I think they genuinely don't understand why we (many of us) don't support HRC

[Ned_Devine]

The more I read the back and forth on GDP, the more I see defense of HRC despite us constantly pointing out her obvious flaws. And they're not just minor flaws. They're fatal flaws. They're either dense, oblivious, or they're not real supporters, but paid supporters sent here to rouse the rabble. Whatever the case, this has been an amazing time on DU and I've been here for a few election cycles. By amazing, I mean disappointing. I'm seeing the democratic party shift incredibly to the right and I'm reading posts from people here justifying it. Are the democrats the new corporate conservative party?

[haikugal]

1. Yes and it's been true for decades but we didn't know. Her campaigne is total AstroTurf.

Thanks for the post and yes the Democratic Party is finished. The mask is off.

[Baobab]

16. People should read this book to understand what they have in store for us- This is it

Serving whose interests: The Political Economy of Trade in Services Agreements - by Jane Kelsey

Its on the web:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=20&hl=en&as_sdt=5,31&sciodt=0,31&cites=7516856237073706684&scipsc=

Also this, see the charts and description around page 287

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTRANETTRADE/Resources/C13.pdf

Basically, Americans, Europeans, etc, are alleged to make too much so they want us to step aside and let others working for very very low wages do everything.

Here as well as elsewhere.

Eventually all the wages will equalize at some much lower level than today, due to competition.

[haikugal]

17. This has been apparent, we took notice in the '70's...

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out using this post as a bookmark.



We now know the mechanism they use and we will never go back. The revolution is real and it's happening now!

[Karma13612]

25. thanks for this... +10

but, I have one thing for them:

If this is what they believe,

Eventually all the wages will equalize at some much lower level than today, due to competition.

then they sure as heck better offer me free universal healthcare cause just equalizing wages and not equalizing the other costs to live in this country versus the other countries is just ludicrous.

well on our way to being a 3rd world (oh wait I mean 3rd WAY) country.

[CoffeeCat]

19. The Hillary campaign...

Hillary has half the number of individual campaign contributions as Bernie.

She's lucky to draw a crowd of 500 at her rallies, while Bernie attracts 28,000.

Her campaign has to pay people to post in support of her on social media, because not enough people feel compelled or moved enough to stand up for her unless they're compensated.

Her entire campaign is an abomination. Her lack of REAL support is proof that she has dirty-tricked, cheated and stolen her way from state to state to state.

It is heartbreaking and devastating what she has done.

[haikugal]

20. Add to that the fact that she is a hard line war monger and we've hit the trifecta!

Under investigation too...Nixon had nothing on Hillary. She even has enemy lists...ha!

[Baobab]

22. Warmonger- She will be worse than Bush.

Yup. that seems to be the consensus.

[Karma13612]

26. +10

as always CoffeeCat, your words ring true.

And I am also heartbroken. Heartbroken and completely frustrated to see it happening before our eyes. And we are powerless because the methods are hard to track and combat.

Disgusted? Yes

Surprised? Nope

[greymouse]

31. we're not powerless, Karma.

If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, we can take our marbles and form a new party.

[Karma13612]

32. +10

WHERE do I sign up!

[greymouse]

34. That's my question too.

I'm sure if it comes to that, the news will be all over the place.

[Karma13612]

36. This is a revolution. This is history and it is

Darn exciting.

Cannot wait to see what happens.

[Plucketeer]

23. Democratic

Wunderground

[haikugal]

24. Wheeeeee!!

[pangaia]

2. I wish I didn't have to agree with you, but I certainly do.

It becomes worse and worse every week...

I have no idea where it will end up..

[berniepdx420]

3. +420

[Doctor_J]

4. They don't understand very much

Many, many functional morons, and whatever the word is for people with no principles.

[GoneFishin]

5. There are a lot of astroturfers.

[kpola12]

6. Agreed.

The corporate ties like six years on the board of Walmart. The hawkish neo-liberal history of supporting coups all over the world Honduras, Libya, Syria, Ukraine etc. Her flexibility on every other issue like fracking, TPP or keystone. When the truth is staring you in the face and you refuse to see there must be something else going on. There is something I'm missing. Do Democrats really think they can win the general without Independents. Fatal flaws you are correct.

[Gwhittey]

7. I some times post on Hannity forums

And at times reading some post here in GDP forums I get confused and start to reply like I am speaking to a GOPer. It is because same attacks I read here ie "Free Stuff" "Israel is great and Palestinians are all terrorists" "Big corporations are OK and great" etc make me have to look at top and make sure it is http://www.democraticunderground.com I am at.

[Hydra]

8. I know, I have the same reaction here

It's like GOP talking points are the new black, and they can't figure out why some of us don't want to be in fashion this season.

[ReasonableToo]

9. I think her flaws are so fatal that GOP has had to go after the hot button social issues

Like all these anti-choice and anti-LGBT actions so we feel compelled to say we HAVE to vote for her so Cruz/Trump/Kasich don't get in. Also so we don't see her pro-multinational corporation/bank, pro-environmental devastation, anti-single payer, practically right-wing positions for what they are.

Just say no to Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton dynasty!

[JDPriestly]

12. That is what they do every time. I don't know whether it will work this time.

[Kalidurga]

10. This is why I am done talking to them.

It really doesn't matter how legitimate my concerns are all I get from them is a "fuck you" response. I have had more enlightened conversations with conservatives at other websites.

[Ned_Devine]

11. Their responses to her speech before AIPAC are very telling

Even though it was from a few weeks ago, the content of her speech was very disturbing. If it had been Ted Cruz giving the exact speech, they would have been horrified. You're right though. All you get most of the time is a "fuck you" response.

[Kalidurga]

13. Hillary told me all I need to know about her hawkishness in the first debate

So, I was done listening to her then as well. Up to that point I wasn't #neverhillary

[Baobab]

18. Talk to them - We have almost won

(Shhhh!)

They want people to stop, to give up, because we have a better argument and they have nothing besides more of the same.

Even their sock puppets must realize that now. Should they continue working against their own best interests and futures despite the fact that its going to cost even them hundreds of thousands of dollars each in the long run, or even more.

because thats the cost of Clintonism and neoliberalism to society.

Its the biggest scam the biggest global scam in human history.

Did you read that link about the "labor mobility" trade in services scheme?

[SheilaT]

14. Agreed. And beyond that is the lurking email thing.

I have begun to think that the delay in ending the investigation is to allow her to be the nominee, then indict which would totally destroy her campaign.

[jpmonk91]

15. It's neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is unfortunately what is trying to take over the party. It's stemmed from reagonomics or voodoo economics. Everything keeps getting further to the right. It makes me feel disappointed as a voter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/neoliberalism

[oldandhappy]

27. yes, I do think democrats are the corporate party.

The manipulations and power and control and money grubbing and lies have chased me off. They say they want my vote but they chase me off. I started out for clinton and got chased off. Weird, eh?? Sad and sick. My county chair and our national chair and the DNC are all playing the manipulation and now the voter suppression game. After our primary I plan to hide out with the Greens for a few years. Maybe two terms, giggle!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. They won't have many on the ground to campaign for her

if she is nominated her campaign will have a job covering all the states without the activists

[LaurenG]

29. They are willing to settle for a continuation of the same old thing

The people who support Clinton over Sanders aren't progressives in the same way that Sanders supporters are.

[Ned_Devine]

30. Then they're not really progressives at all

The tell all for me is the celebrity types that support the two democrats. HRC gets pop stars that play substance free music like Demi Lovato or Katy Perry while Bernie gets real musicians like Grimes and Bonnie Raitt, to name a few. I know it's not very scientific, but to me it indicates that one is all show and no substance while the other is very genuine and not caught up in being on the cover of Teen Beat.

[libodem]

33. I seriously find her supporters off putting

I visited that site they set up to make fun of us and bash DU.

I don't think I can be cryptic enough to say what I want to and not break the rules.

So many of those user names came from one of the women's groups famous for starting GD flame wars. It's the same smug intolerance, the condemnation, the utter contempt, they are masters at it.

How many are banned from the Hillary group? Is it 900?

My way. Or the hiway.

Same folks. Different hang out.

[Blue Meany]

35. At some point, progressives are going to have to stay home or vote for another candidate

Otherwise the establishment Dems will never feel they have to do anything to keep progressives.

[jfern]

37. They seem to either thing we are using right-wing attacks

or are critical of her because we support Bernie. Neither is true.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

38. I started out supporting another candidate. But I never even considered backing Hillary. n/t