Seriously, Joe is being taken to task for saying that making fun of gays was considered OK in some

[dsc]

circles 5 years ago. Really. I am the adviser for my school's gay straight alliance. It took six months to get approval. We weren't permitted to use gay in our name (we called ourselves the pride alliance). This was dating from 2018 and into 2019. I know there were kids who didn't come because they feared being called out. I had to send my attendance to individual homeroom teachers, instead of a list to the whole staff because I wasn't sure I could trust them to behave professionally. I have had teachers tell me others were complaining about the fact this existed. Again, this was this school year. Give me an ever loving break. On edit and literally just as I finished this post and went to look at others I was asked to adjudicate an alert on someone calling Trump gay. Again, GIVE ME AN EVER LOVING BREAK.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Obviously it's still OK in some circles now.

Those are not the circles we DUers generally frequent so maybe we don't see it as much - but like racism and sexism, it's alive and well, unfortunately.

[cwydro]

40. Oh, it's alive and well on DU.

To this very day.

[treestar]

2. Yes, current teens will still do it

I've heard it from them. And that's in this environment, where we have gay marriage and there is far more acceptance.

[MineralMan]

3. It happens every day somewhere in this country.

No question about it. And worse. LGBTQ people are still being attacked on the streets - right now! As many as a dozen transgender women have been murdered in 2018 and 2019.

Not everyone is going to the pride parades and waving rainbow flags, although more and more are.

Joe Biden was right. Maybe it happens less in Seattle, but it still happens.

[Dave in VA]

4. Thank you for this post.

Having retired after thirty-seven years of classroom teaching, I can relate to your effort. My younger brother, who passed away three years ago, was gay so I can understand the courage that it is taking for you and for the students to partake in this alliance!

Thank You!

[dsc]

6. thanks

It can be tough but is also worth it. We had a good year all things considered and I am looking forward to next year.

[emulatorloo]

5. It still happens. Not as bad now. Biden was correct in his observation. Most People have evolved

and realized it wrong, I don’t know why DU wants to twist this observation into Biden is a homophobe. He isn’t.

A real big for what you are doing with the gay straight alliance at your school. That’s amazing.

[highplainsdem]

7. You're right. My knee-jerk reaction was to say Biden was wrong to say what he'd said (and I had

that reaction even though he's been my preferred candidate for months).

But reading your OP -- which I'm very glad you posted -- reminded me that I'm in a bit of a liberal bubble at least in terms of most social situations, with the people I know best either also being liberal or being aware I'm liberal, so they're not likely to say anything I'd consider deplorable.

I'm sorry you're dealing with so much bigotry still at your school.

[brush]

8. There was pushback at the event. He should've said 20 years ago.

Biden is known for gaffes and this could cost him some LGBTQ votes because in many circles gay disparagement has not been kool for decades, if it ever was.

His staff has to be tearing their hair out as these missteps are coming more and more frequently in what's going to be a long campaign.

And it's too bad as he can kick trump's ass on the debate stage.

[dsc]

9. I wonder if the pushback was from gay waiters

or straights who may or may not have sat idly by as people made fun of gay waiters.

[jzola]

37. It was a gay event

And he was in Seattle—-it was tone deaf.

[cwydro]

41. And what's the dea with calling out gay "waiters?"

Are they more likely to be gay than other professions?

Not a good comment in my opinion. I live in a red area of a purple state, and I’ve not heard anyone make fun of “gay waiters” in years, if ever. Odd comment.

I wish he’d stop this crap.

[emmaverybo]

55. Only a day ago a fellow DUer asked us to stop with the gay Trump-Putin jokes. I think Joe

gets around socially more than most of us. I think he can spot some social progress in terms of what has become less likely to be acceptable in casual remarks or jokes and more likely to be seen as a faux pas.

I honestly think Joe gets out.

[blue-wave]

10. There is still a long way to go

for LGBT equality. Joe is correct. It seems that those who want to bring Biden down are throwing as much mud at the wall as is possible to see what will stick. In the process, they make themselves look like fools. Go Joe!!!

[LibFarmer]

11. What Joe said was accurate

All the faux outrage is because he is leading in the polls and they want to find something to pull him down.

[bluewater]

12. What crowd was Biden been hanging out with five years ago?

Who were these people that would let anti-gay slurs slide just five years ago?

[blue-wave]

14. Millions and millions of Americans

as well as millions of world citizens. You've never a gay slur in public or elsewhere? Come on now.

[Beartracks]

50. Exactly. It's not a specific crowd among the populace that would let the slur slide. Rather...

... I think there was only a specific crowd that wouldnt. And THAT's the crowd that's getting bigger, which was Biden's point.

[Dream Girl]

17. Are you kidding me? People make anti gay slurs now, you are either in a bubble or

Willing to twist any thing he says against him. He was making a good point. We still have a long way to go.

[Politicub]

18. I'm not kidding. It happened. Maybe you should try something like, "I'm sorry that happened."

Instead of lecturing me and others about being in a bubble.

[peggysue2]

22. Come on down to where I live!

It's not any 'special' crowd that Biden hangs with; it's the reality on the ground. It was far worse 10, 15, 20 years ago but it doesn't mean that the sentiment has been entirely erased. And in the Bible Belt? Hatred against gays is visceral.

The turnaround in overall 'public' sentiment is relatively recent.

[Demsrule86]

23. I have to wonder sometimes where you guys live...there is little protection for gays in jobs and

housing...and I have seen what my daughter faces...people today still let anti-gay slurs slide. Try google and look at the increasing worldwide violence against Gays...in Europe particularly.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. lol there's homophobic posts on DU for crying out loud...

How many times has Sen. Graham been mocked or suggested he was gay by so-called progressives on this site?

[emmaverybo]

56. Same as the ones here posting the gay Trump jokes? Where is it you are aiming to go with

this?

[Politicub]

13. Here's another take on it (my post from another thread). It's about how to show some empathy.

This is my reply to MineralMan in the Stop the Poo Slinging thread...


People need to defend themselves and their communities at times. And Biden supporters need to think about what they are saying when they try to stop the poo slinging.

I say this because people start defending the content of what a candidate said even if they claim he didn't say it. This is happening right now on DU about some comments Biden made or didn't make at a gay rights fundraiser in 2014.

Biden may have misspoke then. Maybe he didn't. Maybe the media didn't report it verbatim. Maybe it was a media hit job.

That's not the core issue. The defense of Biden became a problem because people are on the thread talking about how it wasn't a big deal xx number of years ago that certain behavior was okay. This makes people (me) defensive because I have been the brunt of what people are defending. It has gone from defending Biden -- who could have misspoke or who did not say anything at all -- to posters saying making fun of someone was okay xx number of years ago. Does this make sense?

Empathy. It all goes back to empathy. If people would just acknowledge that making fun people was simply wrong and not tie themselves in knots to make it seem like it was okay, the issue would go away quickly. It's no longer just a Biden problem once people start defending the indefensible. That's a different issue than poo slinging.

[dsc]

16. That isn't what Biden said

even if you believe the report was 100% the truth, he didn't say he thought it was OK, he said people would have let it go. In some cases it would have been out of cowardice in others out of silent agreement, but yes many would have let it go even five years ago.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. Some people would let it go even now.

I haven't heard those kinds of slurs for many years, probably not since the early '80s. One of the worst offenders I knew in those days was a guy who was gay himself but was really bothered by people who were "obvious." But it's been a long time since anyone I knew well enough to have dinner with would say something like that, and if they did I'm sure someone - I hope it would be me - would call them on it. Biden is correct in saying things have improved, and that generally speaking, in what used to be called "polite society" those kinds of remarks would probably not be tolerated. But you can be sure that in less-than-polite society it happens all the time, just like the use of the n-word.

[dsc]

26. The scenario Biden described sounded to me more like a business meeting

not necessarily between people who were known to each other.

[blue-wave]

19. I think the point being made on this issue

is that Joe is showing empathy by calling out this type of anti-social behavior. As a Biden supporter, I am wondering how those attacking Joe for this statement totally miss his point. People are not that ignorant.

I can only conclude it is poo slinging and those slinging are slinging as much as they can at Joe to try and bring him down.

[Politicub]

21. Thanks. This is a good example of the different lenses by which we see the world.

I need to keep that in mind for myself and what I post -- giving others the benefit of the doubt.

It's just hard to sit on the sidelines when it comes to some issues, you know?

[Cha]

62. Precisely, blue-wave.. that's all it is.

Biden's Seattle host says 'gay rights' comments overblown

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287184947#top

[Dream Girl]

32. It's not so much him misspeaking as it is the very willful twisting of his statements

The post about the gay waiter comment was willfully misleading and insinuated that he somehow endorsed that behavior or if one didn’t read too closely that he mocked a gay waiter five years ago. My advice would be to apply your critical thinking skills and think about who benefits from these tactics

[Demsrule86]

20. I told my story on another thread...gun toting deplorable went on facebook and showed up with guns..

at a unity meeting (no 'g' word allowed)my daughter was president of the group...they got little funding and no help... money was stolen from their account and was never replaced. They were treated like crap and this year my daughter had enough she disbanded the group after a faculty member told her it wouldn't look good on her resume to be a advisor...They couldn't get a faculaty advisor...so I agree things have changed but it still sucks in many places...Parent of our kids showed up by the way with cameras and the gun toters couldn't run fast enough...I was displeased with the administration's response...but now they are upset because their 'gay friendly' numbers are in the toilet and it matters to potential students...I fail to se how with the discrimination that Gays still face in jobs and housing how anyone could complain about Biden's words...maybe he is a bit optimistic in fact.

[California_Republic]

25. + 1. Venture out into those red states people

[BeyondGeography]

27. Blacks in hoodies in Chicago, gay waiters in Seattle

Those are the headlines he wrote for himself the least two days. The guy’s mind works like a cartoon and he has zero discipline. I want a nominee who keeps his opponents off balance, not his own staff.

[marylandblue]

28. The problem with his comment is that it could be taken more than one way.

And his actual point is muddied or overshadowed by the ensuing confusion. I really don't know what his point is myself. Things are better than 20 years ago. But since 5 years ago?

I see little improvement and some backsliding. More importantly what is going to do about it? It's hard to change social attitudes. I know he has practical steps in mind, but he muddled his message and this is what happens when your message is muddled.

[Turbineguy]

29. He have to destroy Biden

he threatens us all with his many years of experience.

That's why we have trump.

[delisen]

30. Are you in Seattle? Biden's comment was about Seattle and took place in Seattle

at a fundraiser specifically for Biden.

[dsc]

33. I do wonder if the push back was from a gay waiter

or a straight attendee who may have or may not have stood up for said gay waiters. Is Seattle more forward than where I live, I am pretty sure? Are there no anti gay bigots in Seattle, I highly doubt it.

[delisen]

35. There has been some positive news from Georgia recently

but also some disturbing polling regarding the younger generation.

In Blue Ridge, GA a mountain community north of Atlanta there has been a recent influx of gay people who have been buying and operating businesses and are mostly welcomed as boosting the economy. I have just been visiting in the area and was frankly surprised at how much positive change there has been in attitudes from when I visited about four years ago.

On the downside I have noted that there has been some polling showing that among young adults support for laws protecting LGBT people has been dropping recently. (More so among young Republicans than others).

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/435825-support-for-lgbt-rights-drops-among-young-republicans-survey

Appreciate your posting about your personal experience.

[cwydro]

42. Makes me wonder who he hangs out with.

Making comments like that are not common in polite circles.

He should just stop this. I still don’t get singling out “waiters.” How about a gay soldier? A gay iron worker, a gay soccer player? This shit makes me sick.

[still_one]

31. It was only a few weeks ago some here were snickering about Lindsey Graham being gay. What does it

matter if he is gay or not?

[cwydro]

43. Bingo.

Lots of gay snickering on DU.

Usually the same posters, though every now and then I see a poster I didn’t expect to see it from...which saddens me.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

36. Hey now

Don't get in the way of perfectionism.

[Claritie Pixie]

38. The truth can sometime cause discomfort.

Joe is speaking the truth and he's being attacked for it, specifically for the way he's saying it.

He's not being hateful in any way. He's not attacking anyone with his words. If he was, I would speak out against that.

I respect him for his honesty. If others don't, if others think he's not who they thought was that's totally ok.

Just don't shoot the messenger because he's speaking an uncomfortable truth.

[Thekaspervote]

54. Indeed!

[tirebiter]

39. Biden brought Obama to being pro gay rights

That’s no joke.

[wyldwolf]

44. It was only THIS YEAR that TV show Family Guy announced "phasing out" gay jokes

Not stopping them at once, but 'phasing them out.'

The latest faux outrage re: Joe Biden is just more "progressive' handwringing.

"This is why people don't like liberals. You're too high on your horse." ~ Michael Moore, responding to 'progressive' outrage of his endorsement of Wes Clark in 2004.

[onlyadream]

45. It still is, unfortunately

I even know some progressives who make jokes without realizing what they're doing (ingrained perhaps). I always reply with, "I didn't know you were a bigot" or something like that. They usually get taken aback and deny. Hopefully they'll think twice.

[McKim]

46. Well Done!

Well done!!! We don’t need to lose more gay adolescents to suicide! Growing up in the 50’s my best friend’s brother was gay. I had an early lesson in respect and love! We all deserve it!

[SouthernProgressive]

47. Some are so hard up to attack Biden...

That they are acting as if they are shocked that bigotry exists and they are supporting racial profiling just to oppose Biden. It's really sad what we are seeing.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=182180

[DallasNE]

48. You're Making A Different Point

Was Job Biden part of that circle 5 years ago that was making fun of gays? It is starting to look like Joe just blows with the wind. That is not my kind of candidate. And why does he keep stepping into it like this. No campaign discipline. That has to stop too.

[emulatorloo]

59. You're writing speculative fiction.

[MGKrebs]

49. Well when you have candidates who

Don't have this hurdle, what would you expect?

[Cha]

51. Biden's Seattle host says 'gay rights' comments overblown

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287184947

And, there's This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[still_one]

52. Thanks Cha

[Cha]

53. Thank You! Of course

we knew it before this came out.

So many tried to hay out of it and got nowhere.

[More_Cowbell]

57. He's being taken to task for using the same anecdote he did 5 years ago

Only back then, he said it would have been acceptable in 1999.

His story had pushback in 2014, yet he's bringing it up again.

He's heard complaints about how much he touches women, yet he does it over and over.

He's looking like someone who doesn't learn. Or like a senior citizen repeating the same old stories and behaviors. Neither of those is a good look for a presidential candidate.

[emulatorloo]

60. Smears that he is a "manhandling pervert" have been debunked. Perhaps you should update

your talking points.

[leftofcool]

58. It has never been OK

Yes, people do it but it has never been okay to make fun of anyone. I guess Joe gets a pass though

[emulatorloo]

61. Except Biden didn't say it was ok. Biden pushed Obama to get on board w marriage equality.

If y’all want to insinuate Biden’s a homophobe knock yourself out. However his record says otherwise.

[treestar]

63. Now it seems people get jumped on for agreeing that there was once

discrimination.