Biden is crafting a message for the general election.

[Drunken Irishman]

You can call it presumptuous but he understands the pathway to victory in Nov., 2020, and it's not by saying, "I won't work with the other side..."

It doesn't play well to the left, and the partisans, but guess what? We make up, roughly, 36% of the voting population. At least, that's according to national exit polls from 2016. Guess what? You're not going to win any election with that alone. The nominee is going to have to expand that level of support. The fact is, nationally, Trump won independent voters 46-42 over Hillary and they made up 31% of the national vote.

It's also important to realize that ideologically, liberals are even a smaller total of the voting electorate. In 2016, liberals made up just 26% of the electorate. Moderates? 39% - a higher total than self-identified Democrats. Hillary was able to win moderate voters 52-40, but in 2012, Obama carried that group 56-41. Trump did only one-point worse than Romney, but Hillary did four-points worse than Obama.

My point? I hate to say it, but Biden isn't playing to you. Not right now, anyway. He's doing what he can do to not box himself in as a candidate assuming he likely has a good shot at winning the nomination. Moreover, he realizes his perspective is probably shared by a good amount of Democrats.

But Biden's running as a uniter. I don't see how he can do that if he's saying that he won't work with Republicans. In fact, I think Biden is banking on that being a huge pillar for his campaign because Trump has proven inept at reaching compromise. If both candidates are unyielding in their compromise, it will either turn voters off and they'll stay home, or they'll just say, "fuck it" and vote Trump because, well, better the devil you know...

Do I believe Biden really, truly believes what he's saying? No. But I do believe he's been in Washington long enough to know what sells and what doesn't. Playing up bipartisanship is always a winner at the presidential level because it's nearly one thing EVERYONE can agree on. It's smart politics...even if it doesn't seem smart in the primary sense.

[Skya Rhen]

1. Joe knows the ropes and he's playing for the long haul. I trust him...

[DownriverDem]

24. Since

trump does not want to run against Biden, that says it all.

[Cha]

2. trump has proven he

hates Dems and the Democratic party.. and wants to destroy America.. and our relationships with our allies.. while sucking up to the world's dictators and despots.

Biden is the polar opposite.. like you say.. "a uniter". It's the way to "get shit done".. as Peggysue says in her excellent post here..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=244356

I can't see any of the other candidates saying they won't try to work with repubs, either.

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis, DI.

[rusty quoin]

3. I gotta apologize to you. I did a post that was stupid. It's not the first time. I'm sure you do

Not remember, but we are all about the Democrat.

[Cha]

14. I remember some little dust up..

nothing specific. Your name is easy to remember.

Anyway, I accept!

[Demsrule86]

40. We all make posts like that.

[George II]

71. .

[melman]

4. "Do I believe Biden really, truly believes what he's saying? No."

This is good? Seriously, let me get this straight... You, a Biden supporter, are saying this is good?


That he says things he doesn't believe because he knows what "sells" and that's good?


Wow. That is really something.

[Thekaspervote]

5. Politicians walk a very tight rope. If anyone...anyone believes in the good in every man, woman

And child it is him

[Drunken Irishman]

7. I also didn't believe Obama opposed gay marriage when he ran in 2008...

So...

[onetexan]

8. Excellent point

[Eliot Rosewater]

77. I see the Biden bashers have arrived.

Better you to deal with them than me.

[Kahuna7]

84. I also didn't believe Obama when he said he opposed gay marriage in 2008...

He knew that change could only be achieved by working the refs from the inside. He did that. And now we somehow...allowed trump to add 2 justices to SCOTUS.

[betsuni]

12. A politician isn't a religious leader or activist.

Doesn't matter what their personal beliefs are, they represent the people. For example, Bernie Sanders obviously was always in favor of same-sex marriage but said it was a state's right issue until supporting it in 2009. That's the job.

[melman]

16. Saying things you don't believe is the job?

That's an interesting outlook.

[betsuni]

19. What is "belief"? That's religion.

If you are a Catholic and don't believe in abortion, why wouldn't you respect the law as a politician and support abortion? Unless a person is a Republican.

[treestar]

68. What I was just thinking

It would be wrong for a politician to ignore the law, or an executive bureaucrat, because of their own beliefs. Kim Davis comes to mind.

[treestar]

67. Saying what you will support and that can be different from what you believe.

It is not the job to just do what you want unless you are Trump. No matter what you believe is purely right, you are representing the people of the US, not yourself.

[DownriverDem]

25. Well I

believe what Biden is saying. Focus on beating trump folks. Infighting does no good.

[Cary]

31. How easily and seamlessly you twist words

Melman, why not give your fellow liberals the benefit of the doubt? What exactly is it that you think you have to lose by being a little nicer?

We have a Nazi in the White House. The poster you attack clearly wants to vote that Nazi out. It's kind of urgent that we do, I think, With that urgency is it really too much to ask of you to show just a little unity?

[peggysue2]

49. Thank you!

We have a Nazi in the White House. The poster you attack clearly wants to vote that Nazi out. It's kind of urgent that we do, I think, With that urgency is it really too much to ask of you to show just a little unity?

Exactly right and needs to be stated again and again.

Btw, there's a big difference between 'vetting' and nit-picking our candidates to death which is particularly counterproductive when we're in a fight for our lives, when who, what and where we're headed rests on removing an illegitimate, unfit and immoral man from the White House.

We have a Nazi in the White House.

That says it all. That's the 5-alarm that should have every Democrat and right-thinking American on their feet, speaking with one voice. We're only going to get one shot at this. We must make it count with whomever our nominee is because all our candidates are 1000x better than the demented asshole we presently have.

We're fighting for our lives and the future. We need to remember that.

[Cary]

57. Agreed

[Eliot Rosewater]

78. But of course, as if Joe is the first politician to say things that he may or may not believe

can actually happen but says them so as to get people to get involved etc.

for instance I say we should have single payer and more democratic socialist policies (does anyone else say this) but anybody saying this KNOWS how unlikely it is to happen anytime soon given we have to deal with FILTH like the entire republican party as it stands now.

I am so fucking sick of the god damn Democratic party BASHERS that I see...so sick

Some of them have NO intention of voting for an actual Democrat.

[Demsrule86]

41. It is called winning the election...and you have to try...Biden is not naive he knows the

difficulties...but if he can sway enough GOP types we might just take the Senate...either way, you have to try.

[Cary]

58. Ari Melber had an interesting take this morning

In 2016 those who saw negatives in both Hillary and Orange Hitler broke for Orange Hitler.

Right now they are breaking against Orange Hitler. Right now doesn't count but it is a good sign. The lesson is don't add fuel to the "negaitves" of our candidates.

This is common sense. I have been saying this for decades but some people can't seem to he able to help themselves.

[Demsrule86]

62. I remember saying it too...last time.

Let's hope the nominee is pretty much assured after Super Tuesday.

[Cary]

65. And I remember you saying it too.

Let's hope.

It does feel a little healthier this time.

[rusty quoin]

6. I like Biden, but many on the far left hate him. We are doing this tight rope walk here.

Obviously I like Warren because she is from the left but she is not hated by anybody but Republicans.

Bernie is hated. Hillary was hated. So scratch them both out. We do not need someone who is so hated by so many although undeserved. How do you fight that?

The thing about Joe, though he is good, I worry about things he might say.

Warren will not do that, at least, much less. And she is so much more. I think her numbers will continue on up.

I like Joe, but I’m uncertain to say the least.

[DownriverDem]

26. The Far Left

needs to focus on a candidate that can win the Electoral College which means state by state. The country is not far left. If Biden picks a strong, progressive, Democratic woman, it will be a formidable ticket. Joe can beat trump. trump does not want to run against Joe. Focus folks. Many of our Dem candidates need to stay in the Senate. We see how it goes with moscow mitch and if the repubs keep the Senate we can all kiss our progressive goals bye bye. Wake up people.

[Demsrule86]

42. I like Warren but she will not win a general IMHO...as for the far left the stein voting swine...

fuck them.

[BeyondGeography]

9. No candidate is saying they won't work with Republicans.

Warren eg does this whenever the question of bipartisanship comes up:

The problem many of us have is we know from experience that a President Warren would have trouble getting even a bill as sensible as that signed with a McConnell-led Senate in the mix because that would be handing a victory to a Democratic President.

Biden had a front-row seat for that phenomenon for eight years so, instead of spouting generalities about epiphanies and what nice guys and gals they are, tell us specifically why the dynamic would change with him in power. Or even better, rally the troops to elect as many Democrats as possible so we don’t have to watch that movie anymore.

[DownriverDem]

28. Biden

knows how it works in and out of the White House. Many folks in the Obama Admistration would be picked for the Biden Administration. We need a woman VP. We need Dems to win the Senate. Go Joe!

[loyalsister]

34. He was also there for decades before

After Reagan pulled the republicans further and further right, cutting the safety net and catering to corporate interests. Dems gave in and followed that game plan in the 90s and ordinary people who they once represented paid the price.

Trump is a symptom of the callous Christianity that was born out of the partnership of evangelicals and insatiable moneyed interest groups. This has been decades in the making and various democratic capitulations have contributed to it's survival. Just getting rid of him and then giving those who enabled him the benefit of the doubt is a non starter.

I want a candidate who has not played nice with the architects of this mess. There is room to have high expectations without presuming that they are going to have a moral epiphany because republicans suddenly see a Democrat as an ally because he has gone along with their demands in the past.

[Demsrule86]

43. Do you understand we lost the presidency for 12 years starting with Reagan...and it was a miracle

we won in 92...Clinton never had a majority...and despite all the whining about Clinton there was good there...and we got to SCOTUS picks that would have gone to the other side. The country has shifted right that is what happens when you elect GOP presidents...and Joe never 'went along' with demands...he got the best deal he could...but I will say this the compromise that is needed to fix this country will be something no one likes that much...something for everyone...that is the nature of compromise without which our republican will fail.

[TrunKated]

55. um....

The only reason Clinton didn't get a majority of the vote was because Ross Perot ran...

I don't think it was a miracle at all. Bush was boring and he had economic issues under his watch.

Clinton was very charismatic and a "great communicator." And he kept to the center mostly.

And Reagan had to commit treason by conspiring with Iran in order to win to begin with.

[Demsrule86]

63. The only reason Clinton won was because of Ross Perot...he took votes away from Papa Bush...

and four years later...Pat Buchanan did it again...Clinton never had a majority in two terms...and the country has moved right...one has only to look at state government and the Senate to see this clearly...we will be fortunate to beat Trump this year.

[TrunKated]

64. I've seen studies...

... that said Perot did not really help Clinton.

[JonLP24]

10. He took $200,000 to give a speech for a Republican during the 2018 midterms

He is too close to the Republicans in DC that are supported by a very toxic full of shit party.

I'm voting for someone else largely because of his bankruptcy reform and Iraq War vote. I know he doesn't want my vote (though I keep getting Biden ads so he does want money from me).

[betsuni]

13. Not the OMG A DEMOCRAT NOT IN OFFICE GAVE A SPEECH FOR MONEY!111 thing again.

"He took $200,000 to give a speech for a Republican during the 2018 midterms. He is too close to the Republicans in DC ... ."

Earning money doesn't corrupt everybody.

[Cha]

15. Eeeek!

canapes

[betsuni]

17. BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITH CANAPES.

But that only applies to ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS. Biden's PAID SPEECH wasn't even Democratic or Republican. Cancer isn't political.

[empedocles]

33. "Can a peas" - frankie five angels

[OKNancy]

18. He did not give a speech for the Republican

That's a GOP talking point. He gave a speech where Rep. Upton was in attendance and he did compliment him on his work with cancer legislation which is a subject near and dear to Biden's heart. The bill was a bipartisan bill, one of the few in Congress.
You can disagree politically but still work together on something like cancer research.

[betsuni]

20. Thank you.

I hate propaganda.

[Celerity]

50. it is a GOP 'talking point', but NOT the way you mean it, they literally used it in their adverts

to HELP legitimise Upton, and he won by a small margin, by far the closest race of his career.

If any other candidate had done this, people would be positively howling for their head on a pike.


Joe Biden’s Paid Speech Buoyed the G.O.P. in Midwest Battleground

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html

Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race of his career.

But Mr. Biden was not there to denounce Mr. Upton. Instead, he was collecting $200,000 from the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan to address a Republican-leaning audience, according to a speaking contract obtained by The New York Times and interviews with organizers. The group, a business-minded civic organization, is supported in part by an Upton family foundation. Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience. Alluding to Mr. Upton’s support for a landmark medical-research law, Mr. Biden called him a champion in the fight against cancer — and “one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.”

Mr. Biden’s remarks, coming amid a wide-ranging discourse on American politics, quickly appeared in Republican advertising. The local Democratic Party pleaded with Mr. Biden to repair what it saw as a damaging error, to no avail. On Nov. 6, Mr. Upton defeated his Democratic challenger by four and a half percentage points.

As Mr. Biden considers a bid for the presidency in 2020, the episode underscores his potential vulnerabilities in a fight for the Democratic nomination and raises questions about his judgment as a party leader. Mr. Biden has attempted to strike a balance since leaving office, presenting himself as a unifying statesman who could unseat President Trump while also working to amass a modest fortune of several million dollars. But Mr. Biden’s appearance in Michigan plainly set his lucrative personal activities at odds with what some Democrats saw as his duty to the party, linking him with a civic group seen as tilting to the right and undermining Democrats’ effort to defeat Mr. Upton, a powerful lawmaker who in 2017 helped craft a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Eric Lester, a retired physician who chaired the Democratic Party in Berrien County, Mich., during the midterms, said he viewed Mr. Biden’s supportive remarks about Mr. Upton as a betrayal. Mr. Lester, who attended the speech, said he had confronted an aide to Mr. Biden in the hallway, telling him the former vice president had badly damaged the Democratic cause. “It just gives Fred Upton cover and makes it possible for him to continue to pretend to be a useful, bipartisan fellow,” Mr. Lester recalled saying, adding, “I entered the hall with positive feelings about Mr. Biden and felt very frustrated.”

snip



Not only did Upton vote to repeal the ACA, but he also, post 2018, voted to take away pre-existing protections, along with numerous other horrid votes (not just on healthcare) his entire career.

Rep. Fred Upton: key health care votes

https://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/400414






Upton's Trump Score from 2016-2018 (115th Congress)

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/house/




some of his votes

[George II]

70. So now our Democrats should run their lives in fear that sometime somewhere in the future....

....a republican might lie about what they say?

If that's the case they might as well crawl in a hole and avoid the public for the rest of their lives.

I don't know what the point of that slew of votes is that you posted, but the event where Biden spoke was NOT a political event, he didn't know that Upton was going to be at the event until he got there, and he spoke about cancer research and his own career. In case anyone didn't realize, cancer research is probably the biggest non-political topic in Joe Biden's life.

Is this now off-topic for Democrats? Are they expected to ask to see the official voter registration of everyone who attends any of their event to make sure there aren't any republicans there?

This "issue", which isn't an issue except for some, has been bunked, debunked, and de-debunked more times than necessary. But some still drag it out when it serves the "narrative".

[George II]

73. Instead of calling my post a failed "gish-gallop of rationalisation and deflection" and posting....

Upton's voting record, with which many of us here are already familiar, you might have looked into what the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan is all about, and found it's not a political organization.

Biden spoke as a favor of the Upton FAMILY (not the candidate) in return for the family's support of cancer research.

The Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan sponsors a non-political speaking series each year.

The lineup is set for the next season of the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan Speaker Series. The season kicks off October 16 with retired US Air Force Colonel Nicole Malachowski, who was the first female Thunderbird pilot and also was a combat veteran, fighter squadron commander, and a White House Fellow and advisor. She will be followed on November 2 by Emmy Award-winning journalist Ann Curry. On December 2nd, Detroit Free Press columnist, author, and Detroit radio host Mitch Albom will come to Benton Harbor. After a few months off, former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will address the Econ Club on March 18, followed by National Geographic Live underwater photographer Brian Skerry, and the season wraps up on May 19 with the Fonz, actor Henry Winkler. The Young Professionals special presentation speaker will be Nic Sheff, the author of “Beautiful Boy,” who is also a recovering addict. All keynote presentations next season will be in the Mendel Center Mainstage, a change from past years when the address was given in the Grand Upton Hall.

https://www.wsjm.com/2019/05/01/2019-2020-speaker-series-lineup-announced-for-economic-club-of-southwestern-michigan/

[Celerity]

74. If any other of our POTUS candidates had kneecapped the local Dems and Matt Longjohn

like that, weeks before the election, you would be howling up until this very day.

Giving him a pass on this is complete selective outrage on display.

To say it was not a political event is laughable. The Rethugs used it in their adverts to legitimise the RW'er Upton.

Your attempts to try and place it an apolitical vacuum ring hollow.

I posted Upton's votes to show he was a RW POS before the speech and after.

cheers

[George II]

76. Like I said, look into the Club that organized that appearance and the others who speak before them.

You and others are trying to make a non-political event into a campaign appearance for a republican. It simply wasn't that at all.

cheers

[DrFunkenstein]

88. Upton "one of the finest guys I've ever worked with" (no response to Dem candidate asking for help)

Though it wasn't a formal endorsement, Biden's speech praised Upton for his support of a piece of cancer research legislation (Biden's son Beau died of cancer in 2015) and called him "one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.”

As the Times reported, that phrase quickly appeared in Republican advertising, and when Upton's Democratic challenger tried to get the former vice president to do something in response, “There was nothing but silence,” the candidate, Matt Longjohn, told the paper. (Upton ultimately won by 4.5 points, the smallest margin of his career.)

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw8zy7/of-course-joe-biden-supported-a-republican-in-a-dollar200k-speech

[DownriverDem]

29. I only

vote for true members of the Democratic Party.

[theaocp]

35. Good to know you're voting for ALL of the current candidates, since they're all Dems. n/t

[in2herbs]

51. Bernis is an independent. nt

[Buzz cook]

59. So not voting fpr Bernie?

If Sanders gets the nomination, you're saying you won't vote for him?

[Demsrule86]

44. I only hope those candidates with little to no chance bow out gracefully so we beat Trump.

[George II]

66. For about the 100th time, he did NOT give a speech "for a republican during the 2018 midterms".

[Cha]

69. Where do these talking points come from?

[Hekate]

11. All good points, DI. It's what I've sensed, & you articulate it very well

Thanks.

[elocs]

21. The Democratic Party should be a big tent, welcoming those who broadly agree with one another,

but not necessarily on every point. No faction on the Democratic spectrum should claim that only they are righteous and noble enough to be true Democrats. Nobody who has voted for and supported Democrats for years or decades should suffer being mocked and put down as being "DINOs" or "Republican Lite" just because they are not Liberal enough for some.
The GOP has moved so far to the hard right that not even the most conservative Democrat would find a place for themselves in that party because it really has no room for even moderate Republicans.
In 2020, if Democrats do not unite and stand together then there is a good chance that Trump will be reelected. It's really up to us.

[DownriverDem]

30. It is a big tent

I wish folks understood political strategy. It's not who I want or who you want. It's who can win the Electoral College.

[theaocp]

36. The fuck it's not who we want.

That's the point of primaries. Everybody thinks their candidate has this magical grip on political strategy. Biden folks can hope he keeps his strategy of showing off his Republican whispering skills for as long as he likes, but he's gonna take the hits for that approach.

[Skya Rhen]

39. We went through this whole exercise several months ago and it had no effect on his front-runner

status.

If it is truly expected to hit him hard, I would assume that the other candidates would delight in him proceeding with this strategy, instead of wishing for him to discontinue it...

[Demsrule86]

46. Primaries should be a means for choosing a candidate who can win a general...nominating someone

who has no chance in a general is foolish and enables Republicans.

[Celerity]

75. +10000

[elocs]

47. It "should" be a big tent, but those of us who are not Liberal enough

all but get invited to take a hike except our votes are needed to win.

[honest.abe]

22. Yes, that is how is see it as well.

Hopefully those on the left who are freaked out by this will come to their senses by election day.

[Amimnoch]

23. Only 4 years out of the last 36 years.. That's all.

Since President Carter left office in 1981.. 36 years ago.. The Democratic Party has had the House + Senate + Presidency for exactly 4 years total. The first 2 years of President Obama’s presidency, and the first 2 years of President Clintons Presidency.

In 2020, hitting that 50 member mark where our VP would be breaking the tie in the Senate and giving us a senate majority is going to be a rough battle by the map. It’s in the realm of possibility, but is a long shot at this point. 2022’s map holds much more promise.

It is absolutely stupid for any of our candidates to take any other position other than one that will attempt to work with both parties as POTUS.

Yes, they have shown NO interest at ALL in working with us for the last 10 (I’d say longer, but 10 years is what people seem to be focused on).

What Biden says is true, those who would work with us have been held hostage.. first by the tea party, then by Trump.

Many of them who didn’t hop on the Tea Party train, got primaried and removed. Those who didn’t get behind Trump.. same. Using critical thinking and trying to see it from their point of view, I can see why those who remain who “would” work with us on things are currently frozen out from actually doing so. they won’t win Democratic Party voters by doing so, and without that 30%ish base, they won’t be reelected, and will be replaced by someone who is more willing to work with Cheetolini.

The “remedy”? A Democratic Party leader that makes the offer to work across lines that actually does remove Trump, and makes their current wave of populism, nationalism, and fascism a “losing” ticket.

It is a GOOD thing for our candidates to take the stance that they will TRY to work with both parties. The important quantifier though is that our candidates need to be ready for no cooperation, and be ready to steamroll legislation through as much as possible with the House and Senate WE enable them with.

[brer cat]

37. Good post.

I think most people are tired of hyperpartisan government. McConnell's obstruction only appeals to hard-core republicans and they are not going to swing this election.

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. Not all independent voters are alike, -very dangerous assumption

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 09:56 AM - Edit history (2)

And you ignore nonvoting/third party voting progressive independents from 2016- IIRC, 6.5% of rust belt voters voted third party in, as compared to 1.5% who voted for Nader in Florida in 2000(as well as first time voting progressives for 2020- see Parkland kids). Self identifying as "moderate" has no standard definition other than perhaps the thought that "I'm not an extremist like those other folks", without realizing that they agree with the "extreme" policy positions of the liberals- heck, a majority of conservatives agree with liberal-originating policies like background checks, universal healthcare, and marriage equality.

The professor (Bitecofer) who was the only person to accurately predict the number of seats the Dems would flip in the 2018 Blue Wave feels 2020 will not be won by flipping Trump voting independents, but by inspiring progressive independent voters who detest Republicans and their corrupt policies to vote for the Dem nominee.

Links to threads on Bitecofer's analysis:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212308814

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287185199

This means significantly increasing the youth vote. That won't happen by nominating a centrist, Status Quo, pragmatic Incrementalist.

If we significantly increase the youth turnout, WE WILL WIN.

[rzemanfl]

53. I have to decide whether to wash socks. BBL. n/t

[TDale313]

32. It's a strategy.

Ya do actually have to get through the primaries first, though...

[Gothmog]

38. IF a Democrat wins in 2020, that Democrat will have to repair the damage done by trump

If a Democrat wins in 2020 (that is NOT a given), that Democrat will have to rebuild our country. trump has done a tremendous amount of damage to the institutions. The State department has been gutted and other organizations decimated. That work will require working with republicans. Tom Perez and Eric Holder had to rebuild the voting rights and civil rights sections of the DOJ after 8 years of Bush. trump has probably done far more damage to these institutions in just one term. Rebuilding our institutions after trump will not be easy and will take the cooperation of both Democrats and many Republicans.

It is not assured that any Democrat can win in 2020. Most POTUS are re-elected unless there is a recession. If a Democrat wins in 2020, that Democrat will have a very hard job of undoing the damage done by trump and that work will require working with republicans as well as Democrats. Again, I live in Texas which is still a red state but may change. That means that I have to live with and work with republicans in the real world. I think that there are many good republicans and we will need these republicans to rebuild our government IF trump is defeated.

This polling is interesting

Link to tweet

[peggysue2]

52. This!

Whoever our nominee is, once the election is won that Democratic Administration will need to spend considerable energy in restoring and repairing before we can ever move forward. The damage is real and if not turned around will be lasting. Every department and agency has been impacted. We've lost scads of professionals, scientists and highly skilled people because of the chaos agents and enablers in the WH. We've lost alliances and friends abroad while empowering despots and tyrants.

The restoration will not be done with a magic wand or incantations. It will require real political and legislative skill to even begin to turn things around. And yes, that means we're going to need some Republicans on board because our system requires bipartisanship to get shit done. The majority of the Democratic electorate realizes this. No one is calling for the surrender of our principles, simply that we work smart in order to be effective.

That 52% in the poll is very telling.

[Joe941]

56. polls are indicating it is an almost certainty that whoever runs against tRump will win.

[onetexan]

61. not a diss at Hillary but look what happened in 2016 when all the polls were showing her winning

i'm a huge Hillary supporter. But at this juncture i don't trust the polls as much given what happened.

[Scurrilous]

45. K&R

[cwydro]

48. Rec.

[Joe941]

54. I agree. Biden is a savvy politician...

and he knows what wins elections. He has to say he will be a uniter and work with the other side. That being said he knows in his heart he will never work with the enemy. That is something you have to say to be a politician. No politician that says "I'm not working with the other side" will win a national election. Joe knows exactly what he is doing and its brilliant.

[highplainsdem]

60. K&R

[Maven]

79. So your pitch for Biden is that he's good at being insincere? nt

[Drunken Irishman]

81. No. My pitch is that he's going to win.

And he'll win on a message that resonates.

[Gothmog]

80. Jill Biden-Joe will win this election

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

82. Joe Biden still bests fellow Democrats on electability, polls show

Link to tweet

[Kahuna7]

83. IMO, a lot of the never-trump repubs are begging us to nominate Biden

so that they can vote for a Democrat in good conscience. I see them on cable news daily. So, those are the former strategists and representatives on television. But, I believe their desire for us to nominate Biden is shared by many other Republicans and Indies who can no longer deny that the emperor has no clothes. So, they are faced with a dilemma. Do they sit out the election or vote for the devil they know because they find the "progressive" Democrat a pill too hard to chew?

[DrFunkenstein]

85. The Rockefeller Republicans Can Sit Out While Warren Drives Big Turnout

With her highly disciplined populist message.

Mexico will not be paying for that wall, the factories are still closed, and the tariffs are killing the farmers. Raising the taxes on the wealthy to help the middle class is a winning message.

Trump is toast and his people are already starting to squirm in their seats at the prospect of Warren's populist fire.

[Kahuna7]

86. Hmm. I doubt that. If she's more electable, her head to head polling

Last edited Sun Sep 8, 2019, 06:44 AM - Edit history (1)

has yet to reflect that.

[crazytown]

87. What's Joe's plan for corruption?

Is that part of his message for the GE?

[Gothmog]

89. Joe Biden's appeal actually isn't a mystery

Link to tweet

Biden shows reverence for the most popular Democrat around, former president Barack Obama; others find fault in everything from the Affordable Care Act to immigration policy. Biden does not bombard voters with a torrent of multi-part plans; he gives them a few basic positions and defends them. Biden does not campaign from the neck up; he campaigns with his heart on his sleeve. Biden is deeply optimistic; his opponents think Americans are the problem, not Trump. (I don’t suggest that his opponents are wrong, merely that their stance apparently isn’t as popular as they thought.) Biden wants normalcy plus reform; his opponents want a peaceful revolution. Biden knows people want to be heard and seen; his opponents (with the exception of Sen. Kamala D. Harris) don’t fully grasp this. They want to “help," to pepper people with ideas and a to-do list, while Biden takes the time to listen to them. (Think of the well-meaning friend who has a thousand suggestions when you are grieving and you’d rather they just shut up and commiserate.)

This is the grouchy-white-guy-in-the-diner problem all over again. Reporters are blinded by their own age, background, education and geography. Instead of going to West Virginia diners to find the Trump voter, reporters should go talk to the residents of The Villages in Florida, the African American churchgoing ladies and the buttoned-down professionals in the affluent suburbs (the Romney-Clinton voters). These people have endured a noisy, offensive and intrusive presence in the White House. They don’t necessarily want a different noisy, intrusive presence — even one they agree with on substance.

Part of the “mystery” of Biden’s appeal would be solved if the moderators flipped their questions, as one smart Democrat not in the Biden camp put it. Instead of asking Biden or another moderate, “Why aren’t you going with the big, bold idea of Medicare-for-all?,” the moderators might consider asking Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) or Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), “Why blow up Obamacare, and why don’t you trust people to choose Medicare if given the option?” Instead of assuming that extreme proposals are the standard, requiring the moderates to explain why they are such wet blankets, the moderators should press the super-progressives on questions such as: What makes you think that voters want to go through another health-care makeover? Why should poorer people pay for richer people’s health care or subsidize their college debt?

Better yet, ask the candidates to relate the personal story from a voter who moved them the most, or the last voter whose phone number they took so that the candidate could call later, or the most insightful thing they have heard from a voter. It might reveal who is talking at voters and who is listening to them.

[Gothmog]

90. NEW POLL: Biden's health care proposal more popular than Medicare for All

Link to tweet

A new poll finds that more voters favor an optional government-run health insurance plan, as former Vice President Joe Biden advocates, than full-scale "Medicare for All" that eliminates private health insurance, as advocated by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

The poll could give credence to Biden's argument against his main two rivals in the Democratic White House race, Sanders and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), that an optional plan is more popular in a general election than the full-scale Medicare for All that Sanders and Warren advocate.

The USC/Los Angeles Times poll finds that 48 percent of eligible voters surveyed support giving everyone the option of a government-run health insurance plan, compared to just 14 percent who oppose it. Thirty-eight percent had not heard enough to have an opinion.

The full-scale Medicare for All, which eliminates private health insurance, polls somewhat worse. That proposal gets 39 percent support to 34 percent opposition.

[Gothmog]

91. The hardest job for the next president may be fixing Trump's mess

This is one of the reasons why I think that Joe Biden is the best candidate. Who ever is the nominee will have to be prepared to fix all of the damage that trump has done to our government.

Link to tweet

Perhaps the most straightforward and least complicated undertaking, since it would be entirely within the next president’s purview, is rebuilding the executive branch from the corrupted ruin Trump will leave behind.

One of the most underreported stories about the Trump administration is its basic incompetence. Perhaps Trump’s biggest con of all was convincing his supporters that he was some sort of business wizard with a genius for management. In truth, the Trump Organization was a mom-and-pop family business that he repeatedly micromanaged to the brink of collapse. He is doing exactly the same with the government of the United States.

The White House itself is less like “The West Wing” than “Game of Thrones.” Courtiers vie for the favor of the Mad King, unable or unwilling to perform normal duties for fear of risking Trump’s ire. Usually, the White House is a place where information from outside sources is synthesized and digested so the president can make the best possible decisions. Under Trump, the flow is reversed — his whims, however ill-informed or contradictory or just plain loopy, are tweeted out and must be made into policy.

Agencies vital to our national security — including the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency — lumber along, month after month, without permanent leadership. “It’s easier to make moves when they’re acting,” Trump has said, but really the situation reflects his own insecurity. By keeping his underlings weak and beholden only to him, he limits their power — and thus hamstrings the departments they nominally lead.

Joe Biden is the best candidate to repair the damage done by trump. I think that the repair of this damage will keep the next Democratic President very busy.