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Tue May 12, 2015, 09:58 AM

Divide and Conquer

I noticed on Jeffhead's thread, providing a video of a Bernie's floor speech, that he specifically tied Bill Clinton to disastrous FTAS.

IMO a significant part of Hillary's name recognition is from President Bill Clinton. There seems to be an opening, like Bernie did, to criticize Bill and force Hillary to support her husband's actions or divorce herself from Bill's harmful signed laws.

Either way she will have to take a public stance or watch the Clinton name be associated with damaging legislation that people can now understand, years later.

This is already happening with NAFTA where she is flipping all over the place.

The financial realm with Bill Clinton should also be pursed.

Switching Hillary voters to Bernie should be a focus, just like Cleita's thread

53 replies, 3230 views

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Divide and Conquer (Original post)
aspirant May 2015 OP
FreakinDJ May 2015 #1
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #2
AtomicKitten May 2015 #3
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #6
smokey nj May 2015 #9
aspirant May 2015 #11
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #17
aspirant May 2015 #20
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #15
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #25
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #29
A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #24
aspirant May 2015 #27
A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #28
aspirant May 2015 #30
A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #31
aspirant May 2015 #32
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #36
aspirant May 2015 #40
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #41
aspirant May 2015 #43
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #45
AtomicKitten May 2015 #34
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #35
AtomicKitten May 2015 #37
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #38
aspirant May 2015 #42
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #44
aspirant May 2015 #46
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #47
aspirant May 2015 #48
Post removed May 2015 #49
AtomicKitten May 2015 #51
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #52
AtomicKitten May 2015 #53
aspirant May 2015 #4
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #13
aspirant May 2015 #19
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #22
A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #39
aspirant May 2015 #50
Doctor_J May 2015 #10
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #14
Doctor_J May 2015 #16
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #18
Cleita May 2015 #5
NYC_SKP May 2015 #7
Cleita May 2015 #8
Doctor_J May 2015 #12
rbnyc May 2015 #21
1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #23
aspirant May 2015 #26
rbnyc May 2015 #33

Response to aspirant (Original post)

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:08 AM

1. like I said Bernie will bring issues others won't talk about

 

And YES it needs to be discussed

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:19 AM

2. Do you really believe HRC supporters or Bernie supporters are switchable? ...

 

Both set of supporters are firm and fixed in their support.

Fishing in one another's tank does us no good ... The focus should be fishing in the ocean of non-HRC/non-Bernie supporters, thereby increasing participation (i.e., voter turn-out).

And, this would best be accomplished by strong positive messaging; rather than, attempting to sully the other Democratic candidate(s) ... I would love all Democratic candidates saying something to the effect of, "All of the Democratic candidates want the same direction for the country, any of us, with your support and effort, will get us their ... And, here is my plan to get us there" and at all costs, refrain from providing attack lines.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:29 AM

3. The object of a primary is to draw a contrast, not sing kumbaya.

 

I get that Hillary supporters don't want the differences in policy pointed out, but that's the object of a primary election. After Hillary went after Obama with a "everything but the kitchen sink" line of attack in the 2008 primary, I assure you she's not a delicate snowflake.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us/politics/26clinton.html?referrer=

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #3)

Tue May 12, 2015, 12:34 PM

6. And one can draw contrast without it becoming a blood sport, no? ...

 

I get that Hillary supporters don't want the differences in policy pointed out


First, I am NOT a HRC supporter ... a call for comity is not a support indicator. Secondly, I have not said anything about NOT pointing out differences ... those are just the voice in your head.

After Hillary went after Obama with a "everything but the kitchen sink" line of attack in the 2008 primary, I assure you she's not a delicate snowflake.


And the result was a number of HRC supporters, NOT voting for Candidate Obama in the general ... fortunately, not enough to affect the general election out come; but, it was/is troublesome, none-the-less.

It amazes me that people are approaching these primaries with a ferocity that, not even their favored candidate, possesses.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #6)

Tue May 12, 2015, 12:58 PM

9. Did you make this appeal to HRC supporters who smeared Bernie as a racist and a sexist?



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026613443

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017263264

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6606799


Note that those links are to threads in GD. You're responding to a post in a group that is a safe haven for supporters of Bernie Sanders.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #9)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:08 PM

11. This is a good involved host

Cheers

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Response to aspirant (Reply #11)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:21 PM

17. I meant no foul. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #17)


Response to smokey nj (Reply #9)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:15 PM

15. I do not read most posts in the GD. ...

 

Sorry ... I did not see that this was posted to the Bernie Group ... I will post a similar appeal to the HRC Group.

ETA: Done ... I posted the appeal to the HRC Group, too.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:09 PM

25. And I responded to you there.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #25)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:27 PM

29. I saw it. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #6)


Response to A-Schwarzenegger (Reply #24)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:20 PM

27. How and where do we get the votes to win

and did you watch Jeffhead's video where Bernie criticized Bill Clinton NAFTA as being "DEAD WRONG"?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #27)


Response to A-Schwarzenegger (Reply #28)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:41 PM

30. Is there any ferociousness in this thread?

"I agree with much of what you're saying" Do you agree with not fishing in another's tank or maybe I should ask what you don't agree with since you agree with much?

Give me a hand here because I'm a little confused.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #30)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:48 PM

31. No, thanks.

What i write applies to myself, myself alone,
and if anybody else gains anything helpful from it,
that's gravy. Peace.

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Response to A-Schwarzenegger (Reply #31)

Tue May 12, 2015, 03:28 PM

32. Peace back

but gravy is a topping, it's the meat and potatoes I was inquiring about.

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Response to A-Schwarzenegger (Reply #31)

Tue May 12, 2015, 07:40 PM

36. How to win friends and influence people ...

 

See the immediately above.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #36)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:18 PM

40. Is friendship always immediate?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #40)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:21 PM

41. No; but, apparently antagonistic replies to those that don't toe the line are. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #41)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:33 PM

43. "toe the line"

Oh you mean that line that got you BANNED from Populist Reform Group.

Going for a second shot in the losers circle?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #43)


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #6)

Tue May 12, 2015, 06:10 PM

34. I will refer you to my post to which you responded.

 

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=5918

I did not say you are a Hillary supporter nor that you are against pointing out differences (voices in your head perhaps?), but your snotty retort due to your lack of reading comprehension earns you a commensurate amount of contempt.

Interestingly now that you mentioned it and contrary to your claim, if truth be told (as illustrated by a quick review of your posting history just now) you definitely are Hillary fanclub adjacent. But I digress.

Screw the PUMA jagoffs. They had about as much effect on the election as fly shit. If Hillary does another faceplant in the primary, I fully expect the same crowd to get their knickers in a twist and slink off back to under the rocks from which they came. I seriously doubt any Bernie Sanders supporter gives them a second thought. Why? Because they are impervious to reason and fair play.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #34)

Tue May 12, 2015, 07:33 PM

35. No ... Voices out of your keyboard ...

 

I get that Hillary supporters don't want the differences in policy pointed out, but that's the object of a primary election.


Yeah ... one with higher writing comprehension skills might read that differently.

Interestingly now that you mentioned it and contrary to your claim, if truth be told (as illustrated by a quick review of your posting history just now) you definitely are Hillary fanclub adjacent. But I digress.


Digress right off the cliff ... Point to a single post where I have stated support for HRC ... at this point, all I can say is I will support her IF she is the democratic nominee ... but I guess the rules for all of DU, as was so eloquently put to me, are those that apply to this Group:

This is Bernie Country. Declaration; If you don't support HRC then you must support Bernie and state it here to continue posting. Our SoP states Bernie supporters so if you are not, pack your bags and find another home.


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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #35)

Tue May 12, 2015, 07:40 PM

37. You've been advised this is a protected group.

 

Try and muster the teensy bit of respect it takes to honor that. 'Kay?

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #37)

Tue May 12, 2015, 07:43 PM

38. So you can post comments; but I can't respond in kind? Gotcha ... I'm gone. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #38)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:26 PM

42. "respond in kind"

You have received exactly the kindness and consideration you have given

BYE, BYE

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Response to aspirant (Reply #42)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:43 PM

44. I said I was gone... and you still poke. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:47 PM

46. If you were gone

how do you know what I am doing?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #46)

Tue May 12, 2015, 08:52 PM

47. With your gracious permission, I request to be allowed to read what is posted ...

 

and respond to those that address me ... pretty pleaseeee!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #47)

Tue May 12, 2015, 09:11 PM

48. When you say that you are gone

and still hang around, you are really not telling the truth.

Being untruthful, does this bother you?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #48)


Response to Post removed (Reply #49)

Tue May 12, 2015, 09:30 PM

51. So,

 

I apologize for my rudeness. I didn't expect to be involved in a fractious exchange here. I sort of looked at this group as a respite from that sort of stuff. I ask you nicely to please respect the intended spirit of this group. There will always be GD.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #51)

Tue May 12, 2015, 09:36 PM

52. And I, likewise ...

 

Please understand, I have no problem with safe zones; but more, I like a lot of what Bernie says, and has stood for all these years. You will never see me write a critical word about him.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #52)

Tue May 12, 2015, 09:46 PM

53. thank you for that

 

cheers

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:30 AM

4. Look at Cleitas thread

This is a democratic primary and each candidate should go after all voters.

Did HRC play nice with Barack Hussein Obama in 2008?

How many uninformed HRC supporters are out there that only see the Clinton name.

Bernie says he's in it to win and that means you go after every possible vote.

"want the same direction for the country" This is a joke, right

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Response to aspirant (Reply #4)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:09 PM

13. Well ...

 

This is a democratic primary and each candidate should go after all voters.

Response: Agreed. But, it is myopic to employ a scorched Earth primary campaign in going after all the voters because: 1) we will need the supporters of the losing candidate for the General Election; and 2) we would benefit from picking up any currently non-aligned voters ... and a scorched Earth primary campaign will sully the Democratic primary victor, whoever that might be.

Did HRC play nice with Barack Hussein Obama in 2008?

Response: Irrelevant; but more, myopically ill advised ... see the above.

How many uninformed HRC supporters are out there that only see the Clinton name.

Response: I don't know ... But I suspect anyone talking about HRC, or Bernie, this early are anything but seeing only a name.

Bernie says he's in it to win and that means you go after every possible vote.

Response: That is redundant to you first point ... see my response to your first point.

"want the same direction for the country" This is a joke, right

Response: No. I am not joking. Funny ... you seem to be more critical of the candidates than Bernie, who wants the Presidency; but, will support HRC (or O'Malley or Chaffee or Webb) should she(he) be the Democratic nominee.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:37 PM

19. This is Bernie Country.

Response; I'm sure your eagerly awaiting the "Blood Oath" tactic for who ever wins the nomination

Response; Extremely relevant, if her historical experiences in politics are being pushed as a positive, then her ruthless actions in 2008 primary is fair game.

Response; See Cleita's thread and how a little info can open peoples eyes, even this early.

Response; Bernie's in it to win it and you go after every vote possible. You have to repeat things at least 3 times before it sinks in.

Response; Supports the nominee doesn't mean he will support legislation going the wrong way.

Declaration; If you don't support HRC then you must support Bernie and state it here to continue posting. Our SoP states Bernie supporters so if you are not, pack your bags and find another home.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #19)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:47 PM

22. Okay. n/t

 

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Response to aspirant (Reply #19)


Response to A-Schwarzenegger (Reply #39)

Tue May 12, 2015, 09:23 PM

50. How do you conclude he

is on the fence? Do you know he is banned from the Populist Reform Group?

Please reread the SoP and if it doesn't say Bernie supporters than I will edit.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:07 PM

10. I understand that you hope not, since Clinton is far ahead

 

The problem is that Sanders and HRC don't want the same direction for the country. Bernie wants healthcare, public education, big DoD cuts, stiff banking regulations, an end to drill baby drill, and worker protections/strong unions. Hillary wants heritage care, privatized schools, more foreign follies, more fossil fuels, and is friends with banksters and wall street in general. Clinton's name recognition and gender will carry her to comfortable victories in the primary and the GE. Some of us hope we can do better, especially since if a fair poll was done issue by issue, Sanders would be shown to be much more in line with most dems.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #10)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:12 PM

14. Funny ...

 

Your assessment of the HRC's desired direction seems far more critical than Bernie's, who wants the Presidency; but, will support HRC (or O'Malley or Chaffee or Webb) should she(he) be the Democratic nominee.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #14)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:20 PM

16. Well, duh

 

I'll vote for her too. And since my assessment is so much harsher than Sanders', why all the bitching from the PUMAs about Bernie's negative campaigning?

Her gender and the insanity of the GOP make Hillary a lock. She will completely ignore all of the pleas to adopt just a few liberal policy initiatives. I would like to same I'm shocked that her fan club is so pissed about the majority half of the party trying to get her to adopt some less Republican positions. But after 6 years of Obama, nothing from the Turd Way or their minions.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #16)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:23 PM

18. Yeah? Okay ...

 

got to the "bitching" part and stopped reading.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Tue May 12, 2015, 10:53 AM

5. The Clintons have always been known for triangulation in their politics.

My objection to Hillary is her association with Henry Kissinger, a man that caused much suffering and death in the country of my birth, Chile. I was born to ex-pat Americans there and am an American from birth but I still have fondness for the country I was born in and would not like to see anything bad happen to it, but it did from Henry Kissinger and the Nixon administration. It is known as the other 9/11, when a CIA coupe replaced elected President Allende and replaced him with dictator Augusto Pinochet. Many were tortured and died because of it. I feel betrayed by Hillary Clinton.

I'm with Bernie all the way.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Tue May 12, 2015, 12:44 PM

7. My problem with her is that she professes to elevate women, by just being a good old boy...

 

She plays the shitty game of politics as slickly as Bill did and does, never elevating the discussion or the profession, just playing the game.

And then pretends that this somehow helps women everywhere.

A real fighter, man or woman, would elevate politics, and a really great woman candidate would prove that she can do it differently, and better, than men have been doing it.

In this sense, she's bringing down women.

IMHO.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue May 12, 2015, 12:53 PM

8. I don't think she does much for women and I can't see why, if women

want a woman President, it has to be this woman. Even one of my good friends wants Hillary just because she's a woman. There are other really great Democratic women out there, who would be far more progressive than her. But my hope is, that if Bernie becomes our candidate in the election, he will select one of those women to be his Veep and if he is elected President he will appoint at least 50% of his cabinet with good progressive women. I don't think Hillary will do that.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:08 PM

12. She, like Obama, will have a chance to make earth-shattering changes in this country.

 

But, also like the president, she will not - it will be four more years of the Bush family rule.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:42 PM

21. once someone supports a candidate...

...It's very hard to move them.

I think the best strategy for winning the primary is to persuade unaffiliated votes to register as Democrats and participate in the primary.

I have always been a registered Democrat in order to support progressive candidates in the primaries, because I am dissatisfied with the direction of the party. But I know many voters who are not registered with party affiliation because they are disillusioned with Democrats and Republicans and are not deeply engaged with another party. I am targeting this group with the bulk of my messaging and outreach.

Our best chance in both the primaries and general election is to attract the anti-establishment vote.

I always make sure to refer to HRC as "the establishment candidate."

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Response to rbnyc (Reply #21)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:49 PM

23. +1 ... Well most of it. n/t

 

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Response to rbnyc (Reply #21)

Tue May 12, 2015, 02:09 PM

26. The uninformed can be informed.

"it is very hard to move them" Please read Cleita's thread and realize this is just the tip of the iceberg.

"best strategy" IMO the best strategy is to go after every vote possible. If you choose to focus on unregistered voters, go for it but realize others may choose a different path to achieve the nomination. I say support all who support Bernie.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #26)

Tue May 12, 2015, 05:03 PM

33. Makes sense

You put it very well, which kind if proves your point.

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