Bernie Sanders didn't give a definitive answer on sex work vs. sex trafficking

[brooklynite]

CNN

In two separate exchanges during a town hall in Las Vegas on Saturday, Sen. Bernie Sanders was asked how he would distinguish between sex work and sex trafficking, an issue of particular relevance to people here. But the Vermont senator could not give a clear answer.

The first question came from a woman who said she had been a supporter of Sanders from the beginning, but wanted to know how he would proceed without conflating the two terms, and what he would do about the House and Senate bills, together known as FOSTA-SESTA, that were designed to reduce sex trafficking, but have in turn made it harder for sex workers to stay on the job.

"We're going to take a hard look at it, but we're not going to give you a definitive answer now," Sanders said in response.

While making clear that he did not want an increase in sex trafficking, Sanders added, "It's a complicated issue, but there are two sides to it, and I promise you we will take a hard look at it."

[Me.]

1. "We're going to take a hard look at it, but we're not going to give you a definitive answer now"

What the heck does that mean and who is we?

[George II]

3. Wow, great minds think alike. As I was typing my response you posted yours!

[Me.]

6. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I changed my post to you so I wouldn't be a copycat

[Blue_true]

8. It is a complicated issue. You only have to read a thread on DU about the subject.

Some people believe that ANYONE offering their sexual services for money are being degraded. Some people believe that a drug-free person knowingly offering sexual services for money should be left alone. The subject is criss-crossed by religious views and politics. There are plenty of landmines regardless of how a politician wants to proceed. Bernie is right to be cautious in this area.

[Me.]

12. Not So Sure I'll Give Him A Pass

He's been running for pres for years and has had plenty of prep time and now that it has been asked and left unanswered it will be asked over and over. It's like Vice President Biden who drove his team crazy because he wasn't serious about debate prep.

[Blue_true]

14. I see your point. But I also see why he is cautious.

Sex trafficking is conflated with legitimate sale of sexual services. Too frequently, in a lot of ways, the two intersect at some point.

It is a complicated subject and legistlation need to stump out sex trafficking and give the victims a path to a better life, but not shutdown a man or woman willingly selling sexual services for $600 per hour.

[IluvPitties]

15. Well said.

[Vegas Roller]

40. And then there are the usual BS apologists

coming to the rescue of any uninformed and ludicrous comment by him. Assigning deep meaning to every word.

[LibFarmer]

38. That is his standard answer when he doesn't know the issue

He can only speak in the narrow confines of "economic injustice" and bringing corporations and rich people down.

Everything else is in the "we're taking a hard look at it" department.

[Me.]

45. Bingo

As I said, he's been at this a long time and one must ask why he is so unprepared to answer this and other questions. We already have someone in the WH who can't is incapable of giving informed answers and we don't need another.

[George II]

2. "We're going to take a hard look at it, but we're not going to give you a definitive answer now"?

He needs to check with others for a definitive answer? Also:

While making clear that he did not want an increase in sex trafficking, Sanders added, "It's a complicated issue, but there are two sides to it, and I promise you we will take a hard look at it."

Senator Sanders, sex trafficking is NOT "a complicated issue" and there are NOT "two sides to it".

[sheshe2]

4. Two sides?

[George II]

7. As someone said earlier about another candidate and another issue, this should be a disqualifier...

How can there NOT be a definitive position by a Democratic candidate on sex trafficking, what is there to think about?

[IluvPitties]

16. There are two issues there

Sex work and sex trafficking. It's better for him to really look into them before he says something stupid.

[murielm99]

10. There must be good people on both sides.

[Blue_true]

9. Some people view all forms of prostitution as sex trafficking with the sellers being degraded.

Bernie made a valid point. The different facets of sexual services for money are grossly conflated today. Some should be shutdown and people jailed because victims are being enslaved, other cases involve a person selling those services for a lot of money, all of which he or she keeps for his or her own use.

[George II]

11. Sex trafficking is sex trafficking, there is no equivocation. For him to say that in Nevada....

....of all places, is mind boggling.

[Blue_true]

13. The point that I tried to make and which I think Bernie tried to make.

Is many people are conflating sex trafficking with cases where the sex seller is not being trafficked. To properly solve the sex trafficking problem, politicians have to somehow allow for cases where a person is willingly selling sexual services.

[Vegas Roller]

41. All forms of sex work is illegal in all 50 states except some areas in Nevada

Sex trafficking is sex trafficking and it must be stopped.

[Blue_true]

48. One reason why sex trafficking is so difficult to end is draconian laws on sex work.

Maybe if politicians slowed down and tried to accurately differentiate, they would start to really dent sex trafficking.

Bernie is right, what to do is something that needs to be contemplated. We can keep doing the same old thing, which clearly HAS NOT WORKED, or we can take a more well thought approach to dealing with sex work and ending sex trafficking.

[Vegas Roller]

53. ...

[Blue_true]

54. A very intelligent way of making a counterpoint you have. Not really. nt

[Vegas Roller]

57. When the "point" is laughable and ludicrous

no counterpoint is necessary. A laugh will do.

[Blue_true]

63. Well, whatever floats your boat. nt

[IluvPitties]

19. There are organizations of sex workers and LGBTQ groups that are working for decriminalization.

I guess he is referring to them.

[Lordquinton]

59. Yeah, it is a complicated issue

and I know you want to score points for your team, especially at the expense of Sanders, but to throw sex workers under the bus for it is shameful.

[cwydro]

62. Is that the royal "we?"

My, my.

[IluvPitties]

5. I guess he is not clear on the difference.

Many people are not, actually. Organized sex workers who are fighting for decriminalization and anti-sex trafficking groups happen to be at odds from time to time.

He should be more informed, though.

[betsuni]

17. At least it's not his own plan he can't explain.

When asked for details about his student debt plan: "But we have got to ... I don't have the plan in my pocket right now."

[JI7]

21. he really doesn't have much beyond slogans

and how everyone else isn't good enough.

[4now]

18. I would sure like to see a thoughtful discussion of this topic by the candidates

Maybe Sanders really will come up with some forward thinking ideas.
I hope so.

[brooklynite]

27. Let me take a stab at a thoughtful discussion../

1. If you want to engage in sexual activity for money, you should be allowed to and be allowed to advertise your services.

2. If you DON’T want to engage in sexual activity for money and someone compels you to, that’s a crime and they should be prosecuted.

How’d I do?

[Blue_true]

50. The problem is our current laws don't make that distinction.

Sex work is illegal in all except one state, and even in that one state, it is allowed in only certain places. Our system is ass backwards and sex traffickers thrive because of that.

With our current laws, a 15 year old girl that was kidnapped and forced to turn tricks likely gets arrested instead of first being seen as a potential victim. There is no real path out for her, so even if she gets away from her pimp, she keeps selling herself because of no societal support and no job skills that would allow her to get a legitimate job. A better system would be if a 20 year old college man or woman was caught turning tricks, police would determine whether the work was forced or not. If not, the person gets released with no charges. If the work was forced, the person gets an advocate and counsellor and protection with food and housing while police look for the pimp(s).

[4now]

55. Well put. I totally agree but

I don't think that we will ever hear such things from any major Democratic Presidential candidate.
I mean look at how brave they have been about marijuana.
So I will have to hear what they have to say and then I can decide if they are trying to compare sex work to trafficking
which is a popular thing to do lately.

[Doitnow]

20. Again---here is the daily slam at Bernie.

[brooklynite]

26. Reportin how Bernie answered a question is a "slam". Got it.

[MrsCoffee]

61. Again---here is the daily victim card.

[Skittles]

22. not a Bernie fan but

is this a subject politicians are usually familiar with? First I have heard of it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. The discussion over SESTA-FOSTA was a big thing when the bill passed.

[crazytown]

23. Translation: I don't know

we're not going to give you a answer

[Eric J in MN]

24. If he hasn't taken a position by the time of the IA Caucus

...then that will be fair. I predict he will.

[crazytown]

29. To be fair to Senator Sanders,

sex work v trafficking is both a niche issue, and radioactive.

[Eric J in MN]

25. To anyone criticizing Bernie Sanders for

...not having a position on issues related to sex work:
What is your candidate’s position?

[wyldwolf]

28. Kamala Harris has her own problems in this area

As, likely, do a lot of the candidates.

She was against sex workers rights before she was for them. But at least she's clear on them now. For now...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-harris-sex-work_n_5c76ed03e4b0d3a48b56202f

[dsc]

30. I don't see a problem with his answer

the law being discussed is only a bit over a year old. It has had a multitude of consequences. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/08/20/has-sex-trafficking-law-eliminated-percent-sex-trafficking-ads/?utm_term=.9b7d4dac6382

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/4/13/17172762/fosta-sesta-backpage-230-internet-freedom

I think taking time to come up with a good solution is a better idea than just answering off the cuff.

[brooklynite]

31. How about: people should be allowed to engage in the work they want to engage in?

[aikoaiko]

34. Sure but there are real questions about how trafficking exploits legal sex work

I used to feel as you do but learned more that sex traffickers were operating in and around legal sex work.

While I still generally agree with with you we can walk away from the negative consequences by saying, “Freedom!”

[dsc]

35. the problem is making sure it is the work they wish to be engaged in

Do you know what percent of sex workers in Nevada wish to be sex workers and what percent don't? If so, I bow to your knowledge.

[brooklynite]

42. How many other industries require you to prove you WANT to do the work?

There are untrained day laborers working in unsafe construction sites, so do we require contractors to prove all their employees want to work? How about smuggled Chinese working in restaurants: does every waiter have to prove they’ve made the decision freely?

[dsc]

47. how many other industries have a history of kidnapping people off the streets and forcing them to

work? I do think some of the industries you site have a history of smuggling willing people to work and we should, and one hopes do, make sure the people are legal to work. I don't think any industry other than sex work and drug trafficking has a history of kidnapping.

[Autumn]

32. Sounds reasonable to me. Where do Biden, Harris, Pete and Beto stand on this vial issue?

[TreasonousBastard]

33. "We're going to take a hard look at it..." The bill was passed over a year ago ...

and Sanders voted for it.

So now he's looking at it?

This is one case where I'm sympathetic with his trying to avoid the minefield. I just don't like the lazy way he did it.

Pretty much everyone but traffickers hate sex trafficking, so that part is easy. The real problem is voluntary sex work-- we are still overly puritanical and divided over it. Hypocritical, too, to say the least. And very confused.

If I pay a woman to be in a movie and the movie is largely about us having sex, that is constitutionally protected free speech. But, if I pay her to have sex with me in a hotel room with no cameras, that is illegal prostitution. Gay, straight, other... the only things that make a significant difference are someone under age or under duress.

Some claim FOSTA-SESTA has actually made it more difficult to prosecute trafficking charges since evidence is less reliable, and that may be true. Law enforcement made the claim that closing Backpage merely made the ads go underground, hampering prosecutions. The ACLU and other free speech organizations claimed free speech was under attack.

All of which is a mess, and no one thinks trafficking has been reduced.

I don't blame Bernie for slipping out of this one.

[IluvPitties]

39. Good post. It is a complex issue.

[Eric J in MN]

43. I follow politics closely but I didn't know

...about the Senate vote on SESTA/FOSTA until after it had taken place.

The problem may be that Mitch McConnell didn’t schedule enough debate on it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. He was asked about this in March and didn't have an answer then, either.

[Eric J in MN]

44. Hopefully he'll take a position before the IA Caucus. NT

NT

[LibFarmer]

46. Hard looks don't happen fast. They take years.

[JI7]

49. to be fair he doesn't have answers about things he himself proposes

either.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

51. .

[Mike Nelson]

52. The correct answer is...

… "I am against sex trafficking and will do everything in my power to stop illegal activities. I do not approve of prostitution, but it is permitted in some state laws; as President, it will be my job to fight for and protect all working Americans' rights."

[4now]

56. I would love to hear this from one of our candidates

[brooklynite]

60. Why would you want a candidate to not approve prostitution?

Are you arguing that it's not possible for someone to make a decision that that like engaging in sexual activities for money?

[Kentonio]

58. Better to say you need more time than to rush out some shallow answer.

It must be tough for candidates when they can be asked about basically any issue imaginable and be expected to provide an in-depth answer on the spot.