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Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:23 PM

 

If you are willing to hear the BLM grievances

Please.

I cannot be the only Bernie supporter who thinks that Bernie can handle being heckled.

That Bernie is willing and wanting to hear the grievances of BLM and work toward a good end.

My belief is that the protest was about the protest. Not about Bernie or Martin specifically, but about candidates who would fight along side them. Asking "What's her name?" is one way to see if they are connected to a population that is being mowed down by law enforcement and civilians alike and those murderers not being held accountable.

If you go to Yahoo and read any news article about a death of a Black person, the comments alone should make you weep.

We have to get past trying to protect Bernie, he's got himself covered.

We need to get in line a protect our brothers and sisters of color.

Sttttoooooppppp,
I know there are other deaths.....but this is systematized genocide. We can put our efforts here, without taking away from other murder victims. You know if you have more than one child, they are not splitting a finite amount of love.

Please comment if you are listening or ready to listen.

152 replies, 7693 views

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Arrow 152 replies Author Time Post
Reply If you are willing to hear the BLM grievances (Original post)
artislife Jul 2015 OP
onecaliberal Jul 2015 #1
artislife Jul 2015 #2
onecaliberal Jul 2015 #3
MuseRider Jul 2015 #4
Left coast liberal Jul 2015 #5
artislife Jul 2015 #8
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #6
artislife Jul 2015 #10
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #15
Autumn Jul 2015 #88
artislife Jul 2015 #95
Autumn Jul 2015 #97
artislife Jul 2015 #99
Autumn Jul 2015 #106
artislife Jul 2015 #111
JDPriestly Jul 2015 #141
aspirant Jul 2015 #105
artislife Jul 2015 #107
stranger81 Jul 2015 #113
Autumn Jul 2015 #114
artislife Jul 2015 #117
aspirant Jul 2015 #123
artislife Jul 2015 #126
aspirant Jul 2015 #131
artislife Jul 2015 #135
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #144
jwirr Jul 2015 #70
TM99 Jul 2015 #142
artislife Jul 2015 #7
Maedhros Jul 2015 #9
artislife Jul 2015 #11
Maedhros Jul 2015 #14
madfloridian Jul 2015 #12
artislife Jul 2015 #19
madfloridian Jul 2015 #28
artislife Jul 2015 #34
stranger81 Jul 2015 #85
artislife Jul 2015 #86
2banon Jul 2015 #63
historylovr Jul 2015 #89
2banon Jul 2015 #91
historylovr Jul 2015 #93
2banon Jul 2015 #96
artislife Jul 2015 #102
aspirant Jul 2015 #108
artislife Jul 2015 #112
aspirant Jul 2015 #127
artislife Jul 2015 #130
aspirant Jul 2015 #133
madfloridian Jul 2015 #129
Tobin S. Jul 2015 #13
artislife Jul 2015 #21
OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2015 #16
artislife Jul 2015 #22
OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2015 #47
artislife Jul 2015 #48
OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2015 #56
artislife Jul 2015 #57
OffWithTheirHeads Jul 2015 #75
artislife Jul 2015 #77
snagglepuss Jul 2015 #58
artislife Jul 2015 #59
appalachiablue Jul 2015 #74
artislife Jul 2015 #76
aspirant Jul 2015 #78
artislife Jul 2015 #79
aspirant Jul 2015 #82
artislife Jul 2015 #84
aspirant Jul 2015 #87
Kenjie Jul 2015 #33
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #17
artislife Jul 2015 #23
marym625 Jul 2015 #25
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #29
marym625 Jul 2015 #35
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #37
marym625 Jul 2015 #39
artislife Jul 2015 #42
marym625 Jul 2015 #45
artislife Jul 2015 #46
marym625 Jul 2015 #50
artislife Jul 2015 #53
marym625 Jul 2015 #54
madfloridian Jul 2015 #132
Snotcicles Jul 2015 #18
marym625 Jul 2015 #20
artislife Jul 2015 #26
marym625 Jul 2015 #30
artislife Jul 2015 #38
sadoldgirl Jul 2015 #24
artislife Jul 2015 #27
marym625 Jul 2015 #31
think Jul 2015 #32
artislife Jul 2015 #36
MerryBlooms Jul 2015 #40
artislife Jul 2015 #43
TBF Jul 2015 #41
artislife Jul 2015 #44
TBF Jul 2015 #49
Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #62
blm Jul 2015 #51
rbnyc Jul 2015 #52
ybbor Jul 2015 #55
artislife Jul 2015 #61
ybbor Jul 2015 #64
artislife Jul 2015 #65
madfloridian Jul 2015 #71
artislife Jul 2015 #72
madfloridian Jul 2015 #73
aspirant Jul 2015 #80
artislife Jul 2015 #81
aspirant Jul 2015 #83
madfloridian Jul 2015 #137
nenagh Jul 2015 #140
Vattel Jul 2015 #146
madfloridian Jul 2015 #147
Vattel Jul 2015 #148
historylovr Jul 2015 #150
annabanana Jul 2015 #60
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #66
madfloridian Jul 2015 #67
artislife Jul 2015 #69
TM99 Jul 2015 #104
artislife Jul 2015 #119
Autumn Jul 2015 #121
jwirr Jul 2015 #68
Autumn Jul 2015 #90
historylovr Jul 2015 #92
2banon Jul 2015 #98
Autumn Jul 2015 #103
2banon Jul 2015 #109
Autumn Jul 2015 #110
artislife Jul 2015 #115
Autumn Jul 2015 #118
artislife Jul 2015 #122
2banon Jul 2015 #116
artislife Jul 2015 #120
historylovr Jul 2015 #145
vive la commune Jul 2015 #94
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2015 #100
TM99 Jul 2015 #101
artislife Jul 2015 #124
TM99 Jul 2015 #125
artislife Jul 2015 #128
merrily Jul 2015 #134
artislife Jul 2015 #136
still_one Jul 2015 #138
Zorra Jul 2015 #139
otherone Jul 2015 #143
artislife Jul 2015 #149
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #151
LWolf Jul 2015 #152

Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:29 PM

1. Listening.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:31 PM

2. Thank you

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:38 PM

3. We're all on the same team.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:39 PM

4. Been listening.

You are correct.

I too think he will be just fine.

It is hard to see all the glee he is being slammed with. I hope they are ready to back the f off when he comes through this.

I don't even think it is fair to call this heckling. All of us are aware of the fear and anger BLM has and we should be standing behind them helping them to make sure they are heard and assured that something will be done. Respecting their lives.

Listening and learning.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:40 PM

5. I agree! If Bernie needs a fainting couch after BLM protest then he isn't the man we know he is...

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Response to Left coast liberal (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:45 PM

8. That image is priceless!

 

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:44 PM

6. PotatoChip posted excerpts from their 'State of the Black Union' page in another thread.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/state-of-the-black-union/

I believe this is the section he excerpted:

The current state of Black America is anything but just. For Black people in the U.S., the shadow of crisis has not passed.

The median wealth for single White women is $42,600. For Black women, itís $5.001.

The infant mortality rate for Black mothers is more than double that of White mothers, due to factors like poverty, lack of access to health care, and the physiological effects of stress caused by living under structural oppression 2.

22 states have passed new voter restrictions since 2010, disenfranchising as many as 34 million Americans, most of them Black 3.

In cities across the country, profit-driven policies fuel displacement and gentrification, leading to the destruction of entire Black communities 4.

Blacks and Latinos are about 31 percent of the US population, but 60 percent of the prison population 8.

In our country 1 in 3 black men will be incarcerated in his lifetime 5, and Black women are the fastest growing prison population 6.

The life expectancy of a Black trans woman is 35 years. The average income of a Black trans person is less than 10K. Trans people are denied jobs, housing and healthcare just for living in their truths.

It is legal in many jurisdictions to fire LBGT people from employment and deny them access to healthcare and housing.

Since 1976, the United States has executed thirteen times more black defendants with white victims than white defendants with black victims 6.

Black U.S. political prisoners have collectively served over 800 years in prison and have consistently been denied parole despite good behavior and time served.

Increasingly, students in white areas are nourished and taught while Black children are criminalized and judged.

Black neighborhoods lack access to affordable healthy food resulting in disproportionate levels of obesity and other chronic illnesses.

Our schools are designed to funnel our children into prisons. Our police departments have declared war against our community. Black people are exploited, caged, and killed to profit both the state and big business. This is a true State of Emergency. There is no place for apathy in this crisis. The US government has consistently violated the inalienable rights our humanity affords.

We say no more.

We demand an end to all forms of discrimination and the full recognition of our human rights.
We demand an immediate end to police brutality and the murder of Black people and all oppressed people.
We demand full, living wage employment for our people.
We demand decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings and an end to gentrification.
We demand an end to the school to prison pipeline & quality education for all.
We demand freedom from mass incarceration and an end to the prison industrial complex.
We demand a racial justice agenda from the White House that is inclusive of our shared fate as Black men, women, trans and gender-nonconforming people. Not My Brotherís Keeper, but Our Childrenís Keeper.
We demand access to affordable healthy food for our neighborhoods.
We demand an aggressive attack against all laws, policies, and entities that disenfranchise any community from expressing themselves at the ballot.
We demand a public education system that teaches the rich history of Black people and celebrates the contributions we have made to this country and the world.
We demand the release of all U.S. political prisoners.
We demand an end to the military industrial complex that incentivizes private corporations to profit off of the death and destruction of Black and Brown communities across the globe.


but there is, of course, more on the page than just the lists. (And I didn't copy over the footnotes to which the numbers at the ends of some points refer.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:47 PM

10. Thank you for sharing this list

 

This is what we should all know by heart.

This reality is what needs to change. We progressives need to heed the call. We have done great things in the past when we forgot self and remembered community. Lets do it again.

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Response to artislife (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:57 PM

15. The automatic response to any challenge needs to be 'What is the opportunity I am being given?'

Not merely knee-jerk defensiveness. I regret that my very first comment on the protest leaned more towards cynicism and defensiveness. But that's a trap. It serves neither my preferred candidate, myself, or anyone else.

The opportunity here is to take the decrease in the level of obliviousness among the white portion of the country to black murders at the hands of police (thanks to cell phone videos) to push our next President (whichever of our candidates that might be) to craft policies and push for legislation that will result in a sea change in allowing police to get away with murder.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:14 PM

88. Why are we waiting for the "next' president? How many deaths between now and 2017

when one of these candidates takes office? These police need to be stopped now, not in two years.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #88)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:36 AM

95. This what I have on the number of demonstrations

 

https://elephrame.com/textbook/protests

This states there has been over 966 in the last year.

I think they are taking it to the streets. And it seems that it hasn't been the first time O'Malley has been protested against. He should actually be well acquainted with their message.
A quick scan shows that they are protesting police departments, Confederate statues, for the dead, for protesters who have been arrested and closing bridges.

There are 27 pages.

What strikes me is how littel impact all those protests have been before the incident on Friday.

So I don't think they are waiting for a candidate to get into office, I think they saw another venue to get the word out.

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Response to artislife (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:42 AM

97. Are they protesting President Obama and AG Lynch?

They are in a position to do something about black man, women and children being killed.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #97)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:54 AM

99. I didn't see it, but I didn't go through all 27 pages

 

Yes, they are.

But so are Police stations, mayors and governors. So is turning the attention on so the public see it, too.

I get it.

The only people they should be protesting to are those two. They seem to disagree.

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Response to artislife (Reply #99)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:06 AM

106. Who seems to disagree? BLM disagrees with protesting Obama and Lynch?

If they do that sure is strange. Two of the most powerful people in the government who can do something about their issues are not being protested. That's fucking crazy.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #106)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:26 AM

111. No I meant they seem to disagree

 

That they should only be protesting those two.

Aside----remind me to never start another thread again...this is exhausting.


They are incredibly powerful and heavily guarded, or at least Obama is. I haven't thought out their strategy.

I really think that there strategy to protest at a political event was smart. I would protest there. It seems to be a venue for focused attention of the candidates.

My main reason for starting this thread was the reaction of forgetting what the protesters were protesting about.

Black lives.

Gone.

And the main take away was that two men who have signed up to hear all the people of this country had to listen to the people and put aside what they were thinking of talking about.

I think they both did well, I think they both will be fine, and that this isn't going to be the event that will cause them to drop out.

But the reaction I saw here and on the internet seemed to me, little ol me, to be over reaction.

You do not agree. That is okay.

It is a big tent. I keep thinking this will blow over and then those names will fall from our lips and be forgotten again.

And that is sad.


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Response to artislife (Reply #111)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:24 AM

141. We need to hear more about the proposals to change this unacceptable situation.

The BLM demonstration could have been much more productive had it been given more time and not taken time from the speeches of the candidates. I never got to hear what O'Malley said about other issues, and there are other issues.

I say this as one who learned how to organize and solve social problems first from my father who was a social worker and minister and second from, and you will find this ironic, working with African-Americans, especially my boss, an African-American woman who was an expert at organizing and non-profit management and winning support for the fight against racism.

Also, the BLM movement has demonstrated a lot. I think it needs to make its list of concrete, actionable proposals clearer and begin to focus more energy on that.

Expressing frustration is important, but it won't change anything unless it is turned into a plan for action and then once there is a plan for action approaches of various kinds to the people who can make the plans reality -- politicians now serving and politicians running for office.

Sanders and O'Malley did not cause the racism in this country. And at this time, while they are in a position to take a stance on racism and I'm sure they would appreciate positive input from BLM and other Black groups on how to frame their stances, they are not in a position to do anything about it.

BLM needs to put much more pressure on Congress and the sitting President, and they need to have positive proposals to present. That takes schmoozing and not just screaming.

BLM is good at protesting, but I have not seen them selling a message that is positive well.

Essentially if you want change, if you want to get people to support your project and help make solutions to your problem the reality, you have to approach it like a salesman would or like a grant-writer would. (I did grant-writing for a project that mostly served black, homeless men. My boss was a Black woman who was great and effective at activism.)

You state the need clearly. BLM does that well. And then you state your general goal, your plan and programs or policies that will help reach that goal. And then you set out measurable specific very concrete goals you plan to meet and set forth precisely how you will measure your progress toward those goals. These steps can be modified to fit the current BLM issues.

BLM is defining the needs very well. But it is vague when it comes to proposing how to meet those needs.

People on DU have some good ideas. But BLM needs to propose how to change things and then present those proposals to the candidates in its own voice but in a manner so that the rest of us can hear the response.

I think that a lot of African-American movements have done this well. I learned as an adult from African-Americans. The proof that the BLM demonstration was not very effective was that it clearly was perceived as not quite the right thing at the right time by so many DUers.

I wish the BLM group good luck in their work, but they need to learn from experienced organizers. I read a post today on DU by Luminous Animal that was excellent. She has a great background in organizing.

If you are offending people who are on your side but may not be fully aware of your issues and ideas, you are doing something wrong. Strengthen you ties with your friends and enlist them to help you fight the wrongs. Don't offend potential allies until you know they are working against you. The BLM people probably did not offend Bernie or O'Malley, but they risked offending other potential friends and provided ammunition to racists although that was not their goal. Creating the appearance of a rift between your group and groups that could support you, could be your allies, is not a good idea. You need all the friends you can get. Don't sacrifice principles. Win potential friends to your principles. You want to have a voice in case either O'Malley or Bernie win the White House and either of them could.

And yes, as I said, I learned a lot from my African-American boss. She was a really effective saleswoman. I sometimes was amazed watching her in action. Fortunately, I allowed myself to be talked down to and taught by someone with more experience who happened to be wise and of another race. That is a good thing for all of us to do. We need to learn from each other and not be offended when others with more experience tell us how to do things better.

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Response to artislife (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:05 AM

105. So 966 demonstrations and the murders continue.

Obviously this group's solutions aren't working so they decide to shout down 2 presidential candidates who won't come into power until 2017.

Obama. Lynch, Holder and the rest are/were easily found in Washington D.C..

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Response to aspirant (Reply #105)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:16 AM

107. Gosh the body of your post is not what I was expecting from your title.

 

I would think after 966 demonstrations and the murders continue, I would be protesting in the lotto line, at the salsa dances, at the quiki mart, at the baseball stadiums and at the dog groomers.

But that's me.

I see that there is a train of thought that the people that should be protested to are, funnily enough, Black and in power. Sorry, that came to me when I pictured the 3 of them.

But that is probably not intentional.

So those are the only 3 people who are worth protesting, am I understanding you correctly?

Is that for every protest against civil injustice? What I mean is, should the protesters of Gay bashing/ murders only protest to those three?

Should we only protest homelessness to the Dept of Housing and Urban Developement?

I don't see the sense in that.

I just don't think we are going to agree.


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Response to artislife (Reply #107)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:28 AM

113. No one is saying the President and AG should be the ONLY people petitioned.

But surely they should be TWO of the people included, since they could, you know, actually spur some policy change?

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Response to artislife (Reply #107)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:32 AM

114. No. There are three people who should be protested. Among

all the many others and they aren't being protested. It's senseless to protest those not currently holding high positions that can't advance your cause while you ignore the most powerful who actually have the power to change things. Somethings wrong there.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #114)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:36 AM

117. Uncle

 

I will concede your point.

They are not protesting effectively, they should be protesting Obama, Holder, Lynch and all of congress and anyone else who can make policy change.


Where's the smilie with a sword impaled into my useless body?

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Response to artislife (Reply #107)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:53 AM

123. This is a joke, right

We are told we are white progressives unaware of the black culture so we point to people now in power and you say "funnily enough, black and in power."

Just how funny is it, is it knee-slapper funny?

" 966 demonstrations and the murders continue" and we suggest going to the existing people in power that have multiple governmental resources at hand and you compare that to "dog groomers", "salsa dancers" etc.. Is this another funny?

How many local, county and state officials did they protest to within the 966 demonstrations. These are also people in power who could make changes now or are these people funny too?

You say you want dialogue and then say we are not "going to agree" so it's your way or the highway.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #123)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:06 AM

126. It is not my way or the highway

 

1) Funny--odd occurance
2) Not knee slapper just double take
3) there are quite a few local authorities, Mayor O'Malley more than twice that I saw and I didn't notice the state. However, the link will take you there and you can be sure of the information you are receiving.
4) I think we have beaten this horse. I feel sure that you are standing by your point of view. I feel that I have listened to your point of view, I have conceded in another post in this OP that they should protest Obama, Lynch and other people in policy making potitions.
5) What we still don't agree on is that I feel protesting the police, the candidates, the flag, the monuments are also good places to protest.

I think I have allowed you to speak and I have read each word that you have written. Some questions you have for me are not in my scope of knowing. I feel in some way, that your posts are deflection away from what I originally asked. I understand that these threads are dynamic and flow into different points. I have no real urge to go there.

I think you disagree with that. So we are not going to agree. Doesn't make me better, doesn't mean my way or the highway, it just means I won't travel down that highway with you. I am not stopping you or saying you are wrong for you. I just don't want to go there.

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Response to artislife (Reply #126)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:30 AM

131. "allowed" me to speak,

how gracious of you as I HUMBLE myself before you.

You spoke of "a bunch of agendas" in some protest groups and now these bunches are a deflection.

"I have no real urge to go there" Now I say it's your one-way street

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Response to aspirant (Reply #131)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:42 AM

135. I give up

 

I am the enemy.

Alert me, ignore me, ban me, hit me with your rhythm stick.

I am out.

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Response to artislife (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:15 AM

144. 966???

Holy crap, traditional media coverage has been crappy. Yeah, they desperately to get the message in the face of those who don't use social media all that much. (And I barely consider blogs social media. Sadly, we're the BBS's of the past, for people who are middle aged and older.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:21 PM

70. Thank you.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:25 AM

142. Thanks for sharing this.

 

I think it is critical yet again to point out that at least half of these demands are about economic justice.

We want social AND economic justice. Not just one or the other. And the only ones pushing the meme that it is one or the other are the New Dems. No one else here is.

And like any community, its individual members might focus on one of these demands importance more than the other.

I will say it over and over and over again. There is no social justice without economic justice, and there is no economic justice without social justice. PERIOD!

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:44 PM

7. Yes we really are on the same team

 

But we need to know all our teammates and listen to how we can score goals and play defense to continue a sports metaphor.

We can't keep having the same team captains calling the same plays. The game has shifted, we are in the play offs.

Thank you for being on the same team!

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:47 PM

9. I applaud BLM and agree that we need action on this crucial matter NOW.

 

I do not applaud the disingenuous posters on DU that are co-opting the message of BLM to undercut Bernie.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:48 PM

11. I hear you

 

Lets focus on the first and act like President Obama on the second and let it roll off our backs!

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Response to artislife (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:52 PM

14. I'm working on that. [n/t]

 

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:49 PM

12. I want to listen but can not hear because of the very loud...

personal attacks when I point out that Bernie has answered those questions for years.

I am tired of anyone implying in any way that he is racist or that I am racist.

It's counter-productive. I have been a voice here since 2002 and suddenly I am about to be hushed for standing up and speaking out against the utter blatant rudeness and screaming and shouting against one of the men who has stood for these things for decades.

This goes beyond just BLM. It goes to next year's election. They do not plan to vote unless their candidate toes the exact line which they refuse to define.

I donated to them when they first formed, I think the purpose is a much needed one. But I can not go along with the attacks on good people who were made to look foolish on stage at an event to which they were invited.

The candidates were not humble enough?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027165

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:01 PM

19. I love your passion for Bernie

 

And I have posted to you on this to the point that I am surprise you don't have me on ignore. Thank you for always being able to listen to me. Really, thank you.

On to this matter
They know what Bernie has done. They know what Bernie has stood up for his entire adult life. They want to believe that he sees them, their lives, their lost loved ones, their pain.

Bernie talks in generalities. I believe because he sees everyone as worthy. This is his heart. They are asking him, to sit down and listen to what they are saying about specific issues and to speak to those specific issues back to them so they know they are heard.

Yes, they are screaming at this man because he is not answering their question. He is answering a more general question.

If your car was to break down on the side of the road and the mechanic said it was broken and he was going to fix it, you might be inclined to ask "What broke and how are you going to fix it? How much will it cost me, how long will I have to wait and will it drive like I want it to?" and he answers " It's broke and I am going to fix it." You might get frustrated by that response. Yes you know it is broken and he has a plan, but that isn't what you keep asking him about.

That is kind of like what the conversation feels like to BLM and others. They keep getting a response that doesn't satisfy the question they are asking.


Again, I would implore you to realize that the people who are frustrated are grieving and it doesn't matter much what happened before. It matters how their pain will ease today.

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Response to artislife (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:12 PM

28. It needs to get out of the personal arena.

Every time I am told I don't understand or don't care or am scorned because of white privilege that I have tried never to take advantage of....I cringe a little more.

I am not the enemy, Bernie is most certainly not the enemy. It has to be two-way conversation.

I taught through the worst times of desegregation, the riots, the shut downs, the classroom fights. I earned the respect of the students and parents, and believe me it had to be earned.

I don't think such scorn toward white progressives is necessary.

Did you see how the director of media for Netroots Nations trademarked those words?

White Progressivesô

Oh, and this is about way more than Bernie now. He's a big boy.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #28)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:21 PM

34. Yes it does

 

I know this is painful for you. I am sorry.

You are not the enemy and you have been on the side of moral right many times. You've taught and that is a large feat in and of itself.

Their scorn is that their question is not if you or Bernie are standing with them. But how. This is frustration and anger and grief in a big ball. Don't try to win. It isn't about wining in the internet. It is about feeling heard by a community under siege. Take yourself out of the equation. This is something I do when I feel defeated by a situation. I take my emotions, my meanings and significance to me out of the equation. Then I look at the situation as neutral. And look at different solutions or meanings and try them all out for size. It helps me get out of the same reaction again and again.

Yes to your last line. It is about more than just Bernie. He has become part of a meme. Which is good, no one of insignificance is a part of a meme. He does matter.

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Response to artislife (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:46 PM

85. I want to believe you're right about the motivations here.

But there's a lot here that doesn't add up. If BLM is unsatisfied with Sanders on the grounds that his prescriptions in response to this problem are too general, then why are they satisfied with vague platitudes crafted by HRC's campaign advisors? Why are they trying to tie a long-time civil rights activist to racist militia groups -- patently absurd nonsense -- while rallying around the candidate who ran a manifestly racist campaign just four years ago?

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Response to stranger81 (Reply #85)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:52 PM

86. I don't think they are happy with Hillary either

 

If she had been there, she would have faced the same thing. I believe she was shouted down in 2007 and hasn't been back since.

If it had been Webb, O'Malley and Hillary, the same thing would have happened. They are talking to those who want to lead this nation. And they have everyone aware and talking about BLM.

If you don't like their motivations, they hope that when the emotions dies down, that you will know more about the lives they are protesting FOR will sink in. And you will believe that they matter. And even if you do not join with BLM, you may join to shut down derelict police units, to force murder investigations, to prosecute and jail the murders.


And not forget the names of those who died.


I go back to that being the true motivation of BLM.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:50 PM

63. ^this^!

 

They do not plan to vote unless their candidate toes the exact line which they refuse to define.


I supported BLM initially. Until they they blocked the entrances to emergency rooms/hospitals on the day my daughter had an extremely serious life threatening emergency on may 30th and they responded then as they do now (right here on du) to the issue by insisting my complaint is about being "inconvenienced".

Something seriously disturbing about that thinking.

How does one "hear" that my daughter's life isn't as important as anyone of theirs, or that attending to her medical emergency is about the convenience for the privileged ? Never mind the tragic irony that hospital serves largely PoC community, and the majority is AA.

BLM's actions speak for themselves LOUD and clear, and what I've heard so far is not about a movement seeking socio-justice and equality. They may say they are, their actions belie that agenda.

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Response to 2banon (Reply #63)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:18 PM

89. Oh my God. That's very disturbing.

And yes, that does speak volumes. I hope your daughter is okay.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #89)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:07 AM

91. It was very scary for a few weeks, no thanks to the delayed medical attention

 

but it's been several weeks now, and she's recovering. thank you. I didn't mention for attention to myself but I felt compelled to discuss personal matters as this was indeed very personal and I do not take deliberately blocking Hospital emergency entrances lightly.

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Response to 2banon (Reply #91)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:19 AM

93. I'm very glad to hear she's recovering. I'll keep her in my thoughts.

And I didn't think you were looking for attention, but speaking out. I didn't know that they were doing anything like that. It's beyond the pale, very appalling. There's no excuse for that. None. I do appreciate your sharing your story. People should know who they're supporting.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #93)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:41 AM

96. thanks for kind words..

 

at first I had assumed it was the Black Bloc Anarchist involved in that because in the past during anti-war demos they'd always infiltrate our marches then do a break-away from the march and proceed with all manner of destruction and mayhem. But then the meme in response to the outrage of blocking hospitals was that we were complaining about being "inconvenienced".

That was stated on the air and right here on DU.

That was an awakening moment for me wrt to what BLM is all about now. A pity it is. Could have had such potential as an agent for positive change.

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Response to 2banon (Reply #63)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:02 AM

102. Blocking emergency enterances is very not acceptable

 

I had not heard that.

I am happy to hear your daughter is on the mend. I understand why you feel the way you do. I thank you for also lamenting the fact that it could be a vehicle for good. Having been involved in the housing protests here, I do know that some people love the anarchy part and not really the coalition building. I also feel that even though there a bunch of agendas in every protest group, the message is can still be important.


I do think a political event is a good place for a protest, though.

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Response to artislife (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:17 AM

108. "bunch of agendas in every protest group"

The ER was definitely a mistake and what if another agenda turns ugly?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #108)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:28 AM

112. What if?

 

What if it turns into the epiphany this country needs?

Lets not be fearful.

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Response to artislife (Reply #112)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:21 AM

127. Let's believe in "Hope and Change"

and from whence it came

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Response to aspirant (Reply #127)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:28 AM

130. I did.

 

And looking at what Obama achieved, I think he delivered a lot of it.


Not all,


but I am proud of him and his grace and grit.


And I love that family.


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Response to artislife (Reply #130)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:37 AM

133. What did he deliver as far as black unemployment,

black murders and Black incarcerations, in Bernie's speeches?

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Response to 2banon (Reply #63)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:26 AM

129. So sorry. Hope she got the care she needed.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:49 PM

13. I agree. I think Bernie knows how to handle himself. I'm not worried about him.

I also think he appreciates the value of protest having engaged in it many times himself. And I think he will show how his candidacy is relevant to black people. I'm sure he's gotten the memo by now.

There are two negative memes going around DU right now regarding our candidates, 1) Bernie doesn't care about black people, and 2) Bernie supporters dislike Hillary because they are sexist. I even saw one guy on here claiming that female Bernie supporters here are sexist when it comes to Hillary.

Both of those memes are total bullshit and are propagated by people who are more concerned about Hillary winning than they are about the truth.

That being said, I am now going to shut up and listen, which is mainly what I do around here.

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Response to Tobin S. (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:03 PM

21. Thank you

 

Yeah, there are always memes against each other's supporters. Except O'Malley's. They better be prepared though, if he starts to rise in the polls!
Speak your mind, because you listen!

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:57 PM

16. I know what their grievences are. You have to be living in a cave not to.

 

I want to hear their solutions.
Screaming "Say my name" over and over is not a solution and will change nothing.
Blind siding and shouting down the two most progressive Preswidential candidates will change nothing.
Raising wages and creating jobs WILL change something.
Policing the police and citizen review boards will change something.
Bernie is going to do that.
I have so far not heard one solution proposed by BLM.
I'm listening.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:06 PM

22. I believe if you look up thread you will see a list

 

and I think they are also asking Bernie if he has a plan.

Thank you for answering

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Response to artislife (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:05 PM

47. O.K. I looked at the list. I don't think there is one thing on the list that Bernie disagrees with.

 

You want him to provide detailed solutions to these problems a few months into the campaign? That's simply not realistic. These problems are ingrained and complicated. They are not going to be solved by platitudes. They will not be solved on inauguration day. Hell, a black president has not been able to solve them in eight years! President Trump is sure as hell not going to fix these things! We need to be working together, not yelling at each other if we hope to address any of this.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:09 PM

48. Well they want to believe he agrees with them specifically

 

Thank you for reading the list.

I think they want to hear him say specifically to each issue what he agrees with and how he would solve it.

He isn't afraid to talk about free college, universal health care.

I have faith, he will understand what answers they are waiting for and I have faith that he will listen to them intently.

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Response to artislife (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:33 PM

56. First, thanks for keeping this conversation civil. Reminds me of DU back in the day.

 

I read the list of grievences. I read the list of femands. I did not see the list of solutions yet you expect Bernie to come up with solutions NOW. Sadly, the realpolitic is that Bernie cannot run a Presidential campaign just on the demands of BLM. He needs to run a campaign on (unfortunatly) soundbites that appeal to as many people as possible, not just BLM. I'm sorry this is the way our system works, I wish it was better but the reality is that this is how it is. BLM shoul be working with Bernie on real solutions. They can't expect him to solve all the problems of injustice in this country by himself. It is simply not realistic to present a list of demands without offering constructive ways to achieve these demands. Bernie is not God. He can't wave a wand and fix everything. He is going to need our help. We need to be helping him, not yelling at him.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #56)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:40 PM

57. I believe in civil unrest but also civil exchange!

 

Thank you for the kind words.

We all do need to lower our voices and really listen now that the attention is here.

I understand, unfortunately, that campaigning is about short, memorable sound bites. And the answers needed don't squeeze into them.

I am not sure I even expect him to come up with solutions now, upon reflection. I would be happy to hear him say that he thought he had a plan forward for everyone but that maybe he needs help on focusing on police brutality that furthers justice but also has the community most affected by it knowing that they are being seen, heard and represented. Bernie is a big idea person. They are asking for details. He needs a way to convert the big idea and break it down. It would be good if he worked with the community to do that.

I appreciate you pushing me into more thought.

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Response to artislife (Reply #57)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:06 PM

75. Again, thank you for this civil conversation.

 

I've been a DU member since membership was in the 700s. Back then, most discussions were like this. We could have different positions but we could talk to each other. As DU grew that changed. You'll notice that my post count is really low for someone who has been here almost every day for fourteen years. I simply don't have the time or the patience for flame wars. My ignore list is well populated. Our duologue has been refreshing.

One thing I would like to say about your last post. You said it would be a good thing if Bernie worked with the BLM community.

I am fairly active in the Democratic party here in Arizona. I am a precinct committee member in Legislative District 11, Congresswoman Ann Kirkpatrick's district. I am also the President of our local Democratic club. I personally know a number of people who have run for office in our state. Running a campaign even for a state office is absolutely brutal and all consuming. It's grueling. I can't even imagine a presidential campaign. You have to be ON 24/7. Hell, I can't even be on 24/12!

How about instead of asking Bernie to work with the community, the community worked with Bernie. How about if instead of asking Bernie for solutions to their demands, the community provides Bernie with realistic ways to solve these problems in the real world. I have no doubt that, if real solutions were offered he would fold them into his campaign. It's not hard to contact his campaign and I'm sure he would be receptive to realistic, positive input

I don't have many people here that I consider real friends. You have just joined that group. Thank you.

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #75)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:18 PM

77. Gee...thanks *blush

 

I agree that to be a politician is brutal and campaigning is like playing chutes and ladders. I couldn't do it. I am too lazy and too sensative. Not a good combination.

I applaud you on your work in Arizona, man are you in the trenches. I am kind of afraid to go there, I am a little brown and all I see is bad press. But you must have been energized by the speech and crowd. First hand accounts have been glowing and inspired
I hear what you are saying about the community offering solutins and that is what will happen if there is successful dialog. I do think they want to see what he has thought about it before that stage, is he commited to their needs.

I learned from picketing the first gulf war with my brother. He would be so polite as people hurled insults at us. I would get mad, but he would be calm and explain if he could. He said my anger did nothing but give a space for more anger. He is really deep.

He works against the INS in LA. He has done so many good things on a small level and large.

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Response to artislife (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:42 PM

58. It is not about grievances. BLM had the perfect opportunity to

list their grievances to two receptive candidates but BLM did not come with a prepared statement listing grievances and demands, they instead disrupted the session and then have consistently lied about O'Malley and Bernie reactions and dissed white progressives. Its all
self-aggrandizing bullshit.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #58)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:43 PM

59. I respectfully disagree nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:56 PM

74. Is BLM also working with Hillary on a plan? She's the front runner candidate and not

exempt from becoming involved in this very impt. matter just because she isn't active on the campaign trail like Bernie now. Hillary's definitely around, has the time and staff. And she is, as BLM knows probably the one who will be in the WH next although I'm pulling for Bernie.

I've wondered also for more than a year, about where our govt. is on this? -the DOJ, national and state, and governors and police depts.? I've heard very little about definite strategic action and solutions for this brutal, tragic and national epidemic of racist attacks and killings that are widespread and growing. Can and will BLM approach and demand time of state governors and AJs? And city mayors? Or have they tried? And it is clear that elected reps. and govt. officials should be initiating policy. I'm listening, willing to hear, learn and do more. My entire life has been directly involved with black lives matter in our country and in my family.

A Thought: When the ebola epidemic commanded national attention for two months it was in M$M 24/7, then the scare disappeared the very day after the 2014 election was over. Nada. This matter is far more pressing and destructive to this county now and there's not much deep effort from the media except incidents reporting.

As far as Bernie, he's handled public events where there's been some controversy and disruption to some extent no doubt throughout his public career of 40 years. He is familiar with protesting and organizing from as far back as his college involvement with Civil Rights. His history of advocating and supporting programs and policies to benefit working people, PoC and others is well documented and should be more known.
While on stage the host informed Bernie that his speech had to be cut short by 15 mins. IMO the mgmt. should have taken control, handled the issue as necessary at large events. This situation was managed in an unprofessional and negligent way to me, and all parties suffered, the BLM message effort, the invited political guests and the host who was confused but tried to keep it together.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:09 PM

76. To answer your first question and more

 

Yes, I believe they want to work on a plan with Hillary, Martin, Jim anyone who is trying to become the next president.

I also think they have tried to get everyone, anyone who will listen to come on board. They are asking for all our help.

It is hard to go locally, because it is the local authorities who are killing them in many instances. We are kind of like Amnesty International.

Yeah...the media are tools, in every meaning of the word. We cannot count on them to be in our best interest. Sometimes they are, but that is more like a happy accident.

I actually think this has helped him get his history out, however, it isn't about his history. It is about their present.

I don't know how I would have handled moderating on Friday. I think in the scheme of things, this is a great starting point for Bernie to get specific. The good news, this is early. He has time now to really help shape the dialog about Black Lives Matter in a way that will hopefully stop the senseless killing.

Answering your points...thank you for the dialog.

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Response to artislife (Reply #76)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:39 PM

78. This all is happening under Obamas watch

so I want to know specifically what are his solutions to BLM demands?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #78)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:40 PM

79. I cannot answer that nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #79)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:13 PM

82. Why can't you?

You have no problems suggesting Bernie sit down and find solutions to their demands but a sitting President gets a pass from you?

Why are you not tweeting or e-mailing BLM to contact the President and immediately try to work things out?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #82)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:38 PM

84. This feels combative and reaching into off topic.

 

I don't think I could give you a satisfactory answer.
I do believe there are many threads that agree with you and that is great.
We are a big tent.

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Response to artislife (Reply #84)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:55 PM

87. If you can't even give any answer

you must ask yourself why?

If you are truly involved in immediate solutions to stopping this, the President should be your primary focus

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Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:19 PM

33. Thank you

+1

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:59 PM

17. I was paying attention...

 

...no longer interested.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:06 PM

23. I am sorry to hear that.

 

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:08 PM

25. Well that's shameful.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:14 PM

29. My support isn't wanted.

 

So be it. I'll still support the candidate who cares most about the issue, even if he's not given credit for it.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:26 PM

35. What?

OK, I'm going to be very blunt here.

I don't know what went down, but I know something here did. And I know it was something with one of the most respected members of du.

I think, perhaps, you need to listen. Actually read what is written and evaluate how your response came off

Now, let's assume I'm completely wrong and you did everything right. Even then, to not support BLM because you feel that, or maybe it was even said, they don't want your support, you should still support this most worthy cause. When every 28 hours in this country, a person of color is killed by law enforcement, which includes in custody, to not support the movement is, to me, reprehensible.

Suck it up. If you were told that your support wasn't welcome, you need to figure out why and fix it. There's something wrong there. And saying things like you're not interested or they don't want me so forget it, frankly, sounds childish.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:32 PM

37. I'm a "white progressive".

 

Our support isn't wanted, and we "needed to be taught a lesson". Okay. Attacking would-be allies is a bizarre strategy imo, but if BLM wants to roll alone they're more than welcome.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #37)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:38 PM

39. Yeah,

Something isn't right there. BLM has many white allies. They are part of the movement. But they are doing as people that are actually suffering from the persecution want. That doesn't mean shut up. It means this movement is about them and, although we can voice opinions, ultimately, it's their decision on how this goes.

I suspect you are not really hearing what was said. I will have to look it up. It's never the first reaction to anyone, that their support isn't wanted.

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Response to marym625 (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:51 PM

42. On the contrary

 

Everyone's support is wanted.

Mere words are not support, though. Action, through phone calling, letter writing, protest march making,and movement building.

And lets make sure we are getting the support BLM is asking for, not what we think is best.

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Response to artislife (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:00 PM

45. What did I say contrary to what you just said?

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Response to marym625 (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:01 PM

46. Replied to wrong post...sorry!

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:25 PM

50. No worries

Glad to hear it. I was confused!

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Response to marym625 (Reply #50)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:27 PM

53. :)

 












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Response to artislife (Reply #53)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:29 PM

54. That's me falling down drunk

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Response to marym625 (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:32 AM

132. Trust me, he heard it correctly.

I know.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:01 PM

18. I can only imagine the slugfests he's had to endure over his political life.

 

I proud he's managed to prevail on most of them.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:03 PM

20. I'm listening

And if anyone is interested in HER name, more than Sandra Bland, here are a few

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251460831

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Response to marym625 (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:09 PM

26. I remember reading

 

That thread, going to the links and watching the videos


Please everyone, follow the link. This is what is going on. And more.

We have a chance to change it.

One of the meditations I have worked on for the last 2 months was to be grateful for things that have absolutely no impact on my life.
From that, I have chosen to work on issues that I don't personally gain from.

I am not African American. But this is now my cause.

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Response to artislife (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:16 PM

30. Thank you

Frankly, with all the uproar here about this, you would think people would want to know what it's really about.

Good for you. That's very noble of you. We should all be as virtuous. You are setting a great example

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Response to marym625 (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:32 PM

38. Well, I am a noble savage

 

Heh...my grandfather was raised on the Rez.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:07 PM

24. I cannot say it often enough:

Most of their demands should be addressed by
the states. Federal laws referring to social as
well as criminal justice are extremely weak.

Also looking at something like gentrification cannot
be addressed by the laws, under our system this
is part of the so-called free market.

Asking for only their people to get living wages makes it
look like reverse discrimination (I know, what they mean,
but, please, not in that language.

Lastly they should call themselves BBLM, because many
of our brown people suffer from similar problems.

Just my take,after reading fast through their program.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:12 PM

27. Yes it can be a PoC issue

 

But I won't delute the message.

When Blacks rise, so do we all. Really. They are the people who actually fight to make it better for everyone.


I am Latina/Native and the crimes against my communities are many but I won't delute this message.

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Response to artislife (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:17 PM

31. +1bazillion!

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:17 PM

32. When I heard the uproar about the death of Trayvon Martin I thought things would change

 

When I heard the uproar about the death of Michael Brown I thought things would change

When I heard the uproar about the death of Tamir Rice I thought things would change

When I heard the uproar about the death of Eric Garner I thought things would change

When I heard the uproar about the death of Freddie Gray I thought things would change

When I heard about the death of Sandra Bland it began to hit me that nothing has really changed.

When I heard the wonderful woman whose voice had gone horse from screaming for her brothers and sisters who were no longer with us at Netroots Nation I realized not a fucking thing has changed and I felt ashamed.

This protest was not about Martin O'Malley or Bernie Sanders. It was about our brothers & sisters who have endured more than I would ever want to imagine.

Bernie cares deeply about what is happening and I know he'll be doing the best he can to get things started. With people coming together things will and must change.

Peace out....

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Response to think (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:30 PM

36. Excellent

 

It's a new trail of tears.

That roll call was moving. And somehow it got lost in the border squirmishes across the internet.

People are dead.

Dead.

We can go and see movies about The Disappeared and feel bad about those poor mothers in another land. We can shake our heads at students buried in a mass grave in the countryside of Mexico.

Why can we not be enraged then mobilized by the death of our fellow citizens?

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:42 PM

40. Listening, and supporting the protests...

As I've said many times; we need more protests, not less; we need to listen and understand why folks are crying out, not condemn.

While I know a lot of people won't agree with me, I think these protests are good for the political process. Democracy is messy.



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Response to MerryBlooms (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:53 PM

43. YES!!!

 

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 05:46 PM

41. Can everyone tell me the names of both women

who were "suicides" in the past week? Check my sig line if you can't and read this great OP ED from the NYTimes this afternoon: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016128196

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Response to TBF (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:00 PM

44. Thank you thank you thank you

 

I had heard of the second "apparent suicide" on FB but it got swallowed down the hole. I tried doing a search but couldn't remember enough info for me to find it.



Please follow TBF's link.


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Response to artislife (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:14 PM

49. They just posted Blow's OPEd this afternoon -

he's a great writer and hopefully people will learn Kindra Chapman's name as well.

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Response to artislife (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:49 PM

62. +1 n/t

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:26 PM

51. Another well stated post.

Thank you.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:26 PM

52. undefensive listening

He can do it, and so can we.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:33 PM

55. I have asked and listened

Received some great replies from bravenak and bloodaxe to my questions.

We need to pull together for all of us to prosper.

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Response to ybbor (Reply #55)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:48 PM

61. Bravenak was the one that made yesterday fun

 

I thought the BerniesoBlack tweets were funny and I am thankful she posted the thread. She has the patience of a saint, I have seen her responses today and I just want to buy her a vacation to island of her dreams.

I don't recognize bloodaxe but I am still relatively new here so there are a lot of names.

But you are listening to the right people and if we all just acknowledge that we are human and fillable, we can be open to learning and growing.

Hell to the yeah about prosperity! I have had 5 years of doom. My car just got towed to the mechanic again this week end. I need it to earn my living.

end of whining.



Dammit...I must use spell check each and every time.....good lord, I am a bad speller.

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Response to artislife (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:58 PM

64. The actual name is Erich Bloodaxe BSN

You actual traded comments above.

Great insight from both.

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Response to ybbor (Reply #64)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:01 PM

65. I do that name...I didn't recognize the nick name!

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:23 PM

71. I hate to think....

that you agree with the things she said last night that I needed to stop posting about it.

If that's the case, if that is what others think....then I am really in another space and time.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #71)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:32 PM

72. I don't recall her responses to you

 

I recall her responses in general to listen. I felt she was truly trying to explain why the AAs on this board, on the internet and at NN felt like they were not being heard.

I interpreted the posts that I noticed of hers, and I didn't read all the threads because they made me feel a bit desperate... but I interpreted her posts to say not to post the same posts because the questions and statements being raised were not being answered by some of the posts. It was like watching two sides play telephone but neither of the strings met both plastic ear cups.


I am trying to stay out of personal battles...mine and others. It isn't easy because I would like to rise up and scream at some of the posts I see, but I try to take my perspective out and listen to each exchange with a fresh ear.

I don't always succeed. But when I do, I feel I grow.

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Response to artislife (Reply #72)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:40 PM

73. I have built a good reputation here overall.

I may not be esp. well-liked, but I speak the truth and I don't attack. When stuff like this is posted it will shut me up for sure. At least in that one forum. Maybe in this one.

Post #107

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251459005

Please note I do NOT attack Hillary, and am known for not attacking.

It worries me because now I can't post there. There were on last count 5 after me.

So here I am an enemy for posting a thread or two about publicly embarrassing our candidates.

Now I'm done, won't dirty up your thread anymore.

I would like be that accepting of what happened, but not there yet.

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Response to artislife (Reply #72)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:58 PM

80. " I try to take my perspective out"

Really, madfloridian has a different perspective. You admit "I didn't read all the threads" but "it was like watching two sides" and 2 sides = 2 different perspectives.

So here you are promoting your perspective while madfloridian is upset with it.

This is just dividing Bernie supporters and you should delete

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Response to aspirant (Reply #80)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:05 PM

81. I read the exchange she pointed me to

 

After that statement.

I understand she is upset.

I don't think I am dividing Bernie supporters, I think the divide on this topic was already there. I just wanted a thread that was not full of anger. I believe I haven't attacked anyone for having the other belief, one that is prominently displayed on this site. I have kept this in the Bernie thread so it wouldn't attract other posters who may have an agenda to further divide us. I was hoping to dialogue.

So no, I do not agree with your suggestion that I should delete whether you mean the response to madfloridian or the OP.

Thank you for your comment.

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Response to artislife (Reply #81)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:26 PM

83. The other side

has doubts if BLM is the right group to talk with here. WE promote a wait and see attitude to find out if this is a one time screaming event or if it will continue without discrimination.

You are promoting discussion now before a complete picture is revealed. What is the rush? Patience will connect Bernie to the people who will elevate his campaign.

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Response to artislife (Reply #81)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:07 AM

137. Someone actually just defended me after those attacks.

Got a heads up and read it. It was like a refreshing breath of air to even see one person stand and say kind things when I was posting a video from Bernie a month before the NN15 fiasco where he is saying every thing they wanted him to say.

It took courage for that person to step in after that. I intend to thank them.

As you say we must disagree on this. Perhaps we can find common ground on other things.

I was hushed up in that forum, and I am afraid to post there anymore.

I hope others are able to withstand the white progressive name calling. I thought I was tough, but not that tough.

After 13 years I am fearful of posting.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #137)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:45 AM

140. ...

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #137)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:22 AM

146. I feel your pain.

 

I too got hammered for having the temerity to question BLM's tactics. Maybe I was wrong in my opinion, but the outrage by scarletwoman and others in response to my disagreement reached comic proportions. Sometimes I think the white people that push the whole "stfu and listen" line so hard don't know any black people in real life. In the real world a white progressive can calmly and rationally discuss issues of race with a black person and even disagree without being accused of whitesplaining or bullying or condescending or whatever. Personally, I feel it is disrespectful to treat blacks like delicate flowers who can't handle any disagreement from a white person.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #146)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:27 AM

147. I am tired of being shamed for being white.

The white privilege white progressive label is being used to make us feel ashamed of the color of our skin.

I am automatically considered racist because I am white, and if I deny it I am much more racist.

Those attacks fed on each other, adding to the mess.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #147)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:36 AM

148. Try not to be too discouraged by it.

 

You can't win with some people, but the vast majority are reasonable enough to get along with.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #146)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:58 PM

150. You might be on to something.

Maybe they don't know any black people in real life. But goodness, some sure feel free to speak for them. I guess it's allowed, as long as you say the right things, though. I would never, as a white woman, presume to speak for a black person, or a Hispanic or Native person, for that matter. It would be very disrespectful, I agree, and it takes a level of temerity which I don't have.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 06:47 PM

60. Thank you for this valuable, level headed thread.

DU can use more of it.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:08 PM

66. Good post. I wouldn't even say they heckled him. They challenged him to stand up.

 

I think he will.

Thanks.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:14 PM

67. The founder openly said in an interview that the candidates were not "humble enough"..

That goes to motive right there.

After all the personal attacks last night by at least 4 people, it will be a while before I feel much better about what happened. They tossed Bernie's words and actions aside as if they had no meaning. I would hate for someone to say my life has had no meaning.

Why do we accept that from a group that says our candidates need to to be humbled.

A lifetime of work should matter. We should not accept that it does not.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #67)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:20 PM

69. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this

 





That's okay. We will find common ground elsewhere.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:04 AM

104. I hear you Mad.

 

I am penning a post that I will link to you here.

There is a fundamental generational communication problem occurring here amongst allies.

If I can help clear that up, maybe both sides can hear each other.

Talk task, but I will take a stab at it.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #104)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:41 AM

119. You are on to something with the generational communication

 

It could be regional in my case, too.

Seattle, we protest. We protest in kayaks, we protest in Starbucks, we protest in front of Micro apartments, we protest with many, we protest with 3. The Bank of America in Columbia City get protested twice a week. We protest our police force because they kill people with whittling knives, we protest Wall Mart.

It could be our thing.

And

We are rude.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:50 AM

121. That not "humble enough" bullshit really pissed me off.

A lifetime of work does matter, and fuck anyone who wants to erase it.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:14 PM

68. K&R BlackLivesMatter.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:22 PM

90. I know, the situation is dire and people are being murdered

and getting away with it. Why is BLM people going after candidates and ignoring that fact that we have a black President in office, we have a black Attorney General in charge of the DOJ we have a Congress and we have a Senate? These people are in office. Now, at this time. Why isn't BLM organizing protests against those in office who have the power to change things now, at this time?

Sanders or O'Malley if elected aren't going to take office until 2017 , I hear no plans from our black President, our black female Attorney General to stop these killings I don't see them fighting along side BLM and I sure don't see BLM protesting them. Why are they getting a pass? How many men, women and children are going to be shot like animals and left to die in a fucking street between now and then? What the fuck are they waiting for?

Every politician in office from Obama on down should be protested at every move they make, until they fucking stop the killing. Bernie doesn't need protecting, he's an old hand at this stuff. I think he handled the whole thing very well. I have a problem with BLM's decision to disrupt the debates and the way they behaved with the candidates that made the effort to go there and discuss their issues. They would do better to be tweeting to organize massive protests aimed at making those in a position to do something, rather than tweeting to mock their allies and not allowing the candidates to hear and discuss their issues.

I don't have to read the comments, my heart breaks every time one of my brothers and sisters of color are murdered. We are one people, that grief and loss and fear is mine.

That's my comment. I'm listening.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #90)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:09 AM

92. +1,000,000

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Response to Autumn (Reply #90)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:52 AM

98. Spot On Autumn.

 

you expressed it precisely.

Every politician in office from Obama on down should be protested at every move they make, until they fucking stop the killing. Bernie doesn't need protecting, he's an old hand at this stuff. I think he handled the whole thing very well. I have a problem with BLM's decision to disrupt the debates and the way they behaved with the candidates that made the effort to go there and discuss their issues. They would do better to be tweeting to organize massive protests aimed at making those in a position to do something, rather than tweeting to mock their allies and not allowing the candidates to hear and discuss their issues.



Why are they getting a pass? How many men, women and children are going to be shot like animals and left to die in a fucking street between now and then? What the fuck are they waiting for?










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Response to 2banon (Reply #98)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:04 AM

103. I'm getting sick and tired of some of the people here fucking whining about Bernie

and O'Malley not doing enough while everyone else who has the pulpit to do something about these issues are being given a fucking pass. Fuck that noise. We Bernie supporters are not the enemy.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #103)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:17 AM

109. Exactly.

 



We Bernie supporters are not the enemy.


And we're not the ones who need to educated on racism, the roots of institutional racism, and white privilege.

We certainly aren't the ones that need to be shouted down on. We're allies! sheesh! Our candidate is an Ally! A Comrade in the STRUGGLE fffs!! The real deal. Genuine. Authentic.

i read Rand Paul had a well turned out rally in Texas. Did BLM show up to Rand Paul's rally? I posed that question in a thread in GDP. No response, so I take it as a NO. Why the fuck not?

I'm so done with it.

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Response to 2banon (Reply #109)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:23 AM

110. Getting a lot of crickets when you ask uncomfortable question are you?

I know I am. Even from a couple of Bernie "supporters" I have been asking why Obama and Lynch, two powerful people who could turn loose the DOJ on all these police department aren't being protested. No answers

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Response to Autumn (Reply #110)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:32 AM

115. No I had to walk 3 dogs and go and feed a cat

 

I am a pet sitter.

Autumn, it pains me that you are angry with me.

I am a Bernie supporter. I just don't think we all have to march in lockstep.

I respect that 3/4 of the Bernie supporters from what I gather do not agree with me.

That will not stop me from caucusing in WA for him, for trying to get him to the White House.

It won't.

I promise.

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Response to artislife (Reply #115)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:39 AM

118. I'm not talking about you and I'm certainly not angry at you.

None of us march in lockstep and that's a good thing. But you know what? There is no reason at all why Bernie supporters should be lectured the way we have been, no reason for that at all. I'm getting fed up with that noise and the lies being told about Bernie and his supporters..

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Response to Autumn (Reply #118)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:51 AM

122. We are getting more than we should

 

But I have to say, some of what I read is ----sorry----tone deaf on the behalf of some very vocal Bernie supporters. Or they claim to be

yikes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>me running>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Oh believe me, I know there are gleeful H supporters thanking their lucky stars she wasn't there and they don't have to defend her remarks or her being "disrespected" because there would be the same range of reactions.

And I see the well placed post her and there. Just stirring a little bit more....



I personally, look forward to her inevitable gaff and watching the fall out from there.

I am not that noble, obviously.




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Response to Autumn (Reply #110)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:34 AM

116. Well.. I think we know why.

 

As I read from a BLM'r on DU. paraphrasing: 'This is the greatest president we ever had'

and h/she's going to: 'miss him and won't know what to do when he leaves office'.

We're easy targets, because we DO get it. and we're the only ones hanging around for them to shout at.

That's why they're not going after the likes of Rand Paul, et al. who openly brags about their racists ideas, or actual sitting political officials from the White House to the DoJ to the Senate and Congress etc. who CAN take real action today. just my opinion. but that's the way it's looking to me now.


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Response to 2banon (Reply #116)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:44 AM

120. In a way, it is a form a flattery

 

They believe we can hear them if we try.

We believe we are trying.

They don't believe the repubs will ever even try.

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Response to artislife (Reply #120)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:23 AM

145. Then their leader's promise to "shut down every debate" came with an asterisk.

Only certain people in certain forums, I guess. That's not flattery I'm smelling.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:23 AM

94. Listening

We have to get past trying to protect Bernie, he's got himself covered.

We need to get in line a protect our brothers and sisters of color.


Yes, I agree. This.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:01 AM

100. I hear you loud and clear.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:01 AM

101. You are not the only one.

 

This is my community. I have been speaking and listening since the beginning.

I support protest. I also support dialog. I know we need both.

I have a different take on what is happening and when I finish the post I will add it here.

I trust BLM AND I do need to see them go beyond NrN and the protests with only O'Malley and Sanders. I need to see them to take this to the other Democratic candidates, the debates, the convention, the GOP, and yes, the current sitting state and federal officials who can and should make some of these changes right now.

I see that a list of demands is up-thread and I reply to it as well.

Thank you for supporting us and listening to us.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #101)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:54 AM

124. Thank you

 

I finally got to this post.

We think we both are brown people or maybe I am projecting here. Even if not, I consider you an amigo! --or amiga, not sure of gender here.


And yes, add it here.

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Response to artislife (Reply #124)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:58 AM

125. You are not.

 

I have a black father and a white mother. And my father's family includes Afro-Caribbean Latino blood. I am brown skinned and this is my community as well.

I am proud to be your amigo!

Here is the link to my post --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=464663

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Response to TM99 (Reply #125)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:25 AM

128. Well thought out.

 

There are generational differences. I know there are business coaches that go into companies and teach them how to talk to each other here in Seattle.

This is a city that protests like millennials. We protest everything. And we protest hard.

This could be why I wasn't fazed by the shouting over the candidates. I was struck by the poignancy of the roll call.

So the agenda changed, as an Xer, that's okay.

It is good, because you have reminded me WHY so many people were upset.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:37 AM

134. " Please comment if you are listening or ready to listen."

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:46 AM

136. good night

 

It's almost midnight and this may have been the longest day of my life.

Sleep well, everyone.

Stay safe and well

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:33 AM

138. The only point I would make is if you invite someone to a town hall for a dialog, and prevent that

dialog from happening, then it isn't a dialog.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:41 AM

139. Wanna buy a bridge? nt

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 06:59 AM

143. I'm ready for minority outreach duty

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:39 PM

149. My advice to me today

 

Strength:

Anger could raise its ugly little head today, but you have things under control. Don't engage, if possible, and tactfully deflect the worst of whatever misunderstanding caused the outbreak. If it's repressed anger, there may never be any loud or angry words. You can smooth any ruffled feathers simply by standing up and not being intimidated or rushed into any action or opinion. Be at your best today.


Okay Artislife, you can do this.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 04:22 PM

151. spot fucking-on!

And Bernie gets that. You better believe it. As should we all.

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Response to artislife (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 04:58 PM

152. This is critical, both to the nation and to Sander's campaign.

I'm listening. I've been listening, and now I'm seeking out MORE to listen to.

I think we ought to be asking the campaign to address this more specifically, and more comprehensively. I've seen an improvement already, but I think we, and Sanders, can do more.

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