Remember when Barack Obama reminded everyone he was the only African-American on stage?

[Galraedia]

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2019, 01:52 PM - Edit history (2)

No? That's because he didn't. Unlike Kamala Harris, Obama didn't bring up the color of his skin to score points against his opponents. Despite all the racist things conservatives threw at him he never allowed himself to be considered their victim even if it was politically advantageous for him to do so.

Kamala Harris wants you to look at her identity and not her record because that is what is important to her. As Attorney General Kamala Harris adopted the same Republican "Tough on Crime" policies of the 1990s and 2000s. She supported locking children in detention centers and sending their parents to jail for truancy and is even caught on video laughing about having prosecuted a homeless mother of two for truancy. She released fewer prisoners despite overcrowding that was so bad it was considered by the courts to be cruel and unusual punishment, and her lawyers argued that the state couldn’t release some prisoners because it would deplete its pool for prison labor.

Yes, Biden worked with two Senate Democrats on issues that had nothing do with segregation. Brown vs. the Board of Education was decided in 1953 when Joe Biden was just 11 years old. He didn't join the Senate until 1972.

Kamala Harris was born in 1964 in Oakland, California and moved to Montreal, Canada when she was 12. She graduated from high school in Montreal, Canada in 1983. Segregation was outlawed by the federal government over a decade before she was even born. Kamala Harris was lucky to be bused to a nicer elementary school outside her district when many minorities were denied the same treatment. Joe Biden didn't support the policy of busing mandated by the federal government because all it did was bus selected minorities out of their local neighborhoods without fixing or improving the local schools many still had to attend.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Reminds me of this spectacular answer, speaking of debates

[ucrdem]

6. That was one friendly debate!

Last night was more like Gladiator II.

[BeyondGeography]

9. I thought last night was mostly sad, especially the first hour

I was begging for a commercial break at one point.

That particular debate was much deeper in the contest (pre-South Carolina I think). Hopefully we can get to a similar place in 2020.

[cwydro]

28. It was sad. It made us look like a bunch of yammering birds.

I can only imagine what anybody thinking about switching to us thought about it.

[Honeycombe8]

55. That's what a crowded primary looks like. It's actually healthy, IMO.

That's how we separate the kids from the adults.

I like more of a sense of humor, but that will come later (I hope). Right now there are just too many of them for the personality of any one of them to shine that much. But I don't know...do any of these guys have a good sense of humor? I don't know.

[msongs]

13. the good old days when americas WAS great nt

[BeyondGeography]

19. It's sobering to listen to that

From the standpoint of our present deterioration.

[Honeycombe8]

30. Sense of humor. Smile. Positivity. People Skills. That's why he won.

When I looked at Obama, from the first time I saw him speaking at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, I didn't pay attention to his race at all. I noticed it. But I noticed his skin like I noticed his other physical traits: his height, his smile, his handsome face, his mannerisms.

He had me at hello.

(this is not to say that I was happy w/everything he did or didn't do.)

[Cha]

2. I was going to say.. No.. he never did.. in

fact I remember an interview he gave to Steve Kroft at 60 Minutes when he was asked why he didn't talk about it being Black?.. paraphrasing after all this time.

And, President Obama said.. I think they've noticed. So that was Prresident Obama's style.

Everyone has their own style.

[jezebel321]

3. i agree with you. I actually loved Kamala before last night and was not wanting

Biden to be the nominee, but I am seriously worried watching what is being done to Joe Biden today. And I think Kamala knows better about him.

The party is making a HUGE mistake if everything starts looking like a racial divide. First Mayor Pete was a racist. Now Joe Biden..... Joe Biden is not passing the racial purity test.

Welcome to 4 more years of Trump as you drive moderate whites out of party that looks like it is desolving into a racial fight.

[UniteFightBack]

7. The pundits are so bad on tv that for the first time in 4 years I've turned them off. nt

[Cha]

12. Whew! i turned them off

in November 2002.. and I know they're exponentially worse today 'cause reading about it on DU.

[Honeycombe8]

31. Well said. nt

[question everything]

4. Obama's 2004 keynote address

Well, I say to them tonight, there is not a liberal America and a conservative America — there is the United States of America. There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America — there's the United States of America.

[Honeycombe8]

32. A great reminder. nt

[ucrdem]

5. Didn't know she went to HS in Montreal.

It's great that she got bused to a Berkeley elementary school but that was apparently a voluntary program initiated by Berkeley. So instead of accusing Joe she might have thanked the city of Berkeley.

[Honeycombe8]

33. She didn't seem to be aware of whose program that was.

Her facts were wrong.

[tonedevil]

8. That is a 'splain of epic proportions. /nt

[ecstatic]

10. Lol. So she brought up her race to score points AND play the victim?

And when is any of that politically advantageous?

[Triloon]

11. Harris wasn't complaining about having been bused.

I understood her to be complaining about Biden's 'States Rights' reasoning on opposing Federal busing requirements.
I admit I was fuzzy on what her concerns were when she first brought it up, but I think I get it now. It seems a little distant and 'in the weeds', but she needed a breakout moment and this sure worked for her. Biden has already survived it.

[Honeycombe8]

34. She didn't seem to know that it was her community's program, and not the fed's.

That Biden had not worked on banning busing, but on not requiring forced busing on a federal level, for the whole country. It's not the norm for the fed to dictate not only the results of meeting a legal requirement (integration), but also what method you have to use. All that matters is the result. You are free to get to that result however you see fit; local communities are in the best position to decide the procedures or combination of processes to get there, for their community.

[elfin]

14. Thank You. Now I know what was bugging me about Harris

She kept using her anecdotal experience to remind people (African Americans in South Carolina?) that she is of mixed race, even though she identifies as "black." Unnecessary to point it out.

I also was irritated in the past by Hillary emphasizing that she is a woman (as if we didn't know) with the whole "glass ceiling" riff. I didn't vote for her because she is a woman, but because of her sterling qualities.

I want a President whose main qualities are experience, wisdom, and understanding of the Constitution, along with empathy, courage, and other good stuff and NOT whether they are old, young, black, white, Asian, Christian, Jew, Muslim, male or female.

And so I dream on and hope Harris quits reminding us that she is not white and instead concentrates on her very real strengths.

[StarfishSaver]

23. Do you get annoyed with and hold it against Warren and Klobuchar when they talk about being women?

[elfin]

25. If they make it an oft-repeated and central pillar of why they are running, yes

[Honeycombe8]

40. Only when it is relevant to the issue being discussed...

or relevant to the question being asked.

I don't recall that Warren or Klobuchar did that, unless as part of a necessary response...if that.

I think Gillibrand piped in a comment about "Kudos to the women on this stage for standing up for abortion rights" or something like that. There's a reason Gillibrand is losing.

[StarfishSaver]

42. Who gets to decide when it's relevant?

[Honeycombe8]

48. I'll repeat it for you.

Since you're having trouble:

"when it's relevant TO THE QUESTION ASKED or something else said." That means the candidate doesn't just pop it up impromptu, esp when a question is not being asked of him/her.

You obviously have your point of view, no matter what. She could do almost anything, and you'd stand by your woman. So why pretend to have a discussion?

I'm open to any and all of them, but not crazy about any of them. I am open to discussion, but don't try to pull word tricks when you're losing an argument.

You implied that Warren and Klobuchar pulled the "woman card," like Harris pulled the "race card" (that's what those posts you were responding to referred to about Harris). I am pointing out that no....Warren and Klobuchar did not, in fact, pull the gender card. Watch debate #1 again. You'll see.

The only one who impromptu mentioned a woman's issue vis-a-vis the female candidates was Gillibrand.

[brush]

45. Whatever you think about Harris, Biden comminted an unforced error...

in even bringing up his interaction with segregationists 40 years ago. He's got to stop these mistakes. This and the Hyde Amendment thing are beyond gaffes. These are mistakes that he himself created for no reason. He's got to be cognizant of staying away from mine fields of the past that needn't be bought up at all.

No one would even be talking about segregationists if he hadn't, for some inexplicable reason, bought up long-forgotten, racist senators.

It's early in the campaign and already Biden has committed two unforced errors. At this rate it's going to be a long campaign with supporters holding their breath in hopes Biden can make it through without committing more.

[StarfishSaver]

46. I agree

And I can't help noticing that many of the same people who are criticizing Harris for bringing up his position on busing because it was 40 years ago are defending his bringing up his relationship with segregationists from 40 years ago

[TruckFump]

27. A person with just a tiny bit of black blood will ID as being black by all.

I learned this a long time ago when from the sister of a black male client, the father of a mixed race child. I was representing the Dad in a custody battle with his white ex-wife. I was sitting in the courthouse hallway, talking to the sister, and she said, "To blacks and whites, someone with just a bit of black blood, is black." That was said to me back in the mid 1980s and over the years, I have to say I personally have not seen an exception to this. Now, I am an old white lady -- so my experience is limited on this issue.

I don't think Kamala, as much as I love her, needs to emphasize that she is black. She is what she is and I would support her no matter her color, gender, or sexual orientation. It's her brain and abilities which impress me. She a brilliant dynamo in whatever body she inhabits!

[StarfishSaver]

36. True. But black people didn't create that whole one drop rule thing

That's a construct created by white people to ensure that anyone "tainted" with even 1/8th or 1/16th black blood (the "one drop" rule) was labeled black and therefore not entitled to any privileges of being white.

Black people with far more white blood than Obama or Harris were characterized as nothing but black so I find it amusing when people try to argue that they shouldn't identify as black because they are only "part" black.

That said, I don't think she "emphasized" that she's black. She mentioned it - just as female candidates mention being women, etc. And I'm sure if the topic they were discussing was gay marriage, Buttigieg would have had no qualms about weighing in on the topic and presenting his perspective as a gay man, etc.

[TruckFump]

61. I hear ya.

IMO, it's up to the person with the heritage and/or ethnicity to decide. Technically, I am Jewish by Jewish orthodox law. Never observant in any manner, but if I had to choose my "ethnicity," I most likely would say Jewish. IMO, it's the call of the blood. I identify with my Jewish ancestry more than any other "blood' line I have.

[Honeycombe8]

41. I consider mixed race people to be...mixed race. Imagine that.

I have a male friend who had an illegitimate child with a black woman. I've always thought of the child (now grown) as mixed race.

[TruckFump]

62. Not up to me to label.

Whatever someone feels they are, that is up to him or her.

[Honeycombe8]

63. True. But factually, that person is of mixed race.

You can tell me the sky is green all day, and the sky can say it feels green, but it's still blue in reality-ville.

However, if a person wants to align himself with one race or the other, that's his choice.

It becomes more important at work, if the company tries to diversify.

[DURHAM D]

15. Remind me when Obama was in a debate with 9 white people? nt

[Galraedia]

16. Remind me when Andrew Yang became "white".

"

[DURHAM D]

17. Good point.

Hate to say it but I don't know his ethnicity.

[AlexSFCA]

54. he is asian

his parents immigrated from Taiwan. He had plenty of stories about race baiting in school
growing up here.

[Honeycombe8]

37. The first Democratic primary debate in 2007 had eight.

Biden
Hillary Clinton
Obama
Chris Dodd
John Edwards
Maurice Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Bill Richardson

[Blue_true]

18. Wow, that was somewhat indirect.

President Obama didn't have to remind people on stage about his experiences as a Black person because none of them had said good things about segregationists and talked of their opposition to the ONLY means to integrate some schools.

[Galraedia]

20. Joe Biden was 11 years old when Brown vs The Board of Education ended segregation in 1953.

He didn't join the U.S. Senate until 1972. He did NOT work with segregationists during a time of segregation or in support of segregation. The two democratic senators Biden mentioned he even said he never agreed with them on much of anything. He didn't elect them to office. Joe Biden simply stated that he was able to work to get things done for the American people despite how evil or hateful those two senator's past or present views of the time were.

[Blue_true]

21. Biden talked about his opposition to busing to integrate schools a little more

than a week ago, making that opposition a CURRENT AFFAIR. He could have not done that.

I was not born when Brown was handed down, but I still spent a few years in segregated schools because the power structure in my county fought for 15 years to avoid integrating schools. So because a person was not born or was young does not exempt a position that they took later in life. As a young school age child, I could not understand why I didn't go to school with kids that I played with during the summer. As a thirty something man, Biden actively fought against the only known solution to forced segregation, aligning himself with segregationists in the process, and a little over a week ago he mentioned that, Harris didn't.

[StarfishSaver]

24. Please check your facts.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Biden ran for President against Obama & was in a debate w/him in 2007.

Same situation. Except Biden did not work for segregation or to ban busing or integration. That is, to put it frankly, a lie.

[AlexSFCA]

56. didnt same biden run in the same primary with him in 2008

before dropping out?
Let’s not forget Biden’s comments about Obama: “the first mainstream Afrin-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy”. Imagine is same words are applied to Harris?

[StarfishSaver]

22. And if Barack Obama didn't do it, no other black candidate can ever do it

And I don't recall the moderators of any of the debates Obama participated in address race and then try to move on without allowing him to weigh in, so maybe it wasn't necessary for him to do it.

If Harris was the only female candidate next to 9 male candidates and the moderator asked several of the men questions about reproductive rights and then tried to move on without her having an opportunity to speak about it, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if she had said that as the only woman on the stage, she'd like to say something on the topic.

[Honeycombe8]

39. So when you lose the argument, you change the goal posts?

"Okay, well, I may have been wrong about that, but...he wasn't wearing his best dark suit that night! So it's different!"

BTW...no one tried to "move on" w/o letting Harris speak. As soon as the moderator asked the question of one candidate, Harris jumped in and said something like, "Can I answer that question? I need to be the one to answer that question." With an irritated manner & look on her face. Something like that.

[Galraedia]

47. Harris interrupted as another candidate was answering a question

to point out that she was the only African-American on stage and therefore the only one that was entitled to answer that question. If she had waited until the woman was finished answering and the moderators tried to move on, that would have been completely different and the right time to have interrupted.

And if there were 9 male candidates on stage and several of them were asked questions about reproductive rights while a female candidate wasn't asked the same question, I'd also be upset. I want to hear all of the candidates talk about and defend their positions so that the public can make an informed decision.

[StarfishSaver]

52. OMG! She interrupted?

Well that's different since that would be a first.

[watoos]

26. Disclaimer; I voted for Biden in 2008

because our union supported him.

Facts are facts folks, Kamala ate Joe's lunch. I said before Joe entered the race that he had an uphill battle, that he had a lot of skeletons in his closet. He spent so much time in politics he has a lot of votes and speeches that people can pick apart.

I honestly believe that Trump doesn't fear Biden, I believe that Trump fears running against a strong woman. I believe that Trump fears running against Kamala or Liz.

It's obvious that the right fears Kamala, while she was debating, bots and trolls were attacking her on social media. I don't see the same thing happening to Joe, yet.

[Hoyt]

29. Wrong. Biden did work with the likes of Helms, Eastland, Talmadge, etc., to thwart integration.

"In 1975, Biden supported an anti-busing measure from civil rights opponent Sen. Jesse Helms. Biden then introduced a proposal in 1976 to stop the Justice Department from using busing to desegregate schools and supported a similar amendment in 1977 before introducing another bill that year opposing court-ordered busing. He also directly sought support from Eastland, one of the segregationist Senators that Harris referenced, in these efforts."

https://time.com/5616709/joe-biden-busing-democratic-debate/


I'm fine with opposing busing as an option AS LONG as the opposition calls for immediate other steps to integrate schools AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ensure that predominantly Black schools were funded as well as other schools. If Biden was out forcefully calling for boundary lines and placement of schools to encourage integration and ensure equal schools, I'd like to see that.

Fact is, Biden brought this junk up last week. If he hadn't, I don't think this issue would have come up during debates. At the time, I posted here that Biden was just giving an example of how he worked with "the other side." Then, later -- thanks to Booker and Harris -- I find out what he worked with them on. Very disappointing.

Perhaps worse, thanks to Biden, the white wingers will keep reminding us that the Democratic Party was the Party of racism back then. While I've never considered Dixiecrats as today's Democrats, and they clearly were absorbed by the GOP, I'd prefer not to have to make that argument with today's white wingers. Biden makes that difficult.

With all that said, Biden has done a lot of good, and he'll have my vote in my March primary if he continues to appear the best to beat trump. Ironically, this whole mess may actually attract some of the people who went for trump in 2016. Good for votes, but not much else.

[jcgoldie]

35. They were talking about race and they werent directing questions at her

WTF does it have to do with anything if Obama addressed race in that same way? Nice straw man. You don't feel its appropriate for the only African American on stage to bring up her heritage and her experience with race and racism in the United States when thats the topic thats being discussed? Almost seems like your title implies she was playing some sort of card. Doesn't seem like the sort of argument a Democrat would be proud of.

[brush]

43. Harris was right. It's ridiculous for AAs to be expected to be silent while whites discuss race.

It was a dumb mistake by the moderators. Hats off to Harris.

[StarfishSaver]

44. Did you post a similar OP after de Blasio said he's the only candidate raising a black son?

[Galraedia]

49. I didn't watch the first debate. I also didn't notice de Blasio was even in the race.

I watched clips of Elizabeth Warren speaking after I found out she wasn't going to be in the 2nd debate, which I felt she should have been in.

[dsc]

50. I just got done watching it

and she brought that up when she thought, admittedly incorrectly, that she wasn't going to be permitted to speak on the issue of race relations in South Bend. Frankly I think she had every earthly right to protest not being able to comment on that. Just like if there had been a huge discussion of LGBT rights and Pete had been ignored.

[Galraedia]

57. I agree that she did have a right to answer the question.

However, she took it further than that when she decided to use the opportunity to mischaracterize what Biden said, paint him as a segregationist, followed by a story about being bused to an elementary school in Berkeley, California. Bernie Sanders was also against busing in the 1970s.

"He campaigned in a local prison and spoke forcefully about racial disparities in the criminal justice system. The government, he said during a talk about desegregation busing, "doesn't give a sh** about black people."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/politics/kfile-bernie-sanders-vermont-1970s/index.html

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

51. Kamala Harris is a Black Woman

The facts that she states it as part of her experience is now spun into "an attempt to score points". That's rubbish.

Also, stating that she is not doing things the way Obama did them is eerily sounding like pitting the "good Black against the uppity Black". It's a ploy that has been used by racists. It often worked, but I don't think it will work against Kamala.

Instead of focusing on Kamala's performance, Biden supporters should be more concerned with his rusty debate performance, perhaps. Petting him is not going to help him win against 45.

[StarfishSaver]

53. This right here

[Galraedia]

58. Kamala Harris wants you to look at her Identity and not her Record...

Because her identity as a black woman is more important to her than her record and she wants you to know that.

As a Attorney General she adopted the same Republican "Tough on Crime" policies of the 1990s and 2000s, supported locking children in detention centers and sending their parents to jail for truancy, released fewer prisoners despite overcrowding that was so bad it was considered by the courts to be cruel and unusual punishment, and her lawyers argued that the state couldn’t release some prisoners because it would deplete its pool for prison labor.

[Fiendish Thingy]

59. Don't care- if Joe can't take it he should drop out nt

[stonecutter357]

60. K&R

[Chitown Kev]

64. This is more than a little offensive

Here y'all go throwing up the "Obama shield" again...think what you will about Kamala Harris, she does not have to meet you standard of blackness...she is her own person with her own experiences...as I am.