Be careful when responding to Hillary supporters' posts.

[JDPriestly]

Every once in a while, someone on DU loses his/her cool and either leaves after getting posts removed or is "evicted" from DU.

Be careful. We don't want to, and we don't need to lose any Sanders supporters from DU.

Watch out.


There are a few Hillary supporters who are intentionally trying to rile up Sanders supporter, trying to pick personal arguments, trying to insult us, trying to belittle us, trying to "thin our ranks."

Let's apply a savvy strategy to keep our voices heard on DU.

Some basics:

1. Obviously, watch your language. No swear words. Don't insult either Hillary or her supporters. Don't label people. Don't say people are stupid or insulting or bad or worse. You can say that an idea is bad. You can say that actions are bad. But don't call people out, even people who aren't on DU.

2. Avoid using the word "YOU" as much as possible. Use the passive voice. Don't use the word "you." I can't say that often enough. Just review posts and make sure you delete the word. Don't say anything to or about any DUer personally. That's the most important strategy you can employ to stay on DU.

3. Talk about issues as much as possible. Try to say something positive about Bernie in every reply to every post from a Hillary supporter. Even if you say something negative about Hillary in a post, use every opportunity to post to say something positive about Bernie. That has two effects. First of all, it shifts the conversation to what a great candidate Bernie is. Second, it puts you in a good, positive mood and you are less likely to get into trap of exchanging insults.

There are a couple of Hillary "supporters" who have a nearly professional ability to trap people into losing focus from the pro-Bernie to the exchange of personal insults. One of them is very adept at avoiding the kinds of insults that are obviously personal and instead appearing to talk generally. A lot of Bernie supporters get caught in the trap. Watch out.

3. Keep cool. Re-read posts. (I need to do this too.) Yes. Censor yourself. Bernie is doing well. He is remaining positive. We need to remain positive too. There is utterly nothing to get angry about.

We will soon be going out and talking to voters. When we do, please keep my tips in mind. I've done a lot of tabling and talking to all kinds of voters. Win people's hearts. Smile and be kind. Exchanging personal insults will only make it harder for Hillary voters to become Bernie voters in the general election.

This is about winning.

We need you on DU. Stay with us. Don't let the Hillary folks throw you off the Bernie bus.

Thanks.

Hope I am not too condescending in this post, but I have a lot of experience with this. We all make mistakes. Don't get discouraged. We have justice on our side.l

[retrowire]

1. Got it!

Advice is good.

[rhett o rick]

89. We need more progressives helping out in MIRT and the Host's Forum. Just sayin'. nm

[billhicks76]

95. More Reasons Hillary Alienates Us

Her supporters are ridiculous, pathetic, desperate and petty the way they abuse the DU jury system.

[PosterChild]

96. Um, reread the good advice , ..

... given in the op. You may profit from it, and so might DU.

[JDPriestly]

116. Well at least you have a good sense of humor. That's a great start anyway.

[chknltl]

122. Oh! I get it! You aren't really a Bernie Sanders Supporter.

That's cool by me.

[billhicks76]

123. Ha. Where Did Deduce That?

I was an anyone but Hillary person because I want nothing to do with any politician that close to the Bush Family. The Clintons behave like their surrogates. I want nothing to do with the Bush dynasty of which Hillary belongs as she willingly received the rare title of "honorary family member" bestowed by Bush Sr and GW. A Clinton/ Bush election which Wall St and the Military have planned would be a farce, yes, but more of a final nail in the coffin of hope. I guess we all have to be very careful talking about Hillary. That says a lot right there. The question is the answer.

[chknltl]

126. Deduction was simple, response is difficult:

When Bernie Sanders was asked to make negative comments about Hillary Clinton he chose not to do so. He chose the high road. Here at DU many of us Sanders supporters also try to choose the high road. We try not to make broadbrushed attacks on Hillary Clinton supporters. Doing so only plays into the hands of the few who deliberately drive a huge wedge of angst between fellow DUers from both camps. Some DUers have pointed out that a few of these wedge drivers might not even be actual Democrats!

Arguably Hillary or Bernie will get the nomination. As a Sanders Supporter I am of course quite biased in my belief of which 'guy' will get that nomination but once this happens I look forward to as much DU support as possible for that candidate. Driving that wedge I spoke about not only makes for a messy silly season around DU it also makes things a bit difficult for the transition that must come. Worse, that wedge of angst can cost us valuable DUers, lost both to Granite Pizzas and through leaving DU all buttburned!

Believe it or not, there are quite a few DUers in both Hillary and Bernie camps that get this! Sadly, along the way when confronted with accusations that "Our side/Their side said nasty shit about "Their side/Our side", we all must hang our heads in shame because posts such as the one of yours I responded to prove the point!

Is it not better to remove the bullet of 'divide and conquer' from the weapons of our foes?

You've made it clear that you do not support Hillary Clinton, who you support is your business. I ask you please, for sanity's sake around here: consider my words. Better yet, support Senator Sanders by restating my words in your own and passing this philosophy along.

[billhicks76]

130. I Want To Like Her

It would be so much better if I trusted her but ignorance is bliss stopped working for me and I don't mean that to insult anyone. I truly wish she was who I want her to be and then take the White House. It's the Bush thing. And how convenient we can't call out Jeb on nepotism is she is the nominee. Why give up your biggest advantage and neutralize their biggest weakness? Wall St loves it.

[chknltl]

170. One DUer at a time, I still have hope for us.

Now I understand you better billhicks76. First let me get something critically important out of the way. I am no Hillary Clinton supporter, for me to even pretend to be one, for me to try to get you to even respect her would be an act of the gravest hypocrisy on my part. To any Clinton supporters who I hope read this, make no mistake about my motives: If Hillary Clinton gains the nomination the pain in my heart will be immeasurable but after some deep soul searching and a good talking too by (of all people), a Sanders Supporter who is not a DUer, you have my word that Hillary Clinton shall have my fullest support. Should she indeed get that nomination we will, WE MUST get her into the White House!

As I stated to you billhicks76 in an earlier response, there are those who deliberately drive a wedge of angst here at DU. I can see three possible motives for this. One motive stems from the fact that these particular 'wedge of angst drivers' are not Democrats, that they do what they do here at DU in order further sew 'divide and conquer' seeds within our ranks. Many Duers have pointed out that they have noticed such agents provocateur among us. What I see is the aftereffects and to my eyes their tactic has been quite successful! Their goal is to drive folks away from DU, every DUer that gets banned or leaves in disgust claiming that DU has gone too far around the bend for them is but another notch in the gun of these asshat agents.

The two other reasons that drive this wedge of angst at DU flow like water from the same stream: These DUers are victims. If you are from either Hillary's own campaign staff or merely a token supporter here at the Democratic Underground, by definition this place should be a welcome home for you... but it is easy to see that this is not the case. Clinton supporters are a distinct minority here at DU so why on earth do we, (who proudly label ourselves PROGRESSIVES), badger, push away; discriminate against; make snide comments about; name call; sling poo at; and etc and etc. a minority within our own group? You already know part of the answer: "They started it" but guess what "they" will be quick to say that "We started it" The unspoken truth of the matter is that both sides are REACTING to each other negatively and it spirals out of control into this Category 5 Shitstorm we see all about us now.

Please understand that I am not referring to the political or philosophical differences between candidates that are brought up here at DU. I am only referring to the character crap-attacks that gets attached. It is one thing to say that a candidate voted to authorize war, it is an entirely different thing to call that same candidate a war-monger!.

Who wins? Well it certainly isn't anyone on DU that calls themselves Democrat! ALL of us DU Democrats are the victims! What you are hearing, what you did with this very post I first commented on:"More Reasons Hillary Alienates Us"..."Her supporters are ridiculous, pathetic, desperate and petty the way they abuse the DU jury system." is the reaction of a victim and with those words you can only gain further reaction from the victims of your words. Do you see how that works? Do you see the dog chaising it's tail dance that you are on? Worse yet, those agents provocateurs I mentioned earlier not only gain wins from their own foul deeds, they gain substantially more wins from our deeds as well! WHOSE. SIDE. ARE. WE. ON???!!!


For me billhicks76, you have informed me much with this sentence:"I truly wish she was who I want her to be and then take the White House." I now know that you are not someone deliberately trying to shake the beehive. I take you at your word about your feelings when it comes to Hillary Clinton, I do not believe you to be a "double agent" working for the Clinton 'Camp' victimizing Hillary and her supporters with your posts in order to make us Sanders supporters look like the bad guys. No, I see you as a victim too now. I see in a latter response that you have had a post hidden. I came close to alerting on your first post myself but I chose snark instead to draw you out-to maybe see where your head was at. I am glad now that I did not alert on your post because I hope my words to you can prove more instructional. As you know, getting posts hidden leads to administrative censureship. You now know where my head is at on that matter. If you can start seeing these reactionary posts as cries of outrage from victimized DUers, perhaps it can go a long way to how you react to others here. I don't want to lose you too billhicks76, I don't want to lose any of us democrats. This is OUR home and together we can be a tremendous force in this upcoming election.
Good luck here billhicks76. I look forward to you becoming a respected contributor.

To any fellow DUers who ghosted through my words:Why did some hay-seed named chknltl have to point out the obvious here? As penance, please consider my words, perhaps turn them into your own and spread this advice through DU....or....we can continue on with the status quo Category 5 Shitstorm. I don't know about you but there are a lot of DUers I don't want to see leave us in anger or with fresh pizzas only to watch them reappear over on Discussionist telling tall tales about what ignorant assholes we are here at DU.

[billhicks76]

171. I Use Hyperbole

But it has it's place. I grew up in a conservative, Republican of the elitist sort. My family had very strong connections to people like Gov Harriman, Middle East rulers, Bush Sr etc. I woke up in my late teens because I learned to think critically and question the provided answers. It took work and courage to challenge my predetermined belief system. I wish people who grew up liberal could do the same. And mostly to reassure them they are on the right track. But many are naive and don't comprehend how bad the corruption and criminal dealing goes. We have been hoodwinked and taken advantage of. Most of what you see personifying politicians and the points of view they convey is fake. They are totally different in private and they laugh at the "useless eaters" that think they are accomplishing anything. This has angered me beyond control. I cannot believe some people on DU didn't recognize the use of sock puppet profiles used by military contractors that kept inserting themselves into our NSA debate. The LA Times, NYT, New Yorker and many others documented this practice being used inside the USA. Only fools made the argument that the government assured them these tactics were only used abroad. Just like militarization of the police these things were duel use and purposely reigned to be used on the American People as information flowed during the internet age and people became harder to control. Spying just abroad? Are you joking? The biggest division at NSA, the special operations division, spends all it's time tapping phones and GPS for the DEA to pull over cars all across the country by the hundreds of thousands. My point is people find it easier and more comfortable to believe the lies. I'm not a Hillary hater like this dimwit republicans. I don't like her because I know she colludes with their leaders...with the Bush family. And it's extremely damaging to our country. Of course I want to like her...I want a liberal, female president...ASAP. I don't trust anyone who ever worked for Bush Sr and that's what it comes down to. Sure "war monger" is hyperbolic but you must understand war is impersonal. Her decisions directly killed hundreds of thousands of children. War is as evil as it gets and those in high places that trade in human misery shouldn't be allowed to get away with it simply because they are privileged or charismatic.

[7962]

163. Yes, I saw one of you posts hidden the other day & it was RIDICULOUS.

[n2doc]

2. Good advice. One more, don't try/expect to change minds

Changing the preference of another person through DU is nearly impossible, I feel. Too many of us fall into the trap of "If I just make one more argument, they will see the light". Doesn't happen. In the real world it can happen, and that is where all of us should be trying our best.

Also, be aware of the shit stirrers, and don't respond to them. Period. No matter how provocative they are or how much they 'misunderstand' your post. You will be much happier.

In all fairness, this all applies to HRC supporters responding to Sanders supporters, and so on. It would be nice if we could have a nice civil discussion of the issues, but where that boundary is between civil and troll depends on the individual, so we will never all agree.

[Demeter]

18. As reality asserts itself, the reasonable minds will change

but it won't happen just on say-so.

[rhett o rick]

45. When attacked simply ask them about issues. That always scares them off. nm

[RichVRichV]

80. You're always changing minds.

It's just rarely the person you debate.


We often forget that for every loud opinionated poster here there are hundreds of lurkers. People who may not have a strong enough opinion to wade into the site with their own opinions. I was like this for years.


Every time I enter a debate with someone I try to bring the most reasoned, logical, factual view to the debate. I'm not trying to change the views of that person. Instead I'm presenting my views to the audience reading.


The beauty of written text is I can't be shouted down. Not only can I respond at my own rate, people read at their own rate. So as long as what I put to words resonates with the reader there is no tactic that can drown out my words.


Go in with the objective of changing minds other than those arguing with you and it's much less frustrating.

[stillwaiting]

83. That is very true, and it's good to keep focus on this as we present our political arguments. nt

[tjl148]

98. +1

[JDPriestly]

143. Thank you. Excellent post. This is about ideas, not personal vendettas.

Goes for Hillary supporters too, but I do not dare to scold them because they will take it personally.

[sabrina 1]

3. One more, don't kick anti-Bernie threads. Ignore them and post your own positive Bernie thread.

We know they are only talking points being spread around, mostly containing false propaganda, so why kick them when there is so much GOOD material on Bernie every single day?

They would sink like rocks if people just passed them by.

[artislife]

13. ^^^this.

There are those posters who make at least 5 OPs a week. Ignore those posters.

I trash threads all the time. It is no use to post anything about BLM if you have Bernie banners. Even if you are trying to post that you are not a racist toad. This site, we have to let those threads go. Look at who creates the OPs, there are a lot of new names with lots of posts, I can only assume they were put in time out. This means they are looking for pay back. I don't go into any group threads but infrequently to read only. I have posted once in the AA group to assure PoC from another PoC that going to a Bernie rally isn't dangerous. Silly of me, because no one ever comments on a post that doesn't fit the agenda.


In customer service training, I was taught never to match the emotion, be flat.

I did get caught in a net by a person I really should have alerted, but my own personal goal is never to alert. Trash the thread. Read their posts in funny accents, imagine them in their underwear, imagine a lot of things...it helps. Humor is key.

[sabrina 1]

26. Lol, 'read their posts in funny accents, imagine them in their underwear' ~

The drummed up 'controversy' is just that, a talking point aimed at one of Bernie's strengths, his lifelong dedication to Civil Rights, his history during the Civil Rights Movement, where was Hillary btw, his excellent ability to judge the consequences of legislation way into the future, all traits with the record to prove them, that makes the Status Que candidates look very, very bad.

It is a Rovian tactic, hoping to draw in honest people to keep it going. It is OVER, minorities ARE learning about Bernie for themselves regardless of the efforts to smear him BEFORE that happens.

And the more who learn about him, the more I see comments all over Social Media like this: 'wow, this guy has been our ally for decades'.

There is no need to defend Bernie, so I don't, his record and his votes speak for themselves, not so with the status quo candidates.

[emsimon33]

42. Just ignore them is the best advice.

They do not seem to want dialog. They just seem want a fight. It is too bad, too, as their cause is a significant one and much overdue.

[cui bono]

25. Good point!

Thanks.

[rhett o rick]

46. Great point. nm

[MNBrewer]

55. Ignore, for sure.

Block is your friend.

[SoapBox]

4. Stay in the Bernie Group!

It's warm and fuzzy!

[LovingA2andMI]

5. Excellent Advice....

Thank you for the information.

[zeemike]

6. Very good advice.

There are some people you can never convince so don't waste your time trying.
And if you must then stick to the issues and do so in a calm manner.
Let them do the freak out thing.

[Dont call me Shirley]

7. Great advice, JD!

[longship]

8. Happy to support this.

Especially as it from one of the more reasonable DUers.

R&

[Lunabell]

9. I'm not going to insult any Democrat.

Bernie isn't a sure thing for the nomination, but I damned sure would never vote for a rethuglican. HRC will get my full support if she is the nominee. I'm not going to bash her or fall for the trolls who want to ruin any chance she has. We MUST keep the white house!!!!

[merrily]

10. More general, more long-term, tips.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778884

[artislife]

15. Good to read! TY

[merrily]

21. You're very welcome.

[arcane1]

11. Perfectly said!

[Enthusiast]

12. Good advice. I'll try to control myself....

[daleanime]

14. Thanks....

[Demeter]

16. Better yet, Ignore them assiduously

Let them learn by experience, as we all did, just what kind of candidate they are supporting.

Experience is a dear teacher, but some will learn no other way....

[JDPriestly]

145. Thanks. Also good advice.

[hifiguy]

155. Yep. Treat them as you would treat trolls,

whom a number of them greatly resemble.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

17. EXCELLENT advice!

One tactic that I generally use, and to good effect: I walk away, and let the provocative poster have the last word.

Don't get ensnared.

It's hard to not respond, especially at first, but it does get easier with practice.

I've had no posts hidden nor any time outs because I walk away...

Well, so far, anyway!

[passiveporcupine]

49. When you are in a conversation with someone who just wants a fight

One tactic that I generally use, and to good effect: I walk away, and let the provocative poster have the last word.

This is the only answer, because they will never stop. It's also very effective. It shuts them up.

[Generic Other]

141. Haha that's me

old "provocative." Always getting the last word. I need to stop that!!

[glowing]

73. Or respond like you want to, just don't post it!

[JDPriestly]

147. Oh, the many posts I have self-deleted before posting. Also, very good advice.

There is an arrow that points to the previous post at the top of my computer. I use that quite often. Sometimes i vent and then re-read and decide that my post is not worth causing someone else a lot of pain and making DU an angrier place.

It is, again, a matter of values. We really should all try to control ourselves so that we don't add to the amount of frustration and anger in the world. There is enough already without our adding to it. Why make the day worse for another DUer?

That does not mean walking away from an argument. It means responding with information, not with emotion. Respond with ideas, not with Hmmmphs. DU is about sharing and exchanging ideas, not about insulting each other.

[rhett o rick]

88. And excellent advice yourself. It's not easy but I will try harder.

I also think a good way is to confront them with issues. They hate that. Keep it about issues and not snark.

[sabrina 1]

144. Yes, keep the focus on the issues. Posting where candidates stand on issues is not bashing.

[rhett o rick]

154. I will try. nm

[LuvNewcastle]

99. I do the same thing, and I very rarely

get a post hidden. It's crazy to let yourself get all worked up over what some stranger says on a message board, anyway. There are plenty of nice people to talk to on DU. No need to let yourself get upset by a comment from some stupid troll.

[JDPriestly]

146. You are one of the most loved DUers, CaliforniaPeggy, just because you know how to diffuse

anger, how to walk away from it with dignity. Thanks for setting the example.

[hifiguy]

157. +1

[CaliforniaPeggy]

164. What a lovely thing for you to say, my dear JDPriestly...thank you!

There are some advantages to getting old.......a bit of wisdom is one of them.

[silverweb]

19. Bernie himself is our example.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]WWBD? Stick to the issues, avoid personal remarks, deflect provocation, and get back to the issues.

Go, Bernie!

[JDPriestly]

148. Yes!

[silverweb]

150. :)

[Omaha Steve]

20. There are wolves

Trolls with multiple ID's fighting with themselves to make Dem's look bad in general.

OS

[hifiguy]

161. One of the more notable anti-Bernie individuals was even caught in the act of

practicing multipie-sock-puppetry. This person was one of the handful who started slinging "Bernie only care about white males" horseshit a few days before he even declared.

Zorra, IIRC, even posted that person's transparency information SHOWING the pinch for sock-puppetry.

Yet that person was allowed to stay and continue stirring shit and posting lies.

Not long ago, sock-puppetry was punished with an irrevocable permanent tombstone.

Some animals are, it is clear, much more equal than others.

[Fairgo]

22. Timely advice

Not a massive poster, so I do have the low profile going for me. Can't say that my strategy is time tested, but I will offer an argument once, and only respond when
Presented with a counter of substance, and then only to the substance. I find that I am thus impervious to the "I know you are but what am I?" gambit. I also find that only sticks and stones actually inflict damage to my person.

[JDPriestly]

48. Good strategy.

[Autumn]

23. Great advice. This has been alerted as Meta but I am not inclined to lock it

since it is not disruptive Meta.

[Puglover]

28. The alerter

referred to the OP as a "troll".

I have alerted admin. This is just as inappropriate as using a jury to name call.

[smokey nj]

30. That was the 1st SOP alert, the second one called this a Meta post and asked for it to be locked and

re-posted in the Bernie Sanders forum. I sent alert abuse notifications on both alerts.

[JDPriestly]

51. This IS posted in the Bernie Sanders group. That's what it says on my DU page.

[smokey nj]

54. I know. I know.

I've sent alert abuse notifications on all the SOP alerts (a third was received, again one sent by a person blocked from the group long ago) to the administrators.

[SoapBox]

85. Well...what the hell?

Sheesh...I'm getting about 2 jury request a day...at least.

It's crazy out there.

[hootinholler]

34. It went to a jury too?

Please share the results.

[smokey nj]

36. No jury as far as I know - just SOP alerts sent by

two people who were blocked from posting in this group long ago.

[LovingA2andMI]

53. Lawd Bejeebus...

What in the world could be wrong with this Post by the OP?

Goodness, maybe...just maybe it is time for DU to step in a bit more here to review what should and should not go to a Jury, what should and should not be referred as a Meta post, and the rules of engagement going forward.

This is becoming a bit ridiculous and will drive folks away from the site.

[Paka]

24. Excellent advice.

We need to be reminded often to keep cool. Follow Bernie's example and simply state the issues.

I've been recruiting my European friends to talk up Bernie whenever they meet Americans traveling in their country. I think it can have a very positive effect when they see how much the rest of the world admires him. I know that made a big difference with Obama.

[JDPriestly]

149. Bernie is suggesting that we shift a bit toward a European economic model.

It would be interesting to get some input from Europeans on DU about how that model works for them. I lived in Europe for some years and liked the rather modest but effective social net that the tax money pays for there. I'd love to hear how it is now.

[cui bono]

27. I'm sorry but why should I listen to a Warren supporter telling Bernie supporters how to post?

Just kidding!

Excellent advice from someone I consider to be the most level-headed poster on DU.

[gregcrawford]

29. My question is...

... WHY? Why do people pull such underhanded stunts? When they get down in the gutter that spawned the likes of James O'Keefe, they emerge smelling just like him. Do they have so little faith in their preferred candidate that they feel the need to cheat? Or do they just view it as an opportunity to cheat? All of these antics are very telling. People usually support a candidate in whom they can see a bit of themselves. Following this train of thought to its logical conclusion... Well, I think you catch my drift.

Bernie is one of my senators, and I've been following him since he first ran for mayor of Burlington 35 years ago. He has my complete support, as will whichever candidate comes out on top. But I will never stoop so low as those described in this OP, and I HAVE encountered a couple of them. Even biting my digital tongue hurts!

[Moonwalk]

59. WHY do you assume that people ARE pulling underhanded sunts? Why....

...are Bernie supporters losing their cool the fault of Hilary supporters rather than their own fault?

I see post after post from Bernie supporters that read "Hilary is awful!" --and you know that's going to draw Hilary supporters in to defend her, right? So how is it that the Hilary people, responding to such are blamed for "luring in" Bernie supporters to a fight?

It's all well and good to accuse Hilary supporters of underhandedness. That lets Bernie supporters off the hook for their bad behavior.. IBut 've seen too much baiting of Hilary supporters in Bernie threads to take this at face value; I've seen a lot of Hilary supporters argue rationally and factually and even politely and be insulted--called names, pissed on.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to wail about the underhandedness of Hilary supporters--or even accuse them of such, as the OP of this thread did, when many such supporters haven't done any such thing. When many have been attacked simply for being Hilary supporters.

You can't blame all issues or problems caused by Bernie supporters on Hilary and Hilary supporters, much as you'd like to (for example: Hilary set BLM on Bernie!). If you do, then you've learned nothing and changed nothing about how you are going to be percieved by undecided voters, or Hilary voters who might otherwise change their mind about Bernie.

[gregcrawford]

65. I am not assuming anything.

I am stating a fact based on personal experience. At no point did I say ALL HRC supporters pull underhanded stunts, though a great many like to imply that all of Bernie's supporters do. I have yet to see a single instance of a Sanders supporter behaving badly, and, since Sanders is one of my senators, I've been following this quite closely. Unless, of course, refusing to be cowed by belligerent rhetoric constitutes "bad behavior."

Oh, and there's also the fact that such "stunts" were the whole point of the original OP. So there's that.

[JDPriestly]

66. Most Hillary supporters are civil.

I hope everybody on DU reads my post. It is so easy to get caught up in your emotions when someone jerks at your nose a bit.

I advise people to avoid using the word "you" whenever possible. That is precisely the kind of use of language that makes people feel that a conversation is a personal attack.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to wail about the underhandedness of Hilary supporters--or even accuse them of such, as the OP of this thread did, when many such supporters haven't done any such thing. When many have been attacked simply for being Hilary supporters.

You can't blame all issues or problems caused by Bernie supporters on Hilary and Hilary supporters, much as you'dI like to (for example: Hilary set BLM on Bernie!). If you do, then you've learned nothing and changed nothing about how you are going to be percieved by undecided voters, or Hilary voters who might otherwise change their mind about Bernie.]

Now, I know that language is not really directed to me personally. But the English "you" is a dangerous word. Some other languages distinguish between you meaning the person being spoken to, German Sie and Du, French vous and tu, for example and the general "you" meaning one (which we don't use), Mann in German and on in French. Unfortunately, we mostly only use the word "you." It's a good one to avoid on DU if you really don't want to engage people in pointless arguments.

Thanks for the great example of the use of the word "you" that I am advising people to avoid if possible.

And on edit, I am posting this in the Bernie group, but the advice applies in both directions as you point out. We all need to be more civil and stop cutting each other down with sloppy language and pointing fingers.

Thanks. Let's stick to issues.

I am a Bernie supporter, and it would be presumptive of me to go into the Hillary group and give advice on how to tone down the language so that we can all stay on DU. I think Hillary supporters would be offended, and besides, I have been banned from the Hillary group because I am a strong Bernie supporter.

[LovingA2andMI]

67. ........

[eridani]

92. No, you don't see posts saying "Hillary is awful" You do see posts saying--

--that raising so much money from banksters is awful, that voting for AUMF was awful, that her role in turning Libya into a chaotic shithole was awful, etc.

[JDPriestly]

152. The statements you cite

that raising so much money from banksters is awful, that voting for AUMF was awful, that her role in turning Libya into a chaotic shithole was awful, etc.

are about issues. In my book, that's OK.

If a Hillary supporter suggests that some of Bernie's proposals are pie in the sky, that is not a personal insult. It is a genuine, issue-related opinion.

If a Bernie supporter suggests that some of Hillary's votes and Bill's bills demonstrate bad judgment and poor understanding of the nation's problems (and I do post that often), that is about the issues, about things we should consider in this campaign.

What we want to avoid is attacks on each other..

And the way we respond when we read something unpleasant or critical of our own favorite candidate is the problem, not the post asking a legitimate question or pointing to the mistakes that our candidate may or may not have made, depending on our point of view.

It is sometimes very difficult to distinguish between a fact and an opinion, between an issue of substance and irrelevant personal criticism. The line is simply not always clear there. So we have to be able to check our own emotional responses and keep ourselves cool and calm and not be so certain that we are definitely right. We have to remember that the other person has the same right that we do to express themselves.

[cantbeserious]

31. Good Advice - Always Use The Third Person Passive Voice

eom

[Blue_In_AK]

32. This is excellent advice

that I'm trying hard to follow, not only here but elsewhere. I've even been trying to be civil to the Conservatives in the comments sections at various places - but, oh, boy, is it hard.

[Jarqui]

33. Interesting thread ...

I've never been supportive in an election of any Republican. I campaigned as a student for RFK. Supported MLK. Environment issues in the 60s. Won money for gays in college in a rights issue in the early '70s. Housing rights in '76, etc, etc, It's been a pretty long run. But now, I don't appear to fit in any more.

My favorite candidate by far for this primary is Bernie. I was a big Obama supporter, campaigned for him, still am a big supporter and going through that, I didn't care lots for Hillary - maybe left over some from when they competed against each other. I still don't. But if she wins, I'd take her over any Republican in a heartbeat - because of where she is on the issues compered to the GOP.

A month or so ago, before Bernie closed the gap some, I posted a comment something to the effect that I thought the gap was so large, it was going to be hard to overcome. Shortly afterwards, my posting privileges were revoked. No jury - never had one ever for my comments. I emailed to try to get an explanation for why but none came - my emails were ignored. I was dumbfounded .... and banned.

I guess, because I'm using my 1st amendment rights to point this out, I'll get banned again and this post deleted. Chalk up silencing one more supportive voice on a forum of all places to some bizarre version of "democracy!!"

But for those few who do get to read this, I can testify first hand from my own experience, the top post understates the issue. Through some odd sense of entitlement/intolerance, this site is taking out folks who are on your side at a time when you need all the help you can get. Those with so much in common and going in the same general direction should be able to get past their smaller differences and all be welcome to take a few more pulls on an oar.

I never even got to be a drama queen with "My panties are in a knot and I'm leaving" post anyway I fought for this stuff for 40-50+ years before DU.com showed up. I don't have to be a member here to continue to fight for what I believe in. It's weird when you have so much in common but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Sincere good luck and all the best to you all.

[uppityperson]

43. Hi, who were you before? I'd like to see what you are talking about.

[JDPriestly]

56. The same principles in my OP apply to Hillary supporters.

A lot of them have become overly excited and gotten locked out.

So I posted this for Bernie supporters, but it applies to everyone. Let's just keep our cool.

I think there may be at least one person who posts a lot who is very good at using the kind of techniques I discuss to keep out of trouble while goading others on, trying to anger others. IT looks like a bit of a professional attack at times.

Bernie does not have the money to hire people to cause trouble on websites, but it is possible that other candidates including Republicans do, so we need to remind ourselves that we may be falling for a trap when we lose our tempers.

Let's all, sincere Hillary and Bernie supporters, keep it cool. Let's don't be tricked by some professional troublemaker or, on the other hand, let's don't fall into an emotional tangle with someone over something that isn't worth it.

[classykaren]

129. Wow

[RoccoR5955]

35. It's okay when they do it to us though?!?!

Don't worry when they get personal. If they get personal it is clearly a violation, and gets ratted on.
Why can't we rat on them, just as we are ratting on us.
I mean they have the same failed memes, and when you tell them that it is a tired meme, and is already disproven, they just answer with their scripts.
This should also be a violation of TOS.

[emsimon33]

39. Just ignore them. We know the truth.

Or maybe we all have a pat answer/response for their "failed memes," such as "Been there, seen it, already disproved it. Let's move on."

[RoccoR5955]

40. I am not of the type to ignore things.

That's just my way.
Please don't ask me to "just ignore" them, because they do not go away, and keep spreading their false memes all over the place.
They need to be confronted.

[emsimon33]

44. But I don't want to see you alerted and then blackballed

They are not worth losing you!

[emsimon33]

37. Great advice but it isn't just the Hillary crowd

I have been serving on juries almost everyday and I can not believe the alerts that I have juried. I think most of us know who the stalkers and stalking crowd are. I just wish when we see their names on a post that we would simply refrain from posting. Perhaps after awhile, their posts would go ignored except by their fellow stalkers.

[JDPriestly]

57. Everybody needs to take a deep breath and count to ten. Arguments are great, but don't make

it personal.

I posted this on the Bernie group because I am a Bernie supporter and don't want to be giving advice that might be unwelcome to Hillary supporters. My words might be misunderstood in that context.

But my advice and that of others who posted on this thread is good for all of us. I just don't want to be bossing Hillary DUers around. That would get me into a big problem, and perhaps rightfully so.

But everyone can read my OP and take it to heart if they wish.

Essentially, my tips are intended to help people keep it civil on DU.

Now watch. I'll probably be the first to lose it. Such is life.

Someone said to keep a sense of humor and that is the best advice.

Humility is also important. I risk being a bit condescending in posting this, but I would like to further harmony and good discussion on DU. It is so easy to get caught up in emotion and lose control of one's temper.

[bbgrunt]

160. "most of us know who the stalkers are"......

Well, juries are never told who is doing the alerting. That is a real problem with this kind of assumption. We do NOT know who the alerters are, we only assume. I think this is part of the problem. Causing dissention here is to the advantage of anti-democracy forces and it is just icing on the jelly doughnut that they are never identified.

[dvduval]

38. Regardless of candidate...

It doesn't matter which carrier that you support when it comes to advice like this. We as Democrats should be trying to unite under a common set of ideas not knowing which candidate will prevail when it comes to election time. but if we work on our ideas and have a positive you about how we can win with her ideas we will prevail.

I personally would love to see Bernie as the choice, but let me say loudly and clearly that a much more dangerous situation is a Republican winning. If the Republicans control the presidency and Congress we are in for some dark years ahead. I will vote for our candidate and support them with my fullest enthusiasm once we decide on who will represent us.

[2pooped2pop]

41. i guess if this is becoming a hillary site

then so be it if I am removed.

[Moonwalk]

47. A Hilary site? Every time I come here the home page is Bernie threads....

I almost never see a Hilary thread on the home page unless its about e-mails. Or some Bernie person saying "Hilary is losing!"

Any person coming here and going no further, just the front page, would think this is a Bernie sight. There is NEVER any Hilary threads on the home page. Just Bernie after Bernie threads.

[2pooped2pop]

50. oh cool. If only the msm would do the same

Bernie's got my back.

[smokey nj]

52. This group is for supporters of Bernie Sanders.

[StoneCarver]

58. Hey I responded to a Hillary front page article and found

it was a "Hillary Only" group. I only wrote respectful disagreements and questions. For that I was banned and locked out. Why are these groups allowed on the front page in the first place? If these people want to live in an echo chamber they should never be allowed on the front page EVER! Democracy is about respectful dialog. Some of the Hillary people scare me. ( I also have a low post count because I read every day a couple of times and have for years, but only post when I think it's important.)
Stonecarver

[Autumn]

60. Well at this time they are allowed on the front page. You can see when you post

up at the top that this is the Bernie Sanders group. Please post accordingly and be respectful of our members and Bernie.

[Moonwalk]

61. I'm never disrespectful of Bernie. But I see in a lot of Bernie/Hilary threads...

...statements like "I'm not being disrepectful, I'm only statiing facts..." I was just stating a fact to the person who said that DU was a "Hilary" site. That fact is that anyone who doesn't go further than the Home page would think the DU was Bernie site because most of the threads are for Bernie.

Sorry if you found that fact disrespectful. And no, I was not aware that certain threads were for this or that candidate's supporters only. Feel free to edit out my posts if they're not in line with that, and I'll be sure not to post in them again, or even read them.

But I do think you should take advice from those outside your own pro-Bernie view. If conversion is your aim, shouldn't you listen to what people are saying who have not been converted and why? Bernie listened to BLM. He needed to if he was going to get their vote. And you kinda sorta need to do the same if you're going to get, oh, say, my vote.

[Autumn]

63. We don't edit posts, only the poster can edit their posts.

The majority here do support Bernie so there will be more OPs about Bernie

[smokey nj]

64. You are, however, disrespectful of his supporters.

[Autumn]

71. Beat me to it

We really need a high five emoticon.

[smokey nj]

74. ...

[smokey nj]

103. How the hell is my post disrespectful?

The person to whom I responded contrubuted nothing to this group except insults to Bernie Sanders supporters. I'm a host of this group - I did my job. If you have a problem with that, feel free not to participate in this group.

[Vincardog]

108. I was pointing out the OP's recomendation that we attack actions not people. I am working on

changing the way I allow myself to be drawn into fights I don't want to be in.
Sorry for my unintended offence.

[smokey nj]

111. I don't think the offense was unintended.

You didn't point anything out, you insulted me for doing my job.

[smokey nj]

138. What I posted was just fine, thanks. Your advice is unnecessary and unwelcome.

You're ignoring the fact that this is not GD-Pee, it's a group for Bernie Sanders supporters. When a supporter of another candidate comes into this group and insults Sanders supporters, my job as a host is to call them out on it.

[LiberalElite]

68. Uh, just curious

whose side are you on?

[Autumn]

72. Not Bernie when you check out the posts. Smokey blocked them

[LiberalElite]

75. That's what I was just looking at -

lo and behold Moonwalk just "walked" into here today.

[Autumn]

76. Strange how that happens

[JDPriestly]

78. I think your posts are find, but I am not in charge of this site.

[JDPriestly]

77. You said it well. "Democracy is about respectful dialog.?

I have a book of the letters between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. They disagreed about very fundamental things, but were able eventually to be good friends and write wonderful letters to each other.

That is what DU should be about. Discussion that is among friends.

We have to watch out for people who want to shift the tone to bitter animosity. They are not our friends.

We can have lots of disagreements, but they should be about facts, strategy and important issues, not about who can offend whom most skillfully.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

139. Good post.

I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat in the general election, but right now, I am supporting Bernie.

I voted for Obama because I thought he would be less of a corporatist, and I was greatly disappointed when he proved to be as much of a corporatist as Hillary.

I was so ticked off that I didn't even vote for anyone when his second term came up. (I can afford that luxury since my vote wasn't going to matter in my state.)

Still, as a democrat he has done things that no republican would do, and I'm grateful for that.

[MisterP]

62. it IS curiously easy to swamp them with CSPAN videos of Sanders talking about the issue

they insist he's loftily ignored for decades

the attacks aren't to convince anyone or even get someone banhammered, but to keep the conversation away from the facts and issues, to keep it purely words (same as on Tumblr)

[libodem]

69. Good advice

[img][/img]

We have plenty to fight against but not each other.

[JDPriestly]

156. Love your visual. Great. Please post it as an OP. It is wonderful.

[libodem]

168. I'd love to

[WillyT]

70. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[beam me up scottie]

79. Keep in mind too that outside of the DU bubble no one cares what DUers say.

And inside it's only happening in GD P which most of the rest of DU ignores.

[HappyPlace]

81. Somebody posted an article by Sarah Jones, called Berniacs "Elitist White Progressives".

The article elaborated:

"...priggish, self-satisfied, angry white progressives. The elitist, misogynistic kind whose myopic priorities are pot laws and the privacy of their emails. Oh, and their zealous, rabid hate for former Secretary Hillary Clinton."

Now I'm sure that the posting member just wanted to "educate" others on the DU about what nasty people are saying.

It's not AT ALL like that person was trying to say those things about Sanders supporters, or anything like that.

No link because I'm sure the member saw fit to self delete, maybe it never even happened.

[MerryBlooms]

82. Update your jury blacklist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Or better yet just call divisive bullshit

divisive bullshit and move on.

Not calling these people on it is part of the problem

And if I get sent for a vacation due to the bullshit and alert stalking, that is fine with me. The damage these people are doing to the democratic party that has not quite recovered from the 2008 war... will be epic.

And to my mind... well sow the wind, reap the whirlwind... but those who benefit are the oligarchs. And no, I have said it before and I will repeat it again... I support NO ONE. But the environment on this site is beyond toxic, and that is not a bug, that is a feature.

[MrMickeysMom]

106. I have to remember that one, nadin...

It gets right to the point. I read your earlier OP and I'm glad you feel that way. I know I do.

See how popular DU is? There are many posers that want to be "on it" and not "of it".

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. I know at one time we were able to discussi policy

the fact that cannot be done any longer is by design.

And the place is not as popular as it used to be.

[MrMickeysMom]

109. Well, I'm ready to discuss policy…

I'm gonna take an FDR attitude on that one.. "I welcome it".

I think 5 years of local politics has made me pretty thick on my Italian skin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Shall we compare city budgets?

[MrMickeysMom]

112. I think we should compare the folks in charge now who don't know how to read through one...

Seriously, but my municipality is about 28,000… so…. How BIG is YOURS?

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. Estimate from the United States Census for this fiscal year

Population By Races

Race Population % of Total
Total Population 1,307,402 100
White 769,971 58
Hispanic or Latino 376,020 28
Asian 207,944 15
Some Other Race 161,246 12
Black or African American 87,949 6
Two or More Races 66,688 5
American Indian 7,696 Below 1%
Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander 5,908 Below 1%
Three or more races 5,626 Below 1%
Native Hawaiian 1,005 Below 1%
Alaska Native tribes 117 Below 1%

There, the whole shmeer, and it matters when looking at issues of poverty, education and the rest of it.

[MrMickeysMom]

114. Just imagine if everyone's race didn't matter… but it does

Dis-proportionally.

But, I don't get the total… the world's population is a bit over 7B

The issues of poverty, education alone can drive a human being insane.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. And there is a lot of it that has to do with

distribution of resources that are very much race based.

Oh wait, I was supposed not to care for these issues.

Anyway, here is a piece I ran on poverty

http://reportingsandiego.com/2015/05/18/poverty-in-san-diego/

This is the kind of digging into it that I would love to see discussed

[JDPriestly]

162. Great article at the link. Thanks.

[jkbRN]

86. Touche!

[totodeinhere]

87. I think it's a real shame that we are forced to weigh every word carefully in an effort

to avoid accidentally saying something that will get us in trouble. Count me as naive if you want to but I didn't think that DU was supposed to be about that. I thought that this was supposed to be a gathering place for progressives to exchange ideas, not some sort of gotcha exercise.

It is no coincidence that a lot of good people who have a lot to contribute have left this site.

[blackspade]

91. Good tips regardless of affiliation.

I am personally sick to death of the alert stalking around here.
It is making this place toxic.
I'm not sure who is doing it, but they are thinning the ranks of POC here at DU and it is disgusting and needs to stop.

I do agree that there is a group, not necessarily all in league with each other, that are professional baiters.
Regardless of where their loyalties lie, they are the worst.

[eridani]

93. And do not blow off fears about "electability"

Those fears are sincere, and we will have to do some really superb organizing to fight off the oligarchs who will do anything to see that someone like Sanders doesn't get elected.

The FDR analogy is highly appropriate, but remember that even FDR didn't actually run as FDR--his platform was a balanced budget of all things.

[relayerbob]

94. I agree 100%

We need to inspire people to vote and attacks only convince them not to. And in the end, all the Democratic choices are better than any of the Republicans ... don't give the GOP any openings or ammunition.

[L0oniX]

97. This was alerted on by a Hillary group member. They are alert trolling this group.

[wolfie001]

100. P.U.M.A. Zombies Back From The Dead!

Great movie, did you see it?

[L0oniX]

102. Zombeavers pretty much killed my interest in zombies of all type.

[JDPriestly]

119. What a crazy thing to do, to alert on this post. Desperation. I'm really sorry for the people

who thought they needed to alert on my OP. My OP is intended to reduce the fighting, not increase it.

[Catherina]

104. Excellent OP with lots of excellent posts. Thank you

I don't even bother responding because of time constraints and temper but it's great that others do too.

It's what you said: "This is about winning" and together we're gonna get there. This time, the issues are too important and there's a strong difference between the candidates on issues.

[d_legendary1]

105. Just saw this not too long ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=41401

Some people are out to get Bernie supporters on time out. I wish the admins would do something about people abusing their alert system.

[McCamy Taylor]

117. Ooo. Look. Divide and Conquer now in the Greatest.

I'm gonna stick with Solidarity. It's been working out pretty well for me and the Democratic Party for quite some time now. But ya'll tell me how this whole "we have justice" (and its corollary, "you have ____&quot work out for you.

[JDPriestly]

118. Hopefully, Hillary supporters will also read my advice and then we will have more solidarity.

But I am suggesting that Bernie supporters start the quiet revolution of not responding in anger at divisive, insulting posts.

I'm a Bernie supporter. I can't post in the Hillary group because I am not allowed to.

[Autumn]

136. Then take it up with Skinner, he can change that. This group is for supporters of Bernie

post accordingly or you will be blocked.

[Chicago1980]

120. This is so stupid...

Why are Hillary supporters against Bernie supporters and why are Bernie supporters against Hillary supporters.

Democrats are their own worst enemies and become almost as big a partisan hack as the republicans while supporting "their" candidate.

The main focus period, should be to make sure that republicans don't win and to take back the house and senate. The main focus should to make sure people get out and vote and not sit on their asses like they did in 2010 and 2014.

I wish supporters of both candidates would stop attempting to divide & conquer one another.

[jeff47]

137. Part of the way we do this...

The main focus period, should be to make sure that republicans don't win and to take back the house and senate. The main focus should to make sure people get out and vote and not sit on their asses like they did in 2010 and 2014.

...is to have a competitive primary. Where people talk about what makes their candidate better for that task, and what makes other candidates worse for that task.

Which is inherently going to create conflict. Some people will not be able to deal with that conflict in a remotely constructive way, and will resort to attacking the other team's "fans" instead of discussing the policy differences that created the two camps.

[L. Coyote]

121. Some good advice, not that it makes any difference to their campaigns.

But, it would be nice if everyone could remember we are all one big team under one big tent, and .... get ready ....

Biden/Warren are going to need us to be unified.

[JDPriestly]

165. Much as I like Elizabeth Warren, I seriously doubt that Biden is going to attract very many

Bernie supporters. He is part of the Obama team that has not dealt with the economic insecurity and the loss of industrial jobs issues.

He is part of the team that is trying to sell us on the TPP. The Bernie movement is about saying no to TPP, yes to universal healthcare and free post-secondary education and other issues. But the TPP is a deal breaker.

Just watch the videos of the Bernie speeches. See where the applause, cheers and support are. The BLM issues, the family leave, TPP, college tuition, etc., environmental issues. Biden is on the wrong side of most of those issues.,

I know there is an attempt to "heal" the division between the Hillary and Bernie sectors of the Democratic Party, but he is too tied to the very limited progress made thus far on the key issues of our time to be a winning candidate.

Bernie is a break from the past inertia. And Bernie is letting people know that change depends on everyone remaining active between elections.

The Obama administration cut itself off from its supporters almost immediately by appointing a terrible Wall Street bunch to the top economic posts in the country. Although Hillary has hired Stiglitz as her economic adviser for the campaign, it is really hard to forget that Bill Clinton appointed the czar of the boom and bust cycles -- Greenspan -- to the Fed. We are still reeling from the terrible effects of that mistake.

And our trade policy under Clinton -- the signing of NAFTA and under subsequent administrations has as Ross Perot (I was a Clinton supporter at the time because after all he was a "Democrat" supposedly) warned, sucked American jobs out of our economy. The sucking sound is still being heard -- and felt by our children. It will be felt even more by our grandchildren.

I think that offering Biden up is a very bad idea. We need real change. It isn't about intrapartisan politics. It's about doing what is best for America and Americans, and Biden, nice guy that he is or Hillary, nice lady that she is, are not what we need at this time.

Obama and Biden had their turns. They appointed Geithner to the Treasury and Holden to the Justice Departments. Those were bad appointments. And ordinary Americans have suffered as a result. People have lost their economic security. The economy is great for the 1% and a rocky road for most other people. The job numbers do not tell the whole story. Working people are afraid because their jobs are so insecure. And people in their 50s and 60s,, right on the threshold of retirement are losing jobs and spending down their savings or being forced either to invest in a dishonest stock market or get next to nothing in interest on their savings.

Biden needs to realize that the economic and social picture that his administration is leaving behind is an ugly one -- not pretty at all.

He really should not run. He will be attacked from all sides due to the economy.

Remember, it was Bill Clinton who ran on the slogan, "It's the economy, stupid." It still is.

[C Moon]

124. I'm pretty sure I got hit with that about a month ago via DU mail.

Strange that people would waist so much negative energy on something like that.

[Perry Smith]

125. Perhaps utilizing the ignore feature or just not responding to her supporters may be the best

and safest course of action?

[CBGLuthier]

127. Avoid the words "coronation" "entitled" "politician" "tool of the corporations" "self-anointed"

or any other expression of reality.

[classykaren]

128. Thank you.

[4dsc]

131. I was banned from the Hillary group for pointing out the obvious

I just don't go there or read anything they post now. They are a very thinned skinned group.

[Bubzer]

132. Great post!

I've had moments of getting caught up in the heat of the moment and said things I shouldn't have. I'm only human after all.
Keeping in mind that we all sometimes get caught up in a strong emotional desire to see our candidate win, helps keep me off the emotional tide.

[karynnj]

133. Good advise

It also helps to remind yourself that , in general, no one here knows who you are and few even try to figure that out. While in many ways that prevents developing community, it does mean that we are anonymous - except to any like minded people we have met or developed a stronger relationship with. Knowing this makes it easier for me to ignore some attacks on me personally.

The comment on "you" is interesting and I will work to change that in my future posts to people like that.

[lonestarnot]

134. No swearing?

Booooooooooo.

[Kurska]

135. Some additional thoughts.

1. Focus on the argument, not the person, even if they are skirting with going personal. A lot of people intentionally skirt the edge of what is hide-able to try and bait out a response. They can be very good at this and know where the line is for most juries. I've seen a lot of posters get baited like this, respond in kind with a personal attack and get hidden. Realize that if someone is just barely not engaging in personal attacks, it might be they are trying to bait you. Such people are the first ones to hammer the report button the minute you slip up.

2. Don't rely on context to help you. Think of every post you make in isolation. A lot of fine things will be hidden if they are taken out of context. The sad fact of the jury system is that juries often don't both to read long comment trees and may just judge an individual post.

I've served on a lot of juries and only have ever had 1 hidden post, which was a 4-3. I engage in a lot of heated debate, but I always try to think of where the line is.

[JDPriestly]

142. Excellent advice! Please post it as a separate OP beacause a lot of people won't read it

because it is at the end of this thread, and it is really good advice.

Post it in the Bernie forum because it won't get thrown out. Apparently my thread was sent to the woodshed but made it out alive. Don't want that to happen to yours.

[DownriverDem]

140. Huh?

You do know that Hillary supporters are on the same page as you, don't ya? I will vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination. Will you vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination? If not, maybe you are a repub. The repubs want Bernie to get the nomination. Why?

[arcane1]

151. "maybe you are a repub"? Did you really just post that?

[djean111]

153. This really is not the place for The Pledge-y Thang.

Or accusing DUers of being Republicans.

I apologize if this is satire......

[ish of the hammer]

158. happened to me at Daily Kos

I'm a lurker and do not comment much and got trapped by a set-up diary, which upon reflection, did what it was designed to do. I got Hr'd right out of there and I ain't coming back. Now when I get mad, I hand out some more BERNIE flyers!

[Duval]

159. Worthwhile remembering this. eom

[senz]

166. What does one do when they blatantly lie about Bernie?

Just a few minutes ago, I saw two anti-Bernie lies, one repeated several times, in subject lines in the otherwise good thread "Sanders quickly makes changes when challenged by BLM. Clinton wags her finger. Whose out of step?" original post by Bernie supporter Armstead.

The lies were by supporters of Bernie's primary opponent. I tried to correct the lies, also in subject lines, but you cannot imagine my anger at such an openly shameful, scuzzy tactic. The main meme they're perpetrating is that Bernie talked over the BLM protesters and then left the stage. I saw the video; that is not what happened. Bernie relinquished the mic, stepped back, stayed on stage while the demonstrators talked/screamed, and bowed his head during the moment of silence.

A meme repeated often enough becomes reality.

Is there a preferred way of dealing with a tactic like this?

[Le Taz Hot]

167. #1 will never work for me

I appreciate the sentiment but I reserve the re.ight to use whatever fucking words I want. . Seriously, i've be n weaving mys of around thes amateurs for years. They"be targeted me for years s. All to no avail. Ultimately the alerter becomes the alerter and THEIR posts end up hidden. I'm just too amused at it to ever quit.

[mylye2222]

169. Thanks for the advices.

But what to do when thiose few, yet leading clique of supporters, comes intentionnaly in your threads to sabotage them and then congratules themselves for doing so?

[JDPriestly]

172. Just focus on the fact that we have such a great candidate.

He speaks for himself. There is no personal argument between you or me and the Hillary supporters. It's all about contacting and persuading the voters out there. The arguments on DU will not decide the campaign. You are too important to Bernie's effort on DU and elsewhere to get caught up in petty arguments with Hillary supporters.