So...let's say Joe's right...

[TCJ70]

...and the Republicans have their epiphany. There’s roses and smiles and rainbows all around as unity magically occurs between everyone. Republicans, amazingly, do a complete 180 from their decades long bad faith behavior and come bearing olive branches to welcome their new Democratic friends.

What kind of policies do you expect to get passed in terms of climate change and healthcare from such a situation?

[earthshine]

1. Policies that liberals will hate and Big Oil will love.

Climate change needs to be front and center in these debates.

They keep saying "We have twelve years." I don't believe that.

We had twelve years, but it was twelve years ago.

[TCJ70]

24. That's certainly what I'd expect the Republicans to want...n/t

[brooklynite]

74. So you're saying Joe Biden would be a sellout...

...that's nice.

[earthshine]

75. You know, now that you phrase it that way ...

Biden is obviously far too buddy-buddy with the Republicans.

If he becomes president, they will pull him to the right instead of him pulling them toward his sense of "normalcy."

Joe Biden thinks Dick Cheney is a good guy.

A few years ago, I saw recordings of the Clarence Thomas confirmation proceedings. As for Biden, I saw a man trying harder to show that he was in charge rather than give the opposition its due. Ya see, he can control the left side, but not the right.

I have disliked that man every since then.

[NYMinute]

78. Biden is no pushover

ask Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan.

[earthshine]

82. How about you ask Anita Hill?

[Demit]

2. Very corporate-friendly ones.

[Skittles]

3. CORRECT

[uponit7771]

20. There's a difference between the parties

[BannonsLiver]

4. I doubt that many GOPers change their minds

I respectfully disagree with Biden on that. So it’s really moot. In the end what would get passed during his admin would come down to what it always comes down to — who has control of the house and senate. I’m not offended that he said it, but I just can’t envision the epiphany happening.

[Hortensis]

19. The goal IS power. Not a bipartisan picnic.

If we have the presidency and Congress we can pursue our agenda, and great needs mean it’s going to have to be a great one.

Everyone should go over and take a look at the current democratic party platform. Just read a few things. Yes, it’s going to have to be tweaked and added to, some problems that were already emergencies are much worse now and other emergencies have been created. But it’s impressive and reassuring anyway.

[Skya Rhen]

5. Let's say Bernie wins - what type of policies will get passed? And how, with a Republican-controlled

Senate?

[TCJ70]

6. That's not an unfair question...

...it was levied towards him repeatedly in the last primary. As far as I know he never really claimed to want/be able to work with Republicans in any significant way if he was president, though.

You’re a Biden supporter, would you like to answer the question?

EDIT: I’ve been corrected on my Bernie point by lapucelle down below.

[Skya Rhen]

11. So, with a Republican-controlled Senate BS will get none of his policies passed. Sounds like a plan

[TCJ70]

15. You Biden people sure have a thing for bringing up Bernie.

You won’t get any arguments from me on your point, though.

Now that we agree on that...would you like to answer the question.

[sheshe2]

18. ...

Bernie Sanders says he’ll work with Trump on working class issues
PUBLISHED WED, NOV 9 2016 8:13 PM ESTUPDATED WED, NOV 9 2016 8:54 PM EST

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/bernie-sanders-says-hell-work-with-trump-on-working-class-issues.html

[TCJ70]

21. That was after the primary when he was definitely NOT going to be pres...

...so thanks but that’s not what I said. It’s also not something I was unaware of.

[Nuggets]

32. So timing means it doesn't matter that he stated

he would work with Trump?

Please move the goal posts one more pedantic step!

[TCJ70]

33. The goal posts never moved...

...here’s my statement they were responding to:

As far as I know he never really claimed to want/be able to work with Republicans in any significant way if he was president, though.

You’re a Biden supporter...what kind of legislation do you think would garner Republican votes on healthcare and climate change?

[Nuggets]

42. Yup

That was after the primary when he was definitely NOT going to be pres...

far as I know he never really claimed to want/be able to work with Republicans in any significant way if he was president, though.

The question was:
What significant work will he do with Republicans?
To
What significant work has he said he’d do with Republicans before the primaries

That’s moving the goal posts.
It doesn’t matter when he said it
What difference does that make?




Thus far Republican voters want the ACA which is why McConnell couldn’t repeal “Obamacare “



What does Bernie have on either that will garner Republican votes? He’s less likely to get anything done with his socialist image.
Which one of these views is closer to a conservative views and thus more likely to garner their votes?

[TCJ70]

44. I'm not a Bernie supporter...

...so I have no intention of defending him here. You’re going a very long way to misunderstand what I said. The context of that paragraph was the 2016 primary.

[Nuggets]

51. Did anyone say you were a Sanders supporter?

I said timing doesn’t matter, he said it and he said it before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/08/bernie-sanders-dont-be-surprised-if-we-do-well-with-a-number-of-republicans/

But since your post is about taking Joe dwn and not understanding that division isn’t a winning strategy let’s look at another fact.


Sanders is farther to the left and unlikely to get anything done at all because he can’t even work with the Democratic Party he uses each election.

Biden has a better chance of getting Republicans to agree to climate change policies because he is more moderate, because he works well with others.

[marylandblue]

91. Not because he is too far left, but because of his personality.

Warren is pretty far left too, but I think she would work better with Congress than Sanders would. But if the Senate stays under McConnell, he's already promised nothing will get through. I hope that Biden's hoped-for epiphany is just code for him making "offers they can't refuse." I don't know how he will do that, but it's not really something we are supposed to know.

[lapucelle]

54. ...

Goldberg: So if you can't sit down with Mitch McConnell and work this out easily, how do you envision the first 100 days of your presidential term? What's going to go on to make this revolution occur?

Sanders:First of all, it's not that I can't work with Mitch McConnell. I have worked with Mitch McConnell. In fact, last session of Congress, before the Democrats were defeated, as you may or may not know, I was the chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs. Working with people like John McCain, who is a friend of mine. Working with people like Jeff Miller, who is the Republican chair in the House. We passed the most comprehensive VA healthcare legislation in the modern history of this country. It was one of the major pieces of legislation passed.

If you check my record going back to the House, there were many years where I passed more amendments on the floor with Republican support than any other member. So I know how to work with the Republicans.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-bernie-sanders-editorial-board-20160323-snap-story.html

[Cha]

64. Hmm.. interesting Find, lapucelle!

Thank You!

[lapucelle]

65. Interesting enough to bookmark, Cha.

Mahalo my friend!

[Cha]

72. Yes, Alohahoa!

[sheshe2]

59. Umhm.

Sanders: Trump on right track with North Korea

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/bernie-sanders-north-korea-donald-trump-cnntv/index.html

[lapucelle]

66. And BS has certainly agreed with Republicans in the past

when it comes to gun legislation and Russia sanctions.

[sheshe2]

71. Those too.

[Skya Rhen]

22. Oh, no - that is disqualifying to have uttered such words! I can't believe he said that!

[sheshe2]

23. Ha!

[lapucelle]

41. Bernie Sanders: I see areas where I can work with Trump

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/bernie-sanders-can-work-with-trump-233532

Sanders: I'm 'prepared to work with' Trump

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/sanders-trump-work-together-231158

Bernie Sanders: I can do business with Donald Trump on wages, trade, Social Security

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article115360103.html#storylink=cpy

[TCJ70]

43. Once again...

...all of those articles are well after the primary. Bernie was definitely NOT going to be president at that point. Thanks, though.

[lapucelle]

49. How about this one from a March 2016 interview with the editorial board of the LA Times?

Goldberg: So if you can't sit down with Mitch McConnell and work this out easily, how do you envision the first 100 days of your presidential term? What's going to go on to make this revolution occur?

Sanders:First of all, it's not that I can't work with Mitch McConnell. I have worked with Mitch McConnell. In fact, last session of Congress, before the Democrats were defeated, as you may or may not know, I was the chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs. Working with people like John McCain, who is a friend of mine. Working with people like Jeff Miller, who is the Republican chair in the House. We passed the most comprehensive VA healthcare legislation in the modern history of this country. It was one of the major pieces of legislation passed.

If you check my record going back to the House, there were many years where I passed more amendments on the floor with Republican support than any other member. So I know how to work with the Republicans.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-bernie-sanders-editorial-board-20160323-snap-story.html

[TCJ70]

50. Good find!

I’m happy to be wrong. That why I put “as far as I know” in there.

Thanks!

[lapucelle]

52. Good enough to bookmark.

[TCJ70]

53. I edited my post...

...and gave you credit for the correction.

[dalton99a]

7. There will be no epiphany. They will regroup and plot their revenge and sabotage.

[Thekaspervote]

8. And in all reality I'm sure Joe Biden is fully aware of that

[TCJ70]

9. So he's lying?

Great.

[Nuggets]

36. Smart.

You catch more flies with honey. Campaigning on division is not a winning theme.

[George II]

61. Guess not, eh?

[Indygram]

10. I honestly prefer the way Beto O'Rourke approaches unity, reaching out and working with Republicans

He does NOT change his message one iota. He will NOT take the base for granted and take on the attitude that he is entitled to their votes. Likewise, he won't just write off Republicans and Independents either. He will show up and talk to EVERYONE, sticking with the courage of his convictions. He looks for the opportunities to work together on the things that he can and then he tries to sell progressive policies to conservatives by explaining how those policies benefit them. He does NOT pander or alter his message at all. Because he shows up, listens and doesn't write those voters off they feel valued and respected and are open to hearing him out. That's how you get people to rethink where they stand. If you can win over enough voters then the elected lawmakers have to go along for the ride.

As Beto says...you do NOT have to take the base for granted in order to not write rural or more conservative voters off. It's not an either/or...as long as you go to both groups with the SAME message.

[Hortensis]

12. Yes, let's.

Because those who refused to vote against Trump/Repubs in 2016 are just as responsible for what they’re doing as those who voted for him.

Something else they all have been in common is that too few, left or right, admits the evil in what they’ve done.

But some have real regrets, and of course we must all unite to overwhelm those who will do it all over again. All that counts is how people vote in 2020. Nothing else.

[TCJ70]

14. Oooook...

...not sure what this has to do with the topic, but, sure.

[Hortensis]

16. But I do.

And I believe if you think about it, you will too. Everyone who calls for uniting to stop the RW and save our democracy is on the side of right. Period.

[TCJ70]

17. But that's not what's being predicted...

...Biden predicted republicans coming around the campfire and suddenly being amenable to working together in Congress.

You bringing up voters in response to that doesn’t make sense.

[JI7]

13. they won't have an epiphany. what might happen is with Biden being a white man

the right wing base might be less likely to tolerate Republicans refusing to work with him in areas which affect them.

it's one thing when it's a woman or black man since they see opposing things as standing up to them. but that may not work as well with a white man.

[LibFarmer]

25. This OP is exaggerating what Biden actually said

All he wants is a few republicans to come on this side. He never said ALL republicans will change.

All it takes is 3 republicans in the senate for simple legislation and if we get to 55 or 56, 5 republicans to break the filibuster.

Distorting Biden's words and trying to hillarify him will not work this time around for BS and his 15%ers.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

26. How is he planning to get those Republicans on his side?

[LibFarmer]

27. lol

I'd answer but sorry .. I have to go feed a sea lion.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

30. So asking for details is too much to expect?

[Skya Rhen]

28. Joe certainly has a much more credible shot at doing this, than does any of the other candidates...

[50 Shades Of Blue]

31. That doesn't answer my question. What is he willing to sacrifice for unity with Republicans?

[BannonsLiver]

34. How would anyone know that right now?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

39. Well, Biden should. As a Democrat I want to know how he's planning to entice Republicans.

[BannonsLiver]

40. I don't see how anyone would know specifics until it came up.

What would you sacrifice for universal healthcare and a Green new deal? I might be willing to sacrifice something, but until I know specifically what that sacrifice is, I can’t answer the question.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

48. I'm not willing to sacrifice anything to Republicans after 4 years of them enabling Trump every way

they can. They've shown since Obama was President that they won't compromise with Democrats on a single thing. That means the one doing the compromising will be Biden if he gets elected. If he won't detail how much he's willing to give up to Republicans in exchange for nothing from them, they don't have much incentive to vote for him.

[BannonsLiver]

56. All true

But the reality is outside of securing a majority in the senate in the 2020 election there may be a moment where this comes up for the next Dem President, whoever that may be.

It would be great if all the conservatives died off and everyone in the Senate was progressive, but that’s just not going to happen I’m afraid.

Anyway, this is all getting the cart before the horse. We’ve got a long primary campaign ahead. There are no locks. Nothing has been decided.

[TCJ70]

29. Full quote:

"I just think there is a way, and the thing that will fundamentally change things is with Donald Trump out of the White House. Not a joke. You will see an epiphany occur among many of my Republican friends," Biden said during a campaign stop in New Hampshire. "It's already beginning in the House now ... If we can't change, we're in trouble. This nation cannot function without generating consensus. It can't do it."

Many does not equal a few. Many is literally defined as “a large number”.

Regardless, what kind of legislation would you expect to see that would garner Republican votes on climate change and healthcare?

Also...there’s that trend of bringing up Bernie from Biden supporters again. Not everyone who isn’t enamored by Biden is a Bernie supporter so relax.

[still_one]

38. You know what is interesting with your flamebait OP, not one Democratic candidate has said they

would not try and work with the republicans, and if asked that question, can name one Democratic candidate that wouldn't?

[TCJ70]

46. I have no doubt any of the candidates would work with them...

...if they showed themselves to be serious about the topic at hand. To expect some kind of “epiphany” that solely relies on Trump not being around is a very different expectation.

As for this OP being flame bait...I’m sorry it comes off that way to you. So far no Biden supporter has actually answered the question though:

What kind of legislation on climate change and healthcare do you expect that would garner Republican votes?

You could be the first to answer!

[still_one]

55. How would I know, I am not a republican, but no Democratic campaign in their right mind,

who wants to win the general election is going say they won't try to work with republicans, and that includes compromising

This country was built on compromise, and when that failed there was a Civil War, and if that should happen today, the country won't survive.

IMHO

[LibFarmer]

63. He was talking about republican voters

Not senators

Again, a disingenuous smear on Biden

[TCJ70]

68. He was? What makes you think that?

Obama made a similar prediction in 2012 regarding Republicans doing a 180. That didn’t exactly work out either...

”I believe that If we’re successful in this election, when we’re successful in this election, that the fever may break, because there’s a tradition in the Republican Party of more common sense than that. My hope, my expectation, is that after the election, now that it turns out that the goal of beating Obama doesn’t make much sense because I’m not running again, that we can start getting some cooperation again.”

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-faction/2019/5/14/18623829/joe-biden-republican-epiphany-theory-bipartisanship-president-candidate

[LibFarmer]

69. You're welcome to bash President Obama

we'll see how it helps your candidate. Bernie Sanders right?

[TCJ70]

70. I didn't realize quoting someone was bashing...

...so whatever. Also, no, there are many better candidates than Sanders this time around. Nice try on the “bring up Bernie” strategy, though.

Anyway, what makes you think Biden was talking about voters?

[Honeycombe8]

35. You are wise, Grasshopper.

Unity. With people who think it's great and funny to treat children inhumanely.

[pangaia]

37. Joe is wrong. If he doesn;t see that by now.....

[ancianita]

45. That's so far off I can't even think about such things. Why don't you go first and speculate?

[TCJ70]

47. Well...

...as I don’t buy the vision Biden’s trying to put out there, I’m more interested in what Biden supporters expect. What kind of legislation they, or any I suppose, thinks would garner Republican votes on climate change and healthcare.

[saidsimplesimon]

57. A bridge too far?

(I always have trouble with using too and to...and other challenges of the English language._)

Former VP Biden does not hold any claim to support for a priority on environmental legislation. Please let me know if my head is stuck in the sand dunes. I have no expectations of support from the Democratic front runner or the party politic on this issue. My views are my own, proud to claim them.

[Dawson Leery]

58. Blue dog/DLC leftovers from 1995.

[George II]

60. What's the relevance of that?

[Jarqui]

62. Obama is closer to being right

Change is up to the people.

As long as the Republicans are in a position to obstruct, they will.

The people need to put the Republicans in a place where they cannot obstruct.

Once the Republicans have been thoroughly trounced out of power, only then will we be more likely to see some bipartisanship creep back.

[TCJ70]

67. Exactly...

...Trump is a symptom. They just need to be overwhelmed at the ballot box at this point. Along with Congress getting it’s impeachment act together.

[TCJ70]

73. Well, it's been 36+ hours since I posted this...

...I had a post hidden and restored, I've been corrected on a claim I made...

...but so far no real answer to the question from any Biden supporters about what kind of policy outcomes they see coming out of a Biden presidency that sees Republicans coming around to how terrible they've been. A lot of deflection (how should I know?), a lot of nastiness and accusations, but not even an attempt at an answer.

The basic question is: what do you expect? If the answer is nothing then why are you supporting nothing?

When I look at the candidates and try to evaluate who I might vote for in my states primary there are two primary considerations for me:
1. Are the candidates policies leftward looking enough for me to see compromise ending further left than right?
2. Do I believe the candidate will push as hard as possible for the outcomes they claim to want to see policy-wise?

So far, Biden doesn't give me much confidence in this regard. That may change with debates and time and more exposure but at the moment he comes up short.

[emulatorloo]

79. Probably because most DU'ers aren't on board with how you characterize Biden?

I read your OP about Biden believing in rainbows and roses and it all seemed way off the mark to me.

I think most DU’ers, no matter what Primary candidate they support, have positive feeling about Biden and are happy he’s part of the conversation. So perhaps they are just as perplexed by your OP as I was.

I’m personally undecided still, my top 4 currently are Warren, Mayor Pete, Harris, Biden.

So as I say, nothing about your OP made sense to me. Seemed like you were talking about a strawman Biden. Like when Clint Eastwood talked to Empty Chair Obama.

Please don’t take offense at my post, because I really don’t mean to be offensive.

You asked why you aren’t getting replies so I am just giving my theory of why you aren’t getting replies or recommendations for this thread. Hope this helps.

ThAnks for all your posts, I love reading them.

[TCJ70]

84. No offense taken.

Last edited Mon May 20, 2019, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Prior to the "epiphany" statement I was actually pretty nonchalant about his candidacy. After that, though? Warning signs start going off in my head. This is the guy that was in the White House for 8 years of the (then) height of Republican obstruction and has observed three more since. He thinks 10+ years of behavior will turn around because someone's (Trump) gone after only being there for 3? Yikes.

I'm also in the undecided camp but at this point Warren, Harris, and Pete top my list...their placements change constantly at the moment with Warren having an advantage.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

[emulatorloo]

85. It is always great to talk with you.

Take care and I hope the day is good.

[LanternWaste]

86. What specifically leads you to make that allegation?

"He thinks 10+ years of behavior will turn around because someone's (Trump) gone..."
What specifically leads you to make that allegation? Is that another general inference of your own creation?


Sealions love the pretense of sincerity.

[TCJ70]

87. Here's the quote:

"I just think there is a way, and the thing that will fundamentally change things is with Donald Trump out of the White House. Not a joke. You will see an epiphany occur among many of my Republican friends,"

His own words lead me to believe that he believes that.

[TCJ70]

90. Thoughts on that quote?

Or do you still think I’m just making shit up?

[ucrdem]

80. Answer: re-enter Paris accord, join TPP, end stupid China cold war, finish getting out of Afghanista

etc etc. Rollback to 2016 and take it from there. Reverse the nosedive in other words.

[TCJ70]

83. Do those require Republican participation?

Or are those executive actions?

[ucrdem]

96. Laws are made by Congress so yes, he's going to need to their senate votes.

[TCJ70]

97. The only one of those that would require legislation MIGHT be rejoining the TPP...

...which isn't even a thing anymore. That's the only reason I ask. The rest can just be done with no involvement from Republicans.

[ucrdem]

98. In the real world there are 1,242 presidential appointees who need Senate approval

including 9 Justices of the Supreme Court:

What Kind of Jobs are These?

According to a Congressional Research Service report, these presidentially-appointed positions requiring Senate approval can be categorized as follows:

Secretaries of the 15 Cabinet agencies, deputy secretaries, undersecretaries and assistant secretaries, and general counsels of those agencies: Over 350 positions

Justices of the Supreme Court: 9 positions (Supreme Court justices serve for life subject to death, retirement, resignation or impeachment.)

Certain jobs in the independent, non-regulatory executive branch agencies, like NASA and the National Science Foundation: Over 120 positions

Director positions in the regulatory agencies, like the Environmental Protection Agency and the Federal Aviation Administration: Over 130 positions

U.S. Attorneys and U.S. Marshals: About 200 positions

Ambassadors to foreign nations: Over 150 positions

Presidential appointments to part-time positions, like the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System: Over 160 positions

https://www.thoughtco.com/presidentially-appointed-jobs-requiring-senate-approval-3322227

So if he wants to govern he's going to need their cooperation unless he manages to win a Senate majority. But that doesn't seem likely.

[BlueWI]

88. Not surprised on the lack of answers.

Electibility is the main claim for supporting Biden. It is extremely hard to tell which issues are his real passion based on his record, and the pro-banking system leanings are pretty easy to spot.

Being part of the Obama team is another career accomplishment that is not necessarily predictive of what happens next.

Too bad more isn't being said here and elsewhere about the legislative priorities of a Biden administration. The question of such priorities should be asked of and answered clearly by every viable candidate in this strong field.

[TCJ70]

89. That's pretty much how I feel about it. n/t

[SouthernProgressive]

76. A public option.

Upholding the clean water act.

A pathway to citizenship.

The list does on. Much of the good that can be done is secondary to congress approval.

[ucrdem]

81. Yes. There are many fires to put out and a lot of unfinished work left from last time.

It isn't hard to figure out what a Biden presidency will set out to accomplish. And probably succeed at for the most part.

[Honeycombe8]

77. As for Trump Loyalists & the Freedom Caucus having an epiphany"Mama Bear said to Papa Bear"nt

[themaguffin]

92. The comment from Joe wasn't about policy, it was about

sending a message to American voters.

[Demsrule86]

93. Not Medicare for all but a public option...not green new deal which

Is not really an outline with few details. but steps towards fighting climate change. 40 moderates took back control of congress...we will move forward but not with Medicare for all,not with the green new deal...we live in a center left country and need to win hearts as and minds.

[Turin_C3PO]

94. I think we'll get to a single payer system in the next 20 years.

But first, we need to implement the public option. Biden understands that incremental change is the only chance of getting improvements to our system through the Congress.

[Demsrule86]

95. I think we get to universal coverage but who knows how.