Warning to Sanders supporters: How to identify alert baiting and avoid it.

[Kurska]

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2015, 06:49 PM - Edit history (2)

I am noticing this employed a lot against Pro-Bernie folks so I just wanted to pass on a word of warning. A lot of people are intentionally skirting the edge of what is hide-able to try and bait out a response. They can be very good at this and know where the line is for most juries. I've seen a lot of posters get baited like this, respond in kind with a personal attack and get hidden. Realize that if someone is just barely not engaging in personal attacks, it might be they are trying to bait you. Such people are the first ones to hammer the report button the minute you slip up. That is the end game and their argument "win condition", they want you to lose your cool and get hidden. The winning move is to ignore them and walk away. You can't reason with them, they are just waiting for that chance to slam the report button and see your post vanish.

A very classic tactic is that they'll find someone they agree with and talk very rudely about you. Obviously about you, but not mentioning you to avoid being hidden. You see this and you'll know, they are trying to troll you.

Don't rely on context to help you. Think of every post you make in isolation. Juries often won't look at the 7 rude responses to you, they'll see the one time you get mad and hide you. A lot of fine things will be hidden if they are taken out of context. The sad fact of the jury system is that juries often don't bother to read long comment trees and may just judge an individual post.

I think this is especially applicable here, because some of the absolute masters of this craft have taken to trolling Bernie Sanders supporters. Ain't gonna name names for obvious reasons, but just look out for it.

I have been on A LOT of juries where I see this and 90% of the time it is someone doing it to someone who supports Bernie sanders, so yes this is a real thing. They take advantage of the obvious passion of his supporters to twist it against them.

I posted this in another thread and someone suggested I make an OP. I hope this group is okay with that. If not, feel free to lock it.

on edit; oh god the horrible typos in the title, sorry about that.

[daleanime]

1. Ref's always pick-up....

the second foul.

And calls for keeping it cool are always good.

[Kurska]

2. Yup

Prod prod prod and then scream bloody murder when you finally get a response and cry for admins. It is a game plan as old as the jury system.

[Eleanors38]

29. Done in the Gungeon a lot in the past, not as effective now.

The vocabulary for "acceptable" language against 2A folks is tremendous and wouldn't be tolerated inmost groups and fora, but if you throw back even a portion of that, you would get a "kide." But 2A folks have gotten good at spotting this.

[villager]

3. Indeed. The other hallmark is one endless snark reply after another in a sub-thread

When something's not dropped, but instead obsessively worried over like a bone, with retort after retort, long after it has veered away from whatever the topic might have been, it generally becomes baiting at that point.

[Kurska]

4. Very much so, it is a huge part of the tactic.

The longer they keep you going, the more likely you are to slip up. Also, the more posts they can alert on in succession.

I've seen those too. They bring in a friend and they talk about "someone", but it is obvious you. It is meant to upset you and provoke a response.

People need to keep that in mind. Some posters have gotten VERY good at this. They'll slip up and get hidden sometimes, but as they get others hidden more often they are satisfied.

[villager]

9. Another good point -- the "tag teaming"

Where one or the other is coming off the ropes and into the ring, to pick up the snark initiated by the first one.

Presumably, the thought is the more overwhelmed the target is feeling, the likelier, too, for a lashing back or slip-up....

[Kurska]

11. Yup and when they are talking to each other in a seperate but connected sub-thread

It allows them to be extra rude, because they can be vaguer even though the target is clear. Juries almost never to read an entire sub-thread to see they are talking about a fellow duer.

[artislife]

12. My first and so far only one was just this exactly

I look at those two posters and still seethe to this day.

But I don't engage with them. They are the MEAN GIRLS and seem so nice to teacher.

Not getting in the last word has been the tough choice for me.

[-none]

40. Sometime the juries can't read anything about what else is going on because

they are talking to and coordinating with each other on another web site all together.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. I call this the Robert Joseph strategy. n/t

[JDPriestly]

37. Thanks. Just stay cool.

[sarge43]

5. Good advice and worth taking to heart

Don't engage with the name callers and poo slingers. If this is all they got, they're not worth it.

Mark Twain figured this out a long time ago. It's pig wrestling - you get all dirty and the pig likes it.

[Kurska]

6. In this case the pig runs to the cops and reports you for pig wrestling.

Ridiculous, but it is how it works.

[sarge43]

7. And loves running to the cops.

It's just another form of bullying

[Kurska]

8. 100% Bullying

Poke, prod, rude response, dismissive comment to someone else about you. They'll keep at it till you slip or they finally get a jury on their side. They aren't trying to have a discussion with you, they are trying to silence you.

[artislife]

18. Exactly! nt

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. Simple realy. If someone is raising your blood pressure they are just fucking with you

Don't respond, just put em on ignore.

[HereSince1628]

16. I'm already missing 1/ 3 of the news, and more than 1/2 the comments...ignore has its limits

I only ignore people who are name calling and purposefully jabbing others, and it's taken out supporters from all around the table.
My practice is to remove everyone from ignore at the end of the month...but following July's purge it only took hours a to end up with a dozen people once again on ignore.

For years I enjoyed the way DU pulled in stories with a liberal bent often weeks before they showed up on newspapers or tv stories in the Milw area. Now I'm spending a lot more time outside DU looking for other news options.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. This is not a bug, but a feature

they have also scared away those of us who care about good reporting and all that.

I had a classic weird conversation today with one of these folks who obviously is not a HRC supporter, but is damn tired with the non issues about the emails and uses corporate media to debunk corpo media.

Part that really made me scratch my head...she is relying on DIGBY who I doubt has read one of the emails in question, but is accusing me of taking the corporate line after I told her I read the emails.

It is bizarre.... almost worthy of writing an article.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

13. I scan for baiters... I Never reply to them

just so i can figure out who to put on ignore. Full Ignore It's your best DU friend. My list has dozens.

[L0oniX]

14. Good op ...thanks.

[Duval]

15. Thanks, Kurska. eom

[Babel_17]

17. Good OP, K&R: (When you're ahead on points, you avoid the flailing opponent)

Look at all the comments sections on the internet where Democrats and Progressives post. It's clear that Sanders is generally seen there as being a great candidate, and that the cheap shots against his campaign are made out of frustration. It's to the point where many Republicans, who rudely deride the economic platform of Sanders, concede his honesty and good intentions.

The Sanders campaign has the momentum and the excitement. It has an upfront agenda that we can be proud of and readily endorse.

Nobody is expecting any Sanders supporter to have to address every outrageous lie. There's going to be partisans sniping away, and others trying to provoke an untoward response by way of provocative and outrageous claims. They're a tiny portion of posters on the internet. If dealt with, deal with them factually and with good humor.

I know, we expect success to taste sweeter, for everyone to be cheering. This important period for the Sanders campaign has been a revelation in many ways, but now the opposition will be gearing up to win on other fronts, in new contests on all the levels that campaigns are waged.

That's nothing to sweat, the message of the Sanders campaign is being heard, and it's winning.

"Can't stop the signal".

[sarge43]

22. Shiny :) n/t

[Babel_17]

24. lol (nt)

[JDPriestly]

27. Thanks so much. Great post.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

20. Agree 100%, I've been hidden twice for bullcrap

God only knows the times I've been alerted on but won.

[Enthusiast]

31. Same here.

[haikugal]

47. I have no idea.

Is there a way to find out?

[beam me up scottie]

50. Not unless someone posts the results.

Some do it in a pm, others as a response to the alerted post.

It's very helpful because you can often tell who the alerter is by their comments.

[haikugal]

51. Thanks Scottie...

[klook]

21. Alerting: Typos.

I am a Sanders supporter, but I have to say, I have seen this go both ways. Alert baiting is currently a major suckage factor on DU, and there are quite a few offenders. Like road rage, some people expect hostility and overreact to minor perceived offenses.

Surely some alerts are merited, but others are obviously aimed at silencing voices. There are provocateurs among us who very consciously try to inflame discussions and pit Democrat against Democrat, as you have so astutely noted. I ain't havin' it.

All we can do is argue issues and policy, not personality. Our favorite candidate is a great role model in this respect.

Thanks for this OP.

[JDPriestly]

26. Yes.

[JDPriestly]

23. Thanks. Good advice. We need every Bernie supporter on DU.

Don't quit. Don't get shoved out.

Just ignore those who want to goad us into anger.

[Feeling the Bern]

25. Sociopathic passive-aggressiveness knows no political identity.

[HFRN]

28. good advice, and the thing to keep in mind is

that this is actually quite a vicious site much of the time

that people claiming to be for 'tolerance', 'compassion' and 'understanding', are deep down, out to get someone more than anything else

I got 2 hides for factual criticism of H (shown below - click 'show post')

HRC supporters are quite vicious

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251435166

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251435030

[Enthusiast]

32. I don't think those should have been hidden.

[HFRN]

33. neither do I

a great deal of this site actually functions as 'Encounter Group Therapy'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-groups

abusive thought reform, toward a 'chosen' point of view

[Enthusiast]

30. Excellent post, Kurska.

It's a very sad deal.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Question

Since I left here when DU3 went live and changed to the horrendous jury system (turned out to be exactly as I knew it would), I don't remember how it works - outside of random people being chosen to serve. When people alert, do the juries know who's doing the alerting? Do the juries know who else is on the jury with them? Or is the entire thing anonymous so you never know who's doing what?

I haven't been here for years and started lurking after Bernie announced and already know the group to watch out for or avoid. They travel in a group, feed off each other and stick out like a sore thumb because they all post the same things.

I REALLY miss the old mod system.

[Kurska]

36. Answers for your questions

1. The alerting person is not identified for juries
2. All jury deliberation happens independently, you read the posts and submit a vote. Jurors never contact each other and juries are always anonymous.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Thank you!

[Curmudgeoness]

39. How the jury system works:

An anonymous person alerts. They write a reason for the alert, and that is the only input the jury has besides seeing the post in question and the rest of the thread in case they are interested in going into it for more information. Most jurors seem to judge just that one post. No one knows the other jurors, and jurors cannot get any further information or discuss it. The alerter can often manipulate the jurors with their comments---some are better at the comments than others.

Welcome back.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. Thanks

for the welcome back.

If alerters were known, it would stop the alert stalking in its tracks, no? No wonder they get away with it. Sheesh.

Thanks for your help.

[Curmudgeoness]

45. Only one of a multitude of problems

with the jury system. I am often shocked at what is hidden, or what is not hidden.

[frylock]

35. Know the ledge.

[840high]

38. Thank you.

[MuseRider]

41. I don't usually get hidden or

even alerted on (I think I am being a real creep but I guess my standards are low).

At this point I am finding it easier to let it all go.

We probably all should find it easier because, I think we are going to win this. They are not measuring in any way that picks up what we have going.

Just my little cheery thought for the day.

I really think we might have this! Keep working and let them flail away. Correct them and let it go.

YMMV

[Catherina]

46. Excellent OP. My approach is to totally ignore them

especially the really vile tag-teamers who are then left twisting in the wind so any casual observer, even a first-time lurker, can see the mean girls (sometimes guys) club in action. I'd hate to divert from the entertainment value. And I'd especially hate for my responses to detract from the later squeals of how persecuted they are and twist any of my responses.

Great OP

[beam me up scottie]

49. Thank you Kurska.

Now that you mentioned it I see the pattern.