If you think that Biden winning in 2020 amounts to losing,

[MineralMan]

maybe it's time to recalibrate. He might not be your personal choice as a nominee, but if polling continues along the track it has been on, it will be clear that he is the choice of a helluva lot of Democratic voters.

We do have to win the 2020 general election. That's sort of a crucial thing, really. Losing that election isn't a viable option. So, if we get deep into the primary elections, and Joe Biden is still at about 40%, with the remaining challengers still having double digit lower numbers, the die is probably cast.

So, OK. If that happens and we all get behind our Democratic nominee, we end up with Joe Biden as President. I'm not really seeing a downside to that, really. He's on board with doing something about climate change. He'll probably pick a woman as a running mate, since that would be the logical thing to do. He doesn't want a border wall. He does very well with AA voters, too. He's good with LGBTQ voters, since he pushed Obama into accepting same-sex marriage. He'd be strongly determined to reverse the damage Trump has done and correct Trump's stupid errors.

If enough Democrats turn out, we'll increase our majority in the House through the coattail effect and might even manage to get a Senate majority. If enough Democrats turn out, including those who didn't think Biden was the best choice of the 24 candidates in the primary race, we can make that happen.

A Biden win wouldn't be a loss. It's just wouldn't. What would be a loss would be Donald Trump getting re-elected.

I'll vote for whoever the nominee turns out to be, of course. I always have voted that way. We do better when Democrats are in power. It's that simple. So, if Joe Biden is the nominee, I sort of expect everyone to climb on board and make it all happen. I will be incredibly disappointed if that is not the case. If he's not the nominee, I'll get on board with whoever is, but I think it's most likely that we'll see Joe Biden's name on our 2020 general election ballots. Maybe we can think about that possibility and get a little more comfortable with it.

[SpankMe]

1. "If enough Democrats turn out..."

That's the key phrase. The biggest, single reason Hillary list is because of low voter turnout.

Not just non-voting Dems, but apathetic independents. The most effective thing we can do to win is to get more people into the voting booth.

[MineralMan]

3. GOTV is always the answer.

I wish we Democrats were better at it, frankly.

[BlueWI]

16. This is why we need to look closely at the primary campaign.

Some candidates are more strategic in maximizing turnout. It should be a factor in who we support for the nomination.

[MineralMan]

17. We really don't have any data on that.

We have no idea who would maximize turnout, frankly. If you have hard information on that, please share it.

[BlueWI]

19. It's a complicated and somewhat state by state issue.

Some of it was shared at the Wisconsin Democratic state convention. I will do some research - good suggestion.

[treestar]

70. +1

Let's get this state back!

[marylandblue]

67. Yeah it's hard to predict what will work best.

But like in war, the side which innovates has an advantage. In 2004, Dean innovated by using the Internet to raise money, which gave him a surprise jolt. in 2008, Obama extended Dean's innovation and it helped him win. Now everyone dies it.

In 2016, Trump harnessed the power of Twitter to bypass the media and speak to audience directly.

Whose got the innovation that will give an advantage in 2020? I'm considering 3 candidates who have used 3 different strategic innovations to get an advantage. I think one of them will win.

[sop]

33. Biden likely would do better in certain swing states Obama carried in '08 and '12

than other candidates. Biden probably wouldn't bring out the far left in other states like some candidates, but he'd still win over Trump is these reliably blue states. Strategies and calculations are good, but the most important thing is to get people out to vote for the Democratic nominee, and not become disillusioned because their candidate didn't win.

[pazzyanne]

55. If he gets the nomination, Biden stratically choosing a progressive vp candidate

to run with him could help turn out more progressive voters IMO. I would love to see a woman running for president, but that is a risk we need to be honest about when the primaries get closer. I fully backed Hillary, who was the most qualified person to ever run for president. It frightens me to think that a woman in the lead spot this next election could result in another 4 years of tRump. I will be keeping a close eye on the debates with an eye toward the primaries. I would love to see Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, or Kamala Harris in the lead spot, but I have no faith in voters when the stakes are so high for the next election. I am supporting Amy Klobuchar, but would have no problem voting for most of the Democratic candidates. In the presidential election, it is Democrats do or die!

[Demsrule86]

109. Why ...that wont help in states we need to win...he should pivk

Someone from Georgia, Texas, Florida or maybe Ohio.

[BlueWI]

90. What does far left even mean?

In reality, we're speculating about who does well where. Right now, Biden is a front runner in national polls six months before the first votes, and the race is tightening.

I do agree that turning out the base is key, and I will add that liberals are more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee than their moderate or conservative counterparts.

[lark]

23. Fail on the facts.

Hillary got 3 million MORE votes, not less, she was the vote winner and all your denigration can't change that and the reason you give is ot the reason she lost. She lost because in 3 states drumpf got around 80,000 more votes and that put him over the top. The vote was totally hacked in FL MI, WI and PA and that is how they stole the race she actually won.

Of course, turnout is key. But it is even more important because we know they (Repugs & their foreign collaborators) will go even bigger this time to make it look like he wins a plurality. We have to overcome their toxicity to our country or we are done and they do not plan on losing power and even if we win, I don't know that he will leave. These are bad times.

[delisen]

81. Bigger turnout: combat Russian involvement

Unfortunately even after the mueller report, an ongoing investigation, and new information coming out on Russia infiltration in 2016 as well as warning about Russian involvement in the 2020 election, many democrats seem to be ignoring the issue or placing it on the back burner.

[Doreen]

99. Part of that low voter turn out was because

Sanders had his tantrum and did not encourage his followers to vote and did not endorse Hillary until it was to late. He did so much damage to Hillary's name while campaigning that he convinced his voters it was either better to not vote, vote for Stien, or vote for trump.

[Voltaire2]

106. Zero evidence but if that makes you feel

better about the disastrous election...

[Demsrule86]

110. I think so too.

[TheFarseer]

115. Yeah

Bernie should have endorsed her and done 39 events in 13 states over the last months of the campaign highlighting the issues where Clinton is better than Trump and then gone on TV and encouraged voters to come out and vote Clinton - oh wait, he did that! Well, he at least shouldn’t have talked all the time about the emails and right wing conspiracy theories like Pizzagate and Benghazi and dredging up old stuff like Monica oh wait, he didn’t do that!

[Fla Dem]

130. There was not low voter turn out. In fact was the highest total voter turnout

in history in total numbers. The percentage of eligible voters voting was about the same as in previous years 55%. I would agree with you that a few thousand votes from Bernie voters who either sat out or voted for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson might have helped. But they would have had to been targeted in certain states. She did after all win the popular vote. It was the electoral college that did her in.



See my response here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=153749

[Fla Dem]

125. Hillary Clinton DID NOT have low voter turnout.

HRC received 65,853,514 votes for President. That was the 2nd highest vote total for any Presidential election.



https://www.infoplease.com/history-and-government/us-elections/presidential-elections-1789-2016

Voter turnout for the 2016 Presidential election was about same as the past 9 general elections. 2016 election had a higher voter turnout than 2000 when Obama ran the 1st time. And vote turnout in 2016 was equal to Obama's 2nd general election



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections

Enough of this Hillary shaming.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. I agree with you... I say the same thing about Bernie.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

10. All the Democratic candidates

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. Yes, ALL of them... absolutely!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

20. ..................................................................

[billpolonsky]

27. Oh, yawn already...

Can we get over that old chestnut and focus on defeating Donald Trump in 2020 with whoever wins the Primary.

"Sen. Bernie Sanders, a longtime independent, has pledged to govern as a Democrat if elected president in 2020, a move that comes after the Democratic National Committee required all the party’s candidates to “run and serve as a member of the Democratic Party.”"


[link:https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/05/sanders-run-as-democrat-dnc-1204978|


The best candidate will be the one who wins over the most voters with ideas and solutions.

Any one on the Democratic ticket will win with support behind them.

Forward!

[still_one]

31. Was I responding to you?

[MineralMan]

37. Anyone can reply to anyone else in DU threads.

People are not required to limit their responses just to posts that are replies to them.

[still_one]

63. Gee, I was wondered if he was responding to the right poster since he was responding to my tip of

the hat I gave to another poster with a comment that made no sense in context

but hey, maybe a few more will chip in to my tip of the hat

I am going to be a little rude, I don’t need you to explain the rules

[MineralMan]

71. Then you can just disregard my response,

or respond to it as you please.

[marylandblue]

4. The problem with Biden is that my concerns for the country's future won't be addressed,

Last edited Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

unless he really turns into something he has never been in his life.

I won't call that a loss, but I would feel like it's just delaying the inevitable. I hope I am wrong about that, but the worry won't go away.

[MineralMan]

7. Hmm...my concerns for the country's future and yours are probably

almost identical, really. Here's what I think in 2019: We first need to fix a bunch of crap Trump did. He truly set us back. I think Biden can manage that just fine, especially if we can get the Senate back.

Don't tell anyone, but Biden is very likely to be a one-term President. He wouldn't say that, because it's not smart to say that, but I'm betting that will be the case. If I'm right, choosing a VP who can step up will be very important. I'd be cool with Harris. I'd be cool with Klobuchar. I'd be cool with Mayor Pete or several others in the current race.

The three I named need just one thing: They need to take some laps in the Executive Branch pool and get comfortable swimming there. That's one of the things most of the candidates in the primary race are missing. Four years ought to do it.

Our next President is going to have a couple of big jobs. Job 1 is to fix what Trump broke. Job 2 is to lay the groundwork for major progressive goals. It will take a couple of years to fix what Trump has screwed up completely. However, the groundwork for a genuinely good healthcare system can be laid in those same two years, if we have a Congress that will enact that groundwork. Then, the next two years can be devoted to laying a solid foundation for the progressive changes we need.

There's an enormous amount of inertia in the US Government. Once it is moving in a direction, it is very, very difficult to change that direction. Only time and a strong will to change, supported by both the Executive and Legislative Branches can exert enough force to change that path. Even then, large changes in direction happen slowly.

[marylandblue]

12. You are right, we aren't so far apart, the main difference is

I think both sets of goals have to be pursued simultaneously, starting with the campaign. Hard to explain why.

[emmaverybo]

76. What is the something he's never been his whole life?

[marylandblue]

79. He's always had a good instinct for moderation and compromise..

As the country changes, he has changed with it, so he's never too far from the center. That's usually a good thing, but I think this is a moment that calls for change. I realize that other voters may not see it that way, therefore he might win. My fear is that he won't make the changes I want to see, or he won't go far enough. I think that's bad for the country in the long run, so I expect I would remain worried.

[emmaverybo]

96. I'm not sure most of the more progressive changes more progressive candidates propose will

be realized for a number of years, but undoubtedly a president sets the tone. If he goes to the far reaches, she might get only a percentage of the dream pie, but then that’s something. We do need to remember how much political capital, sweat and tears it took for Obama to implement the ACA, a relatively moderate plan, that did not involve much restructuring or any actual shake up within
existing infrastructure. And then so much fall out.
Still, I get you and thank you for your response.

[Voltaire2]

84. I agree entirely.

Biden does not represent the change we desperately need on many fronts. He of course is vastly preferable to any republican, but if we keep electing caretaker regimes to clean up after Republican disasters, we will keep sliding to the right, and we will not address the profound structural reforms that are needed.

[Demsrule86]

111. He is progressive,and I doubt your concerns will be addressed with any candidate.

It is unlikely we get the senate, thus it is about stopping Trump.

[marylandblue]

116. That's my opinion and I don't appreciate your flippant dismissal of it.

Your attitude is the exact thing that concerns me.

I don't think we should give up on the Senate. Rather the candidate should campaign to help win the Senate in states we might win, and make it part of his appeal - give me the Senate so we don't have more obstruction. This us also why Pelosi is piling up bills on McConnell's desk - to highlight that she is working and he isn't.

I also don't appreciate your personal, unsupported "doubts" about other candidates who have more ambitious plans. If one of them wins, they will at least have a mandate to do something.

And Biden has never been all that progressive. He simply isn't. Running just to beat Trump and nothing more is not a progressive platform, it's not any kind of platform. if it works, it's because it's one big thing moderates and progressive agree on, not because those swing voters bought a progressive platform.

You can't have it both ways. Every other leading candidate is to his left. He can't claim a progressive mantle by holding down the right flank.

You shoud really look at Warren's clash with Biden over the bankruptcy bill to find what happens when a progressive fights a moderate.

[Demsrule86]

123. I wasnt flippant but truthful...the senate is a hard 'get. We need to win

I don't think policy will be an option unless we get the senate. We must win the presidency in order to stop Trump and his muderous EO'S...not to mention war,.

[Zambero]

5. And kindly forget about the Susan Sarandon types

They are ideologically driven and oblivious to the fact that the country is in an emergency situation right now, with the fates of democracy and any hope of global environmental recovery hanging in the balance. We need to focus on the much larger number of independents and blue collar swing state Democrats who rolled the dice for Trump (and effectively lost in the process).

[BlueWI]

18. Can we put a pause on the left of center scapegoating?

Trump got 100 million votes, and that had little to do with Susan Sarandon. It has more to do with white majority support for Republicans - that's the real challenge. Haven't looked it up lately, but I would guess that white voters supported Trump by at least 60%. Why isn't there more venting about that, and what's the strategy to convince white voters that voting Republican isn't in their interest?

[KPN]

25. +1

Thank you.

[Ligyron]

45. I really hope we can.

It will never be known how many didn't vote because: Susan Sarandon, but I really doubt there were very many. Certainly not 80,000. Ditto the rare and elusive Bernie Bro.

Either way, I'll bet members of those groups won't make that mistake again.

[Zambero]

74. 100 million Trump votes?

Sounds a tad bit inflated. Hillary took the popular vote with just shy of 66 million.

[BlueWI]

82. Corrected - my bad.

According to CNN, 62.9 million votes for Trump, 57% support among white voters vs. 37% for Clinton.

1.2 million votes for Stein vs. 62.9 million for Trump. Still pretty easy to see where the most votes were in 2016.

[Demsrule86]

107. No ...they gave Trump his electoral c ollege win...and will do so again if we are not

Careful...fuck them all. I will Never forgive what they did to this country by basically campaining for Trump.

[BlueWI]

139. 62 million votes for Trump

1.2 million for Jill Stein.

The real concern are the votes for Trump.

But we can all choose where to put our energy and strategy.

[Firestorm49]

6. If Biden becomes the nominee, so be it, but.....

he damn well better have a very strong, and I also prefer female, candidate as his VP choice. Kamala Harris or Elizabeth Warren would be my picks.

[MineralMan]

8. Klobuchar, too, would be good. She just isn't as well known.

[Turin_C3PO]

9. I can't wait until he's sworn in and shitbag is kicked out!

Yes, everyone, especially Sanders supporters need to get on board with WHOEVER the nominee is. This election is too critical to throw a tantrum if your chosen candidate loses.

[BlueWI]

11. I don't think anyone equates Biden winning with a loss.

But it's the beginning of the primary season and not everyone supports Biden for the nomination. It's the premature declarations of victory before the first vote is cast that leads to restive reactions.

[MarcA]

52. +1,000 n/t

[Gothmog]

13. Joe Biden beating trump would be a very good thing

RBG cannot last another six years

[pazzyanne]

58. RBG

Blessings on that patriotic woman! But as strong willed as that lady is, another 6 years is asking too much.

[Demsrule86]

108. Exactly right.

[mcar]

15. Kick

[pnwmom]

21. Why are you so eager to coronate him before even a single primary or caucus? nt

[MineralMan]

22. Coronate? Where have I heard that before?

I haven't seen that word in use since 2016.

Look, the guy's leading the polls in a dramatic way. Will that continue? I don't know. If it does, though, he'll be the nominee.

We're all speculating here. It's not a freaking coronation. It's a discussion about possibilities.

Uffda!

[delisen]

80. I am interested in all candidates at this point

I am not will to see Biden as inevitable or even most likely. We have a long way to go and our most important duty as citizens is to examine the candidates and obtain as much information as we can about interference with our elections, and the issues facing us-which are formidable.

I do not consider Biden's lead in the polls to be at all dramatic at this very early stage, especially for a candidate who has strong name recognition.

This stage of the political process is for us-the voters-all of us ; not just those who have already, in their own minds, or who have made a self-binding choice and are not open to change.

[emmaverybo]

77. Boy, if saying let's not consider it a loss IF he wins is coronation...

[pnwmom]

83. And let's not consider it a loss if any highly qualified Democrat wins the primaries. nt

[emmaverybo]

88. Nothing to do with what I posted. I notice your responses are never rebuttals. You double down

or get another comment in to continue on the same tack. I will no longer engage with you.

[Demsrule86]

112. All our candidates except a couple are great and I would vote for any candidate, but if

It isnt Biden ,we lose the general. Trump wins in the electoral college with Wi, PA and MI.

[pnwmom]

120. You have no proof of that. And you also don't know

that Biden would automatically win every state that was won in 2016. We could have a different electoral map in 2020. During one election, Florida proved to be critical. In another, Ohio was critical.

We can't know right now which states will be the most critical battlegrounds.

[Demsrule86]

121. Look at the polls if this holds, Biden is the one who can beat Trump.

We must beat Trump.

[pnwmom]

122. At this point in the polls in 2007, Obama had 1% and few guessed he could win the general.

Polls mean very little at this stage.

[thesquanderer]

126. re: "It isnt Biden ,we lose the general. Trump wins in the electoral college with Wi, PA and MI."

Polls say others can win those states as well.

Michigan (June): Biden and Sanders both lead Trump by 12. Buttigieg by 6, Warren by 4, Harris by 3.
Pennsylvania (May): Biden by 11, Sanders by 7, Warren by 3, Buttigieg by 1, Harris even.
Wisconsin (March): Biden by 8, Sanders and Warren by 4, Harris even (Buttigieg not polled)

...and I suspect Warren, Buttigieg, and Harris will go up from those numbers over time, as all currently suffer weaker name recognition compared to the others.

Poll references below.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/05/biden-sanders-democrats-lead-trump-michigan-poll/1330277001/

https://poll.qu.edu/pennsylvania/release-detail?ReleaseID=2620

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/wisconsin-2020-bernie-sanders-leads-democratic-field-trump-competitive-in-general-election

[Demsrule86]

135. We have to win by a great deal in order to keep the pugs from winning by cheating and the others

will be successfully demonized by the right...Biden is better known so less likely. Three states matter...WI, MI and PA...Biden is leading in all of them...more than the others.

[thesquanderer]

137. Yes Biden is leading the other candidates against Trump (or at least tied) in all three states...

...but I will be curious to see if polls still show him to be in that position 7 or 8 months from now when we start having primaries, after all the debates and campaigning between now and then. If he is no longer the decisive leader in this respect, I wonder whether the Biden supporters who base their support largely on this may shift, i.e. if polls are showing that other candidates are as strong or even stronger than Biden in these three states in terms of how they fare when pitted against Trump.

I could easily see my support shifting away from Buttigieg to someone else if others seem to be notably stronger than him against Trump when primary day comes. Biden would be a bit of a tough sell, as there are probably a half dozen other candidates I prefer. But for example, as a left-leaner, I could easily switch to Warren or Sanders, if one of them looks to beat Trump more decisively. But Biden isn't out of the question. If polls next year show him as the ONLY candidate who is beating Trump in those states, I would switch to him.

[thesquanderer]

140. After seeing Biden's event last night, I'm less sure he could beat Trump.

I know what the polls are saying, but I'm afraid Trump would clobber him in the debates. I'm not talking about with command of facts, obviously, but with the overall way they come across and their ability to connect and communicate effectively in that kind of environment. In fact, unless he somehow significantly improves his performance in that kind of venue, I would not be surprised if he didn't make it out of March.

[Demsrule86]

136. If he wins the primary it is a win not a coronation.

[pnwmom]

138. Right. But that's a big if, considering we haven't had a single debate,

much less a primary or caucus.

At this point in 2007, Obama was polling about 1%.

[Sherman A1]

24. I believe that

A cardboard box 📦 would be an improvement of several magnitudes over our current situation. I certainly prefer Andrew Yang, but will vote for the nominee whomever that happens to be.

[dalton99a]

26. +1. I'd vote for a doorknob over Trump

Doorknobs are inherently harmless and very useful

[NewsCenter28]

78. Not necessarily

If you touched a doorknob that was extremely sticky, perhaps it would be permanently attached and they would have to cut your hand off to unstick you from the doorknob. Don’t forget you could touch a doorknob that was scalding hot for some reason too. Danger lurks everywhere!

[KPN]

28. Haven't seen anyone pitch Biden as a loss here. The primary is just starting. People are just

talking up who they like (support), who they don't, and why. Perhaps there have been some comments amidst all that about who can get out the potential D votes best, etc., that have mentioned doubt about Biden in this regard? I just haven't seen any DU posters saying they would not vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee.

The time for twisting arms will come after the nomination is won.

[3Hotdogs]

29. A Biden presidency wouldn't be a loss. It would be a lateral movement.

Based on his votes as Senator, I wouldn't expect much positive change. Things just wouldn't get worse.

[MineralMan]

30. Nope. Look at Trump's record.

Not a lateral move at all. No way!

[Iggo]

36. A lateral move from Trump?

Come on, you don't believe that.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Don't be so sure.

[robbob]

73. I imagine the poster means a lateral move

From the pre-tRump status quo. Which is my main complaint about Biden, he seems like a relatively conservative (small “c”) centrist. But he may be the best hope to get rid of the dump, and then let’s hope the stink of tRump hangs over the reThugs for a long time, allowing progressive change that benefits ALL Americans to take root.

[world wide wally]

32. Keep in mind that Obama has Joe's ear anytime he wants it

[MineralMan]

34. I think he'll also have Obama's strong support if he's the nominee.

Now, I'm sure Barack Obama will support any Democratic nominee, but there is a strong relationship he has with Biden that could mean even more enthusiastic support.

[Iggo]

35. I'd have no problem voting for Joe Biden in the General Election.

No problem at all.

Turn-out is the key.

I'm only one man.

[demigoddess]

39. I'd prefer a woman, but I'll take a democrat any day over trump/disaster.

[MineralMan]

40. That could still happen, of course.

I'd be willing to bet that Biden would pick a woman as a running mate, too. Probably Harris, I'm thinking. It's not the same, but, still...

[AlexSFCA]

41. If he selects his VP strategically

then we can do it all. E.g. Warren VP will consolidate voters of all wings of the party and will attract a huge chunk of independent votes (most of them are young = future). But if he pulls Hillary on us with the worst choice someone one like Tim Caine (no one knew who he was)...

[MineralMan]

43. Oh, I agree that Tim Caine wasn't the best choice for Hillary.

I cringed when I heard that, actually.

[AlexSFCA]

48. his choice did nothing to improve her candidacy.

The moment she announced that choice, I told my friends - trump is gonna be president. You need to select someone who can attract additional voters. I know Warren will, without doubt. Harris? maybe less but still would be better than Caine in generating excitement. If there is one thing we can learn from GOP is how to be united no matter what (think long term).

[MineralMan]

49. I think the age factor might play into Biden's choice.

That and the fact that Harris has an edge with the POC vote. Warren is 70 years old, and age is going to be a factor in play in 2020. That's why I don't think he'll pick Warren. Harris has great appeal and is an excellent campaigner. Her energy would bring a lot to the campaign.

Just my guess, though, based on several factors. Another possibility might be Klobuchar, but she doesn't bring a lot of ready-made voters with her.

[AlexSFCA]

53. Klobuchar'c choice will do nothing

why do you think age will be a factor? the opposition is not any younger. Warren at 70 y.o. is extraordinarily popular among young people.

[FloridaBlues]

86. Perhaps there is another woman not in the primary Biden would

Pick if he gets the nomination perhaps Women Governor.
If Biden wins will do everything I can with local dems to GOTV just like others on this site.

[Ligyron]

54. I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren might clash policy wise.

She has great ideas I wholeheartedly support, frankly, I'd rather have her as President than Joe. But I'll bet he doesn't pick her fearing she'll be too aggressive in pushing those ideas.

Hell, I wish they'd let her write the Dem's platform actually.

[lambchopp59]

42. Joe Biden as nominee equals low youth vote turnout.

An inherent danger of a repeat of 2016 right after some blindingly idiotic "october surprise".
Don't blast me over this, I'm 60 years old and will vote for the Dem nominee.
But get this through your heads: I work with many youth who will write in Bernie, or just sit it out.

[MineralMan]

46. Well, I hope you're wrong about that.

[lambchopp59]

50. I certainly hope so.

I'm only sharing what I hear from my GOTV efforts.
These are financially struggling youth, living in leaky roof travel trailers and one thing they want none of is any "establishment, lukewarm" president.
Again, don't shoot the messenger.
But get out here in the ghettos and masses of youths working for minimum wage, and optimism for any change dies with any hint of mediocrity.

[demigoddess]

118. in other words, vote for trump.

even I knew when I was young that voting for a third party just threw the election the other way.

[tonedevil]

44. When I meet this mythical...

person who doesn't think donald should be president and also thinks Joe Biden winning would be a loss I'll be sure to pass along your wise words. It's too bad there aren't phone booths anymore because she or he is likely hiding in one with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

[MineralMan]

47. Just watch this forum. You'll see that person from time to time.

[Voltaire2]

104. So please provide an example

Should be easy.

[MineralMan]

131. Here you go:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287153366

That's the idea.

[Voltaire2]

132. Where does that say Biden winning would be a loss?

Oh right. It doesn’t.

Thanks.

[MineralMan]

133. It's right there, between the lines.

But, never mind.

[Voltaire2]

134. Oh. It is a metaphoric interpretation.

Got it.

[Hekate]

60. I could introduce you to half a dozen of those unicorns here at DU. Keep your eyes peeled...

...because due to the TOS I can't exactly do call-outs.

But here's a hint: a certain poster who has chosen another candidate (per the avatar at bottom of posts in this forum) but obsessively starts posts about Biden's terrible flaws and never says a word about his/her favored candidate. S/he always gets a passle of other posters scurrying in to pile on.

[Control-Z]

93. Right?

I see it but seldom say anything. I'm still nervous about what I can say after the 2016 nightmare. And I'm not just talking about that tragic November night. I swear sometimes it feels like I have PTSD.

[Hekate]

97. I just call them on their sht when I catch them, but it's like whack a mole.

Or as I really think of it because I grew up in Hawai'i: trying to slap cockroaches with a rubber slipper, because there's so many and they keep reincarnating.

[Control-Z]

98. That made me laugh.

I hate cockroaches but just the image of you with your rubber slipper in hand cracked me up.

[Voltaire2]

105. So you've moved the goalposts to

A poster who criticizes Biden.

Well done!

[thesquanderer]

124. I agree. Biden is certainly not everyone's favorite candidate, but I have seen zero indication

that ANYONE here equates a Biden 2020 victory with a loss. The OP really looks a like a strawman argument to me. Seriously, who here doesn't believe, "A Biden win wouldn't be a loss. It's just wouldn't. What would be a loss would be Donald Trump getting re-elected."?

[yuiyoshida]

51. I will vote for the nominee but in the meantime

I am sticking with KAMALA !

[IronLionZion]

56. No Democratic candidate will ever be good enough for some DUers

And it would be best if those DUers could work on getting over that before the general election.

Getting a Dem majority in the Senate and a Dem president to sign the laws and appoint judges is plenty good enough for me.

But first he has to convince enough Dems to nominate him in the primaries, which is very likely.

[Skittles]

57. yeah yeah yeah

I will vote for him if I have to

[OrlandoDem2]

59. SCOTUS!!!! I'll vote for whatever Democrat wins the nomination!!

[pazzyanne]

61. Ahhh, finally Democrats are looking at the long game!

Republicans will be out in numbers to keep their lead in the Senate. We need to get out the Democratic and Independent vote to counteract Republicans turnout. We have a short term goal of ousting tRump, but we need a long term plan as well.

[beachbum bob]

62. the extreme left will do what they always do, so don't be surprise when they do what they can to

see trump reelectedd just like they let Bush/cheney get elected and trump the first time

[Politicub]

64. I have literally not seen this message or anything like it on DU.

If it’s there, I must have missed it or it was posted by someone on my block list. It reaches the height of drama, and I am sorry that I missed it.

If anyone feels like any dem winning in 2020 is losing, they have bigger problems and need to seek professional help.

We are in the primary season. It’s okay to support any candidate that you want. Biden is the most popular right now. He is going to get more scrutiny because of that. It’s just the way it is.

No one is going to make it through the primary season unscathed. It would be convenient if we lined up behind the same person and enabled them to sail through to the nomination. The crucible-like primary exists for a reason. It’s a test and a hard one at that.

Better to air the dirty laundry and poor decisions that candidates have made now — and they all have various pieces of baggage that will rub someone the wrong way. The upside is it will give them and their communication teams the opportunity to address it and tailor messages about the issue.

If Biden is destined to win the nomination, that’s great and he will have so much support that it will drown out the naysayers. But I wouldn’t expect people to fall in line this early because of survey and poll results,. That’s insulting, frankly.

[melman]

75. That's because no one has posted anything like it

It's a totally invented premise used as an excuse for yet another tedious lecture.

[Voltaire2]

85. Exactly.

[Nay]

100. Thank you. That's exactly what it is. I never saw a post like that, either.

[customerserviceguy]

65. It comes down to how he becomes the nominee

If he has enough delegates for a first ballot victory, then repairing hurt feelings from the campaign should go smoothly. If he can't win on the first ballot, and there is one remaining not-Biden left, and the superdelegates push him over the top on the second ballot, we might not see such a peaceful transition into the general election.

[Indygram]

66. I don't have confidence Biden will win if he's the nominee

I don't think he's the best suited to go up against Trump because he is too defensive. Same with Bernie. A person who reacts in a defensive way by nature is an easy target for a narcissist.

[nolabear]

68. Biden will give many mainstream Dems the security to become progressive.

If I learned anything from my years as a therapist it’s that people who are off balance seldom take big leaps. We who are inclined toward the big leapers right now are political entrepreneurs, and that’s great. We create change and have vision. And so can the majority of those who follow Democratic principles, but most people need something to bridge the gap between paralysis and leaping off a cliff. Something to help them feel supported and that there’s a springboard beneath them and a decent place to land. Then they can keep going toward their goals with more of a chance of achieving them. I think Biden gives them that bit of forward looking security. He’d damn well better bring the more progressive folks along for that next step. I think he will.

[treestar]

69. Agree, let us learn not to get overly attached to any of the

candidates, including Biden. Be positive about all of them. We don't need PUMA or Berniebro stuff. That's what happens when you get over attached. Fight like hell for them but for their positives, not the others' negatives.

[Iggo]

87. I'm with you.

[NYMinute]

72. K&R nt

[Gothmog]

89. If the choice is between being Woke or winning, I pick winning

The concept that this election is a lock and that the Democratic Party can nominate a far left out of touch candidate is not the real world. If the economy does not falter (and trump is working hard to kill the Obama economy), then this will be a close race.

If the choice is between nominating a very far left progressive candidate or winning, I want to win

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[melman]

91. Michael Steele

lol

[Demit]

94. That's a false choice.

The premise being that only Joe Biden can win. There is no way anyone can know that.

Thank goodness we have a primary season where we get to hear what all the candidates have to say, and we can make our decision that way, instead of being steered by vested interests to a preferred candidate. Beware the heavy manipulation.

[colsohlibgal]

92. I Will Vote For Our Nominee

Biden isn’t my first choice or even my 2nd. Likely not in my top 5.But if he is the nominee of course I would vote for him.

No time for grudges we need a sane non evil President while we send Mafia Donnie to the slammer.

[ecstatic]

95. We should probably start uniting after Super Tuesday

At that point, I assume the winner will be clear?

[zipplewrath]

101. Not losing

It's just that it could be another case of having to wait even longer to achieve things I've been waiting my whole life to see come about. Now we actually have candidates (and ALOT of them) that are willing to work towards those things and based upon his track record, he isn't one of them. But yes, it can always be worse and him winning isn't "losing".

[Demsrule86]

113. And so it goes...16 was catastrophic for our side.

[zipplewrath]

114. Yeah it was

And we picked the leading candidate that time too.

[Voltaire2]

117. We aren't allowed to have nice things

All we can hope for is patching up the damage.

[zipplewrath]

119. 1 step forward

1 back.

After a lifetime, I can't believe we're arguing about civil rights AGAIN.

[Firestorm49]

102. Trying our best to get the African American population to vote in greater numbers sure would help.

[MineralMan]

103. Yes, I agree. Biden's doing well with that population so far.

I don't see any reason for that to change.

[redstatebluegirl]

127. The people in our party that are "my way or the highway"

will cost us the election in 2020 and forward. The party is changing, yes, we are moving more left as the years go by, but if things go according to history as many of the ultra progressives in our party age, their politics will change as well. Some will remain where they were at 20, others will become a bit more moderate, a few will go nuts and change to Republicans.

No political party candidate will satisfy everyone in the party. What it comes down to, especially now, is who comes closest to my values and who will not destroy our country. Almost always for people here on DU it will be the Democrat, but as we saw in 2016, many in our party felt the need to stay home and it was devastating.

I don't want our party held hostage again by a very small group of people who will only vote for "their candidate". I wish we could be that "pure" but we can't and win anything.

[MineralMan]

128. That's the danger, for sure, and it's what I am talking about here.

We can do something, or we can bicker. I say we do something, and bicker later. Let's win first, and then talk about the details.

That's my plan.

[Freethinker65]

129. Selection of Veep for any Democratic nominee will be important

If Biden gets the nomination, he could very well commit to only serving one term to bring normalcy, competence, and stability back to the office of President. Doing so could elevate his Vice President, unlike Pence who must remain essentially in the shadows or serve as a lapdog so as not to upstage the current narcissist in office.