Dan Rather on Harris going after Biden: "Did she win new fans or turn people off?"

[highplainsdem]

Good question from Rather. I don't think we know the answer yet, but it's possible she did both. In fact, it's likely she did both, judging by reactions I'm seeing here on DU and on Twitter.

Rather's tweet, just minutes ago:

Link to tweet

Harris clearly came in planning to go on the offensive, against Biden in particular. She made a big impression. That is a matter of fact. But the question will be, did she win new fans or turn people off? Talk amongst yourselves.

[msongs]

1. depends on whether you think busing was an effective overall strategy at the time and

has produced the desired outcomes IMO

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Both, probably.

That was my reaction. I liked it that she had the guts to do it but was also a bit put off that she mischaracterized what he said and did.

[onetexan]

13. bingo. She got way too emotional over the whole thing and seemed to lose her composure at that point

[Green Line]

23. Agree

[Honeycombe8]

24. Emotion isn't a bad thing. Obama got teary eyed a couple of times.

Other male politicians have cried or gotten emotional. Castro got emotional last night over the father and baby dying.

Just because a woman does it, doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just different. Just like it's not bad that a male leader would not get emotional when speaking about an emotional issue. It's just his way of handling things.

[onetexan]

32. has nothing to do with a woman. Her emotional outburst directed towards Joe was just wrong since

she misconstrued his words. We've been over this on this board the past several weeks on that segregationist issue. He wasn't complimenting those racists. He was giving an example of being able to work with the worst types.

[Honeycombe8]

35. Oh, that. I thought you were referring to emotion...like when she got a tad emotional

about the migrant issue, and then when speaking of herself being bused. That's fine. It was an emotional thing to her.

But if you're talking about anger directed at Biden, I'm not so sure it was anger, or real anger, anyway.

I agree about the segregationist thing. I'm not a Biden supporter, but it's ludicrous to suggest that he propped up segregationists and their ways in any way.

[onetexan]

41. exactly. She apparently didn't know of Joe's records on civil rights

while i loved how impassioned she was on all the issues, her attempt to knock Joe down didn't do it for me. Kamala clearly is sharp as heck and an excellent debater, but in this case she did misconstrue his words.

Anywaze, i'm hoping they can patch it up and would be great if they can be on the same ticket!

[Blue_true]

39. So saw busing as a Black child.

Joe saw busing as a White man. The two naturally would arrive at different conclusions. I went to segregated schools for a short but and then to integrated schools. My bus ride was shorter with integrated schools, in one case I could walk to school.

[Kind of Blue]

82. Yes, working with the worst types to defend the separate but unequal doctrine.

[Pachamama]

54. Probably Both - but my feeling is it will backfire on Harris and turn many off...it did for me...

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2019, 07:33 AM - Edit history (1)

When she said what she said and suggested he coddled segregationists and attacked Biden....that was a sucker punch and I was shocked. Biden was shocked, but the look on his face as she discussed being the girl on the bus, that was a look of empathy from Biden...I am very disappointed that Harris decided to attack Biden on stage at the debates like this to make her point about racism in America to make it up a notch in the polls.

As a supporter of Harris, and also someone who has been since early January proposing a Harris/Biden or Biden/Harris ticket to be the only ONE that will be able to beat Trump and win, I feel she made a huge mistake.

This may have won her some support in the black community, but Biden is very popular among women, whites and blacks alike and also especially among the older generation and republicans and moderates, and blue collar workers (a lot of whom are white) and she did herself no favor there and may have lost support of those voters if they have to choose between her and Biden. Honestly - if she wanted to take anyone out on stage tonight, she should have been taking on Sanders in this debate not Biden. She should have kept her focus on Trump and saying what she would do as President, particularly against his racist policies and stances.

I believe that her shot at being the eventual nominee has actually now gone down because of that. I believe Biden will be the nominee for all the reasons I just stated and she at least WAS his top choice as a VP running mate. That may have just disappeared. Wrong move for Harris.

I think that Biden will recover from this. I have believed that Biden and Harris working together will be the way to heal America's wounds of racism. Maybe Biden can figure out how to take what she said and still do that with her.

I am really disappointed in Harris on how she did this. Trump is the only one happy about it. And I am pretty certain Obama isn't supportive of what she did in going after Biden.

[emmaverybo]

56. +1 Fight racists and racism, Kamala, not civil rights supporters.

[Skya Rhen]

73. I praise your thoughtful response . I completely agree with you. Kamala lost out, longterm. As a

black woman, I was deeply offended by her attack on Joe.

She insinuated that he was a racist by merely putting that loaded word in the same sentence as his name. She knew what she was doing and she made a fatal mistake. I have no respect for her.

[lapfog_1]

77. one of my dream tickets, Biden / Harris, probably died last night. n/t

[Pachamama]

80. I have believed since the beginning that or Harris/Biden was the dream ticket and a winning one

Maybe that is why I feel so disappointed today and upset. The only chance that can happen now is if somehow Biden and Harris can meet and figure a way moving forward to work together against healing the wounds of racism and her not attacking him.

I think she made a big blunder in what she did and I think it will cost her even the chance of not just the democratic nomination or being a VP choice.

If she wanted to go after someone in the pool of candidates to shame, it could or should have been Sanders and maybe pick off some of his supporters.

Frankly, you can't make a statement that Americans want to know about food on the table and not a food fight, and then turn around and grab rotten eggs and tomatoes and throw them at the leading candidate. Bad move and she lost credibility for me in that moment and guaranteed with many life-long democrats that support Joe Biden.

I believe she may get a little bump and the media may swarm over her the next week how she "won" the night....but I think she will drop down in polls and it will not be a victory long term.

[customerserviceguy]

114. Yes, it's gone. n/t

[MFGsunny]

79. Deeply appreciate your thoughtful post and agree with you on all points.

Here's hoping Harris will find a way to redeem THE WAY she communicated her message!

[UniteFightBack]

3. This line of attack is WRONG. If it were valid then I'd say have at it. She said he 'coddled' and

'praised' segregationists. That is WRONG...therefore so is this whole bullshit line of attack that she went down the garden path with hand in hand with Booker.

[Pachamama]

53. She was wrong and when she said "coddled" and "praised" I cringed....

She may have started out by saying she doesn't believe he is a Racist...and then she essentially went on to say "But..."

Harris has been till now my top choice and a Harris/Biden or Biden/Harris ticket being the winning ticket....

I am re-thinking this now...

[question everything]

4. Turned me off

First, there was a question about race that she demanded was her to comment. Don't remember what it was.

And when she went after Biden she raised her voice... will not use the word to describe it.

[Honeycombe8]

42. She sort of had a point about wanting to answer the question about race.

She was the only Af. American (part) on the stage. Yang was the only other non-white race candidate on the stage.

But the segregationist allegations were bogus. And she got her facts on the busing wrong.

[elleng]

5. Probably both; she didn't get points from me.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

6. Both Harris and Biden made their case tonight....

And both of them are perhaps the best of the group tonite. Add in Elizabeth Warren. Either one of them would be capable of prosecuting Donald Trump before the Nation and win in 2020.

[Politicub]

7. Biden missed the opportunity to show empathy. Instead, he argued for states rights.

I'm not sure if Biden knew he was doing that with his comments about local councils. It wasn't so clear in real-time, but that's how his response is being interpreted.

[Sunsky]

11. I agree nt

[Lordquinton]

50. This is the real takeaway

regardless of the details of what Harris said, Biden handled it completely wrong. Especially in light of the decision the SC just handed down.

[Raine]

8. Turned me off nt

[cbelle1039]

9. Turned me off. Biden stood his ground well.

Joy is no doubt a Harris fan but she is overboard tonight.

[katmondoo]

10. I don't remember Obama whining about how badly he was treated in his youth because of his color.

I am sure he had many really bad incidents too. Cory Booker gave me the same impression on last night's debate. WE want to improve relations with the African American community, all of us know how unfair their lives have been but to be President, all of the problems Americans have must be talked about to find solutions.

[Agschmid]

22. If you know how "unfair their lives have been" is it really whining?

Not a fan of the way you phrased that.

[LovingA2andMI]

101. Well, at least threads like this one....

is GREATLY HELPING to know who to place on block here at DU before we get to much further into Primary 2020.

These responses (NOT YOURS but the ONE you're replying too).....

[EffieBlack]

48. Because candidates don't talk about the problems of white people enough?

And when they do, somehow that means they're ignoring the problems of other Americans?

You might want to think about what you wrote and how that comes across.

[EffieBlack]

62. Who went after him on racism?

Pointing out a problem in someone's record on race is not the same as calling them a racist. And liberals need to stop whining about being called racists every time a black person says they can do better on race.

Candidates were challenging each other and their records left and right tonight and no one complained. But Harris is getting dragged and attacked for having the nerve to challenge Biden's very challengeable record on race.

If the shoes were on the other foot and it was Swalwell who challenged Biden on his civil rights record and Harris who interrupted and yelled at Buttigieg from across the stage that he should fire the police chief, I'm pretty sure folk would be praising Swalwell for being all woke and standing up to Biden and trashing Harris for being rude and unfair and playing the race cars by trying to exploit a police shooting.

[EffieBlack]

66. No, it doesn't

Funny how black folks are accused of overreacting and whining when we have to confront very real acts of racism but when a white person is criticized for something having anything to do with race, some people engage in this kind of gymnastic leapfrogging to get them from reasonable criticism to being called a racist in three bounces. Talk about looking for opportunities to play victim ...

No. Being anti-busing isn't being racist. Being racist is being racist. Being anti-busing is being anti-busing.

Several DUers have expressed their opposition to busing on this board tonight. Do you think that means any of them are, by definition, racist? Have you seen anyone here accuse them of being racist?

Just as people say that being accused of being racist shuts down all opportunties to deal with the race issue, being accused of accusing people of racism every time we talk about race is just as, if not more chilling to ever having honest conversations about race.

[EffieBlack]

85. So, you think all the DUers who have criticized busing are racists?

[EffieBlack]

90. No, just asking you to define the terms that you applied

Which you seem unwilling or unable to do, perhaps because doing so would expose the fallacy of your argument.

[True Blue American]

83. I was an admirer

Of Swalwell. Not after last night. His attack was contrived. First impression killed his chances.

Why do so many think attacking a fellow candidate gains them points?

[UniteFightBack]

110. She said he coddled segregationists and their reputations. Really? Do you

really think people would be praising Swallwell? Well guess what he took a shot at Biden ...an ageist shot and it didn't land well. There were a few threads but that brother is barely registering to even talk about unlike Harris who has much more interest.

Swalwell did himself no favors last night with his behavior. NOBODY here liked it.

And Joe has a 'very challenge-able" record on race...once again I'll say...........REALLY?

[IluvPitties]

12. She overdid it. Nobody's perfect, though.

[LincolnRossiter]

30. No way to tell how these things really impact the final outcome. I'm a big fan of Joe...

but I can't honestly say that he helped himself tonight.

Still, I can't recall that any nomination's ever been decided by the first debates (with 40 people on stage). I think Kamala showed her sharper teeth a little early for someone who was already in a pretty strong position. But we'll see. I doubt Biden lost any core supporters. I imagine Kamala probably picked up a few non-committed folks, though.

I'm not among them. For democrats to be making this about racism amongst themselves--in the context of Trump's America--is a little unconscionable to me. But maybe it'll work out better in the general that this discussion was had.

[mdelaguna]

78. Yep. nt

[ucrdem]

14. I think when she said "that was hurtful to me" is where it went off the rails.

They aren't married and she wasn't there. And he didn't mean what she keeps insisting he meant. So it seemed like using race to score points.

[Politicub]

18. Last week, it was all about how Joe Biden is so real. He's so unfiltered. He speaks

his mind and that's why people love him. Joe is so Joe no matter what he says.

Then when Harris shares her truth, you rake her over the coals for it.

She made herself vulnerable. And Biden believes he's so woke that he can not acknowledge that someone sees what he said differently.

I have a problem with that.

[ucrdem]

26. For one thing, I don't believe she was hurt by Biden's comments

She's my senator and I love her, but she was scoring points in a regrettable way IHMO.

[Demsrule86]

43. It seemed contrived to me.

[Cha]

15. i was rooting for her until she tried to

slime Biden.. insinuating that he's a "racist".

[Politicub]

19. She said "I know you're not a racist."

That's opposite of what you are saying she did.

[Cha]

31. Well, that was big of her.. as she disingenuously

insinuated that he's "racist".

[still_one]

47. It's Like saying when did you stop beating your wife Joe?

[EffieBlack]

55. No. It's like saying "I know you're not a racist, but I found your comments hurtful"

The fact that she had to preface her comments that way says a lot about how people overreact to any suggestion they are not pure as the driven snow on race.

People need to stop assuming that any criticism of how one handles racial issues is tantamount to being called a racist.

The snowflakiness is really over-the-top.

[GreenPartyVoter]

94. Agreed.

[still_one]

95. I disagree with you Effie. My Senator Harris is a very savey person, and knew exactly what she was

doing. She is leaving the impression for others to extrapolate guilt by association

When Reps. Tlaib went after Meadows during the Cohen testimony, she used a variation of that. Difference in that case though, is that Meadows could be considered a racist from his previous actions.

[EffieBlack]

96. I don't agree, but even if you are right, he needs to step up his game and deal with it

and not allow himself to get thrown off his game.

But please don't discount the very real feelings so many African Americans on these things and how painful and difficult it can be to speak our truth.

I see that right here on DU. Often when I speak honestly and share my story, feelings and perspective, I know I'm going to be attacked for stirring the waters, making people uncomfortable and, my favorite, being "divisive." This is our daily reality.

[still_one]

97. I absolutely do not discount Senator Harris feelings, or African American feelings regarding what

they went through, and are still going through.

In fact I can identify with some of those feelings as a Jew growing up in the Midwest.

I have seen what you referring to when you have brought up issues and experiences that make some "uncomfortable", and the push back you received for expressing those feelings by some.

What I will say is that it is more imperative today than ever, that this not only be discussed openly, but called out whenever it rears its ugly head.

It is alarming to say the least that the progress made during the Civil Right movement, is slowly being rolled back, and that must be stopped, and not allowed to happen, and exposing it is one way of doing that.

[UniteFightBack]

109. Yes and the perfect place to address that 'hurt' is right there on the debate stage. nt

[emmaverybo]

87. " I know you're not a war-monger. You voted for the Iraq war. There was a young father of a baby.

He was killed in Iraq. Guess what? He was my husband. You devastated me. ”

Sorry. That’s not debating. That’s ambushing. That’s theater.

Sad to see her do this, granted very successfully, to the candidate with decades of support for civil rights and such a strong sense of social justice, a mission to unify, rather than divide Americans, and who was unflagging and loyal in carrying out his duties to the first black American president.

[blue neen]

16. That was a turn-off.

Sorry, Sen. Harris.

[tinrobot]

17. Chance of a Biden/Harris ticket just went way down...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Not at all.

Running mates who actually like each other have not been the norm; in recent years the good relationship between Obama and Biden was sort of an anomaly. JFK and Johnson didn't like each other; ditto for Johnson and Humphrey, Nixon and Agnew, Reagan and Bush, and Kerry and Edwards. Running mates are selected mostly on the basis of the votes they can bring in. If they also get along personally, so much the better, but that's not a requirement. I think Biden and Harris are big enough people to set aside their differences (and anyhow, this was theatre more than anything else). And if that ticket is elected, it's a huge leg up for Harris for 2024 because realistically, Biden probably would serve only one term because of his age.

[shanti]

112. Yes!

We are in agreement on this. He was a public defender, she was a prosecutor, both sides understand each other, even if they don't go about things the same way. They both dealt with racism in different ways. They have very different personalities. And they're both company Dems. Kamala would be a strong VP.

[EffieBlack]

57. I don't think so.

I think it went way up

[treestar]

76. No, these people are tough

They know the others are just doing what they figure they have to do to win.

Biden said Obama was articulate and still made the VP slot and they are good friends.

They are like the lawyers who oppose each other by day and have a beer together after work.

This is why it is dumb when we expect them to hate each other for real. Even Republicans. You will see on DU how awful it is the Hillary actually spoke to Kissinger rather than spitting on him. We expect them to act like Dotard actually does. Like teenagers.

Heck Biden can't even say he could speak to the old-time segregationists as necessary in the Senate without being accused of all manner of things from racism to tone deafness.

[peggysue2]

98. Not necessarily

This is politics and these are both very strong contenders. There will be nicks and scrapes along the way. The trick will be to keep our candidates intact to the end without mortally wounding our best shot at taking down Trump and/or giving the Republicans ammunition for garbage attacks in the GE.

Trump has already said HE won the debate. We need to keep that boast front and center. Because without winning 2020, all bets are off. For everyone.

[jcgoldie]

20. I was pissed

I thought Harris went too far. I told my wife she's eating his lunch like he's Brett Kavanaugh and thats too far. But she's a badass. Thats what I do love about her. I don't think all her points on Biden were justified, but I do believe it was calculated and it worked. That debate was all about her, and Joe was rattled.

[unc70]

21. Harris pushed her point too far - seemed contrived

Made herself out to be the victim, almost implying it was the fault of Biden. She did well overall, but lost a lot with her busing ploy.

[Agschmid]

25. It was a canned line, they posted her words and photo as a child on social media immediately.

There is nothing wrong with that, it’s debate strategy.

[W_HAMILTON]

28. I was planning to donate for the first time to Kamala after her strong start in the debate tonight..

..but when she went after Biden like that, I decided not to. It was an unfair attack and a continuation of the false narrative that Biden was praising segregationists.

[Cha]

38. I know.. I was rooting for her..

reading how she was "kicking ass".. until the end when she wasn't anymore.

[Miles Archer]

29. Both.

That said, we're not in normal times. I'm not sure if voters being "turned on" is what will win this race. I think it will come down to conviction and the ability to convince voters that he or she will be able to defeat Trump and set the country back on an agenda that benefits Americans outside of the investor class. On that level, she's solid.

[Skid Rogue]

33. It will be interesting to see...

if she can swing the African American vote away from Biden, the way that Obama did against Hillary in 2008. If she does, she'll be a very formattable candidate. If our party turns out for her like we did for Obama we could be looking at the next president. I like her and would happily vote for her.

[Blue_true]

34. Typical elderly White man that likely went to only segregated schools.

I went to both. Kids in my county had shorter bus rides once schools were integrated.

[emmaverybo]

67. I don't think Biden was "elderly" then. But he was white and still is. NT

[Blue_true]

99. I was referring to Rather now.

When schools in Florida integrated in 1969, some White sent their kids to segregation academies, all of those are gone now pretty much statewide. There are a smattering of religious affiliated schools, but very few and even far fewer that offer a full K-12 path for kids.

Segregation was awful for the country. I read an estimate today that reparations would cost $17 trillion dollars, that is money that the economy lost due to racism. Imagine where we would be today if we, as a country, had chosen a path of total equality for everyone?

[emmaverybo]

100. Oh, ok. Did get a laugh out of my own misinterpretation. Sorry. NT

[DeminPennswoods]

36. Imagine Trump in place of Biden

Won't you like it when she doesn't take any bs from him? That's what she showed in the exchange with Biden.

[IluvPitties]

40. Biden is not Trump.

Biden is a honorable public servant. Trump is shit.

[DeminPennswoods]

45. The point is, don't we want a candidate who will

go toe-to-toe with Trump? That was more than likely the point of what Harris did, to show she's not backing down from anyone. It had nothing to do with Biden.

[Goodheart]

37. She was technically correct, but she sort of turned me off.

Sounded like a grievance whose time has passed, and the night was already hers and she had no tactical reason to go there.

[chillfactor]

44. she turned me off n/t

[hlthe2b]

46. Both. I don't think the older African Americans who lived through the time period will be impressed.

Younger people might well be.

I saw her interview with Tweety (MSNBC) and she was dramatically pulling back and actually defending Biden and his long record of public service. This tells me she knows she went TOO far.

I love Kamala, but I am still reeling from that episode. It may have been cathartic for her, but it came off as cringe-worthy for most of the rest of us--particularly since the emotion of the situation made it very difficult to follow what it is she was actually alleging. It probably will give Biden some sympathy vote for that reason. It may well lose her support for the same reason.

Those who KNOW (and Kamala clearly admitted in the post-debate interview) that Biden is NOT racist at all will be at best uncomfortable about this episode and at worse view it as a contrived ambush. Kamala's performance was otherwise flawless and I think this may not be as helpful as some might think.

[Cha]

63. Wow.. Thanks for that detailed report from

the tv, hlthe2b.

Interesting that she was "walking some of it back"!

[RHMerriman]

70. Cringe-worthy is a good word for it...

Cringe-worthy is a good word for it...

I'm the same age as the senator, went to public school in the same state, and busing - as a voluntary decision by parents who wanted their children to attend a different school than the one in their neighborhood, for whatever reason - was an issue in my city as much as it was in Oakland.

The possibility of court-ordered and involuntary busing of children AWAY from their neighborhood schools, in districts that were not segregated by law (unlike those in the South), and without parents' approval, which was what was repeatedly in the offing in the 1970s, is the sort of nonsensical policy making that makes people think "the law is an ass."

My understanding is Harris grew up in Berkeley, both her parents were Phds, and she graduated from high school in the wealthiest neighborhood in Montreal.

A member of the Little Rock Nine she is not.

[customerserviceguy]

115. Pulling back with Tweety

was just a tactic. That's courtroom drama, don't telegraph anything to the other side in the case, but hit hard when the witnesses are on the stand.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Harris was in my top 3. She's now been replaced by Castro. n/t

[Pachamama]

51. Harris and Biden had been my top choices for a ticket. I am now re-thinking her.

Warren and Castro look really strong for me as the replacement.

I think Harris blew it in attacking Biden. Yes, I know my choice for candidate shows Harris. I am likely changing this soon.

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. My top three were Biden, Harris & Beto. She may have scored a few cheap political points tonight,

but I still feel that Biden can win the electoral college, whether or not he wins a single debate.

[scardycat]

52. I was thinking of a Biden/Harris ticket too but..

when she blew up like that, I didnt like it. Seemed mean spirited to a fellow Democrat.

[EffieBlack]

60. "she blew up like that"?

Seriously? He was far more worked up than she was - she was cool, calm and soft-spoken - but you pulled the "angry black woman" card out on her?

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders was bellowing and finger shaking, Swalwell was cutting people off and yelling at Buttigieg, and last night folk were yelling at each other all across the stage, but it's Harris who lost your support because when she calmly engaged with Biden, you saw that as "blowing up that way"?

Wow.

[stonecutter357]

69. +1000

[sacto95834]

59. I may be wrong...

but I think Harris asked the question because his response to her statement (several weeks ago) really bothered/hurt her. I think she was allowing him to explain his answer or recant it.

[RelativelyJones]

64. Turned me off

[Owl]

71. Turned me off definitely.

[wyldwolf]

72. Zero-sum gain

I, personally, was highly impressed with Harris. Hell, I already was. She was my choice before Biden... BUT because I used to be much more involved in politics in real life I still know a lot of people involved in my state party and in YDA. Most of these are a bit younger than me - below 40. And MANY MANY of them are white middle and upper class 'progressives' men. Chris Hayes-types I call them.

Last night my facebook feed lit up during that Biden/Harris exchange whith those mentioned above calling for Biden to drop out and how African Americans shouldn't vote for him, and how Biden "just lost the South Caroline primary," etc.

Well, the black Democrats immediately took them to task, specifically for being told how they should feel and react to the situation. Some of the exchanges got so heated threads were deleted and, apparantely, there was some 'unfriending' going on.

So on the question posed earlier by Rather "did she win new fans or turn people off?" I believe it was a zero-sum gain. Biden didn't lose much, if any, African American support. Despite Harris's best efforts, she'll wrest little, if any, followers from Sanders or Warren.

And Frankly I was surprised it was Harris who went after Biden. I was expecting it to be Sanders.

[Pachamama]

86. Zero-Sum....perfect summary of it...

Your description of the threads on your Facebook are interesting to me to hear - and not surprising.

I have a personal perspective in this situation: I went to school with Biden's son Beau and knew Beau well and have met Joe Biden on at least a dozen occasions through my knowing his son, his association with Penn and now the Beau Biden Foundation. I have the utmost respect for him and think he scares the shit out of Trump. I also have known Kamala for over 25 years through the same social circles in the Bay Area, not even politics and think she is great. I have thought the two of them were the winning team. I think that whoever advised her to do what she did last night (or if it was she herself who thought up that plan) that she made a huge mistake. I think if it harms, it will harm her - not Biden.

And because I have had her as my first choice, I am really sad and disappointed because I see it as backfiring and being a loss for her ultimately.

[wyldwolf]

93. Well said. I don't want to get ahead of things, But Biden/Harris is the perfect ticket

It's been my theory she is, or soon would be, lobbying for the Veep spot - not directly but by not attacking Biden. I believed it would be her to defend Biden.

I was wrong. But it doesn't turn me off to Harris. I have a bit of a crush on her and want very little more than to see her take Pence - or even Trump - to the woodshed.

[RHMerriman]

106. Thanks for the post...

Zero-sum game isn't exactly right, though.

If she chose to go down that path, it was a bad decision. If someone advised her to do it and she agreed, it was still her bad decision.

I thought she was sharper than this, honestly. I think you're correct - if it harms anyone, it will harm her - not Biden.

[treestar]

74. The issue is so ancient

That it won't matter in the end. Come on, the 70s? Why refight that battle?

[UpInArms]

75. It felt too much like

“How can I make this about me?”

It was fairly offensive and lasted far too long.

[lapfog_1]

81. biden's pass the torch response

should have been "You can't pass the torch if all the runner's behind you haven't caught up to you... and this election race is too important to fumble the hand off"

[Raven123]

84. Both

I’m sure she was energized as this s the first debate, her poll numbers have stagnated and Joe’s comment on working with Eastland was a poor decision. He could have named a lot of GOPers with less baggage.

[C_U_L8R]

88. I like them both

Kamala is a very effective fighter but it saddened me to see her do that to Joe. I'd rather see them allies or running mates. They're the best we got along with Pete and Elizabeth. I also hope we can narrow down to 4 finalists quickly for the sake of everyone.

[EffieBlack]

92. I like them both, too

And it saddened me to see Biden respond the way he did - as it from bless me to see so many DUers circle the wagons and attack HER for challenging him on his civil rights record, an all-too-often phenomenon around here whenever the issue of race comes up.

[onetexan]

103. See it from our view as Biden supporters. It saddens us Kamala came out throwing Joe under the bus

the whole busing situation was years ago under very different circumstances. It was highly controversial and it didn't work. Case closed. She opted to use his words OUT OF CONTEXT to gain political points. One can expect her to do this against the other party but not against one of our own, who has an amazing civil rights records for most of his political career.

We're not attacking Kamala. We're calling her out for her opportunism to further her own political agenda.

[shanny]

102. Welp, according to a poll from fivethirtyeight,

Biden dropped 10 points after the debate (41 to 31) and Harris gained 9.

[LovingA2andMI]

104. She's a debater...

This is what happens in a debate and holding hands is not what the description is.

[shanny]

105. Yep.

[customerserviceguy]

113. Wait until she goes after Sen. Warren

and she will.

[LovingA2andMI]

117. It's Called Debating....

Elizabeth Warren can handle her own and Integration of Bussing won't be something Elizabeth will have to worry about.

[customerserviceguy]

118. True

but there's the whole DNA/Native American thing that has seemed to die down, I predict Sen. Harris will resurrect it when she gets the chance.

Harris is good at finding weaknesses and exploiting them in any way she can. She'll go after Pete Buttigieg and the South Bend police force soon enough.

[Awsi Dooger]

107. My question about Kamala Harris has always been her instincts

A long fall presidential campaign requires hundreds of decisions, often spur of the moment. It requires a great blend of offense, defense and silence when necessary.

I think Kamala Harris would default to offense almost every time. That's a lot of land mines to avoid, because Democrats are held to different standards than Republicans, and women to different standards than men.

I'll see what happens. I think she would have extremely low margin for error.

We need to get the Hispanic vote. That is the big picture variable that is being partially ignored. Hispanics have a long tendency to give benefit of a doubt to the incumbent. All of this issue stuff is nice but Trump's logical path is through winning a considerably higher percentage of Hispanics than is being assigned to him right now. If we keep talking about this other stuff we are in danger of again wondering what happened -- like the working class whites in 2016 -- when the key demographic should have been obvious all along.

Day to day developments means squat, zero and zilch compared to fortifying the Hispanic vote.

[Polly Hennessey]

108. She turned me off.

I put Harris and Gillibrand in the same category - too quick to raise their voices and attack. I doubt she will bump in the polls.

[customerserviceguy]

116. I've had a sneaking suspicion

that she was a bit smug, that suspicion did not dissipate last night.

[essadaw]

111. I had mixed feelings about Kamala's performance

I had slight preference for Kamala over Biden going into the debate. Now probably have slight preference for Biden over Kamala (Beto is way out in front for me over both of them)

For most of the debate, I thought Kamala was doing better than Biden but the attack was a turn off. Parts of it were good— I actually liked the emotion and her personal story of bussing. And I can see her point about feeling hurt but it came off a bit too political rather than authentic. But my favorability impression of both Kamala and Joe went up during the debate, just in different ways, while my impression of many other candidates went down