Last night's debate and the coverage made one thing clear:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

No matter how well Bernie does in the polls, no matter what he says or does, no matter how much the voters respond to him, Democratic Party officials and pundits will NOT voice support for him in any measurable way during this primary process. Hillary will ALWAYS be the "winner", because Bernie is an interloper and she is the Party's choice.

Add to that, as I flipped through many channels last night before and after the debate, I noticed that almost every single Democratic pundit featured had been a prior Clinton supporter, campaign member, or administration member. Now how the FUCK does anyone expect those folks to say ANYTHING else but, "Hillary!"

All this means is that we have have to double our efforts to convince voters of Bernie's electability, of the quality of his positions, and the need to mobilize.

[haikugal]

1. Well said, Thank you!!

K&R!

Go Bernie Go!

[enid602]

2. McCarthy

It was definitely a lot easier for Bernie supporters pre Kevin McCarthy. That's the breaks.

[smokey nj]

16. Buh-bye!

[roguevalley]

21. Kevin McCarthy? Hillary should make a cake for Bernie for putting that to rest

mostly. She owes his integrity large.

[wendylaroux]

3. yea I know,they

all treat him like a joke, I've noticed.

Bunch of bought and paid for smug assholes.

[sabrina 1]

38. I'm kind of glad. Because they have so little credibility and are so despised now re what passes for

news, that it would probably hurt Bernie more if they were pushing him. People would be very suspicions.

THIS is what we expect in a system rigged by the Corporations. That their Corporate Controlled Media will support their Corporate Candidate.

If anything this will only encourage people to work even harder so they are so overwhelmed they cannot do a thing to stop him.

[cascadiance]

61. They're fueling the need to put in place a new Telecomm bill to reverse the one signed by Clinton...

back in the 90's that has led to the screwed up media situation we have now. We need to bring back more diversity in media ownership, etc. and more avenues for a real "free press" and not just "infotainment" that has to make money to survive.

We need an FCC not lead by a former Comcast exec any more that won't even THINK about taking down any net neutrality rules.

We're in a battle to help us preserve what our founders had held on to dear as to be the only "industry" that they wanted to protect and that was what they saw as a "free press" that barely exists today, or which is swallowed up these days by the money control of the corporate propaganda mills that constitute the "corporate media".

John McCain's vote against the Telecomm Act is one decent thing he did as a senator that so many others (Democrats included) didn't do in those days, and was a bill that one other Vermont Senator (Patrick Leahy) lead the fight against, albeit more to shut down the Communications Decency Act, which fortunately we didn't have right wing courts in those days so one of them shut that part down as being "unconstitutional", which I think the Clinton administration had counted on happening then when they signed that mess, and no president should ever count on the courts "correcting" parts of a bill that they sign in to law!

[dreamnightwind]

67. Exactly on point! Thank you! - n/t

[glinda]

41. They also treat US a a joke referring to anyone who supports him as "his people".

[wendylaroux]

45. wha??? lol

what does this even mean?

what are her people called?

[Blus4u]

50. Hillarions?

[wendylaroux]

56. damn,

this is worse than fighting over sports teams,well,close.

[glinda]

63. lol

[Le Taz Hot]

4. And if he wins the nomination,

Last edited Wed Oct 14, 2015, 03:48 PM - Edit history (1)

it will be a repeat of the 1980 election where the Democratic Party absolutely RAN from Carter. Gave him NO support. Reagan won. Don't 'cha just love Democracy?

OK, update for a quick history refresher. In 1980, Carter was considered an outsider and wouldn't play the game of cocktail party pay-to-play. They resented him for it. The Democratic party didn't want him in there in the first place and considered him too liberal. They believed that was why they were so woefully behind on fundraising (3:1) and it was because all of that liberally stuff was turning off the big money (enter Clinton 12 years later to save the day). As a result, the Democratic Party's pundits went on TV and sounded exactly like the Republicans in their put-downs of Carter. He got nothing from The Party. They didn't even put up a fight. It was pathetic.

Yes, Iran Hostage Crisis, etc., all went into play but Carter went into the 1980 election season absolutely unprotected.

FF to 2016 and say, Sanders gets the nomination. The Democratic Party will NOT support him because he isn't "their boy." He doesn't belong to them. Hell, he's not even a Democrat so why should they? Once again, Sanders' biggest foe won't be the Republican Party, it will be the Democrats and we have to be ready for that.

[ruffburr]

6. Speak for yourself

[Le Taz Hot]

9. I thought I was.

[roguevalley]

23. its different now. the untapped story of social media which brought him

this far, to beat the pants off the annointed front runner on social media, take the lead in states she has spent money in and he hasn't and by networking for months is the story now. No one knows the depth and breadth of the tidal wave out there and if the fuckers at the DNC and elsewhere can't get in line if he wins, they will get mowed down in the movement that's forming around him. They are making their own irrelevancy.

[Le Taz Hot]

27. I'm talking about what the Democratic Party will do,

or in this case, won't do. They'll pay lip service but they won't give him any real support.

[rhett o rick]

65. The Democratic Party Elite are clearly in the pocket of the Oligarchy. nm

[ejbr]

10. Could you also give me

tonight's lottery numbers?

[Le Taz Hot]

15. What I'm saying . . .

is that if Bernie wins the nomination the biggest foe won't be the Republicans, it will be the Democrats. In 1980 the Democratic Party absolutely abandoned Carter. He wasn't "one of them" and they thought he was too liberal. As a result they gave him zero support and we ended up with Reagan.

I just assumed everyone was familiar with the history.

[roguevalley]

24. the dem establishment that EVERYONE hates. He won't have a problem with the

dem voters. Don't confuse the politburo with the people.

[Le Taz Hot]

29. I'm only addressing the politburo.

The only way to counter the politburo is with an overwhelming support from the populace. I'm not sure, but it sounds like people are choosing to interpret what I wrote with "he can't win." I'm just putting up a caution sign based on past history and the treachery that can be the Democratic Party.

[oberliner]

28. This is completely not true

Carter's approval rating was under 30 percent and Ted Kennedy challenged him for the nomination in 1980 from the left.

[green917]

55. exactly this! ^^^

[Vincardog]

17. Ray Gun "won" by committing treason. His campaign told the Iranians to keep the hostages until

After the election and they could have parts for their airplanes. Israel delivered those parts.
IT is on the record and can not be denied.

[Le Taz Hot]

19. I'm SAYING . . .

that the Democratic Party abandoned him in 1980 and gave him no support. I'll update my post on this because too many people aren't understanding the reference.

[Vincardog]

20. I am SAYING the populous ran from Carter because Raygun committed TREASON. Your

"Take" on history will not change the facts.

Because he "could not get" the hostages returned

[Le Taz Hot]

26. That was part of it, but he had NO backing

from the Democratic Party. Sanders isn't a Democrat, doesn't feed at the corporate trough and he won't be able to play good corporate lackey vs. bad corporate lackey if he wins the nomination. I would think that DWS's actions to date would prove me point.

[Vincardog]

36. The only thing you are proving is that political INSIDERS are $cared $hitle$$

That their "Bad" cop "Worse" cop act played out over the last 40 years is being called.

Bernie has been fighting the entrenched Casino Capitalists all his life
and the PEOPLE are ready to stand up and join him...

That scares the $hit out of them the fact that a major candidate for the highest elected office in the land;
not only is not buying their meme that you have to bend to the interests of BIG MONEY';
but is vowing to fight against their agenda.

That is why the Democratic money machine will not be there for Bernie.

He is building his own base for money and that scares the MONEY Machine most.

WE DON'T NEED THEM

[Le Taz Hot]

44. I think we agree.

I think.

[erronis]

33. I totally agree with you. It's their party and you won't play if they don't want you to.

Carter was not one of the gilded people that had families that had been part of the powerful elite since they swam ashore. He also wasn't glib like Willy, so he was treated as an accidental president by the democrats.

The swanks awaited in their mansions until they could install someone more like them.

Bernie will not be at all like them and will not hobnob at their cocktail parties. However if this grass-roots effort can really take hold - and keep it - power will swing from the upper crust to the rest of us. Fingers crossed!

[Le Taz Hot]

46. Thank you!

I was about to check my surroundings to make sure I hadn't slipped into some alternate reality. Weird.

[DhhD]

73. And the swank are really pissed because an I became a D. Their hierarchy is bruised as they

are unable to pass out lauds for this and that in maintaining a chain of command, work order or assignment. You, Sanders and I are not in that Club.

[sabrina 1]

40. He won't need them, he hasn't needed them so far. If we work hard enough to get people involved

and we are, armies of people are working for him, for free, he will have all the backing he needs. We are in different times now. We have tools people didn't have back then.

[Le Taz Hot]

47. I agree but I think people are so focused on

ensuring he gets the nomination -- which is what we should be doing, but at the same time we have to look ahead. It's a know thine enemy sort of thing and the enemy isn't necessarily who we think it is. The Republicans don't worry me. It's the Democratic Party. It's front loading super delegates. And so much more. I suppose it's the old forewarned is forearmed kind of thing.

[oberliner]

58. You've got your history completely wrong.

In 1980, Carter had been president for 4 years and was no longer an outsider. He was actually considered too much of a centrist and not liberal enough, which was why Ted Kennedy challenged him for the nomination in 1980.

[gregcrawford]

80. Flawlessly elucidated! n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

81. Thanks but I'm thinking

I don't seem to be getting the zeitgeist of the Berne Sanders Group so should probably bow out gracefully here.

[gregcrawford]

83. Democrats are severely lacking...

... the herd instinct that defines Republicans, so it's like herding cats to get them to agree on much of anything. It seems there's a fine line between independent thought and Oppositional/Defiance Disorder. Monty Python did a bit years ago that summed it up perfectly, though I can't recall the name of the skit.

[Snotcicles]

5. Just think how much easier it will be to tell them to piss off, and how shaky their

job security is when he wins.

[stillwaiting]

42. I am shocked we're that high. nt

[Enthusiast]

59. Well, there ya go. We watched an example of it since the debate. The United States should be ashamed

But after the fake presidential election of 2000 and the Iraq War we don't seem to have a sense of shame. Certainly the media has no shame.

[TM99]

8. I totally agree.

I see the same thing.

I am sadly old enough to have seen such bullshit before. It never turns out well.

[MisterP]

11. hence the whole point of his campaign: to have the people elect him into office

without needing to use the party

[wendylaroux]

14. and THAT IS

the "revolution" he is talking about.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

18. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

[Marty McGraw]

34. I wonder if Instant-runoff voting

could take more of a hold and help rid the need of having party backing. Still it wouldn't rid the super-pac bundling for a candidate. But, as we see for now, social media surpasses the hold on any influence this bundling has right now. That could change really easy too.

[Bubzer]

12. You're on point! *reaches into wallet* Time for a third campaign donation I think.

[SheilaT]

13. If he wins in Iowa

or perhaps even if he finishes a strong second, just a couple of points behind the actual winner, they'll be saying things like, "Oh, gosh. Maybe we underestimated him, but not to worry. Iowa is Iowa and doesn't really count."

Then, if he wins New Hampshire, they'll be talking all about how different those two states are from the entire rest of the country, and how his wins there mean absolutely nothing.

I'm not predicting he'll win those (although I think he will), just how the MSM will react if he does.

Then a bunch of states on March 1, and I doubt any one candidate will win them all. Maybe even Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley will each take several. My best guess is that Clinton and Sanders will more or less split those states, and the MSM will basically only report the Clinton wins. Meanwhile, there will be the last two scheduled debates, by which time it will be down to three, or more likely only Clinton and Sanders.

Fasten your seat belts everyone. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. You forgot the "white" part.

Iowa and New Hampshire = white = not important.

My biggest fear is that Bernie's intro to the larger voting population via the limited debates will be too late to overcome the larger Clinton name recognition. I have no doubt that the Party and her campaign are praying she holds on just long enough to where they can wrap up the nomination before The Bern takes hold further.

Bumpy ride, indeed. The Democrats may have on their hands the same problem the GOPers do with a voter population in revolt.

[SheilaT]

43. It's only the middle of October, over a year before

the general election and three months before the first caucus or primary.

Last night lots of people who hadn't really heard of him have now seen and heard him. Keep in mind that at this point in 2007 Barack Obama wasn't doing as well as Bernie is right now.

[ProgressiveJarhead]

25. Even Huffpo is Biased

Nauseating headlines. Sad.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. That's because the media is looking forward to 4 to 8 years of anti-Clinton stories....

Some of them in book form already approved by publicists complete with book tours and appearances on "The View".

[Cheese Sandwich]

31. A pattern...

[erronis]

35. Thanks for putting this together!

As always links pointing to these articles are useful; nay, imperative.

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. I just copied it off twitter

[MisterP]

48. just like her union endorsements!

[JDPriestly]

66. Great post. i hope that you post it as an OP starting a new thread.

[Cheese Sandwich]

76. Well we do have this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251681748

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

71. Perfection. Thank you.

[Samantha]

32. You are just so right

This is playing out a lot like the election 2000 campaign. Remember when Tim Russert, et al., chronically made fun of Al Gore, humiliated him, lied about him, and pumped up George W. Bush*. Remember when in the first debate Bush won? I don't either, and I watched the entire debate very closely, and I never saw that. The fact that GE despised Clinton/Gore for the huge fines that administration forced that corporation to pay for violations of the Clean Water Act and was the owner of NBC at that time was simply a coincidence.

This election will play out on many corporate-owned venues, and probably (just a wild guess) one will see a huge preference given to politicians who "work well" with the corporate community....

Sam

[zentrum]

37. I've even heard...

…that Dem insiders want Biden to run for the very reason that hey are nervous about her likability/electability in the general but do not, above all, want Sanders. That thy were even thinking of asking Kerry or Gore to step in. WTF?

[Blus4u]

52. Of course

That was the whole draft Biden mentality.

Hillary's polls keep sliding...
Bernie's crowds keep growing...
Oh shit, we need a backup plan!
I know, let's draft Joe.

[turbinetree]

49. Yep....................

where was the interviews from the THE YOUNG TURKS, Thom Hartmann, Ring of Fire hosts------------no where

Excellent point



Honk---------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[Jack Rabbit]

51. That's precisely the idea, old friend

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not a fool, either.

Some people are not too happy with me because I still believe Oswald acted alone. I find the idea that "the CIA" killed the president and a lid has been kept on it for 50 years to be preposterous.

However, when the mainstream media is controlled by only six large corporations, we are right to suppose that maybe, just maybe, some very rich men got together in an effort to control the information that the American people get, thus subverting democracy.

While the revolution will not be televised, we'll know when it happens anyway.

[onecaliberal]

53. Hear, hear.

The revolution will NOT be televised. I never expected the to go quietly into the night, but make no mistake. The people are done with the bullshit, and it doesn't matter what the greedy lying idiots on MSM say. It's patently obvious who is for the people.

[Helen Borg]

54. It'll only make her loss more painful...

[Enthusiast]

57. Kicked and recommended! It is perfectly clear.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. We have to have a MASSIVE Bernie voter turnout and I mean MASSIVE.

Voter turnout must be so HUGE, so undeniably in favor of Bernie, the election cannot be stolen via electronic voting machines.

Also, if I were Bernie, I would make sure I have people at EVERY polling place getting exit polling data and watching the ballot vote counts. That's imperative.

There's a reason we still have hackable electronic voting machines and it's not because they aren't hackable or tally votes perfectly.

All I can say, is thank the Goddesses we have the Internet!

[cascadiance]

62. And hopefully Anonymous can shut down election manipulations that Rove's gang will likely try again.

... and where they got embarrassed in the last election when even Fox had to shut down Rove's questioning of their early prognostications of an Obama victory, which Rove obviously felt he had in his pocket the internet means of overturning like he has been rumored to have done back in 2004.

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. Now that we know both parties are CORRUPT to the core,

Anonymous needs to be working throughout the Democratic Primaries in every state, or at least until Bernie has enough EV. Since Bernie's movement is on the Internet and his base is of that Internet savvy generation, I suspect they will be. I hope they will be.

I know both parties hack their way to choosing whichever candidate the PTB want. If either party were interested in fair elections, we'd be voting on paper.

Bernie's Internet army may very well save our Democracy.

[azmom]

64. K&R

[proud patriot]

68. People powered Bernie

[GoneFishin]

70. And if Hillary is the nominee the DNC machine will learn from the close call with Bernie

and take steps to freeze out any future Bernie type candidates.

This may be our last chance to have the peoples' voices heard before the corporatists lock down every avenue for populist policies.

If I were them, looking to make sure future populist candidates were made to shut the hell up, I would be trying to contrive a reason to control information flow on internet forums. The ability for people to read other voter's opinions, and learn that they are not alone, does an end run around media pundits who otherwise would TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK.

[cascadiance]

72. That's why they have Tom Wheeler of Comcast on the FCC to shut down net neutrality...

... at some point when Obama gives him the green light later.

[yuiyoshida]

74. I totally agree with this

K&R

[certainot]

75. one reason hillary dominates media is that rw radio is used to attack her constantly

the msm and it's republican owners and managers feel that overall anti hillary buzz and have filled a lot of time following it- only recently with the mccarthy fuckup has that anti hillary buzz temporarily eased- remember it was all negative until then.

one way bernie can get more press is for him to start mentioning the national problem that is talk radio and maybe even name limbaugh- he wouldn't have to attack, just point out that rw radio is why the republicans have been so effective in their obstruction and why at the same time it is destroying the republican party.

limbaugh is now trying to separate himself from the 'establishment' that gave him his throne and coddled and protected him for so long so he now admits and pimps his part as godfather of the teabaggers - which are the talk radio/dittohead/republican loon base. david brooks recently named limbaugh that way, as a major source of the reballiona and dysfunction. limbaugh is supporting trump and will need a major excuse to pivot to bush/rubio but without his support the gop will really lose big. he knows that and he will leverage it, like he did to get palin onto the mccain ticket.

every major issue bernie addresses and seeks reform on needs major reform because rw radio has been so effectively used to short circuit/shout over/distort the feedback mechanisms a democracy depends on - from deregulated media and wall st to the war machine to campaign finance to global warming - they are all items we could have adjusted/reformed years ago if not in large part because the left has given limbaugh and sons and the republicans best weapon a free speech free ride for 25 years.

bernie supporters can get bernie a lot more attention, as weell as improve election results for dems in general, by giving attention to republican talk radio and making it a focal point by:

by monitoring it and pointing out how it drives the msm and the new republican party

by protesting stations that give platform to those who attack bernie, which has barely started and will ramp up significantly if he's the candidate (see, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251608281 for bernie assassination 'jokes', etc).

by, better yet, protesting the 90+ universities that keep the right wing radio monopoly going, and destroy it before the next elections

[Fearless]

77. Let them!

Because of their blindness they will continue to underestimate what will happen on primary days.

[arcane1]

78. Damn right!

That's the revolution everyone is talking about: involved and engaged citizens!

[sammythecat]

79. I see that too, it's so obvious and it's sickening.

They won't so much as utter his name unless they absolutely have to. To the fat cat pathologically selfish pricks of this country Bernie is bad news. The idea of giving up a dollar outrages them, buy if they could take a dollar from someone with ten they would. As fast as they could and then try to do it again.

They are the ones who own and run the media in this country. They can't buy shares in Bernie, they have no control over him, he's not a fan of greed and they do not want him elected. If it's going to be a Democrat, they want Hillary. They can work with her. Unless it would benefit her more, personally, to not cooperate, then she'd go the other way, but that's a very unlikely scenario.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

82. The oligarchy will not go quietly. n/t