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Cleita

(75,480 posts)
Sun May 10, 2015, 12:56 PM May 2015

Turning Democrats from Hillary to Bernie.

Four of us Democrats set up a table for registration and immigration issues at a fiesta in the small hamlet of Guadalupe in Santa Barbara County yesterday, Saturday May 9th. The town sits on the edge of the Guadalupe Dunes, where famously Cecil DeMille filmed his spectacular, "The Ten Commandments".

http://dunescenter.org/visit-the-dunes/dunes-center/exhibits-and-activities-research/the-lost-city-of-demille/.

The town is mainly populated by the Mexican farm workers and their descendants who worked on and many still work on the surrounding miles of fields of produce. My fellow Democrats were all Hillary supporters. I believe by the end of the day I had converted them to Bernie supporters or at least to look at him as a serious candidate.

Anti-Bernie point #1. He doesn't have a chance because he doesn't have the big donors. I pointed out that in his first five days after his announcement that he had raised 3 million dollars and 175,000 volunteers. That left them speechless until one Hillary supporter admitted that it was impressive.

Anti-Bernie point #2. He doesn't have the Washington experience Hillary does. I answered. He's been in the Senate for almost two terms, in the House of Representatives for sixteen years and was Mayor of Burlington, Vermont before that. The only experience Hillary has that he doesn't is being First Lady.

Anti-Bernie point #3. He has that Dennis Kucinich factor. I quoted Thom Hartmann on this. Thom said that the difference between Dennis and Bernie is that when reporters asked Dennis Kucinich if he believed in UFOs, Dennis said, yes. Bernie would say that the people aren't interested in his opinion of UFOs. They are interested in their jobs, in Social Security, putting food on the table and educating their kids, so ask him questions about those things.

Then the other woman in our group said she wanted a woman President to which even one of the men replied that other women could be President besides Hillary so it didn't have to be her turn and then admitted he was bothered about the dynasty question of another Clinton in the White House. Then everyone agreed that there should be other candidates challenging Hillary and bringing her to the debate.

All in all I think I did well. I have no problem argueing down right wingers because facts will usually shut them up but other Democrats are harder to argue with, but it seems that our party spreads disinformation too.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Turning Democrats from Hillary to Bernie. (Original Post) Cleita May 2015 OP
K & R L0oniX May 2015 #1
Nice job aspirant May 2015 #2
Good work. Thank you! Hiraeth May 2015 #3
Thank you for sharing this.... KoKo May 2015 #4
My point. Bernie does not suffer from foot in mouth disease. Cleita May 2015 #5
Very true...! KoKo May 2015 #7
Good job BrotherIvan May 2015 #6
What I have had success with is getting people to register to vote for him in the primary Dragonfli May 2015 #22
You are fighting the good fight and I commend you BrotherIvan May 2015 #25
Good work... daleanime May 2015 #8
And SoS. F4lconF16 May 2015 #9
Hillary was Secretary of State upaloopa May 2015 #11
And we should all remember that her State Department was quite insistent on getting the truedelphi May 2015 #15
True. Thanks for the correction, but it was Washington experience the person Cleita May 2015 #12
Ah, okay. F4lconF16 May 2015 #14
Great Answer, Cleita! Thank you! n/t truedelphi May 2015 #16
True, she was SoS. TM99 May 2015 #23
Yeah, that clip always creeped me out more than anything else I've seen from her. F4lconF16 May 2015 #24
Clinton on issues pertaining to the middle east makes me... uneasy Scootaloo May 2015 #33
That, too, Scootaloo eloydude May 2015 #39
is the fiesta still going on today? Are you going to be there? upaloopa May 2015 #10
No. It was just yesterday. It's the first year the community has done it. n/t Cleita May 2015 #13
I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious May 2015 #17
The revolution will not be televised raindaddy May 2015 #18
K & R !!! Thespian2 May 2015 #19
THANK YOU!!! ellennelle May 2015 #20
advice for Bernie... force Hillary out into the sunlight ... quadrature May 2015 #21
Yeah that will have a ring with Democrats.... Historic NY May 2015 #26
Thing is, it's not for democrats Scootaloo May 2015 #34
Trouble is he has the Wash DC Party Machine incl the DNC working against him. rhett o rick May 2015 #27
Great job! In all due fairness to your friends, they aren't likely on DU. LOL libdem4life May 2015 #28
Like some of us I don't like to be pushing sadoldgirl May 2015 #29
Good for you. I think a lot of people just think Hillary is 'inevitable'. sabrina 1 May 2015 #30
Seems like DU has turned into sunnystarr May 2015 #31
You realize you are in the Bernie Sanders Group? marym625 May 2015 #36
Seems like DU has turned into sunnystarr May 2015 #32
A great many DU'ers want Bernie to be president Scootaloo May 2015 #35
You don't have to worry about being around the group anymore marym625 May 2015 #37
Thanks for your work dreamnightwind May 2015 #38
Applause for getting out there and doing this Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #40

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
4. Thank you for sharing this....
Sun May 10, 2015, 01:43 PM
May 2015

I'm a fan of Dennis Kucinich but he could get sidetracked. As we know, MSM's job is to sidetrack a candidate...to bring up and throw a candidate off guard with a "Gotcha" moment. Bernie won't allow that. He knows his issues and he's had years of practice in his appearances on Thom's "Breakfast with Bernie" segments and his political experience in Vermont Govt. and the Senate. He's no push over for a "Gotcha" and and doesn't suffer fools gladly.

This:

Anti-Bernie point #3. He has that Dennis Kucinich factor.

I quoted Thom Hartmann on this. Thom said that the difference between Dennis and Bernie is that when reporters asked Dennis Kucinich if he believed in UFOs, Dennis said, yes. Bernie would say that the people aren't interested in his opinion of UFOs. They are interested in their jobs, in Social Security, putting food on the table and educating their kids, so ask him questions about those things.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
7. Very true...!
Sun May 10, 2015, 02:02 PM
May 2015

That's why I hope that he will be such a contrast with Hillary and the Repub Clown Car that it will wake the sleeping people up!

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
6. Good job
Sun May 10, 2015, 01:55 PM
May 2015

I will point out that Hillary's Sec of State experience is very strong on foreign relations. Even during her time in the White House, her fame and clout was a plus with leaders. We haven't heard much from Bernie on foreign policy (which at this point in time I think is smart) but I am interested in his point of view.

I also suspect the woman that is only voting for Hillary because of gender will still vote for her. And there will be a lot of those people as we can see on this board. Hopefully we can attract enough new voters to make up for that.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
22. What I have had success with is getting people to register to vote for him in the primary
Sun May 10, 2015, 06:54 PM
May 2015

We have spoken before of some of the similarities of our two neighborhoods, here there are many people that simply do not vote because no politicians ever speak of issues that concern them, they are not middle class suburbanites, or gentrified city dwellers.

They are mostly below the radar and are well aware that the party has left the struggling work force, those that do not make upper middle class wages. They see no champions in the Republicans either, they simply see no champions at all and are too tired from work (if they can find it) and stress from not being able to keep up with bills that increase even as their wages stagnate. Most of them no longer vote except for mayor and other local races that affect them directly.

At least half of the older people I talk to were once blue collar Democrats (middle aged), but abandoned the party after the party abandoned them and all the factories began shutting down leaving them with only service jobs that do not pay the bills. They are eager, not just wiling, to come back to the party and begin voting again just to vote for Bernie in the primary because he reminds them of a party that once fought for them rather than the white shirted managers and titans of business that have been the Democratic target constituency of late. I gave out registration forms for 18 such people and have to go get more .

Others I talk to are young people that have never felt a party existed that represents them and think (rightly) that when our pols talk about helping the middle class, they are talking about those that live in much nicer neighborhoods with picket fences and multiple 30 to 40 thousand dollar vehicles, they are the most apathetic that I speak with, but are smarter than people think, most already know of both Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren, and surprisingly (to me) a number of them are trying with little success to access higher education, the best they tend to do is Community College, but are trying like hell not to be poor for the rest of their lives, they hear about Bernie and Elizabeth because they have heard their talk about student loans, all but a few want to go on to the state colleges and do not see how they can afford it. I don't need to get them registration forms, they have been getting them on their own

The older people, the disabled, and those without work are also plenty here, the elderly were scared as hell when there was talk about a compromise on SS with Republicans and are convinced both parties want to take their SS from them to invest in wall ST. It is more nuanced than that, but to people that are living on the edge of poverty that count on those checks, the fear is very real, they are already registered (for the most part) but prefer anybody but Clinton because they are convinced she will sell therm out on SS. The disabled have similar fears and appear to be leaning heavily Sanders. The non working, mostly single mothers I talk to are afraid they will lose assistance and don't see any Democrats fighting for them, once I inform them of Bill's end to welfare as we know it, they immediately lose trust in Hillary, and although not big voters (I did get many to vote for Obama in '08 which is hurting my credibility now) I have convinced a handful to try one more time with Bernie because he has a record of speaking and acting on issues that affect the lower classes. They love what he has to say about expanding the safety net, hell, everybody I talk to that is not financially comfortable loves what Bernie is saying, the biggest obstacle I have is that the last time I went around, I sold Obama big time and he ignored them all. There is a credibility problem that arose from his rhetoric that turned out to be empty, people don't want to be fooled again.

I will continue to go out and have discussions and bring material (and links) to show that he has been consistent and is not just saying what they want to hear, if I can get past the trust issues after the '08 attempts, I believe I can deliver most of the neighborhood in the primary, and then of course in the general.

For an experiment I will try to get a ride out to the 'burbs where folks aren't hurting yet to gauge what people think there, my feeling is they will like the white lady that they think is like them, but who knows, maybe some will realize that their comfort will be short lived with another 8 years of attacks on their middle class existence, putting them in the same position as most of my neighbors are now.


It is hard for me, because I don't have portable oxygen and I get out of breath rather quickly due to something called pulmonary hypertension, I will do what I can, and it is working, so many know they have been left behind and do not expect a corporate candidate to do anything but make things worse for them, such people so far have been open to Bernie's ideas and appear to find him an honest and trustworthy individual rather quickly (something about the way he speaks perhaps shows his integrity)

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
25. You are fighting the good fight and I commend you
Sun May 10, 2015, 07:15 PM
May 2015

And I admire you. I too hear from people in my neighborhood the major distrust. And I'm almost embarrassed to try to get their hopes up again. But I think that what Bernie has to say really speaks to them. His anger speaks to their anger. I think he will really seal the deal if he has something substantive to say about police violence.

What Bernie is talking about does seem like a fantasy: free college, universal healthcare. He needs to assure people it doesn't mean high taxes. It's already in his platform, he just needs to make it a big point.

They could care less that he's a socialist. I truly think that is a white, older voter. And young people don't care at all. But still can't believe that a politician isn't lying when his lips move. I have a lot more luck with co-workers and higher education levels.

I think there is a growing movement though as you say that hopefully will take everyone by storm. It will take people like you to spread the word. Go slow and don't wear yourself out. We've got a year to get people to the polls.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
9. And SoS.
Sun May 10, 2015, 02:06 PM
May 2015
The only experience Hillary has that he doesn't is being First Lady.

I will add that small correction, though I don't think that's a positive thing.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
15. And we should all remember that her State Department was quite insistent on getting the
Sun May 10, 2015, 02:35 PM
May 2015

Keystone XL Pipeline approval through the needed channels. It took the work of tens of thousands of activists to stop it.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
12. True. Thanks for the correction, but it was Washington experience the person
Sun May 10, 2015, 02:14 PM
May 2015

was referring to or more specifically dealing with lobbyists and other members of Congress. Bernie has more experience being he kicked the lobbyists out of his office from the beginning and still has survived without their support.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
23. True, she was SoS.
Sun May 10, 2015, 07:01 PM
May 2015

But she also had an unremarkable tenure where she pushed things like Keystone, worked on the TPP, and said "We came, we saw, he died (giggling!).

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
24. Yeah, that clip always creeped me out more than anything else I've seen from her.
Sun May 10, 2015, 07:14 PM
May 2015

Most times I shy away from criticizing her delivery/etc., because there's enough criticisms of her to go around without talking about the things that are usually used to attack women in our media. That said, that really bothered me. Ordering the death of someone is not a laughing matter. Eeeuch. Not okay at all.

And yeah. Not a fan of her actions taken when she was in power in the State Department. There's a lot of real problems hidden among the cries of "Benghazi" and constant barrage of sexism. Unfortunate that the media won't push her on any of them, but I guess I don't really expect anything useful from them.

I meant more to correct a factual inaccuracy (that, as Cleita pointed out, was not an issue) than to put in praise for her tenure at State.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
33. Clinton on issues pertaining to the middle east makes me... uneasy
Mon May 11, 2015, 02:59 AM
May 2015

I mean on one hand... yeah, sanders is yet another copy-paste, pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian Washington template. But I think even though I disagree with him on a lot of things there, I can count on him having the ability to say "enough is enough" at some point - he told Netanyahu to screw off, basically if you'll remember. And he's not a hawk by any measure.

Clinton laughs over the idea of another nation's leader basically being mutilated to death by armed gangs that have left the country far worse off than before. I mean I suppose Gahddafi himself is no great loss or anything, but yeah,it was creepy. When pandering for the pro-Israel vote, she threatened to obliterate Iran. I get that our politicians feel they need to kiss ass and stay on board with the Israel Crazy Train idea that iran is a grand threat, but really, even Bush was like "we will not allow Iran to attack" and other such soft-handed approaches. There was no threats of fuckin' obliteration.

And I realize that the SoS does what the SoS does, and doesn't write policy... but it's as hard to get over the state department under Clinton putting in its shoulder in defense of Mubarak, as it is to watch Kerry traipsing around Cairo with Sisi. and there was the whole "arming Bahrain against the Bahrainis" thing...

Clinton's SoS service and foreign policy approach is not a positive for me at all.

 

eloydude

(376 posts)
39. That, too, Scootaloo
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:25 AM
May 2015

I lurk at I/P, and have seen many posts of yours over there.

I'm Jewish, have a relative in an illegal settlement, and don't agree with Netanyahu. I also support Israel's right to exist, and do agree that there should be a two-state solution.

I imagine that if Bernie is elected as President, one of his signature foreign policy achievements would be to get Israel and Palestinian leaders to sit down and work a solution that is acceptable.

And I remember Ms. Clinton having some sort of weird scandal related to Bosnia while she was a First Lady?

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
10. is the fiesta still going on today? Are you going to be there?
Sun May 10, 2015, 02:13 PM
May 2015

I drove past the fiesta yesterday but we didn't stop

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
21. advice for Bernie... force Hillary out into the sunlight ...
Sun May 10, 2015, 03:58 PM
May 2015

the more people see, the less they will like

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
26. Yeah that will have a ring with Democrats....
Sun May 10, 2015, 07:21 PM
May 2015

using the strategy of being a party outsider. I'm not amazed at the neophyte thinking.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
34. Thing is, it's not for democrats
Mon May 11, 2015, 03:04 AM
May 2015

Democrats who know their shit know that sanders has caucused with Democrats for as long as he's been in office. Policy-wise, he's a more solid democrat than a lot of congressmen have been. Democratic voters know he's with us.

The "outsider' strategy is to pull in the self-labeled "independent" voters, or the (hurk, blurgh) "Undecideds." These people are the breeding ground of that grand American political philosophy, "both parties are the same." you present to them a candidate who has stayed in office without a letter next to his name, and it'll at least get them interested. it might not win them over, but it's away of opening the conversation.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
27. Trouble is he has the Wash DC Party Machine incl the DNC working against him.
Sun May 10, 2015, 07:57 PM
May 2015

They would cut the number of debates down to zero if they could. Count on them trying to neuter the debates to make it hard for Sen Sanders to "force her into the sunlight."

If the media was fair they could show the difference between the candidates. Both have had made it clear in the past where they stand. If Clinton wants to change horses in the middle of the stream, the media should expose that.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
29. Like some of us I don't like to be pushing
Sun May 10, 2015, 11:44 PM
May 2015

people. So I decided to take Bernie's platform around
the neighborhood, and tell them that imho he is one of the most
honest politicians that I know of.
Funny, except for one guy, who said quite clearly that the party
will decide on Hillary, like it or not, all the others said they
would get more info on Bernie, and liked the platform they
read.
I try very hard not to criticize HRC, but always mention that
Bernie is running against her in the primary, which most of
them don't seem to realize.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
30. Good for you. I think a lot of people just think Hillary is 'inevitable'.
Mon May 11, 2015, 12:54 AM
May 2015

They have been propagandized with the fear that if we don't vote for the most well known candidate, we could end up with a Repub.

I don't know if I converted a Dem when I told someone about Bernie, because I don't know if she was a Hillary supporter, but I did win her over to Bernie and she said he sounds 'wonderful' and she was thrilled to hear about him. I talked to her about having a meetup since she is well known in her town. She said she is very interested in doing that.

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
31. Seems like DU has turned into
Mon May 11, 2015, 02:36 AM
May 2015

a Bernie Sanders for Pres site. I think I need to find another site for a while. This is the solution for the Republican's fear of Hillary. It's great so many can play right into their hands.

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
32. Seems like DU has turned into
Mon May 11, 2015, 02:37 AM
May 2015

a Bernie Sanders for Pres site. I think I need to find another site for a while. This is the solution for the Republican's fear of Hillary. It's great so many can play right into their hands.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
35. A great many DU'ers want Bernie to be president
Mon May 11, 2015, 03:18 AM
May 2015

If that bothers you, well... sorry? I have no plans on not liking Sanders because liking him upsets you though.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
37. You don't have to worry about being around the group anymore
Mon May 11, 2015, 04:44 AM
May 2015

And frankly, that's a weak argument at best

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
38. Thanks for your work
Mon May 11, 2015, 07:26 AM
May 2015

Re your point #1, I think beating Hillary will be more difficut than beating whoever comes out of the Republican primary, so I'd say that they have some cover on that issue. If they like his policies, they should support him in the primary, if he can beat her he can win the general. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I think.

Hillary has the big donors, so he'll have demonstrated that he can win over big money if he beats her, also the right wing really hates Hillary and will have all sorts of attacks prepared for her, some fair, some not.

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