Biden, Recalling Civility in Senate, Invokes Two Segregationist Senators

[melman]

Joseph R. Biden Jr., defending himself on Tuesday night against suggestions that he is too “old fashioned” for today’s Democratic Party, invoked two Southern segregationist senators by name as he fondly recalled the “civility” of the Senate in the 1970s and 1980s.

Speaking at a fund-raiser at the Carlyle Hotel in New York City, Mr. Biden, 76, stressed the need to “be able to reach consensus under our system,” and cast his decades in the Senate as a time of relative comity. His remarks come as some in his party say that Mr. Biden is too focused on overtures to the right as he seeks the Democratic presidential nomination.

At the event, Mr. Biden noted that he served with the late Senators James O. Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia, both Democrats who were staunch opponents of desegregation.

“I was in a caucus with James O. Eastland,” Mr. Biden said, slipping briefly into a Southern accent, according to a pool report from the fund-raiser. “He never called me ‘boy,’ he always called me ‘son.’”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html?smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur

[Indygram]

1. The 1970's and 1980's are the past. I am interested in looking towards the FUTURE

eom

[dalton99a]

2. Those fuckers are dead, Joe

The good old days are gone

[dawg day]

3. He didn't call you "boy" because you're white, Joe.

If the GOP can discard Lincoln, we can discard all those Dixiecrats and take Lincoln as our forebear.

[dalton99a]

5. Eastland was his close ally in the anti-busing fight

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:35 AM - Edit history (1)

[More_Cowbell]

8. I apologize, I didn't see your post before I posted mine. nt

[cwydro]

12. Yeah, that was an unfortunate choice of words there for Biden.

A bit tone deaf.

[demmiblue]

4. Oh my.

No further comment.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

6. It's been 10-years since VP Biden served in the Senate.

Some of his points of reference are over 25-years old. I understand his yearning for a return to comity and so do we all.

And, I suspect he knows the likelihood of returning to anything near to that era is close to ZERO considering the absolute dogmatic, brainwashed, hardened far-right attitudes of virtually all Republican politicians of today. They are also back-stabbers and double-crossers, and serial liars.

There are no gentlemen or real thinkers among GOP politicians any more. All their thinking is done by a behind-the-scenes group of plutocratic think tanks and media machines who now OWN the GOP.....

As Mitch has proven, the GOP is not open for debate......

[More_Cowbell]

7. He never called Biden "boy" because Biden is WHITE

Here's something that Eastland *did* say:

"In every stage of the bus boycott we have been oppressed and degraded because of black, slimy, juicy, unbearably stinking niggers ... African flesh-eaters." https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/11754

Very "civil."

How can President Obama feel when he hears Biden say that Republicans will recover their sanity once Trump is gone? When those same Republicans refused to work with President Obama? Biden is essentially saying "They'll work with ME," and guess why.

[emmaverybo]

11. Some did, essentially, work with him, but he sent out Biden to do the proxy negotiations.

From Wikipedia, corroborated by other articles available online

As vice president, Biden oversaw infrastructure spending aimed at counteracting the Great Recession and helped formulate U.S. policy toward Iraq through the withdrawal of U.S. troops in 2011. His ability to negotiate with congressional Republicans helped the Obama administration pass legislation such as the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010, which resolved a taxation deadlock; the Budget Control Act of 2011, which resolved that year's debt ceiling crisis; and the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, which addressed the impending fiscal cliff.

[More_Cowbell]

9. "I can't tell you how angry this makes me." (re: another Biden quote)

This is a Yasher Ali tweet:

Link to tweet

[stonecutter357]

10. let's go Joe !

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Christ he's embarrassing.

[mtnsnake]

14. I can't believe anyone thinks this guy is our best bet to beat Trump

[Skya Rhen]

15. Most of America thinks this way and they are not the delusional ones.

[Celerity]

18. if most of America has fond remembrances or are sympathetic towards racist scum like Eastland

and Talmadge on a basic human level of respect, if most of America thinks civility with those types of white nationalist monsters is something to be missed, something to be looked back at with a yearning for a return to, we are all well and truly fucked.

[Hortensis]

20. Com'on. YOU associate civilly with people at work. If this were

your attitude toward people you strongly disagree with, you wouldn't have a job. Couldn't work for yourself, either, since you'd be too busy driving away monsters trying to be customers.

The senate was Biden's workplace, where he went to do his job.

The MONSTERS fucking this nation are here today and have to be stopped.

On March 25, Trump’s Department of Justice changed the landscape with a letter to a federal court backing a lawsuit that could potentially nullify the entire Affordable Care Act, ... The next day, President Trump traveled to the Capitol to tell Republican senators that health care would be a top priority. By the end of that week, he tweeted that “ObamaCare is a disaster, far too expensive and deductibility ridiculously high - virtually unusable! Moving forward in Courts and Legislatively!”

[Celerity]

36. the big difference is he is NOW, STILL using pure evil racists as a

current (meaning he is STILL referencing these fuckers) example of civility and fond remembrance. He is wrong, and also, if the Biden of the Poor Peoples' Campaign event shows up at primary debates and major events, (let alone debates with Rump), he has no chance. He was extraordinarily poor there, rambling, incoherent in his sentence construction at multiple times, lost his train of thought on multiple occasions, and personally invaded the hosts' spaces. Maybe it was a one off, but time will surely tell. If he has multiple performance like that one, he will start to crater.

I am absolutely not sold on Biden as the one and only chance we have to beat the monster Trump. IMHO he is far, far from a 'sure bet' and the 'only one' who can beat Rump, which is the rationale many here use as their primary claim for support.

I do NOT believe Pete is the only shot we have, and I am open to switching to a candidate I think can both beat Rump and also be a great POTUS. I have serious, serious doubts that person is Biden. Perhaps I am wrong, but absolutely not there at thsi point.

[Hortensis]

39. No, there is no big difference. And he is at work on

the campaign trail as he speaks to the entire nation, but especially those Democrats who agree our democracy is in grave danger of falling.

If you really think there is a difference today, though, then be the person you pretend he should be at your work and see what happens.

[Celerity]

46. I profoundly disagree with you, but I think we will just have to remain at loggerheads on this

I think neither one of us will change their mind. I am ok with that.

[BlueWI]

49. Are you really defending this remark by Biden?

There is no defending it, especially with the choice of James Eastland, among anyone to name check even among segregationists to show how civil you are.

This is 2019. No more statements that can be easily taken as mollifying white supremacists or white supremacy. That's not a high or unattainable standard.

[Hortensis]

54. Yes, and of course I'm defending it -- and you.

Wherever on this planet you're living you're also associating with people like that -- politely.

Maybe you don't go out of your way to tell others that you believe treating others courteously is decent, sensible, and necessary.

Maybe you don't explain that having a neighbor who smiles and waves hello and will call the police if someone tries to break is much better than having one who blows his leaves onto your property and files spite complaints with the city over your fence and tree branches growing over his yard.

But you're not a leader trying to steer a nation in grave danger away from today's toxic behaviors and back to a civil society that can function without destroying itself. This is exactly what I like BEST and believe is most valuable in Biden. Understand:

Biden's not "mollifying segregationists," he's trying to attract both decent, responsible Democrats who want functional government and those conservative voters who aren't comfortable with segregationists and what the the Republican Party has become. He may not be your favorite, but that is not something that should be attacked.

[BlueWI]

55. But this is politics.

Of course in everyday life we don't cuss people out every time we see a Confederate flag. Although maybe it would help.

I'm a black professional man. I get it that can be necessary to go along to get along at times. So, I don't need a DU-splain on loving those I disagree with.

I once said hi sir to John Boehner when I ran into him unexpectedly. That was civil.

That's not the issue.

This is politics - a political campaign by the one major party that claims to be anti-racist.

And we're talking about James Eastland - have you read the way he talked publicly about black people?

There are some 50/50 calls about whether a statement is politically savvy or offensive. This isn't even a 50/50 call, IMO. Politically tone deaf remark.

[Hortensis]

56. :) How is being courteous to Boehner different in the slightest?

Anyway, this is what work is for politicians and everyday life for our nation.

As for that noise, just where's it coming from? For sure, by far most of it isn't from us.

Who is it benefiting? Not us.

[BlueWI]

60. We're mostly in agreement really.

Our candidates should tread with care with statements about segregationists. There's upside if that is done, political and ethical upside, IMO.

And I personally think that teachable moments can be pursued in cases like this. Obama was great at that.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. That we have to be polite to racists? Yes, that is certainly the American Way.

[Hortensis]

57. It's humanity's way. Do you imagine people around

the planet aren't polite to the racists next door, at work, and at family gatherings for the same reasons we are here?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

58. I'm not. Are you?

[Hortensis]

59. Oh. Yes, I am. We moved from California to Georgia,

where I discovered the local society still has vestiges of its village culture of not long ago, before the car. In contrast, most of California developed with the auto; if people didn't like their neighbors they could avoid easily enough and find friends elsewhere.

But in villages in the past, people had to get along with others for life, and it was very important for the wellbeing, even continued existence, of the village that even people who despised each other treated each other...not too badly. Real troublemakers could be banished.

Of course the car's been around a long time and that's changed a lot here also. These hateful days some nasty sorts are eager to expose themselves right in public. Cold stares and whispers we're supposed to notice identify hard-core bigots who've heard that we're liberal, Democrat, he's Jewish, and from California. Back there, I'd taken them right on and enjoy it. Here, I'm pleasant as if I don't even notice it because that's how it's done. And because completely missing their messages has to irritate them.

We have plenty of friends here, also, though, and that's more important and significant than the others.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

61. .

But in villages in the past, people had to get along with others for life, and it was very important for the wellbeing, even continued existence, of the village that even people who despised each other treated each other...not too badly. Real troublemakers could be banished.

Do you mean black people were run out of town? Because that's a thing that happened.

Here, I'm pleasant as if I don't even notice it because that's how it's done.

That's also one reason racism thrives there. So good job, I guess?

[BlueWI]

65. Good response.

Courtesy to racists has limited upside. For safety it's sometimes necessary, but for changing hearts and minds it has largely run its course, and it's definitely out of bounds for that strategy to be recommended for people of color.

Not Biden's best day to say what he did. And it's not DU's best day to defend it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

66. The excuses people make are staggering.

[NYMinute]

16. ...and....

scraping at the bottom of the barrel to search for anti-Biden screeds continues....

[BlueWI]

50. Desperation?

Do you mean due to all those primaries Biden has won?

It's a minimum standard to expect potential nominees not to name check James Eastland in discussions of civility.

To say the least.

[Autumn]

17. I'm pretty sure I know why Eastland didn't call Biden 'boy'. I also know what I think he

would have called Obama, one thing for sure it wouldn't have been 'son'.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

19. I'm not sure why he had to bring that up

As a matter of historical record he could have used better examples than Dixiecrats.

FDR wouldn't have got the New Deal passed without working with them. Carter wouldn't have got elected without them (he was term limited to run again for GA Governor but his popularity with rural white voters by 1974 was not high. They only turned out for him in 1976 because he was a native son).

Still doesn't warrant using them dixiecrats as an example of "the good ol' days of civility".

[Hortensis]

21. Apparently too much truth for some.

[marylandblue]

25. No too much tone deafness.

He could have used better, more recent, and more pertinent examples. Maybe some good bipartisan legislation he passed? He's proud a southern racist called him "son," rather than "boy." Is that some kind of achievement?

[Hortensis]

27. For trumpsters. We're both smarter and far more honest.

And shame on those who try to blast that illusion.

Biden is talking to that large mass of quiet Democrats who always somehow surprise over-partisan self deceivers at every election. Political forums are like religion. They can reinforce strengths or weaknesses.

[Autumn]

28. Your post is the most truth I have seen for some time.

Star Member Hortensis (31,143 posts)

27. For trumpsters. We're both smarter and far more honest.

And shame on those who try to blast that illusion.

[marylandblue]

33. It's been said Biden is a gaffe machine. This is a gaffe.

A bit too esoteric for most voters, and not on videotape, but one day soon, something like this will bite him bad, perhaps in the debates. It won't be pretty.

Don't take my word for it. Just watch and wait.

[Hortensis]

34. Well, think what you will, but maybe remember that

almost no Democrats are hanging around political forums and mining media for confirmation that some candidates are shits and some are great. The gaff line reminds me that Hillary was being called cold and distant, unable to connect, at this point, until even those inclined were forced to drop it. Wish I thought Biden wouldn't be giving ungenerous minds excuse to carry on. But this isn't it.

[marylandblue]

47. Huh? Mining media? I'm not looking to confirm anything.

I just see what I see. I follow links other people post and comment on them. That's all. What are you doing here?

[melman]

64. I think I'm the one that was supposedly media mining

For posting a story from the very obscure New York Times.


A story that is still the top result on twitter for "Joe Biden" over 13 hours later. Really took a lot of mining.

[Hortensis]

22. Southern conservative culture took over the Republican Party.

That's reality. The days are long gone when conservatives were badly split between the parties, southern segregationists despised Republicans and other Democrats only somewhat less than minorities, and reasonable people in both parties cooperated to keep that toxic faction mostly under control.

Those people -- energized and funded by religious right extremism and RW billionaires -- are what those we send to congress have to deal with these days. They shake hands because that's how people at work behave, but they never turn their backs on them.

[PDittie]

23. "slipping briefly into a Southern accent"

smh

[Hortensis]

29. :) He's from Maryland. More north or south is a matter of

location and local culture. Not long ago southern accents were common in rural areas.

Speaking of, have you noticed how ostentatiously heavy Republican politicians' accents have become? They're now an ideological signature.

[ehrnst]

26. To make a point about civility, he offers instances of those who were very, very, very different

being 'civil' to each other.

He doesn't say that they were right, only that they were civil to each other.

I guess if you think that people should spit on each other instead of trying to get something done that we elected them to do, then this is unacceptable.

Same philosophy that the Tea Party espoused.

[Hortensis]

30. :) But not at work. Mostly. Fairly often some brief YouTube

sensation will show some self-immolator acting out on the job.

Senate judiciary committee. (Even Lindsey Graham saves his special performances for the cameras.)

[marylandblue]

41. I'm all in favor of Senators being polite to each other.

I'm concerned about their cooperating which other, which seems to be lacking these days. That's why I think this personal example is misplaced. Tell us what you accomplished together, not how he used southernisms to make you feel welcome.

[Dream Girl]

51. His point is way too nuanced for a lot of folks.

[Demit]

31. Misty water-colored memories.

Joe Biden just wants to go back in time. He loved being in the Senate, that exclusive 100-member club.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. The thing is, in the 1973 speech, he said Eastland *did* call him boy.

Thread starts here:

Link to tweet

But in the past, Biden's habit has been to tell the story a bit differently, and less perplexingly: Eastland, Biden said in a 2017 speech in Alabama, "never called me 'senator.' He called me 'son.'" That makes a lot more sense, right? Good ol' boy Mississippi Senator takes Delaware kid under his wing, calls him "son." Cute, if you set aside the white supremacy.

The thing is, though, Eastland didn't call Biden "son." He called him—wait for it—"boy."

When I livetweeted that 1973 speech, one of the cringeworthy lines I quoted was this one: "I think the two party system is good for the South, and good for the Negro and good for the black in the South."

That line came in answer to a question about whether Southern senators' attitudes on race were evolving, and what Biden's relationship with those senators was. Here's his answer in full.

"I have had a number of conversations with the Southern senators. We get about forty to fifty requests a week to speak nationally ... and the places that we go, the places I've told my staff I want to go, by and large, is the South, because I'm most unfamiliar with the South. I've had the chance to speak in the South fairly frequently, and speak with the Southern senators. I think there is a change. They have leaders in the Senate, and leaders in the South like Fritz Hollings from South Carolina ... guys like Lawton Chiles...and you have Republicans alike coming up, it's not confined to a party. I think the two-party system, although my Democratic colleagues don't like me saying this, I think the two-party system is good for the South and good for the Negro. Good for the black in the South. And other than the fact that they still call me 'boy,' I think they've changed their minds."

That last bit was one of the biggest laughter and applause lines in the speech.

So Biden's been using variations on the "Southern segregationist senators don't call me 'Senator,' they call me 'boy' line since he first got to the Senate. One suspects that he switched over to 'son' as a concession to the fraught racial politics of the word 'boy.' But last night he got the two versions tangled up, and it became "they didn't call me 'boy,' they called me 'son.'"

[Politicub]

42. It's a rare double-dog gaffe.

Let’s hope these are few and far between.

On edit: how did someone livetweet a speech from 1973? Teletype?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. A meta-gaffe.

[Politicub]

45. The universe just collapsed into itself.

[thesquanderer]

48. re: "he got the two versions tangled up"

Yes... his speech has gotten sloppy, and messing up what he was trying to say seems like a sensible and likely explanation.

Related, considering the sensitivity of the word and the context of this presentation, this struck me when I watched his performance the other night... skip to 7:20

where he says "all those southern boys and women voted for it"

It's not unjustifiable (these "southern boys" who voted for it were white), but still... just don't. It didn't help that he gestured to the southern black man as he said it, though I'm sure the gesture came from the fact that it was his question he was answering. But Biden is not always good at avoiding the obvious minefields.

[ecstatic]

70. Interesting find. nt

[SouthernProgressive]

35. Biden is doing great.

Those filled with hate, opposition to everything, and limited thinking power will not understand this and try to attack Biden. Truly ignorant of them.

[tymorial]

37. oh christ.

[LanternWaste]

40. The newest shiny object to express concern over.

The four hour half life of this story doesn't give you guys much time to capitalize on and exploit this. I'm certainly looking forward to the forced creativity and imaginative efforts soon to come.

[oasis]

44. Winston Churchill's civility in dealing with Stalin really pissed me off.

[BeyondGeography]

52. Forget it, he's rolling

[irisblue]

53. When Connie Schultz corrects you in public, you have a problem.

Connie Schultz (@ConnieSchultz) Tweeted:
There is no punchline here, no emoji or funny meme to soften the harm of your words. That segregationist never called you “boy” because you are white. If you want to boast about your relationship with a racist, you are not who we need to succeed the racist in the White House. https://t.co/gULBDb9kMp

Link to tweet

Connie Schultz (@ConnieSchultz) Tweeted:
I add this: My first thoughts, after learning of Biden's comments, were of my black friends, neighbors and colleagues: How would they hear this? What do they deserve to hear from us? Soon enough, they were letting me know.

We're either allies, or we're not.

Link to tweet

[Skya Rhen]

62. As an AA, I am trying everything within me to get as worked up as those in Twitter World...

Sorry - I can't... Does not move me, one iota, and will not move the AA Community...if that is the result wished for...

We want the racist out of the White House while some others are doing their best to secure him a second term, by obsessing over nonsense.

[aidbo]

63. de Blasio's tweet.

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

68. de Blasio is right on this one nt

[oasis]

69. De Blasio is twisting the meaning of Biden's comments in order to

score cheap political points. I thought he was a better person than what he has revealed himself to be with this tweet.

[Kahuna7]

67. So what. Bernie extols FDR who was racist and Warren voted for

Ronald Reagan who was very racist towards Blacks. People on glass houses...

[Gothmog]

71. According to Symone Sanders, Biden did not praise a segregationist

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

72. James Clyburn is siding with Joe Biden on this issue

This is very nice to see https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/20/why-joe-biden-is-so-defensive-over-his-remarks-about-segregationists/?utm_term=.ab8bb7949ad8

Biden has powerful Democratic backers on this: The highest-ranking African American member of Congress, House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.), told reporters Wednesday he understands where Biden is coming from and that he, too, worked with people such as Strom Thurmond. Other black Democrats in Congress tried to frame Biden’s words in charitable ways.

“I think the sentiment is something that we all know in the legislative body — that you work with people you don’t agree with,” Rep. Cedric L. Richmond (D-La.), a co-chairman of Biden’s campaign, said.

The Clyburn comment in particular is helpful to Biden. If there’s one friend in Congress you want to make as a Democratic presidential candidate, it’s probably Clyburn. He rules South Carolina Democratic politics, and South Carolina is the first early voting state with a majority black Democratic primary voters. Biden and his opponents will be campaigning in South Carolina this weekend at Clyburn’s famous fish fry.

[treestar]

73. Who are you for?

and why? Do you think you will convince anyone to vote for that individual when they can't win on their own without trying to bring down another candidate?