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Dustlawyer

(10,513 posts)
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:48 PM Jul 2015

Just got axed from the $HRC$ group for posting a sarcastic comment.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by TM99 (a host of the Bernie Sanders group).

I admit it was sarcastic, but I was making a point. I did not make a personal attack on anyone there, but I felt I had to do it. You see, they were all trying to justify all of the money she has raised with all of the expected arguements. "It's UNFORTUNATE that it takes a lot of money from campaign donations and Super Pacs, but..." or "it's naive to think of running for POTUS without taking corporate money because, you know, the clown car Republicans all have their own billionaires..."

"Unfortunate" "the others are doing it," please! I had to point out that Hillary with her name recognition would do fine on what Bernie is raising. She could still pick and choose her interviews that she gives, getting free publicity anytime she wanted. She didn't need corporate money to win, but she wanted it! They act like our campaign system is dirty, but what can we do?

Positive change doesn't just happen, you have to take some risk. Do they think the Founding Fathers said, "Hey, this thing with England sucks, but what can we do?" Hillary is a creature of our corrupt political system. She knows all of the wealthiest people in the world. She knows that she has to give a Quid Pro Quo for the money she is collecting, and it will be at OUR EXPENSE! That right there should be enough to tell you that she doesn't really give a shit about us!

I also have a problem with these groups, the HRC group, Bernie group... Do we really want an area where like minded people only can discuss what they already agree on? I am a Bernie supporter 100%, and I do like to hear from other like minded people, however, I am not adverse to someone else making an arguement about something I may not agree on. Example, some have a problem with Bernie's stance towards guns. I would not get upset at some HRC supporter making this arguement if that's what they did. I may learn something I didn't know before. I do mind snark and personal attacks, just not arguments on the merits. To be honest, sarcasm may have crossed the line anyway, but it was the best way that I could point out what they were doing, which was making a lot of excuses for Hillary taking more bribe money than anyone else in this election. They were clearly defensive about it, but we're trying to act like everyone does it and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. It's galling when they act like we are powerless to oppose the corruption of campaign bribes when we have someone who IS DOING IT! Bernie would be a lock for POTUS if all Democrats decided that this was the election where we could return to Representative Democracy instead of going deeper into fascism.

Despite being here at DU for several years, the Bernie Group is the first group I have joined. Is it an official rule that you cannot argue against the candidate of a group if done respectfully and limited to an issue? I want to know if my being banned from commenting in the HRC group for violation of the rules, or was it because I struck a nerve?

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just got axed from the $HRC$ group for posting a sarcastic comment. (Original Post) Dustlawyer Jul 2015 OP
So, you were attacking Hillary in the Hill-Hole Demeter Jul 2015 #1
First time that's happened MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #2
Oh it happened to me months ago. At first I was butthurt. silvershadow Jul 2015 #3
Can we watch through the window? n/t SusanaMontana41 Jul 2015 #24
Money in politics is for the first time going to be a huge issue in this campaign. Bernie is sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #4
What we are trying to avoid here TM99 Jul 2015 #5
+1 daleanime Jul 2015 #11
I think groups exist for the purpose of allowing members to support each other and have discussions merrily Jul 2015 #30
It sounds like you and I are in agreement TM99 Jul 2015 #35
You realize that you are a member of a not very exclusive club tularetom Jul 2015 #6
Dustlawyer is in good company - they've (the HRC group) even banned Omaha Steve. kath Jul 2015 #10
Are you saying OS is banned from DU or just HRC group? snagglepuss Jul 2015 #15
From the HRC group. Very sorry I wasn't more clear. kath Jul 2015 #18
They banned Omaha Steve? awoke_in_2003 Jul 2015 #22
it's not unusual... bbgrunt Jul 2015 #7
TOS rpannier Jul 2015 #8
I did it the other way round. SoapBox Jul 2015 #9
I did as well. Sherman A1 Jul 2015 #32
Someone talking about this thread says you're a "dink" progree Jul 2015 #12
That someone sports a Bernie avatar. delrem Jul 2015 #23
If it's anything like the BOG it's a badge of honor. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #13
Gort booted from the bog back in 2013 Scootaloo Jul 2015 #27
I got booted by pointing out that it was hypocritical of Republicans to criticize "Obamacare"... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #28
This was my DIY fix back in april. I've seen much less Discussionist garbage since Scootaloo Jul 2015 #14
I tried using trash forum a week or so ago, and it didn't work for me passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #21
My observation on DU members: Binkie The Clown Jul 2015 #16
Good advice, Binkie. (But your avatar is terrifying.) senz Jul 2015 #19
I posted a sincere message re the evolution of my opinion of Hillary senz Jul 2015 #17
You could have posted the same material--and still can--in GD Primary. merrily Jul 2015 #31
Bravo, JackInGreen Jul 2015 #20
Every group bears this heading: merrily Jul 2015 #25
It helps if you remember Hillary is not the enemy. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #26
I have a concern with this too passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #29
Thanks for your efforts dreamnightwind Jul 2015 #33
This banning, alerting, tattling seems so juvenile to me. democrank Jul 2015 #34
Me, too vt_native Jul 2015 #36
Sorry y'all, this is just getting TM99 Jul 2015 #37
 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
1. So, you were attacking Hillary in the Hill-Hole
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:52 PM
Jul 2015

You have to expect that the most rabid fan girls and boys will be there....

Don't provoke the Jets!

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
2. First time that's happened
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:54 PM
Jul 2015

Odd.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
3. Oh it happened to me months ago. At first I was butthurt.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 12:06 AM
Jul 2015

I only pointed out something in jest. Apparently they don't do even jest in the HRC group. They must be in full-panic mode.

SusanaMontana41

(3,233 posts)
24. Can we watch through the window? n/t
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:24 AM
Jul 2015

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
4. Money in politics is for the first time going to be a huge issue in this campaign. Bernie is
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 12:10 AM
Jul 2015

exposing the lie that you cannot run an effective campaign without taking billions in bribes from Wall St and other Special interests, like the Kochs eg.

Until he ran, they were all comfortable, in fact they were boasting about how much they were getting, as if was a badge of honor.

Bernie's presence in this race is making the Comfortable, very Uncomfortable, and despite all the negative predictions two months ago that he would have faded away by now, they cannot believe that not only is he still going strong, increasing in the polls as more and more people get to know him, but it looks like he has become a serious threat to the status quo.

So you touched on a very sensitive and indefensible issue when you went there. Better to do that in the Dem Primary Forum.

They can't defend it, so they would rather not talk about it, or try to excuse it.

But they will not be able to do that because it is going to be a major issue for the first time in a Presidential Election.

I see now that a few candidates who are running for Congress are emulating Bernie and refusing Corporate money also.

This could become an epidemic, it could threaten Citizens United which they worked so hard and spent so much money getting passed.

Bernie is a true LEADER. He is showing others the way to NOT BE Beholden to Corporations.

And ALL Dem Candidates should do so and them use it against the Koch funded Republicans.

But sadly I think they like it the way it is.

The problem for them is that WE don't like it. And now we have a choice of someone who doesn't like it either.

To answer your question, no, on partisan forums like this you can't have a reasonable discussion about issues so it's best to go other media if you want to do that.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
5. What we are trying to avoid here
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 12:13 AM
Jul 2015

is the constant meta that will arise during a primary season on DU.

As a host, I don't block members gratuitously. I am all for debate on issues. It is rather easy to tell who wants to discuss and debate an issue, and who is a Clinton supporter on a smear attack or trolling a safe haven.

I have no problems discussing money in politics today. You got banned from the Clinton Group because sarcasm will come across as trolling a safe haven. Why didn't you bring up the issue in GD-P instead?

This post veers into the meta category as it is. You are discussing another group and being banned from there. Why not just start a thread here in order to discuss money in politics today? We can compare and contrast the various candidates with a focus on what Sanders is specifically doing to halt it.

Can you see where we are coming from a little better?

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
11. +1
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:54 AM
Jul 2015

merrily

(45,251 posts)
30. I think groups exist for the purpose of allowing members to support each other and have discussions
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:53 AM
Jul 2015

that go forward with the necessity of debating issues contrary to the purpose of the group, even polite debate. I think debate is what other parts of the board are for. We are not supposed to be rude on any part of the board, though I grant that has been disintegrating.

For example, IMO, any poster who does not want Bernie Sanders to win the primary should not be posting in this group and no one who opposed Hillary's winning in the primary should be posting in the Hillary Broup. In addition to being contrary to the purpose of the group and disruptive of discussion without any real other real purpose besides disruption, aka trolling the group.

I will grant that my opinion about this seems to be a minority one in this group, but I think it's very muchin line with why groups were created on this board.

This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose, click here.



 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
35. It sounds like you and I are in agreement
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 05:52 AM
Jul 2015

here on this.

Though for example, I do think that two Sanders supporters could discuss his stance on a position like gun control which may end up being a bit of a debate without it devolving into trollish, inflammatory rhetoric.

But otherwise spot on for me.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
6. You realize that you are a member of a not very exclusive club
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 12:15 AM
Jul 2015

My only question is what took you so long?

kath

(10,565 posts)
10. Dustlawyer is in good company - they've (the HRC group) even banned Omaha Steve.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:50 AM
Jul 2015

And they locked a thread of his under really ridiculous circumstances.
This banning of OS is just utterly unconscionable. I am near tears thinking about it.

(i hate Meta, and know it's not supposed to be posted here, but I am just beside myself here and didn't know if others were aware. Horrible. I can hardly believe it. )

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
15. Are you saying OS is banned from DU or just HRC group?
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:07 AM
Jul 2015

kath

(10,565 posts)
18. From the HRC group. Very sorry I wasn't more clear.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:32 AM
Jul 2015

I just edited my post above in order to clarify.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
22. They banned Omaha Steve?
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:16 AM
Jul 2015

I guess I will make sure to avoid that group

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
7. it's not unusual...
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 12:16 AM
Jul 2015

rpannier

(24,528 posts)
8. TOS
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:16 AM
Jul 2015

Terms of Service
If you violate it you get kicked out

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
9. I did it the other way round.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:40 AM
Jul 2015

I trashed them...I never posted but it was nasty and mean in there...and their list of banned posters is LONG!

If you are not a Zombie for The Annointed One, you get attacked.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
32. I did as well.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:58 AM
Jul 2015

it's easy and cleans up the newsfeed rather nicely. I may add a few other groups and forums to the list as well along the way.

progree

(11,463 posts)
12. Someone talking about this thread says you're a "dink"
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:56 AM
Jul 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110712251#post5

on note: I went to the link and wrote a quick thing about TOS
It won't do any good, but maybe cuz I have a Bernie icon the dink might think a little bit more because it doesn't come from an HRC supporter
But I doubt it

delrem

(9,688 posts)
23. That someone sports a Bernie avatar.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:23 AM
Jul 2015

"maybe cuz I have a Bernie icon the dink might think a little bit more because it doesn't come from an HRC supporter"

Which is a bit of a lie if one looks at little things like e.g. recs on this post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110712164

"One thing people don't understand and try to use against Hillary only makes them look like fools.

People are screaming bloody murder that Hillary has set up a campaign that will raise a ton of money. I am not going to dispute that in the least (superpacs? All the better!). It's going to take a ton of money to beat the Republicans and if a candidate ain't got the money, that candidate is NOT going to the White House. Plain and simple.

I am very proud that Hillary has set up a campaign that's in it for the long haul and actually has her eye on the White House. I don't want a damn candidate that thinks he/she can do it without the money, that's just plain ignorant.

...

GO TEAM HILLARY! "

________________

I've noticed several anomalies w.r.t. DUers who sport a Bernie avatar or logo, who trash Bernie's supporters, who praise HRC - as in this case, showing gung ho support for the essence ($$$) of HRC's campaign.

I'm not the only one who's noticed this. I wonder whether infiltration -> sabotage will increasingly be a concerted campaign tactic?

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
13. If it's anything like the BOG it's a badge of honor.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:59 AM
Jul 2015
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
27. Gort booted from the bog back in 2013
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:41 AM
Jul 2015

You know, back when Obama was wanting to take military action against Syria, and Kerry was stomping around Europe talking about "Munich moments."

One of the posters in the swamplands was arguing that dropping bombs was a humanitarian gesture. Pointing out to this imbecile that needy people can't eat bombs got me banned.

and now the lot of them pretend that it never happened.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
28. I got booted by pointing out that it was hypocritical of Republicans to criticize "Obamacare"...
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:48 AM
Jul 2015

...considering it was Bob Dole's old alternative to "Hillarycare".

THAT was called a "cheap shot".

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
14. This was my DIY fix back in april. I've seen much less Discussionist garbage since
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:05 AM
Jul 2015

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
21. I tried using trash forum a week or so ago, and it didn't work for me
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:12 AM
Jul 2015

do you need to be a paying member for it to work?

I tried both Hide Threads and when that didn't work I tried full trash.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
16. My observation on DU members:
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:28 AM
Jul 2015

The ones that agree with you think you are a fine person and an asset to the group.
The ones that disagree with you think you need to be arrested and charged with high treason and sent to Guantanamo. Or failing that, at the very least you MUST be silenced. (This is usually accomplished with a flood of insulting accusations extrapolated from, but often unjustified by what you actually posted. Things along the lines of "You disagree with me, then you must be a ____ (select from: racist/Republican/misogynist/child molester/Nazi/troll/other).&quot

My solution is to treat DU as largely read-only. I find a lot good information here, and links to articles that are interesting and informative. But posting seldom accomplishes anything except attracting hostile reactions from people who fall into the second of the two aforementioned categories. Sometimes I go months without posting. In fact, at one time, long ago, I went so many years without posting to DU I forgot my username and password and had to create a new one. (A shame too. I had tens of thousands of posts by then.)

The important thing is not expect to change anyone's mind. Speak your piece, and let the outcome take care of itself. A good way to practice that discipline is to post something and then NEVER go back to look at that thread to see how people replied to your post. You said your piece, you don't need to care what anyone else thinks of it. (You may care, but you don't really NEED to care.)

Remember, while you are trying to show somebody the error of their ways, that same person is trying to show YOU the error of YOUR ways. That's how flame wars get started. Life's too short. Shake it off and walk away.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
19. Good advice, Binkie. (But your avatar is terrifying.)
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:35 AM
Jul 2015
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
17. I posted a sincere message re the evolution of my opinion of Hillary
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:32 AM
Jul 2015

to a pro-Hillary thread earlier today, trying to understand their pov while explaining my own, but a while later I got a private message stating that I'm not allowed to comment on that thread anymore. Which is too bad, because I've been thinking it over and have more things to say, some of which they might even agree with.

The thread is: http://www.democraticunderground.com/110711961

At least they didn't delete my comment. I don't think I was rude, sarcastic -- or anything along those lines.

It's a shame.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
31. You could have posted the same material--and still can--in GD Primary.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:58 AM
Jul 2015

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
20. Bravo,
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 02:35 AM
Jul 2015

I swear I cannot remember the last time I saw so much "Why are you posting in X (a Hillary) group?" In response to anything with anything not 100% positive and saccharine to Hill.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
25. Every group bears this heading:
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:39 AM
Jul 2015
This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose, click here.


I never clicked to see the purpose of the Hillary Group because I did not need to read it to know that I didn't belong there, but I assume mocking what Hillary does sarcastically is not any part of the purpose of the group.

Just for clarification, my block from that Group came only because I had clicked on latest threads without noticing the post was in the Hillary Room. At that, the post said only "DU's left is not the far left." When asked to delete, I was in the kitchen peeling some veggies as advance prep for Sunday dinner. By the time I returned, I had been blocked. Posting there deliberately would never have occurred to me.

I agree with you on so many issues, dustlawyer, but I have to part ways with you on this one. However, other members of this group have a looser view than I do.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
26. It helps if you remember Hillary is not the enemy.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:39 AM
Jul 2015

She might be too cozy with the enemy. But, I think that Bernie is helping her to realize that. She talks a lot like Elizabeth Warren these days.

Try to focus more on supporting Bernie. Don't engage with Hillary supporters if you can't say something nice. There is almost always something nice to say. Take advantage of the fact that you can type a message and read it a few times before hitting the enter button so it's a lot easier to avoid the real life foot in mouth disease that I have. There really is a lot of information on Bernie out there you could work on being a Bernie expert that way when someone says Bernie hasn't said how he is paying for his plans, you can gently correct them or not so gently I guess it's your choice. It's still better than being all attacky on Hillary and the people who are rooting for her.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
29. I have a concern with this too
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:50 AM
Jul 2015
"I also have a problem with these groups, the HRC group, Bernie group... Do we really want an area where like minded people only can discuss what they already agree on?"


I can see having a group of like supporters, to help boost moral for that group. But what I don't get, and I am sorry, I've not read enough threads from the Bernie group, so I hope I don't say something wrong here...but everyone can read what we post in these groups. They are included on the home page and unless someone has them hidden, everyone can read them. I find it really alarming that it's OK to insult the opposition team, and I hate even using that term, but that's what it's become, hasn't it? I posted in a Hillary group thread today to thank the members there for not continuing to insult Bernie supporters as the OP of that thread started out. I don't think we should be able to do it any more than they should.

Of course, I was immediately banned from posting in that group...but unfortunately, I can still see their threads and the insults.

One member there was angry that I'd bring it up when so many of the Hillary supporters have been attacked and insulted by Bernie supporters. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, we need to stop doing that too. Even in this group. And we should be open to them posting in our threads as long as they are being respectful and not trying to trash Bernie.

It is not helping the democratic party to have a feud that splits us down the middle.

So right now, each group can continue to insult the other, and then ban them from posting in that group, if they try to comment on it. Is that even fair? I can see not going into that group to bash their candidate...that is an insult in itself. We need to respect their right not to have those kinds of threads in their group. But we all need to stop this rising tide of disrespecting and insulting people who don't believe as we do.

I am sorry I even mentioned it in that thread as it was not taken as I intended...feelings are too raw, and I can understand that, in hind sight. But I was bothered by the "insults" in that thread and didn't know how to address it. It doesn't do us any good to keep building up the us against them wall and disrespecting each other, even if we keep it in our own group. It's not really just our group. Anyone can read it.

Attack the message, not the messenger...why is that so hard to do? Discuss the candidates and their policies and history, rather than being snide and rude and disrespectful when talking about DUers.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
33. Thanks for your efforts
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 04:01 AM
Jul 2015

I always appreciate how hard you rail against the money, that's absolutely the place to focus and you are on top of it.

Of course they banned you, well done.

If you want actual engagement on that issue with people who don't necessarily already agree with you, use General Discussion: Primaries, they will engage you there, perhaps something constructive can happen.

You made a GREAT point when you said:

" It's galling when they act like we are powerless to oppose the corruption of campaign bribes when we have someone who IS DOING IT! Bernie would be a lock for POTUS if all Democrats decided that this was the election where we could return to Representative Democracy instead of going deeper into fascism. "

Keep saying it, I also believe that and most everyone in this group of course agrees. As Bernie gains momentum this message will be an easier sell.

I can't remember having a viable candidate (and I do think Bernie is serious and viable) who is really trying to do it right. It's a very rare opportunity, and one badly needed. Hopefully we can convince more people of this.

democrank

(11,230 posts)
34. This banning, alerting, tattling seems so juvenile to me.
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 05:32 AM
Jul 2015

We should encourage and listen to all points of view. We`ve gone so overboard with the "us" and "them" crap that we`re starting to look a like whites-only lunch counter at Woolworth`s in the 50`s.

If we have differences with certain posters here, we should deal with it directly in a civil manner, not act like tattling siblings when something doesn`t go our way.

vt_native

(484 posts)
36. Me, too
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 06:26 AM
Jul 2015

I think it's lame that the HRC group won't defend HRC, they just ban the critic.

Whatever

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
37. Sorry y'all, this is just getting
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 06:36 AM
Jul 2015

to Meta and doesn't serve a purpose according to our ToS.

I have heard from another host, and it is time to lock this thread.

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