"Bernie Backers Blame DNC For 2020 Media Sabotage"

[Hortensis]

Some Sanders factionalists are once again blaming the weak little DNC for their candidate's poor showing.

Of course there is now far greater understanding among Democrats of Sanders's role in 2016, and above all the press are no longer willing or able to create a two-horse race starring Sanders as the noble steed coming from behind.

But this article is interesting for illuminating intransigent delusion in the beginning and then addressing his chances according to poll data. But still with a distinctly positive umbrella theme which I hope will please most of his supporters more than upset them.

Discussion on DU of what the DNC is and can and cannot do is probably in order.

“The mainstream media and the DNC are colluding against the American people. That’s what it feels like. It’s the same thing all over again,” said Massachusetts neuroscientist Laurie Cestnick, a Sanders supporter who founded Occupy DNC to protest the nomination of Mrs. Clinton at the party’s 2016 convention in Philadelphia. ...

“People are becoming more upset and becoming more firm behind Bernie due to mainstream media not covering a lot of his events and the strong push for Biden,” Ms. Cestnick said. “Is 2016 going to happen all over again? It is sure feeling like it. But I tell you, they are going to see a fight like they have never seen before.” ...

Byler concludes that the Democratic Party, at least the mainstream of it and likely majority or at least plurality, simply want to win in 2020 above anything else. The fear, among voters who may even have a positive view of Bernie, is that he simply wouldn’t be able to win in the general election against Donald Trump. ...

Can Bernie still win? Of course!

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/05/bernie-backers-blame-dnc-for-2020-media-sabotage/

[Farmer-Rick]

1. Nothing wrong with a good fight in the primary

Besides, I'm kind of tired of hearing how Biden is the front runner all the time on the corporate media. It makes me wonder why.

[MineralMan]

7. Well, the polling supports that view.

[Demsrule86]

26. The pundits were all in agreement on Biden until he showed strength in the polls...as usual

some don't like the numbers.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. Based on recent polling, I dont think there's any disputing that Biden is the current frontrunner.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cha]

80. Polls.. Reality..

Among those who say they're paying a lot of attention, Biden leads Sanders and Warren 42% - 8% - 15%.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287129464

**SC Poll** Sanders Falls To Fifth! Biden 42% Harris 10% Buttigieg 8% Warren 8% Sanders 7%

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287126914

[LonePirate]

2. Math is hard for some people, I guess.

[redstatebluegirl]

3. I could go the rest of my life and never hear Bernie's name again.

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. +1000

[trueblue2007]

68. You took the words right out of my mouth !!!

[Cha]

79. ..

[samnsara]

101. AMEN!

[Kahuna7]

165. Whew boy! nt

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. Unless Bernie joins the Democratic Party.....

It is difficult for me to see him as perhaps a possible contender for the Nomination.

[Amimnoch]

13. for me, even that bridge is fully burnt.

There is nothing he can ever do that will get me to support him. I hate Cheetolini and his deplorable army with a passion. I cannot state my opinion of BS in relation to him without breaking ToS.

[Dopers_Greed]

5. Why are they whining so much when a single primary/caucus vote hasn't even been cast?

Last edited Sat Jun 1, 2019, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

When you have surrogates like this, no wonder the candidacy is lagging.

[ehrnst]

142. +1000. (nt)

[MineralMan]

6. This is unsurprising. Senator Sanders is lagging in

primary polls, so someone has to be blamed - someone other than Bernie Sanders, himself.

As we move closer to actual caucuses and primaries, the story will become clearer and the rhetoric will become harsher.

The reality is that there are 24 candidates in the primary race. Many of them appeal to the same groups who supported Sanders in 2016, but who are now supporting other challengers. That's cutting into Bernie's poll results, and probably into his votes in the primaries and caucuses.

Meanwhile, a stable, well-known, and well-liked Democratic candidate is polling at double-digit higher numbers than anyone else. That's not surprising. People are signalling that they want a known quantity to run against Trump in 2020.

I predict that will not change and that Biden will continue to hold a commanding lead in the polls and will carry that lead right through the primaries.

[Hortensis]

18. Exactly.

Extremism cannot endure against truth and must have denial and delusion to support it. Sanders so obviously killed in 2016 any chance he could have had in 2019, but as you say. Failure to understand, much less accept, his totally predictable polling declines was inevitable.

On the plus side, he should fail pretty early and have very few delegates to act out any delusional, or cynically opportunistic as the case may be, outrage at the convention.

I also imagine Biden's lead will endure but decline substantially over time, into more typical range, as voters are exposed to other viable candidates. Some in the press will of course claim anything dropping below double digits means disaster, leading to lots of noisy worry and hope.

[Hortensis]

89. I was referring to certain of his most ardent followers --

ones who angrily and vociferously refused to vote Democrat in 2016 and many of whom are promising to refuse to again if he's not the nominee. None of our other candidates are good enough for them. Get it?

However you want to describe factions, regarding oneself as truly progressive and mainstream Democrats as little different from Republicans, and then spitefully insisting on voting for Trump or some third party after the primaries is an extreme act.

[Hortensis]

93. No. Seven, the polls and midterms say something very different.

Btw, so do studies of the ideological and legislative records of most Democrats in office. We're as left as we've ever been, more than in FDR's era certainly.

[lapucelle]

103. Welcome to DU!

Have a donut.

[GulfCoast66]

96. Have you even read our last party platform?

And that was not left enough for you?

Perhaps most Democratic voters are not quite as left as you?

The polls tend to reflect that view.

I can guarantee you one thing. Most democratic voter do not identify as Democratic Socialist. By a huge majority.

[GulfCoast66]

110. Are you working class?

I was working class for 10 years. Started at $6.10 an hour in the late 80’s. With a college degree. My day was using a shovel. Ever dug holes everyday for 5 years? I did.

Then I got a promotion. Using language I guess you like I moved from the proletariat to the petit-bourgeoisie. Now I am, I guess in the true Bourgeoisie class as I plan to retire on my capital.

But I manage hourly employees. Good union jobs which I support and have a good relationship with my union steward.

I guarantee you 60% of my employees voted for Trump. Guessing because politics is not talked at work.

Don’t tell me about the working class. I spend every day with them.

I support strong unions, mandatory and universal healthcare for employees and taxes high enough to cover those who are not able to work for any reason.

But cut the shit about the working class being leftist.

[GulfCoast66]

125. So what school are you attending?

Cause you damn sure aren’t working with the working class in this part of the country.

I’ve read my Marx. And For a short time in my youth found it explained everything. Like all good conspiracy theorys do. But then I joined the actual working class in America.

America, even today, has no resemblance to 1870 Germany. Even the social Social Democrats in Europe have learned that most of Marx’s original theory’s were claptrap. The true stuff he lifted from writers before him. He explained the situation. His solution was crazy.

I ask again. Are you working class.

[GulfCoast66]

133. And I ask again. Are you working class? Have you ever been?

Or is you knowledge of the ‘proletariat’ all gained by reading?

It’s not a hard question. I have laid out my history.

I was working class and work with them every day.

This discussion reminds me of sophomore college with a room full of people who have never once turned a hand at hard labor.

Once I actually joined the working class I realized how insulting this type of language is. Like working people need an avenging angle who understands their true situation.

Again. Do you earn your living by the sweat of your brow? Cause I have.

[emmaverybo]

135. 👏 In the sixties, college kids used to hawk the world socialist workers rag or whatever

Made me laugh because in those days everything was cheap enough that college kids even at a state college didn’t work.

I have never known any socialist workers in America. Worked restaurants, any kind of low salaried menial stuff and nary a socialist. Partner has worked in building trades thirty years. Never met
a socialist.

[emmaverybo]

139. I started learning about McCarthyism in junior high school. The American communist party

drew many artists and intellectuals who were concerned about racial inequity, poor people, workers rights. Richard Wright was a member.
Americans who fought in Lincoln’s Brigade in the Spanish civil war were members and returned to
discrimination. They were not allowed to enlist in the American military.
But eventually, Americans became disenchanted with communism as they discovered more about how it worked in Russia.

And eventually the communist party was not the only organization to address racism, poverty, housing, worker’s rights.

At the time, when it was a viable party here it was the one offering “the people” a voice and organization.

[Hortensis]

121. Seven, if it requires "outreach" to the citizenry,

instead of being BY the citizens for themselves, it's oppression.

What people want for themselves really matters. Not what ideologues pushing some "universal" one-size-fits-all solution intend to make them have. You can wish for "greatest good," but people almost never want what others think is the greatest good for them, only what they do.

That goes for you also. I feel that reading more fact-based investigative journalism pieces and analyses based on well designed studies, and fewer fact-free ideological screeds about struggling workers, would be good for you. Does that make you want to change your reading habits?

[Hortensis]

129. :) The phrase teach your grandmother to suck eggs

comes to mind. Which is funny because I'm sure my grandmother never would have, so that saying must be much older than her.

You're not the first generation to read that stuff, you know. But you really would do well to find out what people individually and in many different groups want and believe. Forget about what people as a whole believe -- there is never one answer to that, but rivers of blood have flowed many times in trying to reduce it to one.

Have a nice evening.

[Hortensis]

154. Well, this didn't take long. I finished with this

discussion, "Property Question."

[George II]

155. That reminds me, I have a hole in one of my socks. Darn!

[Hortensis]

156. Coincidence! I was just looking for my darning needles, too.

God, you know my much older sister darned socks? Obama was so incredibly right when he said if we could choose in all of human history when and where to be born it'd be right here, but I dodged that one only by a decade or two.

Away with thee, image of darning egg!

[Hortensis]

164. Fortunately won't be needed.

[Blue_true]

109. So look like the search party that went out looking for you found you.

Where were you, out in the Gulf fishing? Welcome back.

[GulfCoast66]

112. Huh?

[GulfCoast66]

116. Seriously, confused by your post.

I don’t think you are insulting me. Not that it would bother me. Care to expound?

[Blue_true]

124. I have not noticed you around for two week or more.

I could have just missed posts that you made.

[GulfCoast66]

127. Why thank you. And you are correct.

I celebrated a significant anniversary with the wife out of the country. And I never read the internet when on vacation.

Plus, I’ve learned to avoid DU when there is too much drama. It does not fit my nature. Discussion tend to be over the top. Like I avoided the shit-storm when Anenatti or whatever his name is was being pushed for president here. It’s a waste of mental energy.


You have a nice evening.

[Blue_true]

131. You made the right choice, by infinity. Hope you had a fun vacation. nt

[emmaverybo]

122. I am a Democrat, not right and not left. Left to the center of our more conservative Dems, but

not left. I do not like the word “leftist” or “leftie,” but “liberal” has great connotations and political
history.
Just one voice, but all polls show narrative of dramatic left-ward shift in country or the Democratic Party is not happening.
As to liberal policies, the Democratic Party has been, largely, for universal health care, education investment, safety net expansion, affordable housing, banking and environmental regulation,civil rights for all, for decades.

[GulfCoast66]

128. Nothing to add. You said it well.

[betsuni]

140. LOL

[ehrnst]

38. It's certainly a way to prepare mentally for one's candidate not winning

- blaming it on the "nefarious DNC," instead of more enthusiasm by Democrats for another candidate.

[MineralMan]

40. The Blame Game Requires Someone to Blame.

For Sanders supporters, that is traditionally the DNC.

Right now, the DNC isn't really doing much of anything about the primary race. It's just playing out all on its own.

[ehrnst]

60. But aren't they supposed to be grand puppetmasters in a Star Chamber?

[MineralMan]

63. Gee, I don't know. I hadn't heard that there was going to be a puppet show.

Are those going to be hand-puppets or marionettes? Will it be a Punch and Judy show? I love those!

[namahage]

71. Well, they did push forth changes to the requirements for participation in later debates.

I'm sure that, being the defenders of transparency and fairness that they claim to be, they would be vigorously decrying these rules as the DNC having their "thumb on the scale" and keeping Democrats from participating in the process, right?

[MineralMan]

72. I doubt very much that those changes will affect Senator Sanders.

He'll poll well enough and raise enough money to be in every debate. Those changes in the rules were done to thin out the candidate pool from the bottom up, not the top down.

The first debates are going to have at least 10 candidates present. What does that mean? Less time for each candidate to make a case. As we get closer to the actual primary elections (or caucuses), most of us will want candidates to be able to speak for longer periods so we can get a good picture of their positions on issues.

So, the idea is to thin down the list so fewer candidates will be on stage. It's not going to affect any who might actually have a chance at becoming the nominee, though. It will just weed out some who have little support to make the debates more useful to voters.

I'm sure Bernie will be on stage, aren't you?

[namahage]

74. Without a doubt.

And to be clear, I am not against the rule in principle. If anything, I would hope that our processes do more to eliminate clear "no-chancers" earlier in the process, especially candidates that have all but declared that they are not in it to win it (Mike Gravel comes to mind).

It does, though, speak to the idea that some DNC rules are fine--as long as they disadvantage other candidates.

[TheFarseer]

100. It's slightly annoying

That Biden is running away with it at the moment, but no one is saying how poorly Warren or Mayor Pete or Kamala Harris is doing. It’s only Bernie that is doing bad even though he is usually 2nd.

[mtnsnake]

8. Look at what the same author wrote about Joe Biden:

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/05/biden-remains-vulnerable-front-runner/

[Hortensis]

22. Yup. Definite bias, even depicting the socialist left as more "liberal,"

but I figure exposure to the people and factions drawn to candidates is important to understanding what the candidates are about, not just seeing the versions they target to mainstream voters.

And anti-Democratic elements in the MSM are very helpful in cleaning up and "normalizing" hostile factions being promoted to defeat the liberal Democratic Party. A very typical ploy, as in this, is to claim they are us. Of course. Dishonestly suggesting they're the party's strong liberals means the rest of us and our candidates must be less so, even conservative.

'I am Not Now, Nor Have I Ever Been, a Liberal Democrat' ~ Bernie Sanders

[BannonsLiver]

9. The paranoia, the victim complex and the tales of woe from 2016 are back.

Bernie doesn’t lose. He is always being cheated by someone trying to keep the people down.

[LibFarmer]

45. +1000 nt

[George II]

10. The media covered BOTH of his "kickoff" rallies, as they did for most of the other candidates....

....but after that the media has barely covered any of the subsequent rallies for any candidates. How many Biden events have been covered? Two, maybe three. Booker? One that I recall. Harris? Two. Buttigieg? Two or three. Warren? One that I know of.

With 20+ candidates each having four or five events a week, what do people expect?

This statement sounds almost trumpian:

"The mainstream media and the DNC are colluding against the American people"

HOW is the DNC "colluding against the American people"? That's pure BS.

[LibFarmer]

46. They are gearing up to vote third party

Scary

[lapucelle]

108. That would explain the Stein hires. N/T

[Blue_true]

113. Not scary.

Even if we throw out the people that wrote in "Bernie" in the 2016 General, around 35-40% of eligible voters did not vote. We need to focus on getting those people to vote, even getting only 10% of them gives us victory. If the hardcore Bernie want to vote third party like they did last time, let them, we should feel NO need to do any policy that they want and we are unsure about. I honestly think that we will make meaningful progress a lot faster that way.

[charlyvi]

59. But his followers feel ENTITLED to the same positive Bernie coverage he received in 2016.

When he faced a candidate the media despised, when Russia was pushing his candidacy against her, and when the choice was binary....him or her. He's now facing 22 other candidates, some of whom advance his policies much better and in a more detailed way than he does ...cough (Warren)...cough. He's in the same rut, but the road has completely changed. It's no longer two lanes, but 23. Also, BS tends to grate on folks after the first go round, IMO.

[charlyvi]

162. This thread isn't about my choice.

That’s why the thread title is “Bernie Backers Blame DNC For 2020 Media Sabotage”. If it was about my choice it would probably read something like “Tell us who your choice is and why”. See how that works.

[comradebillyboy]

11. It's never Bernie's fault...it's an establishment conspiracy...

Maybe Bernie should take responsibility for the shortcomings of his campaign and recognize some of his own shortcomings as well. But he won't.

[Blue_true]

115. Maybe is Senator Sanders answered a question on how he would implement his objectives

if he won the presidency, people may set up and listen. As is, we are seeing the same old blue sky proposals without details of how they will be done.

[Delmette2.0]

12. I'm really tired of the Bernie bashing.

The 2016 DNC accepted Sanders as a Democrat candidate. When the DNC firewall was breached the Sanders staff alerted Clinton's staff twice. Yet, when it was documented that it was really the Russians, there was no apology to Sanders.

Also there were so many other variables that contributed to Clinton's loss. Ongoing years of Clinton bashing by the RNC, possible election hacking in the three states Clinton took for granted, gerrymandering, the MSM that paid more attention to -45.

Kick me out of DU if you want but Bernie has good policy ideas and the DNC accepted some of them, so did many Democrats.

[George II]

15. When did this happen...

...."When the DNC firewall was breached the Sanders staff alerted Clinton's staff twice." ?

[Delmette2.0]

23. December 2015

I googled: 2016 Sanders accused of firewall hack.

You will get a lot of articles.

[George II]

35. The Russians had nothing to do with that, they didn't break into the DNC until the summer of 2016*..

The December 2015 hack was done by the Sanders campaign. They had four people spending a collective four hours forty five minuted downloading data from the database, much of it from early states.

The logs of this access were published on CNN after the DNC investigation.

*Although there are some reports of one computer broken into in September 2015 by the Russians.

[pandr32]

39. That's how I remember it, too.

[LibFarmer]

49. That is exactly how it happened

and Bernie fired a couple of people over it to appease the public after the damage was done.

[namahage]

70. Like returning a wallet after taking a couple bucks out first. n/t

[Blue_true]

118. A couple of bucks? More like returning the wallet with $5 of the $100 left. nt

[Blue_true]

117. Yeah, my mind asked me the same question when it read that claim.

My shoulders scruched-up so fast that they almost took my ears off.

[BannonsLiver]

16. Gerrymandering has nothing to do with the outcome of presidential elections

The article is chronicling the ongoing victimhood and paranoia by supporters of one of the candidates, it’s not attacking the candidate.

Also, your version of the hacking incident reads like fan fiction.

[Delmette2.0]

24. I googled: 2016 Sanders accused of firewall hack.

[BannonsLiver]

25. How wonderful.

The internet is an amazing place when one can master its tools.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. Every candidate's supporters complain about the media.

Just yesterday there was a thread whining about a Joy Reid tweet. The other day there was a thread complaining about non coverage of Women candidates.

[lapucelle]

106. Mr. Liver!

Maybe they redrew the state boundaries while no one was looking.

[Celerity]

143. Gerrymandering can affect POTUS elections

The states set their own rules on a number of issues, and if the state districts are gerrymandered to elect Rethug majorities, that can most definitely have an impact (voter surpression laws, etc etc).

The US House can be affected too, via the same gerrymandering process we could have far more Rethugs elected than should be, and they can cause all sorts of mischief.

Look at North Carolina.

https://splinternews.com/thomas-hofeller-was-a-pioneer-in-racial-gerrymandering-1828460517

As the Hill notes, Hofeller was the Republican National Committee’s redistricting chairman for nearly two decades. After leaving for the USDA during the Bush administration, he became a redistricting consultant for the national party, and after 2010, helped states where Republicans had newfound majorities cement those majorities. His biggest project was North Carolina.

That year, North Carolina Republicans fairly won both houses of the state legislature for the first time in over a century. The next year, they hired Hofeller to help them in redistricting, including the state’s 13 Congressional districts. “Redistricting is like an election in reverse. It’s a great event,” Hofeller once said. “Usually the voters get to pick the politicians. In redistricting, the politicians get to pick the voters.”

North Carolina is a deeply purple state; in five out of the last seven presidential elections, it’s been decided by five points or less. Before the 2010 midterms, the Democrats had eight members of Congress to the Republicans’ five; in that year’s wave, that margin was reduced to 7–6. The maps Hofeller helped the Republicans draw in 2011, on the other hand, were designed to give the GOP a permanent 10–3 advantage. In the next election in 2012, Republicans turned a 7–6 Democratic split into a 9–4 Republican one, despite the fact that Democrats received a majority of all ballots cast for House candidates in the state.

The way Hofeller and the North Carolina GOP did this was to cram the state’s Democratic voters into three Congressional districts, and many of the state’s black voters into two of those, the First and the 12th. Although Republicans have steadfastly denied directly using race as the basis for redistricting, their intent to rig elections in their favor was explicit. “I propose that we draw the maps to give a partisan advantage to 10 Republicans and three Democrats,” North Carolina House redistricting chairman David Lewis said at the time that the legislature redrew the districts, “because I do not believe it’s possible to draw a map with eleven Republicans and two Democrats.”

[BannonsLiver]

144. I'm specifically talking about the electoral college

You’re talking about something else. Apples and oranges.

[Celerity]

145. I only responded to the exact statement you posted, I cannot read minds

cheers

[BannonsLiver]

146. K

[kstewart33]

20. Bernie does have some good ideas.

However, he lacks the realistic details for feasibly getting his major ideas implemented. Bernie's a wonderfully talented advocate, but he's not one for actually doing the nitty gritty, exhausting work of actually realizing his ideals.

And he's not a Democrat. A huge sticking point for me, and likely many millions of Democrats.

But if he's the nominee, he's got my vote.

[Hortensis]

54. :) Agree with all but the first sentence. If only he

would use his powers for good instead of himself. He is a talented speaker.

But I do feel he should be honest and credit "his" ideas to their original sources, at least those who had fairly recently advocated for them in the Democratic Party. The actual lists would probably be far too long, of course. But at some point over the decades don't ideas just become public property?

[kstewart33]

83. Excellent point.

Over time, ideas do become public property. Few know the individuals who came up with most of the ideas that are widely accepted.

I may be trashed for this, but I've come to think that ideologues of the left can be as troubling as those of the right. They are so, so certain that their ideals are right that they become blinded to an objective assessment of what they believe. Bernie suffers from this to some extent which makes him often unwilling to compromise. Unfortunate given that compromise is the foundation of getting things done. IMHO, that shortcoming has resulted in a mediocre record for his 28 years in Congress.

[Hortensis]

84. I agree completely. We're all "left," but I know you mean farther

than the majority they despise, into the area where people start defining themselves with intense righteousness as greatly superior to those they see as in the "mainstream." A dysfunction that elevates contempt and disregard for the differing needs and choices of most, and refusal to compromise and agree, to great virtue. In their minds...

Not that any of us are perfect, but, parroting Barney Frank's bumper sticker about the right, "We're not perfect, but they're nuts." And at my age, I've come to recognize that, in mega-population terms, there really is such a thing as common wisdom.

Also the opposite, but that's not what we're talking about now.

[Hortensis]

90. :) "The struggling workers" have been consisistently

rejecting the idea of radical solutions in polls and in the midterms and calling for traditional liberal approaches, just big, ambitious ones.

Strangely enough, they tend to regard themselves as citizens, though, rather than "struggling workers" or "the masses." Same for the blue-dog districts, where the mood is generally moderately conservative-to-liberal depending on the issue.

As you say, the Democratic Party is a magnificent, highly diverse big tent truly representative of all Americans who don't despise that. But our party is strongly dominated by liberals and is the bastion of liberalism and progressive government in America. This is where it happens or it doesn't happen at all.

[Demsrule86]

30. I will never get over the 2016 general...and the lack of

support he gave Hillary ...my opinion.

[Delmette2.0]

32. I understand, we are all entitled to our opinions.

[LanternWaste]

148. Has anyone argued we're not entitled to our opinion?

If not, then I don't really thing you understand.

[Hortensis]

44. The Sanders campaign ILLICITLY accessed and copied

Clinton campaign vote data files. Despicable. When caught and reasonably punished, Sanders filed one of the phony lawsuits he used in 2015-2016 for the press to report, then later quietly dropped it for the press not to report, as he did all of them. This may have been the first of them. ??

This hacking and theft was done by Sanders' own IT employees, and I'd never heard that Russia had anything to do with it. Googling now only finds mention of Russia's support for Sanders to sabotage the Democrat campaigns.

Plus, none of the fact-check sites have updated their conclusions of Sanders campaign chicanery with new information about Russian involvement. Not known is whether famous micromanager Sanders ordered the hacking and theft; his employees said they committed this crime all on their own initiative.

So. Please show where you got this information, and, true or false, I will post it here as an example of the stuff being targeted to Sanders' loyalists.

And here's for you right now:

POLITIFACT: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/22/bernie-sanders/Sanders-take-Clinton-voter-data/
SNOPES: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bernie-sanders-campaign-data-breach-controversy/
538: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-berned-is-bernie-sanders-by-the-dnc-data-breach/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/documents-show-sanders-staffers-breached-clinton-voter-data
WAPO: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dnc-sanders-campaign-improperly-accessed-clinton-voter-data/2015/12/17/a2e2e14e-a522-11e5-b53d-972e2751f433_story.html?utm_term=.9b566af18e8f

[LibFarmer]

51. +1000 nt

[robbedvoter]

81. Thank you!

[StevieM]

50. There were zero states that Hillary took for granted. That story is pure fiction.

She had large campaign operations in PA, WI, and MI. She made a few campaign stops in Michigan, and 15 in Pennsylvania, which was the most of any state (in a tie with Ohio and Florida). She spent more money and had a larger organization in Wisconsin and Michigan than Barack Obama in 2012.

Hillary was in Florida at the end, with Al Gore, reminding people how close elections can be and that every vote will count. She was taking nothing for granted.

[lapucelle]

52. Where was/is it documented that the Russians were responsible for the December 2015 data breach?

Dec 18 2015, 12:59 pm ET
NBC News

Documents Show Sanders Staffers Breached Clinton Voter Data

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bernie-sanders-campaign-penalized-dnc-after-improperly-accessing-clinton-voter-n482341

[GulfCoast66]

97. And that had exactly 'What' to do with the gearing up to 2020?

Most of us have moved on from the disaster of 16 and are excited by the many good Democratic Party Members we have running. In the Democratic Party Primary.

Some haven’t.

[Gothmog]

14. There are a large number of real democrats who will not support sanders for good reasons

There are a large number of real democrats who have good memories and who will not forgive or forget

[walkingman]

19. That is what the primaries are for. If Bernie wins the nomination this it would be stupid not

vote for him in the general election. A sure path for a Trump victory.

[Demsrule86]

31. Everyone would vote for him in a general (me too)...but with his numbers, he is not likely to win.

[Hortensis]

55. There is 0 chance he could win the nomination.

In fact, I expect his ranking to continue its decline once the debates begin.

But, you do point out one big difference between regular Democrats and Sanders' spiteful fallaways, "the Sanders or nothing" types who called for abandoning the Democratic Party and CAUSING defeat. We WOULD vote for Sanders to defeat Trump.

[Gothmog]

64. I will support the Democratic nominee

I doubt that sanders will be the nominee. There are too many real democrats who have long memories. sanders was counting on a contested convention with him having the most delegates. Right now, sanders is not likely to get any delegates in a number of states including South Carolina due to the 15% rule

[Hortensis]

105. Yes to all. His campaign is stalling, and he hasn't

been able to regain traction so far even in VT and NH. Chuck Todd, who practically made a living promoting Sanders over Hillary in 2015-2016, mused on MTP Sunday, “There is part of this where you look at Sanders and you think, ‘Maybe it’s nothing he can do about it.’ It's tough to be an insurgent twice."

[thesquanderer]

17. Much of that is sourced from the right wing Washington Times

A lot of that article--including most of what you selected to quote in your post--is lifted directly from the right-wing Washington Times. (Check the link under the word "livid" right before the section you quoted.) It's like passing along a piece from Brietbart. Someone else posted it earlier and it was removed. There may be worthwhile points of discussion to be had on the topic, but best without the Washington Times' perspective.

[George II]

21. There are links from several media outlets, not just the Washington Times. The first....

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 12:18 PM - Edit history (1)

....is to a Washington Post article.

Other links in the article lead to their own website, The Hill, Politico, FiveThirtyEight.

[thesquanderer]

66. But more than half of what the OP here quoted was from the Washington Times. (nt)

[True Blue American]

37. I read some of the link it said clearly the writer was Republican.

[ehrnst]

57. And the author, Nate Ashworth, must be using a fake or abreviated name

There is no record of that name at all on Google in 2008 or 2012 - except one post on this blog in 2012, when he states that he was "covering the presidential elections."

Nate Ashworth is the Founder and Editor-In-Chief of Election Central and has been blogging politics for over a decade. Nate began covering politics on a personal blog in 2007 and then founded http://www.youdecide2008.com:80/" target="_blank">You Decide 2008 to cover the 2008 Presidential Election. That site eventually became Election Central to cover the 2012 Presidential Election and has continued to the 2016 cycle and well beyond. Nate has a professional background in IT with a passion for politics and writing. He can be found on twitter @PresElectNews.

There is no record of a "Nate Ashworth" who at all other than this blog. There are some "Nathan Ashworth" listings on linked in - but none are for a journalist. A search of the archived version of his old blog only uses first names and aliases....with no bios.

There is a 'data analyst' in Indianapolis, but again, no mention of a blog or writing.

Something that he has to keep hidden from his day job?

[Hortensis]

65. I didn't even find evaluation of Election Central on googling.

But again, even with the strong bias, the spotlight on some of Sanders' hostile supporters and how they think is worth noting. Up-thread we have a poster who soaked up some story about how Russia, not Sanders, hacked the Clinton campaign's database -- and we didn't even apologize for blaming him!

Too many people see the MSM coverage and still think Sanders is really just a variation on Democrat. The behaviors of the surrogates he pays to attack Democrats for him and of his more extreme supporters give a whole different picture. Certainly none of the other candidates attract people who promise to do whatever they can to hurt us if we don't vote for them. Again.

[EveHammond13]

28. not again

[mcar]

29. This again?

[Politicub]

33. He should stop looking in the mirror admiring his visage.

And listen to what people are saying about his campaign and the candidate himself.

Bernie bombed on Sunday talk shows. He is unable to give a cogent response about the importance of a woman's right to choose. If a democratic socialist is unable to address such an important topic, then there's a problem.

And he's blaming the DNC? If anything, the DNC has stayed out of the way except for commenting on percentages needed to get on the debate stage. The DNC had nothing to do with the meager-sized crowds at his Vermont events.

What does Bernie want? A DNC-led parade of floats festooned with garland that has BERNIE in bold letters?

Indeed, the campaign needs to stop talking at people, and listen for a while.

But will it? Or will it invest in more David Sirotas and others like him to criticize dems and democratic institutions on Twitter?

We'll see soon enough.

[sop]

34. I like Bernie's ideas on many issues and would vote for him if he wins the nomination

I don't like many of Bernie's supporters, though, particularly when they're already making noises like this so early in the process. It seems like 2016 redux to me.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Are you satisfied with several media pushing the "likeabiliy" factor regarding Elizabeth Warren?

I seem to remember several threads here about it.

The fact is, every candidate’s supporters complain about the press coverage.

[sop]

58. Everyone complains about media coverage, but I'd rather not have a repeat of 2016

When a significant number of Sanders' supporters openly proclaimed they hated Hillary and could never vote for her, claimed they'd been robbed by the DNC establishment and then voted for Trump or Stein. That wouldn't be very satisfactory.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. Remember 2008 and the "Pumas"? It happens every year.

Barack Obama won and managed to do it with more voter fall-out.

[sop]

75. PUMA was just a front for McCain-Palin in 2008

PUMA PAC's Executive Director, Darragh Murphy, who created the organization in June, 2008, had supported McCain in 2000, donating to his primary campaign against George W. Bush. Clinton openly stated she did not support PUMA and did not agree with its goals. Are you equating PUMA to these diehard Sanders' supporters?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

78. I'm not "equating" anything.

Twice as many 2008 Democratic primary voters fell out to the republicans than 2016 primary voters.

That’s a fact.

[sop]

85. Whataboutisms aside

The fact remains many Bernie supporters have demonstrated they're incapable of accepting political reality. By its very nature two-party politics requires compromise and pragmatism. A lot of people fear Sanders's people will make the same mistake again in 2020.

[sop]

92. I believe "compromise and pragmatism" are needed to move the progressive agenda forward

As far as I can tell just about every Democratic candidate running for president in 2020 believes in and supports your (and my) progressive ideals. I don't see anyone that will make "Trump look like a Sunday school teacher." That's just a strawman argument.

Decrying DNC fraud and media bias when one's chosen candidate loses in the primaries, then openly proclaiming one will not support the party's rightful nominee, is not pragmatic. Supporting the Democratic party nominee in the general election, even though one's preferred candidate lost, is the sort of compromise required in our two-party political system. Anything else is a losing strategy.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

99. Nonsense. It happens every campaign.

[sop]

120. You're right, it has happened before

It happened in 2000, when Nader's people told us "Gore will be the same as Bush," cast tens of thousands of votes for Ralph in Florida, then Gore lost the state by a few hundred votes. That bit of misguided nonsense set us on the path to endless wars, cost the lives of thousands of Americans, crashed the economy, kept us from addressing climate change and allowed Bush to confirm more conservative Supreme Court justices. And those are just the lowlights.

It happened in 2016, when too many of Bernie's followers proclaimed "Killary is just the lesser of two evils, I just can't vote for her," then stayed home, threw their votes away on Jill Stein or voted for Trump. Hillary lost the Electoral College vote in four important swing states by a few thousand votes, states that Obama won in '08 and '12, even though she got three million more votes than Trump. The rest, as they say, is history; there's no need to list all the damage done.

Politics isn't some parlour game. Not everything always goes our way. Much as we would like it to be, America is not Sweden; this is not a socialist country, we have a lot of very conservative and regressive voters who will never see it our way. Bernie's policies (as well as Warren's) are probably too progressive for the U.S. electorate, but I still support them. That doesn't mean if our candidates don't win we should "let it all burn down." But, then, I'm not really sure what you're suggesting.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

123. TL;DR . It happens every campaign

[LanternWaste]

149. That's certainly the excuse if not a reason.

But it looks good on the back of a t-shirt, so I get the bullet point style arguments.

[ehrnst]

141. What happens "every campaign?" (nt)

[ehrnst]

36. Any minute now Senator Sanders will issue a statement correcting them...

any minute now......

Any minute....

[SouthernProgressive]

41. I think Sanders should use some campaign funds to prepay for some services.

https://www.drlauriecestnick.com/online-services

“The mainstream media and the DNC are colluding against the American people. That’s what it feels like. It’s the same thing all over again,” said Massachusetts neuroscientist Laurie Cestnick, a Sanders supporter who founded Occupy DNC to protest the nomination of Mrs. Clinton at the party’s 2016 convention in Philadelphia.

Amazing how passionate some of these people are when it comes to defining themselves as victims of the "establishment."

She founded Occupy DNC.

“Our goal is to bring all Bernie Sanders supporters together at the DNC Convention to fight for the will of the people -- a Bernie Sanders’s nomination, NOT a fraudulent Hillary nomination,” the group says on its website.

Occupy DNC said on its Facebook page that it believes Clinton’s presumed nomination is one based on fraud, voter suppression and corruption.

On Monday, July 25, the group will assemble on the south apron of City Hall from 10:30 a.m. through 3 p.m. for a rally with Equality Coalition and other groups. Speakers will address topics such as the Summer Rose election fraud lawsuit, homelessness and health care. At 3 p.m., the rally will march down Broad Street to Franklin Delano Roosevelt Park, where Jill Stein, who is running for president under the Green Party, is expected to speak.

https://www.amny.com/news/elections/occupy-dnc-explained-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-protests-1.12078643

Every bit as good as a Trump supporter in 2016.

[ehrnst]

43. About that author, Nate Ashworth....

I can't seem to find out anything about him other than his bio on that that blog - which he founded.

Nate Ashworth is the Founder and Editor-In-Chief of Election Central and has been blogging politics for over a decade. Nate began covering politics on a personal blog in 2007 and then founded http://www.youdecide2008.com:80/" target="_blank">You Decide 2008 to cover the 2008 Presidential Election. That site eventually became Election Central to cover the 2012 Presidential Election and has continued to the 2016 cycle and well beyond. Nate has a professional background in IT with a passion for politics and writing. He can be found on twitter @PresElectNews.

There is no record of a "Nate Ashworth" who at all other than this blog. There are some "Nathan Ashworth" listings on linked in - but none are for a journalist. A search of the archived version of his old blog only uses first names and aliases....with no bios.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081106201714/http://www.youdecide2008.com:80/

There is a 'data analyst' in Indianapolis, but again, no mention of a blog or writing.

Things that make you go hmmm.

If it's a nom de plume, what is he hiding from?

[Me.]

48. What Goes Around

Has finally come around.

[betsuni]

53. "Some Bernie backers are livid, and they claim there is some type of sabotage afoot."

Of course. A conspiracy theory for every pot!

[ehrnst]

61. Because of course they do. (nt)

[honest.abe]

56. "a fight like they have never seen before"

Here we go again.

[George II]

67. Is the candidate who boasts that he was the first to sign the "Unity Pledge"....

....going to do something about this?

[NewDayOranges]

69. Do Bernie backers & Russian trolls make the same

Complaints? Do they?

After the 2016 Dem convention Bernie backers complained that the DNC trashed hundreds of boxes of primary ballots in several states that were marked for Bernie...

When I would point out that it was the state and not the DNC that collected and counted the ballots and the DNC never touched the ballots, they never seemed to know what I was talking about...

I dubbed these posters as Russian trolls... Not on this forum but on several other forums that I belonged to.

[Hortensis]

153. Probably both. Russia's big tactic was augmenting

negative messages from the Sanders campaign, covering the nation with them like a blizzard, and of course all who showed interest in him were specially targeted for manipulation.

Tragically many of the people Sanders lied to, and into whose heads Russia repounded those messages again and again, are seemingly permanently enraged by what they allowed themselves to believe the DNC to be, and the Democratic Party. Continuing to be controlled by satisfying resentment from these victimhood lies is apparently far more appealing than realizing they were suckered into helping elect Trump and are basically wrong about practically everything.

[Gothmog]

76. Democrats worry Bernie Sanders won't be a team player if he loses nomination

Link to tweet

The Democrats worry that Sanders won’t be a team player if he loses, and that he and his supporters will be particularly problematic if Biden or another rival seen as out of step with progressives comes out on top.

“I think Bernie will do everything in his power to elevate himself by pushing others down,” said one aide to a Democratic senator.

A senior aide to a second Democratic senator said concerns about Sanders dividing the party next year are widely held, even though everyone in the Senate Democratic Conference is holding their tongue for fear of making things even worse.

Some Democrats have blamed Sanders in part for that outcome, arguing he stayed in the primary against Clinton too long and that he did not do enough to bring his supporters on board in November.

[Cha]

82. +Millions!

Thanks, Goth

[Hortensis]

114. :) Of course he won't be, and they're not "worried"

he won't, just spreading the idea. He is what he is.

[mcar]

130. I worry about that

[kimbutgar]

104. Maybe voters are just not into him anymore

They moved on. There are so many great candidates running on the Democratic side in 2020. Bernie is Bernie nothing new.

[ucrdem]

107. Musical note to Senator Sanders: you gotta know when to fold 'em.

[Recursion]

138. And the new Dolchstosslegende begins

Sigh.

[Eliot Rosewater]

151. Dont say I didnt warn you everyday for a long time, and I am done.

We may very well be done because of this...told you so

[Renew Deal]

157. Cestnick proves that being educated doesn't make one smart

[Hortensis]

158. And that personality can grind intelligence into dust.

[yardwork]

163. Oh not this shit again.

Edited to clarify that I'm talking about the sore loser syndrome, not this OP,