-fossil fuels, pro regime change in every weaker Nation with profitable natural resources, anti-union, etc. Hillary is even limited on her "pro-choice" stance, did not support equal wages for women while on the board at Walmart, and has not said that supports the ERA. She is for all intents and purposes a Reagan or G.W. Bush Republican, so why not join forces with moderate Republicans?
corkhead
(6,119 posts)good riddance.
DeGreg
(72 posts)Their politics are Republican and insisting that's not the case is nothing but denial, and they ought to seek counseling for the way they are processing their reality.
So get... go form The Establishment Party with all the other people who have been manipulated by FEAR
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)considering people who don't like Trump, but will vote for him before Hillary the same probably would go with Hillary Supporters. they'd support anyone on the otherside except trump. Except that particular guy (Rand Paul) dropped out. Only one I'd compare to Bernie from the right. (hey Ron Paul coulda run come on ) But if Rachel is friends with Roger Ailes I can see where this would go
Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)
artyteacher This message was self-deleted by its author.
TBF
(31,919 posts)you are in the Bernie Sanders group.
Most of us have voted for dems for years. Even though I personally think of myself as more leftist in nature I have voted for EVERY dem candidate for president since 1992.
So, you can take your crap elsewhere.
artyteacher
(598 posts)I didn't see the group. I'll try to delete.
Jopin Klobe
(779 posts)... for the very civil reply and for following through ...
... I wish all correspondence were this civil ...
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)Including for Bill Clinton. So have the vast majority of Bernie supporters on this board. And I have been on this board since 2004 unlike some who joined six months ago.
The problem isn't that we aren't Democrats, it's that the party establishment keeps trying to be Republicans.
But you just go ahead and appoint yourself as the arbiter of who is a real Democrat.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)something is terribly, terribly wrong.
You can argue that you think Hillary has the better chance, but single payer healthcare and affordable or free college have been democratic values on this board for as long as I have been reading here - which is a long, long time.
ETA - replied to wrong post, but will leave this post, anyway.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)The ones who would vote for Sauron if he had a (D) after his name.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Yesterday, someone posted about an npr employee who said npr is afraid of being eliminated if a Republican becomes President. They thought (assumed) Hillary had a better chance of winning the general. Ergo, they stabbed Bernie in the back.
I think a lot of government employees and others who benefit personally from having a Democrat in the Oval Office operate similarly. IOW, as so often happens, "Follow the money," is great political advice.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)My view is on that subject was that's self interest, in one way or the other, and often relates to money.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)benefit themselves. I knew several that went to DC with Clinton. Very good item on their resume. It was always "what can my country do for me, not what they can do for their country".
merrily
(45,251 posts)in that bag, but so are so many others. To paraphrase Mel Brooks, "It's good to be the establishment candidate."
On the other hand, it didn't work well for Jeb! and Marco seems to be going down the chute, too. Trump and Cruz are batshot and nasty to boot. Kasich?
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)they had anything pleasant to say about him. It may have been just those people I don't know. But I really feel it will come down to Trump and whoever the RNC wheels pick to run.
Duval
(4,280 posts)I stopped donating and watching/listening to PBS years ago.
merrily
(45,251 posts)NPR was only an example of that. However, I agree that public television and radio are nothing like they used to be.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)They're so bad I keep trying to come up with the best name for it. I think I just did.
(I had some others: National Puke Radio, National rePublicrat Radio...)
NPR was ruined by Republicrat defunding, and Corporate stepping in.
They are re-e-e-e-e-e-e-ally bad!
I gave up TV long ago, but have few choices on my commute so I tune in our (very good) community radio station. The only time they're NOT good is when they run frigging NPR. And you know why they do that--to the objection of many, many members and listeners? Debt! Management got them into debt to NPR, which they have to pay off before they can drop them!
It's just so typical of how our Corporate Rulers control everything. It sucks! We gotta change this.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)NPR is a little less so. I have some friends who work for them and they claim to be politically neutral, though they are a good bit more conservative than I am.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)and "privatized" many former government responsibilities.
It was DLC/Centrist Bill Clinton who echoed Reagan when he proclaimed that "The era of big government is over!!!"
If I were a government employee in fear of losing my job, the last Democrat I would support would be any Clinton or other 3rd Way Centrist.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Your alternative would not be Bernie but a Republican.
For how long did some of our fellow DUers try to tell us Hillary had to be the nominee or "say hello to President Cruz." If I saw that once, I saw it 200 times.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)The issues really don't seem to matter to them. It's all about brand loyalty and personal identity, no different than the average hardcore sports fan. I see much of the same on the GOP side. Labels and branding is everything, issues and policy positions are just inconvenient details that are kind of boring to them. It's all about the "win", not the effect that it has on us or the planet. I guess that's what we get for living in a consumer culture for the past Century!
Raster
(20,996 posts)TBF
(31,919 posts)it will involve folks who would have liked Goldwater. Smh.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I dislike it for both reasons.
djean111
(14,255 posts)No actual values involved except blind loyalty to a brand. IMO and all that.
ananda
(28,779 posts)The only candidate with real democratic values is Sanders!
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Now, that's not a democratic value? Seriously? WTF?
I call it vagina blinders. The candidate has a vagina, so it's ok to wear blinders in order not to see what Hillary really stands for.
We are the richest country in the world. Single payer healthcare should be the least that we offer our citizens!
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)The LEAST we offer!!!
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Like actual government programs that help people. The kind the republicans always scream are pie in the sky, unrealistic, idealistic, socialistic, too expensive?
Like putting people before corporations? And welcoming the scorn of the rich and powerful, not telling them how wonderful they are.
Like favoring the rich paying their fair share of the tax requirements?
Bernie has those REAL values. Hillary, not so much.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)her history is finding "compromise" to appease religious conservatives.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)Isn't she a member of some scary dominionist group? I wonder if her pro-choice rhetoric isn't the appeasement, to mask her true beliefs.
She has regularly attended "The Family" Prayer Breakfasts in the past.
I don't know if she still does.
"The Family" is very secretive, and very creepy.
The "Family" - Who Really Is Behind This Secret Organization?
What if someone were to tell you that your Congressman routinely bandies around phrases such as "Jesus plus nothing," used to mean the complete rule of Jesus, and compares the desired reach to that of Hitler or Ho Chi Minh? If this makes you at all apprehensive, then Jeff Sharlet's "C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy" is a must-read.
"Jesus plus nothing" is the mantra of the Fellowship, also known as the Family, a secret, fundamentalist Christian organization peopled primarily by devout policy makers and high-ranking individuals. Though the nonbeliever's view of religion can often be dismissive when faced with such catchphrases, in "C Street," a nonfiction account of the extended reach of the Family, these phrases fuel moral crusades with real, and terrifying, impact.
Sharlet first introduced the world to the unseen hand of the Fellowship in "The Family" in 2008, in which he reported on the organization's beginnings in the 18th century, uncovered the role of the Family in America's legislative system and uncovered the role of religious fundamentalism in our supposedly secular nation.
<much more>
http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/93642:the-family--who-really-is-behind-this-secret-organization
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Messy corporate carpet buggers ain't even litter box trained.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)to Trump otherwise
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)bye, bye!
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)I could lead them RIGHT to what they seek - and they wouldn't recognize it. Once they became intoxicated with their own farts - there's no hope that they can think straight and discern what's what.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Pant suits?
Of course one super duper Dem value is being able to speak your mind, even if it criticizes another Dem. This excellent value is prominently displayed in the Hillary Group, which is a beacon of tolerance!
fbc
(1,668 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Please, GO!
Gene Debs
(582 posts)I don't see why anyone would vote for Hillary even then.
merrily
(45,251 posts)about that!
n2doc
(47,953 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)But I well remember the PUMAS. I've been reading here since I supported John Edwards. I won't be taken in again by a hypocrite regardless of what comes out of the mouth.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I'm going for FDR malt myself. Those are the real democratic values I grew up knowing.
840high
(17,196 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)-Start wars and overthrow regimes while our men and women fight these wars
-Keep the big banks operating at a healthy profit while people are nickel and dimed out of their savings
-Maintain low wages so that people have to live off the government
-Give tax incentives to corporations for giving their employees a bone to munch on
-Work with like minded Republicans in destroying the middle class
-Selling off parts of government to private firms so they profit off tax payers and give sub-par service
-Bring HB1 visa help to displace hard working Americans
-Embrace Free Trade
If these are the values that they embrace then they can have my share. Refusing to support a crooked politician in the primaries is the most Democratic thing about our way of life. I've got more important things to worry about than voting for a self serving politician who only remembers the people when its time to be elected for office.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)*The Declaration of Independence.
*The U. S. Constitution
*The Bill of Rights
Everyone of the above documents has something to say that's against your list. The wording may be quaint and broad brushed but it's there.
Wars are to be fought in defense of the country and only when authorized by Congress.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" as posited in the Declaration of Independence as well as those listed in the Bill of Rights covers the rest.
None of our American values says that corporations will run the government for their benefit, nor raid and plunder other nations for their profit and with the aid of our military.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)I think they meant that they've lost their Democratic values instead of finding them. Thanks for pointing this out.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Door let the door hit ya on the way..... Applies here.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)It would be fantastic.
cprise
(8,445 posts)It makes for very good publicity while she's handing the country over to corporations and Saudi princes.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Meta. Plain and simple. I will alert admins also
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 10, 2016, 01:11 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Abuse of the alert system.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've seen worse than this in another protected group that was not hidden.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is discussion about issues - alert all you like but then take a chill pill and step away from the computer before your head pops
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: call the waaaambulance
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's up to the Bernie group hosts to decide how much meta to permit in this group. I think this post is completely acceptable. And I sure wish the HRC crew would agree to occupy their time with something other than policing a protected group they disagree with. A hobby, or something. I hear knitting is a nice pastime.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Very mild stuff. Visit the Gungeon for a good dose of animosity.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)I was juror no. 5.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)Don't worry, though, the others will pick up their slack.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Hillary tried to damage Barack Obama in the general, which I'll be posting some info on later, so I have no doubt once she's done getting what she wants, she'll ignore everything she said to get there and play ball with the ones with money
She's proven it
merrily
(45,251 posts)is not" was a jaw dropper. I don't know if she meant to hurt him in the general as much as she was trying to prevent him from getting as far as the general by terra-izing his supporter. I know of no other instance in which a Democratic nominee for President endorsed the Republican nominee over another Democrat running for POTUS. Which is what raises all the Hillary loyalty oath stuff to the nth degree of silly.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)Reminds me of:
There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See:
According to the Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings this proverb has been traced back to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse Jeremiah 5:21 (Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not). In 1738 it was used by Jonathan Swift in his Polite Conversation and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 Works of Thomas Chalkley. The full saying is: There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)Those found in the Scandinavian countries?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)And will this primary leave DU a ghost town?
Seems both 'sides' are finding other places for discussion.
JGug1
(320 posts)Seriously? You can't trust her to nominate liberal judges? I'm incredulous. There is NO question that she is more hawkish than Bernie and I have really appreciated what he has brought to the campaign because he has pushed her more left (and I don't think it is a temporary thing) but to not trust her to nominate liberals seems a huge stretch. Here's were I am on the nomination: There are pluses and minuses to both candidates. There was a fair discussion on Democracy Now this morning on the two of them. My major concern regarding Bernie is that he is an unknown. By that I mean that the stuff in his baggage has not been exposed and there probably are some dynamite items in there. His comments regarding Castro have now been brought out. Those will be exploited by the Republicans and there may very well be far more. That isn't the case with Hillary Clinton. Her stuff is already on the table. No, the email thingy isn't going to become worse. She did what others before her had done. I think that makes her a stronger candidate. I don't like her being more hawkish but if she is like her husband (and I think she is) we should remember that he did not take us into a ground war.
I'm going to try to enjoy the rest of the campaign and vote for the one left standing, with a tip of my hat to the loser.
Beowulf
(761 posts)much worse, and no, past SoS's didn't do the same thing. She took it to a whole other level.
MidwestTech
(170 posts)The ONLY reason we know of Hillary is because of Bill.
NO ONE knew who Bill Clinton was until he miraculously won the nomination.
NO ONE knew who Dan Quayle was when he was picked as VP.
A few people had heard of Gore when he ran in the primary then as VP
NO ONE had heard of Barack Obama before he ran.
When W ran he was mistaken for that 'other' bush at first... the savings and loan scandal guy.
So ... yeah "he isn't known" is a complete bullshit argument recently invented.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)Seriously, I'm losing patience here. So frustrated lately.
ellennelle
(614 posts)this whole business here has left me so baffled and flummoxed.
this culminated in a post earlier today by lonepirate - who said s/he was a bernie supporter - offering apologies to the hillary folks for bernie supporters' nastiness etc. which i thought was a great thing, so i tried to comment.
but, i was blocked. it was a longstanding block from something i never understood and of course was unable to defend.
so my question is, WTF? was lonepirate posting on the hillary group intentionally? fair enough. but what of the numbers of folks they've blocked - and i'm sure there are lots - who have valid and valuable contributions to make to their own discussion? are they so thin-skinned they require a bubble to feel secure?
i don't get it. and now they're fleeing?
i really don't get it.
Gore1FL
(21,027 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)not "Third Way" values. They are not RepubliCLOWN values.
They should be within the vein of the values set by FDR and his second bill of rights, or JFK.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)who distort the truths of good people.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)She supports increasing federal restrictions on abortions; I assume she'd appoint a judge that agrees with her.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--as a trustworthy advocate for women's rights.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And btw... you can't trust Hillary on women's rights either. She would sell them out to get into the White House. She said she would compromise on a woman's right to choose, to control her own body.
.