
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:18 PM
Skya Rhen (2,701 posts)
Harris Backs Away From Busing As A Federal Mandate After Biden Attack (Huffpost)
The comments section is interesting...
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-harris-busing-federal-mandate_n_5d1df665e4b04c48140fdc3f
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
49 replies, 6628 views
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Author | Time | Post |
![]() |
Skya Rhen | Jul 2019 | OP |
Hoyt | Jul 2019 | #1 | |
JCannon | Jul 2019 | #12 | |
Tiggeroshii | Jul 2019 | #16 | |
TwilightZone | Jul 2019 | #32 | |
Hoyt | Jul 2019 | #17 | |
Tiggeroshii | Jul 2019 | #21 | |
JCannon | Jul 2019 | #28 | |
Tiggeroshii | Jul 2019 | #29 | |
JCannon | Jul 2019 | #37 | |
R B Garr | Jul 2019 | #45 | |
Post removed | Jul 2019 | #2 | |
wyldwolf | Jul 2019 | #3 | |
Cirque du So-What | Jul 2019 | #7 | |
wyldwolf | Jul 2019 | #4 | |
George II | Jul 2019 | #5 | |
thesquanderer | Jul 2019 | #6 | |
Skya Rhen | Jul 2019 | #9 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #18 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #8 | |
Skya Rhen | Jul 2019 | #10 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #13 | |
treestar | Jul 2019 | #11 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #14 | |
treestar | Jul 2019 | #19 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #22 | |
UniteFightBack | Jul 2019 | #15 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #20 | |
thesquanderer | Jul 2019 | #25 | |
NYMinute | Jul 2019 | #23 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #24 | |
NYMinute | Jul 2019 | #36 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #38 | |
NYMinute | Jul 2019 | #42 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #46 | |
Mme. Defarge | Jul 2019 | #26 | |
ucrdem | Jul 2019 | #34 | |
Thomas Hurt | Jul 2019 | #27 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #30 | |
ucrdem | Jul 2019 | #35 | |
wyldwolf | Jul 2019 | #31 | |
ucrdem | Jul 2019 | #33 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #39 | |
Demsrule86 | Jul 2019 | #43 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #44 | |
Demsrule86 | Jul 2019 | #47 | |
SunSeeker | Jul 2019 | #48 | |
highplainsdem | Jul 2019 | #40 | |
Cha | Jul 2019 | #41 | |
oasis | Jul 2019 | #49 |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:22 PM
Hoyt (54,770 posts)
1. As article indicates, Biden played into what segregationists wanted -- more time to drag feet and
do nothing -- preserving separate, but unequal, schools right into 2020.
"Biden has insisted he only opposed busing ordered by the federal Education Department, and said allowing local governments and school districts to implement busing was “one of the things I argued for” at the time." ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:53 PM
JCannon (67 posts)
12. Oh fer chrissakes...
You weren't around during the 1970s. I was. Forced busing didn't ameliorate segregation. Forced busing WORSENED segregation.
Parents don't want their kids to get up before dawn to take an hour long (maybe two-hour long) bus ride to the worst school imaginable. Plain and simple. When forced to deal with that situation, parents will move to a new district. Like it or not, that's what happens. Nothing can stop it. You can scream "Racist!" all you want, but nothing can stop it. The Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that kids cannot be bused outside of their school district. And it's not as though you'll get a different deal from THIS Supreme Court. Talk to someone who lived through the 1970s. At that time, the post-Nixon era, the Republican party was on the ropes. People were talking about a Democratic stranglehold on the White House for decades. What turned it around? To a large degree, it was busing. People HATED busing. There were riots. Busing gave us the Reagan revolution. Believe it or not, busing wasn't particularly well-liked by many of the black kids who came to my school in the San Fernando Valley as part of a voluntary busing program. I know this because I talked to them. Athletic programs and after-school clubs were a real pain (especially when away games increased the travel time). Those kids spent hours on the bus every day, and they came to hate it. Even then, traffic problems turned L.A. freeways into parking lots. The feeling of confinement, of being trapped, would drive anyone nuts. I was a big Kamala Harris supporter until that debate. When she obstinately came out in favor of forced busing, it was the worst disappointment I've felt since election night, 2016. When she single-handedly wedded the Democratic party to that incredibly unpopular idea, she became the de facto chairwoman of the Committee to Re-Elect Donald Trump. Harris says that busing worked for her. Well, how long was HER travel time? Maybe ten minutes, or so I've been told. Because SHE had a good experience, she wants to make kids in Los Angeles get up before dawn to travel for hours each day on freeways that are far worse than they were in the 1970s. Talk about self-absorbed! Her attitude is almost Trumpian. And no, I do not prefer Biden. For reasons separate from this controversy, I have long believed that he must not get the nomination. I used to favor Harris. Right now, I (somewhat) lean toward Warren, though I'm keeping my options open. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to JCannon (Reply #12)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:00 PM
Tiggeroshii (11,088 posts)
16. "Forced busing" was a term coined by Lee Atwater and crew to appeal to segregationists
It is a right wing talking point and does not belong here.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #16)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:13 PM
TwilightZone (21,522 posts)
32. The term predates Atwater.
It was in use in the early 1960s, during the debate about the Civil Rights Act, when Atwater was barely a teen.
He only co-opted it. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to JCannon (Reply #12)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:00 PM
Hoyt (54,770 posts)
17. I was around, and forced busing was only used when the local white controlled government dragged
their feet.
Here's some of the states' rights BS I remember and Biden condoned when working with segregationists: https://psmag.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1240/MTU0Nzg4NTg1ODAxNzg2NDk1/b197a887c90182409ab5f9a8d4699742.webp ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:05 PM
Tiggeroshii (11,088 posts)
21. "Forced busing" was a term specifically coined to form consensus against it
And make a white supremacist goal mainstream. That term should not be repeated.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #21)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:48 PM
JCannon (67 posts)
28. Forced busing is precisely the right term
It WAS forced. So why not use the correct terminology? A blinkered insistence on euphemism isn't going to make a two-hour bus trip in Los Angeles any more palatable.
And it wasn't Lee Atwater who concocted the term. Where do people come up with this ridiculous revisionist history? Atwater was unknown then, as far as the general public was concerned. Los Angeles wasn't the south. In the 1970s, the San Fernando Valley was liberal. Working class liberals north of the boulevard, Hollywood liberals south of the boulevard. They all hated Republicans. Until busing. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to JCannon (Reply #28)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:51 PM
Tiggeroshii (11,088 posts)
29. Source of "revisionist history": New York Times, 6 October, 2005
"You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' -- that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/opinion/impossible-ridiculous-repugnant.html ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #29)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:52 PM
JCannon (67 posts)
37. That's no proof at all
That's a story from 2005, and it does not mention the term in question. Atwater did NOT concoct the term "forced busing." Atwater was Charlie Nobody in the early 1970s. You weren't around then, kid, so stop pretending that you knew what it was like. Typical Sanders supporter -- lying your head off in order to divide Americans. You can't invent fake history and then expect people to go along with your hallucinations.
Forced busing increased segregation. Proven. Indisputable. From Wikipedia. "In April 1971, in the case Bradley v. Richmond School Board, Federal District Judge Robert R. Merhige, Jr., ordered an extensive citywide busing program in Richmond, Virginia. When the massive busing program began in the fall of 1971, parents of all races complained about the long rides, hardships with transportation for extracurricular activities, and the separation of siblings when elementary schools at opposite sides of the city were "paired", (i.e., splitting lower and upper elementary grades into separate schools). The result was further white flight to private schools and to suburbs in the neighboring counties of Henrico and Chesterfield that were predominately white... ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Undecided |
Response to JCannon (Reply #28)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:24 PM
R B Garr (16,375 posts)
45. Thanks for your input. You are 100% correct about the disaster
it is to even insinuate Democrats are going to be arguing about this 40 year old issue.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #2)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:24 PM
wyldwolf (43,797 posts)
3. This
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to wyldwolf (Reply #3)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:36 PM
Cirque du So-What (20,833 posts)
7. Like that, do ya?
Got any disparaging words of your own that you'd like to contribute?
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:30 PM
wyldwolf (43,797 posts)
4. From the darling of the left to self-inflicted wound...
... in less than a week.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:35 PM
George II (67,782 posts)
5. It never should have been raised as an issue.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:35 PM
thesquanderer (11,284 posts)
6. I don't see any comments section. Hmmph. (n/t)
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to thesquanderer (Reply #6)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:40 PM
Skya Rhen (2,701 posts)
9. You would have to click on the bubble icon, on the left of the website...
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to thesquanderer (Reply #6)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:01 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
18. The HuffPo comment section is infested with right wing trolls.
Why anyone here would direct people there is strange.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:39 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
8. Misleading headline. She did not "back away from busing as a federal mandate."
Here is what she actually said, as stated in the article itself:
After a Democratic Party picnic Wednesday in West Des Moines, Harris was asked by reporters whether she supports federally mandated busing.
“I think of busing as being in the toolbox of what is available and what can be used for the goal of desegregating America’s schools,” she responded. Asked to clarify whether she supports federally mandated busing, she replied, “I believe that any tool that is in the toolbox should be considered by a school district.” That is very different from saying she opposes federally mandated school busing. As she pointed out in the debate, sometimes the school districts refuse to do the right thing. That is when the feds must step in: HARRIS: So, that’s where the federal government must step in. BIDEN: The–the federal government must– HARRIS: –That’s why we have the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. That’s why we need to pass the Equality Act. That’s why we need to pass the ERA because there are– BIDEN: –That– HARRIS: –Moments in- HARRIS: –history where states fail to preserve the civil rights of all people. https://time.com/5616518/2020-democratic-debate-night-2-transcript/ ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:41 PM
Skya Rhen (2,701 posts)
10. This is Huffpost's Headline...
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Reply #10)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:56 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
13. Yes, and you posted it, without even including Harris' actual quote.
Why?
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:42 PM
treestar (80,049 posts)
11. Any more unfair than the claim
that Biden "worked with segregationists" when he was only talking about how they could talk back then whereas now it is completely partisan?
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to treestar (Reply #11)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:59 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
14. So two wrongs make a right? Seriously?
And who said Biden "worked with segregationists"? It wasn't Kamala Harris.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #14)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:02 PM
treestar (80,049 posts)
19. She found it hurtful that he mentioned talking with them
and worked with them again busing. That was the position in general. You can't really object to parsing her words or jumping to conclusions about them when that is what happens to Biden daily.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to treestar (Reply #19)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:10 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
22. That's what I thought. You made up the quote.
And I agree, Biden's and all the Dem candidates' words are being parsed and misleadingly interpreted. Why is that ok here too? Can't we leave the misleading shit-stirring to HuffPo and Rushbo and not give it space here?
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 01:59 PM
UniteFightBack (8,231 posts)
15. She said "considered by a school DISTRICT". I think she did a pretty good job with the walk back.nt
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #15)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:04 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
20. No, she just said the school district should consider it, not that the feds shouldn't intervene.
That is not a walk back.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #8)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:23 PM
thesquanderer (11,284 posts)
25. A misleading headline from HuffPo? What is the world coming to?
![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:12 PM
NYMinute (3,256 posts)
23. Epic flip-flop
This will be noticed
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to NYMinute (Reply #23)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:13 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
24. Did you read the article? All she said was school districts should consider busing. nt
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #24)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:49 PM
NYMinute (3,256 posts)
36. She said the same thing that she attacked Joe Biden with
Then, when it created heat of "Kamala is for busing children" - because of the attack, she flip-flopped to the exact same position as Joe Biden.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to NYMinute (Reply #36)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:53 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
38. No she didn't. Her position is fed action should be part of the anti-segregation "tool box."
Whereas Biden opposed federal action on busing. That is not the "exact same position."
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #38)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 07:59 PM
NYMinute (3,256 posts)
42. You can try to spin it that way but it is obvious to everyone. nt
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to NYMinute (Reply #42)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:34 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
46. I'm not engaing in spin. I'm stating her position. She stated it again today.
Today she addressed the Biden campaign's assertion that her "tool box" statement meant she agreed with Biden:
That statement led many within the Biden campaign to say that Harris essentially agrees with Biden. She pushed back on that notion at an Indianola house party Thursday afternoon.
“Sadly, we do not agree,” she said. She said that although she currently supports voluntary busing, it was wrong to oppose it in the 1960s and 1970s when “there were forces and individuals and supposed leaders in our country who actively worked against the integration of schools based on race.” “I’ve asked him and have yet to hear him agree that busing that was court-ordered and mandated in most places and in that era in which I was bused was necessary,” Harris said. “He has yet to agree that his position on this, which was to work with segregationists and oppose busing, was wrong. Period.” https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/07/04/joe-biden-kamala-harris-iowa-caucuses-2020-4th-july-busing-school-integration-debate-exchange/1647944001/ ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:35 PM
Mme. Defarge (7,312 posts)
26. A hit and run?
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #26)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:25 PM
ucrdem (15,502 posts)
34. We're allowed to do that here ...
But this poster is not a troll. It's a holiday and people have things to do. Speaking of which happy 4th!
![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 02:39 PM
Thomas Hurt (12,616 posts)
27. sheesh, everyone including Harris should just move on from busing...
the longer any of the candidates linger on it, the more openings they give that fascist pig in the WH to use it as narrative.
Trump and his servile lackeys are good at that if nothing else. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #27)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 03:03 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
30. She was responding to a question from a reporter. It was not in her prepared remarks.
But I agree. We need to be discussing other issues. Like healthcare. And impeaching the motherfucker.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #27)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:27 PM
ucrdem (15,502 posts)
35. good luck putting the genie back in the bottle.
In my frank opinion the only way to stop this swiftboat before it ruins us is to declare a Biden-Harris ticket and call it early, formally or informally. Otherwise this thing is gonna kill us.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:06 PM
wyldwolf (43,797 posts)
31. Rev. Jesse Jackson says Harris on 'the wrong side of history' with busing
Rev. Jesse Jackson says Harris on 'the wrong side of history' with busing
The Rev. Jesse Jackson knocked Kamala Harris for her views on busing, saying the senator is on "the wrong side of history." No wait! He said that about Biden before Harris flip flopped and took Joe’s position. Ah well, Jessie. We’re waiting for you to call out Kamala. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to wyldwolf (Reply #31)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:15 PM
ucrdem (15,502 posts)
33. LOL, Joe Biden, accidental prophet.
Who knew?
![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to wyldwolf (Reply #31)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 04:59 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
39. Why should Rev. Jackdon "call out" Harris? She did not make a pro-states rights argument.
She just said busing should be part of the "tool box" to address segregation. She did not say she opposed the Department of Education ordering busing to desegregate schools. Biden said that.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #39)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:00 PM
Demsrule86 (60,330 posts)
43. Sure she did...by saying she opposed federally imposed busing she left it to the states...states
right.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 08:21 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
44. That's not what she said.
That statement led many within the Biden campaign to say that Harris essentially agrees with Biden. She pushed back on that notion at an Indianola house party Thursday afternoon.
“Sadly, we do not agree,” she said. She said that although she currently supports voluntary busing, it was wrong to oppose it in the 1960s and 1970s when “there were forces and individuals and supposed leaders in our country who actively worked against the integration of schools based on race.” “I’ve asked him and have yet to hear him agree that busing that was court-ordered and mandated in most places and in that era in which I was bused was necessary,” Harris said. “He has yet to agree that his position on this, which was to work with segregationists and oppose busing, was wrong. Period.” https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/07/04/joe-biden-kamala-harris-iowa-caucuses-2020-4th-july-busing-school-integration-debate-exchange/1647944001/ ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #44)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 09:21 PM
Demsrule86 (60,330 posts)
47. She said she had the same position as he does...so...Hope she can manage to explain herself.
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 09:25 PM
SunSeeker (47,072 posts)
48. Nope. He opposes the fed ordered busing in the 60s/70s, she doesn't. nt
![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 05:37 PM
highplainsdem (37,818 posts)
40. I'm seeing a LOT of tweets about Harris's backtracking, and they're showing up among
the Top tweets whether I'm searching Twitter for
biden or kamala harris or harris debate For instance, this from Slate's Jordan Weissman: Link to tweet and this from Sam Metz of the Desert Sun and USA Today, commenting on a TPM tweet on Harris's backtracking Link to tweet and this from CNBC's John Harwood Link to tweet commenting on a thread from James Surowiecki (Slate, the New Yorker) that starts here Link to tweet that was followed by a few unlinked tweets about her waffling, ending with this tweet: Link to tweet I even ran across this tweet from the digital TV producer for America's Got Talent (who supports Mayor Pete, judging by his tweets): Link to tweet I don't think backtracking was the meme Harris was looking for, but I couldn't help noticing how often it turned up, even from people who are definitely NOT Biden supporters. ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to highplainsdem (Reply #40)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 06:39 PM
Cha (276,925 posts)
41. Wow.. this should be an OP,
highplainsdem
![]() Thank You! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |
Response to Skya Rhen (Original post)
Thu Jul 4, 2019, 10:22 PM
oasis (48,626 posts)
49. Selling "authenticity" won't be so easy as selling t-shirts.
![]() ![]() primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden |