Harris knocks Biden on crime bill: 'It did contribute to mass incarceration in our country'

[Autumn]

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) knocked Joe Biden on Wednesday after the former vice president said the 1994 crime bill he helped write did not lead to mass incarceration.

"I have a great deal of respect for Vice President Joe Biden, but I disagree with him," Harris, a former prosecutor, told reporters in New Hampshire.

"That crime bill, that 1994 crime bill, it did contribute to mass incarceration in our country. It encouraged and was the first time that we had a federal three-strikes law. It funded the building of more prisons in the states. So, I disagree, sadly."

Biden, who was a senator from Delaware for decades, was instrumental in pushing for the crime bill, which critics have said led to a spike in incarceration, particularly among African Americans.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443871-harris-knocks-biden-on-crime-bill-it-did-contribute-to-mass-incarceration?fbclid=IwAR1FYpOq9KQEDCEe8YfSir8ySuRlhoDCcDCbmGyt1rgUIfo2qm_-VZiZkFM

[DownriverDem]

1. Why are you so negative?

Could it be because of who you are supporting? Going negative is not going to win anyone to your side.

[Autumn]

2. I've decided to post articles about candidates that I like. You should try it.

I think Kamala is right on this, if you disagree you should post something proving she's wrong.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. Kamala's 100% right on this...good for her bringin attention to the issue of criminal justice reform

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Autumn]

5. The Lady is sharp, that's for sure. nt

[highplainsdem]

132. See this thread. The incarceration rate had been rising sharply since 1970 and may actually have

slowed a bit after the 1994 bill:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. Thanx for that. Hasnt Hillary also repudiated the tough on crime provisions of Joe's '94 Crime Bill?

Thought she had... though my memory could be faulty.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[highplainsdem]

135. Hindsight is perfect. There were some good things about that bill, like the ban on semiautomatic

assault weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

which I think most Democrats would say we need again.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. Agreed!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

19. So which do you like, Biden or Harris?

[Autumn]

21. Harris is in my top 4, Biden isn't on my list, neither are about 23 others. nt

[George II]

49. Well, since there are 23 total, that's a short "top 4".

[Autumn]

51. Since as of May 13, 2019 there are 244 Democratic candidates who have filed to run

for president, my list isn't as short as you think.

[George II]

63. Filing isn't running.

[Autumn]

65. Yeah, go with that George.

[George II]

73. Thanks for the encouragement...

[George II]

129. So which three of the remaining 220 are in your top four?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

152. I have a personal Top-10 list... both Harris and Biden are on it, but...

so far, I put Kamala far ahead of Joe for many reasons, including that reported in the OP.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

171. But don't forget, your #1 (at least here on DU) VOTED for "that reported in the OP"!

[lapucelle]

163. Yeah, go with that Autumn.

[Autumn]

173. I intend to. Keep your donut.

Try them with this. Bye bye

[lapucelle]

177. I hope you'll reconsider Kocklobar.

I prefer fancy bottled water.

[melman]

56. How could a top 4 be any longer

than four?

[George II]

61. You didn't get it....

[NYMinute]

100. Not everyone took AP math in school nt

[Nuggets]

40. Bernie voted for it too. nt

[Autumn]

44. Sanders has always been careful to point out that he saw the law as a compromise

to combat violence against women and he has regularly stated his concerns with mass incarceration. Biden, on the other hand, has always defended his role in crafting the 1994 crime bill. Big difference there.

"I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill, but one part of it that I vigorously support is the Violence Against Women Act. We urgently need the $1.8 billion in this bill to combat the epidemic of violence against women on the streets and in the homes of America."

[Nuggets]

46. Yeah yeah

We’ve heard all of Sanders’ excuses.
He voted for it , the results were still massive incarcerations including black women.
It’s a lame excuse.

I guess black women don’t count ?

Oh and tht Violence against Women Act? That was Biden’s. But I love the newest attempt to give Sanders credit while simultaneously bashing Biden.

[Autumn]

50. Yeah it was Biden's, the whole thing was. Bernie supported that part so he voted for it.

Ask Biden if black women counted in 1994 and the effect the bill had on them. I notice you offer no defense of Biden and the bill. Just bashing Sanders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

76. Apparentlty, Joe can do no wrong. So, blame Bernie... for EVERYTHING!!

It's nothing new!! (Should be used to it by now.)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[LanternWaste]

105. Ironically, your own corollaries are just that.

Nothing new, indeed.

[George II]

58. Yes, there are "compromises" when he votes for or against bills, which is why....

....he voted against the Brady Bill five times, for guns on Amtrak, for protecting gun manufacturers, against the Magnitsky Act and Russia sanctions. He even had a "compromise" when he was the only Senator to miss the vote on Deripaska back in January.

Go to youtube and search for Gilda Radner's "Roseanne Rosanadana" character.

[Nuggets]

183. Bernie voted for it too and his excuse that it was to protect women is hogwash

Or he didn’t care about AA women. So which is it?

At the time if Dems dared not go after drug dealers they were slapped with the soft on crime labels by the GOP and all of the complicit news networks.


Presentism is not a good debating strategy, it makes the arguer seem naive... uninformed.

[JonLP24]

197. I hate these candidate signatures because your motives are questioned if you post something with

a Sanders signature. There is a reason why I'm a Sanders supporter.

[Autumn]

198. I thought of doing like some of the other Sanders supporters and just go with undecided

or trash this group. But I decided to hell with that, I'm a Sanders supporter and will stay a Sanders supporter.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

8. I look forward to you posting this on every OP negative to a Dem candidate.

You'll be busy.

[loyalsister]

74. I don't understand how is it negative when he considers it an accomplishment

Usually candidates want to celebrate the decisions and contributions they view as positive.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

110. Yes, Joe stands proudly by his crime bill, even though, as Kamala correctly points out

it contributed significantly to the increase in incarceration rate, especially among minorities.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[loyalsister]

111. Bill Clinton admits it

Addressing a convention of the N.A.A.C.P. a day after President Obama called for a wholesale overhaul of the criminal justice system, Mr. Clinton embraced the idea. He agreed that the law he enacted in 1994 played a significant part in warping sentencing standards and leading to an era of mass incarceration.

“I signed a bill that made the problem worse,” Mr. Clinton said. “And I want to admit it.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/us/politics/bill-clinton-concedes-his-crime-law-jailed-too-many-for-too-long.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwiE3bWdgaHiAhURLa0KHQ36CZIQFjAGegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw05DS-POJkoGwawD2eBhVXy&cf=1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. I admire Bill's honesty per the quote you posted... I don't think Joe denies this either.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[loyalsister]

128. That's probably true

Sadly, I have not seen any expression of regret. And, denying that it was a contributing factor suggests that he is okay with the consequences.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Joe is politically smart... no doubt he realizes he needs to come out with an apology...

and splain how he's evolved on criminal justice issues. I expect he will do so soon.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[sheshe2]

180. What about BS?

He voted for it.

But one thing that's seldom noted — or only acknowledged as a footnote in stories about the 1994 law — is that Bernie Sanders, Clinton's opponent in the Democratic primary, supported the 1994 crime law too. And while Clinton wasn't in a position to vote for the bill as first lady, Sanders was in Congress — and he did actually vote for it.

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration

[Polly Hennessey]

6. Will not make a scintilla of difference

no matter how hard you and Kamala gnash your teeth. The people who like Joe and believe he will make a great president won’t change their minds. So gnash away.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

7. So no discussion about whether he was right or wrong on that decision?

Hint: he was wrong.

But, seems like a discussion is in order. And saying "people will still like him" kind of looks like a deflection about discussion difficult things.

[Autumn]

11. I think this and her remark that Biden would make a good running mate,

and you just know she was talking about the VP spot shows that she is kicking her campaigning into high gear and talking off the gloves. Playtime is over.

[Polly Hennessey]

36. Having a discussion is fine.

Have a discussion about the issue. My point is: I don’t think it will harm Joe. Kamala hammering away at Joe is not helpful to her. It certainly makes no difference to me. I believe Joe will make a great president.

[treestar]

114. there are plenty of people to think he was right

crime was the big bogeyman back then.

[BlueWI]

146. Some of the people who would be voting Democratic

are still in jail behind that bill or disqualified due to a felony conviction.

The discussion of how to go forward is timely on wedge issues like this that ramp up racial division.

[napi21]

186. The dramatic increase in incarceration was a bad effect, but you need to go back to when the bill

was being debated. One of the reasons it was proposed was the severe discrepancy in judgments by different judges. I'm sure I don't remember everything about this bill, but there was broad support to do something about equalizing sentences, especially repeat offenders. Some punishments, for the same crime, were probation while others were 20 years! There was no consistency between judges. That had to be fixed. Unfortunately, one of the side effects was on minorities. I don't know if the same increase applied to white perps, but that was one of the intents of the bill. That's where the 3 strikes came from.

I'm not defending Joe for being wrong, but parts of the bill fixed some things that needed to be fixed. I hope the parts that were bad are fixed as well.

[rzemanfl]

9. If it wasn't for cooking and baking I would be washing socks.

[Autumn]

10. What you call gnash your teeth I call posting about one of our strong candidates speaking

a whole lot of truth. Is this your first primary? Any candidate who is running to win the nomination is going to talk about the other candidate's records to highlight their differences. That's how a primary works. Harris is running to win and I think that's great. YMMV

[jalan48]

23. Many seem to think it's a cheerleading contest.

[Autumn]

25. People seem to fear discussion about certain candidates.

I think that they must realize that some of our candidates have very soft support and fear any discussion of a candidate's record can result in erosion of that support.

[jalan48]

29. The ostrich approach. Hold our hands over our eyes and ears.

[Autumn]

33. Yep and keep repeating the same mistake. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. Yes, that does seem to be the pattern... I understand their fear though!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Nanjeanne]

53. So I guess we can look forward to all the anti Sanders OPs being gone now that it appears

you are soooo negative to post something Harris said about Biden.

I look forward to that!

[Autumn]

57. Don't count on it. Now that Harris has taken off the gloves and is taking on Biden

there will be more because.... Bernie!!!!!!

[MarcA]

98. Agreed. n/t

[Polly Hennessey]

39. No, it's not my first rodeo.

I think she is a good senator, is smart, and can certainly handle those goofball republicans. Do not believe she would make a good president. On the other hand, Hillary would have been a superb President.

[Autumn]

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like

Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.

[George II]

130. Are any of those in your top four?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=121261

[Autumn]

140. Tired of reading George? I clearly listed Harris as being in my top 4. nt

[George II]

141. Is Kocklobar in your top four? She must be one of those 200+ that we never hear about.

[NurseJackie]

145. Oh!

[lapucelle]

165. Willie Felix Carter or maybe Bernie...

...Korn.

[Autumn]

159. You seem curious George. Kocklobar? Haven't heard of that one so that's a big no.

Kocklobar sounds like something you would go to the ER for. I'll put them down on the list with Biden

[George II]

160. Really Autumn?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=121320

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like

Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.

[lapucelle]

170. Kocklobar must be somewhere on the list of the 224 who registered, but still hasn't filed.

Shame she didn't make the short list of four.

[lapucelle]

166. If I hear someone say he's a Bernie supporter, I'm going to ask if he means Mayor Korn

or the fiery socialist/independent/democrat.

Who am I to assume Bernard Korn isn't on anyone's short list?

http://www.travellinesexpress.com/bernardkorn.htm

[George II]

169. Hah! I wonder if he's friends with Ben & Jerry?

[sheshe2]

151. Gabbard? nt

[tblue37]

176. Klobuchar? nt

[sheshe2]

178. Who or what is a Kocklobar?

Autumn

45. A lot of women would make a superb President. Women like
View profile
Harris, Warren, Kocklobar, Gabbard, Williamson, Gillibrand.

[George II]

181. Apparently it's "something you would go to the ER for."

[sheshe2]

182. Sounds pretty painful.

ER STAT!

[betsuni]

184. A Kocklobar/Buttigieg ticket sounds sort of titillating.

[sheshe2]

185. Oooh.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

153. Regarding who would make a better President, I'd rank Elizabeth ahead of BOTH Kamala and Hillary...

in that order.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

179. Of course.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Thought this was a primary race...Kamala has every right to bring up Joe's tough stand

on the criminal justice system. Good for Kamala and other primary candidates who are bringing this important issue to light and are trying to reform the system.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

172. Perhaps it's time people bring up BS's tough stand on the criminal justice system, too?

[Ace Rothstein]

55. Sounds like a cult.

"The people who like Joe and believe he will make a great president won’t change their minds."

[MarcA]

97. Same could be said of many candidates and trump as well. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

104. People should remain open to other possibilities and see the positive and negative of ALL candidates

including their preferred candidate. I'm willing to point out where I may disagree with Bernie from time to time, and give other candidates a tip of the hat where they deserve it.

I do find it interesting that some ONLY find fault with Bernie, never giving him credit for ANYTHING, while their preferred candidates seemingly can do no wrong. That does seem a bit odd if you ask me -cultish? I'm not sure I'd go THAT far - as no Democratic candidate on the list of 23 can possibly be ALWAYS wrong, nor can they be absolutely perfect.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

122. Do we really want to go there on Biden with Bernie running?

We have people claiming the DNC cheated Bernie out of the 2016 nomination.

[Ace Rothstein]

147. No doubt the hardcore Bernie supporters are cult-like.

I was just replying to a response that I felt was as well. Nobody should ever be that tied to a candidate in a primary with so many options that they refuse to change their mind.

[Autumn]

17. Except your own three paragraph article "proving" it didn't, admits it doesn't have the records

to prove anything. Except for a cool graph with red lines for estimates that must mean something or another. I think Kamala Harris knows a thing or two about incarceration.

We don’t have formal historical records of incarceration rates by race, but there are plenty of good estimates.

[LongtimeAZDem]

18. Withdrawn

[cannabis_flower]

14. I believe it also provided for..

militarization of police forces and asset forfeitures.

[Autumn]

22. When I read what she said I started looking up information on that crime bill. I never

realized the actual harm that bill did. I found this earlier but it doesn't mention militarization of police forces and asset forfeitures. I'm going to look for more on that later.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/reports/2019/03/26/467486/1994-crime-bill-continues-undercut-justice-reform-heres-stop/

The 1994 Crime Bill Continues to Undercut Justice Reform—Here’s How to Stop It

The legacy of the Violent Crime Control Act and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, better known as the crime bill, has re-emerged in the national debate around criminal justice reform and public safety.1 Many consider the crime bill—which is best known for dramatically increasing harsh penalties for drug crimes, especially mandatory minimum sentences—to be one of the cornerstone statutes that accelerated mass incarceration.2 But the law’s negative effects did not end there. States and localities were incentivized through a massive infusion of federal funding to build more jails and prisons and to pass so-called truth-in-sentencing laws and other punitive measures that simultaneously increased the number and length of prison sentences while reducing the possibility of early release for those incarcerated.3

It has been well-documented that these policies were failures.4 Their cost to society came not only from the staggering amount of taxpayer dollars that were invested in enforcement, but also from the disproportionate incarceration of a generation of African American men in the name of public safety. Moreover, tough-on-crime measures—specifically longer incarceration sentences—have had at best a marginal effect on improving public safety.5

Elected leaders today are attempting to unwind some of the most harmful effects of the crime bill through criminal justice reform measures. As part of that reform effort, a number of cities have pursued public health models and community-based strategies alongside innovative policing approaches. However, the effectiveness of those efforts has been and will continue to be muted because the machinery that the crime bill created and preserved has never stopped churning. The same funding streams that overwhelmingly support enforcement activities over proven preventative and restorative solutions continue to this day—albeit with tweaks around the edges. States still look to build new jails and prison facilities,6 even as crime rates remain near historic lows.7 At the same time, Congress continues to advocate for new criminal statutes and higher criminal penalties, even as it proposes to lower some mandatory minimum sentences.8

Before considering what additional reforms are needed to fix a severely broken criminal justice system, U.S. elected leaders must first stop supporting the very mechanisms that caused the failure in the first place. Borrowing from the field of medicine, lawmakers must embrace the notion of “first, do no harm”—or more accurately, “do no more harm.”9 This issue brief spotlights four problematic tough-on-crime policies exacerbated by the crime bill that remain in place and continue to undermine reform efforts. Only when these destructive policies are reversed can the rebuilding of the criminal justice system truly take root to prevent harm in the future.

[cannabis_flower]

27. It isn't just this bill though, he voted for all of them and...

wrote some of them... Here's a more detailed article on what his record on this is:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/08/biden-crime-mass-incarceration-police-prisons

[cannabis_flower]

38. It provided money

for local police, prosecutors and equipment.

[vsrazdem]

15. Its called vetting, If Joe couldn't take it, he would not have jumped in, and disagreeing with past

policy is not considered being negative. Joe is not a Savior. He is going to get vetted on his past policies and votes, I think you should get used to it.

[LakeArenal]

108. Joe couldn't care less about this post.

[Autumn]

125. Joe doesn't care but his supporters sure do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. Joe understands vetting, for sure, given the two past Democratic primary races, 1988 & 2008, he lost

after getting vetted. Given those prior losses, Joe certainly is ready for this, his third, primary election and these kind of questions that he surely had to know would come up. Based on his political expertise and experience, Joe surely has answers that were prepared WAY in advance... why he's not coming out with those answers swiftly is a bit of a mystery to me.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[cannabis_flower]

16. Oh I forfeiture might not have been this bill...

but it did do this : Elimination of higher education for inmates

Forfeiture was this bill: Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 and he was in the Senate where it passed on a voice vote.

It also increased federal penalties for marijuana.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. Didn't realize that about weed... that's not good!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SouthernProgressive]

20. Good for Harris to point out.

Sanders and Biden supporting the crime bill should be a tough pill for everyone to swallow.

I appreciate the direction the party and our candidates are taking when it comes to criminal justice reform today.

An interesting piece of information is that the husband of Kamala's current campaign chair was also instrumental in writing and passing the 1994 crime bill. Tony West.

Our two top polling candidates both supported the bill.

[Autumn]

35. Fascinating.

[SouthernProgressive]

43. It is a bit fascinating how our two current leading candidates...

both supported this legislation. I really wish it was a non-starter at the time. It's impact has generated so much pain.

But both of our leading candidates have very solid history in most all areas. It's no real wonder why Biden is doing so well considering his stature and his steadfast support in the fight in ending violence against women. Then there is Sanders with his consistent rhetoric about economic justice. Makes sense that they could support something like the crime bill yet are really doing well today.

The Harris connection I mentioned isn't really a connection. More like a fun "it's a small world" kind of fact.

Always glad to deliver a laugh, for whatever reason. The world needs more smiles.

[Autumn]

60. A little off topic but who are you keeping a forgiveness chart for? Yourself or Jesus?

[SouthernProgressive]

64. I don't have a forgiveness chart.

Forgiveness comes easy for me.

I'm really not big on talking religion. Thanks.

[Autumn]

68. Have you looked at your sig line? nt

[SouthernProgressive]

69. I think it's funny. It's a Clinton quote.

Not everything is to be taken literal. I can't imagine reading that and taking it literally.

[Autumn]

71. You just never know.

[SouthernProgressive]

77. That is true. But I think an overwhelming number of people would.

Can you imagine the chart Clinton would have!



She is such a wonderful person.

[George II]

143. I didn't realize that about Tony West. He's also the husband of Kamala Harris' sister, too.

Guess we should write off all three, eh?

To think we still have about 9 months of micro-examining the records of the 23 candidates before the first caucus. It's going to be exhausting.

[SouthernProgressive]

144. I'm a big supporter of two out of the three.

I’ve sent bot Harris and Biden money. I truly believe either would make a great President.

[left-of-center2012]

24. Harris is wrong, again

The bill, Biden insisted, “didn’t generate mass incarceration,” pointing instead to state criminal justice systems that he says are responsible for more than 9 out of 10 prisoners in the United States.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1315844/joe-biden-steps-up-the-retail-politics-in-new-hampshire.html

Harris needs to run on her record,
and stop tearing down Biden.

[Autumn]

30. I would love to read your rebuttal but unfortunately everything there is redacted

except for the question you have to answer about games. Too much of a hassle. The 1994 crime bill is a big part of Biden's record. In a primary candidate's do bring up the other candidate's records. That's how primaries work and you know it. I've never seen a primary where each person running sit's around all day singing the praises of the candidates they are running against for the nomination like people seem to want .

[left-of-center2012]

34. "singing the praises of the candidates they are running against"

I didn't say that.

She needs to run on her own record.
Like her proposal to jail parents of kids who play hooky from school?

[Autumn]

37. She is running on her own record and she's running against his. nt

[treestar]

120. +1 trolls on her page

do the same thing to her - question every choice as prosecutor. Not sure she wants to go there, really.

[Kahuna7]

59. Not only that, but since when is "encouraging" law?

Is she trying to shift the stink she's getting for her incarceration rates?

[Skya Rhen]

86. Could be a strategy to deflect - she was on the receiving end

for months, by critics...

[Kahuna7]

88. I know. I do think the criticism she has received is unfair..

But still, it sounds ridiculous to say that law "encouraged....."

[Skya Rhen]

109. I completely agree...

[Kaleva]

67. Where did you get in the article that Harris tried to tear down Biden?

She plainly said in simple English that she "disagreed" with him.

[Kaleva]

91. The legislation offered state financial incentives to impose stricter sentencing laws

"Among other things, the legislation offered states financial incentives to impose stricter sentencing laws and enacted a three-strikes rule that imposed a mandatory life sentence if a person with two or more prior convictions was found guilty of a violent crime.... "

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443871-harris-knocks-biden-on-crime-bill-it-did-contribute-to-mass-incarceration?fbclid=IwAR1FYpOq9KQEDCEe8YfSir8ySuRlhoDCcDCbmGyt1rgUIfo2qm_-VZiZkFM

[emmaverybo]

149. Also contained Violence Against Women Act; established drug deterrence courts; allocated

Billions to crime prevention programs; had strong gun regulations; strong penalties for hate, civil rights, and sex crimes; mandated a sex offender registry...

Law abiding victims of the crack epidemic, a scourge which resulted in increased violence in many black neighborhoods, were demanding a “crack down” and crime clean-up in their communities. They wanted an end to revolving door policies that no sooner took offenders away than put them back on their street corners or in crack houses next door where landlords managed by remote.
They wanted an end to drive-by shootings, gang activity, and law enforcement neglect. The feeling was that they suffered from a lack of police presence and willingness to get involved because their safety was not seen as a priority. They felt, and it was true, that ninety five percent lawful residents were being victimized by a lawless five percent.

Biden is right not to denounce all parts of the 1994 bill. He does see the racial disparity in sentencing that came out of the intense focus on crack vs. cocaine. I don’t know if he has yet addressed three strikes and you are out. Some adverse effects did come in at the state level, as Harris should know.

Also controversial are the list of crimes demanding the death penalty.

Still, Biden should NOT renounce the bill in its entirety.

I think it is incumbent upon the voting public to review the bill, as well as to understand the extreme conditions that gave rise to it.

The question of mass incarceration both concerns the bill and goes to other justice system developments outside of it, as well as brings up the issue of economic motives which created a corrections industry.

For a review of all parts of the bill, to fairly assess Biden’s response, read : Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

Meant this in reply to OP! Sorry. Don’t know how to reroute.

[treestar]

115. +1 and I thought they signed that pledge

and if they weren't there to vote on it themselves, they cannot prove they would not have voted for it, too.

These types of things only prove Biden has been around so long and knows the government inside and out, a very good qualification for following the Dotard.

Stick with why we need to elect you, not why we should not elect the others. Jebus, save it for the Dotard, who really is a disaster in the office.

[left-of-center2012]

116. Stick with why we need to elect you, not why we should not elect the others.

Agreed !

[dalton99a]

26. Ending Mass Incarceration: Ideas from Today's Leaders

https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/ending-mass-incarceration-ideas-todays-leaders

[Autumn]

32. Thanks for that link! Nice list of authors, almost all of our candidates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. As an undecided voter

As an undecided voter I find myself gravitating toward the most positive candidate with the most positive supporters.

[Autumn]

31. Yeah me too. Still looking for one and so far the only one seems to be Andrew Yang, nt

[Vidal]

41. Was Buttigieg even born then?

The crime bill was passed an awfully long time ago.

Not really relevant for this campaign.

What is relevant is this: where do all the candidates stand on criminal justice reform TODAY????

Let's focus on current issues.

Kamala Harris made some questionable decisions in her past also. Let's not attack her for that.

Of course it's easy for Bernie to attack since he's never done anything except give speeches and raise money.

[Autumn]

47. I think it's very relevant considering the harm it's done. As far as I know he still supports it .

There is a terrific link about ideas on ending mass incarceration authored by almost all of the main candidates, well except for yours, posted above. Post # 26. I'm going to read it later.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287121200#post26

[Vidal]

52. Well, Autumn

You seem very determined to make this a "thing" to hurt Biden, but I don't think it will work, no matter how hard you try.

[Autumn]

54. Well Vidal, the only thing that can hurt any candidate are their own actions. It's called vetting,

like it or not it happens to all of them. I posted this because I like the fact that Kamala has stepped up her game and is actually campaigning against the "front runner". She came out fierce on this. I admire a fighter.

[Vidal]

82. It makes no sense . . .

to attack Biden for a position he took 25 years ago.

Vetting would be to analyze all the positions they are taking right now.

Of course, it's easy to attack Biden because he has such a long career in government, where he has done a lot of things.

Not so much with Sanders. He's never really accomplished anything that I can see, so there is nothing to attack. His main accomplishment that I see is giving speeches attacking real Democrats. Of course, this is why most Democrats don't like him. And he has no chance of winning the Democratic Party nomination.

[Autumn]

92. The crime bill of his that did so much harm wasn't a position. And off to the deflection

bashing of Bernie.

[emulatorloo]

187. But Bernie voted for the bill. The only deflection here is handwaving Senator Sanders' vote away

“because reasons.” I expect Harris will criticize both Sanders and Biden.

[Autumn]

188. She should and I hope she does. If you want to start an OP about Bernie voting for it you should

do that. I'm not a delicate little flower when it comes to facts. He did vote for it. If Kamala mentions it I will probably comment on it and I won't be the one to bring up... But Joe! “because reasons.”

[emulatorloo]

189. No I am not going to start an OP like that. I am only posting positive OPs about our candidates

Besides in the historical context many AA leaders were in favor of the bill. We see now in hindsight that it was mistaken. I think those who voted for it then now understand that.

I personally think what we need to do in this forum is boost up all of our candidates. They all share the same set of core values, and the same policy goals.

They may have different plans how to achieve their goals, but I honestly don’t care about that enough to tear them down over that.

Trump is literally destroying our Country. All of our candidates seek income inequality, civil rights, good jobs for working people. And they are going to protect the most vulnerable of our citizens.

Always so good to talk with you Autumn. Love your posts.

[Autumn]

190. I think that my OP was a positive post. I don't have any problem with her bringing this up.

I very much respect her opinion on it and her taking on Biden made my day. I really hope to see her and the other women do a lot more of it. Liz, Kamala, Tulsi, and Williamson are like a breath of fresh air in a field of the usual smoke. I have stated I don't like Biden due to his attitude on recent events but that's my opinion, not a teardown and I'm not going to make up lies to post about him. I've praised him on some things in the past. I just think he's not what we need at this dangerous time. Thanks for the kind words, those are rare around here.

[emulatorloo]

191. I personally see Biden and Harris as allies.

All our candidates are allies imho. FWIW my top 4 candidates now are Harris, Mayor Pete, Warren, and Biden.

I heard Biden speak in Cedar Rapids. It was fiery and calm where it needed to be and very uplifting.

Going to hear the others as soon as I can.

[Autumn]

192. They all are allies but as far as campaign allies I see Kamala more aligned with Liz or Pete.

I would like to see Inslee break out.

[emulatorloo]

193. I'd be quite happy w your three/my four as President/Vice Presidential candidates in the GE

Hope that makes sense, such as:

Warren/Harris
Biden/Harris
Warren/Buttigieg

Etcetera, any and all combinations/permutations

Inslee does seem good, will do more research. have you done an OP about him? If so I would love to read it!

[Autumn]

194. Here's the one I did on Inslee. Seems not a lot of people care about the most important issue

of our time. Bernie's taxes ya know.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128733004

I also did one on Beto

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128751379

[emulatorloo]

195. Thank you for both!

[treestar]

119. +1

Why are we arguing about a 20-year-old bill? I was an adult then and don't remember details. Probably a few younger people never heard of it before. And whether it "caused mass incarceration" is certainly arguable. All I recall from the 90s was crime was the big thing. It was the Mueller Report of that Era. All those crime shows started coming on and 24 hour news started, giving people the impression crime was everywhere and increasing.

[Voltaire2]

158. There are lots of people still in prison

sentenced because of thus bill to stunningly long terms.

[IluvPitties]

42. 25 years ago, pagers were a thing.

[Autumn]

48. On could say that in the last 25 years pagers have evolved into cell phones. So that's a thing too.

[LanternWaste]

106. One would then be wrong. Two wholly separate technologies

brought together only to create awkward and inaccurate equivalencies.

[Autumn]

107. It's not as awkward as you want it to be. The need for a pager went away with the cell phone. nt

[Kaleva]

62. Title would be more accurate if it said Harris disagreed with Biden on effects of crime bill

[Autumn]

66. She didn't just disagree. She flat out called him out on it, very politely but she went there.

[Kaleva]

70. Harris said she disagreed. You are saying Harris is calling Biden a liar.

[Autumn]

78. Quite the stretch with that accusation against me there. I never said she called him a liar.

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) knocked Joe Biden on Wednesday after the former vice president said the 1994 crime bill he helped write did not lead to mass incarceration.

"I have a great deal of respect for Vice President Joe Biden, but I disagree with him," Harris, a former prosecutor, told reporters in New Hampshire.

"That crime bill, that 1994 crime bill, it did contribute to mass incarceration in our country. It encouraged and was the first time that we had a federal three-strikes law. It funded the building of more prisons in the states.So, I disagree, sadly."

She called him out on him saying it did not lead to mass incarceration. Very politely.

[Kaleva]

79. " To challenge the truthfulness or genuineness of:"

"Call out - definition of call out by The Free Dictionary"

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/call+out

So you said that Harris "called out" Biden which means that Harris said that Biden wasn't truthful and thus a liar.

Your comment:

"She flat out called him out on it"

If one is not being truthful, then one must be lying. It's one or the other.

[Autumn]

87. Who do you think is being truthful? Her or him?

He says it caused no harm, she says it did. "She flat out called him out on it". Very politely. No one used the word liar but you. I agree with her.

[Kaleva]

90. I cannot say as my knowledge on the issue is about zero.

This thread is the first time I've heard about it.

[Autumn]

95. I got to wondering how it was that on the DU an intelligent woman of color can fall behind

Joe Biden an"old white man" when for months on end we have heard endlessly "no more old white men". So I started to pay attention to Harris to see what was going on. When I saw what she said I started looking at the crime bill, I had no idea what it had done but I know without a shadow of a doubt with her background in law when she says that crime bill caused harm that crime bill caused harm.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

155. Kamala should know, given her criminal prosecution background.

[Uncle Joe]

72. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread Autumn.

[mtnsnake]

75. It was a bad bill for sure but I wonder if Biden would have pushed for it had he known

how badly it would have targeted African Americans at the time. If Biden could have peered into the future at that time, I doubt he would have ever supported such a bill as that one. I'm not letting him off the hook on it, but I do have to think he wouldn't have done it if he had known ahead of time how it ended up working out.

[SidDithers]

80. That's the bill that Bernie Sanders voted for, isn't it?...nt

Sid

[R B Garr]

81. Yes, but it's been explained how pure his vote was.

[Kahuna7]

89. +1 nt

[Cha]

168. Haha.. BS' vote was "pure"!?

I hadn't heard that..

Sanders Campaign Says He Voted For Crime Bill Due To Weapons Ban That Wasn't There

The House version of the bill, which passed the House that April and which Sanders has been criticized for voting for when he was a representative from Vermont, did not include an assault weapons ban.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons

[Autumn]

84. Yes it is indeed that bill that he voted for, that's not in question. Biden says his bill

caused no harm, much of the rest of the field and a shit ton of others say that it did cause harm, including Kamala Harris.

[sheshe2]

142. BS voted for it.

Biden says his bill

caused no harm, much of the rest of the field and a shit ton of others say that it did cause harm, including Kamala Harris.

Is there a quote where he, Bernie, admits it did cause harm and regrets his vote supporting it?

[Baclava]

83. You can scratch her off his list of VP choices

I knew this would be a war

[Autumn]

85. I think she scratched him off hers.

[Baclava]

96. Is Tim Kaine available? lol

After the bloodbath of the primaries, he might be the last one standing

[Autumn]

99. I hope not.

[highplainsdem]

112. That's hilarious, all right, considering the polls.

[Skya Rhen]

93. Strategy-wise, his team will have to select the best fit.

It might be Harris, Klobuchar, Warren or another dynamic woman in Congress (that has not even been mentioned, as yet).

But his decision will have to be carefully thought out so as not to diminish his chance of winning, in the general.

Hopefully he makes as wise a VP pick, as the one Obama made...

[Kaleva]

94. Reagan had George H. W. Bush as his VP

Despite what Bush had said about Reagan's trickle down economic plan.

[treestar]

121. They've forgiven worse

Biden himself made a couple of his famous gaffes during the primary.

[JI7]

157. Tim Kaine was one of the first Big Names to Endorse Obama and led to the other Senators Endorsing

OBama Over Clinton.

things can get ugly but good people like Hillary and i would include Kamala Harris and Joe Biden among them are not going to hold grudges and in the end will do the right thing for the country.

[NYMinute]

101. This will make Harris's numbers go down

and she won't be in the running for VP.

[cynatnite]

103. Over 20 years ago being seen as weak on crime got you kicked out of office...

I'm not making excuses, but that was a huge thing in those days. You could not be weak on crime. Period.

Bill Clinton wrote about it in his book.

[treestar]

139. [phone]

[treestar]

113. She should tell us why she should get the nomination

Not why Biden should not. How do we know how she would have voted had she been there?

It was meant to crack down on crime. More people in jail was the point. Or at least more people deterred by the bigger threat of jail. That doesn't seem to always work.

Then again, crime rates have gone down and there might be an argument it worked.

[Steven Maurer]

123. She has. And saying you disagree with someone is not bashing them

Hell, I think I disagree with her on this. Not because she's wrong about the negatives but because that bill also had a huge number of positives as well, including money for rehabilitation that otherwise Republicans would never have voted for.

Friends can disagree. Even rivals can disagree respectfully. That's what's happening here.

[treestar]

126. I've already seen her facing disagreement on many of her decisions as prosecutor

And defended her, saying it was her decision to make, it was long ago, and the current basher doesn't know how they would handle it. One is about a truancy law, another is about not prosecuting Mnuchin and there can be thousands of others. Dating Willie Brown ages ago has brought some vile comments from right wing trolls. These two need to not add to this regarding each other.

They all need to tell us why they are the one, not why the others aren't. They are all vulnerable. Who is perfect? Nobody.

[Steven Maurer]

150. While I largely agree with you...

you can stake out a position and say it is different than other candidates in the race. I don't think that's beyond the pale.

The problem comes when a candidate attacks others hypocritically. Like Sanders attacking Clinton over her rhetorical support for the 1994 Crime Bill that he himself voted for.

I don't even see this as an attack, really. Kamala is trying to make clear that while she is a prosecutor, she is one who understand that the system is abused by racists.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

136. Kamala HAS spoken to why she should get the nomination...that & callin Joe's crime prevention

policies into question, however, are NOT mutually exclusive. Indeed, she's spoke specifically on her own tough on crime stance involving child truancy.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

138. No she should not do both

and none of the others should do it to her either.

It creates a lot of negativity that leads to voter fatigue.

[highplainsdem]

124. Mass incarceration had already quadrupled in the 24 years before that bill. In the 15

years after it passed, the mass incarceration rate doubled, which obviously wasn't the improvement needed, but was actually a slight slowing.

See this thread for a Brennan Center article:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066

If people aren't aware of how fast mass incarceration was increasing BEFORE 1994, they might think it started with that bill.

But it didn't.

[Skya Rhen]

148. This definitely puts things into perspective...

[Kaleva]

164. The arguement isn't that the bill started mass incarceration but that...

the bill did contribute to it.

[dem4decades]

127. I thought this was a tough row to hoe for her?

[AlexSFCA]

154. As long as Biden is a clear winner over trump in the polls

the rest is just noise. We, registered democrats, will vote for whoever has the best chance to beat trump, period. Unfortunately, pseudo democrat, BS, is screwing the primary by not letting actual democrats like Warren and Harris to get ahead in the polls. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of registered democrats and independent voters are not socialists, they are capitalists. Biden, Warren and Harris are fighting hard save capitalism while BS is working hard to destroy it. All current true democrats running in primary are progressive capitalists by ideology.

[highplainsdem]

161. 2016 NBC News analysis: Black leaders supported the 1994 crime bill

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/analysis-black-leaders-supported-clinton-s-crime-bill-n552961


Please read the entire article. Black leaders were also very concerned about crime then, and they didn't have the benefit of hindsight years after the bill was passed.



And please see the other replies I posted in this thread, and this separate thread

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122066

about mass incarceration having quadrupled already between 1970 and 1994. The 1994 bill didn't increase that trend and in fact might have slowed it slightly.

Anyway, before hammering Biden on this bill, people should put it in context.

[Skya Rhen]

162. In fact, most black people supported it. As a POC, I can tell you that this was a very popular bill

in the AA community.

In the eighties, crime was rampant and we were desperate for help. Our voices were finally heard and the Clinton administration came up with a bill that we were satisfied with. It was laser-focused to address a lot of of our concerns and it resulted in us feeling safer on our streets, which was the primary objective.

Years later, human nature is now presenting itself in the form of "Monday morning quarterbacking"...

[ancianita]

167. It's a hit, but an unfair one. Michelle Alexander's 'The New Jim Crow' shows the whole scene that

Clinton, congress and the Congressional Black Congress were living through was such that they ALL felt they had to "get tough on crime."

The country was awash in crack and cocaine. The Congressional Black Caucus ITSELF urged Clinton and Congress to do something to deter drugs everywhere.

The end vote on the War On Drugs Act only had 11 no votes. It was pretty much close to unanimous. So THAT bill that contributed to mass incarceration was equally the work of both parties.

Overall, it's not what Harris is saying, but what she's NOT saying that is relevant here.

She cannot in good faith foreground Biden's vote as "instrumental" when the whole Democratic Party of that time was behind Clinton's new urge to show Repubs that he and his party weren't limp wristed limousine liberals, but would be tougher on crime than Repubs would be in the drug war.

Harris' highlighting Biden is campaign stuff. But I don't take it seriously.

No one in the context of those days, when she was just a girl, was "instrumental" but Clinton and his legislation staff.

[tishaLA]

174. She's right that the 1994 crime bill

Supported by Biden and the junior senator from VT was terrible in terms of mass incarceration.

[JonLP24]

196. Go Harris!!

She is in my top 4 for a reason.