Bernie Says Immigration Threatens the Social Safety Net. Research Shows Otherwise

[George II]

Bernie Says Immigration Threatens the Social Safety Net. Research Shows Otherwise

The Vermont senator shares the same zero-sum mindset on immigration as his Republican counterparts, including Donald Trump.

JACK HERRERAAPR 11, 2019

Since the beginning of April, President Donald Trump has centered on a new message as he attempts to raise alarm about immigration on the country's southern border: "Our country is FULL!" he tweeted on Sunday, repeating claims he made to Border Patrol agents in in Calexico, California, that Friday.

Though Trump's new messaging is likely more of an emotional appeal than a demographic argument, reporters quickly fact-checked the president's claim: the New York Times ran a data-heavy article explaining how, in many parts of the country, shrinking towns and industries actually need more people. (Trump's claim "runs counter to the consensus among demographers and economists. ... They see ample evidence of a country that is not remotely 'full,'" the Times reported.)

The question of whether the country is indeed full aside, Trump's underlying assumption that the country could become "full" is a claim some of his most vociferous opponents on the left seem to also believe. On the same day Trump tweeted, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders explained in an Iowa town hall why he's against open borders: Too many poor people would come to the United States, Sanders explained, and the country could not afford to pay for policies like universal health care or free college.

"If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world," Sanders said. "And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it."

(more....)


https://psmag.com/news/bernie-says-immigration-threatens-the-social-safety-net-research-shows-otherwise

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Keep digging, Bernie.

[yardwork]

2. Isolationism leads to war.

I strongly disagree with Bernie Sanders' opinions about immigration and trade. Open borders and trade prevent wars.

[LongtimeAZDem]

103. Not to mention being core components of a free society

[hlthe2b]

3. Honestly, it doesn't feel as though Bernie has reexamined his positions since well before 2016...

I don't care how old or experienced or conversely the opposite, you are, you need to reevaluate positions and adapt them to changing data, findings, and yes, current decade.

[NurseJackie]

34. You're correct.

He hasn't.

[Cha]

110. No it doesn't.

[Autumn]

4. Fascinating. Democrats are now for open borders?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Nobody is for open borders. But claiming that we can't afford to admit immigrants

is too close to Trump's position for comfort. We need immigrants and we need a humane way to regulate and manage the immigration process.

[Autumn]

18. He was discussing open borders. Like Obama he understands that we need to have border security,

all nations do. Open borders would lead to a massive wave of immigration. What do you think would happen if instead of 150-200 million immigrants over a span of several decades, it happened in a year or so?

"If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world," Sanders said. "And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. But nobody is advocating for open borders, so it's a straw man argument.

Yes, we need to control immigration so as to keep out criminals and terrorists, but Bernie is arguing against open borders which is something nobody wants anyhow. In fact, immigration benefits the economy. Immigrants aren't a drain on the welfare system; they get jobs and start businesses and pay taxes.

[Autumn]

24. Did you even read the OP? Bernie was at Iowa town hall and asked why he is FOR open borders.

He answered the question. So yes, people are talking about open borders.
Something is very hinky with the OP because at the town hall Bernie never gave the reason he was against open borders as being that the country could not afford to pay for policies like universal health care or free college, the person asking the question asked how the United States can afford to fund social services such as health care, with an open borders policy. Bernie responded with the following. I know what he said. I watched it.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/08/bernie-sanders-open-borders-1261392

Sen. Bernie Sanders pushed back Sunday against claims that he supports an open border policy, adding that poverty across the globe would cause an influx of migrants to the border if that system were in place.

During a town hall in Oskaloosa, Iowa, Sanders was asked by an attendee about how the United States can afford to fund social services such as health care, with an open borders policy.

The attendee also claimed the Vermont senator is "an advocate for open borders."

Bernie replied to the question with.

“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong. That’s not my view,” Sanders said.

"What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” he continued. "If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it. So that is not my position.”

He's not the only Democrat who is against open borders. "What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” is right in line with every other Democrat.

[rgbecker]

48. Thanks Autumn, for trying to bring some sense to the DU.

The attacks on Bernie are relentless. They are by the same people every day, every hour. They are not interested in discussion. They are here simply to bash Bernie. They put up crap like this article that tries to say Bernie said things he never said. Then they talk nonsense about how no one is talking about Open Borders and at the same time how no one should be talking about Open Borders. Which is it? The logic is missing because it is not about discussion, it is simply Bernie Bashing. This Thread has a good list of 25 or so people you don't even need to bother with. Its bad for your blood pressure.

[Autumn]

53. It's a waste of time and I'm done with it.

[ehrnst]

65. Bernie's actual words getting fact checked? (nt)

[Autumn]

79. Please notify me when some actual checking of facts about Bernie is done. Minus the bias spin

of course. TIA.

[ehrnst]

80. It's in the OP- there's a link to the full article. No bias spin. Try reading it.

And I'll say what I say to my Trumper uncle about what he calls "that damn lame stream media that's biased against Trump!!"

Just because it's not biased in your direction doesn't mean that it's biased in the opposite direction.

I suspect I will get the same response, and it will not surprise me in the least.

Any politician who blasts fact checking by neutral topic experts as an "attack" has a similar relationship with the free press and neutral topic experts as Trump. Any supporter of a politician who reacts to fact checking by the free press or neutral topic experts as my uncle has a similar relationship to the free press and neutral topic experts that Trump supporters do.

[ehrnst]

90. You can't point to any bias - other than it's not supporting your bias. (nt)

[Eliot Rosewater]

91. Did someone here ask about FACT CHECKING or VETTING of a candidate, boy what I would

give to be able to ACTUALLY DO THAT.

[ehrnst]

92. SHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Thoughtcrime.

[Eliot Rosewater]

98. And yet most of what we hear and read about Warren or Harris or Biden or Booker or

Buttigeg etal is either unsubstantiated BULLSHIT or marginal or old stuff.

amazing

[George II]

63. It has direct, unedited quotes.

[Autumn]

66. Taken out of context and a lot left out.

[ehrnst]

68. What context did the author of the OP leave out concerning Bernie's statement on the

impact of immigrants on the social safety net?

[rgbecker]

73. Nothing about threatening the social safety net.

"What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” he continued. "If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it. So that is not my position.”

[ehrnst]

76. Juan Pedroza, an immigration expert disagrees.

Pedroza says that Sanders, like other democratic socialists, sells his supporters on increased public spending by arguing that it is an investment in human capital and the economy, not an expense. If one accepts the belief that an increased social safety net can fund itself by empowering and relieving the country's working people (as Sanders believes), Pedroza argues that there's no reason to believe immigrants factor differently into the equation than native-born citizens.

Pedroza points to a wealth of research that reveals that increased immigration is more frequently a boon on countries' economies than a leach. Immigrants do not just arrive in a country and begin to use resources. They also start businesses, send their children to school, and spend money in their communities. In an overview of existing research on the economic impact of immigration to the U.S. published in 2017, researchers with the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found that immigrants contribute significantly more in tax revenue than they take in government benefits. And they do so to a shocking degree: The average long-term fiscal impact of each new immigrant to U.S. was $259,000 in net flow to the government, the paper found.

https://sociology.ucsc.edu/about/directory-faculty.php?uid=jupedroz

I think that he certainly makes his point more effectively than you do yours.

[MichMan]

88. Does that mean that the Mexican and Central American economies are weakened by emmigration?

[rgbecker]

89. What was my point exactly?

Bernie has often stated that "Open Boarders" (I know, we aren't supposed to use the term) would drive wages down as those on bottom would find themselves, in our wonderful Capitalist society, competing for a position working for the man. Sure Pedroza would point out the great impact on GDP and "Net flow to government" but that money isn't coming from those who lose their jobs or face a cut in wages. Rather it comes from all the money skimmed by the the Capitalists, "job creaters" and "entrepreneurs" who get to profit off the low wages.

I finally found the paper Pedroza points to. Here is the section that Bernie would point to concerning who gains and who loses as immigrants come to the country:

"Who Gets the Immigration Surplus?

Consider the factors that affect the decrease in the wage bill paid to natives, represented by the area of rectangle B in Figure 4-1. A decline in wages of 0.35 percent in this simple model economy, assuming a GDP of $17.5 trillion, implies that as much as $39.6 billion that was once paid as wages is now paid as returns to capital (for the 1% immigration-induced workforce increase scenario). Of course this is immaterial if our initial (unrealistic) assumption holds that all the natives are identical and own equal shares of the nation’s capital stock. Indeed, even if people have radically different levels of income, as long as everyone shares the same proportion of income derived from wage earnings and capital income, the shift between the two generated by immigration has no impact on the distribution of income. But what if the proportions are not equal? If, to take an extreme example, the population is divided between those who derive all their income from work and others who derive all their income from capital, the shift in resources described in this example is potentially substantial. Even for the case of a 1 percent increase in the number of workers, the shift from wages to income from capital outweighs the immigration surplus by a factor of nearly 200.

In practice, most people derive at least some of their lifetime income from capital, if not directly through capital gains, dividends, rents, or interest payments, then indirectly through the ownership of their own residence and through pension savings. Still, the composition of income varies significantly across the income distribution, with those at the very top receiving larger shares of their income from capital than those at the bottom.9 This means that not only does a disproportionate share of the immigration surplus accrue to people who enjoy higher incomes but the shift in overall income composition in response to immigration can at least initially exacerbate income inequality and could leave some people absolutely worse off.

In summary, the immigration surplus stems from the increase in the return to capital that results from the increased supply of labor and the subsequent fall in wages. Natives who own more capital will receive more income from the immigration surplus than natives who own less capital, who can consequently be adversely affected."

You can read the entire paper here....this link will take you the link concerning economic impact of immigration.

https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/8#172

[George II]

72. In what way? Remember, the link to the entire article was included in the OP.

[NurseJackie]

77. Nobody is attacking BS.

The attacks on Bernie are relentless.

Nobody is attacking BS.

They are here simply to bash Bernie.

Nobody is bashing BS.

The logic is missing because it is not about discussion, it is simply Bernie Bashing.

You know perfectly well that it's nothing of the sort.

This Thread has a good list of 25 or so people you don't even need to bother with.

Oh, please.

[ehrnst]

23. "We don't have room for immigrants, they will cost too much" is a RW talking point.

And who ever talks about "open borders" as an option other than when Republicans falsely accuse Democrats of supporting it?

Democrats don't fall into the trap of repeating their talking points - we don't call abortion "Killing an unborn child," we don't call Social Security a "hammock" and we don't call people on public assistance "people who have made bad decisions."

[Autumn]

28. Here you go. Read it or don't.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287108398#post24

[ehrnst]

30. Does not address my point about him being wrong about immigrants and the social safety net.

And his comment on the Daily Show about having "chinese, vietnamese, Latin American, and Mexican" immigrants coiming would not be "plausible" then saying "on the other hand, we need people from all walks of life" as though people from those countries would only come from one walk of life, which he said wouldn't be "plausible..." was pretty telling.

You either listen to what he says or you skip over the parts that you don't want to acknowledge, I guess.

[Autumn]

32. Read it or don't. I didn't respond to any post of yours making a point

about him being wrong about immigrants and the social safety net, so I have no need to address your...point.

[ehrnst]

37. Listen to what he actually said, and read the OP, or don't. (nt)

[ehrnst]

16. Where have I heard that straw man attacked before...OH, right.

Julian Castro: Open borders is ‘Republican talking point’




Trump calls Dems 'party of open borders, drugs and crime' after veto sustained

[Autumn]

22. Where have I heard Bernie is wrong because he's against open borders...OH, right.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287108398

Yes. Open borders is a Republican talking point. And Bernie is against open borders. Thanks for proving my point.

The question of whether the country is indeed full aside, Trump's underlying assumption that the country could become "full" is a claim some of his most vociferous opponents on the left seem to also believe. On the same day Trump tweeted, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders explained in an Iowa town hall why he's against open borders:

Too many poor people would come to the United States, Sanders explained, and the country could not afford to pay for policies like universal health care or free college.

"If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world," Sanders said. "And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it."

[ehrnst]

26. You don't repeat RW talking points...

Just like you don't say we want to keep "Partial Birth Abortions" legal, you don't say that you want to "keep bad hombres from coming into the country," and you don't say that "open borders" is anything but a RW talking point that is designed to misrepresent Democratic policy.

And saying that most immigrants are poor, and that all these impoverished immigrants would swarm here and weaken the social safety net if given the chance is NOT SUPPORTED BY DATA, no matter if it's the GOP or Bernie repeating it. Did you bother to read the article in the OP? Because it appears that you missed that part of the debunked assumption that Sanders is reciting.

This is how you address any mention of "open borders:"

2020 candidate Julián Castro joins MTP Daily to discuss his plan for the ongoing crisis at the southern border and notes that the rhetoric of Democrats being for “open borders” is a talking point from the right.

You say, "No one is talking about open borders, that's a mischaracterization of Democratic policy. We have the resources to accept those who are refugees, and to give everyone who requests asylum a hearing. We need to put more resources into the causes of people fleeing, which is the opposite of what Trump is doing."

This isn't the first time he's made some tone deaf

And Bernie sure didn't help himself on the Daily Show with this statement:

“Nobody, I mean not many people believe in open borders. If you simply opened the borders, you’d have people from Vietnam and China and Mexico and Latin America coming in. And no one thinks that is a plausible approach."

Who is he talking about that "believes in open borders?" I can guess, though.

Talk about tone deaf, listing countries with majority non-white populations as being the burdensome immigrants.

But as the saying goes, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

[brooklynite]

33. Sort of like, when Republicans say a policy is socialism, don't come out and say you're a socialist

[ehrnst]

38. You don't let them drive the conversation. You don't give in to their narrative.

And you don't use their terms except to talk about how wrong they are to use that term.

Unless, of course, one is using it to direct ire at one's competitors, I guess.

[rgbecker]

55. You seem to have a lot of rules about what to talk about.

I'm happy Bernie is talking about the issues. He isn't afraid to take on the hard questions. He isn't going to dance around trying keep up with your "you don't don't talk about..." rules. Bernie is the first in a long time that is willing to talk about issues. Straight forward and on target.

If you don't like is stand on issues, say so. But don't attribute to him statements he never made just to Bash Bernie.

So are you for Open Borders? Are you for Women's right to choose abortion?

Lots of talk from the Bernie Bashers about how Bernie isn't a Democrat, how he is grumpy, how he won't release his tax returns, how he is actually a millionaire, how he has too many houses, how he wants to help people afford the rent in neighborhoods that are being gentrified....but its all negative lies because you don't want to say where you are on the issues.

All negative about Bernie, no matter what issue he talks about. Yet nothing from the critics about where they or their candidate stand on the issues.

[ehrnst]

56. Just stating Democratic strategy that's worked. Basic strategy. (nt)

[ehrnst]

60. So putting the spotlight on Bernie's statements, like any other POTUS candidate is "bashing."

Says so much, doesn't it?

If you don't like is stand on issues, say so. But don't attribute to him statements he never made just to Bash Bernie.

Read the OP. Those are Bernies actual words being fact checked. But I guess that's 'bashing?'

Lots of talk from the Bernie Bashers about how Bernie isn't a Democrat, how he is grumpy, how he won't release his tax returns, how he is actually a millionaire, how he has too many houses, how he wants to help people afford the rent in neighborhoods that are being gentrified....but its all negative lies because you don't want to say where you are on the issues.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else in this thread? Otherwise, it's just a rant against a strawman. Maybe you've been saving it up, but it doesn't apply here...

All negative about Bernie, no matter what issue he talks about. Yet nothing from the critics about where they or their candidate stand on the issues.

Who are you talking about? There is plenty of criticism of other candidates on DU. But keep on attacking that straw man. It's easier than actually addressing what's been said.

[rgbecker]

69. Straw man.

Actual words. Do I have to type them out...Why bother. Nothing about threatened safety net....I could be wrong...get me the quote.

Still nothing from you on the issues? Open Border or not?

Give me one criticism of another candidate. I'd love to hear it straight from you.

[ehrnst]

74. Why don't you take it up with the author of the study?

He's an immigration writer, and I have found nothing that indicates he's a corporate shill, "establishment Democrat," or supporter of any other candidate. Same for Juan Pedroza who did the analysis.

Still nothing from you on the issues? Open Border or not?

Correct. That's not the issue of this discussion. As much as you feel entitled to demand that someone obey your efforts at a red herring, no one's obligated to comply.

Give me one criticism of another candidate. I'd love to hear it straight from you.

That's not the issue of this discussion. As much as you feel entitled to demand that someone obey your efforts at a red herring, no one's obligated to comply.

I would advise against an "argument from silence'" fallacy.

[Autumn]

43. Here. Cant help you beyond that.

Who is he talking about that "believes in open borders?" I can guess, though.

He was asked a question. He answered.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287108398#post24

[ehrnst]

44. Here. Can't help you beyond that.

Bernie Says Immigration Threatens the Social Safety Net. Research Shows Otherwise

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287108398

Saying "not many" are for open borders is like saying "not many" are for allowing doctors to kill infants the minute they are born....

It's perpetuating a myth by saying that he's "opposed to it."

Perhaps it's meant to infer that some of his rivals are "for open borders" like the GOP claims?

[George II]

40. What's the point of this?

[awesomerwb1]

39. Wow

the exact same fabricated argument you get from russiapublicans and right wing nut media outlets. "Open borders".

Really??

[uponit7771]

94. Nah, we're not for bullshit ass'd reasoning against immigration.

[Autumn]

95. I haven't seen that. Just Bernie answering a question that he's for immigration but

not the open borders bullshit that Trump likes to fling.

[uponit7771]

96. Unnnnnn, Sanders said we can't afford open borders ... that's the right wing reason for not

... having open borders vs rule of law and borders.

It's important that accuracy is repeated by democrats

[peggysue2]

5. And who exactly is calling for open borders?

This sounds more like a statement that the Trumpster would make. The Democratic Party is calling for a comprehensive immigration bill/plan, a way forward and protection for Dreamers, a humane immigration policy vs putting children in cages.

Get a grip, Senator Sanders. We're all immigrants in this country.

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. EXACTLY what a TRUMPER would FUCKING SAY

[MineralMan]

6. I don't think any of our Democratic candidates are

calling for open borders. Still, it's not a great issue for Sanders to be opposing, really. I'm not sure why he's bringing it up. And his focus on poverty is a mistake, as well. Most asylum-seekers are poor. It's not a good look for Bernie Sanders.

[Autumn]

51. Could it be he brought it up because he was asked a question about it at a town hall?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/08/bernie-sanders-open-borders-1261392

Sen. Bernie Sanders pushed back Sunday against claims that he supports an open border policy, adding that poverty across the globe would cause an influx of migrants to the border if that system were in place.

During a town hall in Oskaloosa, Iowa, Sanders was asked by an attendee about how the United States can afford to fund social services such as health care, with an open borders policy.


The attendee also claimed the Vermont senator is "an advocate for open borders."

“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong. That’s not my view,” Sanders said.

"What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” he continued. "If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it. So that is not my position.”[/diSounds like he's in line with Democrats on that.

[MineralMan]

52. It doesn't matter, really. He said it.

It wasn't a good thing to say, overall, I think. He spoke without considering what he was about to say, apparently.

[Autumn]

57. Yeah he should have told the guy he didn't "have the time to completely lay out all the details."

Avoiding the deatils would have been much easier.

[MineralMan]

58. When you speak to a reporter, you have to expect your words to

be repeated for others to see. Being a candidate is hard. You have to watch what you say, it seems.

I can guess what he meant, but that's not much help, really.

[Autumn]

64. He didn't speak to a reporter, as I told you, he answered a question by an attendee. nt

[MineralMan]

67. Apparently, it was recorded, then.

Everything pretty much is, isn't it?

Did he say that? Apparently, he did. Was it made public? Why, yes, it was. Like I said, it's hard being a candidate. You have to watch what you say.

[ehrnst]

70. Candidates get fact checked. Apparently when it's Bernie's turn, then it's 'bashing,'

according to many here.

[MineralMan]

71. I suppose the rule every candidate has to follow is: "Be careful. You're on camera."

There's always someone recording every public event on their cell phones. There's never a time when your words might not be disseminated by someone. So, you have to watch what you say at all times, if only to avoid embarrassment for some clumsy thing you said.

That's true for every last candidate out on the stump.

[Me.]

7. So What Are We Seeing Here?

The real BS finally making an appearance?

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. yes and yet kit gloves treatment required on some message boards

[KitSileya]

20. OT and no shaming

But is that how you spell that expression? 'Kit' gloves? I'm a language nerd and find these things fascinating. Since we don't use kid gloves, as in baby goat skin gloves, much or at all anymore, it doesn't have as much anchorage in print these days. However, since both d and g are voiced, while t is not, it's more work to say kit gloves than kid gloves, so if it's your genuine spelling and not just a spelling error, it's really interesting.

[Eliot Rosewater]

47. It was a misprint...my bad. It is kid

[KitSileya]

49. Ah. So no fascinating linguistic anomaly. Too bad ;) NT

[Eliot Rosewater]

50. When I first started doing message boards the word spelled out that I use all the

time in speaking that did NOT look right written out was "used."

I think, not even sure now if that was it. For myself, prior to message boards, I rarely typed anything that wasnt work related and commentary was rare and then along came the internet, seeing words that I spoke routinely was amusing at first.

There was a time when I wrote professionally but it was not creative writing but technical. God I'm old.

[NYMinute]

8. Bernie's obsession with wooing Trump voters

is delusional and in the process he is alienating Democrats.

Immigration is America's greatest human resource. The unending supply of talented and hard-working people gives us an edge like no other country has.

Australia is just waking up to this and has taken a lot of pro-immigration steps recently.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Trump voters are hopeless. They worship Trump like he's their God, and

no amount of pandering from Bernie or anybody else is going to win over the MAGA crowd.

[sheshe2]

9. From your link.

Pedroza points to a wealth of research that reveals that increased immigration is more frequently a boon on countries' economies than a leach. Immigrants do not just arrive in a country and begin to use resources. They also start businesses, send their children to school, and spend money in their communities. In an overview of existing research on the economic impact of immigration to the U.S. published in 2017, researchers with the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found that immigrants contribute significantly more in tax revenue than they take in government benefits. And they do so to a shocking degree: The average long-term fiscal impact of each new immigrant to U.S. was $259,000 in net flow to the government, the paper found.

Thanks for the article, good info here.

[groundloop]

15. Oh, but we can't let a few pesky FACTS get in the way of our OPINIONS, can we?

[zentrum]

14. Good God--What threatens

...the social safety net is a non-progressive tax system and a refusal to tax the rich at the rate they should be taxed. The Warren plan sounds like a good start.

Not to mention taxing mega-corporations who now loophole their way out of paying any taxes at all. Looking at you Bezos and Gates.

[ehrnst]

17. Well, that's quite a difference between Bernie and the Democratic Party. (nt)

[billpolonsky]

21. America doesn't have an Open Border now...

What's all the hub bub Bub?

If you move from America to Canada you go through border control.
If you move from America to Mexico you go through border control.
If you travel through the European Union you find open borders but if you want to visit the UK you go through border control.
If you head back to the US from ANY country you certainly go through border control.

This whole thread is a bit of a red herring really...

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_border|

[link:https://berniesanders.com/issues/immigration-reform/|

[Skidmore]

85. This. nt.

[NurseJackie]

25. So why would he say such a thing if the data and evidence says otherwise?

"If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world," Sanders said. "And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it."

Who is suggesting that we have "open borders"? Has anyone actually said, suggested, hinted, or implied such a thing. (I mean, OTHER than the smears and attacks that the GOP and Trump are making against Democrats!)

So... OTHER than the lies being spewed by GOP and Trump, are any Democrats advocating that?

So, what good purpose does it serve for BS to be validating GOP lies by repeating them, and therefore implying that there must be some truth to it.

All I'm saying is that when someone repeats the GOP lies, it only divides and weakens the party. A divided Democratic party only benefits Trump, the GOP... and Russia. Why would anyone do or say anything that ultimately benefits Russia?

It's an honest question. It's a legitimate question. It's something that Americans deserve to know the answer to.

[lunamagica]

29. I'm so happy relieved to see him imploding at a much faster rate than I though

His anti-immigrant and anti-gun control are anti-Democratic party, and always a turn-off for me.

Buh buh, Bernie....

[Thekaspervote]

35. +1000

[NurseJackie]

62. Preach it!

[fleabiscuit]

31. Septuagenarian and still hasn't learned the rule of holes. nt

[sdfernando]

36. If I was in attendance at that rally

I would have walked out and never looked back.

[oldsoftie]

41. UNCONTROLLED immigration, he's right. Look at Europe & see their programs getting cut due to it.

But we NEED immigration. Immigration is why our recessions rarely last very long & we have the growth we have. Our birth rates (and the birth rates of many other countries) are low. Without the growth immigration provides, we lose.
But allowing immigration without controls would certainly overwhelm many of our social systems. As i said, just look at whats going on in several EU countries where there were no controls. It really is that simple

[ehrnst]

45. No one is talking about uncontrolled immigration but the GOP misrepresenting Democrats' positions.

And Bernie.

So Bernie is attacking a strawman when he says "some people" are.

[oldsoftie]

59. As i read your headline i thought "And Bernie". Then i opened your comment!

[WeekiWater]

46. He voted against a pathway to citizenship...

and said it was because of the visa language in the bill. Literally voted against bringing over ten million people into the sunlight.

It's like his vote on Russian sanctions. His reason was that he didn't want to harm the Iran Nuclear Deal. How did that work out? The visa issue worked out the same way. Difference is, that time there were the lives of over ten million people living in the shadows on the line.

Not one word of this is inaccurate. Not one word of this is hyperbole.

[George II]

81. It's always something...."there's a comma out of place, I can't vote for that!!"

[dalton99a]

54. Only Norwegians need apply

And RICH Chinese.

There are so many similarities to the current White House it’s unreal. Disgustingly unreal

[NurseJackie]

78. Heh! You're not the only one to notice that!

More people are paying closer attention and it seems rather clear to me that they're not liking what they're hearing and seeing. That makes me happy. That gives me hope.

[ehrnst]

82. Well, maybe Swedes and Russians. And Ukrainians. (nt)

[rgbecker]

61. Actually Bernie did not say immigration threatens the social safety net.

Another day of Bernie Bashing?

[ehrnst]

75. You keep saying that, but you don't ever rebut the Juan Pedroza's case.

Did you even read it?

Never mind....

Pedroza says that Sanders, like other democratic socialists, sells his supporters on increased public spending by arguing that it is an investment in human capital and the economy, not an expense. If one accepts the belief that an increased social safety net can fund itself by empowering and relieving the country's working people (as Sanders believes), Pedroza argues that there's no reason to believe immigrants factor differently into the equation than native-born citizens.

[ehrnst]

99. Still haven't read the article?

But if you contact the Pedroza to correct him, please let us know his response, and how thankful he was.

[rgbecker]

101. Followed all the links and can't find his article.

Do YOU have a link to Pedroza's article?

Thanks.

[ehrnst]

102. The link to the article with Pedroza's responses is in the OP

https://psmag.com/news/bernie-says-immigration-threatens-the-social-safety-net-research-shows-otherwise

Now, if you can stay with the article for six (6) paragraphs, then you will see a link to contact Pedroza.


If you can stay with the article for a few more paragraphs you see the responses to Sanders' statements that he contributed to the article.

The author of the article in the OP is Jack Herrera. if you want more information on Pedroza's contributions to the article, which are Pedroza's and not Herrera's.

I hope that helps.

[rgbecker]

104. Is it under paywall or something?

When you read it, was it up on the web? All the links I found sent me to info about Juan but no article.

I sent a emaill to Herrera to see what he says.

Thanks



By the way, I was wondering about the picture of the little girl. My wife thinks it's your daughter or something, but I think it must be some coded message. Checked the Googles but couldn't figure it out.

[ehrnst]

105. I'm seeing the article linked in the OP just fine. No paywall.

The article linked in the OP contains the response that Juan had to Sanders' comments.

If that's not clear, I don't know of any other way to communicate it but copy and paste, and it's more than four paragraphs.

[rgbecker]

106. Could you copy and paste the link?

[ehrnst]

107. Here you go again. Same one as in my previous response:

https://psmag.com/news/bernie-says-immigration-threatens-the-social-safety-net-research-shows-otherwise

[rgbecker]

108. Sorry for the confusion.

I thought we were talking about Pedroza's article. I've read Herrera's article, no problem. Can't find Pedroza's.

Wanna tell about the little girl picture?

[ehrnst]

109. You seem to be keep looking for a 'separate' article that doesn't exist.

You need to read the article, which reports on Pedroza's response to Sanders' statements.

This has been explained to you several times, but you seem to keep wanting to reply to me in this thread for some reason.

What little girl picture are you referring to? Sorry for the confusion, perhaps you could reply to the post where you saw it? That would make more sense.

[NastyRiffraff]

83. Is he TRYING to lose?

I realize he has to pander to white Trump voters; he's made that very clear. But really, he's saying exactly the same thing as Trump, in the very same words ("Can't do it.&quot .

No matter; he won't win the nomination, but he's making himself look really really bad on the way to losing.

[George II]

84. I don't know, but something is up. This morning he was complaining that his fundraising....

....has dropped significantly since Biden entered the race.

[mcar]

86. ...

[johannsyah]

87. EU countries didn't have uncontrolled immigrations and open borders

it's a populist propaganda

[uponit7771]

93. Damn, smdh ... I need a video of this ... I just can't believe this Trump level sophistry.

[R B Garr]

97. Thanks for posting this! Always a good reminder of who he

is trying to cater to.

[Amimnoch]

100. maybe next, he can support Trumps wall.