Kamala Harris wants to bring busing back.

[SouthernProgressive]

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) is standing by her support for busing as an effective tool the federal government should use to help desegregate schools.

The 2020 presidential candidate doubled down on her busing comments Sunday in San Francisco after participating in the city’s Pride Parade, according to Bloomberg.

“I support busing,” she told reporters outside city hall. “Listen, the schools of America are as segregated, if not more segregated today than when I was in elementary school. And we need to put every effort, including busing, into play to desegregate the schools.”

NY Mag

[madaboutharry]

1. That is a sure loser of an idea.

She is making a major mistake. I don't have skin in this game, but frankly it would prevent me from voting for her in the primaries.

I think busing is a 50 year old concept that is not going to work in the 21st century. The only thing busing will accomplish is creating more strife and racial divide than we are already dealing with in this country.

I honestly don't know what she could be thinking.

[hlthe2b]

10. Those of us who lived through it, even in its "best" incarnation know this is handing RW a gift.

It wasn't only racists and conservatives who fought against forced busing. There was not a unified embrace across all African Americans either. Perhaps Kamala saw something different in Oakland/Berkely. I was in the Deep South.

Clearly, segregation, resegregation, and its horrible outcomes need to be addressed... I can't imagine any Dem/Progressive would argue otherwise. We need to get one of our own into the White House to have any chance at addressing it.

Kamala has the skills, ability, charisma, and potential to break through. This is not the way.

[Kahuna7]

30. Between busing and slavery reparations..trump will win as...

the devil they know. I don't know where Democrats believe all these "progressive" voters are hiding.

[Turin_C3PO]

52. Busing and reparations aside,

there was a large study posted here that showed the general public is very much onboard with progressive goals including gun control, higher income tax on wealthy, a wealth tax, Medicare for all, and many other issues.

It was really eye opening.

[Skya Rhen]

54. The new CNN poll shows otherwise regarding MFA - the majority of the respondents opposed

taking private insurance away.

[Turin_C3PO]

56. Maybe it was universal healthcare then,

but I know a large majority approved of it.

[peggysue2]

90. Universal healthcare is definitely a winner

How we get there is something else. Abolishing private insurance is not popular. In fact, when that detail is included into the question of Medicare4All, the poll numbers take a huge dive.

[Turin_C3PO]

92. I think

the way it’s gonna work is that Medicare will be opened for all as an option. One could still keep their private insurance but the goal would be to make the public option better than private coverage.

[peggysue2]

95. Agreed!

Offer Medicare as a public option and work from there. That gives the public an opportunity to try it out and the system time to make the necessary adjustments. We're going to get there!

[The Mouth]

123. That is a winner

Taking away private health insurance? FUCKING STUPID.

[Amishman]

121. This is a great example of how the wording and specifics matter

Say Medicare for all and you get support, talk about eliminating Cadillac health plans and it flips

Same for guns; poll based on support for gun control, background checks, and red flag laws and you get broad support. Go further into broad bans and/or forced buybacks, and support drops.

Simplistic polls of I support [broad concept] doesn't tell the whole story

[LovingA2andMI]

14. Make Sure We Have This Correct:

If Kamala Harris is the Democratic Nominee, YOU could not support her?

She is making a major mistake. I don't have skin in this game, but frankly it would prevent me from voting for her in the primaries.

I think busing is a 50 year old concept that is not going to work in the 21st century. The only thing busing will accomplish is creating more strife and racial divide than we are already dealing with in this country.

You know this is 2019 and BUSING HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES WITH SCHOOLS OF CHOICE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS as well as CHARTER SCHOOLS, right? :

[madaboutharry]

20. I said IN THE PRIMARIES.

[LovingA2andMI]

22. Uh huh....

n/t....

[tymorial]

83. Um it's pretty clearly written in his post.

Pretending otherwise doesnt make your assertions true

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

78. You couldn't have been more clear....not that it prevents your words from being twisted by some.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

48. Your quote includes the word primaries so it was clear what the poster meant...I agree. I won't

support Harris in the primary...she will lose a general in my opinion...sure I would support if she won the primary but I hope to God she doesn't.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. Perhaps Kamala thinks the best way to achieve racial equality is through busing...

which, obviously, worked out well for her. Has she offered any studies to support her position?


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

2. Thank you Senator Harris

for handing the election to Joe Biden.

[JI7]

3. more likely people wo go to someone other than both Harris and Biden

Biden mostly lost support over not being prepared for the debate. not over issues.

[ucrdem]

4. Biden was prepared.

The pundits are wrong about that. And he will win on this issue.

[JI7]

7. so this was all the plan ?

[ucrdem]

12. Call it an unintended consequence.

Of a very, very bad plan.

[onetexan]

28. Agree

[Dream Girl]

128. Biden intentionally held back during the debates

You could see it on his face. He could have gone after her big time, but thought better of it.

[emmaverybo]

120. Losing one debate is not going to knock him out. The persistent smear campaign from fellow

Democrats could. And MSM is eagerly embracing it.

[SouthernProgressive]

6. I think Warren is going to be a greater beneficiary.

Though Biden is clearly in the strongest position.

[ucrdem]

8. Where?

She will lose any primary state where this becomes an issue including California.

p.s. Warren has recently expressed support for a revival of busing -- I came across her statement yesterday.

[marylandblue]

18. Warren supports a grant program to pay for voluntary busing

among other types of integration projects, so it's really a very different thing than the 70s.

[Kahuna7]

33. Warren also supports busing. nt

[SouthernProgressive]

36. I didn't see where that was included in one of her plans. Do you have a link?

I can imagine a grant style voluntary program or something like that.

[Kahuna7]

40. Yep...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/warren-biden-harris-debate-1390408

[SouthernProgressive]

43. Rock star.

$120 million in grants to support local efforts aimed at increasing socioeconomic diversity in schools, including busing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. I think you're right about that!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

50. God I hope so...

[Skya Rhen]

58. I'll bet anything that she tries to walk this back just as she is doing with MFA

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

84. Wouldn't surprise me... Kamala is obviously highly intelligent and has well-paid advisors.

She appears, however, to be showing no signs of backing off her position that busing was a good thing then and, therefore, a good thing now.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

86. It's going to be hard to walk back either after Thursday.

She raised her hand on private insurance and the same question had been asked on Wednesday. She didn't mishear the question.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

73. Yeah right, even if Kamala is off base on the issue of busing...

that hardly hands the election to anyone, including Biden. There's a reason he lost two previous primary races... there's a LONG way to go and many more issues the frontrunner needs to be vetted on. That's how democracy works... we don't "hand" the election to anyone!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Mouth]

124. EVERYONE needs to be vetted on EVERYTHING

all candidates have skeletons, stupid statements, affairs, other crap.

Getting it out there NOW lessens the power it has in the general, because say what you will about the Republicans, they know how to do opposition research. And how to hold their fire until the optimum time with some issues whilst hammering others for years before the actual election.


Kamala's banging Willie Brown? {yawn}, Biden working with bighots {snore}, I'm pretty sure Mayor Pete has a few things that haven't come to light yet, along with Gabbard, Yang and the rest, ALL are going to have stuff that makes even their most ardent supporter cringe and look stupid when defending it.

Anything that can hurt our eventual nominee is probably filed and ready for injection into the news media (unless it's something stupid they haven't said or done yet, of course).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. Agree 100% No problem with vetting candidates so long as the same standard is applied to all of them

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Mouth]

136. Well, as much as I agree

the harshest examination is naturally going to follow the front runner. DeBlasio or Yang probably don't have as much to worry about at the moment, OTOH *anything* that Harris or Warren (or of course Biden or Saunders) have ever said or done is fair game for any opponent.

Every candidate has weaknesses. the presidency will go, like many a chess game, to the person who makes the fewest mistakes.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

140. Without a doubt, which is why I don't see Biden making it to the end...

there's a reason Joe lost two prior primary races. Mayor Pete is just the opposite, having pretty much run a mistake-free campaign so far... surprising for such a young and relatively inexperienced candidate!! Goes to show you just how intelligent AND street smart he is, the latter, perhaps, being more important than the former. Anyway, good luck to your candidate!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Mouth]

142. And to yours.

Warren is excellent. I really support Pete for the silly reason that while my female friends would be very happy to have a woman, my gay friends would be even more ecstatic to have a gay person. Either is good and vastly better than anyone else running.

[Peacetrain]

5. That is not good.. not a good idea at all..

speaking of reaching back into the last century for policy.. well here go again

[onetexan]

31. We have much bigger, more pressing issues to deal with

Not sute how busing fits into the grand scheme of priorities here

[Peacetrain]

35. Honest to God.. I am

gobsmacked..

[onetexan]

62. likewise. I think Kamala got herself into a pickle by opening a can of worms here, and she now has

to make it appear like busing is part of her platform. Strange.

[Bayard]

98. Pass the torch......

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

9. Only took couple of days

To mess up.

[ucrdem]

19. Epic bungle.

Harris was raised in Berkeley and even Berkeley scrapped their busing program ten years ago. A more losing issue I truly cannot imagine.

p.s. corrected

[Demit]

27. Warren grew up in Oklahoma.

[ucrdem]

34. Right, I meant Harris, thanks. nt

[riverine]

11. Wow, the number one reason buyers cite in home purchases is location/access to the best schools.

If true this is monumental stupidity and will hand the election to Trump if Harris is the nominee.

[marylandblue]

16. Harris won't win with busing, but it could help Biden.

He wants to invest in underperforming schools. I think a lot of parents would take that over busing. Biden has a good education policy and he should talk it up now.

[jaceaf]

132. and you don't think that's a problem?

Education shouldn't only benefit those who can afford it. There are a lot of problems with our educational system. Our schools are segregated. We can't cater to voters who are scared of the people of color.

[oasis]

13. Let the "Backtrack Countdown" begin.

[crazytown]

96. Exactly.

If they know what they are doing it will be less than 24 hours.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. Certainly wouldn't surprise me to hear Kamala backtrack... if she does

she clearly owes Joe an apology, though I doubt she'd give him one. Guess we'll soon see.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[crazytown]

137. I don't think she does owe own Joe an apology

either on the merits, or the politics. However she will owe Democrats an apology is she is going on the record for bringing back mandated busing.

Politics is a tough game - there is so much at stake - the future of the Republic and even the (so called) West. My criticism of the Harris campaign is not a well planned and executed strategy, but they talked about it (too much) afterwards and rushed out (pretty poor) merchandise.

[Jersey Devil]

15. This is getting like "Back to the Future"

What next?

Just when you think someone is soooo smart they do this.

[Turin_C3PO]

17. I kinda wish this whole issue had never come up.

It seems to be a lose-lose issue for us, frankly.

[SouthernProgressive]

21. This.

"It seems to be a lose-lose issue for us"

[ucrdem]

23. It's a winner for Biden.

I doubt if he was planning to bring it up but now that it's out there this could be all he needs.

p.s. busing is about the most toxic electoral poison I can think of short of military conscription a.k.a the draft.

[Turin_C3PO]

26. If I were him, I wouldn't go after her for this.

If comes out too strongly against busing and brings it up a lot, it will look bad also.

The issue needs to go away, especially by the time of the general election. I don’t support damaging ANY of our potential nominees.

[ucrdem]

29. Oh he won't but he doesn't need to.

She already weaponized it for him on Thursday.

[BeyondGeography]

32. Agreed

He needs to move on. We all do. If we’re talking about busing in a 2020 election, we’re losing.

[Demsrule86]

53. All he has to do as talk about modern things that will help civil rights...and say this is an

improvement on our well intentioned by failed policies in the 60 and 70's...like busing. Harris has a difficult record as DA and AG...that is going to come out and it raises questions.

[ucrdem]

55. Yes this might be a distraction tactic but boy did she step in it.

Seriously, what the heck were they thinking??

[Demsrule86]

104. I agree completely...she is supposed to be the future...you know and she advocates a policy

that is a decades old failed policy...the entire thing was contrived.

[Dream Girl]

129. She boxed herself in

[Kahuna7]

69. I agree. The media is doing a deep dive on the topic...

and making Biden out as against it because he opposed integration.

Jonathan Allen, formerly of Politico, now with NBC News, wrote a long piece on Biden and busing last week that was anything but flattering. I tweeted to him, asking how would he like it if his kids were bused to the hood. He didn't respond.

[peggysue2]

85. I agree

This is a loser for everyone and a gift from heaven for Trump. Voluntary busing for magnet and charter schools is one thing. Another round of forced busing is handing a hammer to the GOP. Biden should just let this play out for the bad, dated idea it is.

[Demsrule86]

41. This is true.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

51. Yeah, supporting state's rights in a Dem debate is a sure-fire winner.

I hope somebody remembers to circle back to that gem.

[Demsrule86]

61. He didn't do that first of all and no offense but Mayor Pete was a two term elected official

and with the firing of the police chief early in his administaration, he knew there were issues with minority communities and the police and did not address said issue in a competent manner...And while states right may not play here I promise you taking away insurance, health care for undocumented, busing and reparations are going to play way worse in a general. States rights like busing is yesterdays issue and was only used to hurt Biden..but really what went on during the second debate will hurt everyone's chances in the general...Biden is still the only one who can beat Trump...the other candidates have now taken positions that will hurt them badly in a general. The GOP are smacking their lips because once again it appears we may snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. He totally said that he didn't support federal mandated action in busing.

So, yeah, states' rights. And you might see it as "yesterday's issue" but he needs to explain why he supported states' rights in a time when that was the argument against making states being so damned racist.

I think the police chief issue is going to hurt Pete, for sure. Though I think some of the problem is that he really can't legally talk about it.

"Biden is still the only one who can beat Trump." There is, like, zero polling to support that. But if it makes you feel better, have at it.

[ucrdem]

81. Thus winning the war while Harris won a Pyhrric victory.

She won't win a single primary with this including SC. And no, states rights is not the issue or policy, but at this point it doesn't matter what you want to call it.

[Demsrule86]

106. That is not the same thing as opposing integration...There is a new CNN poll out that supports

Biden as the one who can beat Trump. Biden is no racist so tread carefully here. You should not suggest such a thing.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

122. White people (of which I am one) need to realize we are all racist.

We are the product of a racist society. We need to get over the fact that being racist doesn't mean we are a bad person. There is a difference between being racist and being a Nazi or a KKK member. Read White Fragility and get back to me.

He made an argument, in 2019, that he didn't support busing because he didn't like the federal mandate. He made an argument, in 2019, for states' rights. That's problematic.

[Demsrule86]

126. If you say so...Bullshit...being a racist does make you a bad person and I for one do

not believe being white = racist...racism is a belief...one that needs to go away. And Biden is no racist.

[The Mouth]

125. Or reparations

[oasis]

133. We can't afford to scare away voters with these issues. Trump's exit

must be the focus.

[riverine]

25. There is no question it is a LOSE-LOSE issue.

We were doing so well in the suburbs in 2018.

Now the GOP talking points will include "DEMOCRATS WANT TO BUS YOUR CHILDREN INTO THE INNER CITY!"

[Turin_C3PO]

47. Normally I don't give a shit what the GOP says

but this issue has the potential to derail our candidate.

[Skya Rhen]

66. They can't attach this one to Joe. Kamala already called him out publicly about being against

busing. This is responsible for his temporary drop in the polls, so everyone knows where he stands.

Joe is not a part of this controversial policy...

[Turin_C3PO]

76. No he's not.

But if he has to keep talking against it, I worry it could affect his chances among African Americans. But maybe it wouldn’t, I don’t know for sure.

Again, it’s best for our candidates in 2020 to drop this issue entirely

[Demit]

24. That is a very good article. It lays out the central problem of how more should be done to integrate

schools.

"Harris’s contention that schools are no more integrated than they were when she was bused in the late 1960s is well-founded, though its accuracy depends on how you measure segregation (by the percentage of isolated school populations, or by the percentage of nonwhite kids who attend majority-white schools). And the research literature continues to show that minority kids benefit from attending racially and economically integrated schools, sometimes quite significantly.

"...Harris has to be careful in reviving the kind of debate that pols like Biden won a generation ago: the very terms are loaded, and to the extent that Americans today even understand contemporary school segregation and possible remedies for it, they still strongly tilt toward neighborhood schools as a policy emphasis, even if that means a significant degree of segregation. A Gallup poll taken in 1999 showed African-Americans split down the middle as to whether maintaining neighborhood schools (48 percent) or busing to achieve racial balance (44 percent) is more important. The same poll, however, showed 90 percent of African-Americans and even 54 percent of whites agreeing that more should be done to integrate schools.

So if Kamala Harris can succeed in reintroducing school desegregation as a relevant topic in national politics, while deemphasizing (without necessarily abandoning) the much-misunderstood and even demonized method of busing to achieve it, she might gain some real gratitude from the black voters she absolutely has to have in the 2020 Democratic nominating contest, and some serious traction against Joe Biden, without damaging her viability elsewhere in the electorate. She might be wise, in fact, to combine this policy commitment with her earlier plan to use federal leverage to raise teacher salaries, and make herself the “public education candidate.” Like so much of Harris’s path to the nomination, it will be tricky, but it’s doable, and would be of great benefit to the country as well as her own political future."

[Demsrule86]

39. It is a losing topic...and will lose us the general...do you think voters in the rustbelt give a

fuck about busing? Someone said how great it is that are party is liberal like the 80's. I would remember everyone that we lost every presidential race in the 80's. It was not until Clinton gave us triangulation and Perot as well that we won and Clinton never had a majority...this is a center left country and without courting moderates, we are going to lose and badly...the house may even be endangered.

[Demit]

57. I think there are people in the rustbelt who would like schools to be less segregated.

I think they would give a fuck, yes. Maybe not your white "moderates," though.

[Demsrule86]

64. In the rustbelt, we have school choice...and here in Ohio kids can attend schools not in their

geographic location...so no this is not an issue we need to work on...what we have these days is economic segregation and the fact that all schools have been starved by the feds and state governments. Run on reparations, busing and MFA and we will lose...Harris brought this up as a weapon...it is not a real issue. It was a an issue in the 60's and 70's and our attempts to address it was a dismal failure. I get that some want to justify what Harris did...by making this a real issue but it is a losing issue and we should just drop it ASAP.

[Demit]

88. You can drop it if you like. But it is a real issue.

No matter how much you hate that it is, and no matter how much you ascribe nefarious motives to people who acknowledge that it is, school segregation is a real issue.

[Demsrule86]

107. It is not a real issue. I promise you no one supports it...and Kamala continues down this road at

her own peril.

[Demit]

111. You can't promise to speak for everyone.

It is a ridiculous thing to do.

[Demsrule86]

115. Neither can you...I have an opinon as do you...agree or disagree-your choice. Have a nice day.

[Demit]

116. I don't try to. That's the difference between us.

[Demsrule86]

37. Between MFA where private insurance goes away (very unpopular) and

busing in the 21st century, we are going to lose the general and badly...the GOP are thrilled with this. Biden is the only one who can win.

[ucrdem]

38. Yep.

I think the dust is going settle very shortly to be honest.

[JI7]

45. most of the candidates do not want to get rid of private insurance

and do not want to bring back busing. Biden isn't the only one with those positions.

[ucrdem]

60. But the 3 below him all support ditching private insurance. nt

[Demsrule86]

65. The top tier candidates all raised their hands about the private insurance question except Biden.

It will be a commercial. Harris won't be able to walk it back. So the one that count did...and it is a losing issue as I warned over and over it would be.

[Kahuna7]

71. What you said plus, busing and slavery reparations...Oy!

[Demsrule86]

108. It adds up to a big loss and we simply can't lose to Trump...he is dangerous.

[Kahuna7]

112. I'm disgusted mainly with the MSM media folks and their on air commenters who

are pushing the frame that beating trump is a shoo in for any Dem. Doesn't matter who. This will only help trump and the gop. I didn't watch either debate and haven't watched MSNBC since. Why? Because at this point, they're just predictable.

[Demsrule86]

113. I am too...they helped elect Trump and beat up Hillary over the email...and encouraged divisions

between supporters of Hillary and Bernie as well.

[Kahuna7]

114. And doing the same damn thing again...nt

[watoos]

42. The right fears Kamala,

Joe also had his lunch eaten by Bennet in the debate. Extending the Bush tax cuts and passing the Sequester.

Joe needs to up his game or does his hope lie in social media covering for his gaffes?

[SouthernProgressive]

46. From Gabbard to Harris right when a controversy erupts.

Nice.

[ucrdem]

49. Gaffes don't get any bigger than reviving busing.

This is the gaffe to end all gaffes and after the business on Thursday no amount of nuance is going to save her.

[Demsrule86]

68. They are panting for Kamala...they know they can beat her...between her supporting losing issues

and her time as DA and AG, she will loses and lose badly in a general...sure I would support her in a general but I don't see how she wins..and this busing thing has made it worse for her.

[Kahuna7]

75. That's what they want you to believe. This election won't

be won on the debate stage. If that were true we'd be addressing Hillary as, Madam President. The election will be won on the framing of the issues, like it mostly always is. If, running against a "good" economy, the Dems come across as totally upending the economy we will lose in a landslide. It wouldn't even matter who our nominee is. Voters will vote for, 'the devil they know.'

[RelativelyJones]

44. I used to trust her judgement, but no more.

[mopinko]

59. she is correct.

i live in chicago. my firstborn was born in '75, the last in '93.
so, this happened in my lifetime, not some far away, long gone day.

i am white, so my kids were the ones being courted to integrate schools.
when my first was school age, there were only a couple of options, mostly for gifted kids, magnet schools.
she had a long bus ride to get to the better school, even tho we lived in a white neighborhood, and the school was decent.

now there are a ton more options. for white kids.
because they remade cps to entice middle class whites to stay in the city, instead of beating a path to the burbs when the oldest turns 5.
they have loosened up the attendance boundaries, so there is a lot more choice, a lot of programs available throughout their regions, and charters are big here.
there is a lot of choice in high schools, where it is cheaper because the kids take public transit, mostly at their own expense. each of the 5 districts got a selective enrollment college prep high.

chicago could go a lot farther by just erasing the attendance boundaries, and let people enroll their kids in any school they can get them to. which still skews middle class.
a couple years ago they tried to get out of the consent decree that was forcing them to pay for buses. i dont recall the outcome, but yeah, children of color still need the help and protection of the federal govt to get an appropriate education.

we do it better here than a lot of places, but it is still a flash point here, in the land of the deep blue.

it is probably true that this issue will stain harris, but it shouldnt.
she is telling the side of the school integration story that they wont show you on the teevee machine. i guess no one wants to hear the story of the kids whose lives were immeasurably better because the feds stepped in and made their cities provide them a public school education.

ps- you know who went to one of the few magnet high schools in chicago at the time- whitney young?











michele obama.

[SouthernProgressive]

70. Serious flaw in perception.

It's shared with many whites.

"i am white, so my kids were the ones being courted to integrate schools."

[Kahuna7]

77. How did that work out? Was it voluntary or mandated?...

If it was voluntary, did you sign up your kids to be bused?

[SouthernProgressive]

79. No clue how this is a response to my post. NT

[Kahuna7]

80. Sorry. I missed the quotation around your statement. nt.

[Peacetrain]

82. I was just reading yours too.. and then I realized your quotes were in

response to the post above you.. my guess is that they misread it too..

[mopinko]

145. the court ordered that there be a system for integrating the schools.

it was voluntary for the students, but the court mandated that it be offered. and they did sell it. magnet schools, just like the burbs for your brilliant little offspring.

i raised 5 kids here, and i have been through just about all the flavors of school choice that were there when my kids were that age, including 8 years of homeschool.
the were all crazy weirdo geniuses.
i chose to live in one of the most ethnically diverse zip codes in the country. so a segregated local school was a mathematical impossibility.
first hood i landed in when i got to the city was a dif story, tho.

[mopinko]

89. no, it's the truth.

we were flat out told that we would be accepted anywhere we had the scores to get in, because the school system had very few white kids. cps was under a consent decree, so they werent jokin around.
the middle class kids all went to whatever choice was available at the time. this is what kept the catholic schools here flourishing until cps opened up choices within the system.

[StarfishSaver]

139. Great point about Michelle Obama

As I recall, she wrote in her book about riding the city bus far outside of her neighborhood every day to attend Whitney Young

[mopinko]

143. yup. i believe she took a bus. the school is downtown.

mostly. out on the west edge of downtown, in the hospital and university zones.

the only kids of color they are really interested in serving are those that can get into the gifted programs.
schools are just one more development tool. strategery to get white people to stay in the city.

btw, that ride down lake shore drive every morning for 4 years is an education of its own. a lot was happening in the city then.
that changing skyline and that moody lake out your window on the ride to school every day could really ground you if you let it.

[OhZone]

67. Supporting this makes her unelectable -

in the general, I think.

[Demsrule86]

109. I agree...are you in Ohio? Many who live in blue areas or on the coasts misunderstand the

difficulty of beating Trump and seem to believe that somehow the country has evolved into a progressive paradise since the 18 win by moderates in the house...( I wish it were so) but that is completely not true. We run left at or own peril in a center left country.

[OhZone]

117. No, I'm on the Jersey Shore!

But, yeah, we saw all districts but one go blue in 2018!

Even though the state just about always goes blue for President, there are some conservative counties here.

All but one area went blue, though, even mine! YAY!

But, yeah we're still a pretty centrist country as a whole.

Also, sadly, the primary is basically over by the time we get to vote.

[Hoyt]

87. This comment from article shows why equal education is so important, yet we have people screaming

in opposition:

"And the research literature continues to show that minority kids benefit from attending racially and economically integrated schools, sometimes quite significantly."


Busing is not only means to integrated schools and ensure equal quality education.


Christ, this whole issue takes me right back to this:

[beachbum bob]

91. you can't force different districts to bus kids between them, Harris seems out of touch on how it

works across america. White flight to suburbs which are their own school districts vs the urban schools under their own districts. No plan would ever be accepted or work.

[Hoyt]

93. Maybe, but you can pay teachers better, ensure minority schools are truly equal, locate schools

strategically, redrawing boundary lines, allow voluntary busing, scaling back overly restrictive zoning rules, etc.


Here are some ideas, and there are plenty of other studies and articles:

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2019/01/09/is-there-a-path-to-desegregated-schools.html

[MineralMan]

94. Busing never went away. It has evolved over time.

Here in St. Paul, at least a dozen school buses pass my house in a little residential neighborhood. In this city, school enrollment is open, so parents can enroll their children in any of the city's many schools. When they do, the children get bused to the school of choice, unless is it in easy walking distance.

Now, that kind of busing is expensive, but the goal of it is to allow children to attend the schools they wish, rather than be assigned to a school on some other basis. It has helped our schools be more balanced. St. Paul is home to a very, very diverse range of people, including all races and large populations of immigrants from Asia and Africa. It's a very complex city, in ethnic terms.

Here, we bus a majority of our students, but on a completely voluntary basis. Parents decide which schools their children attend. Many opt for nearby schools in their own neighborhoods, but there are magnet schools of all kinds in the area, and schools dedicated to speeding up the process of transitioning from one culture and language to another.

Busing is used in many places, but it is not done indiscriminately nor involuntarily.

Of course busing is needed. It's how it's done that makes all the difference.

There's nothing inherently wrong with transporting students to schools.

[StarfishSaver]

97. Millions of children are bused in cities and towns across the country every day and no one cares

It's only when they are bused as part of efforts to overcome school and housing segregation that suddenly busing becomes an issue.

"It's not the bus. It's us."

[MineralMan]

101. Involuntary busing always gets a lot of blowback, and from all sides.

That was the problem with some of the early busing efforts designed only to integrate schools, but without any consideration for other concerns. That pissed off people of all segments of the population, including the historically disadvantaged segments. In many places, it was not handled intelligently, nor with any input from parents.

That's why the involuntary busing programs did not last all that long. They were hugely unpopular in most places.

[StarfishSaver]

102. The busing was "involuntary" because the desegregation was involuntary.

Where the desegregation was voluntary, so was the busing used to help achieve it.

#ItWasn'tTheBus

[MineralMan]

110. I grew up in the 1950s in a small California agricultural town.

About 4500 people. Before I started school, in 1951, the schools there were segregated. Not between black and white, though. The town was about 2/3 Anglo and 2/3 Hispanic.

There were two elementary schools and one each of junior high and high schools. There were also the surrounding farm areas, some of which had their own elementary schools, that fed the towns junior high and high schools.

So, from 7th to 12th grade, everyone went to the same schools.

Before I started first grade in 1951, the elementary schools were segregated. The oldest schools had only Hispanic students. The other school, larger and newer had all the Anglo students. I was in the first integrated class in first grade. The school I attended, which was the closest one to my parent's house, was the previously all-Hispanic school. I walked to it.

So, I didn't know anything about segregates schools. I learned Spanish from my fellow students, because that school still had more Hispanic than Anglo students. About that time, the town built a third elementary school. By the time I was in third grade, all three schools reflected the balance that existed in that town. Still, everyone walked to the school they attended, or rode their bicycles there No homes in that town were more than half a mile from any of the schools.

In junior high and high school, kids from the rural areas were bused in. I never did ride a school bus, except on field trips.

Was there still prejudice among the Anglo population against the Hispanic population? Yes, but you'd never know it at school. We all grew up in a mixed environment and it all went pretty well.

However, that was a small town, not an urban area. the system is still the same there, although the town has grown to about 15,000 and it's about 50/50 Hispanic/Anglo. All the schools reflect that ratio still.

[tonedevil]

119. A lot of times the poor planing...

was not a bug, but a feature. The municipalities that were forced to bus had already defied other methods of desegregation. That would mean the people who were in charge of designing, implementing, and maintaining the system of integration by busing were the same ones who had been resisting all along. Quelle Surprise, the systems were the worst possible nightmare especially for the population it was supposed to benefit.

[Bayard]

99. Interesting....

And sounds like a good policy. But do you have all the parents trying to sign their kids up for the "best" schools?

[MineralMan]

100. Not really, and which are the "best" schools in St. Paul is sort of hard to determine.

It depends on what you're looking for, really. We have STEM schools, schools that focus on one group of immigrants or another, a performing arts school, and a wide range of other magnet schools. We also have various charter schools, some wonderful and some not so much.

Kids are out waiting for buses as early as 6 AM in my neighborhood, so some students are spending a long time on the bus, for sure. The system only covers schools in the City of St. Paul, itself. There's no busing outside of that city's school district. We have dozens of suburban cities in the overall metro area, and each has its own school districts and schools. Some of the suburbs that are near each other cooperate with each other to allow more choices for their students, too.

I don't follow the Minneapolis school system very closely, so I'm not sure how it handles school choices.

Busing is at the core of St. Paul's school system, but it's entirely voluntary. It's also expensive, since schools are spread out throughout the city, and any kid might travel from one corner to the opposite corner of the city. That's why so many buses pass my house every morning.

On the other hand, many parents just opt to send their children to the nearest school to their home. A lot of schools reflect the ethnic variations of the neighborhoods around them still. Still, St. Paul is pretty diversified, except in a few neighborhoods.

[CentralMass]

103. On a related note, schools are more segregated then they were 40 years ago.

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

School segregation is a current issue and a growing one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/08/29/report-public-schools-more-segregated-now-than-40-years-ago/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/learning/lesson-plans/still-separate-still-unequal-teaching-about-school-segregation-and-educational-inequality.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/03/school-segregation-is-not-a-myth/555614/

https://www.newsweek.com/2018/03/30/school-segregation-america-today-bad-1960-855256.html

[CentralMass]

105. Well if you want to throw rocks, Bernie Sanders has an ambitious antisegregation plan as well.

https://berniesanders.com/a-thurgood-marshall-plan-for-public-education/
Marshall Plan for Public Education
“Every human being has the fundamental right to a good education. On this 65th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision, we are committed to creating an education system that works for all people, not just the wealthy and powerful.”

https://www.salon.com/2019/05/20/bernie-sanders-proposes-thurgood-marshall-plan-for-public-education/
Bernie Sanders proposes "Thurgood Marshall Plan" for public education

[R B Garr]

118. Wow, what continued poor judgment. I voted for her because

Obama endorsed her, but I’m rethinking that now. Arguing over busing is a disaster. Unbelievable.

[ElementaryPenguin]

127. Then she's not going to be President...and will not be the nominee

And I like Kamala a lot. But it's as simple as that. Next.

[jaceaf]

130. I was bused

It was the best thing that ever happened to me. In 1986, due to overcrowding or whatever nonsense, I was bused from LA's inner city to an affluent part of the San Fernando Valley. I got the best education to be found in LA Unified. I was a recent immigrant, and this opportunity to go to a school that was looked at differently by the UCs as told to me by a recruiter.

I got to go to UC Berkeley on a scholarship. Did the white people there like it? I am not saying, it's that simple, but it's not the awful thing people make it out to be.

[dawg day]

131. Busing never "ended"

This is one of those OMGs where later we realize it was NBD because it's been happening all along.

The years when children walked to neighborhood schools were decades ago. Even without desegregation issues, busing is the norm. Only about 14% of children can walk to school, and that's not always a good thing. In my city, the "urban kids" in the inner city mostly have to walk to school through dangerous streets during the morning commute... and that's because the school district can't afford buses, not out of some nostalgia for the past.
The Decline of Walking and Bicycling - SRTS Guide guide.saferoutesinfo.org/.../the_decline_of_walking_and_bicycling.cfm


So 84% of children (and most high school students) get to school by some motorized transport-- some by car (parents' or their own) but most by bus. Desegregation is not the main purpose.
Times have changed... but in this case, they changed decades ago.

[Chitown Kev]

141. True...I (a child of the 70's) wasn't "bussed"

but my nieces and nephews were (and this was in the 90's...in Detroit).

I had to take a bus to attend my cities magnet school but that's not what we're talking about here...I took the city bus for that

[Chitown Kev]

138. Frankly...

I think that the issue of federally mandated bussing is an election loser and I am not happy that she brought it up in this way...having said that...

...schooling is a segregated as it ever was and this is especially true in the North...so we do need to have this discussion.

[Cha]

144. Good for her.. "doubling down".