Shout out to Bernie Sanders supporters: Please don't attack Hillary

[99th_Monkey]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Autumn (a host of the Bernie Sanders group).

I'm a strong & enthusiastic Sanders supporter, I've donated twice and plan
to probably donate more, and am volunteering. I absolutely love this guy,
and am very impressed so far in how he's been conducting his campaign.

I watched and listened carefully to his electrifying speech to 10,000 adoring
supporters in Madison the other day, where HE DID NOT EVEN MENTION HILLARY'S
NAME, much less attack or criticize her.

That got my attention, and my respect for Bernie grew even greater, as I
realized that Bernie's not even running against Hillary, he's running against Wall St.,
the MIC, Big Pharma, Big Oil, et. al. and he's running on the issues, not to gin up
hostility towards other Democrats.

I think this is why Bernie has long resisted being "part of the problem" in Wash DC.


This is nearly unheard of in American politics, to refuse to sling mud at "opponents",
while staying focused on the issues facing America; but that's exactly what Bernie
has done, and I believe will continue to do, throughout his 2016 campaigns.

Bernie is actually "schooling America" on how to run a respectful yet successful
campaign for public office. It does NOT help Bernie's campaign to ignore Bernie's
own good example on this point, not one whit. So please stop doing that.

[wendylaroux]

1. Good idea

does no good.imho

[99th_Monkey]

4. Time will tell. -nt-

[Kalidurga]

2. I have seen far more complaints about what the other side is doing...

This goes for supporters on both sides, than I have seen actual attacks. Typically someone will scream foul when actual quotes and/or policy decisions are discussed.

[99th_Monkey]

9. It may go for both sides, but not necessarily

What Bernie's doing is unilateral and not conditioned on whether "the other side"
attacks him or not. That is the high road, but I frankly don't expect Clinton to
take that route if/when the chips are down in the final 1-2 months of Primary.

[Kalidurga]

11. Yes of course

and I am not going to excuse actual attacks. I have seen and hidden actual attacks on candidates and the people here that support them. And I will not vote to leave a comment if it's alerted on because it's someone supposedly supporting the same candidate I do. Nor will I judge supporters of other candidates more harshly. I always flip the script to make sure I would or wouldn't be offended if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak. No one should be attacking any Democratic candidate, just put the facts out there and see where the chips fall.

[99th_Monkey]

12. Well said. So we can agree to agree. nt

[Kalidurga]

13. Yes

sometimes it takes me a while to get to a point. But, eventually I get there.

[HassleCat]

3. Excellent point

It's OK to point out that Sanders does not accept super pac money, and Clinton does. But let's leave out the gratuitous insults. There is a pretty fair chance we'll have to retract some of those comments later on.

[99th_Monkey]

6. It can be a fine line

since candidates have position on issues, discussing issues might include pointing out
where the "other" candidate stands on those issues, but not necessarily.

Anyway, I think the point of your post is well taken.

[djean111]

5. I never met anyone who registered as Independent because of mud-slinging.

They registered as Independent because neither party represented them.

[daleanime]

7. +1

[99th_Monkey]

8. So you think that cartoon was just pulled out of thin air?

that it represents no one?

I seriously doubt that, and I DO know a BUNCH of people who are disaffected
politically due to how "dirty" campaigning gets, all the nasty ads, the lies &
distortions, etc.

One of those is one of my sons, who veered off from a career in politics to go
into the music industry, precisely because of the dirt factor; and at the time,
I couldn't say I blamed him much.

But now there's a change to change the game on this. Bernie's at the forefront
of that effort. Are we with him, or against him on this?

Me, I'm with him.

[djean111]

10. These OPs always seem to be aimed at Bernie's supporters, while HRC supporters merrily jeer away at

us. And the gist seems to be that hey, Hillary is gonna win anyway, why not just give up now or else just toss softballs.
That's is not a foregone conclusion, and this is primary season. Hillary's campaign got pretty down and dirty against Obama, IIRC, and, anyway, your cartoon does not depict primary season, just general elections and the usual GOP-Dem bashing that goes on in Congress all the time. I have seen distasteful jabs against Hillary here, but for the most part I see jabs at policy positions and push-back to all the Bernie can't win, give up NOW stuff. At least every thread is no longer gifted with a list of polls and a weird little chart purporting to prove that HRC is TOO a progressive.

Music industry - I once read that the music industry is as down and dirty as it gets. As is any industry where big bucks are at stake. Maybe it was Rosie Perez, I think, who said that in the music industry they don't even bother stabbing you in the back, the front will do just fine.

My grandson registered as an independent here in Florida because he doesn't feel either party represents him. He is changing to Democrat so he can vote for Bernie in the primary.

[99th_Monkey]

15. My son got lucky

so his good work is paying off, at least so far. He works for CD Baby, that helps
emerging musicians get started with premier CD releases, at a very affordable
price. The company was Dutch-owned, with an awesome attitude towards
workers and artists. My son's been able to leverage that to start his own record
(retro vinyl) company, and he DJs around down, etc. He's delighted with his
experience so far.

That said, I have heard how dirty that industry CAN be, so that's why I say "lucky".

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. No, I think the cartoonist feels that's why people leave parties.

And maybe some tiny fraction do.

Nobody I've ever met who left either party did it because of mudslinging, though.

I think the cartoonist is off base.

More power to Bernie, though.

[99th_Monkey]

17. The toon is about the General and not Primary election

so maybe not totally germane to the OP.

I hear this all the time though: "politics is dirty" "They're all the same" blah blah .. as
reasons why they are registered Independent, not D or R.

It's almost a cliche, so much that toons like this one get printed. I can't explain how
you've managed to not meet any of these disaffected folks.

Yes. Go Bernie!!!!!!!!!!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

18. I've met plenty of disaffected folks.

Most of them just don't care about the fighting or negativity, they care about real world problems, about politicians not doing things that need done, or doing things that actively make their lives suck worse. They have low opinions of most politicians, so it's understandable that politicians have low opinions of each other.

[jeepers]

34. You get down to the mudslinging part of it

and there will be nothing else worth learning. Might as well go home

[99th_Monkey]

36. Exactly! Thank you. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

16. Would this be considered an attack?

If Bernie Sanders had said this, don't you think we would have to discuss it? Why shouldn't Hillary answer the same way?

No person is illegal.

[A Simple Game]

21. There you go, a perfect example of how to comply with the OP's request.

Don't run down Hillary, let her do it to herself with her own words.

[99th_Monkey]

28. Maybe my OP was naive

It wouldn't be the first time, and probably not the last, that I
"come across" that way.

I've always been a dreamer, a dreamer of a place I've never been,
a society where love & respect is loved and respected, an inclusive
welcoming vibe to all things civic and political, where civic ideas are
discussed with relish, freely and openly, no matter how "unheard of"
seemingly new ideas appear to be.

In this mythical probably non-existent nation, public employees are
truly public servants, they take the term seriously. do what they say,
and say what they do. Yes, even the cops do this.

I live in Portland(ia) Oregon, and yes it is a relative progressive bubble,
yet it pales in comparison to my mythical utopian dream, so I dream on,
and carry on, and make do.

Then along comes this guy Bernie Sanders. OMG! He's seen this
place too, and has been fighting -- as I have with him since the 60s --
to transform this 'democratic experiment' called the USA into a better
place, a more wholesome political environment where everyone counts,
except for a greedy few who are now "taking it all" if no-one stands
in the breach and stops it in it's tracks.

Like I said in OP, Bernie is running against the REAL enemy, not phantom
boogie-men conjured up by M$M to confuse, obfuscate, and distort our political
realities.

Bernie is putting EVERYTHING on the fucking line, just in the nick of time, to
maybe turn this slow-motion disaster around, for the people, not The 1%.

Who the fuck am I to NOT support and respect this man 110%.

All the above impresses me so deeply and profoundly that I'm willing to appear
'the fool' or naive on occasion, if that's what it takes, to help keep Bernie's courageous
run for POTUS true to it's authentic moorings, and not to be sabotaged by well-
intentioned supporters running amuck attacking other candidates willy-nilly, instead
of keeping the focus where it belongs: Wall St., the MIC, Big Pharma, Big Oil, et. al.

Thank you for listening.

[riversedge]

32. The RNC is using that quote now lso.

2003 was a long time ago.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/07/rnc-flashback-hillary-clinton-adamantly-against-illegal-immigrants/

[Scuba]

42. So you must have been OK with Mitt only releasing one year of tax returns. No doubt he evolved ...

... since the previous years when he paid little or nothing and what he paid in the most recent year reflected his true values on taxes.

[riversedge]

46. Sorry Scuba --but what does your

have to do with my post? In solidarity always.

[Scuba]

47. If Hillary's bad judgement was long ago and therefore not relevant isn't that true of Mitt's taxes?

[riversedge]

48. Thanks. got it now. I would rather look to the

future for the Democrats. Digging up old garbage in not good for us. We have enough Republicans doing that.

[Scuba]

54. It would be good if Democrats selected the candidate with the least skeletons in his/her closet.

Can't wait for the GE to do that; the primaries exist for a reason.

[nxylas]

19. Bernie knows who the real enemy is

The Republicans would *love* a knock-down drag-out primary fight. It would draw attention away from their own "Hunger Games" primary. Stick to debating the issues.

[A Simple Game]

22. Yes Bernie knows who the enemy is, tells us so, and it isn't Hillary.

But the question is how do you defeat the enemy, and would Hillary even try?

[historylovr]

20. I have no problem with this stance.

As long as everyone's supporters are taking that attitude, it's all good.

[99th_Monkey]

39. So you're half way there

Bernie is all the way there, his stance is not provisional, or conditional,
it's a unilateral and unconditional refusal to stoop into the putrid mire US
political campaigning has become.

So as Bernie supporters, I'm wanting us to go all the way WITH Bernie,
as he kinda knows his shit, and I trust him on that.

[RoccoR5955]

23. Can you please educate me.

I have been told that Bernie supporters are "attacking Mrs. Clinton." Most of the time I see that they are disagreeing on specific issues. Since when is discussing a fundamental difference in opinion about a specific issue an attack?
I just don't understand.
If you could give me an example or two, I might understand better. I have asked supporters of Mrs. Clinton to do so, but they just come back with rhetoric, or fail to answer me. Can you?
Thanks in advance. Happy 4th.

[nxylas]

25. I'd have to dig for specific examples

But all too often, posts about Bernie seem to go something like this:

"Bernie gave a great speech today. He clearly spoke to people's concerns about economic injustice, and I think he'd make a great president. UNLIKE HILLARY, WHO'S A TOTAL CORPORATE SELL-OUT!" The last bit is unnecessary, and you could omit it without altering the substance of the post.

[RoccoR5955]

26. Sorry,

But I have not seen posts claiming that Mrs. Clinton is a "corporate sell-out."
I HAVE seen many posts stating that Sanders cannot win, because he's too far behind, or too liberal, or some such thing though.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. Precious.

[smokey nj]

43. What's precious is you posting in this group.

[StevenOBX]

24. In all due respect

I think it was HRC that first sent out the attack dogs.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. NO, because why would she acknowledge him? She is front runner.

[frylock]

37. Why, indeed? Unless their internal polling shows something of concern..

which I think it does.

[smokey nj]

44. Ask Luis Gutierrez and Claire McCaskill

[99th_Monkey]

33. Bernie's refusal to get sucked into shit-storms of mutual attacks

is brilliant and needs to be respected.

He is NOT doing this 'provisionally' he's doing it
unilaterally.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Great post. Real Sanders supporters need to accept that both could be on the same ticket

next year, and therefore they need to play nice.

[smokey nj]

49. Take your own advice.

[virtualobserver]

52. on the same side, for sure.....on the same ticket?

don't think so, no matter who wins.

[McCamy Taylor]

31. BTW, if this thread does not make it to greatest, it should tell us that something is rotten in the

state of DU-Mark. So, I'll be checking back.

[99th_Monkey]

35. Well then, if that's true, I hope YOU rec-ed it.

I'll be checking back.

[frylock]

38. LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!

[RoccoR5955]

40. Does Mrs Clinton need a loan?

I am sure that there are many banks that would give her one.
Why should I leave her a loan?

[99th_Monkey]

41. Hillary, dare I say, is almost irrelevant

She may indeed pull this off, and become the next POTUS,
but in only terms of who Bernie's running against.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. I really, really agree with this ...

I posted long ago (during the 2008 primaries and the 2012 primaries and before the start of this primary season) that my fantasy would be for the Democratic Candidates' campaigns without even mentioning their Democratic competitor ... they have too many republican position/policy points to attack, and distinguish themselves from one another.

Go Democrats 2016 and beyond!

[smokey nj]

50. Funny how Hillary supporters never get lectured about their behavior.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. Funny how you missed the entire point of the OP ...

BTW ... I am not a HRC supporter. I am, however, a supporter of Democrats.

[smokey nj]

57. I didn't miss the point of anything.

This is a group for supporters of Bernie Sanders.

[PatrickforO]

51. Nice post. Live and let live (except banks that are 'too big to fail')

[SoapBox]

53. Is it bashing, if it's fact?

Just curious...

[orpupilofnature57]

55. I've been guilty and am going to stop, yesterday I volunteered to call and hand out flayers, no more

arguing with people I agree with on almost everything else .

[Autumn]

58. This does not meet the SOP for this group so I am going to lock this.

You may want to post this is GDP. If you wish you may contact me and I will unlock it so you can delete your OP.