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[left-of-center2012]

This message was self-deleted by its author (left-of-center2012) on Mon Jan 6, 2020, 09:44 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[LonePirate]

1. Has he paid attention at all during the past 10 years?

We need a nominee who is not in denial about how awful and uncooperative the Republicans are.

[Garrett78]

10. Either he's delusional or he thinks this is the best way to become president.

If it's the latter, so be it. If it's the former, yikes!

[Cha]

62. Of course, that's Biden's Strategy.. he

did persuade John McCain to vote No on the Repeal of ACA..

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/07/31/report-joe-biden-called-mccain-with-tearful-plea-to-save-obamac/23057819/?

Skya! https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243674

[lapucelle]

244. Did someone just say that a Democratic vice president wasn't paying attention

during a significant portion of his tenure and somebody else then speculate that he might be delusional?

[Cha]

376. Yeah, not too smart.

[Butterflylady]

120. If anyone here thinks that this election can be won

With only democratic voters you are sadly mistaken.
It's going to have to take both democrats and repugs votes especially in the swing states.

[at140]

309. I think you are making a valid and realistic point!

Biden wants to unite the country, which is bitterly divided right now.

[qazplm135]

325. no, not really

election absolutely can be won simply by turning out the base.

The republicans do it every election they win. We did it in 08 and 12.

[Garrett78]

331. Turning out the base in larger numbers than we saw in 2016 is the key to winning in 2020. Period.

The vote was suppressed in 2016 for a variety of reasons, including Russia and the fact that Clinton had been the target of a smear campaign for a quarter of a century.

It's a base election, folks. Turn out the base in larger numbers and the impact will be felt everywhere, including in that much-discussed trio of states. Spend some time targeting rural areas in a few key states, but the key is not winning over white male Trump supporters. The key is firing up and turning out the base in much larger numbers. That has to be the primary objective.

[still_one]

478. There are some who definitely live in a bubble. Even Sanders not that long ago was

was implying similar things about some trump supporters, realizing the political realities of moving outside his base


The ironic thing is that these "judges" of political correctness ignore is that NOT ONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEES is going to campaign that they will not try to work with the opposition party, or group them "all as evil", because they realize by doing so they are actually attacking the supporters of those republicans.

Another interesting observation is how many of the same people who are so upset about this, appeared to equally upset when Hillary referred to some of the trump supporters as deplorable, as though that was the worst thing to say.

Yes, some definitely live in a bubble

[dansolo]

496. Or just get them to not vote for Trump

Biden is taking the anti-deplorable route. He is going out of his way to not criticize Republican voters. I don't think that he is really expecting them to vote for him, but if he can get them to just stay home, he'll win.

[RandiFan1290]

127. .

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2019, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

.

[Joe941]

133. Fair enough but I'm not the one calling him delusional...

That would be those I responded to.

[lpbk2713]

138. And you should take your ageist slurs elsewhere as well.

Just because someone you don't agree with is a senior it
doesn't automatically make them "senile" as you said.

[UniteFightBack]

493. Delusional as in dump delusional? Yeah self delete. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Got that right!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[DonaldsRump]

2. Wonderful!

I know many, many people who thought they were Republicans, but are now no longer.

This is not D and R. The fate of this country hangs in the balance. While I think Joe's the right person, there is absolutely no question that I will support the D nominee, whomever he or she is.

Period. Full stop. End of discussion.

[TheBlackAdder]

495. I'm praying he meant, "There are a lot of really God awful Republicans out there" and misspoke.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Look, Joe, saying this is not good.

You're living in the past and that sort of bipartisanship just does not exist these days. It's delusional to think that it does.

I will vote for you if you get the nomination, but it won't be the joyous act of a truly committed Democrat. I will be sad for what might have been.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. I know Joe means well... but, geez, it's not good is right!

That's truly the best you can say. It seems that time had passed Joe by... sad to see.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

353. "Sad to see."

You forgot your sarcasm tag thingy.

[House of Roberts]

4. Why couldn't the Dems get 60 Senate votes to break filibusters then?

It wouldn't have taken more than two or three 'really good Republicans'.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

246. Thought the same thing.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[JudyM]

484. And it has only gotten worse.

They’ve become more partisan, more entrenched and empowered, regardless of their numbers.

[rpannier]

5. List please

I'd like a list of those decent republikkans on Capitol Hill.
Because as far as I can tell, none of 'em ae in any position of authority.
The closest in the senate is probably Murkowski. After her is ... no one
As far as the House goes, maybe someone retiring

And as to being intimidated by il douche... they're not good, decent people, they're cowards. Decent people don't do cave and assist people like il douche bag

As someone much smarter than me once said, "It's not the person doing the evil that's the problem, it's the people letting him get away with it that are."

[Princetonian]

95. Can someone who voted Republican for two-thirds of their life until 1996 be a good, decent person?

[rpannier]

119. Of course

I can go to a closer period, the early 2000's
I have always thought the Chafee's are good, decent people
I just want to know who these people in congress now are good and decent (Murkowski is a possibility)

[Princetonian]

135. I understand. Liz has gotten good and decent Republicans to co-sponsor her bills. She would know.

Joe spoke through the night with McCain to convince him to vote NO to save ACA/ObamaCare.

All Senators in the Democratic caucus try to reach across the aisle or their bills won't pass. They are in the minority. Elizabeth has a good track record on this:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

Bernie voted with Republicans against undocumented immigrants:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

Joe, merely said what Bernie and Elizabeth already know. I will bet you that a reporter asked Bernie and Elizabeth about what Joe said, they would both agree with Joe.

I believe Pete and Beto would also agree with what Joe said because both are from very red states where they would not have succeeded without appealing to and working with Republicans.

[rpannier]

137. I see your point, andf maybe they would. Maybe not. But, I still want to see a list of who they are

Co-sponsoring bills does not equate to anyone thinking the republikkans are good or decent
I don't think FDR or Churchill thought Stalin was a good or decent person, but they made a devil's bargain with him in order to win the war

And as to Mc Cain... he doesn't count any longer as he is no longer in Congress. I want to see who the good and decent people are now

[Bradshaw3]

222. Anyone who compares repubs of 1996 to what's going on now is delusional

Even Reagan worked with O'Neill and things like national security were taken seriously by both sides. To try and compare Warren of 25 years ago to repubs today is a really sleazy way to make a BS "point" just to justify another blunder that makes people question Biden's understanding of our current politics.

[Celerity]

430. the poster is being very disengenuous about Warren, see post 428

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287243601#post428

[Bradshaw3]

433. Thank you for that great post!

Hope you don't mind if I use some of your research in the future if similar tactics are tried.

[Celerity]

434. YW, and feel free to use anything I post whenever/wherever you wish

[BlueMTexpat]

482. This! eom

[Celerity]

428. If you are referring to Warren, you obviously have done very little research or are just

pushing extremely misleading memes. I am not a Warren supporter atm, but I am tired of seeing the same claptrap spread about her for months.

Can someone who voted Republican for two-thirds of their life until 1996 be a good, decent person?

I say that's very misleading,as she was only a registered Repug for around 5 years (1991-96) and the only Rethug POTUS

she voted for was Ford.

1972 McGovern (she hated Nixon)
1976 Ford
1980 Carter (she did not like Reagan)
1984 Mondale
1988 Dukakis
1992 Bill Clinton
1996 (the last year she was a registered Republican, she switched before the 1996 general election) Bill Clinton
2000 Gore
2004 Kerry
2008 Obama
2012 Obama
2016 Hillary Clinton

She registered Repub in PA in 1991 because she like Arlen Specter (ironic as he too changed to Democratic)

Do you also have issues with former Republicans Howard Dean, Leon Panetta, Chris Coons (has Biden's old seat in the Senate), Carolyn McCarthy, Harley Rouda, Gabby Giffords, James Webb, Wendy Davis, Gil Cisneros, Jim Jeffords, Patrick Murphy, and Specter himself, etc.etc etc.? Some of them even ran (oh the HORROR!) for President.



Also, you sure as hell do not see Warren going and giving a 200,000 USD paid speech at a Republican fundraiser for a Republican Representative named Fred Upton ( who had just voted to repeal Obamacare a few months before and also voted to end pre-existing conditions protection ) in Michigan right before the 2018 elections.


More on Warren:


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/12/elizabeth-warren-profile-young-republican-2020-president-226613

Warren has acknowledged her Republican past before, but she does not often discuss it, or else downplays it. In a recent interview over tea at her home in Cambridge, Massachusetts, she said she assumes the first time she registered as a Democrat was 1996, but added, “I’m not even 100 percent sure what I was registered as.” According to Warren, in the six presidential elections she voted in before 1996, she cast her ballot for just one GOP nominee, Gerald Ford in 1976. She does not talk about her Republican past in either of her books or as part of the biography she recounts in her stump speech; the information often comes as a surprise even to Beltway politicos and longtime Warren allies.

https://thinkprogress.org/why-elizabeth-warren-left-the-gop-e78680711424/

Warren has quickly become a populist hero to liberals. Stephanopoulos, host of ABC’s The Week, noted something in her background that “might surprise” her supporters: the fact that she has voted Republican in the past, and was a registered Republican in Pennsylvania from 1991 to 1996. Warren said she left the party after that because she felt it was siding more and more with Wall Street:

I was an independent. I was with the GOP for a while because I really thought that it was a party that was principled in its conservative approach to economics and to markets. And I feel like the GOP party just left that. They moved to a party that said, “No, it’s not about a level playing field. It’s now about a field that’s gotten tilted.” And they really stood up for the big financial institutions when the big financial institutions are just hammering middle class American families. I just feel like that’s a party that moved way, way away.

Warren’s instincts on the GOP’s sympathy for the big financial institutions proved prescient. Former Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX) spent the 1990s spearheading legislation that made the 2008 financial crisis possible: the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which broke down the firewall between commercial banks and the far riskier investment banks, as well as the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which deregulated the over-the-counter derivatives that played a key role in the 2008 financial collapse. Both bills passed with majority Republican support, though they were also supported by a good deal of Democrats and the Clinton White House.

snip

She grew up in an FDR Democratic household.

Her first vote the POTUS was AGAINST Nixon in 1972. She did vote for Ford, but liked Carter. She voted Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984. In 1988 she voted for Dukakis, and in 1992, Clinton. Obviously voted for Clinton again in 1996 and every other Democrat since then. She registered as a Republican because she had moved to PA and liked Arlen Specter, who also switched to our Party from Republican.

Her first presidential vote, in 1972, had been cast against a man she said she disliked passionately, Richard Nixon. But reflecting on how little she had paid attention to day-to-day politics at the time, she couldn’t immediately recall who had been running against him. When told it was Democrat George McGovern, she said, Yes, she would have voted for him but didn’t have any specific memory of having done so. (She was living in New Jersey at the time.)

Going to the polls, she said, was nothing new for her. Warren’s mother had been a poll worker and brought her young daughter to the polls each Election Day.

Nixon was re-elected that year, of course, but resigned and was replaced by Gerald Ford. Warren said she had voted for him in 1976, believing that “Ford was a decent man.”

But she was happy with Jimmy Carter, who beat him. “I thought he [also] was a decent man,” she said, transferring her then-standard for what she wanted in a politician from Ford to Carter. “He was a really good man.”

As the ’80s wore on and her research on bankruptcy progressed, Warren started waking up politically. At the time, though, the two parties had yet to separate entirely along ideological lines, as some deeply conservative and racist Democrats still held office, as did some genuinely liberal Republicans.

In 1988, Warren voted for Michael Dukakis but, in 1992, split her ticket, voting for Republican Arlen Specter for Senate and Democrat Bill Clinton for president. Specter is a good example of the one-time flexibility of the party system and the politicians within it: He began and ended his career as a Democrat, but was a Republican for much of the middle of it.

By the fall of 1987, she had moved to Pennsylvania and registered there as a Republican. Warren said she couldn’t quite remember why she did it but that she was a fan of Specter. “Again, I thought he was a decent man,” she said. She couldn’t recall whom he ran against. (His Democratic opponent was Lynn Yeakel.)

That GOP registration, though, has set off speculation over the years that one of the Senate’s most progressive champions may have at one time been a Ronald Reagan backer.

So we asked her: Is it true? Is it possible the champion of the regulatory cops on Wall Street voted for the man who made deregulation a hallmark of his presidency?

No.

In 1980, she said, she was a registered independent living in Missouri City, Texas, and cast her vote to re-elect Carter.

When Reagan won, she wasn’t happy but not crushed the way she was on election night in 2016. “I was disappointed and didn’t like him, but I wasn’t deeply worried for the country, not anything like when Trump was elected,” she explained. If she could go back in time, she said, she would tell herself “this was a far more pivotal historical moment than you understand.”

snip


Warren also has the lowest Trump Score in the entire Senate


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/



compare that to the highest Democrats

[Bradshaw3]

432. Wow that slammed the door on that "tactic"

Great job of research and fact-based reasoning. As I wrote it was a sleazy tactic the poster was trying but you shut it down for this thread and every other future one. Thanks again for the info.

[Celerity]

462. and yet it is still being done, exact same rot

[Bradshaw3]

463. Yep, I tried to answer it the other day on another thread

Some people aren't going to listen, or they just have their candidate and they feel free to use whatever tactic to attack others.

[Celerity]

464. I stepped in and back-filled for you on that one (you had mentioned me in your initial reply)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287251645#post293

that is my definitive post de-bunking all the Warren-was-a-Reagan-voting-Rethug tosh (it also has the most up-to-date info too, and goes into the most evidentiary detail)

I should get an honourary Warren badge for the many times I have fought that bollocks, lololol

maybe she picks Pete for her VP if she wins the nomination

[Bradshaw3]

465. Thanks, that was some great information

It's funny that the attackers will take Warren's word on who she voted for whe it was a repub but not so when she says she voted for Democrats.

Thanks again even though you support another candidate. It shows you are being fair in your assessments of the 2020 field.

[Celerity]

466. I think it madness to viciously attack other candidates, it only hurts our chances to beat Trump

Especially if you piss off other supporters to the point they stay home or vote 3rd party (which they should know better, but the real world is not completely full of political junkies who care passionately.)

ZERO wrong with vetting and asking tough questions about policy, etc. on the other hand. I wish there was more policy debate (not just the ubiquitous MFA tug of war, which even though it is policy, is used a cudgel far too often) and less vitriolic gouging and goring.

Cheap shots, smears, distortions, etc, nope, I have really tried to avoid that. Buttigieg was the victim of that here in the very beginning, but that stopped. The cop shooting in June is what did him in, he was really climbing up the charts when that tragedy occurred, even gaining rapidly with black voters in SC (of all places, his weakest state, he was at 6% and seeming climbing every week or two, up from zero) but that nightmare, and the aftermath, scuppered him for this go-round I am afraid.

He is cursed with being a mayor in a mid-sized city that is too small for one bad thing (like say in NYC or Los Angeles) to get buried, and yet too big for bad shit not to happen. Also, a mayor (especially a mayor in a 'strong' mayoral system like South Bend has) is on the line for all blame in his jurisdiction, unlike a House member or a Senator. A governor, too, but only mostly for statewide big (or potentially big) issues plus corruption, ie, Christie's BridgeGate. No one is slamming the IN governor Eric Holcomb for that cop shooting (they should as Holcomb is a scumbag Rethug who is in the NRA pocket! and helps add to the hate and racism.)

[loyalsister]

179. They made a choice

Republicans who lived through the cold war chose Russia and Trump in order to get the policies they wanted. That includes many who are still in office. I suppose the NRA figuratively held guns to their heads but intimidation is not enough to forgive or justify giving in and supporting Trump and his agenda.
What would have been a valid point in 2015 can not stand up now. They picked a side and it was not us.

[SharonClark]

205. Agree 100%

[dalton99a]

6. The good people who see nothing, hear nothing, speak nothing, and defend Trump at every turn.

Do you really have to praise Republicans in a Democratic primary, Joe?

[delisen]

454. He also dissed the Democratic challenger

in the race against Upton-R by not responding to his request to say something positive about him too.

That was in 2018---when Democrats were desperately trying to take back the House and gain a foothold in order to stop or slow down Trump's destruction of our country.

[Skittles]

7. no, there IS NOT

anyone who supports a party that is homophobic, misogynist, xenophobic, anti-science, anti-worker etc IS NOT A GOOD PERSON

[Princetonian]

94. Is someone who volunteered for Goldwater & was/voted Republican until 1996 NOT A GOOD PERSON?

[Skittles]

389. it's what you are *NOW* that counts

if you're still supporting the Greedy Old Pig Party:

[Celerity]

468. this is flat out rubbish, Warren did not volunteer for Goldwater and the only Repug POTUS candidate

she ever voted for was Ford in 1976. Warren was 14 years old when Goldwater officially launched his campaign in 1964. I think you are trying to conflate Warren with Hillary Clinton, who was indeed a Goldwater supporter (although she was too young to vote in 1964, and she had switched to supporting the Democrats by 1968.)

full detail is here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287251645#post293

[democratisphere]

8. Joe Biden is one of the very few that can and will reach across the aisle

to work with the closeted "never drumpfers". Hell Joe might even get a drumpf supporter or few to work with him on legislation AFTER Joe is elected President.

[elleng]

53. Yes.

Bye, all.

[SharonClark]

215. Yeah! He might even put a few in his cabinet

<<sarcasm>>

[ucrdem]

217. Doubtful. nt

[democratisphere]

236. You never know what you might find in the rethuglicon closet.

[TCJ70]

301. Which ones will vote for the public option he wants? N/t

[democratisphere]

341. Got to start somewhere.

Eventually Medicare for all will become the reality, but not going to happen to start.

[TCJ70]

314. Which ones will vote for the public option he wants? N/t

[Skya Rhen]

344. The same ones who are going to vote for Warren's and Sanders' Medicare-for-all. Boom!!!

[BlueWI]

456. To be fair, Sanders consistently says

that no real change is possible without a massive increase in citizen participation in politics. I've heard a lot less from Biden on what conditions are needed to get his priorities passed.

[Celerity]

469. The Public Option, even if we hold the House, and take back the Senate by say 51-49 or so, will not

pass. It too is a pipe dream, unfortunately. The electoral map has been so artificially skewed to the right that there are at least 50 centrists in the House and probably 5 Dem Senators (or more) who will never vote for it. Big Healthcare, Big Insurance, and Big Pharma will drop in hundreds of millions to fight it, just like they did the last time. They already are bashing even Biden's plan. There are trillions upon trillions of dollars at stake, they will stop at nothing to crush even the PO.

[BlueWI]

470. Good points as usual!

[Celerity]

471. thanks, and I take zero pleasure in playing the role of the pessimist, our healthcare system

is one giant wealth extraction scheme. At current rates of increase we are going to be spending close to 6 trillion USD per year by 2027, 2028. That is madness. I see some posts that claim there are hardly any profits being carved out now, which is simply ludicrous. In the past 10 years, we have spent around 33 trillion dollars. ONE health insurance firm alone (UnitedHealth Group) has made over 66 billion dollars in net profits over that time span, 12 billion USD in 2018 alone, 22.5 billion in the last 2 years, and are on track to make 150-160 (or more as they continue to expand so scales of economy will act as multipliers) billion USD combined net PROFIT between 2019 and 2028. That is RAPACIOUS, and it is mostly skimmed off of the middleman role of for-profit INSURANCE.

Look at the massive difference between what the US spends per capita versus the rest of the nations, and the gap is only going to get larger.



The only way this system gets fixed, given the current political/structural landscape is more than likely via partial systemic collapse, as there is simply no way this rate of cost/profit increase can continue decade after decade. The ACA cost increases where back-loaded to kick in starting around 2017 or so and forward. That year is when, for example, United Health's profits exploded. Citizens United and other endemic factors have opened the spigot to the raw buying and regulatory capture of our entire political/governmental superstructure by Big Healthcare, Big Pharma, and Big Insurance. That is only being exacerbated under the odious Trump administration's deregulatory schemes, which if they get their big 'win' at SCOTUS level and the entire ACA is trashed, will expedite this entire situation even more timeframe-wise towards a catastrophic outcome.

[George II]

9. Here we go. Our daily dose of Biden Bashing.

[George II]

25. What does this OP contribute on a site named "Democratic Underground"? Don't understand the point.

[LonePirate]

35. It pushed public opinion to favor other candidates in the primary.

[highplainsdem]

40. This isn't going to hurt Biden. It'll just be one more trivial complaint by people opposed to him

anyway.

[Skya Rhen]

47. +1000

[NYMinute]

67. Not likely at all nt

[Demsrule86]

268. What is wrong with getting the other side to vote for you and my brother is GOP still love him

and he is not a bad person...he says he will vote for Biden ...hates Trump now.

[Skya Rhen]

346. Thanks - you are a voice of reason!

[Eliot Rosewater]

279. All designed to divide us, and it is working...I know who is doing it on twitter and HERE

[Hassin Bin Sober]

12. Sounds like cuts to "entitlements" to me.

[emmaverybo]

20. Biden will never cut Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. You are taking a leap. NT

[George II]

27. "Entitlements", which is a right wing term anyway, aren't even mention anywhere here.

[Cha]

37. Well, of course it does.. but you're wrong.

[SharonClark]

218. I'm baffled. What logic did you use to get to that conclusion?

[LanternWaste]

445. Sounds: That's what happens when we hear rather than listen.

Sometimes though, listening to a thing is much more effective and informative than simply hearing a thing. But I get it... listening objectively often denies us our narrative.

[pangaia]

13. The are either cowards or willingly complicit in the attempted murder of democracy.

[Princetonian]

14. Nobody here knows 1/10000000 what Joe knows about Congress so I trust him.

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. WTF? Not any more. They are the cult of trump. Not helpful, Joe. And, not true.

[highplainsdem]

16. These paragraphs are the most important from that article:

But, Biden, who leveraged his decades serving in the Senate to help become one of the Obama administration’s chief negotiators on Capitol Hill, has maintained that reaching across the aisle is the only way to implement long-lasting change.

“If you start off with the notion there's nothing you can do, well why don't you all go home then, man? Or let's start a real physical revolution if you're talking about it. Because we have to be able to change what we're doing within our system,” Biden said in June.

He's right.

We're probably going to need votes from a lot of people registered as Republicans, but disgusted with Trump, to have an electoral college victory, and not just a popular vote victory, in 2020.

And we're probably going to need cooperation from some Republicans, even if we have a narrow Democratic majority in the Senate, to get major pieces of legislation through Congress.

[R B Garr]

17. +1, Biden obviously realizes there are Never Trumpers

out there.

[Cha]

31. Biden is optimistic about getting future

votes from repubs on something he'll want passed.

He's not automatically discounting them. The opposite would be to diss them as hopeless.. that's not Biden.

RB

[R B Garr]

38. Yes! They are not going anywhere, so poaching a few of

them is useful and necessary to actually winning and getting things going.

Hi Cha!

[Cha]

39. Hi RB!

Biden already said he "..was going to get into trouble for this..".. and this is it. lol

Aloha!

[jberryhill]

18. "why don't you all go home then, man"

One of the under-appreciated and IMHO adorable quirks of Joe Biden is that he still uses "man", as in, "Groovy, man".

Hey man, here's some cool cats for you on a Saturday night....

So, let's dig that beat, Daddy-O.

[emmaverybo]

22. Whole lot better than some of the language I see thrown around on social media. NT

[highplainsdem]

29. Obama does, too.

Check out this White House transcript of his remarks at the 2012 WHCD:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2012/04/29/remarks-president-white-house-correspondents-association-dinner

Chuck Todd -- love you, brother. (Laughter.) I’m delighted to see some of the cast members of Glee are here. (Laughter.) And Jimmy Kimmel, it’s an honor, man. (Laughter.) What’s so funny?

Now, I know at this point many of you are expecting me to go after my likely opponent, Newt Gingrich. (Laughter.) Newt, there's still time, man.

I haven't noticed him using the word that way as often as Biden does, but I know I've heard him use it lots of times when speaking casually.

[Cha]

33. That's right.. I remember Pres Obama

saying "man" now!

[jberryhill]

34. That's funny

Come to think of it, yeah he did do that.

[Cha]

19. "If you start off with the notion there's nothing you can do, well why don't you all go home then,..

man?"

Thanks for these, highplainsdem!

[George II]

28. C'mon man, rational and sensible interpretation? What are you thinking?

[Chemisse]

113. He is right. But he should save this rhetoric for the general election if he is the nominee.

Our candidate will need to appeal to independents and unhappy Republicans. We can't just scrape by with a win; it must be an overwhelming win to overcome the forces that will be acting against us in the election.

Working across the aisle - if it can still be accomplished - would be the way to bring us back into having a functioning democracy, which would be to all our benefits. Biden knows what that looks like and he has the personality to try and make it work. Perhaps pointing that out is helping elicit donors.

[Andy823]

171. So then if it had been

Harris who said this first, about good republicans, you would back her up and defend what she said?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

197. Of course NOT!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

191. Agree! For Biden to just immediately say all repubs area shit and not going to consider them??

Really??!! How’s that gonna work when we, the Dems DESPERATELY need one or 2 of their votes.

Please explain... I will wait for your answer

[treestar]

438. I like the second paragraph in that quote

it is quite accurate.

[Princetonian]

21. Great OP. Joe is a real statesman who knows how to build a coalition government.

The Obama coalition included Obama Republicans. Does anyone here think any Democratic candidate will beat Trump with just Democrats given independents are the largest voting bloc?

[emmaverybo]

24. That it did. Obama sent Joe in to negotiate--and Joe helped Obama get done what he wanted doing.

[ancianita]

23. USED to be, Joe. Used to be. You want to invite them in now? Because they always leave our

cleaned up house the way they find it, right?

That's what they tell you, Joe. Don't believe them. That's what they want you to think: "Not all of us are like Trump!"

It's part of their Lucy with the football promise of bipartisanship.

They're not intimidated, Joe. They're just the coward faction full of fearful sentimentalists who will support tyrants, so their shriveled hearts can feel great again about being better than somebody.

They will never return to bipartisanship again, Joe.

"For as long as we live and breathe" say the Koch brothers, who OWN them. Don't take your old bipartisan knife to a Koch fight.

That's what it's come to, man.

[BootinUp]

26. I'll take build on Obama's legacy please. Nt

[SharonClark]

229. The Legacy that those 'good' republicans are successfully tearing apart?

[BootinUp]

330. The legacy that will help

Win this next election big, huge even.

[betsuni]

30. That's what Americans want to hear.

Most people think both sides are too partisan and why government doesn't work. I know it's hard for us to hear because but that's what the American people say they want.

[Ponietz]

42. Most of the non-voters I know think both parties are the same

[betsuni]

44. Yes, I shouldn't have said voters, I changed it. I meant Americans in general.

[Skya Rhen]

46. And that's why Biden is leading in all of the national polls...

[JI7]

56. yeah, no candidate who is actually running for office is going to say something different.

[melman]

57. Then how come he's the only one say this?

[JI7]

61. because he gets more republican votes than others

[Cha]

64. Like the BlueWave House Victory in

2018 when over 40 Red seats were Flipped to BLUE!

[MineralMan]

223. +10 to the 256th power.

[Thekaspervote]

262. Because he knows there will come a day when those 1-2 gop votes may mean the difference

Between keeping SS, Medicare or Medicaid. So he’s telling the voters what he is about.

It would be great to throw all the m...fuc...res to the wolves. I’m sure he thinks so too, at times. So there you have it....the game of politics.

[melman]

32. Oh my goodness

That is an unfortunate statement.

[jberryhill]

36. Sure... why there's Bob Dole, Dick Lugar, Arlen Spector... lots of them

[TSIAS]

82. Two of them are dead

And Bob Dole will likely be joining them soon.

Id like Joe to list the Republicans he thinks are "good people", aside from those who are already Never Trump.

There aren't really good people on both sides of this debate. And those like Scaramucci and Omarosa are opportunists who want to get off the sinking ship first to save themselves.

[LanternWaste]

446. Our closely-guarded narratives often force us to cherry-pick.

But I get it... objectivity is often something to overcome rather than accept.

[Skya Rhen]

41. Case in point - Joe helped to convince McCain (a decent Republican) to "thumbs down" the repeal of

Obamacare.

This is the reason that we still have the ACA today - a vital piece of legislation that is saving lives. This is real stuff and Joe knows what he is talking about.


*************************************************************************************

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/07/31/report-joe-biden-called-mccain-with-tearful-plea-to-save-obamac/23057819/?


Did Joe Biden convince John McCain to save Obamacare?

That's the conclusion some are drawing after a report from the Washington Post stated Senator McCain was called by former Vice President Biden, who made an emotional plea to vote against the "skinny" repeal of Obamacare.

Biden purportedly reflected on the death of his son Beau Biden, who died of the same brain cancer McCain has been diagnosed with.

Former Senator Joe Lieberman also reportedly called McCain ahead of the vote. With the drama of a thumbs down gesture, McCain effectively killed the republicans' seven-year efforts to repeal and/or replace Obamacare, at least for now.

[Cha]

48. Yes, we have Obamacare bc Biden Convinced

McCain to vote No!

Thank you, Skya!

[betsuni]

54. +1

[ucrdem]

85. +1,000,000

[Freethinker65]

43. Well, Republicans are an awful lot!!!!!

[melman]

45. Adam Parkhomenko

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Princetonian]

51. Joe was VP for 8 years. Parkhomenko presided over a failed presidential campiagn.

Who should I believe?

[delisen]

70. Merrick Garland.

[Cha]

87. Yeah, Biden couldn't make moscow mitch

hold a vote.

[Princetonian]

109. Joe was not referring to Moscow Mitch, who is why Republicans have been intimidated.

[Cha]

49. McCain.. We ACA bc Biden convinced McCain to vote NO..

Mahalo, Skya! https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243674

[JI7]

50. i guess if you include the dead ones going back to Lincoln

[Deb]

52. Biden carries a big unity stick. How refreshing!

Next thing you know, clean fun could be brought back into politics.

[Cha]

63. Good way to put it, Deb.. "Biden carries a big

unity stick."

He's an optimistic kinda guy.. he imagines it's possible.. that he can create it.

I wouldn't want to say.. No You Can't to the VP.

[yaesu]

55. good and republicans should never be used in the same sentience. nt

[Capt. America]

65. How did that "grand bargain" with Obama and the Rethugs work out?

[Cha]

66. Instead of saying.. ".. there's No hope for

repubs.. end of story".. he's being optimistic and leaving the door open.

He did help persuade McCain to vote NO on ACA repeal.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

68. smart !! We need to get the small fraction of Republicans who are 1/2 sane !

[UniteFightBack]

494. It's called good politicking !!!! nt

[VarryOn]

69. Biden believes what he said...

although I expect he’ll walk it back in the next day or so. Even though he believes it, he can’t go around saying it if he’s going to win the Democratic nomination.

While I don’t think he ultimately wins the Democratic nomination, his quote comes across as one you’d make if you thought you had it in the bag. It was a total general election thing to say.

[still_one]

71. What I find amusing is when Sanders said pretty much the same thing a while back, many of the

same folks complaining now had no problem with that, and ironically when Hillary referred to many republicans as deplorable, the usual suspects were there condemning her for voicing such a thing

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Selective memory is quite interesting among some

Nothing to see here though

[betsuni]

72. Was thinking exactly the same thing.

[still_one]

74. I would expect some of the more "outraged" in this thread will be disappointed indeed if any

Democratic candidate who does NOT go into full attack mode against registered Republicans will be equally “outraged”

[BootinUp]

79. +1

[Lordquinton]

81. Link?

"pretty much the same" isn't the same.

[still_one]

83. Its there, but I will give you a better link where Sanders doesn't think trump voters are racists,

sexists or homophobes

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/326820-sanders-defends-trump-voters-i-dont-think-theyre-racists

"pretty much the same: isn't the same

LOL

It isn't only the same, its worse

[Joe941]

98. Interesting indeed

[Chemisse]

114. I was never comfortable with the 'deplorable' label.

Although I never voiced that here since people were so pleased with it.

I like believing in and seeking to bring out the better sides of (almost) all people. I really like that Joe Biden has that same kind of belief in the potential goodness of people.

[still_one]

123. I agree. It may be "feel good" catharsis for one's followers, but generalizations

like that serve very little purpose

[Voltaire2]

255. Voters vs legislators. Not the same to.

But I agree that Sanders was wrong. Republican voters are either utterly ignorant of what is going on or they are in fact enthusiastically supporting fascism.

[TreasonousBastard]

390. Can we make it to 400 posts? There's still time.

[NurseJackie]

490. Fascinating.

[myohmy2]

73. "There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there,"

...but there's an awful lot more really bad republicans out there...most republicans are scum...

...does he really want to be our President?

...unbelievable...

...

[Skya Rhen]

76. This is Biden's consistent message. Would you recommend Sanders to say that there's an awful lot

more of really bad republicans out there and for him to say that most are scum. Do you believe that would be a winning message that would bring up Sanders' poll numbers.

Just asking, because this might just be a winning strategy for his campaign.

[myohmy2]

134. Yes!

...we tried your way with a corporate establishment candidate and lost...

...now it's time to try a non-corporate non-establishment candidate and win...

...it's only fair...

...

[LanternWaste]

447. "I do not believe that most of the people who are thinking about voting for Mr. Trump are racist..."

"I do not believe that most of the people who are thinking about voting for Mr. Trump are racist..." Sen B Sanders

My guess is you'll pretend a distinction lacking a relevant difference. But that's only a guess.

[YOHABLO]

75. Sorry but no, no. Intimidated? Leave the damn party.

[still_one]

84. Who are you suggesting to "leave the party"?

How do you feel about a campaign that hires people who voted for Jill Stein to high positions in his campaign, and have no regret doing so

[BeyondGeography]

77. Fine, but that shouldn't be a major campaign theme for any Democrat

[jberryhill]

78. To be fair - they are an awful lot

[RockRaven]

80. This is asinine -- McConnell is not going to work with Biden any more than he worked with Obama...

And Biden+VP are not going to succeed at pulling individual Repuke Senators away from McConnell any better than Obama+Biden did -- which is to say "not at all when doing so made a meaningful difference."

And if anyone wants to object that Biden was talking about more just than the Senate, well working with the "other team" is fucking pointless in the House because you never need more than the simple majority. You either have it, and you get your shit done, or you don't and the other side owns the Speakership and pulls a McTurtle-style maximal-obstructionist act. Does Biden not remember how Boehner and Ryan operated?

If Biden wants to say something conciliatory about Republican *voters*, that would be one thing. Maybe that's a campaign strategy of some kind, to court GOPers who have soured on Trump. But he didn't. He talked about *Capitol Hill*. That means *elected Repukes*, not the people who voted for them.

Biden should stick to explanations of the advantages of a Biden presidency which are based in reality. Calling Congressional GOPers "decent people" is a goddamned lie -- Democratic candidates should leave that behavior to Trump.

[Cha]

88. Who says moscow mitch is definitely going to

be in the Senate then?

[betsuni]

89. Well, Senator Sanders' idea to get McConnell to do the right thing is to hold rallies.

When asked by Rachel Maddow what he would do as president if McConnell still held the majority in the senate, he said, "I would be in Kentucky holding a rally with tens of thousands of people ... . We're going to rally the American people in Kentucky. We're going to rally the American people in Mississippi. We're gong to rally the American people in South Carolina to demand that their representative -- I know this is a radical idea -- actually do what the American people want."

Why would McConnell be bothered by rallies.

[Laffy Kat]

86. He wants their votes. I get it .

I don't like that he said it, but I get it.

[hlthe2b]

90. He has a point; unfortunately, MOST of them are dead...

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2019, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)

There are a few Never Trumpers with whom I can agree to disagree, even though I would never fully trust.

[Princetonian]

96. Warren found "really good" Republicans to co-sponsor her bills and has a good record of doing this.

In fact, Elizabeth Warren has found Republican Senators to co-sponsor some of her bills (ranked 4th among Democrats) and has a very good track record of doing this in the most recent records available (115th Congress).

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/elizabeth_warren/412542/report-card/2018

Elizabeth actually walks the walk.

Permalink: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

to BlueMTexpat

[Princetonian]

91. What if Joe was/voted Republican until 1996?

What if Joe had been Republican for the first two-thirds of his life?

What if one of Joe's best friends in high school described him as "a diehard conservative" back then?

What if Joe had volunteered for Barry Goldwater, the iconic template for modern conservatism?

What if Joe had remained a Republican despite the fact that Nixon vetoed a plan for national, subsidized child care in 1971?

What if one of Joe's neighbors who he used to carpool with in the 80's said he was sometimes surprisingly anti-consumer in his attitude?

What if he only became involved in politics in 2012?

[Voltaire2]

92. Were they also intimidated from 2008-2015?

When they obstructed everything?

Biden is talking utter bullshit. He might think this is a good way to get elected. But if he actually believes this he is delusional.

By the way he is talking about legislators not voters, and the only example anyone has come up with in this thread is the deceased McCain.

Biden: stuck in a mythical past.

[Princetonian]

93. Without Joe, ObamaCare would be dead. He spoke to McCain until they were both crying...

... begging McCain to vote NO on that crucial vote which was dramatically televised.

Which McCain did.

[Voltaire2]

149. Again, all these wonderful Republican legislators

apparently consist of one dead Senator who managed once, at the very end of his life, to do the right thing.

[Princetonian]

178. Um, Collins and Murkowski also saved ObamaCare.

[Voltaire2]

247. ok so we are down to 2 breathing legislators

Meanwhile the rest of the Republican caucus in both chambers are lockstep full fascist votes.

Neither Collins or Murkowski voted against Kavanaugh, and they are both dependable gop votes in the senate, Collins at 68% and Murkowski at 74%. This is the ‘fertile ground’ Biden can tend to build the grand coalition Obama utterly failed to build for 8 years. Good luck with that.

What we need is to vote these fuckers out, not pander to them.

[Princetonian]

348. Discussing how he would build legislative consensus at a private fundraiser is not "pandering".

It is likely someone asked Joe how he was going to pass legislation. Joe was crucial in saving ObamaCare. He spent all night convincing McCain to vote NO.

No one is disputing we need more Senators. Have you contacted Bullock to urge him to runfor the Senate? I have and hope he will drop out in the next couple of months to run for Senator.

Thank goodness Hickenlooper dropped out to run for Senator.

No way Pete can win a Senate seat in Indiana.

Beto is not considering another run as Senator. Cornyn is a tough one to unseat.

Anyone else?

[SharonClark]

208. Bingo

[Joe941]

97. Oh Joe...

Very disappointing.

[Princetonian]

100. Bernie voted with Republicans against undocumented immigrants.

How do you feel about Sanders exciting admiration from Steve King, who doesn't see anything wrong with the term "white nationalist and who thinks most of us got here via rape and incest?

It is notable that Representative Steve King... admired Bernie's position on immigration.

Permalink: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

to murielm99

[Joe941]

102. What is appalling is bidens praise and working with segregationists

[Princetonian]

104. Bernie must agree w/Joe. He voted w/Republicans against undocumented immigrants.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

[Joe941]

99. Is this like his praising his working relationship with segregationists?

And the civility they showed each other?

[Princetonian]

105. Bernie has a working relationship with Republicans who voted against undocumented immigrants.

And he voted with them:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

[Joe941]

106. Trying to make this about Bernie huh?

[Princetonian]

107. Joe, Bernie & Elizabeth must agree on this. They have all worked with Republicans.

Joe spoke through the night with McCain to convince him to vote NO to save ACA/ObamaCare.

All Senators in the Democratic caucus try to reach across the aisle or their bills won't pass. They are in the minority. Elizabeth has a good track record on this:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

Some, like Bernie, has voted with Republicans against undocumented immigrants:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

Others, like Joe, merely say what Bernie and Elizabeth already know. I will bet you that a reporter asked Bernie and Elizabeth about what Joe said, they would both agree with Joe.

Ditto Pete and Beto, both from very red states where they would not have succeeded without appealing to and working with Republicans.

[Autumn]

148. There's nothing else.

[Princetonian]

272. Talking about Steyer's bid for POTUS?

[Autumn]

364. Talking about how people who don't want to discuss their candidate always deflect to another.

Sad to say but I think when that happens it's because people know the support for their chosen candidate, whoever that might be, must be very soft.

[Princetonian]

384. Speaking of support, what's Steyer polling at now? A hard 0.5%?

[Autumn]

407. It's all good. A lot of candidates are just as low or lower. The race has just begun.

So far he's not had to walk anything back, no "misspeaks" and he knows what he's talking about.

[Thekaspervote]

263. Hi Joe, I believe you were the one that changed the subject

[Skya Rhen]

122. Why Bernie Sanders Loves the Most Conservative Man in the Senate (by Daily Beast)

“Jim is a climate-change denier. He is really, really conservative, but you know what, he is a decent guy and I like him, and he and I are friends,” Sanders told CNN’s Jake Tapper.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-bernie-sanders-loves-the-most-conservative-man-in-the-senate?ref=scroll

[FloridaBlues]

101. Sad to say I have many republicans in my family but they are not horrible people.

Yes we disagree on politics but they are not hateful people. We can't lump everyone one together.

[Joe941]

103. Do they support tRump?

[FloridaBlues]

116. Yes some of them still support trump we just stopped talking politics

[Joe941]

117. I hear ya...

[NNadir]

228. I understand that they're family, but if they STILL support Trump, an open racist...

...I can not imagine that they are "good" people.

[honest.abe]

111. Yep, I have same situation.

We dont talk politics to avoid arguments. I think they might have voted for Trump in 2016 but seem to regret it now.

[Voltaire2]

152. Are they legislators?

Biden was speaking about Republican legislators, and how he can work with them because they are secretly wonderful people who are just intimidated by Trump.

This is a dangerously wrong perspective.

[SharonClark]

211. Thank you for the clarity when some try to muddy the water.

[Thekaspervote]

267. Yes, thank you!! It is a dangerously wrong perspective

[Skya Rhen]

350. When Joe said there are good Republicans out there - obviously he meant those around the country.

Hence the term "out there". He then went on to talk specifically about those in congress. He spoke about the two groups.

[Voltaire2]

382. Er no, he was specifically referring to legislators.

“They’re decent people. They ran because they care about things, but they’re intimidated right now.”
- from the op.

And he has made this claim repeatedly. He brags about his allegedly vaunted ability to work with our fascists. Of course he doesn’t refer to them as fascists. All of our candidates ought to start doing that. They are. We are in serious danger worldwide of a global fascist overthrow of liberal democracy, but our leaders are afraid to speak about it.

[Celerity]

467. +1

I am still waiting for a list of them.

He did say 'There's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there'

that means a large number


I would say instead 'They ARE a truly AWFUL lot' roflmaoooo.

Every last one of them will stab him and the nation in the back, especially the Senate under the whip-hand of Moscow Mitch.

[Celerity]

483. still waiting for that list, lol

(not from you, obviously)

see 467

[honest.abe]

108. This will help us in the general.

Many moderate Republican voters dont trust Democrats.. they think we are going to take their guns away and force extreme liberal policies on them. Its absurd but they have been brainwashed by RW media. But when Joe makes comments like this it will give some of them comfort in voting for a Democrat.

Joe knows what he is doing.

[Afromania]

110. Ok Joe

Did they support Reagan, Bush, Bush 2, Trump? Joe needs to quit this bullshit. I'm going to be frank here. When he says "good Republicans" All I hear is white people, white people PLEASE PLEASE vote for me It's ok that you don't really believe in diversity, or judicial fairness, or anything other than your own narrow interests; Papa Joe forgives ya.

Every white person that says "well I have republicans that I know and they aren't bad people. All I'm hearing is "I don't really care that these fuckers vote for people who are perfectly ok with me(a brown person) being marginalized, jailed and perhaps killed; just as long as I know that my place is along the fringes of "proper" society. I mean, as long as they can use those 3 extra nickels they get to pay for the "hidden" republican surcharge on everything; then their ok.

God forbid it goes to pay for any service or program a brown person might use in this country. Hell, it doesn't even matter to them that they are the primary users of said services. I mean that's the fucking kick of it. They are willing to KILL themselves to KILL me, but yes. These are all fine and up standing people that need to have their hands patted and told everything is fine.


I like Biden, but he needs to cut this shit out. I understand the game. He doesn't have to go out there and denigrate these evil bastards but this pitty pat "very fine people on both sides" bullshit needs to stop. If he's the candidate I vote for him. I won't even have to hold my nose to do it but for fucks sake I wish he'd stop with this revisionist history of the modern republican party and stop insulting me.

[SharonClark]

240. Agree 100%

[BlueWI]

455. +10,000

Good people on both sides, anyone?

It is certainly possible to draw a contrast between Republicans and Democrats without minimizing the long-term cost of Republican intransigence. But Biden has not shown the communication skills to do this IMO.

[Locrian]

457. I don't think it's an act - it's who he really is

He's stuck in the 80s and thinks that "working" with the republicans is an *awesome* thing.
The republicans know its a joke, and he's going to erode his base - especially progressives and even "reasonable" dems.

[kacekwl]

112. Remember Joe,

Watch what they do not what they say.

[Joe941]

115. He is out of touch with the current state of the gop

[Gothmog]

488. Actual Republican Senators: "We have worked with Joe Biden and would do it again."

Link to tweet

[gordianot]

118. Wrong.

Never ever trust a Republican, old segregationist or anyone who even watches Fox News. This is a resurgence of the One America shit which did not work out so well for Obama. A care taker President Biden is vastly better than the horror we are living through today. A President who mouths these platitudes may get elected but will crucified daily. I am willing to accept the boring as a break in the terror of the last two years. Nothing anyone says will ever make me respect Republicans especially after Trump.

I may support old Uncle Joe but my pittance goes to Democratic Candidates down ticket.

[Princetonian]

130. Bobby Kennedy trusted Joe McCarthy enough to work for him and attend his funeral.

"Larry Tye is the author of seven books, including "Bobby Kennedy: The Making of a Liberal Icon," due out July 5 from Random House. This is an excerpt from the book, provided by the author."

Robert Francis Kennedy had worked as an aide to McCarthy for seven months before political and personal calculations made him step aside...the early Bobby Kennedy embraced the overheated anticommunism of the 1950s and openly disdained liberals.

(Americans might have been misled about Bobby's politics, but not the Soviets. "Kennedy is an ultra, an apostle of anti-Communism, who pursues the laurels of McCarthy and Dulles," according to Za Rubezhom, a Soviet magazine covering political news.)

His job with the Republican senator from Wisconsin not only launched Bobby's career but injected into his life passion and direction that had been glaringly absent. McCarthy's zeal, extreme though it was, fired Kennedy's ambition for years to come.

He quit McCarthy not because he rejected McCarthyism, but because his advancement was stymied by conflict with fellow staffers. While he did work for the senator for just seven and a half months in 1953, their ties went back a number of years, and they lasted until Bobby made his last visit to McCarthy shortly before the senator died.


"When Bobby Kennedy slipped into Appleton for Joe McCarthy's funeral" (Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinal)
http://archive.jsonline.com/greensheet/when-bobby-kennedy-slipped-into-appleton-for-joe-mccarthys-funeral-b99752133z1-384880911.html

[gordianot]

139. I know the story.

One of the reasons Eleanor Roosevelt did not trust Kennedy’s between Bobby working for McCarthy and Dad being a quasi Nazi. It took John to save the family name with While England Slept.

[SharonClark]

237. LOL! You're still trying to deflect from Biden's statement.

[Princetonian]

352. No, I was trying to prove a point subtly.

Obviosuly, too subtle for some.

[Kurt V.]

124. there is nothing to gain by saying that. good grief

[brooklynite]

125. Not scaring away Rwpublican and Independent voters you'll need in the GE?

[Kurt V.]

126. That's a myth. the data isn't there to back this claim.

[brooklynite]

132. The same myth that won us the House in 2018...

...we win with moderate candidates appealing to Democrats, moderate Republicans and Independents in suburban swing districts.

The real myth is that there's a vast pool of untapped progressive voters who won't come out to vote unless we run a "real" Democrat.

[Kurt V.]

143. in 2018 there was a surge of democratic voters. There was also a surge in republican voters.

Independents who were center left made the difference. any crossover from republicans was inconsequential

[honest.abe]

439. Independents float both ways. Joe could capture some of them with comments like this.

As well as some Republicans who hate Trump.

[Kurt V.]

443. only 8-12% of the electorate are true indies. the rest lean right or left and vote accordingly.

my point is this talk could tamp down enthusiasm and not worth a few % of possible votes.

[honest.abe]

444. I understand your point. For sure its a delicate balance between capturing some indies/moderates..

and loosing some on the left. However I do believe this strategy could work if done correctly. Don't forget Obama 2008 ran on uniting the country.. "there are no red states,blue states". Voters loved that. Biden might be able to rekindle that same voter interest if he can make the case that he is uniquely qualified to pull it off.

Also, we are in uncharted waters with Trump. Many Independent and moderate Rs hate Trump and I think will vote against him if they feel the Democratic candidate is willing to negotiate with the other side and not try to force his/her agenda on the nation.

[sharedvalues]

128. STOP POSTING THE HILL

The Hill’s goal is to run headlines that divide Democrats.
The Hill is owned by a Trumpite billionaire.

Do not post The Hill!!

[stonecutter357]

129. good let's go Joe !

[Bettie]

131. He's living in the past

I'd like to know exactly how he plans to work with Moscow Mitch.

They are not decent, they are modern day pirates, pillaging our nation.

[Princetonian]

136. Joe was not referring to Moscow Mitch.

Joe spoke through the night with McCain to convince him to vote NO to save ACA/ObamaCare.

All Senators in the Democratic caucus try to reach across the aisle or their bills won't pass. They are in the minority.

Elizabeth has a good track record on this:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

Some, like Bernie, has voted with Republicans against undocumented immigrants:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243799

Others, like Joe, merely say what Bernie and Elizabeth already know. I will bet you that a reporter asked Bernie and Elizabeth about what Joe said, they would both agree with Joe.

Pete and Beto would agree with Joe. Both of them are from very red states where they would not have succeeded without appealing to and working with Republicans.

[Bettie]

186. McCain is long gone

and there are zero principled Republicans in congress. (OK, maybe that guy who left the freedom caucus)

Moscow Mitch has full veto power over all legislation.

None of the others is willing to do more than issue a mild "oh, that isn't nice" type comment about anything and once there is a Democrat in the White House, they will be back to full obstruction mode: never, ever let anything pass.

If you think he can somehow overcome this, well, that's your belief. I think he is thinking of a time that is long past. Republicans don't cooperate with anyone unless that "cooperation" means utter and complete capitulation by our side. Ever.

[Princetonian]

351. I hear you but what Republicans does Liz think will vote for MFA?

Perhaps the same ones who co-sponsor legislation with her now? She has a very good track record of bipartisanship.

[Thekaspervote]

270. Agree!!

[Hoyt]

140. Maybe. They don't get elected, though, because the GOPer voters only want racist pigs in office.

[Princetonian]

150. Moderate Republicans and right-leaning independents in the Philly suburbs are key to winning PA.

Joe's from Scranton. Jill grew near Philly. Both of them know this.

Barack won PA largely because those suburbs and those surrounding Pittsburgh went for him.

[Voltaire2]

156. Horseshit.

The key to winning elections in this hyperpartisan era is to motivate your base and get them to the polls.

Republican voters vote Republican. They don’t suddenly wake up and vote for our candidates. At best they stay home.

[Princetonian]

166. I have volunteered w/the local Democratic party in Pittsburgh and Philly since 2007.

I know many Obama Republicans. I got them to the polls in some cases, helped them fill out absentee ballots in others.

Your opinion does not trump the Obama coalition experience in PA in 2008 and 2012. A motivated base is important but it is not enough in a general election or open primaries like they have in some states like California.

[Skya Rhen]

142. Thanks, Joe, for reaching out to good Republicans like McCain who saved the ACA. Let's never forget!

Did Joe Biden convince John McCain to save Obamacare?

That's the conclusion some are drawing after a report from the Washington Post stated Senator McCain was called by former Vice President Biden, who made an emotional plea to vote against the "skinny" repeal of Obamacare.

Biden purportedly reflected on the death of his son Beau Biden, who died of the same brain cancer McCain has been diagnosed with.

Former Senator Joe Lieberman also reportedly called McCain ahead of the vote. With the drama of a thumbs down gesture, McCain effectively killed the republicans' seven-year efforts to repeal and/or replace Obamacare, at least for now.



https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/07/31/report-joe-biden-called-mccain-with-tearful-plea-to-save-obamac/23057819/?

[Autumn]

144. McCain is dead. He was the last "good" one.

[Skya Rhen]

147. Collins and Murkowski are still alive. Also, because of them we have Obamacare and deserve credit

for being some of the good Republicans.

I am certain that those whose lives were saved because of the ACA, consider these two Senators to be good.

[Autumn]

151. Yeah they have been a big help in keeping drunk rapists off the SC court and keeping

the oranges asses love of white supremacy and corruption in check.

[Voltaire2]

153. They almost never vote against their party

So like fuck them and every other Republican legislator. The way we “work with them” is the way they “work with us”: make sure they are the minority in both chambers.

[Thekaspervote]

416. And for sure!! Let's vote them all out. That would be the idyllic way.. one can hope

[Autumn]

145. If only Joe had seen the Republican in action during Obama's term and since Trump's. Oh wait....

Decent people don't yell "you lie" at a black president. Decent people don't allow a foreign government to meddle in our election. Decent people don't prop up a man stealing from the taxpayers to add to his wealth. Decent people don't sit back and watch an American president commit high crimes and treason and not allow Congress to do their job of oversight. Decent people don't install a drunken rapist on the SC while denying a black president to appoint his choice of a decent man. Decent people don't allow a president to give an enemy state whatever they want. Decent people my ass.

Republican aren't intimidated, they're fucking racist. Obama, a black man in power caused them to lose their fucking shit. You go right on and ignore that Joe. Your problem, Joe is that your friends, those good old boy republicans willing to work across the aisle don't fucking exist.

[Princetonian]

154. How does Tom Steyer plan to win votes much less govern?

You think you know how to govern and win votes better than Joe with the Obama coalition behind him? Pffft.

If a candidate gave blanket condemnation like you just posted, voters who are on the fence would reject your hyperpartisan language and we will get another four years of Trump.

[Autumn]

163. Does Steyer matter? He has nothing to do with the discussion about Joe and his decent

Republicans that only he can work with. Yeah, those mythical voters of yours were fucking awesome in the last presidential election. Amirite? I'm not attempting to govern so that's a great big You do know what a discussion board is? We discuss current events and offer our opinions. How you get I want to govern is beyond me. If Joe can work so well with the fantasy good republicans why didn't he do it during Obamas' two terms? Come to think of it other than getting McCain to votes against the repeal of the ACA once. What are his many accomplishments as VP? I'll wait right here. Sooner or later people are going to have to stop deflecting using every other candidate running and discuss and actually comment on what Biden is saying and doing.

My condolences on the loss of your friend.

[Princetonian]

170. Of course he matters. You allegedly support him. What is his position on working with Republicans?

[Autumn]

173. We will find that out at the debate. His main past position has been spending millions getting

Democrats elected. But what we are discussing is Joe working with decent republicans. Has he mentioned the names of these decent republicans? I'm just curious. I haven't seen any for a long time. It seems asshole republicans are now all the rage. What does Joe think of them? Since you know that's all that left of the republican party. What's his plan there?

[Princetonian]

176. Why on earth would Joe tell us their names? So they can get primaried and/or pilloried?

[Autumn]

207. That's a silly reply. We are Democrats, I think we all know what the Republicans are.

We pillory the worthless assholes on a daily basis. I think you would be hard-pressed to find one of these worthless republicans we haven't pilloried for the last 10 years. Well, there were a couple of dead ones but they got their share of it while alive.
True story, my dad always said a good republican is a dead one. He started saying that when GOP Representative Gregg Harper said "We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition.".

[Princetonian]

269. What is sillier are anonymous bloggers that demand names!! Keep demanding.

[Autumn]

368. I'm demanding nothing, I asked who these good Republicans are. Bloggers?

[Princetonian]

381. You'll find out long after Steyer exits the race.

[Autumn]

385. Steyer exiting the race will reveal who these "awful lot of good Republicans" are? .

I'm so excited and I can't wait.

[Thekaspervote]

415. It remains to be seen. No one...especially mr. Biden or for that matter any of our candidates are

Taking for granted that the rebups will fall down and roll over.

To close the door and be unwilling to open it even a fraction will eventually bite us back and hard. Example: doing away with the filibuster, simple majority.

Playing that game is fool hardy

[Autumn]

419. It really can't remain to be seen. It's being presented as fact that

"there's an awful lot of really good Republicans out there" I can't think of any. At one time there may have been some. But not for the last 10 years or more. If there were any really good Republicans out there we would not be in the mess we are today with Trump and his gross misconduct, corruption and treason.

[Thekaspervote]

427. You are right it is an unknown. So, why close the door to the unknown?

No one is arguing for dotard “his gross misconduct, corruption and treason” to prevail ... no one

[Autumn]

429. I'm not closing any door. Can you point out these really good Republicans?

I never said anyone is arguing for the orange ass. You are arguing that there are some really good republicans out there so since you know that to be a fact you should be able to pinpoint some of them. I've wracked my brain and I can't think of any.

[Thekaspervote]

452. No where in my posts did I say I KNEW there were some really good repubs out there. You are twisting

Last edited Tue Aug 20, 2019, 03:30 AM - Edit history (1)

What I said. You just want to argue.

I said and am saying it again that no one knows, and no one does... not you, not me, not the candidates how future legislation and the vote will play out. I also said to not allow for the idea that things change ... because they always do, not keeping the door open is just wrong.

I also said that whom ever the nominee and eventual president is, they better damn well be ready to jump in wholeheartedly to worm out the 1 or 2 gop votes to pass legislation that millions would depend on.

High and mighty fence sitting is just that and doesn’t get any thing done

[Autumn]

459. I didn't say you KNEW there were some really good republicans out there. Biden said that.

I asked the poster if they knew of any of those really good republicans. Saying you know and asking if you know are two different things.

[theaocp]

209. If they're MF45 supporters, I certainly hope so.

What is with people stumbling over themselves to defend this stuff? Fuck Republicans. Maybe a shouting post about everyone declaring loyalty to how much Republicans suck?

[Princetonian]

271. Liz would not agree. She has a good track record of having them co-sponsor her legislation.

Read all about it:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

[questionseverything]

375. so the decent republicans have to be secret decent republicans?

[Princetonian]

402. Do you remember what happened to NJ Gov. Christie's standing in the GOP after Barack praised him?

[questionseverything]

417. christy who should of gone to jail ovr bridgegate?

better try a dif example if u lookin for a good repub

[Princetonian]

424. Not my point. Anyone Joe names will be primaried so do not expect him to do so.

Christie was mocked by Republicans, dropped out of favor with Trump all because of a few carefully placed words of praise by Barack. Joe will not let that happen.

Christie was my governor, unfortunately. Independents tired of Corzine voted him in. A lesson for the GE.

[Skya Rhen]

155. Joe saw them in action during Obama's term and he still took a chance on McCain. Was he wrong to

do this?

I am grateful that Joe did not let his pride or personal grudges stand in the way. He cast them aside to tearfully plead with a Republican (McCain), who fought Obama tooth and nails, so that we can have healthcare.

What a purely selfless act - we actually need more humane people like Joe.

[Voltaire2]

157. One vote from one dead Senator.

That is all you’ve got.

[Skya Rhen]

161. The ACA is important to me and millions of others. I will forever be grateful for that "one vote."

[Voltaire2]

162. Sure. Now about working with all these

wonderful Republican legislators, please list the ones still breathing that will work with a Democratic president.

[Skya Rhen]

165. Senators Collins and Murkowski. They will always work with Democrats to deny any future repeal

of the ACA. Their past actions prove this.

[theaocp]

199. Your open trust of those two is noted.

There has not been a word invented to demonstrate how much I disagree with that assessment. Their past actions show they are STILL Republicans at this point in history, and thus ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

[Thekaspervote]

276. You can kill the messenger if you want, but things do change. You cannot stop progress

It will be interesting to see just how many Congress critters back away from the orange king when he’s gone. In that mix there might be “one good senator” to swing the vote.

If you have a crystal ball then please proceed

[Autumn]

172. Well for sure we can't count on McCain. I'm of the mind that his thumbs down

was because he was dying and Trump was being his usual nasty self trash-talking McCain. If Joe tearfully pled with him, good for him. I missed that event but it certainly highlights what a racist McCain was since he was willing to work with the white VP but not a black President attempting to help the American people with healthcare, that benefited a lot of his very own constituents. In fact, McCain said even Obama called to express gratitude for McCain’s vote against the Republican repeal bill. His comment on that was:

“I was thanked for my vote by Democratic friends more profusely than I should have been for helping save Obamacare,” McCain wrote. “That had not been my goal.”

Do you think that will work with the remaining living Republicans?

[Skya Rhen]

355. Your words: "If Joe tearfully pled with him, good for him". No - good for millions of us Americans.

[Autumn]

366. Ignore what McCain had to say about it. Since his intention was to not save Obamacare

but IMO but was to shit on the orange turd that doesn't really prove Joe can work with republicans.

McCains words on that thumbs down.

“I was thanked for my vote by Democratic friends more profusely than I
should have been for helping save Obamacare,” McCain wrote. “That had not been my goal.”

[Princetonian]

386. Joe described what happened the night with McCain before the vote. Your insinuations are funny.

[Autumn]

397. That's straight from McCain. One of them good republicans I guess? It's not my insinuation.

“I was thanked for my vote by Democratic friends more profusely than I
should have been for helping save Obamacare,” McCain wrote. “That had not been my goal.”

[Thekaspervote]

410. So... if the legislation was passed what's the difference?

In this kind of political environment one had be ready “to walk into hell for a heavenly cause.” It’s an old saying but ever so true today.

[Autumn]

412. Well McCain didn't "walk into hell for a heavenly cause." saving Obamacare was not his goal

with that thumbs down. McCain was very clear on that. That's the difference. Facts are stubborn things.

“I was thanked for my vote by Democratic friends more profusely than I
should have been for helping save Obamacare,” McCain wrote. “That had not been my goal.”

[Thekaspervote]

453. What's the difference? If you don't like what I say, why keep responding?

The legislation got voted down by John McCain.. indeed as you like to point out “facts are stubborn things.”

As has been pointed out several times by those that have the ACA, they are incredibly appreciative they still have their insurance.

[Autumn]

458. As long as it's insisted McCain voted to save the ACA because he's a "really good republican"

and voted out some shred of nobility I will point out the fact that saving the ACA was not his goal.
Of course, people are grateful for having insurance, people need to be able to see a doctor.

“I was thanked for my vote by Democratic friends more profusely than I
should have been for helping save Obamacare,” McCain wrote. “That had not been my goal.”

[SamKnause]

158. No Joe, there are not.

They are the enemy.

They are good for corporations, Wall Street, the NRA, implementing theocracy, suppressing voting

rights, shrinking the rights of women, attacking undocumented immigrants, starting illegal wars,

enriching the wealthy, wiping out unions, supporting racism, and ignoring climate change.


Who in their right mind would want bipartisanship with a party that is against everything

that helps the people of this country ???

They are the enemy.

They are evil.

They are liars.

[SidDithers]

159. That might have been true 2-3 years ago...

but since then, not a single one of them has spoken out against the racist in chief.

Every single fucking one of the supposedly "really good Republicans" is now complicit in the shitshow that is the Trump administration.

Sid

[Voltaire2]

164. It wasn't true then either.

This is delusional on Biden’s part. It ignores his own tenure as VP and how the Republican Party “worked” with Obama for 8 years.

[Ninga]

160. Oh dear. If that is the case dear Joe, why didn't you work your miracle and get Merrick Garland

a hearing?

[Skya Rhen]

167. Merrick Garland will get that hearing in 2021, under President Biden. Better late than never...

[questionseverything]

379. we lost the majority for generations so no not better late

[Ace Rothstein]

440. If Garland is a replacement for any of the liberal justices then Biden will be a one term president.

[Princetonian]

168. Moscow Mitch is not one of the good ones. Warren got good Republicans to co-sponsor her bills.

In fact, Warren has a very good track record of working with Republicans.

[Thekaspervote]

329. Your point about a miracle is exactly why we need to keep that door open to that 1 good repub

Because there are NO miracles...only the hard grunt work of wading thru piles and piles to find that one that will be swayed.

Go JOE!!

[Iggo]

169. He's right. They are an awful lot. (n/t)

[ProudMNDemocrat]

174. Joe is CORRECT.....

There are decent Republicans out there who have been disenchanted with Trump. Many have left the Party to become Independents. David Jolley, Justin Amash, Bill Hurd, even Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are Republicans who continue to speak truth to power. I would even say, many in Congress who are deciding not to seek another term. I would not be surprised if there were a number of Congressional Republicans afraid to come out of the woodwork and actually want to work with Democrats to move the country forward.

There are many voters disenchanted to the way the country is going. I know a number of Republicans here in Rochester who I have no issues with, who are decent people. One is the former Governor of Minnesota, Arnie Carlson, who also happens to be one of my Facebook friends as well. When he posts, he is talking as a concerned American, not as a Republican. He would be considered more of a Centrist Democrat than Republican if I were to categorize him.

It is early yet. The growing number of Independents were once Republicans, who will vote for a return of decency, diplomacy, and direction that puts our credibility as a Nation back on the front burner.

[UniteFightBack]

200. It's called smart politics. You would think that would be a little more understood and

appreciated around here for fucks sake.

[Thekaspervote]

289. This!!

[Bayard]

175. He's right

I think there are plenty of Rethugs in Congress who are afraid to go against tRump, but more importantly, against Moscow Mitch. Floodgates will open once they're both gone.

[gibraltar72]

177. I assume there still are.

Although I've seen no sign in last 20 years.

[Princetonian]

180. Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/07/18/loud-voice-against-send-her-back-trump-country-republican/1768764001/

[Princetonian]

181. Republican Speaks Out Against ICE

[Garrett78]

182. I understand this is a tactic to get votes, but he can't actually believe that.

Name 5 in the Senate. Name 20 in the House. Hell, name 5 in all of Congress. I dare you.

[Princetonian]

185. It is all perspective. Republican voters could the same about naming good Democrats.

We are so partisan now. Sigh.

[Garrett78]

188. Oh please. Leave the false equivalencies to the media. Seriously, name 5.

Name 3. 2? How about 1? Name 1 "really good Republican" in Congress.

[Princetonian]

192. Sorry, your viewpoint is in the minority in this country. I am making a sensible statement.

Independents make up the largest voting bloc.

I am posting articles about good Republicans now. Open your eyes and read.

[Garrett78]

195. Name "an awful lot of really good Republicans" in Congress.

Or just name 5. Or 3. This should be easy, right?

You name them and then I'll look up their voting record. It'll be a fun little exercise. Remember, we're talking about members of the US Congress, as that's clearly who Biden is referencing when he talks about working with "really good Republicans" if he becomes president.

Again, one can talk all they want about "reaching across the aisle" to these wonderful Republicans. But reality is reality.

[Princetonian]

214. D'oh. Joe won't name names so his future allies will get primaried and/or pilloried.

You just want to argue.

Go run for Presidentand tell me how you will win without crossover votes given Democrats are a minority bloc.

Tell how President Garrett78 will get any legislation passed without GOP allies in a divided Congress.

[Garrett78]

227. I'm still waiting for you or anyone else to name even 3 "really good Republicans" in Congress.

Face it, the statement is nothing more than a tactic to get elected. It's not based on reality. You know that, I know that, Biden knows that.

[Princetonian]

250. Wait no more. Don't move the goalpost.

Senate Republicans speak out against Trump's shutdown: "A lot of unneeded stress on a lot of people"

Increasingly frustrated group calls for shutdown to end rather than cowering in fear over the president's tweets

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/10/senate-republicans-speak-out-against-trumps-shutdown-a-lot-of-unneeded-stress-on-a-lot-of-people_partner/

Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/07/18/loud-voice-against-send-her-back-trump-country-republican/1768764001/

That's all I have. Joe knows the rest and he will work with them when he is POTUS.

[Garrett78]

257. See post #249 regarding your first link.

See this regarding Mr. Gallagher: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mike-gallagher/

If that voting record qualifies someone as "really good," I don't even know what to say. The bar isn't just low. It's under ground.

I haven't moved any goalposts. Out of 252 Republicans in Congress, you haven't yet named 5 or 3 or even 1 "really good" Republican. Unless you have an extremely twisted view of what constitutes "really good."

It's a rhetorical tactic on Biden's part. That's all it is.

[Princetonian]

265. Even broken clocks are right twice a day. Warren and Bernie work with Republicans too.

[Thekaspervote]

281. Yes, a sensible statement..thank you

[TCJ70]

308. Which "really good Republicans" will vote for the public option he wants? N/t

[Princetonian]

349. What Republicans does Warren think will vote for MFA?

Perhaps the same ones who co-sponsor legislation with Warren?

[Princetonian]

183. Former Republican Federal Prosecutors Speak Out Against President Trump's Obstruction of Justice

[Garrett78]

198. Biden isn't talking about former federal prosecutors.

As president, you don't work with former federal prosecutors. You work with the US Congress.

Furthermore, a Republican can be anti-Trump and still be a horrible person.

[Princetonian]

388. Good of them to speak out. I applaud them for going on the record.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[flamingdem]

184. It's call Politics

Number one rule is to find common ground.

I could NOT do it. Thanks Joe for holding your nose and doing what's necessary to get it done.

And thanks for the ACA, it is and was a BFD and has helped many millions.

[Princetonian]

187. Ex-GOP lawmakers call on Republicans to speak out against Trump

Former Reps. David Jolly (R-Fla.) and Charlie Dent (R-Pa.), who recently joined CNN as a contributor, made the comments to CNN’s Don Lemon.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/391327-ex-gop-lawmakers-call-on-republicans-to-speak-out-against-trump

[SharonClark]

232. EX is the operative word

[Fiendish Thingy]

189. Just say no to the Status Quo nt

[Princetonian]

190. Nebraska lawmaker, a Republican, says his own party enables white supremacy

Nebraska lawmaker, a Republican, says his own party enables white supremacy
https://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/nebraska-lawmaker-a-republican-says-his-own-party-enables-white/article_a5659ece-f553-5a44-b8c6-ac445c31de76.html

[Gothmog]

193. IF a Democrat wins in 2020, that Democrat will have to work with repbublicans

If a Democrat wins in 2020 (that is NOT a given), that Democrat will have to rebuild our country. trump has done a tremendous amount of damage to the institutions. The State department has been gutted and other organizations decimated. That work will require working with republicans. Tom Perez and Eric Holder had to rebuild the voting rights and civil rights sections of the DOJ after 8 years of Bush. trump has probably done far more damage to these institutions in just one term. Rebuilding our institutions after trump will not be easy and will take the cooperation of both Democrats and many Republicans.

It is not assured that any Democrat can win in 2020. Most POTUS are re-elected unless there is a recession. If a Democrat wins in 2020, that Democrat will have a very hard job of undoing the damage done by trump and that work will require working with republicans as well as Democrats. Again, I live in Texas which is still a red state but may change. That means that I have to live with and work with republicans in the real world. I think that there are many good republicans and we will need these republicans to rebuild our government IF trump is defeated.

This polling is interesting

Link to tweet

[Princetonian]

194. Another Republican Speaks Out Against Trump

https://jobsanger.blogspot.com/2018/09/another-republican-speaks-out-against.html

[Princetonian]

196. GOP leaders speak out against torture after Trump comments

Even broken clocks are correct twice a day:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-leaders-come-out-against-torture-after-trump-comments/

[polichick]

201. Democrats need to LEAD forward, not look fondly back to the past...

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
The battle outside ragin'
Will soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'
~ Bob Dylan

[Purposely “undecided” until primary season.]

[Princetonian]

204. Obama/Biden 2008-2016 defined "forward" - Biden will beat Trump, move forward with a LOYAL VP.

Backstabbers and those who attack the Obama legacy instead of promoting their own ideas need not apply.

[polichick]

213. 2008-2016 are now in the past - it's a whole new world...

“People are crazy and times are strange.” BD again

[Princetonian]

202. Senate Republicans speak out against Trump's shutdown: "A lot of unneeded stress on a lot of people"

Senate Republicans speak out against Trump's shutdown: "A lot of unneeded stress on a lot of people"

Increasingly frustrated group calls for shutdown to end rather than cowering in fear over the president's tweets

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/10/senate-republicans-speak-out-against-trumps-shutdown-a-lot-of-unneeded-stress-on-a-lot-of-people_partner/

[Newest Reality]

203. Now,

That is a good strategy and the way you begin to heal and reunite a country. Respect for one's opponents is both honorable and powerful, and, this case, it is a viable antithesis that stands in stark contrast to the tactics being used by Trump, etc.

To move up the logical levels to the place were we all do have things in common is a tool that mediators utilize to resolve conflicts. When you can get people to abstract more about what they can agree on, that changes and transforms the perspective on the lower levels where there is disagreement, acrimony and division.

Well, played! Bravo! He gets it.

[MineralMan]

206. So let's see if this lowers his polling scores.

I'll bet it doesn't.

[Garrett78]

210. Of course not. That doesn't mean what he said is based in reality. It most definitely isn't.

It's a tactic to get votes; not a statement of fact.

[MineralMan]

219. Winning the election is goal number one, isn't it?

That's how I see it. That's the most difficult thing, especially with Trump pulling strings to foul the election up.

We must win. And we need coattails to win some more Senate seats, too. Frankly, for 2020, nothing else really matters. If we lose, it will take a long time to get back in power, even if we survive four more Trump years, which is doubtful.

If ever pragmatism was the route to take, it's 2020.

[Princetonian]

221. Tell us how Pres. Garrett78 gets legislation passed w/o GOP allies in a divided Congress.

You just want to argue.

Go run for President and tell me how you will win without crossover votes given Democrats are a minority bloc.

Tell me how President Garrett78 will get any legislation passed without GOP allies in a divided Congress.

[Garrett78]

231. Name these GOP allies. Name these "really good Republicans" who will work with a Dem. president.

What Biden said is a tactic to get votes. It's arguably a wise tactic. But it isn't based in reality, which is why nobody is able to name "an awful lot of really good Republicans" in Congress. Hell, I'm just asking you to name 1 and you haven't done it. ONE!

[Princetonian]

248. No, it is not a tactic. It was a "gotcha" media moment at a fundraiser. Here are more than "ONE!"...

Senate Republicans speak out against Trump's shutdown: "A lot of unneeded stress on a lot of people"

Increasingly frustrated group calls for shutdown to end rather than cowering in fear over the president's tweets

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/10/senate-republicans-speak-out-against-trumps-shutdown-a-lot-of-unneeded-stress-on-a-lot-of-people_partner/

Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/07/18/loud-voice-against-send-her-back-trump-country-republican/1768764001/

That's all I have. Joe knows the rest and he will work with them when he is POTUS.

[Garrett78]

249. Occasionally opposing Trump out of self-preservation is all it takes to qualify as "really good?"

Wow, the bar has been set impossibly low.

Look at the voting record of every Republican. Find 1 - just ONE! - that hasn't consistently voted in such a way that made life worse for tens of millions of people.

Biden's camp knows that "reaching across the aisle" talk appeals to people. It's a tactic; nothing more.

[Princetonian]

254. Moving the goalpost deflection. Got it.

Bye Felicia.

[Garrett78]

261. I've not moved any goalpost, nor have I deflected. Nice try, though.

When Mike Gallagher is the best you can come up with, perhaps you should just wave that white flag. You've clearly lost (your mind).

Mike Gallagher, OMG! LMFAO.

[Thekaspervote]

295. Yes, you have moved the goal post more than once

[Garrett78]

299. Explain.

How have I moved the goalposts?

I've simply asked someone to name these "really good Republicans." If all it takes to qualify is occasionally opposing Trump (generally out of self-preservation), then the bar has been set impossibly low. The bar has been set under ground.

If someone consistently votes in such a way that life is made worse for tens of millions of people, how can you call that person "really good?" How?

[Thekaspervote]

317. You went from asking to have good repubs named to saying you know it's a political tactic

[Garrett78]

320. Huh? I'm not sure you know what moving the goalposts means.

I've argued from the very start that this was nothing more than a tactic (arguably a wise one), meaning it's not a statement of fact or a statement rooted in reality. But there's at least one person who actually thinks what he said was a statement of fact and not a tactic, so I've asked that person to name these "really good Republicans." That's all. There's no moving of any goalposts. Either name these "really good Republicans" or acknowledge that Biden's statement was merely a rhetorical tactic. Simple.

[Princetonian]

347. Zing!

[Thekaspervote]

392. yes, it is a low bar, but I'm here to tell ya, who ever our candidate is, they better damn well be

Ready to walk under that “low “ bar to seek out the vote needed to pass legislation. Sitting high on a fence looks pretty good until you have to disappoint millions of people cause you didn’t want to dirty your hands.

Purity never works.

[Politicub]

212. I'll believe it when I see a mass movement of republicans speaking against Trump

and what he stands for.

I guess the excuse for why we don't see that is because they're so "intimidated right now" about going against the grain.

Another reason may be that they like how Trump and the GOP breathe life into their "deeply held beliefs".

[Princetonian]

216. Ask Warren. She got good Republicans to co-sponsor bills with her.

[Politicub]

220. I don't have a direct line to Warren, as wonderful as that would be.

So, I'm still looking for a critical mass of awfully good republicans and not anecdotes.

[Princetonian]

230. Yes, it would be wonderful. Warren would tell you that Joe is right because...

"In fact, Elizabeth Warren has found Republican Senators to co-sponsor some of her bills (ranked 4th among Democrats) and has a very good track record of doing this in the most recent records available (115th Congress).

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/elizabeth_warren/412542/report-card/2018

Elizabeth actually walks the walk."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

to BlueMTexpat

[NNadir]

224. Decent people do NOT vote party line when party line involves racists.

I really don't see any examples of Republicans who object to the racist in chief in Congress.

[Princetonian]

233. Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/07/18/loud-voice-against-send-her-back-trump-country-republican/1768764001/

[NNadir]

235. OK, there's one. Where are the rest of them who Joe considers "decent?" n/t

[Princetonian]

245. Joe is not going to publicize their names to save them from being primaried but here are more...

Senate Republicans speak out against Trump's shutdown: "A lot of unneeded stress on a lot of people"

Increasingly frustrated group calls for shutdown to end rather than cowering in fear over the president's tweets

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/10/senate-republicans-speak-out-against-trumps-shutdown-a-lot-of-unneeded-stress-on-a-lot-of-people_partner/

That is all I have. Joe knows the rest and he will work with them to pass legislation when he is POTUS.

[NNadir]

326. I don't know. It sounds a bit like Nixon's 1968 "secret plan" to end the war in Vietnam.

The "secret plan" involved expanding the war to Cambodia, secretly, of course, bombing the living daylights out Hanoi, losing a few more tens of thousands of American lives while sending a future war criminal, Kissinger, to argue over the shape of a table in Paris with North Vietnamese diplomats, burglarizing Daniel Ellsberg's Psychiatrist's office, being forced to resign and losing the war.

It was a great secret.

Hopefully, Joe's secret plan is a little bit better. Of course, I'd love to find out, since if Joe's secret plan gets executed, it will mean that he, and not Donald Trump, will be in the White House.

I really don't believe that Joe knows any Republicans who are decent men or women, because, um, there aren't any. I mean these are people who voted for the Turtle to be their leader, a clear racist, given that he refused to let a black guy appoint any more Supreme Court Justice, and a clear traitor, since he is turning our government over to clear interference from his pal Putin.

[Princetonian]

399. Tell me how a Democratic President can pass legislation through a divided Congress w/o GOP allies?

Not one person has answered this question. Lots of bullsh*tting though.

Is there any other way to govern? Even if Bullock and Hickenlooper win their Senate races, we still need two more.

I do believe Joe knows Republicans he thinks are decent. Of course, everything is relative.

[NNadir]

436. We can't pass legislation with the Republicans in power in any house.

They don't know compromise.

Are you here to tell me that the Turtle would have allowed Joe to put Garland Merrick on the Supreme Court because he can charm extreme right wingers better than Obama could?

These people are either white supremacists themselves or are collaborators with White Supremacists, to a man, to a woman.

If the country is to be saved we must win the Senate, and talking about dealing with a Senate filled to the brim with racists, corrupt traitors and Ayn Rand type nuts is simply defeatist rhetoric.

Now I like Joe Biden. I really do. But frankly this is poor thinking.

If he wants to be President let him take on the whole task, not just electing himself because he finds some Republicans acceptable and likable, but because he is disgusted by them and works as hard for the Senate as he does for himself.

I'm sorry, but Joe is stuck in the 20th century. 20th century Republicans were not fascists.

21st century Republicans very much are.

[Thekaspervote]

286. Maybe he is indeed just speak to that one... the one he can persuade when it comes to saving

SS, Medicare or medicaid

[Vogon_Glory]

225. Every Time I Hear Someone Compliment Republicans For Bipartisanship and

willingness to put country over party, my internal jukebox starts playing "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?".

There were such Republicans once, and at the risk of offending some of DU's keepers-of-the-flame, I'll add that there WERE a lot of them. Decades in the past. Once upon a time. Long ago.

Such Republicans are rare birds there days. They've died, aged out of active politics, or have been primaried by vicious right-wing partisans. I'd say that the overwhelming majority of those old statesmen and stateswomen are buried in cemeteries or are very, very elderly, so old that they are too tired and too infirm to run for office and hold them if the voters do vote for for them. If there are still-vigorous, bipartisan, patriotic Republican Methuselahs out there, I haven't heard of them.

When in doubt, VOTE THEM OUT!!!

[JudyM]

226. If true, why not persuade them right now to get McConnell to fix election infrastructure & guns?

[Garrett78]

243. Because it isn't true and everybody knows it.

But Biden's camp knows that "reaching across the aisle" talk (no matter how unrealistic that is) appeals to people. It's a tactic; nothing more. It's certainly not rooted in reality. If it was, my calls for people to name these "really good Republicans" in Congress would be answered.

There are 252 Republicans in Congress. I dare someone to name just 5 "really good" ones. Show me their voting record. Show me that they haven't supported horrendous legislation over and over and over again. Show me that they haven't consistently made life worse for millions of people. Name 5 out of 252. Name 3. How about 1? ONE!

[Princetonian]

391. Joe was being Joe at a private fundraiser. There was no tactic involved, just honesty.

As opposed to candidates who say this:

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

234. Can't think of ONE!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Princetonian]

241. Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a confressman from Trump country.

Loudest Republican voice against 'send her back' in Wisconsin is a congressman from Trump country.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/07/18/loud-voice-against-send-her-back-trump-country-republican/1768764001/

[VarryOn]

238. We need the country to get to one party like CA...

Then, we don’t have to even wonder if there’s such thing as a good Republican.

[Princetonian]

239. To all those bashing Joe:Tell me how your candidate will pass legislation w/o GOP allies in Congress

[Voltaire2]

251. How'd that work out from 2010-2016?

Oh right, Biden and Obama got nowhere reaching across the aisle.

We get legislation passed by voting the fascists out of office, not by pretending they aren’t fascists.

Meanwhile we use the precedents Twitler has set and legislate by executive order.

[Princetonian]

258. Not answering the question. Deflection noted.

[Garrett78]

252. There aren't GOP allies in Congress. That's the whole point.

Unless you think Susan Collins is an ally.

[Princetonian]

259. Not answering the question. Ignoring the names I sent you? Deflection noted.

[Garrett78]

260. LOL. I've not ignored your posts. I've responded directly to each of them.

Mike Gallagher? LMFAO.

[Princetonian]

282. Tell me how your candidate will pass legislation w/o GOP allies in Congress.

[Garrett78]

284. There aren't any GOP allies in Congress. You keep missing that point.

My god, Mike Gallagher is the best you've come up with...that speaks volumes.

Mike fucking Gallagher. Holy shit.

[Princetonian]

287. Joe knows more than you do about governing the United States.

[Garrett78]

303. I see that you've completely given up on the original argument. That's a wise move.

[Princetonian]

319. Tell me how a Democratic President can pass legislation w/o GOP allies in a divided Congress.

[Garrett78]

322. Name these GOP allies. If you can't, then your statement is based on a false premise.

Regardless of how many times you make said statement.

[Princetonian]

332. You will see when Joe is POTUS and Harris is back in the Senate.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Garrett78]

334. I'm just glad you gave up on naming a single "really good Republican." A wise move on your part.

Have a good day.

[Princetonian]

338. Murkowski. And the ones that co-sponsor Warren's bills.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Garrett78]

339. Murkowski makes Manchin seem somewhat liberal.

Murkowski has consistently voted in such a way as to make life worse for tens of millions of people.

Again, the bar has been set so low that it's under ground.

Thanks again for the Mike Gallagher laugh. That made my day.

[Princetonian]

343. She helped save ObamaCare/ACA and made life better for hundreds of millions of people.

Me and mine included when it was needed.

Hold tight to your purity tests while you wait until Joe is POTUS to see how legislative government is supposed to work. Or take Civics 101.

By the way, Mike Gallagher has enough integrity and class not to repeatedly imply Joe is a racist.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Garrett78]

361. If you want to believe that a vote or two makes someone a "really good" person or that...

...Mike Gallagher is a decent human being, more power to you.

[Thekaspervote]

283. Oh... I will be patiently waiting for that reply as well!

[TCJ70]

312. Which ones will vote for the public option he wants? N/t

[Princetonian]

387. The same ones Liz thinks will vote for MFA.

[liberalmuse]

242. True.

At least how I read Biden’s sentence. They are an awful lot. And we all know to be a “good Republican” you have to be willing to adopt the lowest common denominator of human behavior possible.

[ArcticFox]

253. Oh no, Joe

That's just a recipe for more of the same

[vlyons]

256. If they are so good, why are they still Republicans?

"Good Republicans" aren't much different than the "good Germans" during the Nazi regime. Anyone with a moral compass should have left the Republican party long ago.

[Garrett78]

266. You know that, I know that, and even Biden probably knows that.

It's a tactic to get votes, and arguably a wise tactic (polling suggests a lot of people appreciate "reaching across the aisle" rhetoric).

But nobody can name a single Republican out of the 252 in the US Congress who hasn't consistently voted in such a way as to make life worse for tens of millions of people. Somebody in this thread named those who opposed the shutdown and Mike Gallagher. I'm still laughing.

Apparently all it takes to qualify as "really good" is occasionally (like 10% of the time) opposing Trump out of self-preservation. Good god the bar has been set so low that it's under ground.

[Princetonian]

288. Tactics, schmatics. Joe was being Joe. He was at a private fundraiser not at the Iowa State Fair.

[at140]

313. Obvious reason...gerrymandered districts?

Those politicians can only get elected if running as Republicans in those districts.

[Princetonian]

335. +1000

[Demsrule86]

264. Ummm folks it is called trying to get the other side to vote for you...and what is wrong with that?

[Garrett78]

273. As long as people recognize that it's a tactic to win votes and nothing more, fine.

But if anyone actually believed what Biden said was true, it would be easy to name "an awful lot" of Republicans in Congress (out of the 199 in the House and 53 in the Senate) who haven't consistently made life worse for tens of millions of people and voted with Trump every time unless they needed to oppose (such as opposing the government shutdown) out of self-preservation.

There are no "really good" Republicans in Congress, much less "an awful lot." Perhaps this was just a gaffe and he meant to say Republicans are "an awful lot."

[Princetonian]

275. lol... Joe already had all the votes at that fundraiser.

[Garrett78]

277. Um, I'm talking about votes in next year's primaries. People don't vote at fundraisers.

[Princetonian]

285. Sigh. The OP is all about him talking at a private fundraiser.

That is why this is not a tactic to get votes.

[melman]

290. Which makes the praise for Republicans all the more glaring

[Princetonian]

297. Joe is talking about how to govern in order to pass legislation. That is a POTUS' primary focus.

We are not him. We do not have to think about the necessity of working with GOP allies.

I see alot of political neophytes or shitst*rrers (not you!) who are having fun bashing Joe but so far not one of them has answered my questions:

"How would you get legislation passed without GOP aliies in a divided Congress?"

"How would a Democratic candidate pass legislation without GOP aliies in a divided Congress?"

[Garrett78]

291. You've given up on naming "really good Republicans" and resorted to an absurd argument.

When candidates speak at fundraisers (with members of the media present), it's as much a stump speech as any they give out on the trail.

I don't know why you're so invested in arguing that this was nothing more than a rhetorical tactic. Other Biden supporters have accepted that that's all it was. And the fact that you can't name any of these "really good Republicans" suggests that you also know that it's nothing more than a rhetorical tactic.

But instead of admitting that, you've resorted to the truly ridiculous argument that "this was at a fundraiser, therefore what he said has nothing to do with appealing to voters." I don't know what's more absurd, that or your mentioning Mike Gallagher as an example of a "really good Republican." I'm flabbergasted.

[Princetonian]

302. Tell me how a Democratic POTUS would pass legislation w/o GOP allies in a divided Congress.

[Demsrule86]

292. And....that has nothing to do with desiring to stop the feuding and doing something for this country

You have to try...and at worst use it to kick the bums out.

[TDale313]

274. You can't work with "the other side"

If they have no intention of acting in good faith. At some point Dems in power need to get the fact that we are not dealing with good people who disagree on some issues. Republicans are out to destroy the very fabric of our society. They are Fascists, even the “good ones” Those who are reachable have already gone. Those left need to be worked around and pushed the fuck out, cause they’re as bit a problem as Trump himself.

[Garrett78]

278. Well said.

I've been saying for years that we aren't dealing with decent people who simply have a different take on some issues. We're dealing with horrible, horrible people.

[Princetonian]

280. So how would a Democratic President pass legislation in a divided Congress?

[TDale313]

293. We need the Senate back.

We’re not getting anything passed with a Republican Senate, period. We got the ACA because we (barely) had both Houses. We got it without Republican help, despite doing everything possible to entice “Moderate Republicans” They have learned obstructing everything, not making deals, works best for them. We’re gonna have to go around them till this fever actually breaks. They’re not in the mood to work together, which means you’re not gonna have a good-faith partner in negotiations. It sucks, but it’s true.

[Princetonian]

300. I agree. How does it look so far? You sound like you know what you are talking about.

[at140]

342. I hope the country is not that badly divided

because if it is, we are screwed.

[Cartoonist]

294. Name one

Name one repub that voted against the tax bill.

Name one repub who supports public health care.

Name one repub . . .

Just one, Joe. Shouldn't be hard. You said there was an awful lot. I agree with the word awful, but you have a lot of convincing to do.

[Garrett78]

296. Yeah, I've concluded that this was a gaffe. He meant to say Republicans are "an awful lot."

[Princetonian]

305. Well, when Harris repeatedly implied Joe is a racist, it wasn't a gaffe.

No worries for you, though.

Harris won't be POTUS so YOU CAN TAKE POTSHOTS ALL DAY LONG AT THE GUY WHO WILL.

[Garrett78]

311. She didn't, actually.

And my post was meant in jest. I don't actually think what Biden said was a gaffe. It was a tactic, and arguably a wise one given what polling suggests. A slim majority of people like to hear "reaching across the aisle" rhetoric, regardless of its efficacy.

[Princetonian]

318. Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

to thesquanderer

[at140]

345. 12 republicans voted against the tax bill! Google is your friend

From California: Darrell Issa, Dana Rohrabacher
From New Jersey: Rodney Frelinghuysen, Leonard Lance, Frank A. LoBiondo, Christopher H. Smith
From North Carolina: Walter B. Jones
From New York: Dan Donovan, John B. Faso, Peter T. King, Elise Stefanik, Lee Zeldin

[Princetonian]

357. Bookmarked.

12 republicans voted against the tax bill! Google is your friend

From California: Darrell Issa, Dana Rohrabacher
From New Jersey: Rodney Frelinghuysen, Leonard Lance, Frank A. LoBiondo, Christopher H. Smith
From North Carolina: Walter B. Jones
From New York: Dan Donovan, John B. Faso, Peter T. King, Elise Stefanik, Lee Zeldin

[Cartoonist]

374. A little clarity

Technically, you got me. I still don't think that supports Joe's statement. I asked my friend google what's up with that.

https://qz.com/1161496/which-republicans-voted-against-the-tax-bill/

Late Tuesday and early Wednesday, House and Senate Republicans passed what many are calling the most thorough overhaul of US tax laws in decades—”the biggest in history,” if you’re Donald Trump—one that saw no support from a single Democratic lawmaker in either house.
_

So we know ALL the Democrats are good guys.


In the Senate, which voted during the wee hours today, every Republican lawmaker voted for the bill—except John McCain, who is battling brain cancer—leading it to pass 51-48.
_

Not a single repub senator voted against it. McCain was absent. Would he have been the one good repub? Even if so, he's dead now.


In the House, which voted Tuesday evening for the bill 227-203, 12 Republicans voted against the bill. They were mostly the same Republicans who voted against an earlier version of the tax bill, and they were mainly from the east or west coast.
. . . .

The two California Republican representatives who voted against the bill cited the removal of a deduction for state and local taxes, known by the acronym SALT, which is expected to impact high earners in Democratic-leaning states. It’s also the main reason the Republicans in other states who voted against the bill did so.
_

Aw, look at that. Their objection to the bill was that it might impact high earners. How noble of them. Does Joe thinks Darrell Issa is one of the good guys?

[at140]

423. Basically tax cuts at a time of exploding deficits is crazy

I am hearing current federal budget deficit will be $1 TRILLION.
Which means servicing the debt will cost $20-40 Billion more every year from now on.
This is madness. Anyone who voted for last tax cut should be run out of office.

But for whatever their reasons, a dozen republicans DID vote against it last time.

[Cartoonist]

437. Only because it didn't go far enough

And as I pointed out, Issa was one of them. He earns no wings by voting against it, and he is still one of the worst republicans out there. I suspect the other 11 have records just as bad.

I want Joe to name some of the awful lot. He can skip Issa.

[randr]

298. Hey Joe

Name One!

[Garrett78]

306. He can't. Nobody can.

But polls suggest a majority of people like "reaching across the aisle" rhetoric, regardless of its efficacy. And Biden's camp knows that. It's the basis for his campaign. It's arguably a wise tactic. I just hope everyone realizes that that's all it is, a tactic.

[Princetonian]

377. The three Republicans who crossed the aisle to save ObamaCare from Trump.

Look it up. Happened in 2017.

[Garrett78]

378. You keep swinging and missing. A vote or two, generally out of self-preservation, does not...

...make one a "really good" person. Not when the vast majority of their votes cause enormous harm.

When you set the bar on the ground or underneath it, anyone can get over it.

You seem to think that pointing out a vote or two boosts your argument, but it does the opposite. Perhaps you're familiar with the saying, "the exception that proves the rule."

[Princetonian]

380. Purity tests mean sh*t to those whose ObamaCare was saved due to bipartisanship.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Garrett78]

383. You keep making the same absurd argument while ignoring why it's absurd.

Your purity test comment is nonsense. We're talking about horrible, horrible people (some of whom might rarely make a good vote out of self-preservation).

Most of the people on this board, including Biden supporters, seem to recognize that what Biden said is a tactic and nothing more. As one Biden supporter said, "It's bullshit and Joe knows it." I'm not sure why you're so invested in arguing that there really are "an awful lot of good Republicans" in Congress. Perhaps you're on the wrong site.

Take care. We're done.

[Princetonian]

393. Joe was being Joe. The absurdity is your determination to reduce what Joe said to a cheap trick.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Celerity]

472. Snopes rates that claim as False

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mccains-vote-obamacare-repeal/

[revmclaren]

304. It is refreshing to hear the top Democratic candidate

state that a president of the United States is the president of ALL the people, not just the president of his own party.

We already have a president of the Republican party who only listens to those who praise and worship him. There never was a time in modern history that the president hasn't had to reach across the isles to get the job of running this country done...that is, until now.

Why we have people here at DU who want another president to be a one party only president like Trump is mind boggling.

But after carefully scanning the DU archives over the past few months, sadly I can see where some may be pushing this decisive meme.

Only with a president who believes in unity will we even begin to heal this nation and it will be hard work and it will take a long time. Biden understands this. That's why he is ahead in the polls and that's why he will win.




ONLY!!? 2019 and beyond.

[Princetonian]

310. +1000

[Thekaspervote]

321. Which President Obama stated repeatedly when dems and the fight picking media came down on him hard

[revmclaren]

328. Exactly...

I want a president who represents me, my entire family, my neighbors, every one in my town, my state.... everyone in this nation.

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[empedocles]

307. The purist thing here is stubborn

[dlk]

315. It Looks Like Biden is Living in the Past

Whatever Republicans have been the in the past, they are a very different party today. Biden’s comments show wishful thinking or willful ignorance of reality. Neither bodes well for his candidacy. Whomever the Democratic nominee is, it’s critical they are clear-eyed about exactly what the Republican Party is.

[Princetonian]

323. Liz has GOP co-sponsors for her bills and Bernie votes with them on anti-immigrant legislation.

Do think that "bodes well" for their candidacies?

[dlk]

327. Working with Republicans on Legislation is Not the Same

I think it’s a mistake to turn a blind eye to all the GOP is. You don’t have to agree.

FYI:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1287&pid=244067

[Princetonian]

333. It is the same premise. You try to get the other side to vote with you.

Joe is not turning a blind eye to anything. Thank you for that link.

[dlk]

336. I See it as a Version of ..."there's very fine people on both sides ..."

[Princetonian]

340. Joe said it at a private fundraiser when he was likely asked how he could pass legislation as POTUS.

Joe being Joe. No need to look for darker implications. He is the best kind of guy there is.

Just you wait.

[dlk]

460. I Like Joe, However, I Think He Has a Blind Spot When it Comes to Republicans

[Thekaspervote]

403. That could not be farther from the truth

The comment made by dotard was after a car was ran into a group of peaceful protesters at Charlottesville.

Here’s what mr. Biden said regarding that comment

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-shuts-down-breitbart-reporter-trump-fine-people-quote-2019-8

[dlk]

461. Given the Degree of Republicans' Many Crimes, Joe's Comments Gives Them a Pass

Before addressing a problem, it has to be named. Otherwise it looks like Joe is giving them a pass, whether he means to or not.

[dlk]

499. Being pragmatic in getting legislation passed is different than promoting the other side

There is a difference

[Gothmog]

498. You win elections by expanding the electorate, not shrinking it.

Link to tweet

Former Republican U.S. Sen. Gordon Humphrey and former New Hampshire First Lady Dorothy Peterson are among 100 independent Granite State voters announcing their support for former Vice President Joe Biden on Monday.

The Biden campaign said 93 of the 100 “New Hampshire Independents for Biden” are making their support for the former vice president known for the first time. The other seven have been previously announced and are reaffirming their support as members of the grassroots coalition.

The campaign said it intends to make a broad, concerted effort to speak to independent voters over the next six weeks leading to the first-in-the-nation primary on Feb. 11.

Independents, formally known as undeclared voters, make up the largest voting bloc in the state. As of Oct. 30, they comprised 42 percent of the registered voters in the state, while Republicans were 29.5 percent and Democrats were 28 percent of New Hampshire voters.

Independents can take either a Democratic or a Republican ballot in primary elections and then are able to return to undeclared status if they wish.

The Biden campaign said the independent voters on its supporters’ list “believe Joe Biden is the best candidate to defeat President Trump and restore the soul of our nation.”

[ucrdem]

316. MA currently has a Republican governor and has sent several to Congress.

Biden knows what he's doing.

[C_U_L8R]

324. And there's a good lot of awful Republicans.

Regardless, our candidate is running to be President for all Americans.

[Thekaspervote]

404. +1000

[Eyeball_Kid]

337. Oh. The good GOPers are just spineless, sniveling cowards. But Biden can work with them.

And he worked across the aisle when he was VP? Just what did he do? Did he get Garland nominated? Did he get a public option passed? Did he persuade McConnell to stop using the filibuster?

What bullshit.

Woops! I said something negative about a Democrat. My bad.

[Princetonian]

354. Joe spent all night asking McCain to vote NO to save ObamaCare/ACA. That was a BFD for hundreds...

... of millions of Americans like me and mine. They were both crying at the end because Joe brought up that both Beau and McCain had the same type of brain cancer and got the best type of healthcare but how about the folks who had nothing but got cancer?

Garland and the filibuster vote mean sh*t to most Americans when they get sick and have no money to pay for medical care after they pay their bills.

[Skya Rhen]

359. Boom!!

[lsewpershad]

356. Biden supports

Trump's both-siderism. The cons (republiCONS ) are far from showing their "good" side.

[Princetonian]

360. Discussing how to reach legislative consensus is sensible and expected at a private fundraiser...

... where one is surrounded by thoughtful, intelligent thinkers who understand that the legislative process involves more than cheap slogans and cheaper smears.

Rhetoric 101. "I don't believe you're a racist, but..." means you're about to imply he's a racist.

[Thekaspervote]

396. +1000 love the jif of Obama by the way, althou he had to many times placate repubs he never

Let any of it rub off!!

[Thekaspervote]

401. Could you give some examples of how you think Mr. Biden is supporting trump?

[Sneederbunk]

358. Most of them are six feet under.

[Garrett78]

362. Exactly. When I lived in Oregon, I'd hear people say the Mark Hatfield Republicans are no more.

There are no "really good" Republicans in Congress. None. Zip. Zero. Unless we've set the bar so low that a vote or two qualifies someone as "really good" and negates the thousands of times they made worse the lives of tens of millions of people.

[Princetonian]

369. Three Republicans helped save ObamaCare/ACA which was a BFD to hundreds of millions of Americans.

There are more Americans that value men like former two-term Vice President Joe Biden - whose ideas transcended petty politics into actions that saved ObamaCare/ACA - than those whose purity tests translate into bashing Joe every day.

[Garrett78]

371. A vote or two, no matter how significant, does not make someone a "really good" person, nor...

...does it negate the thousands of votes that made life worse for tens of millions of people. You've set the bar so low that it's under ground. And most of the time that Republicans vote with Dems, it's because they represent districts or states where voting the other way could cost them their job.

Purity test my ass. We're talking about people who consistently cause enormous harm. Good grief, I never thought Democratic Underground would be a place where folks defend Republican monsters.

[Princetonian]

373. Americans who've ObamaCare thanks to bipartisanship don't care about purity tests for goodness.

[Thekaspervote]

394. No one is defending what they the gop are doing. No one.

This is about bitting one’s tongue if you have to for that vote needed to pass a bill.

So, if you don’t think it’s purity, what is it?

[Princetonian]

365. Some live. Warren values reaching across the aisle and finds Republicans co-sponsors for her bills.

"In fact, Elizabeth Warren has found Republican Senators to co-sponsor some of her bills (ranked 4th among Democrats) and has a very good track record of doing this in the most recent records available (115th Congress).

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/elizabeth_warren/412542/report-card/2018

Elizabeth actually walks the walk."

Permalink: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

to BlueMTexpat

[lettucebe]

363. That was then

This is now. None of the repugs that are sitting idly by while our country faces imminent peril while the current, absolutely unqualified disaster "fake" president sits in the white house, should be considered "good" anything.

This trying to reach across the aisle approach may just backfire

[Princetonian]

367. Liz has a very good track record of reaching across the aisle & getting finding GOP co-sponsors.

Check it out:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=243816

[Fiendish Thingy]

370. No Thank You

?1557885442

[Princetonian]

372. Are you or anyone you know benefitting from ObamaCare/ACA?

[still_one]

395. Sorry to interrupt your dialog, but yes I do. What I find interesting is some people prefer to

political reality. This is not directed specifically toward you, but for those who seem either to not understand what it takes to pass legislation, or ignore it.


In 2008 and 2009 we didn't have the votes to pass a public option or Medicare for All
There was Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, Nelson in Florida, Nelson in Nebraska, Evan Bayh in Indiana, and I believe Mark Pryor.

Contrary to what some like to project, we didn't have the votes, and there was NOT ONE republican who was willing to vote for any healthcare package with the Democrats, let alone one with a public option or Medicare for all

Here are the facts:

"Here is how much control we had in 2008-2009:

"Obama had control of the House from 2009-2011, but guess what, legislation does NOT become law without the Senate

The Senate operates with the 60-vote-requirement filibuster rule. Total control of the Senate requires 60 votes.

In January 2009, Democrats had 57 seats, with Sanders and Liberman caucusing with the Democrats for 59 votes.

That 59 included both Kennedy and Franken. Franken was not officially seated until July 2009, and Kennedy had a seizure in January 2009, and never returned to the Senate to vote, so the actual number was 55 plus two independents which makes 57.

It was during that time that President Obama was able to pass a stimulus package, but only because 3 republicans, Collins, Snowe, and Specter voted to break a filibuster guaranteeing its passage

In April 2009, Specter became a Democrat, Kennedy was still at home too ill, and Franken was still not seated in April. In May 2009, Byrd got sick, and didn't return to the Senate until July 2, 2009, and Democrats still had only 59 votes Kennedy's seat was temporarily filled by Kirk, but not until Sept, 2009


It was then that Democrats had at least potentially 60 votes in the Senate, and it lasted all of 4 months, from Sept 24, 2009 through Feb. 4, 2010, at which point Scott Brown, a republican was sworn in to replace Kennedy

The only thing the Democrats had control of for two years was the House, and for only 4 months did we have total control of congress, and it was during that small time frame that the ACA was passed"

vhttps://www.ohio.com/article/20120909/NEWS/309099447

Within that four month time frame could President Obama have included a public option in the ACA, or Medicare for ALL?

Not likely. People seem to conveniently forget that there were blue dog Democrats
who made it very clear they would not vote for a public option or Medicare for All. They were Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, Nelson in Florida, Nelson in Nebraska, and I believe Mark Pryor. Contrary to what some like to project, we didn't have the votes, and there was NOT ONE republican who was willing to vote for any healthcare package with the Democrats, let alone one with a public option or Medicare for all

For those who think trashing the ACA, which was landmark legislation on healthcare, is good "political strategy", should perhaps put things in perspective, and instead tell us what you would do when you don't have the majority.

[Thekaspervote]

400. Oh my gosh.. a voice of sanity.... thx for you thoughtful post

[Princetonian]

409. I am going to print this ACA history lesson out for my son. Bookmarked too.

still_one

395. Sorry to interrupt your dialog, but yes I do. What I find interesting is some people prefer to

political reality. This is not directed specifically toward you, but for those who seem either to not understand what it takes to pass legislation, or ignore it.


In 2008 and 2009 we didn't have the votes to pass a public option or Medicare for All
There was Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, Nelson in Florida, Nelson in Nebraska, Evan Bayh in Indiana, and I believe Mark Pryor.

Contrary to what some like to project, we didn't have the votes, and there was NOT ONE republican who was willing to vote for any healthcare package with the Democrats, let alone one with a public option or Medicare for all

Here are the facts:

"Here is how much control we had in 2008-2009:

"Obama had control of the House from 2009-2011, but guess what, legislation does NOT become law without the Senate

The Senate operates with the 60-vote-requirement filibuster rule. Total control of the Senate requires 60 votes.

In January 2009, Democrats had 57 seats, with Sanders and Liberman caucusing with the Democrats for 59 votes.

That 59 included both Kennedy and Franken. Franken was not officially seated until July 2009, and Kennedy had a seizure in January 2009, and never returned to the Senate to vote, so the actual number was 55 plus two independents which makes 57.

It was during that time that President Obama was able to pass a stimulus package, but only because 3 republicans, Collins, Snowe, and Specter voted to break a filibuster guaranteeing its passage

In April 2009, Specter became a Democrat, Kennedy was still at home too ill, and Franken was still not seated in April. In May 2009, Byrd got sick, and didn't return to the Senate until July 2, 2009, and Democrats still had only 59 votes Kennedy's seat was temporarily filled by Kirk, but not until Sept, 2009


It was then that Democrats had at least potentially 60 votes in the Senate, and it lasted all of 4 months, from Sept 24, 2009 through Feb. 4, 2010, at which point Scott Brown, a republican was sworn in to replace Kennedy

The only thing the Democrats had control of for two years was the House, and for only 4 months did we have total control of congress, and it was during that small time frame that the ACA was passed"

vhttps://www.ohio.com/article/20120909/NEWS/309099447

Within that four month time frame could President Obama have included a public option in the ACA, or Medicare for ALL?

Not likely. People seem to conveniently forget that there were blue dog Democrats
who made it very clear they would not vote for a public option or Medicare for All. They were Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, Nelson in Florida, Nelson in Nebraska, and I believe Mark Pryor. Contrary to what some like to project, we didn't have the votes, and there was NOT ONE republican who was willing to vote for any healthcare package with the Democrats, let alone one with a public option or Medicare for all

For those who think trashing the ACA, which was landmark legislation on healthcare, is good "political strategy", should perhaps put things in perspective, and instead tell us what you would do when you don't have the majority.

[questionseverything]

418. the 60 vote thing is an senate rule and we could of changed it if we actually wanted good healthcare

the final form of the aca was actually passed with 50 plus 1 thru reconciliation

[still_one]

420. If we have the majority

[questionseverything]

422. which we did in 2008

[betsuni]

431. September 24, 2009 to February 4, 2010. Four months and ten days.

The only time Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

[questionseverything]

448. the Constitution doesnt say anything about filibusters

a simple majority of the senate is enough to change that rule

[Gothmog]

487. The filibuster is here to stay

Link to tweet

[still_one]

398. Please name one candidate running for the Democratic nomination who has said they won't try to work

with the opposition party?



Answer:

NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Curious if you are aware how a bill becomes law, and what happens if you don’t have the majority in one or both chambers

but boy, the sound bite sounds so good, “let’s not try to work with the opposition party”

It is meaningless, unless you have the majority

[Princetonian]

405. Bookmarked for many a future REALITY CHECK

398. Please name one candidate running for the Democratic nomination who has said they won't try to work with the opposition party?

Answer:

NONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Curious if you are aware how a bill becomes law, and what happens if you don’t have the majority you don’t have the majority in one or both chambers

but boy, the sound bite sounds so good, “let’s not try to work with the opposition party”

It is meaningless, unless you have the majority

[still_one]

408. Thanks

[Princetonian]

413. Take another bow.

That ACA history lesson was amazing.

[still_one]

414. You are overdoing it, but you are being very nice

[Skya Rhen]

426. Bookmarked, as well...

[True Dough]

406. Wow! A lot of energy expended in this thread!

Some of y'all must be exhausted by now.

[still_one]

411. Obviously people have a lot of free time

[Skya Rhen]

441. I look forward to this same level of energy being expended in the GE as it relates to canvassing and

voting for the Democratic nominee...

[doc03]

421. That is better than saying Trump voters are

deplorable even though it is true.

[Skya Rhen]

425. Joe hasn't lost his charm...

[revmclaren]

435. Bookmarked.

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Gothmog]

442. Here is some interesting polling

This polling is interesting

Link to tweet

[theophilus]

449. In this day and age I don't mind that he said this if he really doesn't mean it. N/T

[Gothmog]

450. Jill Biden-Joe will win this electiom

Link to tweet

[dawg day]

451. I do wish he'd be positive about his fellow Democrats--

Not sure what he thinks is going to be the benefit of repeatedly praising Republicans. He's not going to get Republican votes.

Maybe he's thinking that voters who are tired of the division will appreciate his outreach... but how many are there, compared to how many of the base need to be motivated to come out. Many of us feel that the "division" is important-- we have to express our complete division with Trump and the GOP that even now supports him in mass quantities.

Sometimes the urge to be bipartisan is not something that fully needs to be followed. And Obama's VP of all people should have noticed that even the GOPers before Trump were mostly inalterably opposed to everything Democrats stand for.

I'd love to know who he thinks are these wonderful GOPers are. Lisa Murkowski? Sort of stuck for any others.

[Gothmog]

473. I agree with Ellen

You can be friends with people you disagree with

Link to tweet

[empedocles]

479. I agree with 'working' with Republicans. I don't agree with Ellen. Politicians

are always using photo ops, often to mislead. Whether it's using babies, athletes, celebrities. Ellen a decent sort it seems, is being used by Bush for moderation. [Ellen may be using Bush for conservative viewer gets. However, this seems a bit like a soft, inside deal, where they each get to mislead a bit].

[Celerity]

474. Virtually all Republican white evangelical Protestants (99%) and Republicans

who say Fox News is their primary source of news (98%) oppose Trump being impeached and removed from office. Republicans remain unified across education levels, with 96% of Republicans with a college degree opposing impeachment, alongside 92% of Republicans without a four-year degree.

FRACTURED NATION

WIDENING PARTISAN POLARIZATION AND KEY ISSUES IN 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS

https://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PRRI_Oct_AVS-web.pdf

[redqueen]

475. Is this supposed to make Biden look bad?

We may disagree completely on many things, but we have to work together to make any progress.

[PubliusEnigma]

476. Biden will win because he doesn't try to eradicate the other side. He offers them a way out.

[BeyondGeography]

477. They were intimidated when Obama was President, too

They were and remain afraid of their own voters, which makes them useless to us on the big issues. Joe knows this, he’s just selling bipartisanship. The problem for him is it’s a weak sell.

[Gothmog]

480. Weld said Trump's strongest opponent is Biden because "he's a lunch-pail Democrat

Link to tweet

[BlueMTexpat]

481. The good ones

have either died or joined the Democratic Party.

What's left is a shambles.

[treestar]

485. Being in the Senate all those years, he knows more of them

than we do. We only know the worst ones who make the news.

[Gothmog]

486. Key Republicans say Biden can break Washington gridlock

Link to tweet

But key Senate Republicans say they feel more optimistic about working with him compared to other Democratic presidential candidates.

"I think Joe Biden has the ability to work across party lines, absolutely I do," said Graham, the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman who was one of the authors of the bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill the Senate passed in 2013 but that later died in the House.

Graham said he's not so sure whether Warren or Sanders would be as effective.

"I don't know," he said when asked about the chances of compromise with Warren and Sanders. "That's going to be the challenge of the next president, whoever they are. Biden's track record is real."

Graham also expressed his warm regard for Biden, which is shared by a variety of Republicans who worked with him on Capitol Hill.

"I very much like Joe Biden. I think he's one of the most decent people I've ever met. He suffered tremendous tragedy," Graham added, referring to the death of Biden's then wife and 13-month-old daughter in a 1972 car accident and the death of his son Beau at age 46 of cancer.

[Celerity]

489. this thread is not ageing well, lolol, regardless of the desperate attempts to rationalise this tosh

[Gothmog]

491. there is some evidence that Mr. Biden can connect with these voters.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

492. Poll: GOP voters drawn to Biden more than other 2020 Democrats

Link to tweet

Republican voters are more drawn to former Vice President Joe Biden than to the rest of the candidates in the crowded Democratic presidential primary field, according to a new nationwide survey.

The Hill-HarrisX poll released Monday shows that 33 percent of GOP respondents named Biden as the Democratic candidate who came the closest to sharing their political views.

Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg received the second-highest support among Republican voters at 30 percent and 28 percent thought Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) better aligned with their views.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg both garnered 26 percent of respondents who said the candidates closely shared their values.

Biden, the front-runner in most national polls, has long sought to position himself as the most electable challenger to President Trump.

[Gothmog]

497. Joe is getting support from Republicans

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

500. Joe Bidens NH team announces '100 NH Independents for Biden

100 independents are supporting Joe including a former GOP senator and former Republican NH First Lady Dorothy Peterson

Link to tweet