Ok, I'll go there: A coalition between Harris and Sanders could be very formidable.

[redgreenandblue]

They complement each other well. He has the vision and she can actually get it done.

[we can do it]

1. No.

[tulipsandroses]

2. Interesting Idea

If Harris is the Nominee I'd rather Steve Bullock though

My other wild cards is Di Blasio

In a perfect world it would be Harris/Warren - but it ain't perfect.

[watoos]

27. I agree 100% with your take on Harris/Warren

No way we have a perfect world, sad.

[rzemanfl]

3. I think she has torpedoed that a couple of times. n/t

[Cha]

4. Ok I'll go there..

Hell no.

[hlthe2b]

79. +1

I"m not going to say anything bad about either candidate, but that is not a winning pairing...

[cwydro]

81. Move over, I'll go there with you.

Not to mention, if she becomes the nominee, no way does she pick him. And there’s no way she’d accept VP with him in the utterly unlikely impossible event that he became nominee.

[Honeycombe8]

5. No. nt

[wyldwolf]

6. ...

[dawg day]

7. She has her own vision.

And she's running for president, not vice president.

[nolabear]

8. Like she needs him.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

9. He has the vision?

[Eric J in MN]

18. Medicare for All, Free Tuition, environmentalism, peace, wealth inequality

...are some of the issues where Bernie Sanders has led the way.

[Vegas Roller]

24. ...

Link to tweet

/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwgr%5E393039363b74776565745f6d65646961&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpoliticaloasis.freeforums.net%2Fthread%2F22060%2Fhaaaahaaaha-tweet-day

[katmondoo]

34. No more angy men, I want peace and some smiles.

[Eric J in MN]

36. World peace is more important than

...whether a candidate has a peaceful personal style.

Bernie Sanders opposed the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. Now he opposes the US-supported Saudi War on Yemen.

[ehrnst]

59. He went traveling around Europe when the resistance to the Vietnam war was ramping up.

Messing and Sanders left Vermont and traveled through Europe, just as the war in Vietnam was escalating.

https://vtdigger.org/2015/07/09/bernie-sanders-early-days-in-vermont-his-life-loves-and-circuitous-route-to-politics

And when saying someone has a "peaceful style," it's important to note that he voted for military action in Kuwait in 1990, and in Iraq twice.

In August, 1990 –after the Bush administration enticed Iraq into invading Kuwait– Sanders said he wasn’t “going to let some damn war cost him the election,” according to a staff member.

He also voted for Clinton administration policy of regime change in Iraq.

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: “It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.”

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: “Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.”

[George II]

62. BS was a "conscientious objector" which isn't a bad thing. But somehow his travels...

...in Europe and Israel enabled him to avoid military service.

When I was in the military at that time (inducted in 1970) I came across a number of conscientious objectors who were serving their country in non-combat capacities. That's what most conscientious objectors did - they were chaplains, medics, supply officers, etc.

Some didn't feel that sense of obligation.

[ehrnst]

63. He was certainly absent when the resistance to the war ramped up.

That seems to be left out of conversations on his peacenik/resistance to the war history.

Imagine his, or his supporters' response if anyone who opposed him claimed cred for protesting the war, and it was revealed that they were traveling in Europe at the time when the protest was ramping up...

[Eric J in MN]

67. Bernie Sanders voted against the Persian Gulf War.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1991/roll009.xml

[ehrnst]

69. The 1991 vote in context:

After being safely elected in November of 1990, Bernie continued to support the buildup while seeking membership in the Democratic Congressional Caucus – with the enthusiastic support of the Vermont Democratic Party leadership. But, the national Democratic Party blew him off, so he finally voted against the war in 1991 and returned home.

Is that one 1991 vote supposed to negate all those other votes for military action that were listed, or his 1990 support of the buildup prior to his election in November? I don't see that courtesy being extended to any other career politician who disagrees with Sanders on anything whatsoever.

[Eric J in MN]

72. I've never seen that strange theory about his motives for that vote before

...and I don't know how the writer read his mind to draw that conclusion.

[ehrnst]

73. You learn something new every day, don't you?

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)

People who were around for his campaign in 1990 knew what he said and did, and talked about it, even if Senator Sanders doesn't.

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[ucrdem]

44. Sharp.

That's a T-shirt I'll buy!

[peggysue2]

47. LOL!!

Really made me laugh. Thanks for that!

[George II]

56. Bazinga!

[sheshe2]

57. Lol

[mcar]

58. ...

[ehrnst]

60. ....

[Gothmog]

61. LOL

[katmondoo]

33. Does he mean what he says or is just using certain issues to up his chances of success?

[Eric J in MN]

37. Bernie Sanders means what he says.

Howard Dean (D-VT) opposes Medicare for All. He recently criticized Bernie Sanders for sincerity. Dean said that most candidates who say they support Medicare for All in the primary will walk that back in the general if nominated, but Bernie won’t.

Link to tweet

?s=21

[ehrnst]

70. Including his support of the Persian Gulf buildup during his campaign in 1990? (nt)

[George II]

64. Nope. I think John Dingell Sr. (if he was still here, Jr. if he was still here) and Debbie Dingell..

..would have a quarrel with your first one.

Many states/cities decades ago would quarrel with your second one (including his home state and city)

Al Gore would quarrel with your third one.

And BS' definition of the fourth and last has changed to the point where many of us don't know what he means by "income inequality". If it's rich vs. poor, FDR and others were on that before BS, and if it's women getting paid less than men for the same job, he didn't prove that out in his last campaign in 2016.

So there we have it, 0 for 4.

[ehrnst]

71. Sen. Ted Kennedy was leading the push for single payer in 1972, long before Sen. Sanders

Ted was also far more accomplished in making affordable health care into a reality, along with HRC, in the form of CHIP.

Bernie 'led" the way in environmentalism? I guess that depends on your definition of "leading the way."

I think it's pretty clear that by any reasonable definition, that credit goes to Al Gore, who was more effective in leading the way starting back in 1976 while still in Congress: In 1976, at 28, after joining the United States House of Representatives, Gore held the "first congressional hearings on the climate change, and co-sponsor[ed] hearings on toxic waste and global warming, and has continued after office with "An Inconvenient Truth" successully promoting enviromental awareness.

Peace: You think that Jimmy Carter doesn't merit the title of having led the way in Peace? Anyone can talk about peace - I do that often. That's not the same as leading, votes aren't the same as leadership.

Wealth inequality - Elizabeth Warren has moved the conversation about this more than anyone, both in her acheivements and her influence.

From 2015:

Warren's real power lies in her outsized influence, not just for a freshman senator, but for virtually any elected official in Washington. Her pen may not have touched many pieces of legislation that made their way to Obama's desk since her election in 2012, but her fingerprints are all over them.

Warren would be a strong spokeswoman for the party in Congress or outside of it; she spurred creation of a federal agency—the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau— without the title of "senator" in front of her name. But allies say Warren's best tool is her seat at the committee table in the Senate. Through hearings on the Senate Banking Committee in particular, Warren's questioning and persistence has lead to rules changes at various federal agencies without needing to get legislation through a Republican-controlled Congress. Most notably, Warren successfully pushed the SEC to require banks to admit wrongdoing in negotiating many settlements.

Even critics acknowledge that Warren's influence, particularly over federal agencies and her Democratic colleagues, goes beyond her fairly brief record of legislative accomplishment.

"She's both at the same time highly ineffective and influential—and I know that sounds inconsistent but it's not," one senior financial services executive, a Warren critic, said. "She has no legislative accomplishment other than to derail a few [nominees], which is easy to do. But to her credit, she is highly influential. Members of the House Democratic Caucus and Senate Democratic Caucus "¦ are really looking over their shoulders."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/is-elizabeth-warren-an-effective-senator/449349/


Bernie has done some good things, but saying that he "has led the way" on all of those doesn't check out when you look at the history of those issues and who has advocated for them most effectively. One can "mean what they say" and still be factually inaccurate. If after one is fact checked, they still persist in saying those things, that moves into other territory.

[lapucelle]

85. HR 676, The Expanded & Improved Medicare For All Act, was first introduced by John Conyers in 2003

and (despite having 124 co-sponsors) died a quiet death 16 years later in January 2019.

Even the fiery Independent congressman-at-large from VT was a co-sponsor in 2003, albeit a full year after The Expanded & Improved Medicare For All Act's introduction.

https://bit.ly/2EWk2G5

No senator ever bothered to draft and introduce a senate version of HR 676, considered by many advocates to be gold standard legislation, including during the last three sessions of Congress when BS was serving in the upper chamber.

To say that anyone other than John Dingell and John Conyers led the way on Medicare for All ignores Congressional history.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

50. He had the vision to not be a Republican during the Reagan and Newt Gingrich years.

So there’s that...

[ehrnst]

75. "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat," he said in a 1985

New England Monthly profile, according to Politico.

His "vision" during the Reagan and Gingrich years:

Running for Congress as an independent in 1989, Sanders penned an op-ed in the New York Times calling the two parties "tweedle-dee" and "tweedle-dum." After he won a seat in the House of Representatives, he continued to hold the Democratic Party at a rhetorical arm's length even as he moved closer to them.

After calling it "ideologically bankrupt," Sanders lobbied for admission into the Democratic caucus for practical reasons (getting coveted committee assignments, mustering votes for bills), according to news reports from his first year in Congress. But party leaders wouldn’t let him join as he refused to become a Democrat.

So there's that.

[Capt. America]

10. I don't think she would agree to be his number 2.

[customerserviceguy]

11. She's leaving him in the dust

If she thought it would benefit her to attack him, she would have gone after him on his busing stances, as well. She probably deliberately didn't raise any objections to Sanders' previous gun positions that I'm certain she doesn't agree with.

Nope, she's moving on, punching up on anyone that either leads her in the polls, or looks like they're getting more supporters in the polls.

[NastyRiffraff]

13. Nope

Nyet. Nem. Non. No. Ne. Nej. Nein. Nei.

Etc. Why in the world would Kamala want to associate with Bernie? She must know he'd try to edge her out; he has no liking or respect for women.

[yerop]

21. "he has no liking or respect for women."

You enjoyed that ugly smear so much you posted it twice.

So much for not bashing Dems.

[NastyRiffraff]

48. I don't bash Dems

He's not a Dem.

[JudyM]

54. He is far more on our side than some who were voted in as Dems. You might check his voting record.

[ehrnst]

82. You might want to check his voting record about voting on "our side"

Here's where he didn't vote with us Dems (doesn't include the Russia sanctions votes that he voted nay, or missed)

Opposed the Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks for gun purchasers and restricted felons’ access to firearms https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h614

Opposed legislation that would've maintained or created over 300,000 small business jobs through loans
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1993/roll188.xml

Opposed attempts to prevent GOP cuts for benefits for legal immigrants, Medicaid, the disabled, and children safety nets http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll329.xml

Opposed Democratic attempts to increase funding for legal immigrants and child care http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll329.xml

Opposed federal funding to help the homeless http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increased funding for nutritional programs for women infants and children http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll708.xml

Opposed funding for assisting prospective homeowners with AIDS http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed allowing breastfeeding on federal grounds http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll426.xml

Opposed legiation requiring federal agencies to create and enforce anti-sex discrimination policies http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed legislation banning imports from forced child labor http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1997/roll474.xml

Opposed funding going towards investigations of unfair trade practices http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increased education funding http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increases funding for poor students http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed legislation increasing financial aid http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Supported gutting oversight for agricultural marketing practices http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll550.xml

Opposed increased food safety and inspection http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

[Orangepeel]

14. I'm feeling Harris/Buttigieg

[PunkinPi]

40. I like this combo.

Harris can prosecute Trump and Buttigieg can take Pence to church in the debates.

In less sexist world/country, Harris/Warren.

[IluvPitties]

15. No.

[brooklynite]

16. Sander and any Democratic running mate will lose handily.

[UniteFightBack]

19. Yes losing mightily and handily indeed. +1000

[Turin_C3PO]

23. Actually polls I saw a couple of weeks ago

showed Biden and Sanders both decisively beating Trump. Now I know polls this early don’t necessarily reflect what they’ll be 17 months from now but still, it shows Sanders does have a chance.

I’m not for him though. I’d rather it be Biden, Warren, Harris, or Buttigieg, in that order.

[NYMinute]

25. Sanders on the ticket means

we'll lose 45 states.

[AlexSFCA]

89. it's impossible to lose 45 state with BS on the ticket

you are guaranteed to win CA, HI, WA, OR, NY, VT, MA and many other where his policies are very popular. But we will lose swing states including FL and PA, and possibly NV. There is not a chance BS can win FL.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. Your predictions are always on point...

[AlexSFCA]

77. BS may be the only candidate who is guaranteed to lose

in the general. AA voters know that well and you can’t win primary without their support. He is divisive to dem party at a time when unity is everything.

[Gothmog]

17. No

[lillypaddle]

22. ROFLMAO

[NYMinute]

26. Bad idea. nt

[stonecutter357]

28. lol

[snowybirdie]

29. Oh No

Two old folks lecturing to the populace! Don't think so. Electability is the word of the day.

[calguy]

30. By the this primary is over

Bernie's campaign numbers are going to look a lot like Howard Dean's.

[Curky]

31. Even though Sanders opposed busing in the 70s?

That would be awkward in light of her "that little girl was me" comment.

[Wounded Bear]

32. Free country, you can go where you like...

but I won't. Definitely not my preferred ticket. I haven't really decided on a final ticket yet, but I don't think Bernie will be on it.

[Gothmog]

35. If sanders is in the ticket, trump will win 45+ states

[Turin_C3PO]

39. He'd win my state, New Mexico.

I hope he’s not the nominee but I don’t buy that he can’t win the general election. Polls show him beating Trump by a fairly large margin. Biden beats Trump by the most, of course, which is why I believe he should be our nominee.

Whoever the nominee is, we all need to work for him/her as hard as we can and get out the vote!

[IluvPitties]

41. Sanders would lose to Trump.

People are looking for normalcy, not for a Democratic Socialist.

[Turin_C3PO]

42. That's not what polls show.

Obviously polls can change but as of now Biden and Sanders have commanding leads over Trump in a head to head matchup. Something like a 10 point and 7 point lead, respectively.

[UniteFightBack]

68. While that's true I'm sure that would change once Americans see how much their taxes would

go up under Bernie. I'm sorry but Senator Sanders is a surefire loser even though he is pushing some good ideas.

[JudyM]

84. He'd win my state, Virginia.

[lark]

38. Nope, I'd much prefer Warren/Harris or Harris/Warren.

I just don't trust Sanders, sorry to say.

Biden had a big slip on Thursday but I'm still hoping he can pick it up and show the Joe who ran in 2008 who was a really good debater. I still think if he can do that he is the beat person to be Orange Traitor Tot.

[MoonRiver]

43. Absolutely NO

[donkeypoofed]

45. NO. Just. No.

She deserves better.

[thesquanderer]

46. Not my first choice, but I would GLADLY vote for that ticket. (n/t)

[democratisphere]

51. OMG!NO!

[highplainsdem]

52. I'd give that combination a snowball's chance in hell of happening, let alone winning.

[demmiblue]

53. No thank you. n/t

[frazzled]

55. He'd make a good VP for her.

Is there a VP now? I forgot his name.

[madville]

65. Desperation move

Having to combine forces would be a desperation gimmick for a couple of floundering campaigns.

[ehrnst]

74. Bernie requires those around him to agree with him 100%, no exceptions.

That's well known.

I really don't think that will happen with Kamala.

[Cousin Dupree]

76. Harris yes. Sanders no.

[MrsCoffee]

78. Points for creativity I guess.

Sanders doesn’t compliment anyone but Sanders.

He would probably need a woman on his ticket, but besides Tulsi, don’t think anyone would join him.

[MineralMan]

80. Won't happen. Sanders thinks girls have cooties.

He doesn't say so, but it's true.

[comradebillyboy]

83. In that case I'd find another candidate to support.

I'm already wobbly on Harris because of her confused health care positions.

[LincolnRossiter]

86. How about no.

Don't think we need both the candidates that the more moderate members of the party can't stand.

[SidDithers]

87. No thanks...

Harris can pair with a Democrat.

Sid

[MrsCoffee]

90. +1

[Quackers]

88. Harris would help Sanders but he would hurt her electability. She gains nothing from it. nt

[SouthernProgressive]

91. Sanders has the vision of a Texas Salamander.

While her vision isn't always perfectly clear, I would take it over Sanders any day. You are correct that she can get things done where he has a history of not being able to.