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Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:36 AM

 

"I do think PoC are are after-thought for Bernie ...

and definitely, for Bernie supporters here on DU"

I read this today on DU. It seems to be what passes for greatness here these days, but I think it's much the opposite.

But, FWIW, here's what we're up against.

42 replies, 5074 views

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Reply "I do think PoC are are after-thought for Bernie ... (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 OP
Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #1
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #3
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #2
Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #4
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #6
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #18
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #5
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #7
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #8
Snotcicles Jul 2015 #39
JackInGreen Jul 2015 #9
delrem Jul 2015 #10
cui bono Jul 2015 #11
MisterP Jul 2015 #38
Enthusiast Jul 2015 #41
Skittles Jul 2015 #12
merrily Jul 2015 #13
djean111 Jul 2015 #19
nikto Jul 2015 #14
BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #15
djean111 Jul 2015 #20
merrily Jul 2015 #24
azmom Jul 2015 #35
kenfrequed Jul 2015 #36
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #16
merrily Jul 2015 #25
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #26
merrily Jul 2015 #27
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #29
merrily Jul 2015 #30
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #33
merrily Jul 2015 #34
wilsonbooks Jul 2015 #17
merrily Jul 2015 #31
Triana Jul 2015 #21
merrily Jul 2015 #32
nc4bo Jul 2015 #37
Enthusiast Jul 2015 #42
jeff47 Jul 2015 #22
merrily Jul 2015 #28
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #23
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #40

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:41 AM

1. Made out of whole cloth. Lovely.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:44 AM

3. Well, facts aren't on their side.

 

Lies is all they got.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:44 AM

2. He may not be addressing issues

That matter to people of color. I cant speak to that. But the people that keep pushing that here have no interest in him doing so. They see an opening they plan to exploit and will continue to run with it regardless of what issues he's talking about and who he's addressing.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:46 AM

4. Bernie talks with Sharpton. Sharpton highlights his civil rights credentials both old and new.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:56 AM

6. yeah

That's not going to matter to the people here who are pushing the "Bernie ' s not addressing the issues of people of color" message though. They've found their narrative and will continue to push it even if he highlights the (very real) problems of institutional racism for the rest of his campaign. It's a disingenuous attempt to discredit him and probably should no longer be engaged when seen here.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 05:51 AM

18. What people do here doesn't matter.

What matters is what he does out there, working with people of colour onstaff to come up with framing and messaging that takes his underlying ideas and presents them in a way that lets PoC know that they aren't "just an afterthought to him", but that he is indeed still fighting strongly to help them as he has for decades.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:49 AM

5. The Clinton campaign would like to inoculate black and hispanic voters against Bernie-mania

 

Bernie's support so far is largely white. Some people seem determined to make sure it stays that way.

The Clinton campaign would like to inoculate black and hispanic voters against Bernie-mania by spreading the meme that Bernie just doesn't "get" people of color. He doesn't understand our issues or something like that.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:58 AM

7. That's exactly what's going on.

They don't want Bernie to start addressing the issue of institutional racism...and when he does ( and he will) they'll just accuse him of political opportunism.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:05 AM

8. Right, and too they are trying to create enough bad feelings toward him now so

 

that people of color won't even pay attention to what he has to say on any issues, including systemic racism issues and also Bernie's more well known issues like jobs, wages, social security, etc. Just paint him as vaguely bad on race so people of color will just tune him out.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:56 PM

39. Thats why time is on Bernie's side. They will get a glimps of the sun soon. nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:18 AM

9. It's a bit startling

At the least. We always turn on eachother so viciously come primary time.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 02:00 AM

10. It's classical Third-Way.

Create an artificial division between "economic/foreign-policy issues" and "social issues", first dismissing the importance of economic/foreign-policy issues, then claiming to be the only true voice of leadership on "social issues", the only issues that matter.

That's the core message of Third-Way politics at the GOTV level. The fundraising and political $ payoff level is another thing entirely, and that level is verboten.

Third-Way are also self-described "moderates" and "centrists", meaning that they're "bi-partisan" on an economic/foreign-policy level, which establishes an identity at that level so the only differences allowed to be debated in the USA, on their model, are w.r.t. "social issues".

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Response to delrem (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 02:19 AM

11. I agree completely.

And it justifies them backing a corporate candidate.

What is sickening is that they are arguing that economic justice don't really matter even though people are dying from lack of funds for food, heating or a/c. They are so concerned that Oprah is getting accosted in a posh store yet do not seem to care that their choice of ignoring economic issues leaves people to die for lack of money. I have yet to get a good answer to why we can't fight for all people and all causes. Why do we have to pick one or the other? Ignoring either one leads to deaths one way or another. Who are they to choose something like that?

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Response to delrem (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:25 PM

38. which is funny because you NEVER see the 3wayers in the frontlines for social issues, either

Last edited Tue Sep 8, 2015, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)

has Emanuel been splendiferous for gays and ethnicities in Chicago?; by their own logic Harold Ford, as the most economically conservative, should be a regular MLK for social issues ...

at best they build up a somewhat social-friendly record (just to point at it when critics point out they're corpo stooges), or cozy up with hilariously-wealthy donors who're also gay/Jewish

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Response to delrem (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:02 AM

41. +1 an entire shit load.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 02:44 AM

13. This election is about things that are so much bigger than DU.

As far as minorities and women in general, not only DU, I am reminded of divisive dog whistles of the kind I heard in 2008.

I don't see that as respectful of any minority but rather as seeing minorities as a means to a personal end. However, while that is how I see it, and I will put together what I consider to be relevant facts, it's not for me to decide for anyone else. NOR CAN I.

I very much doubt anyone on DU is going to change his or her candidate, but I think a lot of people in real life need to learn more about Bernie.

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Response to merrily (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 06:49 AM

19. PRECISELY THIS - "I don't see that as respectful of any minority but rather as seeing minorities as

 

a means to a personal end."

And expressing outrage and personal disappointment over perceived shortcomings of Bernie's is one thing, but expressing that outrage and disappointment over and over because everyone does not agree is quite another. Equating not agreeing with someone to dismissing them is ridiculous. This is not a place where one should expect everyone to fall in line. All the rants, sneers, and ten cent psychoanalysis won't change that.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 03:07 AM

14. OMG ...

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 03:59 AM

15. This post is not helping

We need to stop the us vs them thing. It infects every single article about Sanders that is posted in GDP and it is getting ugly. How about we give it a rest and let people say whatever they want to. I don't agree with the statement and I think the whole thing has gotten out of hand, but stoking these fires is just unnecessary.

I don't normally ask this, but your posts get a lot of attention. And this one is not needed. In a thread, ok, have your say, but to make an OP about it just gets everyone's hackles up. Is there a way you might feel that in the spirit of a truce it might be worth self-deleting?

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 06:52 AM

20. We are talking about campaign smears. I have seen HRC supporters refer to Bernie's supporters

 

as cockroaches. Yesterday. And, really, we don't get to "let" people say whatever they want to. They already do. We are just reacting to what they are saying.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:40 AM

24. Cockroaches? Well, isn't that special? nt

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:18 AM

35. I agree BrotherIvan. What needed to be said has been

Said by both parties. It's time to let go and move on.

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:42 AM

36. Completely agree

There are about three or four Hillary people that post things on a daily basis that I wish people would just let sink or not respond to at all. They are all optics, spin, and meta conversations that do not address serious issues..

The next time you see one of these just look up a policy or bill that Bernie has put forth and create your own thread around it instead. Stop responding to crap.

Not directed at you Ivan... Obviously.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 04:16 AM

16. They haven't even begun to take the Big Guns out yet

and if he gets past then, they'll pull out the nukes. These are nasty, organized, win-at-any-cost (see Bill Clinton's sell-out of the ENTIRE Middle Class in order to get cozy with the 001% in order to be president) people. They're just sending out the softball surrogates now but it's going to get uglier. WAY uglier and the MSM will be there to "help" just as they did with the Dean Scream and playing it on a loop 24/7 for days on end. In fact, that should be the mantra at this point: "Remember what they did to Howard Dean."

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:42 AM

25. Funny you should say that. The mantra on MSNBC lately has been "Dean got big

crowds, too. And he was also from Vermont. And look how that turned out. Hillary will be the nominee."

Or words to that effect.

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Response to merrily (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:46 AM

26. These people have their heads so far up the beltway ass

they don't have a clue what's going on in the Real World. Besides, their jobs depend on advocating for the status quo.

Comparing Dean to Sanders by saying they're both from Vermont is like saying "W" and Molly Ivins are exactly the same because they're both from Texas. Fail from all angles.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:53 AM

27. I don't see it that way. MSNBC is doing the beltway's bidding and they both

know what is going on in the real world. First, they pretended Bernie did not exist, then that he did not have a shot in hell, and now that, while he's making a big splash for the nonce, he'll flame out any second.

They do see he's been drawing crowds in the real world, so they've been repeating on every show that the crowds he's been drawing mean nothing as far as the nomination goes. This is not, on the part of MSNBC, intended as mere reportage, but as propaganda, directed toward a specific result. They are not striving for accuracy, but for a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Thing is, MSNBC influences a lot of what is going on in the real world.

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Response to merrily (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:57 AM

29. I lump them in

with CNN. But then again, I haven't had TV service in years so I can't say I speak from absolute authority.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:59 AM

30. I don't think Democrats look at CNN as telling them the truth about politics.

Many do look at MSNBC that way.

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Response to merrily (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:02 AM

33. Well, that expalins it, then.

I'm not a Democrat.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:04 AM

34. OK, the left then. Nothing on TV* is more left than MSNBC--and it's pure establishment.

However, many viewers don't get the last bit, but see it as giving them the real skinny.


*mainstream TV. Democracy Now is a skoosh more left, but you may or may not find it on your local access station.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 05:24 AM

17. Swiftboating part 2

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Response to wilsonbooks (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:00 AM

31. Part 3, at the very least. "Obama was born in Kenya and is possibly Muslim" was Part 2

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 07:35 AM

21. Meme machine says "Bernie Sanders does not represent PoC". Meme machine is WRONG. Here's Why:

 

The truth is quite the contrary. PoC are part of and will benefit from nearly EVERY policy idea and ideal that Sanders speaks of and is pushing, particularly the economic ones. PoC have ALWAYS been part of all demographics Sanders has fought for - ever since he was 20 years old in the 1960s he fought for civil rights and he's STILL fighting for civil rights. It's part of who he IS and ALWAYS has been.

Can Hillary say that? Well. NO. In the 1960s Ms. Clinton was working for Barry Goldwater.

This assertion that Sanders "only represents whites" does not hold water for me. AT. ALL. Here are some reasons why:

The proposed solutions to the issues Sanders talks about would benefit African Americans as well ie: income inequality, constraining Wall St excess, campaign finance reform, voting rights, fair wages, climate change, etc. Those issues are all-inclusive - not black or white issues. That Sanders marched with MLK for civil rights back in his 20s certainly should not be ignored by anyone - political pundits or African Americans and certainly not the Clinton campaign.

He was active in the civil rights movement. Sanders was an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and participated in the historic March on Washington in 1963 as a 22-year-old student at the University of Chicago. "It was a question for me of just basic justice — the fact that it was not acceptable in America at that point that you had large numbers of African-Americans who couldn't vote, who couldn't eat in a restaurant, whose kids were going to segregated schools, who couldn't get hotel accommodations living in segregated housing," he told the Burlington Free Press. "That was clearly a major American injustice and something that had to be dealt with."

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/29/399818581/5-things-you-should-know-about-bernie-sanders

It appears to me that perhaps some pundits and supporters of Clinton are hoping they can make this non-issue into one -- and to do so based on little but the assertion itself nevermind facts or Sanders' history.

Perhaps they're hoping to create Sanders' achilles heel - use his alleged non-support of African American issues or alleged lack of support from African Americans as a battering ram to fend off Sanders' obvious momentum. IOW, they perhaps seek to use this type of propaganda to CREATE the illusion of such lack of support. This would certainly curtail any progress Sanders might make with AA voters.

Very interesting.

I don't hear of Ms. Clinton talking about this stuff much today. And she certainly did not do so 50 years ago, either. I do hear it from Sanders. . .both then and now. He's been quite consistent about it. I don't know what Hillary Clinton has done for African Americans lately. But I know Bernie Sanders has been consistently working on their behalf for 50 years. Please explain how the following from Bernie Sanders translates to "afterthought" or "doesn't represent"



Sanders: "Civil rights was a very important part of it. I was very active in the Congress of Racial Equality at the University of Chicago. I got arrested in trying to desegregate Chicago’s school system. I was very active in demanding that the University of Chicago not run segregated housing, which it was doing at that time. We were active in working with our brothers and sisters in SNCC … at that point helping them with some very modest financial help. So, yes, I was active. And I do not separate the civil-rights issue from the fact that 50 percent of African-American young people are either unemployed or underemployed. Remember the March on Washington—what was it about? “Jobs and Freedom.” The issue that Dr. King raised all the time was: This is great if we want to desegregate restaurants or hotels, but what does it matter if people can’t afford to go to them? That’s still the issue today."

I do not separate the civil-rights issue from the fact that 50 percent of African-American young people are unemployed or underemployed.” -Bernie Sanders

So all this makes me think that this assessment of Sanders as "not representing African Americans" is really just incorrect - willfully so, and being done to turn AA folks away from Sanders for no damn good reason at all -- and against their own best interests, most likely (because IMO Sanders will be more likely to fight for them as President than Hillary will)

LINK:

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-speaks/



https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/618164350537363456

"What's he done for me lately"?, one of our DU AA members recently asked. Well...this is willful ignorance, IMO. They've bought into the factless meme.

They claim Sanders does not call out African Americans specifically when speaking of his policies and ideas. Oh but he DOES. See examples above. I've heard him do so more than ANY OTHER politician in the race!

And even if he did not, the fact is that with Sanders is his policies, ideas and proposed solutions would benefit EVERYONE, including African Americans. Maybe sometimes he sees no need therefore to separate them into a different demographic when speaking.

But he DOES do that, he HAS done that, and considering his LONG and consistent history fighting for equal and civil rights (which Hillary and NO other politician running for 2016 even HAS), there can really be no reasonable, fact-driven claim that Sanders "doesn't represent PoC" or that "PoC are an afterthought to Sanders"

PoC are NOT an "afterthought" to Sanders. His fight for them is PART OF WHO HE IS and has been for FIFTY YEARS, unlike Hillary and certainly anyone else in the running.

No. I don't think so. You can't get away with that false meme. It might fly if enough people don't bother looking at the FACTS - and particularly the FACTS about Sanders and his fight for African Americans as compared to other 2016 candidates. Sanders has done MORE for African Americans than any other 2016 candidates and he's been fighting for them all his life.

I'm not buying the bullshit. Our wise AA brothers and sisters won't either. They'll know better.

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Response to Triana (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:01 AM

32. Thank you.

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Response to Triana (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:25 PM

37. I wanted to add my thanks also. nt

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Response to Triana (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:08 AM

42. Thank you, Triana.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:16 AM

22. Clinton lost 2008, and part of the post-lost analysis blamed it on POC.

She's determined to win the 2008 primary this time.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:55 AM

28. Can't say what I want.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:36 AM

23. It's a talking point, that's all. Keep on climbing and kick those very expensive talking points

out of the way. They are not going to work because of Bernie's record.


WE should not feed them. Each time we go into a thread that is using these talking points, they are being fed.

On Social Media they are not getting any traction at all. And that's the way it should be.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2015, 07:12 PM

40. What would happen to her majesty's campaign if issues were discussed honestly?

 



They have three talking points

1. Hillary is leading the polls
2. Bernie's a racist (the fact that he's been consistent for 50 years is a negative to them)
3. Bernie's a gun nut

Pretty sick

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