Joe Biden Is One of the Most Tone-Deaf Politicians in the History of Representative Government

[mopinko]

from charlie pierce-

He paints the bullseye on his own self more artistically than anyone I've ever seen.

Wednesday is Juneteenth, the annual celebration held every 17th of June to commemorate the end of slavery in the state of Texas and, more generally, the decision by the nation, sealed in blood, that owning other human beings was no basis for a moral society. And what better way for a Democratic candidate for president in 20-freaking-19 to celebrate Juneteenth than to go before an audience of bankers and plutocrats and wax nostalgic for the days when you could "get things done" with segregationist monsters?

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28099882/joe-biden-poor-peoples-moral-action-congress-forum-speech/

no doubt someone will alert on this.
but we really need to speak the truth.
this is exactly how i feel about joe. we just cant have a candidate w such high negatives.
it's about more than beating twitler. it is about who we are.
we can do better than uncle joe.

[shanny]

1. SMDH

[TygrBright]

2. Which, if you think about it, is an amazing recommendation of him as a candidate...

...because if he can be polling these numbers EVEN AS HE DROPS BRICKS like a drunken hod-carrier, he's got to have a pretty potent appeal to the electorate, yes?

At least while he still has twenty-some primary opponents diluting the "not particularly attracted to Biden as a candidate" and the "prefer more progressive or more my-issue-focused candidates" potential voters.

Once the number of primary opponents is weeded down to just a couple, the negatives may start to trip him up a little more powerfully.

But for now, he seems to be riding the wave, so we'll see...

interestedly,
Bright

[thesquanderer]

125. re:"if he can be polling these numbers EVEN AS HE DROPS BRICKS...

...he's got to have a pretty potent appeal to the electorate, yes?"

I think it's because the electorate is not yet sufficiently tuned in to notice. As I basically said in another thread, I think the polls showing that he's the strongest against Trump are based on things like name recognition, his association with Obama, and memories of his more youthful self. When more people tune in to actually see and hear him these days, I think a lot of that support will evaporate.

[LanternWaste]

3. This gaff almost rises to the level of...

“When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto... You don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”

Well, okay-- while it doesn't rise to that level by any stretch of the rational mind, it *is* some the daily chum-in-the-water non-issue.

[Dream Girl]

74. Who said that?

[lunamagica]

78. Sanders

[Dream Girl]

80. Thought so.

[robbedvoter]

158. or "when you're white, they let you do it"

In his last 8 years as VP he didn't notice Rs are not friendly? Or is there some mysterious reason he'll do better with them than Obama? I wonder what is it?

[DonaldsRump]

4. Juneteenth is the 17th of June???? n/t

[hot2na]

48. Juneteenth is the 19th...No?

[LovingA2andMI]

70. Yes, its the 19th of June....

Biden just sunk his campaign with African-American Voters with this statement as a result. He's not Barack Obama and We Get That More and More By The Day!

[DonaldsRump]

75. Biden didn't say it; Charlie Pierce did in the Esquire piece cited

It's now been changed in the online article.

Seriously, Esquire, this was kind of basic...

[LovingA2andMI]

77. Try Again....

At a New York City fundraiser Tuesday night, Biden told donors he's reached across the aisle throughout his career. "I was in a caucus with James O. Eastland," Biden said, according to a pool report. "He never called me boy, he always called me son."

"Well guess what? At least there was some civility," Biden said, also pointing to a working relationship he forged with Georgia Sen. Herman Talmadge, another segregationist Democrat. "We got things done. We didn't agree on much of anything. We got things done. We got it finished. But today, you look at the other side and you're the enemy. Not the opposition, the enemy. We don't talk to each other anymore."

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734103488/democrats-blast-biden-for-recalling-civil-relationship-with-segregationists

[DonaldsRump]

81. No idea what you're talking about

My point was limited to the error in the Esquire article originally saying Juneteenth was on June 17. That's now mercifully corrected.

[LovingA2andMI]

82. Okay...

n/t...

[hughee99]

146. So while waxing poetic about the importance of Juneteenth, he didn't

Actually even get the day right? This reads a little like an article he wrote some time ago and was just waiting for some opportunity to work in details from a current event.

[stonecutter357]

5. lol fail , let's go Joe !

[SouthernProgressive]

6. If this horseshit is true as an overall thought...

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2019, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

We should just hand him the nomination right now. He is such a shit show yet is popular and leading by every measure? One of the most tone-deaf politicians in our history? That is some really stupid shit. I don't care who wrote it.

[samnsara]

36. so..are YOU going to vote for him if hes the dem nom???

[SouthernProgressive]

88. Biden? I might vote for him in the primary. NT

[awesomerwb1]

39. Bernie or bust bro?

[SouthernProgressive]

89. Is that what the author is? NT

[Perseus]

103. I think his popularity has more to do by the fact that he is known, but for the most part...

the electorate is not very smart, face recognition does it for a lot of them, and they have seen him for so long that he has become "family". It is the same as actors who show up on people's TV screen every night, many people start acting as if they know them, as if they are part of the family.

I would have to bet that many, outside of DU, who recognize Biden and are willing to vote for his nomination have very little idea of his political career besides the fact that he was VP in the Obama administration.

I would not give so much credit for those outside DU that support Biden right now, they will change course when republicans start the attacks, whether they are true or not.

I was really hoping Biden would not throw himself in the mix. I will vote for him, no doubt, if he is the nominee, but I think we have better candidates.

[mobeau69]

7. "He didn't call me boy, he called me son"

Good God!

[George II]

18. We also have these quotes, NOT from Joe Biden:

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama, who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012.

“Aren’t most of the people who sell the drugs African American?”

Good God!

[mobeau69]

32. We also have this quotes by Neil Kinnock and then, later, by you know who.

I was the first in my family to go to college.

My ancestors were coal miners.

[whathehell]

64. Huh?

An older man calling a younger man "son" is a racial slur now?...

Older white men use it with younger white men all the time.

[Politicub]

76. Boy is the demeaning slur when a white person uses it as a way to

demean black men.

Biden is essentially saying that the segregationists were so respectful that they called him the innocuous “son” rather than the sometimes racially-charged word “boy”.

In most situations, the word "boy" is not a problem. Used to describe an African American man, however, the word is troublesome. That's because historically whites routinely described black men as boys to suggest African Americans weren't on equal footing with them. Both during and after slavery, African Americans weren't viewed as full-fledged people but as mentally, physically, and spiritually inferior beings to whites. Calling black men "boys" was one way to express the racist ideologies of yesteryear.

https://www.thoughtco.com/terms-many-dont-know-are-racist-2834522

[whathehell]

140. I'm well aware of that, but we're talking about "son", not "boy".

One is demeaning and the other is not.

[emmaverybo]

153. Yes. Exactly what he meant, that he escaped the racist epithet, but still was put down. Son is not

what you call a fellow senator and by and large is used by old fashioned guys for young guys they
coach, students they mentor, etc.
Here’s the point: Biden is not a racist. He is not fond of racists.

[Gothmog]

160. I hate it when I am forced to agree with Morning Joe

Link to tweet

[stonecutter357]

8. Joe Biden Is a national hero !

[murielm99]

11. That would be hero.

Do you have spell check?

[mobeau69]

12. "Heroe" is an obsolete form of hero.

Apropoe?

[TheCowsCameHome]

19. It's a Dan Quayle-ism.

[mobeau69]

24. Very good!

[George II]

33. Yes:

[Baclava]

9. Joe will run his old timey campaign and snuggle up to the big money donors, appealing to the center

For some it doesnt matter what he says or does, hes good enough for them

[grantcart]

14. Just raised $ 30 million with an average @ $ 55. You might want to reconsider your reply

[SouthernProgressive]

16. "Truth to Power"

Requires neither honesty or consideration.

[samnsara]

35. the real question is: will you VOTE for joe if hes the nom??

....will ya?? huh? huh? huh?

[Baclava]

38. of course and i'll probably be one of the only ones going to vote, again

DU is such a hoot when anybody says anything against the status quo

[yaesu]

50. I will vote for any Dem candidate in the GE, but

a centrist candidate will not bring out enough votes to beat tRump. Lets hope whomever gets to the GE excites enough voter participation to beat the fascists.

[TwilightZone]

58. "a centrist candidate will not bring out enough votes"

Independents are the largest voting bloc in the US. While most of them lean one way or the other, they pretty reliably vote. No one is going to win without appealing to them, at least in part, as well as those on the left. There aren't enough of the latter to win.

[yaesu]

65. Independents can swing either way, cannot be counted on and are a waste of energy,

Democrats must stick with the base or they will lose far more voters than could ever be made up with independents. FDR never worried about independents & look how great he did, calling a fascist a fascist.

[brooklynite]

96. We've never won an election with just "the base" and the elusive "never bother to vote" contingent

[hedda_foil]

144. Independents are not now and never were centrists.

[MarcA]

87. +1,000 n/t

[samnsara]

123. ive never missed an election ever

[BannonsLiver]

44. The only thing that matters is winning.

Biden, Warren...a ham sandwich. It’s of no consequence to me as long as fat Donnie is gone.

[marylandblue]

63. Unfortunately, Trump will beat a ham sandwich, and I'm not so sure about Biden.

I already see how Trump would turn him into a punching bag.

I think Democrats don't understand Trump. I really don't. Sorry. Maybe you think you do, but you don't.

[Politicub]

83. I'm afraid that's the case, too.

Trump sows chaos and does it instinctually. Then he walks away after causing a fire while people fight amongst themselves with the house burning down behind them.

He is like a feral animal when it comes to staying in the spotlight and will do or say anything — and I do mean anything — to get attention.

He is comfortable with inciting mob violence and pardons scummy people that abuse others. He embraces war criminals, authoritarians, nazis and bigots. He has created concentration camps filled with migrant children.

We are up against something new. Traditional ways of campaigning will not work.

Obama is about the only person I can think of that could create the counter-movement that it will take to oust Trump. And it depresses me to think that since I want Trump and his movement to be decisively beaten.

We need someone to emerge as a moral leader that energizes people And causes them to imagine a better tomorrow.

Maybe it’s Biden. Maybe it’s Harris, Warren, Buttigieg or Beto. It could be Sanders. We could become smitten by Klobuchar. At this point, it’s not clear to me. I place no faith in these early polls.

[marylandblue]

143. I like Buttigieg because he is thinking in exactly these terms.

It's possible for someone else to become that moral leader, but Buttigieg is the only one to base his strategy on it.

[Politicub]

147. He has the X-factor this cycle

And that’s no small thing. I could see him leading a movement and I would want to be part of it.

[busterbrown]

91. Tell us why Dems. don't understand Trump..

We certainly understand the what Fascism is.
and we certainly understand how Dictators throughout history reeked havoc upon our world..

Trump is a dangerous, lying, ignorant, misogynist, racist asshole...
95 % of Dems would not disagree with this statement!!

[Perseus]

107. For one, I think people r misguided into thinking the buffoon is afraid or worried about Biden

He wants Biden, he knows he can ridicule, make up names, use Biden as a punching bag, and Biden will not counter. I believe he wants Biden to be the nominee, he is trying to fake that he is worried about Biden when he is not, that is his strategy.

[mtnsnake]

122. You are 100% correct

Trump is playing this out like he doesn't want Biden, but Biden is exactly who he DOES want. I cannot believe how many people are falling for Trump's act. Even Fox News is making believe that Biden means trouble for Trump. When Fox News runs a poll showing Biden beating Trump by 10 points, you know damn well that Fox News is doing their very best to push Biden right down our throats.

[mobeau69]

134. I totally agree.

Biden is a rich target for trump and he fucking knows it. IMO, Buttigieg instinctively knows how to handle turds like trump. He would destroy him with precision; never raising his voice or resorting to schoolyard taunts. Just a cool, calm intelligient smackdown. Pete has a gift for language that Biden can't come close to emulating.

[marylandblue]

124. policub got right in post 83.

You think bring a racist, lying, ignorant asshole is some sort of an explanation for his behavior and that if you point this out enough and exchange barbs, people will realize and the non-racist non-assholes will turn against him.

But that's not it all. He is an asshole because it is a strategy that he uses to get what he wants. He uses it because it works. And people go for it because it gets them what they want, or at least they think it will.

Part if the asshole strategy is to stir crap up all the time. The more the better. It works because sometimes people give in just to keep you happy. Other times, they are so busy countering your BS, you can just take what you want. Part of the BS is to always counterattack. If they call you a crook, you call them a crook to create a huge fog of confusion while people argue who us the real crook and the facts get lost among the lies. We might notice this, but many don't, and they can't figure it out, so some people say "they are both crooks, but one crook promised me a better job, so I'll go with that."

If you understand all that, you see why it's not about beating Trump at all. It's about giving people what they want. Find out what they want. They want jobs? Give them a real jobs program and explain it in clear simple language. Trump will throw up his BS. You say, "Thanks for the diversion, I'm talking about jobs."

So combating Trump is not about experience or normalcy, it's about focusing, speaking clearly and giving people what they want. Whoever does this best is the best candidate.

[BannonsLiver]

145. I don't think you have any more insight than anyone else.

That’s evidenced by you missing the point entirely. My point wasn’t that I think a ham sandwich could beat trump, but rather I’ll vote for Warren, Biden, any of the others, as long as it results in a win. You want style points. I just want the fucker gone and I don’t really give a shit as far as which Democrat makes that happen.

[marylandblue]

150. I got the point. Check. All you want is Trump gone. That's the problem.

You can't just be against Trump. If your candidate's sole virtue is that he or she is better than Trump, then your candidate will lose because Trump will tear that candidate apart. Trump wants it to be a personal battle between two people who simply trade barbs and accusations to prove who is worse. That's his territory and he wins on it. Like wrestling a pig in mud, you just get muddy yourself.

To defeat Trump, you must have a purpose that is not about Trump. You must have a story to tell that isn't about Trump or because of Trump. You must have a candidate is running to do something. Warren demonstrates this quality best. She is all about wealth inequality. She has fought for this for years, and would be running on it even if Trump were not in the picture. As long as she maintains her single-minded purpose, she can win. It doesn't matter what he does because she controls the narrative. If she lets him control the narrative, as with the Indian BS, she loses.

Biden's story is all about not being Trump. At least that's the story so far. I wish instead he would tell us what he would do that another Democrat would not. Then he'd sound strong.

[Magoo48]

62. Agreed. Massive challenges ahead means good enough will not do.

Joe, lost me when he dropped a pale of wish-wash on the Climate Crisis, arguably the biggest issue humanity’s ever faced and certainly the most immediate issue for the foreseeable future.

[oldsoftie]

100. The truth matters though.

[George II]

10. Keep trying.

[Gothmog]

13. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available

[Ron Green]

40. ...But he may not be the BEST

electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available.

[Perseus]

110. I don't think he will be when the repub attacks begin

We need someone who will not play politics, who will not be afraid to call the buffoon and the rest of the republicans out. When I see that from Joe I will believe it.

I am still bothered by the way he spoke to Joy Reid when she asked the question about McConnell, how he got so close to her in that menacing manner, I could see Joy was bothered and maybe a little intimidated. Joe has a way of putting his foot in his mouth, the campaign is young and he has already done it a few times. You cannot give so much ammunition to republicans, they are not good at governing, but they are very good at trash talk, fake news the opposition.

[thesquanderer]

129. I hope we have someone more electable, because I'm not confident about Biden beating Trump.

Did you see the video from Poor People’s Campaign Presidential Forum?

Here was my response to that.

And if you didn't see it, you can see the video I'm talking about in the OP of that thread.

[jalan48]

15. Can Centrism and Appeasement stop Fascism? Trump was using Fascist rhetoric in his speech last

night. It's what we are up against. Hearkening back to the days of reaching across the aisle to get things done is not only tone deaf-it's dangerous. Let's start describing who these Republicans really are-not waxing nostalgic about the good old days that are long gone.

[yaesu]

52. Centrism and Appeasement will not stop fascism, history has shown us that. nt

[MarcA]

90. Agreed. Google von Hindenburg. n/t

[Turin_C3PO]

17. Very over the top.

[pazzyanne]

20. ... and yet Joe is leading the pack by wide margins.

Go figure. Apparently there are a lot of people who appreciate what Joe can bring to the fight.

[thesquanderer]

126. Please see post #125

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287155851#post125|]

[IndyOp]

21. mo - my 2 cents: Your point may be reasonable. IMHO, calling him "uncle joe" is not respectful.

Criticize - fine, if it's fair. I didn't see Biden's speech so I don't know if Pierce's criticism is fair.

Nicknames? No, because they diminish the Democratic Party by association.

Joe Biden has done a lot of good as a Democrat - Senator and VP.

I don't think he is the right guy for right now, either.

(Edited: I, like an idiot, once again replied before clicking the link and reading the article. I returned to add "if it's fair", etc.)

[delisen]

41. The "Uncle Joe" nickname seems to be used by many of his supporters

I don't care for any nicknames but often it seems these are coming from campaigns or encouraged by the a candidate's campaign as they try to influence how they want the candidate to be perceived by voters.

[IndyOp]

61. Okay. If the campaign gave him the nickname, then it's fine...

to call him by the nickname.

Not a nickname I would give him, sounds a little too much like “Uncle Tom” to me, but I am weird so probably no one else will think of that.

[mopinko]

92. i meant it affectionately. i dont hate him.

i just think his baggage is piling up. i felt the same way about hillary, even tho i love her.
i dont want a rerun of 16, where our candidate walked into the arena bogged down by a lot of crap. and joe's crap is more real than hillary's ever was.

[demmiblue]

23. Could you be more obvious?! Buh-bye.

[IndyOp]

25. Oooh!!! I wish I'd seen the post to which you responded first... I am fantasizing about

popularizing the phrase:

VLAD, IS IT YOU?!?!

At DU, but also on Facebook, etc - we have to keep reminding ourselves of the people paid to do this by Vlad and/or anyone else who wants to disrupt.

[George II]

27. "It's a Vlad, Vlad, Vlad, Vlad World"

[demmiblue]

29. Unbelievably, it is still there. n/t

Edit: it disappeared right after I posted this!

[George II]

26. Are you lost?

[lpbk2713]

30. Not really. Taking pot shots at the top two or three of our poll leaders.

Their post counts never make it out of the single digits.

[emulatorloo]

28. Rather than posting hit jobs on Biden, tell us positive things about Senator Harris

That would be a lot more helpful to DU’s undecides.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

53. Exactly! How can she win PA Wi MI NC NV TX...and don't forget you have to build a 15% lead

Over trump to offset rigging by TRussia

[Perseus]

113. You don't want to hear things that repubs will attack Biden on?

We have to learn about the good and bad of our candidates to make a sound decision, that is my humble opinion.

[emulatorloo]

114. I don't want to feed Republicans their talking points. I do my own research on our candidates.

[Perseus]

116. But like it or not, this is a forum for Democrats to share ideas, thoughts, facts

I do want to hear someone's opinion on why they may think the person I support won't do, I will read it, analyze it and then draw my own conclusion, but silence will not do to educate anyone. Republicans don't need us to find fuel, they will find it, and create it themselves,so we might as well share information to help educate each other.

[emulatorloo]

118. Yep, Share ideas is what we do here. My idea is we don't need to tear our candidates apart

in order to share ideas about them.

Have a great day!

[loyalsister]

31. A few days before he was at the poor people's forum

Telling poor "you have no dignity" if you can't provide for your children.
Umm no. Political leadership has no decency when they use their power to perpetuate the conditions that make it difficult to survive individually, much less provide for families.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

55. Completely agree

Sometimes I wonder what the people here would say if Warren or Sanders said some of the things Biden has said. Talking up working with segregationists isn't something to commend. Talking down to poor families trying to scrape by is just wrong too.

[George II]

57. One of those two has said things like that, and worse.

[NYMinute]

34. Charlie Pierce the Bernie supporter strikes again

Here are the few of his past gems --

I'm a Cynic, and I Voted for Bernie Sanders
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a42499/i-voted-for-bernie/

Bernie Sanders Is the Architect of 2020's Democratic Playing Field

Link to tweet

?lang=en

The Bernie Protesters Outside the Gates Won't Change Anything, But I Respect Them
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a47023/bernie-protesters-outside/

Did he get a call for help from David Sirota?

[Sugarcoated]

56. Ahh

Got it.

[KPN]

66. So you agree with or are at least okay

with Biden’s remarks to that audience?

[NYMinute]

86. What Biden said and what is spun in that piece are two different things

Portraying Biden as a racist is patently disingenuous.

Biden was only saying "I can have congenial relationships with the worst of them" -- he didn't say he agreed with their racism or politics.

I personally have a lot of republican friends and I have a cordial relationship with them. That doesn't mean I agree with them.

[Voltaire2]

106. Nobody here has portrayed him as a racist.

Just a tone deaf gaffe-factory. Sort of a problem for the theory that he is our only hope.

However, in context, he was working with the overt racist Eastland on anti-busing legislation. So there is that. All in the past. Perhaps joe should stop dredging it up.

[mtnsnake]

108. Trying to turn the tables from the subject of this thread onto Sanders is about as feeble as it gets

[Perseus]

115. But that is actually true...

I am not a fan of Bernie Sanders, but I will vote for anyone who takes the nomination.

Like Sanders, or not, if one is objective then one must recognize that Bernie Sanders did change the discussion within the Democratic party, he came out with ideas that no Democrat had dared to talk about before.

I would think that a different quote from Pierce would be needed to prove that point, I feel he spoke the truth on that one.

[Celerity]

117. for a Bernie supporter he certainly comes to Warren's (and Beto's) aid more than most current ones

(NON DU) ever would.

Tiger Beat on the Potomac magicked up the lamest kind of gotcha.

Politico Just Reverted to Its Worst Incarnation in Pursuit of Elizabeth Warren's Tech Hypocrisy

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a26798319/politico-elizabeth-warren-tech-hypocrisy-facebook-amazon/

Regulars here at the shebeen have noted that I rarely use Politico's traditional nom de Blog any more. This is because, since the Founding Geniuses moved on to Axios, and especially since the birth of Politico The Magazine, the product has improved dramatically. But I've kept the appellation on the shelf in case it's ever needed and, alas, on Tuesday, it was.

Ladies and gentlemen, Tiger Beat On The Potomac returns.

The Massachusetts Democrat, who is powering her presidential campaign with a bold proposal to break up the likes of Amazon, Google and Facebook, in September accepted a $2,700 contribution from Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook’s chief operating officer. But Sandberg, whose donation went unnoticed at the time, was just the biggest name from Silicon Valley to give to the senator: Warren took at least $90,000 from employees of Amazon, Google and Facebook alone between 2011 and 2018.

This is Beto O'Rourke and the Oil Money all over again. If a guy pumping gas at a BP station in Flyspeck, Montana sends 200 bucks to your campaign, you are in the pocket of Big Oil. It is the laziest form of campaign gotcha in which any publication can indulge.

Now, Warren has put the trust-busting message front and center in her presidential campaign. In a blog post last week, which she repeatedly referred to at the tech industry conference South by South last weekend in Austin, Texas, Warren called for unwinding Facebook’s acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram; Amazon’s consumption of Whole Foods and Zappos; and Google’s takeovers of Waze, Nest and DoubleClick. Warren later confirmed that her plan would apply to Apple, the biggest player in tech and one of the world’s biggest companies. "Either they run the platform or they play in the store," she said over the weekend. "They don't get to do both at the same time."

Ready for it to get worse? Here goes.

At the same time, Warren hasn’t weened herself off of tech employee money — or their services. Warren’s campaign, for example, continues to buy ads through Facebook, and her books are still on Amazon.

Is this supposed to be hypocrisy? If Senator Professor Warren's antitrust plan is put into effect, and if it works, then nobody will have to buy ads on Facebook or sell books on Amazon because they will have a choice of venues in which to do both. That's always been sort of the whole point of breaking up monopolies.

snip



here is his Esquire archive (pro-tip, he is not shilling for Bernie, he is going after Rump and his fucked up agenda/outcome/penumbra of fucksticks a shit tonne)


https://www.esquire.com/author/7884/charles-p-pierce/



your smearing Pierce as some Sirota-style stooge is outrageous

[samnsara]

37. are you going to vote for him if hes the dem nom?

[marylandblue]

43. Do you really think anyone on DU will say no?

Why do we need to continually reassure each other we'll all vote for the Democrat?

The real question is: should he be the nominee? And on that we all differ. I don't think he's electable, whatever that really means.

[mtnsnake]

105. + 1000

[BlueWI]

132. +10,000

Talk about a passive aggressive purity test - it's only when certain candidates are vetted that the question of are you voting for the nominee comes up.

[Lordquinton]

131. Well...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287155696#post12

[marylandblue]

133. Doh! I didn't expect that. Damn.

[mopinko]

93. of course i will.

i will vote for him, work for him, and donate.
but i would really rather work for a candidate that i dont have to defend all over.
and as you can see right here in this thread, there is much to chew on.

[Lordquinton]

127. Purity tests already?

[gtar100]

42. You'll get the same responses as on every other thread like this... dismissive

He's polling so well so any criticism is.... well, you just wouldn't understand because really he's just awesome. Stop over-thinking it and you will see it too!

My take... what you said - we can do better. I would vote for him and certainly would feel better about the world with Biden as president. But he doesn't have the progressive background I really would like to see in the presidency.

[BannonsLiver]

45. We've reached the "anything goes" portion of the race on DU

I can think of no other reason why this shitty OP wasn’t hidden.

[Baclava]

46. I just figured this would be the hottest thread of the day and I wanted IBL, lol

I'm so bad

[BannonsLiver]

49. You're not the OP so zero fucks to give here.

[Baclava]

60. Well somebody alerted on me so i'm making some noise, lol

People so sensitive, lol

[BannonsLiver]

138. Oh boy, somebody "making some noise" on an internet forum.

That's literally never happened before.

Is there some kind of medal?

[BannonsLiver]

47. Then that candidate needs to MAKE A FUCKING CASE

The people who whine about Biden have other options. Maybe instead of mewling about Biden they should work to improve their own candidates standing. Or is actually taking part too much to ask?

[oldsoftie]

98. Apparently so.

[BeyondGeography]

51. Forget it, he's rolling

[KPN]

54. Yeah, I think Biden is going to see his lead in the polls evaporate at least among Democrats.

He has too much history and is playing the game as if past rules of the game are actually relevant to both sides today. They aren't. On the GOP side, there are no rules other than "by any means possible".

He's officially off my list of people I am leaning toward in the primary -- now down to three definites and 2 maybe: Buttigieg, Harris, Warren and Inslee, Sanders.

[redstateblues]

152. None of whom could win FL and the rust belt states

[hibbing]

59. It is also a reminder of just how long he has been around n/t

[Skya Rhen]

67. Yet he is WINNING!!! I'm loving every single one of these polls - Go Joe!!!

[gibraltar72]

68. Just leaves me cold.

I think he is lost in a world that no longer exists.

[CentralMass]

69. It is a conundrum. He has a history of decisions made at the time that don't seem to square with

his 2019 self.

[ucrdem]

71. LOL, "held every 17th of June" equals total humiliating fail

If he can't be bothered to look up something that basic his agenda is not just showing, it's releasing a Bhopal plume of toxic stink.

[brer cat]

142. Speaking of toxic stink,

"held every 17th of June" was Pierce's comment, not a Biden quote.

[ucrdem]

148. Yes, Pierce is the stinker.

[brer cat]

149. I understand they corrected it online.

But even some here thought it was Joe.

[mr_liberal]

72. People here may not like it, but this will play very well in the GE that he can work with

anybody. And is willing to talk with anybody. It sounds like something MLK would have said.

Since the Hyde flip flop Biden has been on a roll. I think that woke him up to not pandering to the left. He's looking like a very strong GE candidate, if he can get through the primaries.

[trev]

101. With anybody?

I don't think there's anybody in the Republican Party who will work with him--anymore than they did with Obama.

How will he handle that, do you think? (This isn't meant to be a snark; I'd really like an honest answer.)

[mr_liberal]

121. Your policies have to be popular with voters then that puts political pressure on the other side.

That's the only way to get anything done if you don't have majorities in both houses.

This is also political and meant to appeal to swing voters who like this kind of bipartisan sentiment, especially coming after Trump. It's about trying to win the general election.

[emmaverybo]

156. They worked with him. Obama got legislation through on a bipartisan level by making Biden

his proxy in negotiations. Not everyone was happy, but some things got done, like averting a fiscal crisis and gov shutdown over the debt ceiling.

[yuiyoshida]

73. Most tone deaf? Wouldn't that be

Trump?

[Voltaire2]

119. Actually Trump is tuned in to his maggots

[samnsara]

79. i am voting for Joe...

[Sparko55]

84. GLAD THIS THREAD MADE IT - DEM PRIMARIES DON'T PERMIT WHAT THEY ASSESS AS DEM BASHING

Just saying.

If Democrats can't tolerate legitimate critiques of the candidates for fear of hurting the snowflakes among the crowd, we are truly lost for another election cycle.

People warned in 2016 that after Hilary got walloped in Wisconsin in the Primary losing 71 of 72 counties to Bernie, and then never to be seen again in the state - that that was a losing formula for victory in November - and the response was CRICKETS. And she lost Wisconsin.

Now it seems the Forum doesn't want any sort of analysis of the candidates and their positions or history. No, just paper over, pretend to be GOP ("never speak a negative word about our candidates&quot and go forward in the battle. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

If most people on DU think anything can be done with Republicans, think again. It was devastating for the Obama administration, and, lest we forget to the B. Clinton administration with Newt over the House.

As someone once noticed, if you are in the middle of the road you get hit from both directions.

The trick seems to be to post up some opinion piece - and that's okay, but original thought is banished.

Good luck putting together a winning candidate if you can't do the basic comparisons.

[MarcA]

99. Agreed. This should be posted as its own discussion thread. n/t

[Perseus]

120. Thank you, well said

That has been my fear, that we become like the repubs where if you don't follow the party line, do not repeat things like they want you to, then your post is taken out. We are liberals, we say and we listen and we learn from each other.

[FakeNoose]

94. Charlie Pierce STFU! Don't tell us about tone-deafness please!

[JustAnotherGen]

95. I don't see the problem

Trump always talks about his 'black'.


So - is this really an issue?
Is Sanders liking Democratic Socialism?
Is Warren for being a GOP until the 90's?
Is anything any of our candidates say or do as bad as that traitorous piece of shit taint wart in the white house?

No - I didn't think so.

PS - 45 says the Central Park Five should go back to jail. They aren't equivalent.

One 'thing' is a fucking monster maggot (Trump) and one is a fallible human being (Biden).

Take your pick.

[oldsoftie]

97. Yeah, lets assign whatever meanings we want to actions people take. Horseshit.

Nitpick every little thing.
Are you looking deeper into Sen Harris's backround for negatives??

[Perseus]

102. "no doubt someone will alert on this."

I hope not, when you speak the truth it must be accepted as such, one should only be called out when not speaking the truth, when insulting other people, when being indecent, otherwise we become like the republicans who cannot fall off the party line, they are Lemmings, and it would be tragic for DU to become that.

You either like a candidate or you don't, that is your prerogative and one should be able to have an opinion, that is why Democrats are called "Liberals", we listen, and we are listened to without repercussions.

And...I am with you on Joe Biden. One reason is that I believe he will falter during the debates because he likes to be liked, and he may believe he can get republicans on his side, although he was not successful at it while being VP. Republicans do want Biden as the nominee, they know he will not attack them as they deserve to be attacked, and they have so much ammunition on him that even the good stuff he has done they will turn it around to make him look bad. One more thing, Biden has a knack for opening his mouth and getting in trouble, and republicans will run with it at full speed. I believe the Democratic party needs a nominee republicans, and the buffoon, will fear and that is not Biden.

[ehrnst]

109. The GOP already fears him.

He's attacked more than any other Dem candidate.

[Perseus]

111. I think they do it on purpose because they want Biden to be the nominee

They are not afraid of Biden, they have so much on him that he will be easier to bash than any of the other candidates. I am not buying their act, and Biden is already talking about "working with them"...please...when will he learn? The only time they "will work with him" is when he agrees to things that benefit the republicans, and no one else. Why didn't he bring the republicans to the negotiating table when he was VP? He had eight years to work on it.

[ehrnst]

112. That doesn't make sense.

If that was the case, then they really, really, really wanted Hillary to be the candidate.

And we know that's not true.

[MBS]

104. Charlie Pierce is one of the most astute political commentators out there

and, even when I might not agree 100% with his particular take on the topic of the day, I always take his POV seriously.
Personally, I think that the general arc of his argument here has merit. Even if you don't, don't dismiss him out of hand. Charlie's smart; he knows stuff. It's worth paying attention to what he has to say.

Having read many of the comments on this thread, I'll offer my take on his politics and other aspects of his persona:
1.To reiterate my initial comments, Pierce is a knowledgeable, razor-sharp, and insightful guy, and his analysis should not be dismissed out of hand. He has been eloquent and absolutely spot on in diagnosing the dangers that Trump and his Republican henchmen are posing to our democracy.
2. To push back against some of the remarks upthread, Charlie's politics is by no means a "Bernie bro." For one thing, his views cannot be summarized by a simple check-box. Like many of us, his opinions reflect a mix of idealism and pragmatic understanding of, mixed with at least occasional frustration with, the workings of Democratic Party politics. His cynicism, when it surfaces, is the kind of cynicism that comes out of the mouth of a frustrated or despairing idealist. Depending on the issue at hand, you might see different parts of his persona floating to the top. For instance:
•While I think that he was at least somewhat sympathetic to Bernie (or at least the issues raised by Bernie) in the 2016 primary, he was straightforwardly supportive of HRC in the general election.
•Although he's been showing impatience with congressional Democrats on the impeachment issue lately (frankly, I'm impatient and anxious myself), he's been a strong supporter of Nancy Pelosi, and fiercely defended the importance of her savvy and experience when Tim Ryan and Seth Moulton were mounting campaigns to challenge her leadership several years ago.
•He is an admirer of Sen. Warren (who represents his home state) and her campaign to deal with income inequality, etc, but I don't know whether he's specifically backing her presidential bid (I haven't been reading him as often as usual in the last few months, but, for whatever it's worth, I think he's still watching and observing the candidates, and has not necessarily made anything close to a choice).
•He is from Massachusetts, with intimate knowledge of the machinations of Democratic party (and Republican) politics in that state and nationally. (His pieces on Scott Brown were especially delicious).
•Raised as a Catholic, with a Jesuit college education (Marquette) and an uncle who's a Jesuit priest, he also can be relied upon for astute analysis of the doings of the Vatican (he admires Pope Francis) and the Boston Archdiocese. (Needless to say, he was onto the Boston Archdiocese sex scandals from Day 1).
•He went to college in Milwaukee (Marquette ); I've assumed that it is for that reason that he quickly cued into the horrors of Scott Walker and his destruction of the state of Wisconsin, also from Day 1. (Walker is a Marquette graduate, and Charlie's pieces on Walker were especially wicked on that subject). ,

[mopinko]

136. i wouldnt have posted it if it were pretty much anyone else.

aside from how much i just enjoy his writing, and he is quite the wordsmith, his insights are always worth hearing.
if charlie is saying it, many are thinking it.

[MBS]

139. yup- agreed.

and I love his writing, too.

[bullwinkle428]

161. Fantastic post - a brilliant, and incredibly accurate summary of a

multitude of Charlie's views.

DU needs way more of this kind of nuanced and detailed discussion.

[MBS]

165. Gosh,, you made my day.

Thanks!

[samnsara]

128. stop it

[demmiblue]

135. I wonder why you keep kicking this thread if you don't like it.

[ecstatic]

137. As already noted, the writer has his dates wrong. Also, we will need MONEY

to be victorious next fall. Lots and lots of money. Have you heard how much money dump is hauling in?

[mopinko]

141. i just want to say this-

i found this thread rewarding.
we need to have real conversations about our candidates, and i am glad that things stayed pretty civil. points were made and taken.
i think it is important for those of us who will end up knocking doors and talking to people who arent political junkies to have these conversations, and know how to answer people's concerns.

there are plenty of people in my life who count on me to know the scoop. du gives me that scoop to share w them.
i am sure i am not the only one.

i love this place.

[napi21]

151. I really think you're reading things into what Joe said that weren't meant to be.

Joe said he disagreed with those Senators on almost everything. He intended for people to realize he could negotiate with the opposition and still come to agreement on some issues. The Pubs in both houses now refuse to even talk to the Dems. McConnel said he would not eve4n bring any Dem. bills to the floor.

Why can't you see the comment for what it was intended to be?

[mopinko]

154. it just smacks of living in the past.

and it isnt the first bit of stupid.

[MadDAsHell]

155. Can't vote for a racist or someone who loves racists. nt

[coeur_de_lion]

157. You seem so concerned

That Biden is tone deaf. You still gonna be so concerned when trump defeats another dem candidate?

I don’t care at all about any candidate’s aura or record. I care only that they defeat trump.

Whoever I think can beat him, that’s who I will vote for.

To be dissing ANY democratic candidate on DU right now to me is sheer stupidity.

Circular firing squad.

Don’t be so concerned about who is more progressive. Be concerned about who can win.

[mopinko]

163. i'm not concerned. we will win. honestly, i think all our candidates can beat him.

i dont really think who we pick makes that much difference.
he will either be so beaten and bloodied by 11/20 that a ham sandwich can beat him, or he would have consolidated enough power to beat anyone we put up.

of all the reasons to vote for biden, thinking he is the only one that can beat trump holds the least water w me.

[coeur_de_lion]

166. I don't think he's the only one

Just the most likely. And so sorry I am not interested in taking chances.

We thought Hillary was a shoe-in. With the Russians help trump could steal it.

We need a landslide. Polling favors Biden right now.

If that changed so would my vote. But not until then.

So sorry with all due respect it would be just begging for defeat to get cocky now. It would be the height of stupidity.

The repubs are determined to hold on to power by any means. We know they will cheat lie and steal. Even if they were honest you know trump will steal any way he can. I'm sure putin already has a plan to steal the next election to help trump.

No room for error. Not even the slimmest margin.

[Gothmog]

159. I disagree

I hate it when I am forced to agree with Morning Joe

Link to tweet

[IronLionZion]

162. I feel like Obama wouldn't have chosen him for VP

if he was so bad. This is blatant pandering to a certain type of voter that Biden supporters explicitly and repeatedly promise to win away from Trump. Biden is going after whites in swing states like North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, etc. and the factory workers in PA, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin.

And every white Dem just assumes nonwhites are obligated to vote for the Dem nominee, ride or die, literally people die because of GOP policies. But white racists get coddled to win their votes because they have some options in life.

[bluewater]

164. K&R