So, just curious: Why do you think Sanders has fallen to single digits on DU?

[wyldwolf]

And, if this has been covered, kindly point me to the thread. Interested in the theories.

[Turin_C3PO]

1. Elizabeth Warren and migration to JPR.

That’s my guess.

[HerbChestnut]

5. Even JPR is a bit of a ghost town these days.

You'll probably find most Sanders supporters on Reddit, which has a substantially larger user base than here.

[BannonsLiver]

12. I bet that Reddit is loads of fun.

[Cha]

19. ..

[LibFarmer]

25. lol nt

[HerbChestnut]

43. It is if you've ever been there

All sorts of forums, most of which aren't remotely political. One of my favorites is r/oddlysatisfying, but there's more serious stuff too like r/science or r/history if that's what you're into.

[BannonsLiver]

44. Lol I know what reddit is.

I was talking about the one dedicated to Bernie.

[HerbChestnut]

46. Hey you never know, especially on the internet

Glad you're cultured

[BannonsLiver]

50. Yep

That’s how I learned how to stream the package the NFL offers to Europeans. And how to change the filter on my fridge. It’s super useful.

[Hortensis]

2. Did Sanders ever rise above single digits? Given the

great enthusiasm of his more ardent supporters, the "Sanders or no ones," I believe his previous 8% must have included virtually all of them, plus some others who like him but are open to looking around. And now they're looking around.

[defacto7]

56. As I remember it he's always been at 8 and recently fell to 7.

He's always had a hard 8% that never seemed to move.

[Hortensis]

67. Okay. That is what I'd thought.

Guessing Elizabeth Warren's demonstrating too well that, as in the New Deal era, Democratic Party policies can address our problems.

With Sanders thus reborning himself as an establishment Democrat, with a new nationalist streak to add further appeal for right-leaner populists, there might be a little movement. #FiveWhiteMen Seth Moulton didn't make the debates, and other candidates will run out of funds.

It's the middle of the night, when these thoughts surface, but our intelligence services say Russia is working on uniting extremist types from both the left and right, including Trump's and Sanders populists, into a force that'd make 2016 look like the good old days. Very predictable move, but that's because it's tried and true for bringing down democracies.

[roody]

3. Because we have other sites.

[Agschmid]

13. Yeah but everyone has different sites...

[HerbChestnut]

4. There was a significant exodus of Sanders supporters from this forum after the 2016 primary

Which explains part of it, at least.

[charlyvi]

6. Elizabeth Warren

She has the policies without the baggage; and, she's a Dem.

[Pachamama]

11. +1000

[murielm99]

7. Because he was always a fringe candidate?

[sop]

8. I recall reading a lot of stuff from Sanders' supporters on a couple of other sites during 2016

A lot of those people mentioned their experinces at DU, complaining it was a pro-Hillary, establishment DNC site where they could not voice their opinions, and they would never post here again. Most of them were also vowing they'd never vote for Hillary, opting to vote for Jill Stein, or even Trump.

[Tarheel_Dem]

9. They were never a large contingency here, and since his preceipitous drop in the polls, they're.....

even fewer. Sounds like they've opted for various echo chambers.

[bearsfootball516]

83. A small, but very vocal contingency.

Made it seem like there were many more than there actually were.

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. yOU're rIgHt aBOUT tHaT.

[SidDithers]

107. Hehe...

Sid

[NastyRiffraff]

94. Yes, they were good at swarming

when someone had to nerve to criticize St. Bernie. Instant alert, so they got a lot of undeserved attention.

[Omaha Steve]

98. DU for Sanders 2016 raised over $77,000 through ActBlue

They were a large contingency here.

[lapucelle]

104. Was that considered bundling? N/T

[Omaha Steve]

108. Could have been I guess

I never though about it.

This cycle Warren is out front. We have raised over $2,800 so far.

Elizabeth Warren: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/duforwarren

[relayerbob]

10. Because there are better candidates

[TwilightZone]

14. Elizabeth Warren.

A lot of Sanders supporters said (at the time) that they would have supported Warren in 2016 had she run. I suspect that's where some of his support went this time.

I've been surprised that her support level here this cycle hasn't been higher, though it's increased substantially of late, of course. I suspect that trend will continue.

[ecstatic]

15. I think a few genuine supporters combined with multiple trolls made a lot of noise

about Sanders back in 2015/2016. It made it look like his support was a lot stronger than it really was.

[mopinko]

35. there were, in fact, bernie trolls.

i was on mirt at the time. i think their over the top bs got them by on other sites, but mirt picked them off pretty quick here.
plenty of useful idiots cheering them on, tho.

[Progressive2020]

16. Because

Sanders has made too many enemies among establishment Dems. Warren is Progressive like Bernie, but she is solidly a Democrat, not a former Independent like Bernie. And she has not offended a bunch of people like some view Bernie and his followers to have done.

As others have pointed out, Warren is similar in some ways (policies) to Sanders. But Warren does not have the baggage and core of resentment from some Dems that Bernie does. So, Warren is probably picking up some former Sanders people. Further, she is probably earning some of those percentages on her own merits as a candidate. She is smart, progressive, and a fighter. The more people look at her, the more they seem to like her.

Personally, I am at a point where I am thinking maybe Biden/Warren as a possibility. Biden is a bit too old school for me. I want a newer, fresher view. That said, Biden does draw a lot of support and energy due to his experience. Maybe if he gets the nomination, he can reach out to the more Progressive wing of the Party by bringing Warren on board as VP.

[emmaverybo]

17. He hasn't evolved from l960's white privilege college kids' ideology as espoused by anti-

establishment, anti-authoritarian long-haired “dudes” calling for revolution while their female counterparts fixed them coffee and were supposed to bring the free-love. Many hated daddy, but were being supported through college by him.

They also appropriated slogans, songs, and a sense of self-importance from a history they never lived, ethnicities they didn’t personally know anyone from, and went so far as to wear flack jackets though they were escaping the draft through private psychiatrists and school deferments.

Sure, some helped good causes, some were sincere, but eventually many fell away, leaving
the hard work to more serious members of the free speech, black power, Native American, and anti-war movements.

Bernie’s first incarnation was exciting, but once his supporters and he went anti-Hilary, misogynist, mean, and his dead-beat dad history was revealed, many former fans began to question his authenticity and his means to an end, his own ends.

More exposure to his limitations has brought a dampening of enthusiasm. And yes, Elizabeth Warren, who brings progressive politics to bread and butter issues in a way that is both pragmatic and compassionate.

[Hekate]

74. Well spotted

[MrsCoffee]

20. Enjoy your stay.

[TheBlackAdder]

21. Wow! The ignorance of an internal half-baked monologue put in textual form, and not from Trump!

[NurseJackie]

33. Perfect description!

[Cha]

22. Such a long, desperate, screed proving

once again why BS has lost so many supporters.

[George II]

24. A lot of work for naught, eh?

[Cha]

27. smh..

really sad.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. ....

(and yes I had a mouthful of coffee that almost went all over the keyboard)

[sheshe2]

48. Glad you caught that in time!

I once knocked a glass of wine on mine. It was goodbye laptop.

[BumRushDaShow]

49. But it came back again.

[sheshe2]

54. Ya.

Hadn't paid it off and had to buy a new one. I was unemployed at the time. Sigh.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. True story but I actually use an external keyboard on the laptop

Wired even! That way I can position my hands better when typing or using the mouse.

[TreasonousBastard]

64. I do that, too. Laptop keyboards really suck.

[MineralMan]

80. I can't use them. I'm a very fast typist, but I have to have a standard

keyboard. My current one is an old Keytronics I bought as NOS on eBay. It clicks, and uses mechanical switches. I type at least 20% faster on it than even on a more typical cheap PC keyboard.

If I have to use a laptop, things slow way down. I might get used to it, but who has the time to teach finger muscles what to do again.

[BumRushDaShow]

87. I used to have a Keytronics

back in the early 2000s for a dual-Xeon machine that I built (the keyboard used the old PS/2 serial connector). The keyboard needed a hydraulic lift just to pick up but it was solid and yup, it clicked. After buying other lighter-weight keyboards over time I still kept it around for a bit as a spare but finally got rid of it because more and more computers were getting rid of that type of serial/keyboard port in favor of USB.

[MineralMan]

89. There is a PS2 to USB adapter.

That's what I use. I paid $35 for my Keytronics, and bought another new one as a spare.

[BumRushDaShow]

90. Yup.

Had all kinds of adapters including that type and the ones for plugging into the old-style RS-232 serial port. Must have had a bag full of them (some of the newer keyboards that I had bought at the time came with adapters so they could be used for either style port). The thing was just so heavy though but then I guess for durability, that was a good thing.

[LibFarmer]

26. Birds are not willing to land on his podium nt

[LakeArenal]

29. Because DU likes other candidates better.

[zipplewrath]

103. Simple is always better

There were vastly fewer choices last time. Not so now.

[BeyondGeography]

30. He had it much easier last time

He was never going to win, but he was the sole insurgent, running unopposed. He had 40 percent of Democrats to himself. Warren and Buttigieg have changed all that.

[George II]

31. It's not just here. In just about every national and/or state poll, Biden has 2-3 times the support.

[Cha]

36. Right.. let's look at he whole picture..

Thank you!

[dlk]

32. It's the Excellent Competition Minus the Decades of GOP Character Assassination Hillary Endured

Propaganda works.

[2bestill]

34. Because Warren is the better version in this particular lane...

[redstatebluegirl]

37. He has more competition this time.

More than one highly qualified candidate. Many of them have actual policy papers to run on, many have congressional records that show success getting their ideas moved forward. Bernie is also very negative, I think people tire of that after a while.

The young people I know who were solid Bernie in 16, are not this time, many have gone to Mayor Pete, Elizabeth Warren or other candidates who share their values or excite them.

[TCJ70]

38. Have you been around the last few years?

I’m surprised he got to double digits here.

[stonecutter357]

39. posts removed !!!

[NBachers]

40. Because his supporters heckled & booed John Lewis and Hillary Clinton at the 2016 Convention

and he's an opportunist Democrat of Convenience.

Also, his cult is shriveling.

[LuvLoogie]

41. Because this

is The Democratic Underground.

[crazytown]

45. "just curious"?

Three posts removed. Wyldwolf has not lost his touch!

[wyldwolf]

91. Just the name incites riots.

[JI7]

47. most of his asks Trump's support was based fueling hatred of Hillary

just look at how both send their supporters can't stop attacking her even if she isn't running .

[Sneederbunk]

51. Last time he was the alternative. Now he is an alternative.

[samnsara]

52. its just a different time...

[TheFarseer]

53. Sanders supporters know they are not wanted here

If you defend Sanders here, be prepared to be attacked mercilessly. Who needs it?

[Rhiannon12866]

66. +1

[Demsrule86]

69. That is not true...I have been active on this forum from the start and that doesn't happen...if by

attack you mean vet...maybe.

[TheFarseer]

72. I'm not getting sucked into this again.

Edited to say I have been here since 2003 and I am not talking about candidate vetting.

[TwilightZone]

75. That happens to all of the top candidates, every cycle.

Sanders isn't unique in that regard. From what I've seen, the attacks on Biden have been no less strident and the attacks on Warren are beginning to ramp up now that she's displacing Sanders in some polls. Ditto Mayor Pete when he started showing signs of life in the polls.

The same thing happens every election cycle, and one sees what one wants to see. Nothing new.

[floppyboo]

100. Also, tiresome

I imagine when Biden drops to single digits in the fall, Sanders supporters may get vocal here again. Hopefully the 'he's not a Dem' and 'what about his tax returns' and 'he's a millionaire' nonsense will be gathering dust in archives.

[GulfCoast66]

57. Ask John Lewis. NT.

[Hekate]

76. And Dolores Huerta

[defacto7]

58. The undecided vote has been dropping and people are

probably choosing other candidates. That in itself will make his percentage fall. He's always had an immovable 8% while the undecided was between 40 and 50%. Now he's dropped a point as undecideds head into the 30s.

[Lithos]

59. He's re-running 2016

Plus his defining "Democratic Socialist" speech just re-echoed old FDR New Deal ideas - nothing new. He has been eclipsed.

L-

[shanny]

60. I'm interested as to why

Biden is only at 14...and tied with Warren. Interested in the theories.

[FBaggins]

61. For the same reason that Biden has less than half the support here as elsewhere

DUers tend to be more politically active and/or aware. It isn't just name recognition here, so candidates that few in the public are aware of yet have some support that would otherwise go to the two at the top of the list.

[Drunken Irishman]

82. It's not just that DU is more politically aware - they're also to the left of the party.

DU is not the real world. Its demographics are nowhere near the current makeup of the party. That's not a bad thing but it absolutely skews things.

For starters, DU is likely far more white than the Democratic Party. It's probably ideologically a bit more to the left, as well. That plays a role in, say, Biden's numbers...tho I suspect many posters here who don't back Biden would have no problem supporting him strongly if he won the nomination.

And that might be an even bigger disconnect from, say, other social media communities. DU is probably older and Bernie pulls a good amount of his support from younger liberals, so, while ideologically DU is pretty liberal, it's a pragmatic approach that comes with experience, which may be why they support Warren at a higher level than the national average.

[Liberty Belle]

62. I must say I was impressed today hearing him on NPR talking about

healthcare and more, and why he thinks he can reach out to win blue-collar, middle class voters in swing states.

I'd pretty much decided to go for other candidates due to Sanders' age and the "socialism" taint but hearing his sincerity and intelligent common-sense talk has me on the fence again and remembering what attracted so many unlikely voters to him before.

We could do far worse than Sanders as the nominee, though I love Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris, to name just two of the many great choices we have.

[betsuni]

63. Giving a single digit to the Democratic Party makes one unpopular when Trump is president.

[Cha]

65. lol

[Hekate]

73. Oh, snap

[Sparkly]

109. Precisely.

[KayF]

68. in the polls it's because of Warren

in DU, it's that, plus obnoxious anti-Bernie behavior driving them away.

[Paladin]

70. I don't know the reasons. I'm just glad it's happening. (nt)

[PDittie]

71. Variety of factors

Stating the obvious first: DU ? Real World.

But there are many similarities, and this thread a couple of weeks ago explained the community's preferences and trends. Excerpt:

Rounding out the top five, Bernie Sanders' level of support remains remarkably stable. Day to day, Sanders rarely loses supporters, but he only seems to pick up enough additional supporters to keep him hovering around the same percentage. Beginning the month at 7.94%, Sanders is currently perched at 7.71%. His support has never risen above 8.13% -- but has never dropped below 7.63%.

He's probably dropped a little in the last 15 days, just as Biden has, and just as Warren has risen. My thought relative to these percentages also is that as more 'undecideds' come off the fence, they move the numbers for those who aren't gaining support down a little. See: Klobuchar.

And to be Captain Obvious once again, Bernie isn't gaining any support on DU. This would also be reflected in Real World polling, too. What's worth watching is the polls under way at this moment relative to his "democratic socialism" speech, probably publishing Monday.

With two more weeks before the debates, there should be some unpredictable volatility in Real World polling numbers ... and certainly in the week after the first debate. As for DU ...

[lamp_shade]

77. The term democratic socialism leaves a bad taste is some folks mouths. It does mine.

[MineralMan]

79. Elizabeth Warren is co-opting his ideas, and has an actual plan.

That's why. It's not 2016 any more. It was always a toss-up between Warren and Sanders, but she didn't run. Now, she's running and talking about her plans. It looks like some folks are switching their preference to her.

I think that's it.

[Iggo]

110. If she'd've run in 2016, I'd've supported her instead of him.

I can't be the only one.

[randr]

81. I want a candidate who is good for two terms

Just one of my developing criteria

[jberryhill]

84. Because less than 10% chose him

What do I win?

[FakeNoose]

86. Do you really want to know, or is this to start another argument?

Most of us on DU are registered Democrats. Most of have pledged to support whatever candidate that our Party selects as its leader through the primary process.

I don't think Bernie has a snowball's chance in hell of being the Democratic nominee, since he refuses to join our party. I don't have anything personally against the guy, but he's not a Democrat.

[wyldwolf]

93. it's totally to start another argument. After 92 replies, I've been waiting for just the right mark.

[LanternWaste]

92. My guess: as Gandhi said...

“I like your Sanders, I do not like your Sanders supporters. Your Sanders supporters are so unlike your Sanders.”




He's been risen to the status of sacred cow... too many unsupported allegations about how he and his supporters are somehow oppressed on DU is indicative of this imaginative, self-righteous, self-fulfilling prophecy.

[NYMinute]

96. Very well put nt

[Cha]

99. Except I, for one, do not

like BS.. ever since he said he thought it was a good idea to primary President Obama in 2012.

Nope.. never did like him.

[dgauss]

95. Read "The Sneetches" by Dr Seuss. That might explain it.

[SouthernProgressive]

97. Their first choice last time around is running this time.

There is just no comparison between Warren and Sanders.

[Iggo]

111. This.

[democratisphere]

101. Not a 100% genuine all the time Democrat.

[sarabelle]

105. 2016

[Downtown Hound]

102. Because he had his day and he's done.

Move on.

[VarryOn]

106. We have lots of new, fresh candidate...

More choices. This competition is better. Also, his stump speech this year is pretty much the same as 2016.

We just have more inpirational and progressive candidates that he's compared with this year. Mrs. Clinton, frankly, made him look and sound better.