Yo, Sandernistas: get a grip!

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:59 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm seeing a spate of posts dismaying about the inane attacks being made against Bernie and his fantastic supporters.

Wake up!

As Ghandi is said to have said: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

You can guess which stage we're at . And the tough part about fighting against Bernie is that there's nothing real to attack him with. He holds the same positions and values as the vast majority of Americans, and has held them for decades. He has never been known to lie, cheat, or steal. He's the real deal, from every angle.

So they go with what they got: ludicrous nonsense.

That is not to say that Bernie's campaign can't improve. It must grow even better, even stronger, and even better if we are to take back our country - the Republicans and Third Way are crafty and hold huge hordes of treasure. But we have the firmest of foundations to build on. And we will build.

So take a deep breath and stand tall. The crap means that we're coming on strong, and they're worried; I recommend that whenever you see their spew, just smile and say to yourself: "Ha! More evidence that we're winning!" And get out there and make 'em even more worried. Keep bludgeoning them with facts and reality, those are the best tools that we have and nothing can withstand them if used liberally.

No hand wringing!

We. Will. Win.

[Tobin S.]

1. Thanks, Manny. I needed that.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. You're welcome.

Now get out there and throw three Truth Grenades, right away.

[billhicks76]

47. Clinton Is A Bush Republican In Democratic Clothing

Make any sarcastic, weak, defensive remarks as expected. These are the facts. Get over it.

[Tobin S.]

54. Did you mean to reply to me? I was being sincere.

[billhicks76]

78. Not You

Speaking generally. Thought I worded that wrong. Sorry.

[djean111]

3. No hand-wringing here.

And I believe that pretty much everybody here has settled on their candidate.
I am almost positive that none of the other candidates' supporters really feel like the election will be won or lost here at DU, or that if they are unpleasant enough, we will all run out and buy non-Bernie bumper stickers. Right?

In a way, this is fascinating. And weird. For all the BLM stuff being flung about by Hillary supporters, Hillary is concentrating on - Wall Street.

[merrily]

53. Unpleasantness has made people leave DU, or at least take a break, though.

or that if they are unpleasant enough, we will all run out and buy non-Bernie bumper stickers

[MightyMax]

4. Sanders won't win without Large support from Minorities

As much as I want Bernie Sanders to be our next president, I already see a Big challenge that his campaign must address ASAP.
We have to get out of the mentality that it's early in the campaign and that it's Hillary that should be worried. First of all, Super Tuesday in March 1st. On that day, 12 major states will vote for the nominee, and that's after 4 states voted in February (Iowa, NH, SC, NV). The Primary race could essentially be over in March. That means Bernie has about 6 months to build a Large following of African-Americans & Hispanics because THEIR votes can be the deciding factor in this primary. Unfortunately for Bernie, Hillary already has a Huge following among Minorities; no thanks to her record but thanks to the Clinton brand. Minorities still have fond memories of America under a Clinton presidency. They feel it's a safe choice, especially now that Hillary is suddenly sounding so Liberal talking about Voting Rights, Racism, & income inequality.
Those of us who love Bernie believe that his message, his passion, and his political record are so strong and genuine that Hillary should be worried about Bernie's momentum. But actually, Hillary will continue to hold a significant advantage in 3 Key areas during most of this Primary campaign: Money, Minority appeal, and Name recognition. For obvious reasons, Obama was able to overtake Hillary in 2 of these 3 areas. I doubt Bernie will catch Hillary in fundraising or name recognition, but if he can find ways to reach out Directly to Minority voters, he won't have to. We can't expect that the debates alone will shift Minority voters from Hillary to Bernie. It's also not wise for his campaign to expect that his speeches, delivered to mostly white crowds, will resonate with minorities enough to bring them to his side. Bernie has to go on Several media outlets and give multiple interviews to Hispanic & Black hosts/personalities. He should be doing that NOW to ensure that the his minority support is Large enough in time for Super Tuesday because he will not beat Hillary without it.

[Autumn]

9. Your concern has been noted. Bernie is doing just fine with minorities see Arizona and Texas

The white crowd shit is so... last Friday. Check your memos.

[MightyMax]

30. I did see Arizona & Texas...didn't see many minorities

Find me one article or picture about the Arizona & Texas rally that shows "Bernie is doing just fine with minorities".
By the way, what does "just fine" mean? That you can pick out a few Black or Brown faces in between the hundreds or thousands of white supporters in the crowd? I can do the same for most of the GOP candidates.
Don't forget, Hillary already has a large minority following thanks to her last name. She doesn't even have to try hard to gain their support.
Bernie on the other hand...well, show me.

[Tommymac]

37. You aren't concerned that you are fishing in Bernie's Group are you...

Your talking points are showing btw.

[merrily]

56. You are mistaken about not needing to win support. Incarceration, the 2008 primary,

pandering, Arkansas's Confederate Flag Day, trust issues, etc. Yes, Toni Morrison call Bill the First Black President, but her explanation in 2008 of why she did that is not flattering to Bubba. Not to mention ending welfare as we know it, triangulation and lobbying hard for the Financial Services Act of 1996 and the Commodities Modernization Act of 2000, which set things up for an economic crash. Sure, those things affected everyone, but poor people most and poor members of minorities most of all. So, I am not sure why you think the last name is a clincher among minorities. I look white and I have problems with those things. (I sure don't think it's okay for whites to be okay with racism because it doesn't hurt them and in fact helps them.)

BTW, you know that some campaigns make sure certain types of faces are in camera range, even if they have to pay. Yes, Trump was outed for paying people, but it's been done for years, just not as last minute and clumsily as he did it, so it doesn't hit the papers the next day, if ever. My personal opinion is that that is a racist practice, too, though, in the scheme of all thing racist, certainly not the most egregious.

[rhett o rick]

76. It's your accusation. I think it's up to you to prove that Sen Sanders

doesn't have the support of minorities. Looking at crowd pictures isn't real definitive. Maybe if you had similar crowd pictures for other candidates to use for comparison. Otherwise, your accusation is hollow.

[rhett o rick]

77. I wonder if MIRT has an eye on that poster. Just wondering. nm

[Autumn]

82. He's been blocked. How's everything going?

It's been crazy here.

[MNBrewer]

38. This member of the GAY minority has no such "fond memories" of the Clinton years

[billhicks76]

48. I Love Seeing The Self-Entitled Whine

The Clintons are spoiled and bratty. They are surrogate for the Bush Family and their designs on society. It was that way in the 90s too as Bill held the status quo until another Bush could be inserted to accelerate the downfall again. The Clintons always SERVED the Bushes. Clinton re regulated the telecoms, the banks and tried to get a Patriot Act passed. Those that argue and fight between the lower ranks on both sides can be thorns but at the top there is one party...the War Party. So what if the stock market did well then.

[hifiguy]

75. A frightening truth that only time

and history have been able to clarify. No more Clintons and no more Bushes!

[billhicks76]

79. I Know Right?

Seems like a no brainer. And surrendering the anti-nepotism advantage over Jeb(who will be selected without a doubt...the crazies like trump are jockeying only to position Jeb as the reasonable candidate) is ludicrous. Do not nominate Clinton.

[merrily]

90. He did more than hold the status quo. Poppy never got to pass NAFTA. Bill finished it up

for him. And then, ending "welfare as we know it," repeal of Glass Steagall, the Commodities Modernization Act, the Telecommunications Act and DOMA and DADT. Poppy was like "I hate Bubba. He made me look bad to the Koch brothers."

I didn't know about the Patriot Act. He did start "extraordination rendition" to Syria and other places, though, also known as offshoring torture.

[billhicks76]

105. Omnibus Crime Bill

He ramped up the Drug War. And then he tried to have many of the provisions of the Patriot Act enacted after Oklahoma City.

[merrily]

106. Thank you .I always leave out a few POS bills that got passed then.

[Fearless]

51. Amen.

[jwirr]

5. Thank you Manny. I definitely know which phase we are in. The fight.

[Hydra]

6. Another good post Manny

We need to be passing popcorn around- the level of audacity is just going to get better(worse?)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

42. WORSE.

Sheshe's hidden OP of Spamdan's spew comes to mind... Sanders, racism, Minuteman Militia. It was a beaut. And just a warm-up...

[NealK]

57. I believe that I missed that.

But Sheshe is same old same old so I can guess a good part of what happened.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

83. Yep. And DU shut it down...

after someone alerted. Though we can still see the headline, or at least part of it:

Bernie Sanders and the Minuteman Militia: "Progressive Hero" Voted to Protect Racist Vigilante Borde

That shit will backfire on them, no question.

[merrily]

62. I wish I knew it could have been as easy as alerting!

I debated that shit with another poster for many posts on a thread about --wait for it---Elizabeth and Bernie reinstating Glass Steagall.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=461506

The poster actually claimed that it was on topic with the thread because the thread was about Bernie and the poster had seen a Latina post and just had to alert her about Bernie's allegedly dastardly vote. The poster did not cite a source for the slurs, only a source for her link to the vote, that source being Sanchez, who is seeking Boxer's seat. (If you recall, another slur about Bernie and immigration that was posted on DU came from Gutierrez, who is seeking Rahm's seat; and that, too, was thoroughly refuted on more than one thread.)

I googled and the peoplesview.net was the only source that came up for that garbage.

Once I found the source and started reading, I recognized other things that had been posted at DU that had I thought odd and/or foolish.

So, I posted in here asking about it. Turned out it's the blog of a poster who has been banned from DU at least twice and from Kos multiple times.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128027269

And that, they try to use to smear Bernie.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

85. Ha. Well, you take your chances...

and she lost with that one.

Another vile blogger to watch is immasmartypants (Nancy LeTourneau). This chick is a former conservative Christian fundie, but now a "pragmatic progressive" occasionally trotted out at DU to bash liberals (make that lily-white liberals!) while pushing the woodchuck agenda. Her latest offering was to lecture white liberals about #BLM. Trust me, the LAST thing I need in this world is to be lectured on racial issues by a former conservative fundie. Plus, her writing sucks.

[merrily]

87. While that post was getting hidden for being crap, I was arguing over the same post,

being told I can't deal with facts.


The only facts in the whole piece was that Sanders voted yes on a one sentence amendment and, at some later time, two people were killed.

There used to be a poster call miss smarty pants or something like that. Her posts were funny. Haven't seen him or her in a while. Haven't seen imasmartypants at all, but thanks for the heads up.

[jalan48]

7. Well said Manny-thanks!

[Zorra]

8. Sandernistas! Que buena! Me gusta muy mucho, Manuel.

[azmom]

26. A mi tambien

[rocktivity]

10. "Operation Butter The Bern," I'm calling it

This just a replay of what was tried on Obama with "his" Rev. Wright. And it will have the same results.


rocktivity

[Scootaloo]

14. Are you having a good time, heaven05?

[marym625]

16. I'm sorry Heaven

But I disagree. Just the ACA provision alone has helped hundreds of thousands of people across the country that can't afford medical, dental and vision care

Is there something in particular you are talking about? Just a heads up, I'm not getting into the NN stuff with anyone.

[Autumn]

25. You might want to delete your "apology" also

[Autumn]

20. This group is for supporters of Bernie. Your post is out of line. Delete it please

[aspirant]

12. Thanks, Coach

Put me in Coach, I'm ready to play.

[Scootaloo]

13. Or as I have termed it, "BERNGHAZI! BERNGHAZI! BERNGHAZI!"

[MannyGoldstein]

34. !!!

[Ed Suspicious]

44. Perfect.

[beam me up scottie]

52. You should get some kind of award for that.

I'd give you the internet but I've been told it's not mine.

[merrily]

102. Did Al Gore call you?

[beam me up scottie]

104. He did!

He said he'd rec this thread if he was a member and to say hi to everyone.

And the internet will be shipped out once it's engraved.

[WillyT]

15. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[R. P. McMurphy]

17. Wise counsel.

Thanks Manny. I shall not take the bait.

[JDPriestly]

18. K&R. Manny, you said it all. Thanks.

[daleanime]

19. I just took a 24 hour break....

didn't help much. I take an day or two and see it that does it.

Thank you.

[Kevin from WI]

21. Thanks Manny

I get discouraged from time to time. Luckily I have friends in the fight like you to snap me out of it.

July 29th is right around the corner, and we got work ahead of us.

[merrily]

89. BOOM!

[jeff47]

22. Pedantic: Gandhi didn't actually say that.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Disputed

(And I'm kinda surprised no one has attacked based on that yet. But the night is young)

ETA: Ahhhh, Sanders group. That's why there's no attack.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Which is why I wrote

"is said to have said"

Great quote, whoever invented it!

[zentrum]

27. Thanks! Go Bernie!

[lordsummerisle]

28. K&R n/t

[SoapBox]

29. Thank you Manny.

I, like so many others, needed this.

Thank you again.

[London Lover Man]

31. Thanks for the kickass message.

You just inspired me to drop another $15 in Bernie's bucket.

Thanks. And yes, we'll win this thing, dammit!

[murray hill farm]

33. berniesanders.com

If you go to the site and enter your zip code, it will show you a list of gatherings, meetings, events, support group house parties, etc. for Bernie in your immediate area. Or you can start your own. It is a good site.

[Tashca]

35. You are exactly right!

Patience is a virtue.

Reporting from Iowa: We had our first organizational meeting last night. I've been letting it soak in for a few hours. I've been in involved in many campaigns. Bernie says this will be very different.....he's right.
Bernie says this is about a revolution.......he is right.
Bernie says this is not about him, it is about us.........he is right.

While we lay a new foundation for the future........others will desperately try to hold on to the old one. Change can be scary. I understand their fear.

I can hardly wait until the 29th.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Don't you know we should avoid right-wing criticism at all costs???

It's the only way to get booked on Sunday Talk.

[merrily]

88. He used to annoy me in 2008 when he undermined Obama.

Since then, he's been up Joe Scarborough's butt

Former chair of the DLC, so probably tight with the Clintons.

And, if Obama 2008 was too left for him, I'm sure he wuves him some Bernie.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

91. I'm sure he'll be invited to speak for all black people soon about Bernie.

[merrily]

93. Or Cory Booker, who, while supposedly spokesperson for the 2012 Obana campaign,

struck out against Obama for speaking too negatively about Wall Street.

The campaign relieved him of his duties for a couple of weeks. When he returned to TV, he had nothing else to say about his disagreeements with Obama. After all, he was aiming for Lautenberg's seat at the time.

We all benefit when Democrats punch left.

[nikto]

39. Bernie can't match Hillary's Friends ...

Last edited Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Thank God.

[A Simple Game]

64. Oh come on, you know I like the one with Kissinger the best! n/t

[hifiguy]

80. Here ya go.

The "presumptive" nominee with a war criminal she described in print as a "defender of human rights." I have noticed that the Clintonistas avoid that little fact as if it were a plague rat. But it is the truth.

I find it fascinating and revealing that she CHOOSES to associate with some of the worst people currently treading the planet. Whom you choose to associate with reveals much about your character.





If that little huggums-fest doesn't make you vomit you have no brains or conscience.

[A Simple Game]

84. Thanks, every time I see that first one I swear she is going to put a lip lock on him. n/t

[Thespian2]

40. Fact is...

Manny is completely correct in his assessment of Bernie...I am sure many rich, right-wing assholes are spending great deals of money trying to find a way to attack Bernie...They have only one way, thanks to his remarkable record throughout his life, call him a socialist...If that's all they got...Whoopie Doodle!

GO, BERNIE!!!

[Paka]

41. So right there.

He can handle what they throw at him and he wants our help and will listen to us. Good advice to drop the hand wringing.

We. Will. Win.

[beam me up scottie]

43. Thank you, Manny.

Needed that today.

[chknltl]

45. I've found a magic DU stress reliever!

Its called the I G N O R E tab.....the Ignore tab.

I've tested this out by placing a mere 6 individuals on ignore until after the primaries and DU has become a much much nicer place! I remember the rough rides and tragic losses we've suffered in previous primaries, I sincerely hope that those 6 I've placed on ignore will still be here when I unblock them once we have a nominee, ((Bernie)), locked in.

So my advice to all of my fellow DUers, regardless of who you support, place those who you find annoying on ignore until after the primaries and DU will become an undistracted lean clean fightin' for your candidate machine!

[historylovr]

72. I call mine my Mr. Darcy list.

And it works wonders. It does make threads interesting to decipher sometimes, but I don't have time in my life for people who live to give trouble. Hell, when Goodreads and Dear Author posters are more pleasant to deal with, and more honest in their intentions, something is very wrong.

[merrily]

97. I resisted using ignore for years, on every board on which I posted, but I get resistance is futile.

[fbc]

46. I concur.

[Fearless]

49. It's Fox News Syndrome

When you've got nothing, make up controversies and then run with them...

[azurnoir]

50. K&R thank you

[merrily]

55. I have to make some exclusons.

First exclusion is black twitter. I don't tweet and I don't see any tweets that don't get posted on a board where I read. So, nothing I say applies to black twitter.

Second exclusion is that I think some posts on this board, including in this group, do not seem to take into account what it must be like to be an African American mom or dad, especially one living somewhere like Ferguson. I cannot imagine. It does not matter if your child is 2 or 72. It's still your child. Black Lives Matter. period.

So, yes, there are legit complaints as well as ones whose motives and sincerity I do not trust AT ALL. But, I've chosen my candidate. Unless something heinous, like things I hate even typing, comes out, I will not be changing my mind. I plan to be on line to vote bright and early on primary day.

[Jester Messiah]

58. Facts and reality are barely making a dent.

Especially when people continue to commit the fallacy of argumentum ad melanin.

[hifiguy]

81. I have been around DU for ten years

and have never seen such mass derangement. And it was all started by two Clintonistas who shall remain nameless but who are known by all here.

Not even the Spider Woman cover thread - all 600 posts of it, and it is well worth googling and reading for the laffs alone - was quite as divorced from reality as this.

[merrily]

92. I prefer the tHillarities or the Hillarious to the Clintonistas.

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 02:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Then again, I like laughing more than violence and, anyway, Hillary is not really a revolutionary, even if she plays one on TV.

[Dawgs]

59. Tell that Kerry when he was swift boated.

Didn't turn out so great for him, did it?

[merrily]

94. "You'd better stop that Dawging around." No Dawgs allowed in the Bernie Sanders Group.

Enjoy some classic doo wap.

You're welcome.

[eridani]

100. In 2004. Facebook = 2006. YouTube = 2005. Twitter = 2005

iPhones and Androids = 2007 and 2007. Unlike Kerry (and Dean with the Scream) we have tools for fighting back.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

60. Thank you, Doctor Goldstein!

[Feeling the Bern]

61. Bernie all the way!

[stupidicus]

63. I've long had a figurative one around their necks

I've noted many times here how similar their tactics are, and that's pretty much dictated by the dishonesty element they share with their rightwing cousins.

"Ludicrous nonsense" is the currency of both that buys them a temporary respite from the unpalatable realities they are confronted with.

It is certainly my hope that Bernie will show how truly big a lie the myth that we're a "center/right" country really is.

[merrily]

96. Polls have already proven that we are NOT a center right country.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777036

However, speaking of currency, we are a country in which money "doesn't talk, it screams." And propagandizes.

See also: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=280925

"Ludicrous nonsense" is the currency of both

Please see http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=28935

[raouldukelives]

65. The political attack apparatus in this country is a work of art.

Whatever you desire can come to fruition. All you need is stacks of money and you can find millions who care not what they accomplish, just that they and those around them profit.

[99th_Monkey]

66. Thank you Manny - I needed to hear that this morning.

It's been a rough few days since the NN/BLM dustup.

Your op is spot on. This too will pass. And Bernie's campaign
will be stronger for it.

[merrily]

95. Sanders has a lot of experience and his compass is always true.

No finger in the wind. Just always helping the moral arc of the universe bend toward justice any way he can.

[99th_Monkey]

99. I share that believe as well

but thanks for the reminder. I appreciate it.

[merrily]

101. Glad it was useful to you. Supporting Bernie is the reason for this Group and supporting each

other in supporting Bernie is am important function of this Group.

And it seemed you could have used some support right now.



We need to pick each other up when we're down.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

67. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win

[Alkene]

68. +1 nt

[robertpaulsen]

69. Elitist NY Times is still in the "ignore" stage.

Why Is the NY Times Basically Doing a Blackout on Bernie Sanders?

Love that word 'Sandernistas.' Yours?

[MannyGoldstein]

86. True, but that's about the best they can do

and still maintain a fig leaf.

'Sandernistas' belongs to everyone, but I might have been the first to use it.

Warning: graphic, but well done:

[robertpaulsen]

112. Excellent video!

I'm not sure if you've already read this, but thought you might like it:

42 Years Later, Officers Charged for Murder of Defiant Chilean Folk Singer

[RoccoR5955]

70. Not We. Will. Win....

but WE SHALL WIN!

I hate to be pedantic, but:

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/1026513/8913.htm


Any way, shall is a stronger word than will afaic.

[merrily]

98. Pete Seeger made that change in We Will Overcome for that very reason.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/pete-seeger-tells-the-story-behind-we-shall-overcome.html

[RoccoR5955]

107. Yup, I know that.

Which is why I put it there. Glad to see that someone else knows about these things.
I knew Pete and Toshi (his wife) for 30 years, and they were like a second set of parents to me.

[merrily]

108. Awww. How nice for you. I saw a PBS program about Seeger and fell in love with both of them.

PBS programs about the folk movement and other folk singers also featured him.

He served in WWII and returned to be grilled by the House Un-American Activities Committee and blacklists.

If there is a heaven and hell, Seeger is now in heaven, trying to persuade God to give J. Edgar Hoover a break from hell.

That is how different those two men were.

[RoccoR5955]

109. Not only that

But Seeger was the first person to plead the FIRST Amendment at HUAC. Most others pled the fifth.

[merrily]

110. I'd have to google to know when "freedom of association," and "freedom to remain silent" were held

to be part of the First Amendment vs. when Seeger was skewered questioned by HUAC, but that was pretty advanced thinking for the day.

Thing is, though, the Fifth Amendment gives an express, specific right to refuse to answer questions while the First Amendment does not. Interesting, though. Thanks.

[bvar22]

71. DURec for Sanders & The Sandernistas

....& Manny & the protected group for Bernie!

[Admiral Loinpresser]

73. KnR! n/t

[hifiguy]

74. You said a mouthful, Manny.

The panic is descending into absurdity on the opposing side.

Go Bernie!!!

[merrily]

103. ......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=28935

[hifiguy]

111. LOL