Biggest loser tonight was Bernie...

[Drunken Irishman]

Biggest loser was Bernie. He needed to find a way to blunt Warren's momentum and he utterly failed. He may fall behind Harris and Pete after tonight.

[aaaaaa5a]

1. I agree. Others did poorly but had nothing to lose.

Warren>Sanders

[Bradshaw3]

2. I think it was Gillibrand

But she didn't have much support to lose.

[dchill]

8. From your keypad to God's earbuds!

[Bradshaw3]

10. Ha, good line

And I'm an atheist.

[dchill]

12. Thanks. (Me too.)

[LeftInTX]

70. I think Kirsten did well.

Hubby liked her.
But she has baggage.

[IluvPitties]

100. She, Bernie and Eric were obnoxious.

[George II]

109. Yes, and I like Swalwell. He's just out of his element.

[rufus dog]

3. but he has Russian money

Fuck him, and I voted for him in the CA primary in 2016.

[SergeStorms]

59. And now he'll want to...

destroy the Democratic party because of it. I can hear the excuses and accusations already....... Bernie's "scorched earth" policy.

[leftieNanner]

4. Agree

Bernie didn't get it done.

[tishaLA]

5. Well, Andrew Yang, too

But certainly also the junior senator from VT

[TheFarseer]

94. The freedom dividend idea fell flat

"So people get $1000 every month so they can spend it on a VAT tax" - ouch!

[George II]

107. Yang was okay when he got a chance to speak, which wasn't often....

....but he's not presidential caliber.

[RainCaster]

6. He already lost me when he declared no loyalty to the DNC

[NBachers]

51. He lost me way before the booing of John Lewis and Hillary Clinton at the Convention.

[redstatebluegirl]

102. That was horrible!

His people at the convention and the meetings leading up to it were beyond anything I had ever seen in 40 plus years working with the party. They were willing to elect Trump to "make a point" and "blow up the system". Then when they booed John Lewis I lost it.

[onetexan]

7. second that - the angry uncle once again. It's getting old.

[nolabear]

9. He just let the air out whenever he spoke.

It’s as though he’s on a different planet. Wall St. One per cent.

[sheshe2]

26. Yep...

Same mantra. Rinse repeat.

[Blue_true]

67. Bernie is basically a one trick pony, in a good way.

He sees income and wealth inequality really well, but he has lots of blind spots beyond that.

[George II]

124. I wonder why no one mentioned last night that in 1974 he was against school busing.

[Blue_true]

127. George. One of the sad realities is forced busing was more of an issue in the north.

Yes, there were virulent racist southerners, but those southerners tended to be well off financially. The mass of White southerners were are still are mostly poor working class White folk, they could not and can not afford White flight, so they live near whoever is near them. I have tried to point out the reality of busing for school integration in the south, there was more busing to maintain segregated schools.

Bernie's reality in New York and Vermont was likely different, there Whites did run away from living around minorities (though the kids and grandkids have actively been reversing that trend by moving back to cities). Bernie and Joe are creatures of their time on busing, that is the reality. I have tried to point out to people my reality on busing and I believe much of the south was similar, but so far it fell on deaf ears.

I won't hit either Bernie or Joe on their past versus busing, I just want them to explain why and how they have changed. I can see that Joe is attuned to social equality issues, but his performance in taking on Harris last night left a lot to be desired.

[George II]

110. I wish I could remember the question, but he was asked something totally unrelated....

....to healthcare, and within seconds was going on about "Medicare for All".

[betsuni]

120. When he was asked what he would do if Roe v. Wade was gone, he talked about Medicare for All.

That was probably it.

[George II]

122. That was it. It was an irrelevant answer to the question, zooming right back to his talking points.

[betsuni]

123. As always.

[R B Garr]

114. Yes, same thing over and over, not dealing with the

political realities, just drumming up anger. So sick of it.

[grantcart]

11. +1

[NYMinute]

13. Why was he yelling so much?

The decibel level was ... well .. deafening.

[Hekate]

44. Bernie's windmilling arms almost took Joe's eye out! Joe gave him such a look at one point...

...and it really was about how close Bernie got to his face. SMH

[George II]

108. Harris gave him a look, too, and almost pushed his hand away but she resisted.

[LiberalFighter]

23. He is always yelling.

As a severely hearing impaired person it bothers the hell out of me.

[Cha]

47. That's all I saw about him on twitter..

that he was yelling too much and they didn't like it.

[Eustace is Useful]

77. Desperation

He can feel it slip-sliding away, and is overcompensating.

[Blue_true]

68. He has a naturally booming voice. nt

[NurseJackie]

89. No he doesn't.

He has a normal voice too. He can control it and use his "inside voice" when the circumstances require it. This wasn't a rally.

[NYMinute]

97. lol

A viking hat and costume and he could be in opera

[emmaverybo]

104. 😂 LoL

[yardwork]

14. Bernie's message is tired and overly simplistic.

"We must destroy corporations" is, frankly, ridiculous.

[tinrobot]

30. "We need a revolution. Tens of millions of people..."

That's your plan?

Right.

[Still In Wisconsin]

63. Sanders has never had a plan.

He's a wannabe Che Guevara.

[NurseJackie]

90. Well-stated, you! Excellent!

[PatrickforO]

48. What we need to 'destroy,' or overturn, which is a much better word,

is the primacy of the shareholder doctrine. If we force CEOs of publicly held companies to consider the worker, the consumer and the environment on an equal footing with the shareholder, then we would solve many of the problems that are plaguing us.

But, yeah, Bernie came across as a bit simplistic, and I'm just not a big Biden fan. I'd still support either as our nominee, of course, but I'm very energized by Harris, and Warren. I still like Pete, Booker and Castro. Those actually are my top five after this.

[The Figment]

50. Bernie reminds me of

A lot of 60's hippies that I have been fortunate (or unfortunate) to meet in real life...

Wavy Gravy
Fast Eddie
Aaron Kay
Dana Beale
Rock Scully
Vernon Supreme

It's always "The Military Industrial Complex" or "The Big Banks" or "Big Pharma" or "The One Percent" or "Wall Street" not to say that these aren't a big problem but they are not the only problems that we have.
Hey Bernie Where's the foriegn policy,the battle over the appointment of federal judges that will affect policy and law for the next three decades, I could go on for an hour but ya'll get the idea.

[DemocracyMouse]

61. Bernie's actually right. Corporate concentrations of power like we see today...

have no place in a democracy.

My father, a debate coach, would say that many here on DU are complaining about Bernie's style, and not really addressing his various points. He's managed to get corporations and the 1% into mainstream discourse and for that I am grateful. Been waiting a LONG time since Reagan and his "trickle down" voodoo for someone to say the emperor has no clothes.

In the meantime, I rather like Warren's proposals for dealing with the problems Bernie has raised to prominence.

[GreenPartyVoter]

103. I very much agree with your take!

[emmaverybo]

105. I agree with your dad. The problem for Bernie is that his style overtakes his message. No

vocal variety, pitch, tone—everything uttered with the same expression. Body language uptight. Facial expression not relaxed, but tight, unfriendly, scowling at times. He needs a speech coach. He can debate, but he needs to work on delivery. Very tense.

[TreasonousBastard]

66. That's Vermin Supreme, and he's running again in 2020 as...

a libertarian.

He was always one of my faves as an "alternative" candidate. Loved his urgency to prepare for the zombie apocalypse, and give everyone a horse.

And, yeah, Bernie is full of the buzzwords (among other things) but no actual idea what to do about these evils.

[JudyM]

133. You could go on but you'd likely be wrong.

He addressed foreign policy in the debate. He addressed federal judges/supremes as well.

[emmaverybo]

15. If this was between Biden and Sanders, Biden on a leash (held by advisors) won hands down. NT

[crazytown]

16. Gillibrand

'pass the torch' Swalwell second

[Honeycombe8]

17. Biggest loser - Gillibrand.

But she wasn't really in the running, anyway.

Of the top ones (Biden, Buttigieg, Harris, Sanders), Sanders was the loser, agreed.

Harris was the winner.

Biden and Buttigieg did well.

[LeftInTX]

74. I thought Gillibrand did well.

Not my favorite, but I feel her positions were well thought out

It's a shame that she has so much baggage.

[betsuni]

20. His last comment made me yell at the screen.

Does he not know that Republicans are the reason Democratic ideas don't get done? How silly of me, it's because the Democratic Party doesn't care about working families, blah blah blah

[Eric J in MN]

84. From 2009-2011 we had the White House and Congress

...but didn’t pass:
- a public option in healthcare
- card check for easier unionizing
- closing Gitmo

[betsuni]

85. No. Had filibuster-proof 60 votes in the Senate for four months and ten days.

Oh, Eric.

Al Franken: "During the 2012 campaign, Republicans and their lackeys in the media liked to claim that Obama 'owned the Congress for the first two years. They did everything he wanted.' .... I think they kept this talking point specifically to drive me insane. The truth is that we had a filibuster-proof majority from September 24, 2009 (when Paul Kirk was sworn in), until February 4, 2010 (when Scott Brown was sworn in -- all of four months and ten days.)"

[betsuni]

96. "If Biden becomes president and asks Henry Kissinger for advice that could affect policy."

[TwilightZone]

111. Still false.

https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/

[sheshe2]

118. He has been in office for decades.

What has be accomplished for working families? Where is the list of HIS programs that he not just spoke about but fought for tooth and nail to make them a law? Talking does not accomplishments make.

[trueblue2007]

21. ALL B.S. talked about was the TOP 1 % !!!!!!!! .... glaring, pointing and wagging his finger

[Mr Jimmy]

22. Bernie has been in DC for four decades

and just asked how come nothing ever changes?

Really, Really?

[spooky3]

29. I had the same thought. Nt

[JaneQPublic]

32. Someone should've asked BS what bills he's passed

...besides ones naming Post Offices in Vermont.

[NanceGreggs]

56. My thoughts exactly.

It goes right along with his "I'm an outsider" bullshit, when everyone knows he's never earned a paycheque that wasn't signed by Uncle Sam.

[we can do it]

91. Our exact words last night.

[joshcryer]

98. I was so disappointed not a single one of the new people called him on that.

"Bernie Sanders, you have been in DC for the entirety of my adulthood, and the better part of my childhood, and you presume to advocate for change when you were part of the unchanging process you so decry."

[barbtries]

24. i hope so

i also hope Gillibrand goes away soon. Biden. make way for #Warren2020!!

[SouthernProgressive]

25. He is explaining Democratic Socialism.

It would be a difficult sell for a good salesman.

[mtnsnake]

27. I don't think that's true. Bernie wasn't a winner but he did better than I thought he would.

Gillibrand was the biggest loser. She is a loser, and it showed.

[Vegas Roller]

28. That was not very unexpected n/t

[bornsunny]

31. It's funny how...

All the Biden supporters are declaring Sanders the big loser of the debate. Sanders did fine and I don't think he made any mistakes.

[Cha]

80. It's so funny how you're calling out "Biden Supporters"

for having an opinion different than yours. Are you absolutely sure it's "all the Biden supporters"?

Got anything positive about Booker?

[BeyondGeography]

33. IDK, I'm watching Biden get buried on CNN

The Harris exchange isn’t going to play out well for him. At all.

[Perseus]

46. Nor will the exchange with Michael Bennet, or his defense of the NRA

To me, he was the looser tonight, and I don't think he can beat the buffoon. The buffoon wants him to win the nomination, they have so much on Biden it won't be pretty.

[OilemFirchen]

34. Among those who "count", yes indeed.

Nonetheless, fuck Andrew-Ron Yang-Paul.

[ancianita]

35. Not at all. He was supportive of others' ideas and stayed true to doing the greatest good for

the greatest number by going after the ruling fictional personhoods and their henchmen.

He was supportive of Harris.

[Raine]

36. NO ... it was Gillibrand nt

[SCantiGOP]

37. I think Biden was the big loser

And I gave my endorsement of him on this post.
But it won’t be there in the next post.

[jg10003]

38. Bernie didn't harm himself, he broke even, like Warren last night.

At this point that is all either of them needed to do.

[JoeOtterbein]

39. Sir. How many drinks did you have tonight?

Please show me your pundit licence Sir.

[Cha]

83. so funny

[dlk]

40. Bernie Looked Out of Touch When He Yelled at Rachel About His Quote

One thing about Rachel is she always has her facts straight.

[we can do it]

93. Especially bad. He looked off his meds.

[NoMoreRepugs]

41. In an extremely difficult format it seemed Bernie had

the fewest "new" things to say. IMO Harris was excellent, but she also never had to play defense....Biden did well, especially when considering how often he had to defend his extensive public record. Mayor Pete also carried himself well throughout the police shooting rehash.

All in all a fine showing by all.

[Princetonian]

42. At my watch party, everyone thought Bernie had the best closing argument.

They all agreed with every word. I did too.

Bernie has zero polish but voters value the strength of his convictions. He may not win but he is almost singlehandedly responsible for moving the party to the left since his notable run in 2016 and he will play that role in 2020 as well.

[jg10003]

45. Bernie's authenticity has always been his greatest strength.

It's the reason why 2016 some trump supporters said they would vote for him. They were looking for someone outside of the traditional political mold. Unfortunately they were fooled by the world's greatest con-man.

[tblue37]

54. I said tye same thing on another thread--about Bernie deserving credit for moving the

party and country to the left--and for pushing into the conversation the issues I care about.

[JudyM]

134. Yes, let's give credit where it's due. He also got young voters energized, no small feat.

[Perseus]

43. I don't agree, I think Biden was the biggest looser

He was caught twice not telling the stories as they were, his answer to Harris that he opposed the vote because it should be a Federal vote and not a Local vote fails at every corner, you either believe on something or you don't.

Michael Bennet called him out on his "negotiating ability" when he gave everything to McConnell so that he could say he brought repubs to the negotiating table.

On Universal healthcare he was the only one who did not raise his hand to then pretended he had and then repeat what mayor Pete had said.

The gun manufacturers are the problem, the NRA is not the problem???? Are you kidding me?

Tonight we saw, first hand, Biden change his tune when he saw a topic he did not approve of was popular, we saw a professional politician, and he will be weak against the buffoon.

[Demsrule86]

55. Gun manufactuters call the tune the NRA dances to...he is correct.

[TheSocialDem]

112. Why he went out of his way to defend the NRA is beyond me

[Prosper]

49. Biden would destroy

the potential of the electric car and ensure the demand for gasoline cars forever . He proposef 500 000 battery charging stations for electric cars. He didn't propose battery changing stations. Tesla had a model that could pull into a changing station and leave with a fully charged battery in 90 seconds. That would give the electric car the same mobility as a gasoline car. The charging station would require a waiting period every 300 or so miles. Biden would ensure the demand for gasoline and gasoline cars forever. Why ???

[Rstrstx]

81. Huh? Battery changing was never a good option for EVs

What are Biden's specific proposals? Tesla ditched battery swapping as impractical, and I can totally understand. Who wants to trust a place in the middle of nowhere to just swap out a $10,000 part of your car in a few minutes? I wouldn't, no telling whose battery you would get and if the process went wrong you'd be stranded, or worse.

Tesla and others have long since moved on to faster charging as the way to go. Their new v3 superchargers are impressive, if you're running low they can add around 140 miles in 11 minutes on a long range Model 3, the time of a bathroom break basically. Stopping to eat will get you a much longer charge and spending the night somewhere doesn't even require a DC supercharger.

But that really only applies to road trips. Most automobile owners don't do road trips all that often. I think flooding all towns of every size with abundant and cheap (if not free) level 2 charging stations is the best thing we can do to encourage wider EV adoption. If people see stations everywhere they go and know they can get 30-50 or more miles for little to nothing every time they go to a shop, restaurant, gym or movie theater they are that much more likely to buy an EV. Eventually those stations will be wireless but for the time being cables will do (heck even just NEMA 14-50 outlets would work in certain cases).

[Prosper]

136. You trust the well being of your car

and your safety to any gas station any place. Battery changing stations would be regulated in the same way. As part of an environmental resolution program battery changing stations would be run and paid for by the government. That means no electric car owner would ever have to buy a replacement battery .A progressive pollution solution that is not a regressive tax on the poor. People will never stand for a 1500 mile vacation with 10 stops for a quick charge. Downside of changeable battery electric cars is bankrupting gasoline car manufacturers and auto parts industries and the massive resulting unemployment . Electric cars use fewer parts and electric motors last for ever.

[paulkienitz]

52. We need to keep Bernie around for a while

in order to scare the corporatist third-wayers into seeing Warren as acceptable.

[Blue_true]

71. After tonight you may need to mount him up in a saddle El Sid style. nt

[betsuni]

72. LOL

Good one.

[Still In Wisconsin]

53. Honestly, as I said in another thread, I think Senator Harris effectively ended Joe Biden tonight.

Bernie had a terrible night, but in my opinion, Joe's was worse. Harris hit him hard, which is part of the game during the primaries, and he had no real response. Not saying I don't still really like him, but I think after tonight both Biden and Sanders might be toast.

[Demsrule86]

58. She didnt. She is going nowhere. She wont win a general and

She took positions tonight that make it harder...wishful thinking on your part.

[Still In Wisconsin]

62. Wishful thinking? I'm FOR Biden.

But gotta be real...I'm a Packer fan, I know what watching my preferred competitor get (his) ass handed to him looks like. Biden got his ass handed to him. There's no other way to see this, in my opinion.

Also, I am not saying Harris won the nomination tonight, but I do think Biden lost it. He looked old, out of touch, and lost.

[Blue_true]

75. Warren emerged from the other debate. I think she likely is the one to watch.

Who emerges to take her on is an open question.

[emmaverybo]

106. Time to switch candidates. Biden held his own. He was on a leash, so a bit strained. Her

blind-siding theatrics will give her some attention, rising star and all, but she needs to show how
she qualifies for the highest office in the land and is ready for the world stage where playing personal politics won’t work.

This was her night. She made it so and I applaud her presence, her performing ability. She is going
to need more for the GE.

[Blue_true]

73. The polls over the next two weeks should be interesting. nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. Bernie combs his hair with a balloon

I forget who said it but it was when Joy Reid was on.

No offense intended but I got a chuckle out of it.

[tishaLA]

60. Nobody's even talking about him

He's the Democratic Socialist version of Andrew Yang

[murielm99]

64. I agree.

He started out by ranting and not answering the question. The moderator gave him a little more time so he could get back to answering the question.

He did not rant about "Waaahl Schtreeeet" as much as I expected and he did give some good answers.

I thought he and Biden lost ground. I think Biden will make up for what he lost tonight, but it did hurt him.

I still think Mayor Pete was the best one there. He gave the best answers and mostly stayed on point. He is a skilled debater, and he has great ideas.

[Blue_true]

65. I really think it will come down to Warren going nose to nose with someone else.

Harris really surprised tonight. I thought that it would be Biden v Warren for the nomination, but now I am not sure about the Biden part.

I agree that all but the most hardened Bernie loyalists are likely looking to jump ship after tonight.

[Eric J in MN]

86. Why would a Bernie supporter

...who isn’t “the most hardened” switch support after watching last night’s debate?

[Blue_true]

117. Bernie was largely irrelevant and easily attacked by the others in the debate.

Warren was in control the night before and literally took center stage (she was positioned just off center stage).

It's all about going with the strongest horse. If the leftmost flank plan to compete with progressives that are less left than they are, those people on the leftmost flank need to make a decision now.

[Eric J in MN]

130. If Elizabeth Warren is sincere about

...supporting Bernie’s Medicare for All bill, then the criticisms of it apply to both of them.

If she’s insincere, then people who like the plan should stick with Bernie.

[Quackers]

69. I'm honestly surprised he has surged recently on DU.

Can’t wait till Pete overtakes him again.

[Cha]

78. Well good news for

some of us, however temporarily.. he was at 8% and now he's back down to 7%.

[Skittles]

128. I am surprised he EVER surged

[Go Vols]

76. Succeded at dragging

the supposed "left" back that way in last 4 years.

Biden is the last original "New Democrat",and the last.

+1 for Bernie.

[NYMinute]

99. lol

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. K&R

[jcmaine72]

82. Disagree. The biggest loser tonight was....

Trump. He knows the game is almost up. No matter who the Democratic nominee ultimately is, his reign of hate will end in November, 2020.

[robbedvoter]

87. Forgot he was there most of the time

[musicman65]

88. In my mind

it has to be Joe & Mayor Pete that really came out ahead

[honest.abe]

92. Hope so.

He should just drop out and save what bit of integrity he has left.

[betsuni]

95. After he said, "These are good people, they have great ideas, but how come nothing really changes?"

Somebody made an irritated huffing sound.

[Cha]

101. Hmmmm? I wonder?

[BlueWI]

113. I thought Sanders did well actually.

Mic drop moment after Biden's response on the IWR question.

Argued the case for system change. Sure, this is his focus - some don't find it convincing, but gridlock and oligarchy are both a reality, whether we want to hear it or not.

[colsohlibgal]

116. Nope It Was Biden

Biden looked a bit foggy at times, Bernie did not.

I do think Bernie’s time may be past, but he may not be alone.....both he and Joe could hit their 80s in office.

Anyway we will see how the polling goes this week.

[Land Shark]

119. I disagree, but thabks for posting.

[Cha]

121. Democracy Corps data shows Biden's favorability with African American voters went up a net 18% after

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

125. He was smart to defend the Obama-Biden legacy as much as he did.

[Cha]

126. Yeah! And, it only

comes so natural to him.

Mahalo, betsuni

[Quixote1818]

129. Not sure how he is the loser consider the front runners have all taken up his stances on the issues

He may not win the nomination but he changed the Democratic party as most of these stances were not popular 4 years ago until he started talking about them.

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287362-4-ways-bernie-sanders-changed-the-democratic-party

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/08/how-bernie-sanders-changed-the-democratic-party/?utm_term=.c7b1ea06cb21

[Gothmog]

131. I would not be surprised to see sanders drop a great deal

There will be a good number of states where sanders will not break 15% and get delegates

[Tiggeroshii]

132. In your dreams

[aikoaiko]

137. Bernie really can't lose because he just want to deliver a message

And gain silupport for the ideas.

Which he did.

[Raine]

141. Exactly! nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

138. I thnk optics and demeanor

are factors. Bernie was.literally yelling. Swallwell dissed and embarrassed Biden for his age. Bad moves.

[floppyboo]

139. Your opinion contradicts polling #'s pre/post debate

Although they may not be important to you.
I thought Bernie did strategically very very good!
Didn't give anyone the opportunity to attack him on the stage.
Except this DU stage, of course. But that threshold is non-existent

[Raine]

140. Bernie is "a victim of his own success"

he moved the party to the left, the others have taken most of his stands and mingled his with theirs. Doubtful he'll be president but he changed the party that's probably what's most important to him anyway.