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Undecided 44%
Elizabeth Warren20%
Joe Biden15%
Bernie Sanders9%
Pete Buttigieg5%

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:18 AM

 

6 winners and 3 losers from CNN's climate town hall

This is a fairly good article about last night's climate debate. While I do not agree with all conclusions, I certainly agree that Jay Inslee, CNN, the audience questioners and the Democratic Party are the BIG winners!

I prefer this format to the usual debate format. Thanks to CNN for presenting it.

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/5/20850009/cnn-climate-town-hall-2020-presidential-democrats-winners-and-losers

I loved that ALL our candidates believe that the fossil fuel industry MUST be restricted and curtailed.

Snippets:

...
The CNN climate town hall once again showed just how much the Overton window has moved for Democrats on climate change. President Obama openly boasted about increasing US fossil fuel production, fossil fuel exports, and low gasoline prices. Climate change barely came up at all in the 2016 presidential race.

Now Democrats are describing all kinds of ways they will hold the fossil fuel industry accountable for its pollution and emissions, and they are charting the course for weaning American off its products.
...
Subsidies to oil and gas companies, which all the candidates oppose, also came up; Sanders wants to end them entirely by 2050. “What goes on right now is we are giving the fossil fuel industry approximately $400 billion every single year in subsidies and tax breaks,” Sanders said.

Yang and Warren highlighted just how the industry has distracted and manipulated the public on climate change; Yang described how he intends to reduce the industry’s influence in politics. “You know how they’ve been spending some of their money, their billions of dollars in profit?” he said. “On a misinformation campaign to the American people, and they’ve taken our legislature hostage. They have the fossil fuel lobbying industry that’s in the tens of millions a year.”

The candidates differ in their timelines for transitioning off fossil fuels, but the forum made it clear just how unified they are in their commitment to policy that will radically restrict and curtail this industry come 2020.


It's worth a read.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply 6 winners and 3 losers from CNN's climate town hall (Original post)
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 OP
CrispyQ Sep 2019 #1
Amimnoch Sep 2019 #4
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #19
RobertDevereaux Sep 2019 #2
BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #8
oasis Sep 2019 #12
cwydro Sep 2019 #13
CaliforniaPeggy Sep 2019 #3
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #20
at140 Sep 2019 #5
Hortensis Sep 2019 #6
Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #10
BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #7
Hortensis Sep 2019 #11
BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #14
Hortensis Sep 2019 #15
BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #16
Hortensis Sep 2019 #17
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #22
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #21
Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #9
Baclava Sep 2019 #18
BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #23

Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:30 AM

1. Loser: Meat

 

That was a pleasant surprise to this long time veggie.

snip...

Loser: meat

Several candidates had to contend with variations from the audience on one of the trickiest climate questions: How will you encourage Americans to reduce meat consumption, given the disproportionate greenhouse gas emissions of beef production compared to other foods?

snip...

Several candidates also used the diet question as an opportunity to point out that Republicans have made the hypothetical threat of Democrats taking away Americans’ hamburgers an argument against the Green New Deal. “The important thing to understand is that we can have a more balanced diet and therefore a more balanced footprint and not abolish the cow,” Mayor Pete Buttigieg said. “[Abolishing the cow] is what people are saying about the Green New Deal. Because it’s an easy Republican talking point.”

Buttigieg noted that his carbon tax applied to meat would help curb meat consumption by demonstrating to consumers the climate costs of meat production. “We change the economic signal and bring it into balance, and balance is what we have lost when it comes to our relationship with creation, with the Earth, that sustains our ability to live,” he said.

Booker, who is vegan, suggested that his administration would also rein in subsidies to the meat and dairy industry. “We are going to have to make sure our government is not subsidizing the things that make us sick and unhealthy and hurt our environment and start to incentivize the practices that get farming and get agriculture and get the health of our communities back.” —Eliza Barclay
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:37 AM

4. Like it and hate it..

 

Great idea, but is it a winning one??

Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan.. all heavy Dairy producing industry states. I can already envision the tRumpublican ad/smear campaigns..

The meat side won't have so much 2020 impact I think, but any attack on dairy is going to feed their campaign machine imo.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 03:36 PM

19. I eat less meat these days.

 

But I still love a good steak every so often.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:32 AM

2. Neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the article...

 

Here, in a nutshell, are their "winners" and "losers."

Each section of the article contains a rationale for so designating them.

Winner: Jay Inslee
Winner: the Sunrise Movement
Winner: Bernie Sanders
Winner: the audience questioners
Winner: CNN
Winner: the Democratic Party

Loser: Joe Biden
Loser: oil and gas companies
Loser: meat
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to RobertDevereaux (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 11:12 AM

8. Gee what a stunner

 

Bernie is the big winner at Vox and Biden is the big loser.

What a surprise.



Thanks for saving me the trouble of reading what amounts to a press release from the media wing of the Sanders campaign.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 12:15 PM

12. winner: post #8

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 12:30 PM

13. Gotta agree.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:33 AM

3. Thanks for the link. You're right--it's definitely worth a read. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 03:38 PM

20. Thanks!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:41 AM

5. Even more than climate issues, we direly need Warren for this issue...

 

which is the extraordinary leadership necessary to address the coming financial collapse, which will be worse than in 2008-2009. More people are going to lose more money when this occurs again. Bush-43 created the 2008 financial collapse, and Trump has laid the groundwork for the next collapse.

The formula remains the same. Give tax breaks to the richest 10%, screw the rest, push for artificial low interest rates which create gigantic asset bubbles and the inevitable giant pop, record breaking budget deficits, unnecessary ballooning of military expenditures,,,,,,on and on.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 10:49 AM

6. Good that so many got their messages across, bad that

 

Biden is seen as a "loser." Of all those candidates, except for Inslee's accomplishments in WA while he's been the governor, Biden is actually the one with the longest, strongest overall record of commitment to all the issues -- environmental, energy, fresh water, air, climate, ag, public health and more -- that make up the climate issue.

He started back in, what, 1972?, when almost no one was listening to the sky-is-falling climate warners and very few could get elected or reelected by concentrating on the biggest "green" issues of that time of clean air and/or water. Ever since then Biden has been one of the most reliable, and eventually important men in congress for "green" organizations.

All liberal Democrats who started in congress in the last decade have a 100% or close to "lifetime" record on climate, as rated by the League of Conservation voters, who keep records on all members of congress since I think 1971. Democrats have become aware and being for climate action is required now. Having a good lifetime record starting decades ago when most voters didn't expect or reward it is a whole different matter.

Btw, the liberal candidates in congress all have 100% annual records now. Biden's congressional record stopped back in 2007, just about the time all our caucus's high scores started accumulating and pulling up lifetime averages; so it misses out on that lift, but it's still good. And, since he's been working on them for decades, what he knows about the many technical issues involved has to outweigh by far what most others do.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 11:19 AM

10. +1000 just another bullshit article.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 11:10 AM

7. I stopped reading at Jay Inslee

 

Who is no longer in the race in part because he couldn’t leverage his reputation on this issue into support for his campaign. But he’s the big winner in an event he wasn’t involved in. Vox can be so silly sometimes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 11:37 AM

11. :) How about we and climate are the winners? I'm glad Inslee was there.

 

I'm sorry that Biden didn't come across better.

Just imagine what it means to have years of familiarity with environmental problems and assets, economics, commodities and resources, industry, influential people and their positions, and state of the laws, in 50 states and other areas? Including Inslee's WA, of course, and other states leading on this.

And just imagine the irony and problem of a climate debate being used to try to take out the person who is now, without Inslee, actually our best climate candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 12:41 PM

14. Who is the best candidate on climate?

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 12:50 PM

15. :) Imo, Biden. People need to compare all their RECORDS

 

to see why. It's not that Biden is like an imaginary Inslee who'd been serving in the house and senate since 1972 and as committed over that period as he is now.

But I don't see any upper-tier candidates whose actions can compare with Bidens, and I doubt that most would have his record if they were around as long. Biden's record is better than most older Democrats, much more than some. Above all, he's is proven to have had the right attitude about these issues over decades when relatively few were noticing.

Sanders has been around a while, but his record of achievement or even just involvement is as paltry on climate action as on other issues. Sure, he's made statements and taken positions; but he's always been I-Sanders, and that means his contribution has been his routine +1 vote on bills after they were crafted and brought to the floor by Democratic senators, including Biden.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 12:51 PM

16. Joe is excellent on the issue. Agreed.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 01:02 PM

17. And I agree with your take on this article's puffery of

 

Sanders' verbal air over Biden's substance.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 04:17 PM

22. Biden certainly has the

 

longest record. He was in the Senate from January 5, 1973 – January 15, 2009. Certainly none of the other candidates can compare with that.

And it is true that he was one of the first to propose legislation, along with Al Gore, Chafee and others.

...
The Delaware senator’s first climate change bill, introduced in 1986, died in the Senate. But the following year a version of Biden’s legislation survived as an amendment to a State Department funding bill. President Ronald Reagan went on to sign it into law.

The upshot of Biden’s Global Climate Protection Act was to call on the president to set up a task force to plan how to mitigate global warming.

Biden spoke about the bill on the Senate floor in January 1987 in terms that seem uncannily familiar to present-day warnings. He discussed, among other ills, the threat to human habitat resulting from melting polar ice caps and rising sea levels.
...
At the same time, it’s important not to overstate the impact of Biden’s bill, said Josh Howe, a professor of history and environmental studies at Reed College.

"It's significant insofar as Biden has been more or less on top of the issue since the mid '80s. But let's not stretch the intent of the bill and suggest that this was a comprehensive plan for reducing emissions or adapting to the consequences of climatic change," he said. "It was a plan to make a plan. Which, of course, neither Reagan nor Bush ultimately did."
...


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/08/joe-biden/was-joe-biden-climate-change-pioneer-congress-hist/

Here is Biden's environmental scorecard while he was in the Senate, per the League of Conservation Voters. With a lifetime score of 83%, his grade is about a B-. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/joe-biden

Per the same organization, Elizabeth Warren has a lifetime score of 99%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/elizabeth-warren

As does Cory Booker. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/cory-anthony-booker

Amy Klobuchar has a lifetime score of 96%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/amy-klobuchar

Kamala Harris, who only assumed office in 2017, has a lifetime score of 100%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/kamala-harris

Bernie Sanders has a lifetime score of 92%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/bernie-sanders

Beto O'Rourke has a lifetime score of 95% based on his record in the House. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke

The other candidates don't have Congressional voting records, so far as I know.

Biden may have been an early pioneer, and good for him. But IMO, we can do much better.

Eta the link to the excerpt. Sorry about that!

Another eta to include Tulsi Gabbard's lifetime scorecard in Congress. As she was not among the ten in the climate debate, I hadn't included her before. But even she rates 96%. https://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/tulsi-gabbard
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 03:40 PM

21. You missed why!

 

Everyone who has been following the news knows that Inslee is NOT a candidate.

But because so many have adopted and/or adapted his ideas, he is indeed a big winner.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 11:17 AM

9. More Biden bashing to ignore...I watched the CNN thing...Biden did great.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 01:26 PM

18. CNN:"Tonight's town hall brought to you by Golden Corral's endless meat buffet"

 



CNN wins again
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to Baclava (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 5, 2019, 04:22 PM

23. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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