I'm glad Biden is standing up for what he believes -- it shows strength

[Vidal]

His positions on abortion haven't always been popular but they always reflect his true beliefs.

Biden, for all his faults, has always been very transparent. We know where we stand with him, for better or for worse.

His posiitons on LGBTQ and the Green New Deal show he is a true progressive.

But growing up a strict Catholic has always made his abortion opinions very complex and difficult.

I do not agree with him but I respect his honesty.

[mtnsnake]

1. Standing up for what is wrong shows strength? LOL

[Perseus]

21. I have replied to you because I thought the same exact thing

Biden may have his convictions, but that won't sway me to vote for him, on the contrary, I am staying away from him if his principles and beliefs do not line up with mine.

He can stand strong for his beliefs, but in my book that is not strength, it just shows that at least on that one topic he is on the wrong side.

[DownriverDem]

40. I doubt

if any candidate can have all the beliefs I have. Besides, I'm looking for someone to beat trump. If a Dem doesn't win in November 2020, it won't matter what I believe.

[bullwinkle428]

29. EXACTLY! Chump cultists use this logic every single day.

[treestar]

72. It's not wrong to him

Or to a lot of people. People disagree with you. That is life in the USA.

[katmondoo]

2. I am sorry Joe but times have changed, you will not be seen as honorable but as another draconian

politician using women's lives to puff up your status.

[LakeArenal]

78. By you. Not by Biden supporters.

His lead keeps a steady increase.

Joe Biden remains the most qualified and well liked both nationally and globally.

[samnsara]

88. wow

[BannonsLiver]

93. By you

Most people will look at his support for Roe and Planned Parenthood and move on. Our DU bubble as enjoyable as it is, is not the whole picture here.

[madaboutharry]

3. You can't claim to be pro choice while denying

access to abortion to those who can't afford it. The women that the Hyde Amendment impacts most are women of color and the poor. It creates a class system of access.

Biden may be personally conflicted. But he is wrong. Any person who seeks to be the President of The United States must be able to put their personal beliefs on choice aside and serve all women by guaranteeing every woman her right under The Constitution. Denying funds for this particular medical procedure denies millions of women their Constitutional right.

Biden needs to show the courage to make this issue bigger than himself.

I think that Joe Biden is a fine man. I think he would make a great president. But I am sure that I am not alone in finding his position on the Hyde Amendment very alienating.

[DownriverDem]

43. It was the tone of the times.

I vote for the person now, not what was going on years ago. If that's what folks are going to do, we will be eating our own.

[madaboutharry]

53. On June 5, 2019 Biden reasserted his commitment to the Hyde Amendment.

That. Was. Yesterday.

[AlexSFCA]

57. didnt know that. He put his religious beliefs above public service

That’s disturbing. I am afraid that if he wins the nomination and beats trump, he won’t stand up to GOP and will try to get back to ‘normal’ and be ‘bipartisan’ above all. That will be a huge win for GOP establishment as he would essentially save the party’s long term viability.

[treestar]

73. He's not guilty of putting his religious beliefs above public service

He definitely stood aside from them on abortion. But public funding is a different issue. And it is not going to happen if Dotard wins again. Being pro-choice is enough at this point in history.

[emmaverybo]

98. You probably also do not know Catholic church leaders denounced Biden for his

stance on abortion and gay rights. He has said he does not feel it right to impose his personal beliefs upon others of other beliefs.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/2-catholic-bishops-biden-not-allowed-speak-catholic-schools-must-not

[DallasNE]

71. Biden Needs To Put Down The Bible

When it comes to public policy. We are a secular nation, after all.

[samnsara]

126. i am pretty sure he has already

[shanny]

4. Shows he's out of step too

at a time when the issue is white hot.

I said for months before he got in that I didn't think he should run because of things like this,. He is out of step with the energy in the party, which is coming from women, minorities, and younger adults. They are our future, Biden is our past.

[Perseus]

23. "They are our future, Biden is our past."

This has to be the quote of the day.

One more thing, ever wonder why repubs are pushing for Biden?

[shanny]

26. Thank you.

And I ask the same question every time Forbes, or Peggy Noonan, or some other conservative hack touts him as the best candidate.

[DownriverDem]

44. And Biden represents

normalcy. Folks want normalcy. Forget the past crap. Focus on who can beat trump.

[Vidal]

46. Many Republicans want to beat Trump

and that's why they are pushing for Biden.

[LakeArenal]

80. That "quote of the day" is an old chestnut

We’ve heard that refrain for a year now.
We all know why some GOP like Biden. They want him to win. Because they like him. Like the majority of the nation.

[Iris]

5. Nope. This is probably a deal breaker for me.

Pregnant women are a vulnerable population and we are too close to having some state governments interfering with their medical care and decisions.

[samnsara]

129. this one issue voting is what drives the trumpers to the polls too....

..is dangerous and divisive. I had a friend not vote for Obama because his stance on wolves werent strong enough. I had another friend say she wouldnt vote for Kerry because she didnt like his wife.

One person cant be all things to everyone all the time...but ONE vote can decide the contest. Is our Democracy so strong that it can survive a thousand cuts? I feel everyone who doesnt vote for/support the Dem nom..is inflicting one of those cuts. Thats MY democracy youre messing with.

[Iris]

136. If you think a stance on wolves and a woman's right to make her own decisions about her health and

life, then maybe you are part of the problem.

[rgbecker]

6. So his position is...?

Women should be able to choose abortion as long as it is not "Late term" and if she can't afford it, fuck her, no help from the US because healthcare should be a private for profit enterprise for only the well off.

[JI7]

7. none of this has to do with him being catholic and it's the shittiest excuse

he shouldn't be making policy decisions based on religion

[Vidal]

8. Funny how people think they are always right

and others are always wrong if they hold different views.

[JI7]

11. there is nothing right about making policy based on religious beliefs

[SidDithers]

67. Fucking nailed it...

Sid

[Nay]

84. THANK YOU.

[NRaleighLiberal]

115. This exactly

[USALiberal]

20. Just like you do? Nt

[MrsCoffee]

22. Fuck that noise.

Different views about my rights over my body?!?

Fuck. That. Noise.

Any candidate that doesn’t support choice 100% doesn’t stand a chance. We didn’t fight all these years to be stabbed in the back by one of our own.

[Skya Rhen]

9. I agree with you - he has his own convictions, which is his right to have.

[Perseus]

27. If you believe that you should praise the buffon and Stephen Miller for seperating families

and caging children, I mean...the stand strong by their beliefs.

You are either right or wrong, regardless of how "strong" to stand by your beliefs, trying to make something good about Biden standing strong by, what most humans believe to be wrong, doesn't make it right.

You may love the candidate, but you have to make a decision on those ideals that affect so many people in a very negative way.

I recommend people read a book titled "Freakonomics" where they explain in a very good way why repubs waste so much time with abortion issues, they don't care about human life, otherwise they would not be so eager to go to wars, they would not come up with ideas to separate families, cage children, they want low economic families to not abort because those kids are the ones who fill up most of the military positions, those are the ones the repubs are eager to send to war and get killed. "Life is precious"? Bullshit! Its precious until they can cook up a war and they call it "defending your country", from whom? Who is attacking us in the homeland?

[shanny]

28. He does.

So do we.

[yardwork]

112. If you think the Violence Against Women Act was wrong

I don't know what to say. Are you actually familiar with Biden's record?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

10. One can claim any contravening position shows strength...not so sure, but, HONESTY yes, that's true.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Voltaire2]

12. It is disqualifyingly wrong, but indeed he is welcome to continue to blow up his candidacy.

If that is the beach he wants to die on, fine.

[zipplewrath]

13. Current or past?

His posiitons on LGBTQ and the Green New Deal show he is a true progressive.

That's sorta the question with politicians like Biden. Do I pay attention to his past positions or his current positions? Because they apparently are constantly "evolving". The judgement one must make is whether they will "evolve" in a progressive direction, or will they "stand up for their convictions" in the future.

[Maggiemayhem]

58. His climate policy based on Arch Coal and Shell?

LOL LOL LOL LOL

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. "Believing in Hyde" is a garbage value.

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. Being steadfastly wrong is not right.

[dalton99a]

25. +1

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. Did you feel that way about Dubya with Iraq? He held his convictions.

This is a very conservative view. Jesse Helms held to his convictions too.

Steadfastly wrong is not honorable.

[jberryhill]

17. It's time that someone stood up to poor women and said "no!"

[Farmer-Rick]

18. Strong? It's a popular position he holds. It is popular among RepubliCONS and

the religiously insane. It is popular among forced birth proponents. It is popular among the rich capitalist who run our government. It is a way to stop abortions without having to say you are stopping abortions and is very popular among Trump worshipers and the supreme court. It is popular among people who want to restrict other people's freedoms.

It was popular among politicians up until Hillary ran for president and made it clear what the Hyde Amendment really did to women. At least for me, she opened my eyes to what it did.

I think, if he wants liberal women and their family members to vote for him, he should change his mind.

[MrsCoffee]

19. Bullshit.

I’ve been pro Biden all the way to this point. But this is a deal breaker.

WOMEN’S RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS.

This is not negotiable.

[Laffy Kat]

81. This. nt

[dalton99a]

24. If he's advocating the middle ground in the primary, will he move to the RIGHT in the general?

[shanny]

30. Very good, and disturbing, point. nt

[Locrian]

31. Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, H.R. 3355

How can he not admit that this was a terrible bill?
Even Bill Clinton admitted it was a horrible thing

[Perseus]

32. After reading all the posts, if the original post was meant to sway people towards Biden?

It has produced the opposite effect.

I for one was hoping Biden would not run, and now I am convinced that I don't want Biden to run, with him it will definitely be the same as always, he belongs to the old politicians club, he cozies up to McConnell and other repubs, and as of late with all the changes in his "convictions" shows more lack of strength than what the original post claims to be "strength".

We need progressive people to run and be elected, the new Congress with people like AOC should have shown us all that we need new ideas, new energy, and a very progressive agenda to be able to make an U-Turn on all the crap this administration has brought.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

33. Fuck that. If Sanders had that position, he'd be crucified here.

Biden deserves the same for a shitty position on a shitty amendment.

[marylandblue]

34. That's fine, but then he lives and dies by his own policies, abilities, and character

Same as with other candidates. We don't have to accept him because he is "electable." This will make him unacceptable to some voters. They will not vote for him in the primary and could stay home in the general.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. "I'm glad Biden stands up for a policy that hurts poor people and, disproportionately, BIPOC. It

really shows strength to hold that belief -- especially as someone who is religious and follows a tradition that, while troubled, has a strong social justice component. People will definitely appreciate knowing where they stand with him."

[Turin_C3PO]

36. No.

He needs to change his position on this.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

45. And that will make it all better?

[Turin_C3PO]

50. Yes, it would.

[NRaleighLiberal]

37. by the way - UNREC.

[Tarc]

38. His position on the Hyde Amendment has shifted Biden to a "hold your nose and vote for him"

candidate, for me.

[LakeArenal]

82. Funny. That's the way I feel about Harris.

[Tarc]

107. I wish you luck with your anti-choice candidate

[LakeArenal]

131. I wish you luck with your political opportunist.

[demmiblue]

132. Pray tell, why do you think Senator Harris is a political opportunist? n/t

[LakeArenal]

134. This is my last statement to you on this old thread.

Al Franken.

[Honeycombe8]

39. He recently said he's against marijuana legalization because it's "a gateway drug."

He really said that. In 2019. I guess he really believes that, since he said he believes that. That's an old argument that most people, and science, know is false. I don't think that shows strength. I think it shows he's stuck in a prior decade.

[pazzyanne]

41. My take on this thread is full speed ahead and damn the torpedos seems to be the theme.

Vitriol against Democrats by Democrats always makes me

[SMC22307]

119. How is pointing out policy positions "vitriol"? (n/t)

[pazzyanne]

121. The use of anger in any "discussion" creates problems, does not solve them.

Pointing out policy positions is fine. Verbiage that makes one sick to their stomachs is not!

[The Blue Flower]

42. My thanks to all of you commenters

Until he renounces the Hyde rule, it's a deal breaker for me. There's no excuse for denying a woman's right to the care she needs.

[Nay]

89. That plus the "marijuana is a gateway drug" belief are deal breakers for me, too. nt

[sop]

47. Convictions can also be hypocritical

Since the Hyde Amendment prohibits federal money being spent on abortions, because the religious right doesn't want their tax dollars paying for "killing innocent babies," then we should pass an amendment that prohibits federal tax dollars being spent on military hardware that also kills "innocent babies" in war zones throughout the world.

[LibFarmer]

48. He is also smart

A lot of Obama-->Trump Democrats were scared of the leftward lurch of the party and he is going to win them over.

[Nay]

90. "Scared of the leftward lurch"?? Really? In what universe? A simple overview of what

Republican RICHARD NIXON proposed and did will show anyone that that reviled president was more leftist than the mainstream Democrats we are saddled with now.

[LibFarmer]

92. Saddled with?

Biden is running 15-25% ahead of your preferred candidate.

Proof is in the pudding as they say. The leftword lurch has no traction.

[LibFarmer]

49. He is not doing it because of religious convictions

He is doing it because it is smart politics.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

51. Not sure which one is worse.

I’m sure women love hearing politicians bargain away their rights based on political cravenness and not actual convictions. As a gay man I knew how it felt when politicians I was certain knew better were willing to bargain away my rights while claiming “god is in the mix”

[LibFarmer]

52. Biden is running for POTUS

He is not running to be a prophet or god.

Politics involves appealing to a broad set of voters so they will vote for you.

Obama got women's votes despite his support for the Hyde amendment.

Hyde amendment affected women represent a small minority of women seeking abortion.

The question remains..... Would women make this small concession in order to protect Roe's sweeping liberties vis a vis a woman's right to choose ... or will they go for 'all or nothing' and risk electing the orange clown?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

54. "Would women make this small concession in order to protect Roe's sweeping liberties vis a vis a

woman's right to choose ... or will they go for 'all or nothing' and risk electing the orange clown?"

I feel like it's early in the primary season to be like "Don't forget, we have to keep this 'small concession' that sacrifices 20 percent of those who can get pregnant to win the next election, and when we do win the next election, we'll ask you to make the concession all over again to win the next one!!1!!" but here we are.

[treestar]

75. Right to public funding of abortions?

Where is that to be found?

[still_one]

56. Respectfully Libfarmer, it isn't good politics. Telling poor women on Medicaid who have a severe

birth defect in their fetus, that Medicaid won’t cover an abortion is not only bad politics, it’s cruel

[LibFarmer]

68. I agree with you

However, how many such cases are there?

Republicans makea big deal about late-term abortions -- but there are fewer than 200 cases a year where a late term abortion is practiced and they make it sound like it is a wide-spread problem.

Let's not do the same thing with "poor women with a fetus that has a severe birth defect" -- there are unlikely to be more than a few dozen cases.

[still_one]

83. More than just birth defects, but I don't want debate various reasons, just saying there are other

significant reasons. I also suspect you do not agree with Joe on this, so I don’t think debating the political merits or demerits will achieve much

I do wish though that Joe would back away from this before the first debate, because I suspect if he doesn’t the debate preparers are preparing a full attack on him with this in front of million of viewers, and I believe it would serve him to defuse it as quickly as possible

We will see what happens within a few weeks, but this was an unnecessary fight Joe did not need

[LibFarmer]

94. Joe will probably have a presser

outlining his strong support for a woman's right to choose and the danger posed by Republicans to Roe v Wade.

Things will clarify after that. In the meantime, it is noting but mental self-gratification for the anti-Biden forces.

[still_one]

100. I hope so

[WhiskeyGrinder]

86. "However, how many such cases are there?"

People die because of Hyde. What's your cutoff?

[LibFarmer]

95. Show me statistics of deaths caused by Hyde. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

96. Here's the deal.

The statistics of who dies because of Hyde are difficult to come by for several reasons. One of them is that because Hyde affects marginalized people -- those who are poor, BIPOC, incarcerated -- and because deaths from illegal and/or unsupervised abortions aren't readily available. We do know about Rosie Jimenez, who is considered the first death caused by Hyde, in 1977. Here is her story:

https://rewire.news/article/2017/10/03/rosie-remembering-hyde-amendments-first-victim/

Rosie Jiménez was a Chicana living in McAllen, Texas. The daughter of migrant farmworkers, she was a single mother raising her 5-year-old daughter while studying to become a teacher. She became pregnant after Roe v. Wade legalized abortion, but unfortunately it was also after the U.S. Congress had first passed the Hyde Amendment, banning Medicaid from covering abortion.

Because Medicaid wouldn’t cover her procedure at a safe and legal clinic (the Hyde Amendment had gone into effect mere months before) Rosie turned to an unsafe abortion that claimed her life. She had her entire future ahead of her, including raising her daughter to be healthy, happy, and supported, and pursuing her career. In fact, she was so committed to a better future for herself and her daughter that she died with a $700 scholarship check in her purse.

Hyde applies to more than 7 million people. Hyde forces one in four poor people who want an abortion to carry to term. People who want an abortion and can't get one are more likely to slip into poverty. Hyde is a garbage policy and needs to go.

[LibFarmer]

97. Anecdotal

A statement was made that there are thousands of deaths caused by Hyde.

I need statistics - not excuses for why there aren't any.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

99. .

A statement was made that there are thousands of deaths caused by Hyde.

Wasn't from me.

I need statistics - not excuses for why there aren't any.

Sorry, Mr. Jameson!

[treestar]

76. Is that actually true?

Or is there an exception for the situation you describe?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

85. The exceptions are rape, incest and life of the pregnant person.

Not health of the pregnant person. Not mental health of the pregnant person. Not diagnosis or viability of the fetus. That's what Hyde is.

[still_one]

91. Don't know, but the exclusions they state are rape, incest, and life of the mother

They don’t include bith defects, transmission of a drug addicted mother to the fetus, HIV, Hep C or other possible transmissions I believe, nor the bottom line that a woman may have an unwanted pregnancy, not a result from what would be considered a rape

Regardless, the fact is it’s an anti-poor women law, crafted by men, and no matter how that plays in the GE, I don’t think it will play well in the Democratic primaries, but we will see in the course of time

[treestar]

74. +1

Why would he put aside religious conviction to be pro-choice, but not on the question of public funding? And at any rate, that's not even going to come up. We are now a long way from public funding.

[still_one]

55. Discrimination against poor women is not a strength. Admitting and recognizing you are wrong about

something is a sign of strength

There is no defense for supporting the Hyde Amendment today

[amuse bouche]

59. " standing up for what he believes"

What these guys fail to understand is, it is not about them. Don't like abortion? Don't get one

Stay out of Women's wombs. Mind your own damn business Joe

[DallasNE]

103. Joe, We Are A Secular Nation

You do not impose your religious views on the American people. You are in the wrong line of work if you feel you can or should.

[Indygram]

60. Yeah, it's really strong for a man to stand up against the uteri of American women and girls

Why shouldn't women sacrifice their rights over their bodies, it's not like he supports forced circumcision of men or anything that has a permanent impact on anyone of importance or anything.

Jesus Christ...male politicians need to leave my uterus, ovaries, vagina and womb the hell alone. My body, my choice. If a candidate cannot or will not respect that at a time when those rights are under attack they can screw off.

[Squinch]

61. I stopped posting here when I began to see the "Biden can touch any woman any way he wants!" posts

and the posts (many of them) that said "'Believe Women' is ridiculous, and I'm not going to do it any more!!!" and the posts that trashed a woman who gave a very measured and reasoned explanation of the fact that she didn't really want Joe Biden sniffing her hair before she gave a major speech (though she would still vote for him.)

Stopped by once or twice since then, and saw all the, "Joe made a joke about touching women, wasn't that cute?" I found them disgusting.

Stopped in today and saw this little oasis of sanity. Seems there IS a line that even Joe Biden is not allowed to cross.

I'll vote for him if he's our candidate, but the "Joe can do no wrong, and we'll twist ourselves in knots and abandon all our principles in order to support him, and turn on anyone who won't do the same!" position is dangerous and stupid.

Women's rights are human rights. Joe needs to get his head out of his ass. And so does DU.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

62. +1.

I agree with every word of your post.

[SidDithers]

63. I don't care if he grew up a strict Catholic...

I'm tired of bronze-age religious opinions affecting 21st century policy.

If he's not fully supportive of women's reproductive rights, he's unqualified to be the Democratic nominee.

Sid

[onetexan]

64. I was raised catholic but i think the abortion decision should be subjective, as Biden

Had made clear when he ran with Obama leading up to 2008. I'm fine w his stance.

[sop]

79. I was raised a Catholic, received a couple of degrees from a Jesuit university,

so I've been exposed to all the theological and philosophical arguments opposing abortion and birth control. Those who believe life begins at conception, and abortion is the killing of the unborn, are entitled to their views, and these people should not have abortions.

Many more enlightened Catholics, no matter how strongly they might personally feel about abortion, also believe the State has absolutely no right to dictate what a woman does when faced with that decision. It's a woman's absolute right to choose what's best for her. Giving the State the right to make that choice is worse than abortion, and the government should stay out of it

[onetexan]

106. Glad to know another Jesuit school alumnus is here

I agree with you, as i happen to now be someone who identifies as spiritual but dont have alot of faith in organized religion. The way i see it, there is always one thing or another with all of the candidates that we have to grapple with, whether its regarding abortion, environment, healthcare, etc.
Im ok with Biden's stance, since i see him as tried and true with the wisdom and experience of governing, and restoring our country back to normal, and the only one who instills fear into this butthead desecrating the WH. I know others struggle with it and i respect that. My choice is Biden for 2020.

[obamanut2012]

65. No it doesn't

It is 2019 -- he needs to NOT support the Hyde Amendment.

[CanonRay]

66. I disagree...I think it was just political calculus

He's lose face changing his mind.

[BluesRunTheGame]

69. I'm glad Mike Pence (the "decent guy") stands up for his beliefs too.

Like both Uncle Joe and Decent Guy Mike, I was raised Catholic.

Unlike either of them I got away from that shit as fast as I could.

I think that we can do a lot better than Biden.

[dlk]

70. The Hyde Amendments Discriminates Against Poor Women, Women of Color, and Young Women and Girls

I don't see how standing up for and supporting discrimination is a good thing, ever. Biden is entitled to his religious beliefs. However, why is he entitled to enforce his beliefs on women who believe differently and change their lives forever? I see that as patriarchy at its worst.

[Politicub]

77. If supporters of the Hyde amendment showed that they are concerned about the Hyde

amendment, it would go a long way in helping people accept Biden's position.

But, that's not what is happening. We are being told that our opinion does not matter because reasons.

I don't think it will help or hurt Biden politically either way, honestly. Repealing Hyde is a moral position that I want to see him take.

Consistency be damned. Pfft. Strength?

You can be religious and still not interject your religious beliefs into how you will govern. That's strength.

[samnsara]

87. its OK for a persons personal belief to be different than their policy..it shows they are for..

..America first. Joe, being Catholic, im sure has strong personal beliefs and opinions about life and death..however its the strength of a great leader to put his/her own belief after the good of the country. Anyone who thinks biden wont do that doesnt know him and should stfu.

[loyalsister]

101. I don't respect his position

but I want to hear it all before the MO primary next March. The only time a man is entitled to have an opinion about abortion is when a woman wants to include him in her decision-making or seeks his opinion.

[Vidal]

102. Biden agrees with you

Nothing you said is contrary to Biden's position.

[loyalsister]

104. And yet Hyde defines which women should and should not have ready access to abortion

Taking a position that limits abortion access is most definitely contrary to a his claim that he believes whether or not to have an abortion is a decision to be made only by women.
Now is not the time for compromises or catering to people who see a fetus as worthy of constitutional protection at the expense of the bodily autonomy of a woman carrying it.
The damage coming out of Alabama and Missouri is real, and the Hyde amendment and partial birth abortion ban were big steps that brought us to this point. He has carried too much water for the antiabortion agenda for me to believe he is sincere when he says he supports abortion rights.

[Celerity]

105. This is quite possibly the worst argument in support of Biden I have even seen on here.

[Celerity]

116. roflmaooooooo BAZINGA

[USALiberal]

117. LOL, maybe self delete! nt

[Celerity]

122. it probably won't happen

[cwydro]

118. Um.

Oops.

[JudyM]

120. Yeah. Now the statement would have to be that changing his mind shows weakness, presumably.

[cwydro]

123. Lol.

I like Biden, but these early stumbles are worrisome.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

124. This thread didn't age well.

At all.

[mtnsnake]

125. Hey, Vidal, now that Biden doesn't stand up for what he believes, what say you now?

Ouch!!

[Vidal]

127. I say he caved

nt

[Vidal]

128. which was probably a smart move

he just got a lesson -- in Dem primaries there is no middle ground on abortion.

[demmiblue]

133. He can't say anything anymore (flagged for review). n/t

[Jarqui]

130. In 1974 or so, I made my first efforts for gay rights

I'm not gay. At the time, it was a significant transformation for me personally from being homophobic at a private school for boys.
Back then, I do not recall gay marriage even being an issue. Since then, when it first was brought up, I wasn't ready for it as I hadn't given it much consideration and I was not supportive.
Today, I cannot imagine not supporting it - it seems offensive to not support it.
People evolve on controversial issues - often due to the time needed to get better acquainted with the facts and points of view.

The fact that Biden has evolved on the Hyde amendment is good enough for me such that I'm not going to make a big deal out of it as it might be hypocritical (even though I never was a supporter of that particular amendment).

[Voltaire2]

135. Lulzd.