Great chart of Bernie's positives ...but does tend to make the others look bad.

[L0oniX]

Note that some of these marks may reflect a stance or lack of one from the previous years and may not be the current (say anything to get elected) positions on issues in the political campaigns of 2015. Hey ...some people change their minds for various obvious reasons.



Wrong points in the meme:

Hillary is for raising the minimum wage and has been for a long time.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/221116545/Correct-the-Record-on-Clinton-s-Minimum-Wage-Record

[heaven05]

1. current or not

pretty clear on who stands for principle, honesty and integrity in representing ALL of the people, ALL of the time. I tell you this Sanders guy is looking better and better..."Sanders guy" is me trying to be lighthearted about some serious times upcoming....for ALL of us. Some know it and care, not enough of them, some know it and don't care, there's a lot of them, bubble people don't know it and don't want to know it...there's a lot of them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. I do think Clinton should have a couple of more checkmarks

but overall I suspect the chart is pretty close to the mark. (I'd also remove some of the qualifiers - Why do you need 'truly' on gay marriage, for example, as opposed to just wording it as 'supports gay marriage'?)

[L0oniX]

3. I did not make the meme. Yea the word "truly" implies that someone is playing to the listener...

and not genuine about it.

[MaggieD]

15. IOW who cares if Sanders supporters lie about her?

SMH.

[bvar22]

85. Copied from the other thread. Great Post by DUer TM99

Last edited Sun May 10, 2015, 11:26 PM - Edit history (2)

I seldom see deconstructions this well done on DU anymore.
DURec for TM99


TM99 (2,315 posts)
36. It really is not a big ass lie.

If we go down the list, it is fairly accurate.

I will go down the list and show why it is fairly accurate.

1) Yes, both Sanders and Clinton are Pro-Choice. Check.

2) Yes, Sanders is for Universal Health Care. No Clinton is not. She argued for mandated health insurance in 2008. Many voted for Obama who was against the mandated insurance option in 2008 only to reverse his position once elected and go full in on HeritageCare. Check.

3) Yes, Clinton is on record as being for 'full' gun control. And Sanders record is more neutral. He has been consistent for some controls on guns but not 'full' control. He still receives an F rating from the NRA so he is definitely not a full blown 'gun nuter'. Check.

4) I am going to address both Against Big Business and Against Wall Street as they are so intimately intertwined. Sanders has been consistently opposed to the excesses of corporations and Wall Street for decades. Clinton has not. She is on record saying that pitchforks are not support for business. She was involved as SoS with drafting aspects of the TPP. She has been a board member of Walmart, one of the most predatory abusers of corporate welfare in this country. On both of those, yes, that is a big Check.

5) Sanders has consistently been against drug criminalization. Clinton since the 1990's has embraced the war on drugs.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/clinton-legalization-not-the-answer-to-the-drug-war-150696.html one such example. Sanders began speaking about legalizing marijuana as early as 2001. Again, another Check.

6) Sanders is consistent and completely congruent when it comes to money in politics and overturning Citizens United. He has refused to take corporate money. Clinton at best is incongruent only giving lip service at this time to this by stating she will over-turn it but is still taking the money. I would give this a qualified check but it is still closer to being accurate than not.

7) Sanders is definitely against the NSA surveillance state. Clinton has consistently voted for it and supported Obama's positions on it. Check again.

8) Both are in agreement on climate change. Check.

9) As far as affordable college goes, this one is definitely inaccurate and should be changed. Both Sanders and Clinton have a history of proposing legislation and ideas that would make college more affordable. Now to be fair, his idea is more socialist in nature in that he wants the government to cover it like it is in many European countries. Clinton has on the other hand wanted to engage private sector business leaders in making college education more affordable. I would prefer Sanders way, but I would not say she is against affordable education.

10) I addressed the minimum wage above. Sanders has both words and actions to back up his position. At this point in time, we have a recent tweet in support from Clinton but no specific positions or time-frames. So that one is nuanced but not inaccurate. Check.

11) Concerning the NDAA, the TPP, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War, this is completely accurate. Sanders has been vocally consistent in his opposition to all four and has voted accordingly. Clinton has been inconsistent on the TPP (in fact rather silent) but worked on provisions during her time at State, fully supports and voted for the Iraq War, fully supports and voted for the Patriot Act renewals, and fully supports the NDAA and voted accordingly. Check, check, check and check.

12) As far as internet censorship goes, Sanders again is completely congruent in language and action including votes against such things as SOPA. Clinton has yet again been very incongruent. She has spoken out against censorship but then fully supports prosecution of Manning, Wikileaks & Asange, Snowden, and was completely behind SOPA and CISPA.
http://www.thewire.com/technology/2011/12/hillary-clinton-hero-and-villain-internet/45975/ I would say that again I would give this one a qualified check because it is still closer to being accurate than not.

13) Finally, on the issue of gay marriage. This is another that I have mixed thoughts on. It is true that Sanders has been a vocal supporter of civil rights for LGBT individuals since the 1990's. He voted against DADT and DOMA. Clinton on the other hand had to evolve and did not come out strongly for gay marriage until 2013/2014. If we are saying today, do they both support it, then yes, this one is also wrong and should be corrected. If we are saying that out of the four as far as history goes, then yes, Sanders has been for these rights as long as he has been in politics, the two GOP'ers are totally against and have been, and Clinton was and is no longer.

So, no this graphic is not a huge lie. There are only two out of the seventeen that are questionable. One needs to be changed because it is completely inaccurate, and one needs to be changed because it is nuanced but not completely inaccurate. All of the rest are dead on accurate and shows the striking differences between these two Democratic candidates. There are more differences between them than there are between Clinton and the two GOP candidates on economic policies, foreign policies, and the surveillance state.

And as I argued above, these are the types of graphics that will sway low information voters who learn about candidates from Tumblr and other social networking sites. With two minor adjustments, this would be fully and completely accurate graphic for such a purpose.

[cui bono]

99. There is one HUGE correction to that info though...

The DUer in question's name is actually TM99, they just happen to be a Star Member.

[bvar22]

100. Hey, Thanks.

That is embarrassing.

I don't believe I've ever noticed a post by TM99,
but I hope he/she keeps posting.

[cui bono]

104. Hehe...

Don't worry about it. Happens to the best of us.

I've noticed them over the past week or so, good stuff.

[sabrina 1]

103. Excellent response, thank you for reposting it here.

[marym625]

106. +a bazillion

[sabrina 1]

102. You are free to tell us where she stands on the issues that are not checked off.

Where, eg, is she on the TPP?

Where is she on the minimum wage?

She might be for or against either one, but we don't know, because she hasn't said.

Bernie's check marks are due to the fact that he has been very clear regarding his positions on the issues.

Her marks are mainly because no one knows where she stands.

[L0oniX]

50. She has been pro raising the minimum wage for a long time but...

I'm not here to score points for her. I'd rather stay focused on Bernie's positives and deal with any negatives should they present themselves.

[aspirant]

67. +1

[lark]

4. Chart is not accurate.

Clinton has come out supporting gay rights, affordable college and for raising the minimum wage. Yes, Bernie is more progressive and will get my vote in the primaries, but Clinton isn't as bad as portrayed.

[L0oniX]

10. "Note that some of these marks may reflect a stance or lack of one from the previous years"

Did you miss that? BTW I think we can guess who alerted on the op.

[MaggieD]

17. This chart is complete BS

.... Is what it should say instead.

[L0oniX]

21. ...and your post is BS unless you want to post fact links to corrections.

[lark]

68. Not me

Wrong guess. I've only alerted one time ever since I came here 14-15 years ago. This one doesn't come anywhere near what it takes for me to be offended, not even close.

[pintobean]

5. Just served, awaiting Jury results.

[pintobean]

8. Jury results

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Non-factual. There are glaring errors on this, this shouldn't be posted on DU at all. It lies about a democratic candidate and that isn't the point of DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 10, 2015, 08:02 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Putting up a chart is considered hurtful? WOW!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh my, what a bad alert. I'm guessing the alerter is blocked from this group.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Don't waste my time with such an alert...sheesh.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: WTF?! Why was this alerted on? Don't waste my time. If you think there is something wrong with it provide whatever you think the facts are instead of trying to shut down discussion. Lame, lame, lame alert.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: My god people will alert on anything lately!
Grow up and discuss your point with the poster. DU is a democratic site. Sorry, but posting positive positions of a democratic candidate, in the group for that candidate, is allowed.
10 to nothing a HC supporter alerted
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[CharlotteVale]

9. #5 here. My first jury. Couldn't believe my eyes.

[pintobean]

16. Welcome to DU

I was #2.


Alerts aren't that bad too often.

[marym625]

26. I was 6

Just so tired of the crap. Like we're in high school. Hell, jr. High

[CharlotteVale]

53. Thanks! That one said so much about the alerter!

[tblue]

20. Welcome to DU!

It can get crazy, but it's fun. We're not too shy about saying what we thin, but the vast majority of us really mean well.

Enjoy!

[CharlotteVale]

55. Thanks! Glad to be here!

[C Moon]

34. DU does have a limit on how many times one can alert, no? I can't believe this was put on alert.

[pintobean]

58. No limits.

The only things are:

One has to wait for results before alerting again

A 0-7 leave result gets the alerter suspended from alerting for 24 hours.

[C Moon]

98. DU should consider limiting alerting if the jury consistantly finds the alerts wrong.

It seems to me it's abused a lot.

[SoapBox]

73. I was Juror #4

I repeat...Sheesh!

[marym625]

107. Pretty good jury

Obviously, most of us have no problem letting everyone know who we are for these results

[aggiesal]

6. I posted this chart last night ...

Go to this link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026649209

for more interesting comments on this chart.

Hillary supporters are not happy.
2 maybe 3 things are incorrect about the chart, so they believe
that makes the whole chart incorrect.

[L0oniX]

13. Towards the bottom you'll see me saying I'm going to x-post it. Thanks for posting it.

[bvar22]

84. I copied this from the other thread.

Last edited Mon May 11, 2015, 02:32 PM - Edit history (1)

TM99 (2,315 posts)

36. It really is not a big ass lie.

If we go down the list, it is fairly accurate.

I will go down the list and show why it is fairly accurate.

1) Yes, both Sanders and Clinton are Pro-Choice. Check.

2) Yes, Sanders is for Universal Health Care. No Clinton is not. She argued for mandated health insurance in 2008. Many voted for Obama who was against the mandated insurance option in 2008 only to reverse his position once elected and go full in on HeritageCare. Check.

3) Yes, Clinton is on record as being for 'full' gun control. And Sanders record is more neutral. He has been consistent for some controls on guns but not 'full' control. He still receives an F rating from the NRA so he is definitely not a full blown 'gun nuter'. Check.

4) I am going to address both Against Big Business and Against Wall Street as they are so intimately intertwined. Sanders has been consistently opposed to the excesses of corporations and Wall Street for decades. Clinton has not. She is on record saying that pitchforks are not support for business. She was involved as SoS with drafting aspects of the TPP. She has been a board member of Walmart, one of the most predatory abusers of corporate welfare in this country. On both of those, yes, that is a big Check.

5) Sanders has consistently been against drug criminalization. Clinton since the 1990's has embraced the war on drugs.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/clinton-legalization-not-the-answer-to-the-drug-war-150696.html one such example. Sanders began speaking about legalizing marijuana as early as 2001. Again, another Check.

6) Sanders is consistent and completely congruent when it comes to money in politics and overturning Citizens United. He has refused to take corporate money. Clinton at best is incongruent only giving lip service at this time to this by stating she will over-turn it but is still taking the money. I would give this a qualified check but it is still closer to being accurate than not.

7) Sanders is definitely against the NSA surveillance state. Clinton has consistently voted for it and supported Obama's positions on it. Check again.

8) Both are in agreement on climate change. Check.

9) As far as affordable college goes, this one is definitely inaccurate and should be changed. Both Sanders and Clinton have a history of proposing legislation and ideas that would make college more affordable. Now to be fair, his idea is more socialist in nature in that he wants the government to cover it like it is in many European countries. Clinton has on the other hand wanted to engage private sector business leaders in making college education more affordable. I would prefer Sanders way, but I would not say she is against affordable education.

10) I addressed the minimum wage above. Sanders has both words and actions to back up his position. At this point in time, we have a recent tweet in support from Clinton but no specific positions or time-frames. So that one is nuanced but not inaccurate. Check.

11) Concerning the NDAA, the TPP, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War, this is completely accurate. Sanders has been vocally consistent in his opposition to all four and has voted accordingly. Clinton has been inconsistent on the TPP (in fact rather silent) but worked on provisions during her time at State, fully supports and voted for the Iraq War, fully supports and voted for the Patriot Act renewals, and fully supports the NDAA and voted accordingly. Check, check, check and check.

12) As far as internet censorship goes, Sanders again is completely congruent in language and action including votes against such things as SOPA. Clinton has yet again been very incongruent. She has spoken out against censorship but then fully supports prosecution of Manning, Wikileaks & Asange, Snowden, and was completely behind SOPA and CISPA.
http://www.thewire.com/technology/2011/12/hillary-clinton-hero-and-villain-internet/45975/ I would say that again I would give this one a qualified check because it is still closer to being accurate than not.

13) Finally, on the issue of gay marriage. This is another that I have mixed thoughts on. It is true that Sanders has been a vocal supporter of civil rights for LGBT individuals since the 1990's. He voted against DADT and DOMA. Clinton on the other hand had to evolve and did not come out strongly for gay marriage until 2013/2014. If we are saying today, do they both support it, then yes, this one is also wrong and should be corrected. If we are saying that out of the four as far as history goes, then yes, Sanders has been for these rights as long as he has been in politics, the two GOP'ers are totally against and have been, and Clinton was and is no longer.

So, no this graphic is not a huge lie. There are only two out of the seventeen that are questionable. One needs to be changed because it is completely inaccurate, and one needs to be changed because it is nuanced but not completely inaccurate. All of the rest are dead on accurate and shows the striking differences between these two Democratic candidates. There are more differences between them than there are between Clinton and the two GOP candidates on economic policies, foreign policies, and the surveillance state.

And as I argued above, these are the types of graphics that will sway low information voters who learn about candidates from Tumblr and other social networking sites. With two minor adjustments, this would be fully and completely accurate graphic for such a purpose.

[Enthusiast]

7. Hillary supporters do not like this chart. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[L0oniX]

11. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[MaggieD]

18. Completely unethical

You know this chart is BS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026649209#post55

[smokey nj]

19. You've been asked several times to stop trolling this group.

[Agschmid]

23. Is it trolling to point out when something is factually incorrect?

At least on one point as pointed out in GD?

I thought we as a group were better than that?

[smokey nj]

25. She made her point in that post there wasn't any need for her

to come to this group. And this isn't the first time it's happened with that one. You have a problem with it take it up with the other hosts.

[aspirant]

66. +1

[Puglover]

105. This host has absolutely NO problem

with blocking that poster from this group.

[smokey nj]

109. Thanks Puglover

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. This group serves as safe haven for members who share similar interests and viewpoints.

This group serves as safe haven for members who share similar interests and viewpoints.

who share similar interests and viewpoints.

who share similar interests and viewpoints.

who share similar interests and viewpoints.

who share similar interests and viewpoints.

who share similar interests and viewpoints.


who share similar interests and viewpoints.

[clydefrand]

12. Well, I almost

squashed that little bug at the bottom.

[MaggieD]

14. This chart is BS

Which was covered the last time it was posted. I guess reality USED TO have a liberal bias. Not so much anymore, apparently.

[L0oniX]

22. Good for you that you don't have to post links to the facts.

Some candidates have changed over some years and some have remained more consistent.

[Agschmid]

24. You re-posted a meme from Tumblr...

I don't really call that dealing in facts

Safe havens should be just that, but they shouldn't be used to attack other people/groups.

[L0oniX]

27. It's a meme post about Bernie's positions. You are assuming that I posted it as an attack.

I even gave room for changes over the years and that the chart may not reflect that.

[Agschmid]

28. Is the meme 100% accurate?

[L0oniX]

29. About Bernie over many years ...yes.

[Agschmid]

30. Sure I agree about that part.

But is the meme 100% correct? Why is it okay to promote something that isn't 100% correct?

[L0oniX]

31. I noted room for error.

[Agschmid]

37. I think it's disruptive to post something you know isn't true.

I think it's disruptive to do it from a safe haven group, and then block people you get push back from.

When I first started with this group this is what I felt we should avoid. We could remain positive and not play the group wars. Baiting people in by posting something you know isn't 100% correct than banning them isn't okay. And it sure doesn't seem progressive, we should work to increase awareness of Bernie by being positive and working for success not my tearing other candidates down.

I've said this before and I'm sticking with it.

[L0oniX]

41. I didn't ban anyone over this. Did you alert on it?

[Agschmid]

42. Someone is now banned, you are a host.

Do you support the ban?

No I didn't alert.

[L0oniX]

44. This is not the first time around for that person.

[Agschmid]

45. Was that person correct though?

Is this meme from Tumblr 100% accurate?

[L0oniX]

46. This was covered in post 38.

[Agschmid]

47. So as a group we banned someone because they pointed out we posted something...

False.

Got it. Feels good in here, great acoustics, nice echo.

[L0oniX]

49. It's one thing to discuss it and another thing to pop in here and just say it's BS.

If you look you will see I have listed one false X with facts.

[Agschmid]

51. Yes I also linked to that post.

Glad we both agree there is something wrong with that meme.

[hootinholler]

65. I seriously doubt that was the reason for banning that one

They seem to be on a mission.

[TM99]

95. I addressed this with you in the other GD thread

before I got locked out.

There is only one factual error. Everything else is accurate. To discount something like this just because of one error is not going to serve us well.

Yes, it is only a silly meme from Tumblr. Yes, it is not 100% (probably about 92%) accurate. I and others have addressed that here and in the other thread.

I agree with the banning of MaggieD because they do not argue or debate with facts. Coming into a Safe Haven and just stating that something is BS with nothing to back it up is just trolling a Safe Haven.

Being 'too positive' can be a liability and a weakness. Sanders does not run negative attack ads. That does not mean that he does not, has not, or would not passionate argue with those who are harming this country and its citizens. He comes out swinging frequently BUT he always has facts, well reasoned arguments, and congruent consistency has his foundation. That is positive and strong.

[Agschmid]

96. We agree on most points.

I do think we do ourselves a disservice even when something is only slightly wrong.

I agree that MaggieD came in rather strongly, but people feel passionately about their candidate of choice. And to her/him they had already seen this whole thing go done once in GD.

I get frustrated when I see things I know to be wrong about Bernie repeatedly posted, so on some level I understand their anger.

[BrotherIvan]

108. +1

[hootinholler]

32. Please fill me in

How is this an attack? What are the actual errors?

[Agschmid]

33. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026649209#post36

[L0oniX]

38. Looks like reply 31 covered this

If we go down the list, it is fairly accurate.

I will go down the list and show why it is fairly accurate.

1) Yes, both Sanders and Clinton are Pro-Choice. Check.

2) Yes, Sanders is for Universal Health Care. No Clinton is not. She argued for mandated health insurance in 2008. Many voted for Obama who was against the mandated insurance option in 2008 only to reverse his position once elected and go full in on HeritageCare. Check.

3) Yes, Clinton is on record as being for 'full' gun control. And Sanders record is more neutral. He has been consistent for some controls on guns but not 'full' control. He still receives an F rating from the NRA so he is definitely not a full blown 'gun nuter'. Check.

4) I am going to address both Against Big Business and Against Wall Street as they are so intimately intertwined. Sanders has been consistently opposed to the excesses of corporations and Wall Street for decades. Clinton has not. She is on record saying that pitchforks are not support for business. She was involved as SoS with drafting aspects of the TPP. She has been a board member of Walmart, one of the most predatory abusers of corporate welfare in this country. On both of those, yes, that is a big Check.

5) Sanders has consistently been against drug criminalization. Clinton since the 1990's has embraced the war on drugs.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/clinton-legalization-not-the-answer-to-the-drug-war-150696.html one such example. Sanders began speaking about legalizing marijuana as early as 2001. Again, another Check.

6) Sanders is consistent and completely congruent when it comes to money in politics and overturning Citizens United. He has refused to take corporate money. Clinton at best is incongruent only giving lip service at this time to this by stating she will over-turn it but is still taking the money. I would give this a qualified check but it is still closer to being accurate than not.

7) Sanders is definitely against the NSA surveillance state. Clinton has consistently voted for it and supported Obama's positions on it. Check again.

8) Both are in agreement on climate change. Check.

9) As far as affordable college goes, this one is definitely inaccurate and should be changed. Both Sanders and Clinton have a history of proposing legislation and ideas that would make college more affordable. Now to be fair, his idea is more socialist in nature in that he wants the government to cover it like it is in many European countries. Clinton has on the other hand wanted to engage private sector business leaders in making college education more affordable. I would prefer Sanders way, but I would not say she is against affordable education.

10) I addressed the minimum wage above. Sanders has both words and actions to back up his position. At this point in time, we have a recent tweet in support from Clinton but no specific positions or time-frames. So that one is nuanced but not inaccurate. Check.

11) Concerning the NDAA, the TPP, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War, this is completely accurate. Sanders has been vocally consistent in his opposition to all four and has voted accordingly. Clinton has been inconsistent on the TPP (in fact rather silent) but worked on provisions during her time at State, fully supports and voted for the Iraq War, fully supports and voted for the Patriot Act renewals, and fully supports the NDAA and voted accordingly. Check, check, check and check.

12) As far as internet censorship goes, Sanders again is completely congruent in language and action including votes against such things as SOPA. Clinton has yet again been very incongruent. She has spoken out against censorship but then fully supports prosecution of Manning, Wikileaks & Asange, Snowden, and was completely behind SOPA and CISPA.
http://www.thewire.com/technology/2011/12/hillary-clinton-hero-and-villain-internet/45975/ I would say that again I would give this one a qualified check because it is still closer to being accurate than not.

13) Finally, on the issue of gay marriage. This is another that I have mixed thoughts on. It is true that Sanders has been a vocal supporter of civil rights for LGBT individuals since the 1990's. He voted against DADT and DOMA. Clinton on the other hand had to evolve and did not come out strongly for gay marriage until 2013/2014. If we are saying today, do they both support it, then yes, this one is also wrong and should be corrected. If we are saying that out of the four as far as history goes, then yes, Sanders has been for these rights as long as he has been in politics, the two GOP'ers are totally against and have been, and Clinton was and is no longer.

So, no this graphic is not a huge lie. There are only two out of the seventeen that are questionable. One needs to be changed because it is completely inaccurate, and one needs to be changed because it is nuanced but not completely inaccurate. All of the rest are dead on accurate and shows the striking differences between these two Democratic candidates. There are more differences between them than there are between Clinton and the two GOP candidates on economic policies, foreign policies, and the surveillance state.

And as I argued above, these are the types of graphics that will sway low information voters who learn about candidates from Tumblr and other social networking sites. With two minor adjustments, this would be fully and completely accurate graphic for such a purpose.

[Agschmid]

43. I for the most part agree with that posts analysis.

[aggiesal]

35. I originally posted this image ...

I stated at that time that I found it on tumbler.
I don't know where the person that put it on tumbler got it from.
They may have created it themselves or re-posted it from another source.
So yes this might be a tumbler meme, but then again it may not.

If I could correct it, I would. But I don't know how to put an image online
and then have that link posted here with a more accurate image.

Feel free to correct the image yourself and re-post.
But since it appears that you are a Hillary supporter, I don't believe you
will, because it will still portray Hillary badly.

[Agschmid]

39. If that's a reply to me...

I'm not a Hillary supporter.

But I'm not about tearing other candidates down based on false memes.

Scorched earth isn't my M.O.

[MissDeeds]

54. If I recall correctly

in the HRC group, you said you were going to volunteer in NH for her. I think that makes you a supporter, especially since the primary isn't over.

[Agschmid]

56. Bernie was not running at that point.

So yes I said that.

I've had he pleasure of voting for Bernie multiple times as previous VT'er... so until he announced I was doing what I could to get Dems. elected.

[MissDeeds]

57. A lot of us chose to wait

since Sen Sanders was considering running although had not yet declared he'd run. You jumped on the Hillary bandwagon pretty quickly; but whatever you say.

[Agschmid]

59. I jumped on the Democratic Party bandwagon.

My vote is just that, my vote.

I may not pass your tests but I know who I support, I just don't want to do it by tearing others down. It's just not right.

[MissDeeds]

60. Pffft

Whatever

[aspirant]

70. +1

[AtomicKitten]

69. You might want to rethink your participation in this group.

I remain unconvinced of your good intentions.

[Agschmid]

74. No.

I'm a Bernie supporter.

We aren't going to agree on every issue and that is okay. It's not my responsibility or my intention to convince you of anything.

[AtomicKitten]

76. We'll see, won't we?

Frankly, Hillary supporters have no business posting in this group and continuing to do so is rude.

You are at best on the fence.

[MissDeeds]

77. +1

Seems a bit odd that a Bernie supporter would have so many posts in this group trying to attack the veracity of a post/op that is clearly favorable to our candidate.

[AtomicKitten]

78. *

[Agschmid]

79. So because it's favorable to our guy...

I should ignore the mistakes? I should just allow us to factually misrepresent another candidate because that way we will win.

That's now how I want to win, I want to win by having the better message and not have to misrepresent another candidates position to get there.

We already have a better message so any distractions like this just make us seem foolish.

Also I won't play these games where I openly question where people stand, my vote is my vote. I'm a Bernie supporter, but again we aren't going to agree on everything, nor should we.

[aspirant]

80. Seems people are considering you the DISTRACTION

[Agschmid]

81. Yah cause you know... Facts.

[aspirant]

82. Facts

Oh you mean those things Hillary shares with the people on a daily basis

[MissDeeds]

83. Oh this should be good

[L0oniX]

90. Share?

[MissDeeds]

94. Of course!

[aspirant]

71. Oh NO,

[aggiesal]

61. Sorry, I thought you were a Hillary supporter ...

but if comparing and contrasting candidates is tearing them down, we're in trouble,
because that's how I thought we were supposed to determine which candidate to
support and vote for.

If you believe this is incorrect, don't complain, by all means fix it and re-post.

[Agschmid]

63. The only reason I call it tearing down is because it's not factually accurate.

If it was I'm fine with it.

Maybe I will re-create this...

[aggiesal]

64. I think a lot of DU'ers would appreciate that, myself included ...

If it's not 100% accurate, Hillary supporters will continue to dis-count it.

Even if it's 100% accurate, they will claim it as negative propaganda.

[L0oniX]

72. "Even if it's 100% accurate, they will claim it as negative propaganda." Well

we can't help that.

[Agschmid]

75. Except again what was posted (in its current form) isn't accurate.

There is a difference, you can take a principled stand on something when that something is correct.

Otherwise standing up for it only makes us look foolish.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

86. It appears to be 15.5/17ths accurate or so. 91% or thereabouts.

That's still an 'A' in most college classes. And as one of the first people to post a comment in the thread, I pointed out that it looked to have a couple of flaws. I think that's the correct response to a mostly factual meme, not to call it 'BS' in multiple comments up and down the comment thread. Someone else posted a more nuanced check on the statements made in the 'meme', that backed up that notion that it's mostly correct, so I think the person 'looking foolish' was the one who, if I'm reading the comments right, got banned, who seemed to want to imply it was entirely false, instead of almost entirely true.

[L0oniX]

87. Look foolish? Get real. Every Hillary supporter already thinks we look foolish.

Do you really believe that the money side is not going to play dirty? IMO that money is the definition of dirty. I am not trying to promote playing dirty but I will not stop posting the positive points of Bernie just because someone gets offended.

I've already made one correction to the op meme and I will add any other legit correction to it ...even though I did not make the meme. Still ...it still makes the repukes look very bad.

[Agschmid]

88. I don't think we have to "play dirty".

I think making those corrections was the right thing to do, and of course the republicans look bad they are!

[L0oniX]

89. You know the money side is going to play dirty and smear Bernie.

I'm not saying attack first but I'll bet any amount of money they will attack and we will give in and attack back. That's the way it always is ...not only that but because people are so consumed with anything else but politics they will default to believing the tv ad smears. At least with us our attacks will be with the truth about Bernie and his track record. We won't have to smear the competition, the facts from Bernie will be a natural smear on their chosen candidate. I know you won't be surprised when the smear attacks happen. DU Dems have been smearing Bernie with the age and socialist BS ...and of course the "he can't win" BS. I take that as being dirty attacks.

[Agschmid]

91. Again I mostly agree I just don't see playing dirty as the answer to dirty tactics.

I think Bernie might do some unexpected things...

[TM99]

92. I got locked out of that thread

for challenging the Clinton brigade. They play dirty.

Some times Sanders supporters are going to get pissed off at that and fight back. It is only human.

Even Sanders has been known to lose his cool like he did in that Town Hall meeting. Again, we are only human.

[Agschmid]

93. Fair enough.

[I hate liars]

36. Two I would add: "Against Defense Budget Increases", "Supports Palestinian Self-determination"

Maybe a couple more, "Opposes Military Adventurism" and "Anti NATO Expansion".

I'd like to hear all of these candidates talk more about their positions on those points.

[L0oniX]

52. ^^^this^^^

[cantbeserious]

48. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[colsohlibgal]

62. Ditto

Can't do Neo Democrat anymore, they have helped devastate the middle class and below to the benefit of the wealthy.

[guillaumeb]

101. the chart does not make the others look bad.

They make themselves look bad.