Ageist Bigots And The Presidential Election

[highplainsdem]

Last edited Wed May 8, 2019, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2019/03/23/age-discrimination-and-the-presidential-election/#76658d805d31

Americans, as a rule do not approve of people being judged by the color of their skin and the god they worship. So why do we allow prejudgment based on age? Day after day we allow age bigotry to infiltrate the presidential campaigns. Just five days ago the Washington Post ran an op-ed entitled “Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are too old to be President." Are Kamala Harris and Cory Booker too black to run? Are Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, and Kirsten Gillibrand too female to run?

In her 2016 book Disrupt Aging, Jo Ann Jenkins, dynamic president of the AARP, aimed to challenge what she called outdated beliefs, and others called bigotry, calling out negative stories we tell ourselves and each other about growing older. There was hope the aging of the boomer cohort and the fierce demand for equality among younger people would see shifts in attitudes, behaviors, and culture calling out ageist attitudes that limit people of all ages. Instead, the presidential campaign is becoming fertile ground for the worse kind of ageism , the casual, accepted, unthinking kind.

-snip-

[zipplewrath]

1. The constitution is "ageist"

We have ageist laws all over the place. In this case it isn't even law, it's just the preference of the electorate.

[Nuggets]

5. Its the preference of what electorate? Nt

[jberryhill]

8. The electorate addressed in that blog post

...which seems geared more toward name-calling shit-stirring than promoting a candidate.

Calling people names because they do not support a particular candidate is not going to win support.

It will, however, drive wedges.

What is this article intended to do? <- Seriously, I'd like to see you address that question.

[DownriverDem]

13. Age should not play a part

Judge each person for who they are and what they stand for. You don't exclude someone because of their age. We are all going to get older or die young.

[LanternWaste]

18. Names like "too old"?

"Calling people names..."

Names like "too old" while failing to support that with objective evidence?

[Nuggets]

25. Perhaps maybe tale a look from

the view of senior citizens instead of arrogantly deciding its about stirring the pot and name calling.

Maybe if people stopped posting the “we need fresh faces” malarkey and “these old people are out of touch” we wouldn’t have articles like this defending the need for experience. Thus it is not the defenders causing any wedge issues, but those that brought the ageist bigotry to the table in the first place.

[jberryhill]

27. Nuggets

Before you go spouting off about "the view of senior citizens" it might be helpful for you to know something about whom you are addressing. I'm going to bet that I spent more time than you this week on the phone with your health insurer to discuss your spouse's impending Medicare enrollment later this year. I'm also certain I've spent more time with Joe Biden.

The OP is a divisive wedge-driving post which does not promote any candidate, but merely seeks to put down people who might otherwise be persuadable.

It is a categorically stupid approach to promoting a candidate.

[Nuggets]

33. No one is trying to promote a candidate

They are pointing out ageism towards them. If you can’t handle the truth just let it go.

You make a lot of stupid bets considering Im living here to care for my elderly parents, but do go on with your irrelevant bio to get off the subject of ageism.

Not voting for someone based on age or voting for someone because you want a fresh face is immature regardless of actual age. It is by definition ageism it is also bigotry.

But I guess you’ll keep supporting it.
Thus YOU are one driving he wedge issue.

[jberryhill]

38. Obviously you are not trying to promote a candidate

[jberryhill]

2. These types of articles are categorically stupid

First off, ageism is literally written in the Constitutional qualifications to BE president. There is no reason to believe that anyone magically becomes possessed of powers at age 35 which they did not have previously.

Secondly, we are talking about what is ultimately a personal decision to vote, or not to vote, for a candidate. If the idea here is to browbeat people into voting for someone by saying "if you don't, then you are bad", it is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

I married a woman. Does it make me sexist or homophobic that I did not marry a man? To be honest, I never even considered marrying a man. That was simply how I desired to run my life. I've never felt particularly attracted to any man, and so either I never met the right guy, or I just happen not to be gay. Do I give a shit who anyone else loves or marries? No. Of course not. I'm not running someone else's life.

So, seriously, is the idea here that if someone thinks, along with various mandatory retirement schemes, social security and medicare eligibility, actuarial tables and other medical and physiological statistics, that older people might be less desirable as president beyond a certain threshold; then what they need is to be scolded and shamed, and that will change their minds on how they decide to cast their vote according to whatever their personal preferences happen to be?

Good luck with that approach.

[Nuggets]

19. Because experience matters.

As do other things.

What if a 30 yr old woman chooses to marry a 10 yr old boy?
Or a 50 yr old man chooses to marry a 12 yr old girl?
Definitely takes age out if the equation.

Is that okay with you or are there good reasons for the restrictions?


The out of touch mantra could just as easily be applied to young people who are the ones who typically cannot accept that actions out of emotions being pushy with demands and acting like won’t necessarily give the desired results.

[jberryhill]

23. Okay, so age matters, unless someone holds an opinion that it matters when you disagree

In which case they are a bigot.

Got it.

[Nuggets]

29. No

It seems more that some cant handle that disagreement and so have decided to put words in our mouths. Typical desperate move building a strawman to knock dwn . Did it at least make you feel better?



Explain what policies of Biden’s today are out of touch due to age? Does he want to make trade deals for buggy whips? What?

[jberryhill]

35. Whooooooooooooshhhhh

"Explain what policies of Biden’s today are out of touch due to age?"

I don't give a shit how old a candidate is.

It is unfortunate that you are unable to understand my criticism of the article posted as the OP.

Dumping on people because of their preferences is not helpful to promoting a candidate.

There are people who have an issue with age. Why don't you explain how calling them bigots will change their minds?

If you cannot answer that question, then your purpose is clear.

[Nuggets]

44. So you don't have

any and refuse to accept that ppl will stand against ageism.

Why should ppl not vote for someone with experience and why shouldn’t we stand against ageism?

You wont ever change the bigots mind because they are desperately looking for reasons and grasping at straws using ageism.

So post those oh so horrible policies out of touch with the electorate now or it becomes obvious what your purpose is.

[tonedevil]

51. I will not vote...

for Biden in the primary and the main reason I have made this decision is his age. Do you think you are going to hector me into changing my vote?
P.S. I will vote for him in the general election, if he is the Democratic candidate despite my ageist concerns, because I have always voted a straight Democratic ticket since 1974.

[Nuggets]

54. Why does everyone think Im trying to change

their vote?
If you’re an ageist that’s your problem.
If you’re not voting Biden due to age its ageism.

I’m pointing out how shtty that is to do but its your choice to be that way.
If you’re fine being a bigot in any form that’s on you.
The problem truly is the lack of shame for ageism and then trying to shame those who point out the bigotry

[tonedevil]

56. You don't want to change votes...

you just want to shame ageists. OK, have fun with that.

[Hekate]

59. What twaddle

[jberryhill]

64. Think of all the bigotry Joe Biden has had to endure

If someone wants to vote FOR Biden because he’s white, straight, and/or male, our friend here has posted extensively to “call out” those people as well.

[jberryhill]

67. What would help make your point clearer

...would be to post the links to your posts calling out people who are voting for Biden because he’s white, straight, and/or male.

Obviously, Biden voters who believe those things are also bigots, right?

[LanternWaste]

22. the arbitrary limit was an afterthought. At best.

"ageism is literally written in the Constitutional qualifications..."

As opposed to what other practical solution not predicated on any arbitrary limit? Id' presumed you were aware of the discussions between James Wilson and George Mason were the peak of the dialog, that tt the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, there was little public debate about the age requirements and zero discussion about the age requirement for the presidency.

In effect, the arbitrary limit was an afterthought. At best.

(Also, you're conflating age discrimination and ageism. I really thought you'd know the critical and relevant differences. Good luck with that approach, part two...)

[TwilightZone]

49. An age limit of 35 and ageism aren't even remotely the same thing.

The assertion that they're the same thing is laughable.

[Politicub]

74. Your entire post packs a punch. I especially like the first sentence.

ageism is literally written in the Constitutional qualifications to BE president.

This, too:

If the idea here is to browbeat people into voting for someone by saying "if you don't, then you are bad", it is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

[Nuggets]

3. Why do we allow bigotry

on race, on age , on height , on weight?

[jberryhill]

4. I know right?

It's like allowing people to marry the person of their own choosing, which remarkably ends up more often than not being of similar ethnic backgrounds, ages, and opposite sexes.

We shouldn't allow people to make choices like that, and should shame them for doing so.

Anyone not preferring Biden is an "ageist bigot".

Put that on bumperstickers.

See how many votes it gets.

[DownriverDem]

15. Many are ageists

When folks keep yelling they want someone young what would you call it? Biden/Harris would make a formidable ticket. I don't care how old either one of them are.

[Nuggets]

20. Who said that?

I don’t like ageism.
If your reasoning for not voting for Biden would be due to his age then you’re a shallow ageist.

Try “old ppl are out of touch” on your candidates bumper sticker, see how well that works.

[rzemanfl]

31. I'm 71. I would try to read it, think about what "ppl" meant and

you'd best hope this happened while both cars were stopped.

[Nuggets]

39. Good for you

Ppl =people in online lingo and has since at least 1995.

Like lol, brb, fwiw.

[rzemanfl]

42. I know what ppl means. I would question its use on a bumper sticker.

But I am a shallow ageist so who cares what I think?

[Nuggets]

46. So you won't vote for ppl

due to their age? Then yes you are an ageist regardless of age.
Also don’t post that you can’t fig something out when you know it because it exposes intentions or whst you thought was a clever jab.

Bye now
Ill debate with ppl who can handle when ppl disagree with them and won’t project and post anger all over the place.

[SidDithers]

6. That's not from Forbes...

it's from a blogger who posts on the Forbes "sites" hosted service.

Here's the writer:

Teresa Ghilarducci
I am an economics professor focusing on retirement security and jobs.
I joined The New School in 2008 after 25 years as a professor of economics at the University of Notre Dame. My recent book, co-authored with Blackstone's Tony James and titled, Rescuing Retirement, charts a visionary, bipartisan, and simple path to solving the retirement crisis. I also wrote How to Retire with Enough Money, with Workmen Press. I am a trustee of the $53 billion Medical Health Care Trust for GM, Ford, Chrysler UAW retirees and past trustee of the Indiana Public Employees Retirement System, Commissioner on the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Personal Savings Initiative; member of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation advisory board, serving from 1995- 2002.

I'm not saying that what she wrote is wrong - hell, I didn't even read it - just that it's incorrect to attribute it to Forbes. It gives her words more weight than they deserve.

Sid

[highplainsdem]

21. Thanks! I deleted those two words from the OP.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Sorry but being cognizant of age related decline is not bigotry.

Speaking as a man in my seventies I see it happening to me. We get old, our bodies decline, our minds aren't as sharp as they used to be and sooner or later we die.

[Demsrule86]

9. Young people get sick too...and using this as a excuse is still bigotted in my opinion...not you

just in general.

[jberryhill]

11. People who think Joe Biden is older than what they would prefer, are bad people

Maybe we can force such people to hang a sign around their neck, as an example to children of what bad people are.

Not wanting to wear that sign will persuade them to reconsider and vote for Biden.

[enough]

14. I'm 75. I think of myself as very active, strong, and mentally sharp, but I also

know how much has changed. I am not as active, strong and mentally sharp as l used to be. This especially effects my ability to think on my feet and react to complex fast- moving situations when I’m tired. And I get tired sooner than I used to.

Of course I know that everybody ages differently, but from my perspective, I would prefer to have a very mentally agile and physically robust person in the office of President.

That said, of course I will vote for Biden if he’s the nominee.

[DownriverDem]

16. Oh now it's decline

Judge each person for who they are. Not everyone declines at the same time.

[LanternWaste]

24. What specific decline in Biden has been noticed?

Or are you simply projecting your own decline onto all older people?

[rzemanfl]

30. Me too. n/t

[uawchild]

37. Mandatory retirement ages, 64-68 for Generals

The US Military agrees with you for all Flag Officers:


(a)General Rule.—
Unless retired or separated earlier, each regularcommissioned officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps serving in a general or flag officer grade shall be retired on the first day of the month following the month in which the officer becomes 64 years of age.
(b)Exception for Serving in O–9 and O–10 Positions.—In the case of an officer serving in a position that carries a grade above major general or rear admiral, the retirement under subsection (a) of that officer may be deferred—
(1) by the President, but such a deferment may not extend beyond the first day of the month following the month in which the officer becomes 68 years of age; or
(2) by the Secretary of Defense, but such a deferment may not extend beyond the first day of the month following the month in which the officer becomes 66 years of age.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1253

[earthside]

79. Quite right.

Aging is something that happens to all of us.

It affects different people in different ways.
But to believe that a 76 year old is the same as a 35 year old is just a denial of reality.

It is true whether one likes it or not -- the longevity and health issues of a woman or man in their late 70s who is asking for a high pressure job is perfectly rational.

[Hortensis]

10. I agree. It's so easy to dismiss someone as "obviously" too young

to have developed the range and depth of experience and wisdom a leader in an enormously complex world needs, but some make far better use of their years than others and should be evaluated just as seriously as older candidates.

[DownriverDem]

17. It's about who can win

I don't care how old they are.

[Hortensis]

36. 'Fraid so. We'll be seeing what the nation thinks

about "generational" differences over the next year and a half.

[crazytown]

12. Science is not bigotry

The rise and fall of cognitive skills
http://news.mit.edu/2015/brain-peaks-at-different-ages-0306

[defacto7]

40. Although I'd like to see things differently, you can't argue with this.

It's about probabilities, not prejudice.

[Hortensis]

41. Nor does science indicate reality for individuals.

You know that. At the level of "science" demonstrated in that graph, everyone averages out to some average or median. But we know that's not true for any of our candidates. Some may be unworthy in many ways, including not all that smart, but like the kids in Lake Woebegone, they're all above "average."

I was recently chatting with a bright, vigorous 92-year-old woman who looks a couple decades younger, owns and runs a small business, has wisdom gained from an extremely varied and challenging life and a strong, positive, liberal personality, and is sharp as a tack. I'd choose her for a position requiring industry and judgment over half the people on this forum without a second's hesitation. Probably 3/4. She's very impressive.

[uawchild]

47. Notice that VERBAL Ability declines much less

And it actually stays stable thru the 80's age range.

So, Ronald Regan. who was suffering dementia not just decline, was able to go out and give convincing speeches and be charming to people one on one.

Most of his other fluid cognitive abilities, as shown in your chart, hit rock bottom.

So as long as a candidate sticks to folksy stump speeches, they can hide their age related cognitive decline.

But staffers having to rush out and walk back Biden's recent statements on China "not being competition" could be taken as indications of a decline in Joe's fluid cognitive skills.

"Fluid reasoning abilities encompass the set of basic cognitive processing abilities necessary to assimilate and integrate critical information about a problem or decision."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/fluid-and-crystallized-intelligence

[Skya Rhen]

71. Do you mean like how Booker had to walk back his statement in support of Medicare for All?

He realized, after it was pointed out to him, that BS's plan that he signed on to meant elimination of private insurance. He said he did not support elimination of private insurance although it is clearly in the plan. Several reporters challenged him on this and he had no coherent response. I felt embarrassed for him...

Case in point...

[Kurt V.]

53. I'm peaking! yay. or peaked? boo

[highplainsdem]

65. Oh, you've dragged out that chart you posted once before and deleted. So the reply

I emailed you when you deleted your post is relevant again. Quoting my letter to you:

If you look at that graph, which is interesting, you'll see there's really very little drop in inductive reasoning, verbal ability, and verbal memory -- that they're not that much lower in the 80s than they are in the 20s, after peaking around age 55.

Those are the three factors I'd say are most important for leaders.

Perceptual speed and numeric ability drop the most; those are probably the least important factors.

And of course this graph, these general tendencies, wouldn't apply to all individuals to the same extent.

But even assuming it applies to Biden, then you'd have to consider whether a very minor decline in inductive reasoning, if there is one, since he was about 55, would still be offset by decades more experience and knowledge.

I'm not advocating that anyone "flat out ignore" age.

But I don't for one second believe that Biden would be running for president if he didn't have good reason to believe he's healthy enough not only to run but to lead this country for 8 years after being elected.

I don't believe he'd have his family's enthusiastic backing if there were any concerning health problems.

As for what I said about perceptual speed and numeric ability being the least important factors -- that's because we're electing a president, not a pro gamer or mathematician.

IF perceptual speed were most important, we'd probably want to elect a 20 year old or even a teenager. But there's that little problem of a lack of education and life experience.

Btw, that chart is particularly deceptive because it's a closeup on a relatively small IQ range.

Almost all the points shown there are between several IQ points below 100 and several points above, from ages 25 to the 80s.

The peak for most of those lines would be mid- to late 50s, and if we're going by that strictly, then we should prefer only candidates of that age.

But we all know of lots of exceptions to that.

As I said in the letter I sent crazytown earlier, even if any of Biden's cognitive abilities have declined since their peak, that's been offset by more years of experience at the highest levels of government.

IQ does not equate with wisdom. And if you think an advantage of a few IQ points is more important than years of knowledge and experience, you're sadly mistaken.

[crazytown]

68. I am not sure why you want to insist

that Joe Biden is a near perfect candidate.

I get into discussions about the vulnerabilities of Warren, Beto, Harris, Buttigieg and others, but with some who prefer Joe, it’s like talking to a brick wall.

[highplainsdem]

70. I don't consider him a perfect candidate. I don't consider ANYONE a "perfect" candidate.

But I don't like ageism any more than racism and sexism.

And btw, Elizabeth Warren is vulnerable to arguments that certain candidates are too old, too.

[Chin music]

77. +1

[uawchild]

26. I feel Biden and Sanders are too old to best represent our party as nominee in 2020

In my opinion both Biden and Sanders just don't seem as sharp as they were 10 years ago. This might very well be related to age related cognitive decline.

Studies indicate that between ages 65-70, males experience roughly a 10% decrease in fluid cognitive skills.

"Fluid reasoning abilities encompass the set of basic cognitive processing abilities necessary to assimilate and integrate critical information about a problem or decision."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/fluid-and-crystallized-intelligence

btw, women seem to suffer cognitive decline ate 50% the rate of similar age males, so Warren (age 69), being about 10 years younger and a woman is not in the same category as Sanders(age 77) and Biden(age 76).

Men seem to suffer a 10% decline between ages 65-70, while women have a 6% decline. It picks up steam in the 70's.

It's not a deal breaker for me in regards to the eventual nominee, especially since I feel Trump is suffering from full blown dementia, but I would prefer if voters got behind one of our excellent younger candidates.

[Skya Rhen]

34. Obviously the majority of the elecotorate currently view the older candidates as more excellent.

[defacto7]

43. It may be true. But you can't change scientific probabilities by a vote.

[highplainsdem]

45. True. Biden, Sanders, and Warren combined have close to 2/3 of the votes in some polls.

[delisen]

58. People are individuals, not statistics

Pre-judging an individual based upon ones membership in a group is to pre-judge that person. Pre-judgemment is prrejudice.

Aside from that in there in terms of cognitive decline, it depends upon where the individual started out in relation to others. A particular younger person may not perform as well as an older person, because the younger person's still level may have been much lower to start with.

,,,and what about emotional intelligence as a characteristic? or the consideration that a leader may be the best fit at one point in time button such a good fit for different circumstances.

For me there iare just too many possibilities here for an arbitrary age disqualification.

When I look at some of the research being g done, I note that there are many test supposed to be designed to measure cognitive decline may really be measure fine motor reaction time or even typing skill and so I am suspicious of results-an individual ay have processed the problem and solved it but be somewhat slower in recording the answer.

Tere is still much to be learned in this area of relative cognitive skills.

[brooklynite]

28. Unrec

Considerations of age may be discriminatory but they do not reflect bigotry on the part of voters. As far as we're concerned, consideration of age as an electoral benefit or drawback is perfectly appropriate.

[highplainsdem]

48. No doubt there are also people who'd say that consideration of gender or race as an electoral

benefit or drawback is perfectly appropriate -- possibly discriminatory but not reflecting bigotry, to borrow your wording.

But I think most people would call them bigots.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

32. Wanting politicians that represent the population is not ageist.

US politicians are significantly more white, male, and old than the population. We need to have politicians that represent the population. Wanting more women, people of color, and young people isn't ageism. It's wanting representation of the population.

[defacto7]

50. Although kids 17 or younger have been diagnosed

with altzheimers, what's the probability of it happening? It's astronomically improbable. What's the probability of mental degeneration among 70 year olds? Very high. This is our natural life cycle.

Now what's the probability of a 40 yo white male being better at thinking than a 40 yo hispanic woman? There are no probabilities because it's a false premise. This comparison would be prejudice .

[Paladin]

52. I got a bellyfull of ageism from some Bernie people, in the run-up to 2016.

They showed their prejudice here at DU---with no sense of irony whatsoever, given their candidate's elderly status.

[BeyondGeography]

55. I'm getting too old for these threads

[tonedevil]

57. I see what you did there. /nt

[mobeau69]

60. An individual must be 16 years old to solo an aircraft,

17 years old to obtain a Private Pilot Certificate, 18 years old to obtain a Commercial Pilot Certificate and 23 years old to obtain an Airline Transport Certificate. FAR Part 121 (major airline regulations) require all pilots to retire at the age of 65.

[BlueStater]

61. Call me whatever you want.

I think 80 is way, way, way too old to be president. You can't change my mind on that. In my opinion, both Biden and Sanders shouldn't be running. At a certain point, you need to know when to pass the torch and that point came for both of them quite some time ago if you ask me.

[Iamaartist]

62. Joe can do it, Paul Mcartney same age as Joe

We seen him 9 times last one in Grand Rapid Mi One On One tour....he did a three hour show non stop. did better then those young rockers...on stage, and doing a tour now..travels all over the world at his age..

Someone has to have foreign experience also to get us out of this mess also he doesn't need job training. We cant afford to lose..,I believe his the only one who can get us out of this mess now...or we are going to lose are freedom...

just my opinion....Go Joe ...who cares if he is older. he has the experience which we need now

[Cha]

66. +1!

[loyalsister]

63. Of people who are skeptical of the reasonableness of nominating older candidates

I have not seen a single post suggesting that it is an inherently bad thing to be advanced in age. The opinions that cite age as a factor worth considering refer to biological realities.
Decline in physical and mental capacity is natural and inevitable. It's not a bad thing, but it is a neutral fact that some think matters when deciding a preference on who would be best suited for an important job.

[highplainsdem]

69. Disagree. Especially since we're seeing ageism-is-okay arguments here from people who

support Elizabeth Warren, who'll be 70 next month.

[MustLoveBeagles]

76. I noticed this too

[loyalsister]

78. It's hypothetical at this point

I would support Warren if I had to vote today. I am hoping to see one of the younger candidates offer plans that are as strong and detailed as hers. I hope to see a strong showing in the debates. There is lot of time to go.

[MarcA]

72. Voters should consider the cognitive ability of a candidate

along with other factors including physical well being.

[Politicub]

73. No one is going to win support by running around calling people ageist

I don't think there will be a single voter persuaded to support someone because they say ageist a lot and loudly.

AARP is a group that represents people who are 50 and older. Of course they're going to create content to make it sound like this is a bigger issue than it is.

[MustLoveBeagles]

75. This is a good article. Thanks for posting it.

People should support whomever they want in the primaries but I don't think a candidate should be disqualified based solely on age. Would most people in Joe Biden's age group be up to being President of the United States? Probably not but that doesn't mean he's not perfectly capable of it. It should be judged on a case by case basis. Just my two cents.

[ecstatic]

80. If we're being honest, there is also a scientific component

And keep in mind, we're the party that likes science.

I like Joe and support him, but we can't pretend as if there aren't any changes to the human body and cognitive function at 70+ years old. The POTUS position is a very demanding job (assuming the person is actually doing the job).

[comradebillyboy]

81. Average life expectancy in the US: 78.6 years

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/life-expectancy.htm

Of course average male life expectancy is somewhat less since women tend to outlive men.

[LAS14]

82. There's pre-judging and there's pre-judging.

Deterioration associated with age is a fact of life that many of us on DU are very familiar with through direct experience. It is not necessarily the kind of thing that shows up in a 90 minute debate.

Beyond that, I think it is legitimate to want the image of the virtues associated with youth (new thinking, energy) as contrasted with the image of the virtues associated with age (experience, wisdom). Note that I say "image," because in a national election image is terribly important. It's hard to get at a fair comparison of new thinking, energy, wisdom and experience beyond the image the candidates project.

Above all, we want to win. We shouldn't demand that the whole electorate look beyond the image projected cuz it won't happen.