"Keep that shit on the battlefields. Do not bring it into our communities." Beto on assault weapons,

[highplainsdem]

speaking at the AFSCME forum right now, very emotional after hearing the news about the El Paso mass shooting.

[Hoyt]

1. Great response. Gun-humpers will go nuts explaining why so-called assault weapons

really aren’t dangerous because you can only kill about 40 children a minute.

[highplainsdem]

4. I thought it was great, too, worth its own topic.

I've been following the AFSCME forum I posted livestream links for in another thread, and I haven't had time to post about each candidate's remarks, just updating that topic to kick it by mentioning which candidate is on. But this comment from Beto deserved more attention.

[BannonsLiver]

5. Yeah

My other favorite tactic is to parse and get into a bunch of minutiae about what constitutes an assault rifle blah blah blah.

And sadly I’ve seen it here as well. That’s a tactic that has been taught for a while in the gun culture. The goal is to muddy up the conversation.

[Hoyt]

7. +1. The Gungeon nomenclature game was big around here, not that long ago. If someone said "Clip"

instead of "Magazine," the Gungeoneers were quick to brand them snowflakes, or something, even though a clip and magazine have the same damn function -- feeding bullets quickly and efficiently so that the gun-lover could feel tough, intimidate people, or just kill a bunch of folks by squeezing the trigger repeatedly.

Fortunately, I think we are moving past the muddying the conversation junk. O'Rourke's "Leave that shit on the battlefield" is a good indication.

[aikoaiko]

11. Leave it on the battlefield is just the old conflation of full auto and semi-auto weapons

...that anti-gun folks used in the 1990s.

Who is muddying the conversation?

[Hoyt]

14. You gun-lovers who think your supposed right to own gunz trumps everyone else.

[aikoaiko]

16. I didn't say that Hoyt. Did you confuse my post with someone else's?

Or are you just avoiding what I wrote because its inconvenient?

[Hoyt]

18. You gunners are here to obfuscate, like always.

[Hekate]

69. Sure didn't confuse me, aikoaiko. Now I know exactly who you are and won't forget.

Thanks for clearing up any doubts I might have had.

[aikoaiko]

71. You're welcome.

[paleotn]

41. How about no....

fucking auto. Understand that? There's no need for it, unless of course you can't shoot straight.

[BannonsLiver]

25. +1000

One has shown up in this thread attempting to obfuscate. I guess basic decency is a high bar for some folks.

[DBoon]

32. Imagine if we could shut down debate on any other topic this way...

Not knowing the intricacies of the tax code means you are unqualified to have an opinion about who should pay more or less

Not being able to describe the different methods of mining coal precisely means you shouldn't advocate against CO2 reduction for global warning

Not being able to describe precisely and with correct scientific terminology the development of an embryo means you should remain silent about attacks on reproductive rights

If we applied the gun nuts' rules of debate to other policy issues, none of us would be allowed to express opinions about anything

[SleeplessinSoCal]

28. "You don't get to make decisions about guns if you can't tell the difference"

They have a million ways to deflect. But the time is now to force the issue, before the election. The NRA is bankrupt and the GOP is bankrupt of morals.

Ban all assault weapons.

[DBoon]

33. "you don't get to make decisions about reproductive rights unless you have a functioning uterus"

I'd love to see that one

[paleotn]

43. Bam! +1000!

[dalton99a]

2. Well said.

He's been attacking the NRA for years

[brer cat]

3. Amen!

[aikoaiko]

6. Are they the same weapons used on the battlefield?

[AncientGeezer]

8. Not just...at this point we have no clue what was used....

[Hoyt]

15. Yes, we are OldGeezer. I'm sure you and your gun buddies can identify these. You probably have one.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. Is that from today?

[Hoyt]

31. Sadly, yes. I got it from another thread here, but here is the article.

https://www.ktsm.com/news/breaking-possible-active-shooter-at-walmart-near-cielo-vista-mall/

[AncientGeezer]

26. If this is a true picture of the A'hole(no reason to doubt it)

That rifle isn't used on the battle field..but you know that....and no I don't have 1. I hate the AK/SKS platform with a burning passion. I told you that before.

[Hoyt]

9. It is damn sure close enough, Aikoaiko. Semi-autos can fire 40 - 60 bullets a minute. I get you

gun-lovers may find that painfully slow, or not adequate for your purposes, but the rest of us are tired of coddling people who think their gunz trump everyone else.

Oh, I see OldGeezer has shown up from the Discussionist.

[Indygram]

10. Actually, yes...

The ones used on the battlefield have a switch where you can switch from semi-automatic to automatic. The AR-15 and similar weapons are built without that switch. The military usually keep their weapons set just like an AR-15. The "bump stock" attachment turns it into the exact same functionality as the Military M16.

[aikoaiko]

13. The bumo stock attach is illegal now and without "the switch" they function differently.

So, actually, no.

We don't send our troops into the battlefield with semi-auto only AR rifles.

[Hoyt]

19. But, we sell them to gun-lovers and they use them in malls, schools, etc.

[Indygram]

55. Yet Republicans refused to make it illegal to make them

with a 3D printer.

[BannonsLiver]

12. Law enforcement had reported an Ak47 was used

Those have been used with great frequency on battlefields for decades.

[aikoaiko]

17. We'll have to wait and see if it was a real AK-47 or a semi-auto knock-off.

Because I don't know of any country that sends its troops off with semi-auto only AKs.

[Hoyt]

20. The knock-offs can kill 40 or more people a minute. The knockoffs can hold a bunch of ammo, can be

easily concealed, and make gun-lovers feel powerful, as one mass shooter put it.

[aikoaiko]

22. Hoyt, there has never been a case of someone shooting 40 people in one minute.

These killings are tragedies in reality and you don't need to use hyperbole to reduce gun violence.

[Hoyt]

27. The damn things can fire 40 to 60 bullets a minute, and you know it. Stop the gun BS.

[AncientGeezer]

35. The battlefield AK can do 600 rds/min

[Hoyt]

39. Are we complaining now about the gunz available to you guys? Damn, they only fire 40 - 60 rds/min.,

might take us a few minutes to drop 40 innocent people out shopping.

[Hoyt]

42. Still not reading in context, OldGeezer?

[Hoyt]

46. Yeah, you've been apologizing for gunz and murders for a long time.

[Hoyt]

50. Read the thread in context, Geezer. And, how about calling your Congresspeople and telling

them it's time to take action against guns.

[BannonsLiver]

21. Yeah sure

In the meantime we can recognize a lot of people arw dead and it really doesn’t matter. Anyway I don’t do minutiae with the gun crowd. Enjoy your obfuscation though.

[aikoaiko]

23. That's fine. I'm not the one who made a claim of them being on the battlefield.

[Hoyt]

29. No, you are just reading by pointing at, and mouthing, each word. We know what O'Rourke meant, and

you do to.

[AncientGeezer]

44. Yeah...but he's incorrect....

Accuracy is important.....in the debate.....and a bean can fight..and door locking
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

[Indygram]

74. No, he's not

When he refers to weapons of war he typically is talking about AR-15s which are almost identical to M4 military weapons. In fact, when Colt bought Armalite they marketed the AR15 to military customers.

https://www.dailyshooting.com/different-ar15-vs-m4/

[Larrybanal]

48. who cares what the gun was

it shot a lot of bullets fast and killed many people...the dude walked in the front door with the gun out and with ear protection on (WTF?) this is insane and it is happening almost daily....screw your gun semantics.

[aikoaiko]

51. Apparently Beto because he's differentiating

...civilian guns versus battlefield guns.

[Indygram]

56. The love of my life was murdered with an AK47

shot in the back. In just a few seconds the room was sprayed with over 100 rounds. No one needs one of these kinds of goddamned guns. You can't hunt game to actually eat with those weapons because of the level of damage. NO ONE NEEDS THESE F*CKING KINDS OF GUNS.

I am SO sick of people putting these MOTHER F*CKING GUNS over PEOPLES LIVES.

[aikoaiko]

58. I'm sorry for your loss.

I can’t blame you for wanting to ban the instrument of your loved one’s death.

[Indygram]

60. I am not anti-gun...I grew up hunting from age 12

I was taught how to shoot at a military firing range by the master at arms.
The sales and manufacturing of civillian assault weapons needs to be banned.

[Hekate]

72. How clarifying. "We'll have to wait and see"

[aikoaiko]

73. Remember this is in the context of Beto's "battlefield rifles" rhetoric

Whether or not it is a battlefield rifle is relevant to his choice of words.

Its not just Beto, though. I think most if not all the candidates want to ban some guns from civilian ownership.

[Indygram]

75. The AR-15 was marketed as a military weapon

That is where that statement he makes is coming from.

The AR-15 was originally created by Armalite (as in ArmaLite Rifle…. Not Assault Rifle) in the 1950s, but due to financial issues, they sold the rights for the weapon to Colt.

Colt began producing the Colt ArmaLite AR-15. It was designed to be a lightweight assault weapon, so as a result, Colt pitched the weapon to multiple militaries.

After some modifications by Colt, the rifle was introduced in the military as the M16.

The M4 was created as an improvement to the M16.

https://www.dailyshooting.com/different-ar15-vs-m4/

[aikoaiko]

76. Well almost every major design in firearms is marketed as a military design.

Revolvers, bolt-action rifles, pump-action shotguns, detachable magazine-fed rifles, etc were designed with military use in mind.

But the AR15 was turned into a full-auto rifle for the military and today civilians can only buy semi-auto rifles.

From your article:

"The last big difference between the two is that the M4 has either a three round burst or fully automatic firing option."

[Indygram]

77. Ban all semi-automatic weapons

period. I used to just be for banning assault weapons but I'm really sick of apologist arguments, so I'm now all in for banning ANYTHING semi automatic. Fuck it...get rid of them.

[aikoaiko]

78. A ban on semi-auto weapons makes more sense than a ban on "assault weapons"

if you actually want to reduce the number of people killed in mass shootings.

Neither ban will stop mass shootings but those types of bans could prevent the number of casualties from rising over 10 or 15 or 20.

[AncientGeezer]

37. They said AK47 "style"....it looks like an SKS...not used in battle

[BannonsLiver]

38. Ahhh that's really important

[AncientGeezer]

47. Yeah it is if credibility means anything...be accurate or don't say it.

We all call out the trumpanzees lies...accuracy should be our goal.

[DBoon]

34. "What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

If you are going to use irrelevant technical distinctions to shut down public policy debate, you may as well go full Monty Python

[mopinko]

80. this.

[SCVDem]

30. Full auto is a waste of ammo

That's why you keep it on semi.

Unless you don't care about aim and are just setting down supressing fire.

Like porn, we know a weapon of war when we see it. There is too much ego involved in this crap!

[Princetonian]

36. This is how O'Rourke needs to speak at debates.

Perhaps replace "sh*t" with "garbage".

[Amimnoch]

53. I don't think it's in him to do so.

Something like this, that he’s passionate and against? He’s incredible.

Put him against a Republican that he’s almost down the board opposed to on the issues (like his 2 debates against Cruz) and he shins brightly and hits hard.

Put him up against a pool of people that he mostly agrees with.. he doesn’t hit hard, and doesn’t really sparkly.

I don’t think he has it in him to be hard hitting like this when up against other Democratic Party members.

[Princetonian]

62. I understand what you are saying. It speaks incredbily well of O'Rourke that he is so authentic.

At my debate watch party, everyone that he had the demeanor of a statesman. At the next debate, I hope he pivots from the inane question from the debate narrator and brings up issues that matter deeply to him so viewers can see that passion.

[Indygram]

64. I've never seen one better than Beto at bringing people in and motivating them to get involved

If you haven't watched the HBO documentary "Running With Beto" you should watch it. It's incredible. What he did in Texas is historical. He could do it across the country.

[Princetonian]

65. I followed O'Rourke v. Cruz race closely so I look forward to watching "Running With Beto".

I will watch it with my family tonight. He is a great natural retail politician with a bright future.

[Indygram]

68. It's really incredible...I've watched it a few times

It's mostly about the movement he inspired and it follows a few of his supporters and volunteers through the race. It should be mandatory viewing for every Democrat because it leaves you feeling so compelled to act and get involved.

[Indygram]

57. This is how he speaks about kids in cages too

He's going to be ripping Trump and Republican law makers a new one for irresponsibly riling up hate. He will also take the stories of each and every one of these victims everywhere he goes. He doesn't get angry easily, but when he does...watch out.

[Princetonian]

63. I hope he continues to speak out passionately. No other Democrat in Texas interests me.

I have been keeping my eye on Beto since he took that trip with Joe Kennedy lll.

[onethatcares]

54. the people lying dead on the floor

don't give a flying fuck about sks/m16/ak platforms.

In fact, they don't give a shit about anything anymore.

A day shopping got all screwed up because some asshole could buy whatever, buy the ammunition for whatever, and go hunting human targets.

Now there are a lot of families having to deal with the cost, emotionally, physically, psychologically with a shopping trip to WalMart for school supplies.

[BannonsLiver]

67. Well said.

The efforts to dilute, muddy up and obfuscate are SICK.

I can guarantee those engaged in it would be singing a different fucking tune if it was their mom or daughter splayed out on the deck, shopping cart at their side, in a pool of their own blood. That’s what I saw today on a video from the scene posted on Facebook.

[The Mouth]

59. Best one sentence summation yet. period.

[essadaw]

61. This is heartbreaking

We need an assault weapons ban. It is mind boggling that this is even still controversial. It probably wouldn't be except for the NRA.

[Hekate]

70. Good for Beto. That is direct and to the point. nt

[Cha]

79. KICK!