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Flying Squirrel

(3,041 posts)
Mon Nov 16, 2015, 11:34 PM Nov 2015

Well I'm convinced. I've been backing the wrong candidate.

Hillary 63% Bernie 29%. And all the lamenting in the world won't change those numbers.

Sanders supporters, please list the polls that you find acceptable.

Oh, snap! Because no underdog in the polls has EVER come back to win an election. What was I thinking? How could I have been so foolish? Except in 2007 of course when I was rooting for Obama and every day someone made a point of posting a poll showing him behind in one aspect or another, some state or another, the entire country, lost that debate, etc etc.

"But Bernie is no Obama! Things are different this time around!"

I'll tell you one thing that's the same: Hillary is still Hillary. Obama didn't win solely because he was Obama -- he also won because he was not Hillary. He had no more foreign policy experience than she did (possibly less) but that didn't translate into victory for her. All the polls in the world can't change the fact that likeability matters, and history sometimes repeats itself. Just ask Mitt Romney.
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Well I'm convinced. I've been backing the wrong candidate. (Original Post) Flying Squirrel Nov 2015 OP
Excellent post. Hepburn Nov 2015 #1
Needed that reminder Android3.14 Nov 2015 #2
So true, so well said. Thank you. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #3
Excellent OP! SoapBox Nov 2015 #4
Hillary is still Hillary! Paka Nov 2015 #5
Yes - perfect. 840high Nov 2015 #8
No question that Bernie is in tough Jarqui Nov 2015 #6
And another point...the national polls mean nothing right now... CoffeeCat Nov 2015 #7
The 9/11 remark is going to go over badly on Main Street. winter is coming Nov 2015 #11
"Bernie is not Obama!" Bernin4U Nov 2015 #9
K&R! marym625 Nov 2015 #10
True: Bernie is no Obama. winter is coming Nov 2015 #12
Lol, I just had the same sense of deja vu when I was told that 'Bernie is no Obama'. True, Bernie is sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #13
It all comes down to "who do you trust?", yet Hillary has never been consistent. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #14
She seems a little more smug and entitled this time around. senz Nov 2015 #15
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
3. So true, so well said. Thank you.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 12:09 AM
Nov 2015

I have nothing to add that would probably not get a hide, so I'll leave it at that.

GO BERNIE!!

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
4. Excellent OP!
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 12:25 AM
Nov 2015

And ya know...I've been thinking...

All her blather about being a Senator for NY...and 9/11...and Wall Street...blah, blah, blah.

Well Hill...you ain't the Senator any longer so stop shilling it for the Banksters and Wall Street.

But...Hillary is Hillary and things don't change.

Jarqui

(10,928 posts)
6. No question that Bernie is in tough
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 12:35 AM
Nov 2015

Part of what is driving the polls lately are the big ad buys Clinton made

But I agree that it isn't over.

I'll tell you one thing that's the same: Hillary is still Hillary. Obama didn't win solely because he was Obama -- he also won because he was not Hillary. He had no more foreign policy experience than she did (possibly less) but that didn't translate into victory for her. All the polls in the world can't change the fact that likeability matters, and history sometimes repeats itself. Just ask Mitt Romney.


Have to agree.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
7. And another point...the national polls mean nothing right now...
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 12:57 AM
Nov 2015

Just as in 2008, the national polls mean next to nothing. At this time in our Democratic primary process, Obama was far behind in every national poll. In most states, he was behind well into the double digits; in many states Obama was behind Hillary by 40+ points.

And yes, just like 2008--all of these polls are touted by Hillary and her minions, as evidence of her inevitability.

These national polls mean very little because it is the state polls that mean the most.

Since we have individual states vote one-by-one--those state polls mean the most.

Does anyone remember how Obama was polling, at this juncture in 2007? Ten weeks before the Iowa caucus, Obama was 10 points behind Hillary. Today, Sanders is just 15 points behind Hillary.

Despite being 10 points behind, ten weeks out--Obama won the Iowa caucuses by 8 points. In ten weeks, Obama gained 18 points.

Anything can happen in Iowa. Support for Clinton is soft. She came in third last time. She doesn't play very well here with her impersonal, canned campaigning.

If Bernie can kick his campaign into high gear for the remainder of his Iowa campaign, he can win the Iowa caucuses. Even coming in a strong 2nd would be wonderful. He's likely to win NH, as he has been ahead in most polls.

So, don't worry so much about those national polls. They were useless in 2008. Hillary was winning ALL of them at this point and Obama was our nominee. When the campaigns roll into these states, the dynamic quickly changes and voters become engaged. Hillary has the advantage at first, because of name recognition--but in many states that advantage will erode. Especially if Sanders does well in Iowa and wins NH.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
11. The 9/11 remark is going to go over badly on Main Street.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 01:35 AM
Nov 2015

And I'm not convinced it's over. She will be asked about that answer again, and she has two options: try to backpedal or double down. Neither is likely to end well.

Bernin4U

(812 posts)
9. "Bernie is not Obama!"
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 01:31 AM
Nov 2015

No, Bernie is not young, black, and polished. How clever of you to notice.

Although they did have that thing about shattering records for their numbers of small donors. And for energizing huge groups of voters who don't go for politics as usual, and who fly under the radar as far as any traditional polling.

But that can't be it...

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
12. True: Bernie is no Obama.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 01:36 AM
Nov 2015

Obama was the best choice available at the time.

Bernie is the real deal.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
13. Lol, I just had the same sense of deja vu when I was told that 'Bernie is no Obama'. True, Bernie is
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 02:14 AM
Nov 2015

now ahead of where Obama was at this point in the campaign.

But you're right, Hillary is still Hillary and her supporters are still the same.

I like the way things are right now. History appears to be repeating itself.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
14. It all comes down to "who do you trust?", yet Hillary has never been consistent.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 02:44 AM
Nov 2015

When someone called her campaign "Camp Weathervane", it was the most accurate description of Hillary's campaign for President.
She is her own worst enemy, she is a lousy candidate.
She says the wrong thing all of the time.
When she invoked 9/11 during the last debate, it was the stupidest thing she could have ever said, coming a day after the attacks in Paris.
She is not endearing to voters in any way possible, just pandering.
She can't bring any new Democrats to Congress because she doesn't have coattails.

In the final analysis, she is only running to become the President for herself, the hell with anyone else!!!!!!!!!!!



 

senz

(11,945 posts)
15. She seems a little more smug and entitled this time around.
Tue Nov 17, 2015, 02:56 AM
Nov 2015

I don't think I've heard her speak from the heart yet. She doesn't seem to take the debates seriously, it's as if they're a mere formality she has to go through.

Bernie and Martin are far more grounded and sincere.

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