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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:02 PM

 

"Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was?"

"Joe Biden once called state-mandated school integration “the most racist concept you can come up with,” and Barack Obama “the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean.” He was a staunch opponent of “forced busing” in the 1970s, and leading crusader for mass incarceration throughout the ‘80s and ‘90s. Uncle Joe has described African-American felons as “predators” too sociopathic to rehabilitate — and white supremacist senators as his friends.

And, as of this writing, a plurality of black Democrats want him to be their party’s 2020 nominee.

Whether Biden can retain that support, after voters learn more about his problematic past, could very well determine the outcome of the party’s primary race. To explore that question, let’s pick through the former vice-president’s hefty baggage on racial justice — and then, the case for thinking that Obama’s halo will prove to be brighter than the shadow of Biden’s record is dark.

Biden helped kill the most effective policy for improving black educational attainment that America has ever known.

Joe Biden was for desegregating America’s schools, until his constituents were against it. When the Delaware Democrat launched his first campaign for the Senate in 1972, the Supreme Court had just ruled that the Constitution required policymakers to pursue “the greatest possible degree of actual desegregation” — and that forcing white students to attend schools in black neighborhoods, and vice versa, was a legitimate means of doing so. Being an enlightened liberal, Biden began his candidacy as an advocate for such policies. He accused Republicans of demagoguing the busing issue, and appealing to white voters’ ugliest instincts.

But as his campaign progressed, and Biden discerned that the arc of history was bending toward white backlash, the young candidate bent with it. He became a caricature of a white northern liberal — arguing that forced busing was appropriate for the South (where segregation was the product of racist laws), but unnecessary for the North (where, Biden pretended, it merely reflected the preferences of the white and black communities).

Once in the Senate, Biden continued to triangulate, voting for most, though not all, f the anti-busing amendments that came before him. But for his overwhelmingly white constituents, nothing less than massive resistance to busing would suffice. The New Castle County Neighborhood Schools Association booed Biden off the stage at one event in 1974. One year later, the Delaware senator broke ranks with northern liberals— and joined his virulently racist North Carolina colleague Jesse Helms in voting to kneecap all federal efforts to integrate schools, anywhere in the country. Specifically, Biden voted to bar the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare from requiring schools to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies — thereby making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate."

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html

I think the single biggest favor anyone ever did for Biden was when President Obama selected him for VP.

It let Biden have 8 years of serving in the first African American presidential administration and THAT helped diminish a lot of Biden's problematic past positions on racial issues.

Well, on the upside, Trump won't use any of this material against Biden in the general election, his base might like the anti-busing stuff.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply "Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was?" (Original post)
uawchild May 2019 OP
brush May 2019 #1
uawchild May 2019 #5
Hortensis May 2019 #14
uawchild May 2019 #17
emulatorloo May 2019 #34
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #52
BannonsLiver May 2019 #64
George II May 2019 #65
ehrnst May 2019 #84
LanternWaste May 2019 #75
lapucelle May 2019 #49
mcar May 2019 #51
BeckyDem May 2019 #58
mr_lebowski May 2019 #76
George II May 2019 #85
mr_lebowski May 2019 #88
delisen May 2019 #77
George II May 2019 #42
lpbk2713 May 2019 #2
uawchild May 2019 #4
ehrnst May 2019 #15
uawchild May 2019 #21
George II May 2019 #25
uawchild May 2019 #26
emulatorloo May 2019 #38
lapucelle May 2019 #55
sheshe2 May 2019 #56
qazplm135 May 2019 #28
ehrnst May 2019 #74
George II May 2019 #22
LongtimeAZDem May 2019 #24
R B Garr May 2019 #43
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #54
sheshe2 May 2019 #59
progressoid May 2019 #27
beachbum bob May 2019 #3
uawchild May 2019 #6
sheshe2 May 2019 #70
uawchild May 2019 #81
StarfishSaver May 2019 #35
mcar May 2019 #53
sheshe2 May 2019 #71
Cha May 2019 #83
NYMinute May 2019 #7
uawchild May 2019 #8
NYMinute May 2019 #9
uawchild May 2019 #11
Cha May 2019 #72
ehrnst May 2019 #78
Cha May 2019 #79
StarfishSaver May 2019 #16
Skya Rhen May 2019 #10
oasis May 2019 #12
StarfishSaver May 2019 #13
still_one May 2019 #40
nolabear May 2019 #61
Kahuna7 May 2019 #18
LongtimeAZDem May 2019 #19
loyalsister May 2019 #20
peggysue2 May 2019 #23
Cha May 2019 #29
peggysue2 May 2019 #32
Skya Rhen May 2019 #30
emulatorloo May 2019 #36
StarfishSaver May 2019 #37
peggysue2 May 2019 #39
Hassler May 2019 #31
Kurt V. May 2019 #33
George II May 2019 #41
uawchild May 2019 #44
George II May 2019 #45
emulatorloo May 2019 #73
StarfishSaver May 2019 #46
Gothmog May 2019 #47
still_one May 2019 #48
Cha May 2019 #60
still_one May 2019 #62
George II May 2019 #67
StarfishSaver May 2019 #69
George II May 2019 #66
mcar May 2019 #50
betsuni May 2019 #57
BannonsLiver May 2019 #63
sheshe2 May 2019 #68
JI7 May 2019 #82
BannonsLiver May 2019 #86
Gothmog May 2019 #80
corbettkroehler May 2019 #87

Response to uawchild (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:09 PM

1. Sure are a lot of anit-Biden posts on DU lately. Guess he's scared...

 

a bunch of supporters of other candidates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brush (Reply #1)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:09 PM

5. Who do you think is scared? lol

 

Not me. I have faith the primary voters will do what they feel is best for the country, including listening to all the facts about all the candidates's positions and records.

I think Biden and Sanders, both in their late 70's, are just too old to best represent our party in 2020. I think several of the candidates who are in their prime of their lives are qualified and best prepared to face the rigors of office that being president brings. That office accelerates aging, every single president leaves looking physically worn out.

At 76 an 77 years, respectively, Biden and Sanders have about a 50% chance of dying or getting Alzheimers during their time as president if elected.

Age related cognitive mental decline is real and well studied.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #5)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:47 PM

14. :) And yet you're posting against Biden, who belies

 

your hopes by being very far out ahead. You're wrong for, above all, the simple reason that America knows Biden and likes him. BOTH are HUGE.

Further, most who will be voting actually once approved his past actions -- in the past. And if they didn't, their parents did. THAT's HUGE.

Not me after Anita Hill, but I finally would be okay with him as our nominee now in large part because Obama, with whom Biden worked closely, thinks very well of him. Don't fool yourself that isn't HUGE. It is.

On the plus side for you apparently, this will be a boringly long haul and his poll lead will diminish somewhat for a variety of reasons that all boil down to the reality that, once initial commitment to party is comfortably satisfied, voters will explore other choices. But all the other reasons will remain.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #14)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:02 PM

17. lol, I think it's called vetting, and all sides do it.

 

I take your point though.

When supporters of a primary candidate post about the records of other candidates they are trying to effect primary voters, and they do so by vetting them and pointing out what they consider shortcomings in their records.

And to be fair, the leading candidates take the most heat when this happens.

As front runner, Biden is under increased scrutiny, that's very true. But, to quote Biden, c'mon man Sanders gets his record examined at about the same intensity here on DU as far as I can tell.

So, I guess by that standard, perhaps Biden supporters are scared of Sanders still. Seems so and kinda makes sense.

I am sure if and when another front runner emerges, they will get the same level of scrutiny that Biden and Sanders are receiving at the moment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #17)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:04 PM

34. A barrage of hit pieces is not "vetting". We're united Democrats, not operatives out to destroy Dems

 

Too soon to go scorched earth.

Actually why don’t we avoid going scorched earth and be colleagial this Primary season?

We must win, we don’t win by tearing down any of our candidates and feeding talking points to Putin and Trump.

Thanks and
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #34)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:24 PM

52. Tell that to Bernie!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #52)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:51 PM

64. Bernie made himself the exception.

 

When he wanted Obama primaried in 2012, when he voted against sanctioning Russia, with his lousy record on guns.

Bernie is tanking and that’s good news for those of us who are serious about winning next year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #52)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:22 PM

65. Better yet, tell that to Nina Turner, Briahna Gray, David Sirota, Cornell West, and Susan Sarandon.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #65)

Wed May 8, 2019, 12:57 PM

84. +1000. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #17)

Tue May 7, 2019, 09:34 AM

75. You allege it's vetting.

 

You may allege yours is merely vetting, but the totality of concern I see from Biden's position as front runner belies that allegation. The consistency of attacking one's opponent rather than commending one's proponent illustrates it as such.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #5)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:19 PM

49. It's pretty obvious who's scared.

 

Have a donut . You'll feel better.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #49)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:24 PM

51. Uh huh

 

And let's not overlook what seems to be casual racism in the article, assuming that POC haven't learned these bad, bad things about Biden yet.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #51)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:16 PM

58. +1.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #51)

Tue May 7, 2019, 09:54 AM

76. You've got to be kidding ... if you walked thru a mall in the US and asked who Obama's VP was

 

I'd bet money that no more than 60% could recall the name 'Joe Biden' off the top of their head. Hell, if you asked who the VP is NOW it wouldnt' be much higher than 60%.

Yet you think a good number of American's are well-versed on Biden's 1970's voting record on the subject of School Integration/Busing?

And suggesting otherwise implies ... racism?

Yeah, okay

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #76)

Wed May 8, 2019, 01:15 PM

85. Joe Biden was NEVER against school integration, he was against busing. Integration is a result....

 

....busing is a method.

They are two totally separate, distinct issues.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #85)

Wed May 8, 2019, 06:48 PM

88. Thanks for the clarification :)

 

Not really the point I was getting at, but ... good to know.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #5)

Tue May 7, 2019, 10:19 AM

77. Science does not support theory of faster aging of presidents

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to brush (Reply #1)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:44 PM

42. And curiously those who profess a preferred candidate rarely, if ever, post about their own.

 

Curious, isn't it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:17 PM

2. That's it? That't the best you can do?

 




From the 1970's??



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #2)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:01 PM

4. cough Jesse Helms cough

 

The fact that Biden saw fit to work with racist Senator Jesse Helms to oppose desegregation make's it reasonable to ask if he has the political backbone NOW not to similarly comprise his positions in any efforts to "be civil" and "work with" the current rThugs in the senate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:57 PM

15. cough Sierra Blanca cough

 

While we're on the topic... I have to wonder if that same question applies to "environmental racism" as Paul Wellstone called some legislation concerning locating a nuclear waste dump at " target="_blank">Sierra Blanca, a low income primarily Hispanic community, in 1998, and if it would be reasonable to ask if any Senator fast tracking that legislation has the political backbone NOW not to similarly compromise his positions to consider non-white communities in Texas to be as valuable as white communities in New England, not to mention environmental protection, especially if that Senator's spouse was still receiving income from that waste dump at least through 2014.

Do you think it does?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #15)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:32 PM

21. cough are you mistaking me for a Sanders supporter? cough lol

 

Honestly, I say this all the time and I even said it elsewhere already in this thread:

I feel that Biden and Sanders, at 76 and 77 years of age respectively, are both too old to best represent our party best in 2020.

We have a host of other candidates that are well qualified and in the prime of their lives and are ready to meet the rigors that being President would impose on them. The job is grueling and prematurely ages everyone that has held the office.

Age related cognitive decline is real and well studied; both Biden and Sanders will experience accelerating cognitive decline thru their late 70's and as they enter their 80's. It's a hard reality we should consider when selecting our nominee.

I used to feel that Warren was also too old, or at least on the bubble of being too old at age 69 but research says compared to similarly age men, women experience only 60% the rate of cognitive decline as they grow older. So at 69, and being a women, I think Warren is ready to accept the challenges of being president for the next 8 years or so.

I hope that clears up my portion on both Biden and Sanders.

As for the issue you alluded to about Sierra Blanca, I would encourage you to post a an OP detailing the issue and your concerns about how it reflects on Sander's record. I would love to read it.

Both Biden and Sanders have track records that have strengths and weaknesses. Its good, as the 2 current from runners, that they get the most scrutiny at this time.Please vet all the candidates on any and all issues that speak to your concerns, this is the time to do that as we select our nominee.

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to make my position clear on the current Biden-Sanders drama that seems, in my opinion, to lower the level of discourse here on DU.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #21)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:44 PM

25. cough, I don't recall you ever posting about Booker, although you may have.....

 

.....not even in this 9 paragraph post.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #25)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:47 PM

26. You seemed to have realized halfway thru your post you might be wrong... lol

 

Last edited Mon May 6, 2019, 10:53 PM - Edit history (2)

But to be honest, there are so many posts about the leading 2 candidates, they do tend to get a lot of responses from everyone.

I have also replied in threads to support several other of the younger candidates beside Cory, and expect, for example to be posting in threads about Warren and Harris even more as they emerge during the debates and primaries too.

My preferred candidate, Booker, is hangin on by his finger nails for serious consideration. His fund raising is lagging and he will need a great performance in the debates to try to close the gap.

Booker is incredibly strong on social justice issues and has spoken out on the challenges minorities continue to face more than any other candidate, at least in my opinion. I hope Cory can at least remain a serious contender for a spot on the presidential ticket as VP because of this. In the quest to win over old white Rust Belt trump voters, I hope someone keeps speaking out strongly for people of color, the heart of the democratic base.

Right now, the media just isn't giving much coverage to Booker as a candidate, so there are many less articles about him to comment on. Also, it's early in the campaign, not many official campaign positions are being put out to comment on either. And as for polls, well, I did cheer Cory for getting 3% and hanging on to 7th place in the standings. lol I hope as the debates start up, Booker will get more coverage, put out more positions and be able to get the press that can keep him in the running.

But once again... you do know that I think Biden and Sanders are both too old to represent our party best in 2020, right?

Need it spelled out more? OK, how's this... Biden, at age 76, and Sanders, at age 77 are in my opinion TOO OLD to be our nominee 2020. At the end of their possible first term, BOTH will be in their EIGHTIES.

That's just too old to face the rigors of being President. The job is grueling and adds ten years onto everyone that has ever held the office. We have excellent qualified candidates that are decades younger that all would represent the party better in 2020. I hope the primary voters select one of those to be our nominee, but we will ALL VOTE for our nominee WHOMEVER the voters select.

-rolls eyes -
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #26)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:14 PM

38. Then why aren't you posting positive threads about Booker rather than attempting to 'destroy' others

 

I am still undecided. Why don’t you post some positive threads about Booker and help convince me?

That would be very productive and unifying.

Totally up to you of course.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #26)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:35 PM

55. Then why the shade for Biden only? What about the pro-gun, pro-Russia votes in very recent sessions

 

of Congress? I see no problem with Democratic voters trusting Joe Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #55)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:00 PM

56. Lots of coughing here. I thought flu season was over.

 

When coffee and donuts don't work...I suggest Vicks.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #25)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:48 PM

28. cough...my throat's kinda scratchy so I really just have to cough..

 

cough.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #21)

Tue May 7, 2019, 08:01 AM

74. Cough when did I refer to you as a Sanders supporter? cough

 

I was asking about double standards, concerning "racism" and votes, and if you applied them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:33 PM

22. MANY Democrats worked with Jesse Helms over the years, primarily to GET THINGS DONE! At least....

 

....Biden didn't make up excuses for voting against bad bills or voting against good bills.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #22)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:42 PM

24. This is the saddest part of all of this; partisan obstruction has gone on so long that many now

 

seem to believe that it is how the government is supposed to function.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:45 PM

43. I'll trust Obama who was not concerned over trumped

 

up Whataboutism’s from one person’s campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:27 PM

54. The time for civility towards RethugliKKKons is long past... certainly we've learned that by NOW!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:23 PM

59. Have a Vicks.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #2)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:48 PM

27. Expect it to come up repeatedly over the next 18 months

 

As well as other not so pleasant things from the 70's, 80's, 90's etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:17 PM

3. All black voters have to remember is what Trump and GOP are doing

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #3)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:10 PM

6. And vote for one of several great democratic candidates that might be nominee. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #6)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:56 PM

70. You mean Cory, correct?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #70)

Tue May 7, 2019, 11:17 PM

81. Anyone one not in their 70's actually.

 

I am rooting that Cory or any of the excellent younger candidates catch on with the primary voters. I feel that at Biden and age 76 and Sanders at age 77 are both too old to best represent our party as the 2020 nominee.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #3)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:07 PM

35. And black voters definitely don't need to be reminded what we should be paying attention to

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #3)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:27 PM

53. Why do you assume voters of color

 

"have to remember?" I trust that most, of not all, voters of color have their wits about them when they choose a candidate. It is presumptuous of any white person to say otherwise.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #53)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:57 PM

71. Correct.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #53)

Wed May 8, 2019, 03:19 AM

83. Exactly, mcar.. African

 

Americans are high information voters.. always have been.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:11 PM

7. Biden was ONLY against busing as a way to effect desegregation

 

So was Thurgood Marshall

In Milliken v Bradley 418 U.S. 717 (1974) which was about forced busing of students in Detroit, Thurgood Marshall voted against busing.

In his dissenting opinion, Justice Marshall wrote:
School district lines, however innocently drawn, will surely be perceived as fences to separate the races when, under a Detroit-only decree, white parents withdraw their children from the Detroit city schools and move to the suburbs in order to continue them in all-white schools.


What anti-busing people said turned out to be true, that it will make whites leave cities and leave schools segregated all over again. They wanted a better solution. Biden and Marshall's prophecy came true. See the Law Review article below.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/418/717/

Law Review article Here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #7)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:20 PM

8. Biden joined in with Jesse Helms, the biggest racist in the Senate at the time.

 

"But for his (Biden's) overwhelmingly white constituents, nothing less than massive resistance to busing would suffice. The New Castle County Neighborhood Schools Association booed Biden off the stage at one event in 1974. One year later, the Delaware senator broke ranks with northern liberals— and joined his virulently racist North Carolina colleague Jesse Helms in voting to kneecap all federal efforts to integrate schools, anywhere in the country. Specifically, Biden voted to bar the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare from requiring schools to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies — thereby making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate."

making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate... that speaks volumes.

Here is why this is an issue we should care about today: Back in 1974 Biden didn't just "be civil" to republican senators, he abandoned his principles and threw in with THE WORST RACIST in the Senate.

So when Biden started calling Trump an "aberration" and saying he wants to return to the days of by-partisan civility, people get really nervous that he will once again abandon his principles for political expediency.

That seems like a reasonable concern to consider.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #8)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:25 PM

9. lol .. nice try

 

such a racist guy as you claim Biden is and Obama chose him as his VP.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #9)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:35 PM

11. invoking the Obama HALO EFFECT? That's a weak defense of Biden's actual record

 

As I stated in my OP:

I think the single biggest favor anyone ever did for Biden was when President Obama selected him for VP.

It let Biden have 8 years of serving in the first African American presidential administration and THAT helped diminish a lot of Biden's problematic past positions on racial issues.


Biden's lack of political backbone in the past wasn't so much of an issue for when he ran as VP since VP's don't get held to the same level of scrutiny as the President does. People viewed VP Biden as good natured Uncle Joe, and even made kindhearted jokes about him washing his car in the White House driveway.

He wasn't taken seriously by most people as VP because to quote John Nance Garner, “the vice presidency is not worth a bucket of warm spit.”
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/53402

Now that Biden is running again for President, his record is going to be held to a much higher level of scrutiny, and that makes sense.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #11)

Tue May 7, 2019, 01:32 AM

72. President Obama disagrees with your insults..

 

VP was taken very seriously by most Democrats. Just because you're insulting him now.. and bringing up that old John Nance quote.. means absolutely nothing.

In A Surprise Send-Off, Obama Awards Biden Presidential Medal Of Freedom

snip//

Calling the former longtime Delaware senator "the best vice president America's ever had" and a "lion of American history," Obama gave his White House partner the surprise award in an emotional ceremony, initially billed as a farewell.

After extolling the job that Biden has done, Obama ended it with the unexpected news that he was giving the vice president the nation's highest civilian honor, with distinction — a designation most recently given to President Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul II and Gen. Colin Powell.

"To know Joe Biden is to know love without pretense, service without self-regard, and to live life fully," Obama said.

snip//

Throughout the ceremony it was evident not just how close the two men were but how close their families and staffs had become, and Obama said his "family is honored to call ourselves honorary Bidens."

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/12/509545778/in-surprise-send-off-president-obama-awards-biden-presidential-medal-of-freedom

Transcript of President Obama's speech..

He fought to make college more affordable and revitalized American manufacturing, as the head of our middle-class taskforce. He suited up for Our Cancer Moonshot and giving hope to millions of Americans touched by this disease.

He led our efforts to combat gun violence. And he rooted out any possible misappropriations that might’ve occurred. And as a consequence, the recovery act worked as well as just about any large- scale stimulus project has ever worked in this country. He visited college after college and made friends with Lady Gaga…

Behind the scenes, Joe’s candid honest council has made me a better president and a better commander in chief. From the Situation Room, to our weekly lunches, to our huddles after everybody else has cleared out of the room, he’s been unafraid to give it to me straight, even if we disagree.

In fact, especially, when we disagree. And all of this makes, in my belief, the finest vice president we have ever seen. And I also think he has been a lion of American history.
The best part is, he’s no where close to finished. In the years ahead as a citizen, he will continue to build on that legacy internationally and domestically. He’s got a voice of vision and reason and optimism and love for people and we’re gonna need that — that spirit and that vision as we continue to try to make our world safer and to make sure that everybody’s got a fair shot in this country.

snip//

So all told, that’s a pretty remarkable legacy, an amazing career in public service. It is, as Joe once said, “a big deal.”

Much More..
http://time.com/4633826/joe-biden-obama-presidential-medal-freedom/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #72)

Tue May 7, 2019, 10:20 AM

78. That'll leave a mark.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #78)

Tue May 7, 2019, 02:56 PM

79. You'd think..

 

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #7)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:57 PM

16. Thurgood Marshall wasn't opposed to busing

 

Milliken v. Bradley didn't rule on the legality of busing and the quote from Thurgood Marshall was not referencing busing, at all. In fact, if you read his whole dissent, you will see that he specifically defended the use of busing as one means to achieve desegregation.

Although the majority gives this last matter only fleeting reference, it is plain that one of the basic emotional and legal issues underlying these cases concerns the propriety of transportation of students to achieve desegregation. While others may have retreated from its standards, see, e.g., Keyes, 413 U.S. at 217 (POWELL, J., concurring in part and dissenting in part), I continue to adhere to the guidelines set forth in Swann on this issue. See 402 U.S. at 231. And though no final desegregation plan is presently before us, to the extent the outline of such a plan is now visible, it is clear that the transportation it would entail will be fully consistent with these guidelines.

First of all, the metropolitan plan would not involve the busing of substantially more students than already ride buses... With respect to distance and amount of time traveled, 17 of the outlying school districts involved in the plan are contiguous to the Detroit district. The rest are all within 8 miles of the Detroit city limits ... As far as economics are concerned, a metropolitan remedy would actually be more sensible than a Detroit-only remedy. ...

Desegregation is not and was never expected to be an easy task. Racial attitudes ingrained in our Nation's childhood and adolescence are not quickly thrown aside in its middle years. But just as the inconvenience of some cannot be allowed to stand in the way of the rights of others, so public opposition, no matter how strident, cannot be permitted to divert this Court from the enforcement of the constitutional principles at issue in this case. Today's holding, I fear, is more a reflection of a perceived public mood that we have gone far enough in enforcing the Constitution's guarantee of equal justice than it is the product of neutral principle of law. In [p815] the short run, it may seem to be the easier course to allow our great metropolitan areas to be divided up each into two cities — one white, the other black — but it is a course, I predict, our people will ultimately regret. I dissent. https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Milliken_v._Bradley/Dissent_Marshall


Please don't mischaracterize Justice Marshall's views.

FYI, "forced busing" is a loaded term, like "Democrat Party."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:33 PM

10. Yes, we will still love Joe! That won't change...

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:38 PM

12. Obama's praise of Biden at the close of the 2020 Dem convention

 

will bring any fence sitting black voters back into the fold.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:39 PM

13. How would black voters know who and who not to support if white people didn't educate us

 

and remind us about what we should remember? Thank you, Eric Levitz, for 'splaining it to us!

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #13)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:42 PM

40. Priceless ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #13)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:44 PM

61. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:04 PM

18. Remember? It would take seniors citizens to "remember." And we're pragmatic

 

enough to view those controversies in the context of the time when they occurred.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:28 PM

19. Go for it; try to paint Biden as a racist. It will probably not turn out the way you want.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:29 PM

20. I'd like to know if he remembers who he was

 

We have seen how politicians and millions of well meaning white people looked away from the subtle and very normal aspects of white supremacy. Many of us found ourselves stunned when openly malicious bigotry resurfaced after Obama was elected. We had not come as far as we thought we had.

I suppose it might be comforting to try to go back and pretend we had, and all of the sudden things got worse with the appearance of an aberration. But returning to comfort at a time when it is glaring at us would be to bury our heads in the sand.

Are we now regretful and wanting to do better or do we want to defend, dismiss, and ignore it because it's not as visibly hateful as what we now have?
Or....
Well, on the upside, Trump won't use any of this material against Biden in the general election, his base might like the anti-busing stuff.

Another question is are white people really going to celebrate when polls look like we are all on board returning to or excusing the not so glorious "normal" because of a belief that it's the only way to beat Trump?
I don't know how Black voters I don't know think about it. I know what my Black friends have told me. I'm interested to know what other white voters think when they remember. Or if they will defend, dismiss, and ignore history because "normal" was easier.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:34 PM

23. The piece suggests the AA community doesn't know its own mind and

 

has lapses in memory about a man who has been on the scene for decades.

In fact, interviews on the ground indicate that everyone--including POC--know exactly who Joe Biden is, know the man's history, the good and the bad, and still support him. Something like 48% of black women at this early date support Biden and black men are not far behind. The numbers coming out of South Carolina are impressive in a large (and ever-growing) field and there is a sizeable AA electorate (27+%) in the state.

Do the 8 years working beside President Obama have anything to do with that? Well, duh. I'd certainly guess that has a good deal to do with Biden's favorable ratings. Is that somehow an unfair advantage? No. Because Biden worked his heart out during the Obama years and the men developed a strong friendship and mutual admiration.

That's important to a lot of people: who you are now, not who you were (or who people say you were) back in the day. And that's regardless of what race you happen to be.

As for Trump using the racial edge against Biden? LOL. The biggest bigot on two feet? No, he's more likely to weave together half-truths and lies to smear Biden and/or any other Democratic candidate. Because that's who the Trumpster and the Republican Party are, have been for decades.

And then there's the electability question, a question many people do not like. Whether we like it or not, the big factor at the moment is: who can rid us of this Mad King?

The answer right now? Joe Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #23)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:54 PM

29. And, we know better than that,

 

Peggysue. POC know exactly who Joe Biden is.

Excellent post.. Thank You!

Besides it would kill the trump monster to be beaten by President Obama's Vice President!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #29)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:01 PM

32. Can you imagine, Cha?

 

Trump has done everything in his power to dismantle all President Obama's accomplishments. A win for Joe Biden would be a boot straight up the Trumpster's ass.

So well deserved, too!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #23)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:55 PM

30. Perfectly stated...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #23)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:08 PM

36. Very well said.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #23)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:09 PM

37. Thank you

 

What an insulting piece.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #23)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:34 PM

39. You're welcome, all

 

Yeah, this is one I felt compelled to respond to because it fails on so many fronts. Not the least of which is being downright offensive.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:56 PM

31. I'm not making a decision based on negative info used against candidates.

 

I'll decide based on debates and townhall events. Negative campaigning only makes me more negative to the partisans campaigning negatively.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:01 PM

33. we will see. as I've said before ( based on absolutely nothing) he won't be our candidate. i hope

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:42 PM

41. Biden had a problem with the METHOD of integrating schools, not integration in general....

 

....he was against forced busing and it turned out that he was CORRECT. Forced busing was an absolute failure and has since been abandoned.

Characterizing his stand on forced busing as him being against school integration is, to be nice, disingenuous. It's a gross mischaracterization of his position on school integration and highly disappointing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #41)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:00 PM

44. Biden helped bar HEW from withholding funds from school districts that refused to integrate

 

You seemed to have missed this key paragraph from the OP:

"Specifically, Biden voted to bar the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare from requiring schools to provide information on the racial makeup of their student bodies — thereby making it nigh-impossible for Uncle Sam to withhold federal funds from school districts that refused to integrate."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Reply #44)


Response to uawchild (Reply #44)

Tue May 7, 2019, 01:32 AM

73. Can you talk about Cory Booker sometime? Because that would be helpful to him

 

Viciously shitting on other primary candidates doesn’t help Booker at all.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #41)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:06 PM

46. "Forced busing" is a loaded term

 

Busing for desegregation came about largely as a result of recalcitrant school districts and white communities that refused to find other ways to desegregate their schools, such as redrawing school district lines to help overcome decades of intentional residential segregation. Because of that refusal, judges began ordering schools to reassign children on a very limited basis to effectuate desegregation. White parents went berserk.

Interestingly, many of the children who were being bused for desegregation had previously been bused because their "neighborhood" schools were actually farther away. But the "neighborhood" schools" had been attached to neighborhoods that had been intentionally segregated.

As a remedial tool, busing was a red herring and that as a desegregation tool, it was indivisible from remedial techniques needed to correct other forms of discrimination ... to compromise on the busing issue in school desegregation cases was to create a vulnerability for the remedies needed in the related areas of employment, housing, voting rights, and the entire array of affirmative action programs ... The problem was really race—not a bus—since white pupils by the millions had been and were still being transported to school by bus all over the country.

The Bakke case and other affirmative action cases demonstrated that where the remedy was racial, resistance was certain to follow. The real heroes of the 1970s were those litigants, students, parents, and judges who did not and still do not compromise on the issue of race-based remedy.

A contention of mine is the simple fact that a right without a remedy is no right at all. To pretend otherwise is to engage in wheel spinning. As we explore the actions of the 1970s aimed at overcoming racial segregation in urban schools, particularly in the North, it is helpful to understand the strategies that evolved. First, it must be noted that in taking on urban or metropolitan school systems, where plaintiffs were required to prove intentional racial discrimination by public officials, an enormous allocation of resources was necessary for research that often required specialized skills beyond that usually relied upon in an ordinary civil rights case. The metropolitan or interdistrict approach to school desegregation therefore posed an even more complex set of problems for litigators in the 1970s.

from "Answering the Call," by Nathaniel R. Jones, p. 135 (The New Press 2016)
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:08 PM

47. The media underestimates Biden's strengths

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:15 PM

48. For those who believe that bussing is the way to go, urge your candidate to bring back busing, and

 

let's see how that resonates

The OP seems to assume that the majority of African Americans Support that position, and not so subtly implies that those who do not subscribe to that may have racial issues, specifically inferring that in Biden.

It is interesting how selective the OP is in picking and choosing where Biden is on the issues.

In case the OP is interested, here is where Biden is on the issues, and this was way before President Obama selected him as VP:

https://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

Is Joe Biden's record perfect? No, but I will tell you this, Biden IS NOT A RACIST. and any implication that he is, is bullshit







If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to still_one (Reply #48)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:42 PM

60. I appreciate your post, still_one..

 

Thank You!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #60)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:57 PM

62. Thanks Cha. There seems to be some very ugly insinuations being thrown about, and the mortive

 

isn't about vetting, and busing isn't the biggest issue facing the country right now



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Response to still_one (Reply #62)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:25 PM

67. It's like saying that people who are against farm subsidies are in favor of mass starvation.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #67)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:38 PM

69. I'm very unhappy about his position on busing

 

My father was very involved in the issue at the time - he even debated Biden over it. We both think he was flat wrong and caused some harm to important desegregation efforts.

But neither one of us see his position and actions on busing in the early 1970s as a disqualifier and both of us are wide open to supporting him in the primaries.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to still_one (Reply #48)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:24 PM

66. Precisely. I'd be willing to bet they would all run the other way.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:22 PM

50. This again?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:15 PM

57. 1972?

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:47 PM

63. This really makes me want to vote for Booker. You've sold me!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #63)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:51 PM

68. IKR

 

Hm.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #63)

Wed May 8, 2019, 01:25 AM

82. i doubt the poster actually supports Booker

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JI7 (Reply #82)

Wed May 8, 2019, 03:18 PM

86. Yes, I'm beginning to figure that out.

 

The prolific OPs have been informative.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 08:46 PM

80. Washington Post-Opinion: Voters aren't playing along with the media narrative

 




The latest Hill-HarrisX poll shows former vice president Joe Biden opening up a 32-point lead over Sanders, whose claim to the party’s heart is evaporating before our eyes. The latest Morning Consult poll shows Biden expanding his share to 40 percent (up 4 points from the previous week) and Sanders tumbling to 19 percent (down from 27 percent in February). In other words, available evidence suggests that at present the predicted story lines aren’t emerging.....

The most reliable voters — African American women — have little affection for Sanders, nor have they automatically gravitated to African American candidates to the left of Biden. They know Biden, they like him and so far they are content to reward him with their support after his eight years of service in the Obama administration.

The lack of appeal among African American candidates is now a significant problem for Sanders and for other progressives such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg. (The latest Quinnipiac poll found, “Biden had the support of 42 percent of nonwhite respondents, more than 30 points ahead of his nearest rival, Warren. Sanders, who struggled with nonwhite voters during his 2016 campaign, had only 7 percent support.”)

In short, in going far to the left, Sanders and other candidates misfired not only with older, more moderate whites but also with the critical African American electorate. The media likewise has overestimated the influence of the far left and failed to appreciate the centrist bent of both white and African American voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to uawchild (Original post)

Wed May 8, 2019, 03:35 PM

87. Prediction From A Sanders Supporter

 

Although I support Sanders, I foresee that, when voters measure Biden's past inconsistency on race during his time in the Senate against tRump's racism and xenophobia in the present, they will find it easy to see the clear contrast.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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