For the ones dissing Harris for "planning" her attack on Biden:

[shraby]

In order to be effective, one always has to plan their strategy. It's a way to organize the thoughts so they are all in the statement.

How many times have you said "I wish I had said ......... fill in the blank. Better to have your arguments in order and inclusive for delivery especially in a timed environment. That way you don't get cut off before your done.

She's my choice and when I see her put herself up the ladder, it warms my heart. She's in a very competitive environment and every rung she can advance is a plus.

[pangaia]

1. Of course she planned it. So what.

EVERYBODY on that stage planned EVERYTHING they said.

I also had the feeling that she honestly felt exactly the way she looked, as though she was near tears. Although she may just be a good actress. I really have no idea.

[UniteFightBack]

6. Sorry but I don't want my presidential candidate 'near tears' on a debate stage but I did not see

that so hopefully that didn't happen.

[pangaia]

8. Well, your preferred candidate looked a little.. 'down in the mouth,' as well.

[UniteFightBack]

35. It was when they go low you stay high.

right back at ya.

[Sneederbunk]

2. Says no food fight then throws an egg.

[UniteFightBack]

10. You know what screw that she didn't throw an egg she raided the whole damn pantry. nt

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2019, 02:08 AM - Edit history (1)

[CharleyDog]

39. Joe spoke of segregationists with some awe and respect. He talked about them

as if they deserved some respect, and he started this subject.
Yes, her challenge was planned, she wanted to tell him what that meant to her, as a person.

Kamala began her segment telling him how that hurt, and said, "as a POC, I was affected." Then she told how she was personally affected.

There are several articles out today about the conditions in Berkeley and the segregated schools in the 1950s-60s. Children of color did not do well in school, the schools were not equal. Kamala told how this affected her life, how she was able to go to a good school.

Biden's attitude then, was wrong. It was on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of American values. He was caught unprepared and he lied about his point of view.

So, I'm not against Biden, but there's going to be uncomfortable issues, and Biden could do better. "I was wrong," he could say. "Treating POC that way is wrong, segregation is wrong." Instead he lied about his position, and he blustered instead of sharing a human moment with Kamala which would have been very powerful for both.

[UniteFightBack]

45. Awe and respect...that is just BULLSHIT. Give it up. He is on the wrong side of history about

busing. Yeah OK I'll tell you one thing I ain't entertaining this nonsense today..so good day to you.

[emmaverybo]

76. He respected civility. You know he spoke about Eastland with awe? You were at the fund raiser?

He did not lie about his position. He opposed federally mandated busing.
Harris misrepresented herself as having benefitted from the federal mandate.
She did not.
She benefitted from her school board’s decision to integrate Berkley schools and implement a busing program.
He did not oppose local or state busing programs.
She should have used a different “little girl” in her story to extoll the virtues of nation-wide
forced busing.
She benefitted from the very kind of program Biden suggested was a better way to integration.

[Cha]

13. I thought it was a "plate

of Spaghetti!"

[customerserviceguy]

29. More like a rotten tomato. n/t

[Bettie]

3. She's not my first choice

but I applaud her for being prepared.

Funny, nothing she said would never have been called "calculated" if she were a man. Wonder why...the world may never know!

[True Dough]

26. It was calculated!

There's no misogyny in using that word to describe what was clearly a planned takedown of Biden, who is leading in the polls.

I would say the same thing about a male candidate who planned a calculated attack. There will be some in upcoming debates. There have been examples in past debates.

[2naSalit]

58. So...

because Biden was leading in the polls she has no right to go and challenge him in a debate specifically meant foe such things? Or she was "calculated" because she was able to not flub her challenge and Biden wasn't the shining knight everyone's hoping for all of a sudden?

Or her challenge was "calculated" because she had something to say and it was effective enough to shine a light on an issue of import and that's just not the kind of characteristic a woman should exhibit?

Why not just come out and say conniving? The language is so subtle but it still hits the mark for those who think that way.

[True Dough]

60. I have already stated elsewhere on the DU

that I respect Harris for her approach in the debate. It was fair game.

This is turning into a semantics sort of debate. It seems to boil down to people's connotation of "calculated." Some perceive it as a negative word, others not so much. I'm among the latter.

You suggest it's not much of a leap from calculating to conniving. I just took a look at a thesaurus. I didn't see conniving as a synonym. I did see "determined," "premeditated," "planned," "intended," "designed." I think all of those are applicable and none of them is unfavorable.

[2naSalit]

64. Context...

Those are all terms which will not appear in a thesaurus as synonyms because it's a cultural construction that will not be identified in printed reference materials. But inference of negativity is present in much of the language used to describe women.

Please don't try to tell me that it is not a thing because it is.

Every woman who has had to fight for her gains, not handed to them through nepotism or the like, will agree that the attacks used to defeat them are based in this coded use of language.

Ref: See: 2016 Presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton.

[StarfishSaver]

66. This

And one of the reasons this coded language is effective is that it is coded and provides cover to the people who use it - as evidence by the fact that even well meaning progressives will defend the language as no big deal and accuse those of us who recognize it for what it is of overreacting.

That's the point of the code.

[2naSalit]

67. Precisely. nt

[True Dough]

68. Well, I'm not about to stop describing a calculated action as calculated

regardless of whether the candidate is a male or a female.

I hold no ill will towards Kamala Harris. She would be my #3 pick behind Elizabeth Warren.

[femmedem]

81. If she's our nominee, I hope like hell she calculates an attack on Trump.

Now I'll say this: I don't interpret Biden as saying anything good about the segregationists' reputations. I believe he used them as an example of the worst of the worst, and said he could work even with them. So I think Harris misrepresented him there.

But other than that, she was speaking personally and effectively about a policy difference, after saying she wasn't accusing him of being racist. So I agree with you: fair game.

And even people who are uncomfortable seeing our frontrunner criticized must be daydreaming about how she'd eviscerate Trump in a debate.

[mcar]

47. Castro the night before

No one said the words calculated or contrived to describe his challenge of O'Rourke.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

75. she's a Senator on the judicial committee who

Was and is a prosecutor. What she says and dies about foreign affair will be Biden's area of expertise. It will probably even out.

I kinda hope for a Warren/Harris ticket.
We're likely to get a Biden/ Buttigieg one.

[IronLionZion]

80. Warren has a plan for everything

and people applaud her for that. Maybe we should all just wing it like Trump does, since that works out so well.

[mobeau69]

4. But that's not fair! She utilizes the concept of planning.

[watoos]

5. Our nominee needs to be tough as nails

to take on Trump. I like her more now.

Harris and Warren are at the top of my list now. Candidates need to go after Trump, our country is in a state of emergency.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. Kamala sure threw Joe under the school bus. Was it justified? Maybe, as long as her story holds up.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapfog_1]

74. her attack on Joe would have better been spent on Bernie

because he was utterly opposed to busing in the 1970s...

But Joe is ahead of her by 20+ points in the polls and attacking Bernie doesn't grab the headlines like attacking Biden.

[Blue_true]

7. Biden opened the door that she walked through.

He could have "planned" what he said a little over a week ago so that it did not come out the way it did. That he did not shows either cluelessness about the power of words around racial issues, or simple poor preparation of his statements, which he should have known would be parsed for every word.

[UniteFightBack]

9. This election is a little different and I don't very much care for lines of attack that I feel are

INVALID.

[shraby]

15. This is a valid line of attack. I can remember the arguments concerning this

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2019, 01:06 AM - Edit history (1)

very subject. Never felt the effects though.

I had a close to 2 hour ride home from school every day and lived about 15 minutes from the school. I was the last one off the bus after school, but the last one picked up in the morning so it was a direct shot to school.

The buses were free and run by the school. Being the last one off on the way home gave me time to work on my school assignments.

To clarify why I had about a 2 hour ride home from school had nothing to do with forced busing. I was because there were just so many buses to cover the routes to pick up all the kids and that made some of the routes kind of long.

[UniteFightBack]

17. I'm interested in what we can do about the future, not rehashing this hot topic of 'busing' that is

being exploited effectively by Senator Harris.

[womanofthehills]

23. Biden started it telling us how well he worked with the racists

and how they never called him "boy" - Of course they didn't because he was white.

[UniteFightBack]

24. My co worker is a racist and I work very well with him and we get shit done. No he wasn't

called boy he was called son which he said was supposed to be disrespectful to him..he wasn't called Senator Biden he was called son. He said he didn't agree with them on just about anything...but that line ain't so juicy huh.

He worked with racist because that's all that was friggin there.

Listen anybody with a brain cell left in their head knows exactly what the fuck that was and no amount of spin is gonna change that.

[emmaverybo]

40. The senator called Ted Kennedy boy. Boy did not originate as a racial slur. White dad called his

son boy, his white store clerk boy, in a more jocular way his friends boy, which is where good ole boys came from. It was a Southernism that expressed a hierarchal relationship, but could be used in a white to white situation as Eastland did. And sure, a white adult would call a black adult boy to
dehumanize, to infantilize, to say you are not a full person and I am the boss of you. I don’t respect you so your name I don’t need to use.
Since both Ted and Joe worked for the senator they knew he used boy for younger, less experienced, not as high on the totem pole males to show he was the big Kahuna.
Ted was older than Joe but due to his family status and wealth, he was boy; Biden still condescended to as son.
Biden would not have heard Eastland talking to black males and would have found that slur offensive. Lifting language out of context does not give you its meaning. Biden’s context was the Senate. He wasn’t using a racial slur on Teddy Kennedy. That simply was not the only meaning
Of the word, to slur racially not its only intent.
No one, no group can own a word. Region, context, tone of voice, intent, custom must be considered.
You can take information, the givens, to bear on your interpretation or leave it out and believe what you need to despite the information. That then is willful misinterpretation.

[Skya Rhen]

69. So why did the racist segregationist, Eastland, call Senator Ted Kennedy "boy"? Kennedy was white.

I will await a response.

**************************************************************************************

Kennedy told the story to his interviewer, calling himself “an amusement to Eastland.”

Eastland said, “I want you to come over, boy. We’ll talk about your subcommittees.” I said, “That’s fine. When do you want me to come?” “You come by tomorrow morning at ten, and we’ll talk about your subcommittees.” I said, “Okay, I’ll come over.” We had been working all day and night, what committees I want and what committees I don’t want and why. I had all my staff around, and I finally had my little list. “You sit down here, boy.” It’s 10:00. “What do you drink, bourbon or scotch?” I said, “Well, I—” “Bourbon or scotch!?” “Scotch,” I said finally.



https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/dailyledes/2015/09/30/ted-kennedy-big-jim-eastland-drinking-scotch/73114062/

[bitterross]

12. Harris planned a strategy to defeat her opponent. How is that bad?

FFS, thank goodness a Democrat knows how to plan a strategy to defeat their opponent.

We shouldn't be upset. We should be damn happy for a change.

[UniteFightBack]

19. And the same shall be done to her and then we can send our candidate into the general all

nice and bloody. Oh wait that won't happen...nothing like that happened in 2016 or anything.

[bitterross]

22. God forbid anyone having to stand up and be strong in the primaries

We wouldn't want to be impolite or anything. I mean it's not like this is for ALL the marbles or anything. Having a spine, being a bit ruthless to win because it's important - no, no, no. Don't do that.

Make nice with the other candidates in the competition. I mean there ARE participation trophies for this if we lose again - right?

[UniteFightBack]

25. I didn't see strength with saying she was 'hurt' over comments she purposefully misconstrued and

exploited. If that hurts her then trump gonna make mince meat outta her. People are turned off by the circular firing squad because of the disgusting political climate we are in. So let's go on and keep attacking each other and send whoever into the general greatly weakened. Folks will start tearing down Harris too and I don't want it!

It wasn't ruthless it was desperation. She has stalled and gotten no traction in the polls so she was desperate to make a splash...ESPECIALLY with black folks where her support is lacking. I guess she took Michelle Obama's advice.

[mtnsnake]

14. What Kamala did is the sign of a real fighter, just the kind of fighter we need to beat Trump.

Kamala Harris just might be the last person on earth who Trump wants to face in a general election.

[customerserviceguy]

30. He'd love to face her

Her gender, her race(s), the California thing, he'd relish it.

[Irishxs]

16. They all want to win. Gloves are now off.

[Cha]

18. Well if her planned coorodinated

attack was to attract more POC.. it doesn't seem to be working so far.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Biden lands 2020 endorsement from Atlanta Mayor Bottoms

"The larger context was that you have to work across the aisle with people you don't like, people you don't agree with," Bottoms said. "I do it each and every day as mayor of Atlanta in a red state."

Bottoms added that Biden's work on civil rights issues and his progressive resume demonstrate his commitment and that the remarks were blown out of proportion.

"My position is, if his explanation was good enough for John Lewis, then it's good enough for me," Bottoms added, referring to the Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was among Biden's defenders after the controversy.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/biden-nabs-2020-endorsement-atlanta-mayor-bottoms-64012750

[applegrove]

20. I sure hope the Democratic nominee has a plan or 3000 for attacking Trump.

Harris has showed she can attack. That is her job.

[TimeToGo]

28. Hmmm

[emmaverybo]

41. If she were male she couldn't be that "little boy" sad Biden hurt. She couldn't have used emotion,

effectively. She would have been seen as weak. She couldn’t bring the show as close to him, man to man; as a male, engage him so personally.

[MontanaMama]

27. Harris called Biden out on a policy that he supported

that affected her personally. Was it planned? Yes. Is it unfair? No. She prepped for the debate as she should have. Biden’s prep team should/could have prepared him for this too. It’s all strategic and some might call it theater and nothing is wrong with any of it. Let’s move forward and see what comes next.

[Demsrule86]

52. she had this pre-planned kind of fake emotional thing going on. I found it distasteful and would no

matter who I support. Not a good look for Harris in my opinion.

[emmaverybo]

77. He opposed federally mandated busing. This opposition did not affect her personally. She was

bused through a program to integrate Berkley schools that her local school board voted to
authorize. Biden did not oppose local or state programs.
She misrepresented herself as having benefitted from the federal law Biden opposed, but it was
local authority that gave her access to equal educational opportunity.
Biden supported the very kind of program, one controlled locally, that she praised as responsible for her success.
She should have challenged him on his opposition to federally forced busing and left it at that.

[Hekate]

31. 'Cause no one ever does this in politics, especially ladies. It's not ladylike...

Amirite?

[emmaverybo]

42. She was very lady like. If she hadn't been a woman, Biden could have treated her more toughly.

But he, like Obama, is chivalrous, and Kamala knew Biden would handle her emotive story less toughly as a result. She knew he wouldn’t cut in, just sit there while she used him as a prop in her drama. I don’t see strength.

[mcar]

48. Castro did the same thing the night before and got

all kinds of props for it. Gee, what could the difference be?

[patphil]

32. Kamala did Joe a favor.

She gave him a wake up call. The primary process is tough, but the election campaign is going to be a lot tougher.
Joe has got to be ready to ride out the storms of his past.
It will make him stronger.

Patrick Phillips

[Demsrule86]

53. Nice excuse...but all poor little me ...I was that girl was contrived and that is going to hurt her.

in the primary in my opinion. Maybe she got a wake up call about being genuine and honest. I liked Harris (yes past tense) but now will only support her along with the party in a general...should she win. And I don't think she will even now. I am a Democratic loyalist...I don't need excitement or motivation...beating a Republican is enough for me. I always support Democrats in every election.

[MaryMagdaline]

54. Good point!

[StarfishSaver]

33. Prepared women can't be trusted

[Demsrule86]

55. The part that I find troubling is the poor little me thing...I was that girl...sure hit Biden with

it if you think a 50 year old failed policy will help your campaign ( I don't)...but I felt she played the victim. Not a good look for a presidential candidate...and women have to be twice as tough as guys to assure voters that they can handle the job...not fair of course but none the less true.

[StarfishSaver]

57. How is talking about her own personal experience with an issue "poor little me"?

Biden earlier talked about his son's illness when discussing health care. Was he pulling a "poor little me"? Warren talked about her experience growing up and not being able to afford to go to college. Was she crying "poor little me"?

[2naSalit]

59. +++++++++++++++++

[Demsrule86]

61. It was contrived...she was not just talking about it...she had a plan so the emotional aspect seems

fake to me...and I did not like the what I considered the poor me aspect...just didn't. She is running for the presidency and needs to be perceived as tough. I found the entire thing wrong and not just because I support Biden... I don't even like her anymore...will vote for her in a general and work my ass off of course but...not in a primary. I have never liked what I consider dirty tricks or gotcha politics...just don't. One of the reasons I like Joe Biden is he is genuine. And when you plan a trick like this, you simply do not come across as genuine...Dan Rather said will she win voters because of this or lose them...I think she lost some or will as details about the planned aspect of this emerge... like the picture ready to go on twitter and t-shirts sold at the debate venue. Obviously made some before the, 'I was that girl moment.'

[StarfishSaver]

62. I see

Ok

[Demsrule86]

63. I hope I managed to convey my opinion fairly...I think Harris is too talented to use

tricks like this...she doesn't need them...

[littlemissmartypants]

34. Is it an example of "eating our own" or just an attempt to win

points with disingenuous, contrived tactics? I'd like to think that there are other, more effective, tactics that come off as less duplicitous.

[Demsrule86]

56. I agree...

[California_Republic]

36. " senator, I knew Jack Kennedy , Jack Kennedy was my friend

Sir , you are no Jack Kennedy”

[PatrickforO]

37. Like it or not, Harris walked away with the debate. She came out the winner

last night, and on Wednesday, it was Warren.

Either woman would be fine as president, and as motivated as we are to get rid of Trump, either could challenge Trump and win.

[Demsrule86]

73. We shall see what she really won...much negative push back...and stories about her

background on twitter...won't post shit about any candidate...but you can find it if you wish to.

[videohead5]

38. To bring something up from 1975 after

Biden had been the VP to the first black president for 8 years is pathetic.

[Celerity]

44. Biden made it current with his waxing nostalgic last week and in the previous months, then doubling

and very problematically demanding Booker, a black man, apologise to him, a white man, when Booker took umbrage with Biden's words, which at best, were ham-handed.

[jcgoldie]

51. What year does the statute of limitations on their own behavior run out for a politician?

Biden referenced his own history with segregationists to support his claims that he could work across the aisle. Admittedly that didn't go well for him either, but to say 1975 is off limits seems a little bizarre.

[MFM008]

43. Look

She's a politician not a nurse or a bartender.
Politicians do stuff like that.

[mcar]

46. kick

[jcgoldie]

49. She brought up Joe Biden's own history.

If you go into a debate planning to attack an opponents voting record and statements he or she has made on the record I fail to see how that is any sort of below the belt behavior. Biden wasn't prepared and he sort of got owned because his answer on local control sounded like something a republican would say. Her plan was sound and it worked.

Except now Biden fans want to criticize her for being too much of a big meanie. And I do believe there is some perhaps unintentional sexism mixed up in the assessment of her argument.

[Skya Rhen]

71. In a calculating way, she insinuated that he was a racist - way, way below the belt. She made

herself more popular at the expense of being disliked by far too many.

[Demsrule86]

50. She had t shirts...and she is dead to me as far as the primary is concerned...if she takes the

primary, I will vote for her and work to get her elected. But I have no interest in her in the primary.

[Skya Rhen]

70. Lots of people feel as you do - believe that!

[Demsrule86]

72. I have seen much negative comments about what she did and not just here either.

[Docreed2003]

78. It's the t-shirt thing that bothers me

I don't have an issue in the least with her level of preparation, I applaud that totally...the debate Thursday showed her level of preparation and seriousness even without the jab at Biden.

The fact that her team rolled out T-shirt's to raise campaign funds based off of her comment shows that that particular comment was preplanned and they intended to use it for that purpose. That bothers me...and I say that as someone who has contributed to her campaign.

[MustLoveBeagles]

82. She overplayed her hand

I don't have an issue in the least with her level of preparation, I applaud that totally...the debate Thursday showed her level of preparation and seriousness even without the jab at Biden.

^This. She'd already won the debate. Going after Biden like that was unnecessary. I wasn't impressed with the t-shirt promotion either. That's just tacky.

[Wounded Bear]

65. Perhaps Biden should have "planned" a response to an obvious potential attack...

The subject has been in the news all week. With candidates of color at the neighboring podia, it was a pretty obvious line of attack to omit from his debate prep.

[IronLionZion]

79. Trump's been winging it this whole time

I'd support a leader who does her research, plans out a strategy, and executes it like a boss regardless of the issue.

No matter how people feel about the segregation/busing issue, it's important to have thought policies through carefully and she shared her personal unique experience on it.