If Bernie would continue as an INDEPENDENT...

[AmBlue]

...assuming he doesn't win the D nomination, what does that look like? How would it work? And does it make sense? As in, would it give Bernie a realistic chance of winning the Presidency?? I am not seeing this discussed in a serious way and I'm wondering if we should be considering it.

[mooseprime]

1. i think i read somewhere

that the cutoff dates for getting on state ballots vary, and that it would be too late for some of them. well on top of he said he wouldn't do it

[Kip Humphrey]

3. there is a path to Bernie running in enough states to win the electoral college should he choose

to run independently after of the DWS-DNC convention. It is a bit complex but Bernie can run in 46 states deciding after the convention.

Were a grassroots effort to register state Bernicrat parties (collecting signatures, paying incorporation and filing fees, etc.) in most states by the state filing deadlines would simplify the process certainly.

[mooseprime]

4. well that's great news

but it's hard to imagine him going back on his solid statements of the past, no?

[GoneFishin]

35. Yeah. Well, it's hard to imagine the DNC waging a 50 state assault using every tentacle of it's

apparatus to smear, bash, and cheat Bernie out of a fair and honest primary. Yet there you have it.

Their hostility and sleazy behavior deserves a swift kick in the ass. He doesn't owe the DNC a thing. Bernie is honest, but he is not a door mat.

[Baobab]

50. I wonder how much election fraud is going on now?

It seems like there may be a lot.. and neither party can really be trusted... that presents a dilemma for a third party candidate..because of how the votes are counted.

Hypothetically,
Suppose they were really just one party pretending to be two?

[AmBlue]

53. Seems quite possible, Baobob. Even likely.

When you take the 10,000 ft view, all the moreso. Everything is pushing voters to HRC. The media especially. My theory is that Trump was just suppose to be the boogie man that made HRC look like a voter's dream come true. I even saw David Koch saying HRC might be the best candidate, for goodness sake!

[GoneFishin]

64. Both parties get their big money from the same industries. It's plausible that industry lobbyists

said "Look, if you two guys work together you will have permanent control over the tax payer gravy train".

[AmBlue]

8. Thank you... I appreciate that.

Bernie has such a well-oiled machine now, and so many people supporting him--like myself-- that are not going away, this idea seems to me to be worthy of a discussion, at least.

[In_The_Wind]

2. I seem to remember Bernie said that he wouldn't do that.

[SmittynMo]

5. Bernie is in with the Dems as he has shown.

He is a man of his word. He won't run independent.

[FarPoint]

6. Bernie always has been an Independent...

He should of stayed away from the Democratic Party altogether..... He used the Party ....a dishonest man.

[AmBlue]

10. Not true...he has always caucused with the Dems.

Wow... Lots of naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... Hmmm. That REALLY makes me think we need to talk about this!

[truebluegreen]

12. As a lifelong FDR Democrat

I can tell you that Bernie is far closer to my ideals than most in the modern so-called Democratic Party, and has not wavered or triangulated in his support of said ideals in 30+ years. Again, unlike "others" who claim that title.

Why are you in the Bernie Sanders group anyway? And fyi, the correct construction is, "He should HAVE stayed away...."

[pangaia]

29. BRAVO on the should HAVE.. LOL!!!!

[pangaia]

27. Oh Jeeze,, no this again and again and again and again and again and again

[bkkyosemite]

28. No but your gal had to duck for sniper fire

[Scootaloo]

32. Awwww. Are you lost?

[lostnfound]

61. I'm a dishonest woman. Been using the Dem party for 37 years, me and millions more progressives...

You want us all to leave?

[Jubilant18]

72. Bernie could not have been in the Democratic Party and still be Bernie.

They would have ousted him long ago for not being a DLC Democrat. Being Independent was the only way for him to stay true to himself.

[truebluegreen]

7. He won't, and he shouldn't.

I'd be fine with Ted Cruz as a third party candidate though.

[AmBlue]

11. Why? eom

[truebluegreen]

13. Because he and the Donald would split the crazy vote

and the Democratic nominee would probably win 50 states.

[AmBlue]

15. Ahh... I see. Makes sense.

But that's definitely not happening now, no? I'm just interested in ANY path that accomplishes the goal of making Bernie our next President. If it's doable, I think he should do it. And we all should be doing our part to explore the possibility.

[truebluegreen]

18. I agree.

But that is a decision that is easier for me than for the vast majority: I no longer live in the US, have no plans to return, and I guarantee I won't if the crazy people win this election (fwiw, I left in 2010, after it became apparent that the Hope and Change I worked for was not coming to pass).

Bernie is the only small ray of hope I see in this particular tunnel and I will do all in my power to support him. If Hillary and Trump are the best the American political system can put up...well, I'm grateful that I don't have to be there for it.

[Maedhros]

9. He has said that he won't run as an Independent, and there is no reason to believe

he would renege on that promise.

However, in a big-picture sense, it would make a lot of sense. The Independent voter is unrepresented under our current system. The Independent voter is for the most part locked out of the primary processes for both Parties and thus is forced to choose between two candidates that are selected based upon their ability to pander to their respective rank-and-file. Thus, the Independent voter in this General Election will get to choose between two candidates that have little or nothing to offer them.

So, in this election, there will be no Independent Sanders campaign. Next election, I would not be surprised to see a candidate tap the Sanders support base for an Independent run. That candidate will get my vote, if their platform mirrors Bernie's.

[AmBlue]

14. If it would give him a path to the White House...

Who cares if he reneges?

[Maedhros]

16. The problem is, bluntly, widespread cowardice among the Left.

We tremble and quake at the specter of a Republican President every single election cycle. We have been very, very well-conditioned by Third Way propaganda telling us that the only consideration for voting is the letter after the candidate's name. Thus, legions of liberal voters who agree nearly 100% with Bernie's platform will refuse to vote for him as an Independent out of fear of "splitting the vote."

It's frustrating, because if everyone who agreed with Bernie would vote for him, he'd win.

[AmBlue]

19. Well, Bernie is no coward, and our numbers are LEGION this time.

Hell... Almost every long-time Dem I know that supports Bernie is ready to switch to Indy the moment the Hillicrats crown their queen. I know I will. If he switches to Indy, we can all just change lanes and keep running!! We have the numbers, and the money, and the will to make it happen. I'm having a hard time seeing what is not doable about it. In fact, it feels like the planets are aligning perfectly for this, actually.

And besides all that, I'm fucking tired of settling for LESS than what this country needs, frankly.

[Maedhros]

21. I'm with you!

I think progressives are waking up to the fact that we've been played by the Democratic Establishment, who have no intention of ever meeting any of our demands or enacting any of our policy proposals. "Impeachment is off the table" followed by "look forward, not back" followed by not even trying for a public option followed by "eat your peas!" followed by indefinite detention followed by "social security is on the table", etc., etc., etc. has led to a sea change in progressives' attitudes.

It's time progressives asked the Democratic Party "What have you done for us lately?" If we don't see some concrete action - not just promises - to start fixing problems, then progressives need to go elsewhere.

[AmBlue]

23. They WANT us to believe we are WEAK and powerless.

That's been their schtick for decades!!! And we fall for it every time!!

Damn it, this time it is the oligarchs that are quaking in their boots! Why else would the M$M be working so freaking hard to first ignore then minimize Bernie, all the while stuffing Trump down our throats 24/7??

They are pushing all the sheep to HRC because that is who THEY want. And they are doing a great job of it. The only real question is, do we continue to LET them??

What we and Bernie have done this time is nothing less than monolithic in significance and historic in proportion. It's time we OWN that, whether it makes fucking CNN or not!!! The only thing that matters is WINNING. By whatever means, short of cheating.

I smell their FEAR. We are far more powerful than we realize... We just need to find the collective will to rise up and use it. Now is certainly not the time to shrink from our power. Much to the contrary.

[Maedhros]

26. This is why there is such an intense "unity" effort.

Conservative Democrats - which is becoming a redundant term - want desperately to bring us back into the fold, where we can be managed and controlled. They are selling the idea that Bernie and Hillary are both excellent choices, gosh darn it, and we can all sing kumbaya around the big inclusive Democratic bonfire.

The problem is, the bonfire is being fueled by corporate conciliation and war.

[AmBlue]

33. Precisely, and conciliation equals THEY WIN.

The freaking OLIGARCHS win. AGAIN.

So why isn't this a no-brainer?? What have we got to lose??

[Maedhros]

56. What have we got to lose? The illusion of security.

With our powerful, wise, compassionate Leader in the White House, and not theirs.

[AmBlue]

67. I'd so rather a REAL president fighting for us....

...and true security and meaningful peace, than an illusion. Tired of the fakery.

[Baobab]

65. UNTIE is more like it. Hillary intends to make absolutely NO changes to her platform, FYI.

She's the most dishonest candidate I have ever seen in politics. She's trying to play dumb now.

But I do know enough about Hillary and her dishonesty over health care that I can never vote for her.

Her neoliberal agenda to lock up the future for the rich and multinational corporations and to exclude morality and compassion and to destitute the rest of us and hijack democracy forever for corporations are NEVER getting my vote.

[Karma13612]

71. Count me in +100 eom

[truebluegreen]

17. I personally would LOVE to see him win

BUT I think he won't try it. The downside is too uuuuuge: Bernie won't risk Trump (or any other Republican) beating the Democratic nominee, even if it isn't him.

That said, I expect he will be a constant and troublesome thorn in Hillary's side.... ....and I hope for a new, "independent" Party in the future.

[Baobab]

52. Two party system makes it almost impossible.

However it seems as if the two current parties may merge..
A lot of Republican hawks are changing to the Hillary camp in disgust at Trump, or so they claim.

[truebluegreen]

63. That's why I put "independent" in quotes.

I don't care what the party calls itself--Democratic will do nicely--I do care what policies and positions they espouse. Maybe the Business Party will stop pretending to be two different parties, and the rest of us (the vast majority of us) can form a reborn Democratic party.

[yodermon]

87. If hillary is indicted (OR if FBI recommends indictment) AND the Dem party installs {e.g. Biden}

THEN i think Bernie may say All bets are off, I'm running Indy.

[jillan]

20. I bet he wishes he did this from the beginning.

It wouldn't have made any difference. But now it's too late. It would look like a desperate move and would split the Democratic Party in half which would lead to a president trump.

[AmBlue]

22. I'm not sure he would have come so far...

If he would have started off Indy. But now that the D party has given him the cold shoulder, it would actually make some sense to walk away from the Ds and keep going with the freaking phenomenal machine Bernie and all of us have built.

I hear Bruce Springsteen crying in my head, "Baby, we were born to run!!"

[Baobab]

48. Supremes "you keep me hanging on"

how about the classic Supremes "you keep me hanging on"

[AmBlue]

49. That one, too...

[AmBlue]

24. Self-reccing to nudge this.

I would like to hear more voices weigh in on this thread. Not to be dramatic, but I've got young kids that I'd like to leave a habitable Earth to. Appreciate any and all K&Rs.

[deepestblue]

25. President Sanders

Well, Bernie is no coward, and our numbers are LEGION this time.

Hell... Almost every long-time Dem I know that supports Bernie is ready to switch to Indy the moment the Hillicrats crown their queen. I know I will. If he switches to Indy, we can all just change lanes and keep running!! We have the numbers, and the money, and the will to make it happen. I'm having a hard time seeing what is not doable about it. In fact, it feels like the planets are aligning perfectly for this, actually.

And besides all that, I'm fucking tired of settling for LESS than what this country needs, frankly.

THIS. Assuming he is not the Dem. candidate which is certainly a possibility, he should run as an Independent.

Bernie attracts indies, conservatives/libertarians and liberals. It's a winning coalition. Get him in the debates in the fall and he will WIN.

We've come too far to just quit and go corporatist AGAIN, and the people in this country are in dire need of the principles Bernie is espousing.

President Sanders!

[floriduck]

34. I completely agree. Bernie has been blocked every way possible by

the DNC, print and TV media, Wall Street, corporate America, the Democratic Party, and their super-delegates. Bernie should consider the benefits of returning the favor to all of them.

Granted, it's a risky move but consider the benefits. It creates a legitimate third party, Bernie's donation sources are alive and well, and it may actually change the dynamics of young voters taking part in the GE process.

I have believed for a long time that Bernie playing by the "Party" rules will make him look like a sucker. And it will resolve nothing. He needs to lay it out and say, "I tried to play fair but now it's time to move to the next level".

I will back him to the top.

[AmBlue]

37. ^^^^THIS!!!^^^

Exactly!!!

[AmBlue]

36. Thank you.... and, YES, President Sanders!!

Say it loud and often, because.... Party unity = THE OLIGARCHS WIN AGAIN.

[BerninInBama]

41. I think he'd win a three-way race.

He's the only candidate with a positive favorability rating and no one has ever won the presidency without that. I'm completely in favor of him doing whatever it takes to be on the ballot in November. If he's not, then I will be leaving the country.

[AmBlue]

47. I agree.

I think he'd crush them both in a 3-way race.

[Fairgo]

30. I do not believe that is his mission

It's about loyalty to ideas. Running under D flag is about remembering what we are supposed to be. If that is not enough to light the fires of change, it is at least the kindling. No reason to burn down the house just because the owners are sleeping and the servants are too afraid to open the door. He will move with the movement. He doesn't own it, he is their vassal. And a damn good one.

[PoliticAverse]

31. It's not happening. Period. n/t

[silvershadow]

38. He won't. It looks like you are wishing, that's what it looks like. nt

[AmBlue]

42. Why, hell YES, I'm wishing...

Wishing for a President Bernie Sanders! And please tell me why it matters how we get there??

[silvershadow]

45. This is a Democrats board. Bernie has said he is a Democrat. Bernie has said he will remain so.

My purpose here is to get the best Democrat possible elected to every seat possible.

[AmBlue]

46. And I am a lifelong Democrat with the same goals.

But to me being Democrat is about deeply held principles, not about wearing a label. Anyone can wear a label. Truth be told, our Democratic party has been co-opted for purposes of supporting one candidate, and her name's not Bernie. There's been nothing like even-handed treatment of the two of them, either. Further, I truly believe that though HRC wears the label, she does not espouse the principles. What are we suppose to do about that?

[silvershadow]

55. I am a 50+ year Union labor man. The Clintons took the sledgehammer to jobs, the economy,

and Unions. If you support them, you failed me and my family and your own too.

[AmBlue]

59. Could not agree more.

My dad worked for Eastern Airlines for 30+ years, silvershadow. I remember all too well the terrible impact of that union-busting and dismantling of the company that so many workers, including my dad, had personally sacrificed for to save. We do not matter to these people.

[silvershadow]

69. I get the sense that, if Bernie doesn't win this thing, there will be a solid faction of Democrats

who will side with Bernie as he goes forward with a *real progressive caucus. One that has labor in mind. If we don't win this battle, we will eventually win the war. Truth has its' own way of finding daylight.

[greymouse]

57. Besides Bernie there are no Democrats running for President

My purpose is to get the best people elected to office, That happens to be people with Democratic principles; I don't care what their party label is.

Do you think someone who supports fracking, has waffled around about the pipeline and coal depending on the political winds, is pro war to the point of doing whatever Israel says, pro Wall Street, a corrupt liar, is a Democrat? I don't.

I am voting Bernie all the way, even if it means writing him in. I hope if he does not get the nomination he runs independent or green. There has been plenty enough voter fraud to justify that.

[AmBlue]

62. Thank you, greymouse.

You voiced my feelings exactly. What we have is a failure of the Democratic Party to do the right thing and elect person best qualified to represent our Democratic principles.

[eridani]

39. He is a man of his word. He said he wouldn't, so he won't

End of story.

[BerninInBama]

43. I just can't believe he would

leave this country to Clinton or Trump so easily! The higher morality is to keep going, not stick with something he said a while back. Things have changed a lot since then.

[Baobab]

66. A few years of Clintonomics will leave the country 100% behind real change.

The only problem is, legal immigrants will get blamed for a lot of bad policy which is not their fault.

She plans to globalize work so corporations can make more money. Not globalize overseas, globalize it here. Starting with the public sector. Its been in the pipeline since the Clinton years, actually.

Thats her "plan" for health care, throw the doctors and nurses under the buss so insurance and drug industries get their ways - All the bad stuff stays, all the good stuff must go, basically. Poorer sick people with cheaper insurance will get shipped overseas.

Same thing for education and other "industries" she wants to make more profitable for her employers.

[Blue Meany]

40. The only way I could see him doing this is if it were clear that Clinton

won through fraud, voter suppression and/or dirty tricks. I think that he could reasonably say that this voids his agreement not to run as an independent.

[AmBlue]

44. I think we crossed that rubicon back in Arizona.

Don't you? Or earlier even with DWS manipulating the debates in BFF Hilly's favor? And what about Bubba Bill invading multiple polling places and obstructing voters for hours and hours? Or 125,000 voters unable to vote and/or stricken from the rolls and party affiliations changed in the Bronx where Bernie grew up? I could go on....

[NorthCarolina]

86. ^^^Wow is this prophetic!^^^

Looking back can sometimes be fun!

[HooptieWagon]

51. He can't get on several states ballot.

And he's already stated he wouldn't run third party if he lost the nomination.

[AmBlue]

54. See reply #3 above.

And what he said was all BEFORE the D party treated him so badly.

[AmBlue]

60. Thanks, TM99.

Just felt some questions needed asking.

[TM99]

68. I never have problems with questions.

Others in another camp seem to always lack that critical edge.

[greymouse]

70. fuck them

yes, my old lady New England sensibilities have gone by the board. When I see a hidden post now, I immediately open it up and read it.

[hopemountain]

73. the democratic party has deceived bernie's campaign

and all of us who support him. i do not believe bernie ever believed the democratic party was controlled and corrupt as it has proven itself to be. as someone pointed out above, bernie will do the right thing for the american 99%. i support him whatever he decides. a vote for trump or billary is a vote against my own best interests and the people i love. nope, i cannot.

[Waiting For Everyman]

74. There are some remaining moves

which, along with what has already been shown in the Primary, may make the situation self-evident to nearly all who are watching, which will be a lot of people.

He has confronted the party about better representation of his delegates on the 3 major convention committees. I believe he only has something like 3 of his delegates on those committees out of 80-something. It's absurd on its face.

Then we'll see what happens when he insists on his platform, which represents our wing of the party. If we fight, and are shut out on that too, then the case can be presented to grassroots Dems, independents, and the public at large as to what has happened: that there has been a hostile take-over of the party by the Third Way led by the Clintons in the 1990s, and what occurred occurred during the Primary process (all of the incidents which we have all seen), and that due to the entire triangulated fraud, the whole scope of which was unknown before this Primary process caused it to be revealed (including the above confrontations during the convention), all bets are off. A very strong case can be made once all of the cards are played and turned over, so to speak.

There's another possibility (besides the FBI being a factor directly): if he has reason to know that she will be impeached, that would be the only way imo that he might accept a VP "compromise". If I see that happen, I will know what's going on.

It's a good question, AmBlue. I'm with Bernie in whatever he decides to do, however nobody tells me how to vote, not even him.

[LWolf]

75. I don't think he could win as an independent.

If he doesn't get the nomination, the senate still needs him.

The independent, or independents, will be the scapegoat/s for Clinton's loss of the GE. He doesn't need to carry that burden.

[mikehiggins]

76. no. we should not be discussing it, or considering it. He said he won't do it. End of story. nt

[DrDan]

77. Can not even get on the ballot in certain states

[jeepers]

82. He can get on 43 state ballots

giving him access to 494 electoral votes If he runs as a write in candidate(no name on the ballot) once he files an intent to run and pays a small fee.

I would like to see him run under the green ticket and as a write in where greens might not be on the ballot.

[HassleCat]

78. Independents don't stand a chance

The media do not tolerate independents running for president. It does not make sense because there is no chance he could win, even with Trump in the race.

[AmBlue]

84. The media haven't *tolerated* him as a D either!!

Media = OLIGARCHS

They're not going to *tolerate* Bernie in any form.

[w4rma]

79. The House of Representatives picks the next President, if no single nominee gets a *majority* of the

delegates. Therefore, any independent (or any other non-Republican/non-Democrat) wins a plurality of the vote, then the House of Representatives selects the next President and that President will be a member of the House majority's political party, not a third party.

[EdwardBernays]

80. I'd suggest

That supporters would have to make it clear that they plan on not voting for Hillary.

If he thought he had a chance to win and if he thought not running would mean a Trump win he might just do it.

[franannjo]

81. he could and he should

The democratic party laid every stone in his way,that they could think off.they actively sabotaged his campaign every step of the way after they agreed to have him run as democrat. Now they expect him to stand for something he said at the time? Where do this people come from? Crooks can't expect nothing from a man they just railroaded.

[AmBlue]

85. Thank you.

The D party behavior has been despicable.

[larkrake]

83. no, he wont risk destroying the progress he has made