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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:20 AM Sep 2019

Elizabeth Warren praises a segregationist...major gaffe

During a speech to 20,000 supporters in Manhattan Monday, Elizabeth Warren hailed Frances Perkins, who became a workers rights activist after the deadly 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire.

But Perkins had a less admirable and less well known legacy later in life — as a critic of the Brown vs. Board of Education Supreme Court decision that outlawed segregation in public schools.

Americans, she said at the time of the 1954 decision, “should be nice to Negroes,” but not necessarily have to go to school with them.

And that left the Massachusetts Democratic senator in a position that her staff didn’t want to talk about following her own harsh criticism of fellow presidential candidate Joe Biden over his tone-deaf comments about being pals with a couple of segregationist southern senators.

“I’m not here to criticize other Democrats, but it’s never OK to celebrate segregationists. Never,” Warren sniffed in June after Biden’s gaffes, in which he cited his friendships with Mississippi Sen. James Eastland and Georgia Sen. Herman Talmadge as examples of how to work across the aisle in Congress.


[link:https://nypost.com/2019/09/17/warren-had-her-own-segregationist-gaffe-during-washington-square-rally/|

Joe Biden caught a lot of flak for saying he had the gall to work with segregationists in the Senate, while Warren is praising a woman that is flat out racist as well. Why is Warren not being called out on this? Should she apologize if Biden has to as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
146 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Elizabeth Warren praises a segregationist...major gaffe (Original Post) 5starlib Sep 2019 OP
lets not do this. Biden is doing well in the polls you should be happy about that JI7 Sep 2019 #1
She attacked Biden for "praising" a segregationist 5starlib Sep 2019 #3
but the attacks on Biden are not working. you should just laugh at those attacking him . JI7 Sep 2019 #4
Fair's fair. AtheistCrusader Sep 2019 #2
So you're criticizing Warren for not knowing something this woman said in her 70's or 80's pnwmom Sep 2019 #5
Fine if she didn't know, but she needs to make a statement about it 5starlib Sep 2019 #6
I don't think she needs to apologize for something this woman said in a very long, obscure interview pnwmom Sep 2019 #10
What an excuse! treestar Sep 2019 #39
She was born in 1880, and there is no evidence that she ever worked with segregationists pnwmom Sep 2019 #41
Now it is a "nuanced" double standard NYMinute Sep 2019 #55
Compare here how well Biden knew he was working DIRECTLY with segregationists mr_lebowski Sep 2019 #78
He was in the senate ... it was his JOB nt NYMinute Sep 2019 #119
No double standard. Blue_true Sep 2019 #141
Sorry as we have seen with the 50 year old issue of bussing ...nothing is too obscure. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #74
This!! Both comments should not be of issue here Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #83
The critical difference is that Biden was fully aware of the segregationist goals of the racists pnwmom Sep 2019 #142
Let me illustrate the difference for you. Politicub Sep 2019 #122
This message was self-deleted by its author True Blue American Sep 2019 #8
Excellent post. Blue_true Sep 2019 #139
Come on, that was a different era True Blue American Sep 2019 #7
The woman was a racist, period. 5starlib Sep 2019 #9
There is a HUGE difference between that woman and Eastland or Talmadge. pnwmom Sep 2019 #11
So you're fine with Warren praising her? 5starlib Sep 2019 #12
I don't think it's fair to hold Warren responsible for having known every utterance pnwmom Sep 2019 #14
lol ok Loki Liesmith Sep 2019 #30
Do you understand that Perkins was born in 1880? Slavery ended in 1865. pnwmom Sep 2019 #38
LOL. treestar Sep 2019 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author NYMinute Sep 2019 #57
The biggest difference is that Biden 100% knew exactly the stances of the men he spoke of mr_lebowski Sep 2019 #81
Yes, but his goal was to find votes for needed legislation Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #87
And considered them the lowest of the low...he didn't praise them...as Warren did...we don't know Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #99
There is a difference between praising active segregationists and Blue_true Sep 2019 #145
+10000 Celerity Sep 2019 #146
But it is OK to hold Biden to such a standard I suppose. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #75
Biden bragged about how he had worked with two people he KNEW were active racists pnwmom Sep 2019 #79
And? I would have worked against bussing too...as the Senate was full of this sort- many were Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #100
So why doesn't Warren apologize and move on? 5starlib Sep 2019 #98
I doubt her racism Mz Pip Sep 2019 #66
And I must point out that Biden said the segregationists were the worst of the worst and yet he Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #76
What legislation, for the good of the people, did VP Biden... tonedevil Sep 2019 #96
I have no idea...and don't care...but you can look it up...very different from today I imagine. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #116
Since the reason given for... tonedevil Sep 2019 #118
Long time ago ...different world...same sort of world Frances Perkins whom Warren praised Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #120
Are you saying... tonedevil Sep 2019 #128
What a ridiculous standard we set if we eliminate people ... LAS14 Sep 2019 #111
Warren praised her for actions that had nothing to do with segregation. Blue_true Sep 2019 #144
I do not think True Blue American Sep 2019 #15
Those Senators weren't members of the other party, so Biden's statement about successfully pnwmom Sep 2019 #16
Those Senators had completely different ideologies and moral views - let's not be cute. Skya Rhen Sep 2019 #67
It was not obtain votes...period! Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #88
No difference? Excuse me but that's silly. yardwork Sep 2019 #26
She was born in 1880. Eastland and Talmadge were born pnwmom Sep 2019 #45
So, given the racist era she was born in makes it highly unlikely that she might have been a racist? Skya Rhen Sep 2019 #70
And Teddy Roosevelt was a eugenics fanatic. Does that make praising the National Parks ehrnst Sep 2019 #110
Her life's work does not say that she was a racist. Blue_true Sep 2019 #143
Not a major gaffe, but a gaffe all the same. Kentonio Sep 2019 #13
Apologize for what? crazytown Sep 2019 #18
As I said its not a major gaffe, but given her comments on Biden and segregationists Kentonio Sep 2019 #19
Please show me any evidence that Perkins ever worked for segregation. pnwmom Sep 2019 #23
Warren said "we should never praise segregationists"... 5starlib Sep 2019 #21
Nope. crazytown Sep 2019 #24
That quote above treestar Sep 2019 #42
That quote is virtually unknown crazytown Sep 2019 #46
Before you quote someone, you've got to check them out treestar Sep 2019 #48
The Francis Perkins foundation was not aware of it, crazytown Sep 2019 #49
Where is the evidence that Perkins, born in 1880, ever worked in the cause of segregation? pnwmom Sep 2019 #25
The Civilian Conservation Corps crazytown Sep 2019 #27
LBJ had racist views. Are we supposed to disown him now? thesquanderer Sep 2019 #60
What? Of course we must... Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #86
How about this...She was a segregationist pure and simple. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #80
Where was that "legacy" ever described other than in the oral history interview that your quote pnwmom Sep 2019 #82
I don't see how that matters really...it was out there and the campaign should not have Warren Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #85
It is on twitter... Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #101
Nonsense. crazytown Sep 2019 #17
She doesn't want black people in schools with white people 5starlib Sep 2019 #20
"I don't give a damn what she did in her life". crazytown Sep 2019 #22
Really? I don't see now you parse this...at least Biden didn't praise the segregationist senators Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #89
Yes! Did not praise! Was obvious that Biden used them as examples of extremists emmaverybo Sep 2019 #124
Exactly...and Kennedy worked with them too...there was no other choice as they Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #125
Perkins is alleged to have said these things one time, late in life. yardwork Sep 2019 #28
Why don't you care that she never worked to promote segregation? That the only evidence pnwmom Sep 2019 #47
That interview worked against desegregation now didn't it? Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #106
No. /nt tonedevil Sep 2019 #108
We can agree to disagree. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #113
In what way... tonedevil Sep 2019 #115
She said it in a public interview during a time when a controversial court decision which she Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #126
A "public interview" that no one... tonedevil Sep 2019 #130
No. An old woman was asked some questions in the midst of hours and hours pnwmom Sep 2019 #131
Teddy Roosevelt was a eugenics enthusiast. Does that mean praising his national parks initiative ehrnst Sep 2019 #109
Of course we ignore the distemper in our own to better focus on that in others. LanternWaste Sep 2019 #61
Chalk and cheese. crazytown Sep 2019 #68
Cheese and stinky cheese...hehe. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #90
K&R stonecutter357 Sep 2019 #29
She was wrong to take the shot at Biden Cosmocat Sep 2019 #31
And Senators Harris & Booker ? crazytown Sep 2019 #35
Obviously...as Sen. Harris has paid a big price for her attacks as has Booker. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #91
What a "hit job" Botany Sep 2019 #32
Interview "isn't really public knowledge" crazytown Sep 2019 #33
She actually should mention this at least now that it has been brought to her attention wiley Sep 2019 #37
this wont make any difference in her support among POC JI7 Sep 2019 #44
Actually, a recent poll had her leading among Latinx voters BlueWI Sep 2019 #138
It is out there...took me less than a minute to find it... Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #92
So now it is ok to post Rupert Murdoch-owned RW trash papers like the Post? Whats next, Fux News? Celerity Sep 2019 #34
Everyone who did a 3rd grade report on Lincoln sure has some apologizing to do. kcr Sep 2019 #64
It is on twitter to from from a dissertation. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #93
Segregationist that needs to be attacked relentlessly. Amimnoch Sep 2019 #36
+ JI7 Sep 2019 #43
Great post!!thx Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #94
Oh yeah this is analogous jcgoldie Sep 2019 #50
Well put Raven123 Sep 2019 #51
Unfortunately, the context and nuance you allow seems candidate-specific. LanternWaste Sep 2019 #62
The situations are not analogous jcgoldie Sep 2019 #65
It was to secure votes!! Politics is a nasty game, you best be willing to get your hands dirty Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #95
Lack of "historical understanding." Wow, apologize for slaveholders much? MadDAsHell Sep 2019 #133
? jcgoldie Sep 2019 #134
Okay, let's be clear frazzled Sep 2019 #52
Nice try BeyondGeography Sep 2019 #56
I don't think it really matters frazzled Sep 2019 #58
K&R nt NYMinute Sep 2019 #53
Desperate nonsense from the NYPOST... GeorgeGist Sep 2019 #54
Which is exactly where all these microscopic gaffe alerts go . . . peggysue2 Sep 2019 #59
This one is really easy. kcr Sep 2019 #63
+ a million! BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #72
No kidding. n/t demmiblue Sep 2019 #77
Gaffes Tend To Reveal Underlying Thinking, What Does This Reveal About Warren? DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #69
Biden did not incarcerate Black men...and no one approves of bussing including Harris... Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #104
Biden Bragged That The Bill Got 60 Death Penalties And 125,000 New Prison Cells DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #136
It also had the violence agains women bill and gun background checks...it applied to Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #137
Other than one obscure quote BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #71
This is disqualifying...hehe Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #73
Better hope no one mentions Woodrow Wilson Jose Garcia Sep 2019 #84
Oh FFS. Such desperation Bradshaw3 Sep 2019 #97
False equivalence. Sorry. Working directly KPN Sep 2019 #102
A lot of people equate any praise of Margaret Sangers fight for female controlled contraception ehrnst Sep 2019 #103
And the OP is a Biden supporter. Surprise, surprise. elocs Sep 2019 #105
Biden apologists in full panic mode over his tiny, shriveled crowd size comparison with Liz Baclava Sep 2019 #117
+1,000 n/t MarcA Sep 2019 #132
Really? The NY Post is considered a source for political analysis now? ehrnst Sep 2019 #107
Groan... tit for tat mudslinging lambchopp59 Sep 2019 #112
Classic and not a bit surprising. People in glass houses and stones and all that. MadDAsHell Sep 2019 #114
Well stated. nt LAS14 Sep 2019 #123
What a whiff of desperation. Politicub Sep 2019 #121
Thomas jefferson Layzeebeaver Sep 2019 #127
Thanks for the short, easy to remember answer to this sort of nonsense. nt LAS14 Sep 2019 #129
If true, I wonder if we'll ever hear a peep about this on MSNBC. They dragged poor Joe's name... Tarheel_Dem Sep 2019 #135
If what is true? tonedevil Sep 2019 #140
 

JI7

(89,182 posts)
1. lets not do this. Biden is doing well in the polls you should be happy about that
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:24 AM
Sep 2019

and warren is one of the candidates who hasn't been personally attacking others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
3. She attacked Biden for "praising" a segregationist
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:28 AM
Sep 2019

Though he never really praised them. She did the same thing. Biden was crucified on this very forum for doing much less.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,182 posts)
4. but the attacks on Biden are not working. you should just laugh at those attacking him .
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:30 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
2. Fair's fair.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:28 AM
Sep 2019

I would note, it's difficult to reference most people in American history, in a positive light, given the prevalence of racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc. Any given historical person could be an ally on one issue (like labor) and terrible on another (like racism).

But yeah, if you're going to hold an opponent to a standard, you should also meet the standard. I hope she addresses this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
5. So you're criticizing Warren for not knowing something this woman said in her 70's or 80's
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:32 AM
Sep 2019

that was "buried in an extremely long academic oral history interview," and not even the center devoted to her knew about?

Warren praised a specific achievement in workers' rights that had nothing to do with the obscure statement the woman made decades later.

“Regarding Warren’s use of Perkins in her speech tonight: I just want to note that this is something Perkins said near the end of her life, was buried in an extremely long academic oral history interview, and isn’t really public knowledge,” White wrote.

Indeed, researchers at the Frances Perkins Center were unfamiliar with the material.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
6. Fine if she didn't know, but she needs to make a statement about it
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:35 AM
Sep 2019

Her campaign has gone crickets on the matter. She needs to just be upfront and apologize for not knowing. That's all. Also, she needs to make sure she doesn't praise that woman again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
10. I don't think she needs to apologize for something this woman said in a very long, obscure interview
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:05 AM
Sep 2019

toward the end of her life, that almost no one knew about and that had nothing to do with the accomplishment Warren praised her for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
39. What an excuse!
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:43 AM
Sep 2019

The double standard is astounding.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
41. She was born in 1880, and there is no evidence that she ever worked with segregationists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:44 AM
Sep 2019

that I have seen. Have you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
55. Now it is a "nuanced" double standard
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:59 AM
Sep 2019

She now had to work with segregationists -- not just have pro-segregation opinions and writings!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
78. Compare here how well Biden knew he was working DIRECTLY with segregationists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:08 PM
Sep 2019

AT THE F****** TIME they were segregationists ...

Versus the expectation that Warren should know everything some historical figure, who she never met, let alone worked with ... EVER said ... in her entire lifetime.

This has got to be a joke.



To be clear, I also didn't have any big issue w/what Biden said in the first place ... but these two things are really not comparable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
119. He was in the senate ... it was his JOB nt
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:34 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
141. No double standard.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:11 PM
Sep 2019

It is one thing to praise timeframe contributions of a person that would not have been happy to go to school with Blacks. It is another to say you actively worked with segregationists, as Biden did (though a close reading would show that he worked with them on General legistlation, except for his busing vote with them).

But Senator Warren should come out and make a simple statement about the controversy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
74. Sorry as we have seen with the 50 year old issue of bussing ...nothing is too obscure.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:01 PM
Sep 2019

I don't give a damn about this but it shows that the attacks on Biden are unfair.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
83. This!! Both comments should not be of issue here
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:18 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
142. The critical difference is that Biden was fully aware of the segregationist goals of the racists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:20 PM
Sep 2019

he worked with, and he worked with them to end federally required busing for desegregation.

Warren didn't do anything remotely comparable to that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
122. Let me illustrate the difference for you.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:52 PM
Sep 2019

Biden: “I was able to get along with segregationists and they didn’t even call me boy.”

Warren: “Shortly after the turn of the 19th century, there once was a factory fire that spawned a worker’s rights activist.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
139. Excellent post.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:05 PM
Sep 2019

Warren indeed praised the woman for her actions around worker rights and safety and for Social Security origination. She was not praising a statement the lady made 20+ years later. Biden said that he WORKED with segregationalists on legistlation, of course he was likely saying legistlation that helped everyone, including Blacks that the seggies would, on their own, not helped.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
7. Come on, that was a different era
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:38 AM
Sep 2019

And the woman worked for civil rights! No one is perfect and this is just another tilting at Windmills when we should be backing each other.

And on this board not speak harshly of others. I am as guilty as everyone but trying to tear down a front runner who had 20,000 people at her rally with people waiting for hours for a selfie with Warren.

You ever see that at a Trump rally? He does not even shake hands with those attending his rallies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
9. The woman was a racist, period.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:50 AM
Sep 2019

She was no different than Sen Eastland or Talmadge. And she died in 1965. So it's not like we're talking about a centuary ago.

So you're fine with Warren to continue to heap praise on her in future speeches now that her campaign is aware?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
11. There is a HUGE difference between that woman and Eastland or Talmadge.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:08 AM
Sep 2019

The men, as Senators, publicly expressed racist views; and yet some progressives bragged about working with them, on anti-busing legislation.

Warren, OTOH, praised this woman for a specific accomplishment in workers rights that had nothing to do with the racist statements the woman made decades later.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
12. So you're fine with Warren praising her?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:14 AM
Sep 2019

and in the future? If Joe Biden would've praised her, the media and this place would've been at Defcon 4

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
14. I don't think it's fair to hold Warren responsible for having known every utterance
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:28 AM
Sep 2019

this woman made in her long life, including things even only an oral historian knew before now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
38. Do you understand that Perkins was born in 1880? Slavery ended in 1865.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:42 AM
Sep 2019

And, unlike some of our Democrats in Congress, there is no evidence she ever worked with segregationists.

But, sure, hold her to today's standards. That makes so much sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to pnwmom (Reply #38)

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
81. The biggest difference is that Biden 100% knew exactly the stances of the men he spoke of
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:15 PM
Sep 2019

And there's really no reason to expect that Warren would've known some utterly obscure fact about some historical figure she'd never met or worked with.

They're not comparable ... and I have no problem with what Biden said, because I knew what I meant.

But I have negative-infinity level of 'caring' about this so-called 'gaffe' by Warren.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
87. Yes, but his goal was to find votes for needed legislation
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:26 PM
Sep 2019

The next dem president better damn well be ready to slough thru mud and knee deep shit if needed to obtain those 1-2 gop votes that millions of Americans might be relying on.

It’s called politics..it’s a nasty game. Sitting on the high fence of purity just because you don’t want to get your hands dirty doesn’t work!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
99. And considered them the lowest of the low...he didn't praise them...as Warren did...we don't know
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:42 PM
Sep 2019

what Warren knew anyway.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
145. There is a difference between praising active segregationists and
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:44 PM
Sep 2019

praising a woman for her accomplishments 20+ years before she made a statement about a new societal change that she was not fund of.

Using your standard, every great White American prior to today should be shunned if they make clueless statements about racial issues long after the accomplishments that we praise them for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
75. But it is OK to hold Biden to such a standard I suppose.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:02 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
79. Biden bragged about how he had worked with two people he KNEW were active racists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:10 PM
Sep 2019

to end federally mandated busing for school desegregation.

How is that the same as praising the accomplishments of a woman born in 1880 who had worked for decades for workers rights, and who had no record of ever taking any segregationist positions in correction with her work? Whose only flaw in her public record seems to be contained in an an obscure oral history at the end of her life?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
100. And? I would have worked against bussing too...as the Senate was full of this sort- many were
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:46 PM
Sep 2019

Democrats by the way and they handed out committee assignments you know. However, this was an example of working wth the worst of the worst...he didn't praise them as Warren did.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
98. So why doesn't Warren apologize and move on?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:37 PM
Sep 2019

Are you fine with her to continue to heap praise on this woman now that this info is out there?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mz Pip

(27,404 posts)
66. I doubt her racism
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:34 AM
Sep 2019

was what Warren was referring to.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
76. And I must point out that Biden said the segregationists were the worst of the worst and yet he
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:03 PM
Sep 2019

worked with them for the good of the people...Warren was praising this apparently racist woman...in my eyes that is worse.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
96. What legislation, for the good of the people, did VP Biden...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:33 PM
Sep 2019

work on with Senator Eastland and Senator Talmadge?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
116. I have no idea...and don't care...but you can look it up...very different from today I imagine.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:18 PM
Sep 2019

He is another Senator who worked with Eastland and became friends...Yes, the lion of the Senate. He explains it better than I do and Biden as well.

“How could I seek guidance, or cooperate in any way, with a proponent of segregation?” Kennedy would ask decades later in his own memoir, True Compass. “My decision regarding Eastland—in fact, my abiding impulse to reach across lines of division during my career—took strength from the concluding phase of Lincoln’s first inaugural address, on the eve of the civil war. I decided to put faith in ‘the better angels of our nature.’ I worked with James Eastland; in fact, the two of us became friends. Then and always, I would work with anyone whose philosophies differed from mine as long as the issue at hand promoted the welfare of the people, and I would continue to await those better angels, and to remain confident in ultimate justice.” (Of course, Kennedy and Eastland had many widely divergent ideas about just what constituted the “welfare of the people.”)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
118. Since the reason given for...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:29 PM
Sep 2019

Biden working with segregationists was to get legislation passed I would think the specific legislation would be an important element in determing the effectiveness of that effort. I understand if you have no idea what Biden worked on at that time details don't seem to interest you much.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
120. Long time ago ...different world...same sort of world Frances Perkins whom Warren praised
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:44 PM
Sep 2019

inhabited...I bring it up because of the ridiculous assault on Biden...but he handed out committe assignments as well...so consider that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
128. Are you saying...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 02:26 PM
Sep 2019

despite her activisim around the Triangle Shirt Factory Fire, her being the first woman to hold a Presidential cabinet, and her drafting the Social Security Act, that Francis Perkins is not praiseworthy?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LAS14

(13,749 posts)
111. What a ridiculous standard we set if we eliminate people ...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:05 PM
Sep 2019

... from our admiration because they lived in the time they lived in.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
144. Warren praised her for actions that had nothing to do with segregation.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:39 PM
Sep 2019

Biden praised active segregationists.

Now;

I think what Joe meant was that despite not caring for the mens' views on Blacks, he could work with them on legistlation that helped everyone. I am ok with what Joe felt in his heart.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
15. I do not think
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:41 AM
Sep 2019

Brag is the right word. I heard Biden say,” He was able to work with them.”We should understand that working with the other party means compromise and if you are incapable of doing that nothing is done.

Mitch McConnell is a perfect example of how the Senate does not work. Until we clean house of him and his co- horts like Lindsey Graham nothing will be done except ram rodding right wing Judges through to destroy more progress!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
16. Those Senators weren't members of the other party, so Biden's statement about successfully
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:43 AM
Sep 2019

working across the aisle with them made little sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skya Rhen

(2,701 posts)
67. Those Senators had completely different ideologies and moral views - let's not be cute.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:38 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
88. It was not obtain votes...period!
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:27 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yardwork

(61,418 posts)
26. No difference? Excuse me but that's silly.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:41 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
45. She was born in 1880. Eastland and Talmadge were born
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:48 AM
Sep 2019

24 and 33 years later. And they both worked actively on segregationist issues. She did not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skya Rhen

(2,701 posts)
70. So, given the racist era she was born in makes it highly unlikely that she might have been a racist?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:43 AM
Sep 2019

Warren should have known better.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
110. And Teddy Roosevelt was a eugenics fanatic. Does that make praising the National Parks
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:58 PM
Sep 2019

the same as heaping praise on eugenics?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
143. Her life's work does not say that she was a racist.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:21 PM
Sep 2019

Her statement, if I read correctly was "We should be nice to Blacks, but we shouldn't have to go to school with them".

That statement can be interpreted in several ways.

The first is that Blacks should have full societal rights as far as housing, jobs, school went, but Whites should have their own schools. You can call her segregationists if you want, but she was not the violent lynching type that Biden said he worked with.

Another interpretation would be "Give Blacks enough to keep them happy, but not what Whites get. Keep them out of our schools". That would be racist (including segregationist).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
13. Not a major gaffe, but a gaffe all the same.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:23 AM
Sep 2019

She should just apologize, explain she hadn't heard the later comments, and move on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
18. Apologize for what?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:02 AM
Sep 2019

Praising the achievements of Secretary Perkins during FDR' administration?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
19. As I said its not a major gaffe, but given her comments on Biden and segregationists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:14 AM
Sep 2019

She can't praise a segregationist herself and then just pretend it didn't happen. Given the circumstances it was clearly just a small error based on not being aware of Perkins later beliefs, so she should just come out and clear up the misunderstanding and move on.

I like Elizabeth Warren a lot, she's certainly my second choice after Bernie, and I don't want small missteps like this one to balloon into something that takes the focus off her campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
23. Please show me any evidence that Perkins ever worked for segregation.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:27 AM
Sep 2019

Other than those few opinions expressed in an extremely long oral history interview toward the end of her life, I can't see anything connecting her with segregationist work at all -- unlike Senators Eastland and Talmadge, who helped push anti-busing bills through Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
21. Warren said "we should never praise segregationists"...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:17 AM
Sep 2019

So is Perkins not one?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
24. Nope.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:28 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:03 AM - Edit history (1)

She may have (and clearly did) expressed deeply racist views in an obscure interview, but does not have a career dedicated to protecting and maintaining the Souths legal segregation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
42. That quote above
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:44 AM
Sep 2019

she specifically said whites should not go to school with blacks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
46. That quote is virtually unknown
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:49 AM
Sep 2019
something Perkins said near the end of her life ... buried in an extremely long academic oral history interview




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
48. Before you quote someone, you've got to check them out
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:51 AM
Sep 2019

It is public knowledge - enough for someone to have figured it out after EW quoted her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
49. The Francis Perkins foundation was not aware of it,
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:55 AM
Sep 2019

when questioned by the NY Post.

Google Perkins, and racist terms ... there's nothing there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. Where is the evidence that Perkins, born in 1880, ever worked in the cause of segregation?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:30 AM
Sep 2019

Or even spoke publicly about the topic? She was a product of her time. Other than some opinions in an oral history interview, decades after the work she was noted for, what evidence do you have?

Like everyone else, Perkins was a flawed human being. But she accomplished a great deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins

Frances Perkins (born Fannie Coralie Perkins; April 10, 1880[1][2] – May 14, 1965) was an American sociologist and workers-rights advocate who served as the U.S. Secretary of Labor from 1933 to 1945, the longest serving in that position, and the first woman appointed to the U.S. Cabinet. As a loyal supporter of her friend, Franklin D. Roosevelt, she helped pull the labor movement into the New Deal coalition. She and Interior Secretary Harold L. Ickes were the only original members of the Roosevelt cabinet to remain in office for his entire presidency.

During her term as Secretary of Labor, Perkins executed many aspects of the New Deal, including the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Public Works Administration and its successor the Federal Works Agency, and the labor portion of the National Industrial Recovery Act. With the Social Security Act she established unemployment benefits, pensions for the many uncovered elderly Americans, and welfare for the poorest Americans. She pushed to reduce workplace accidents and helped craft laws against child labor. Through the Fair Labor Standards Act, she established the first minimum wage and overtime laws for American workers, and defined the standard forty-hour work week. She formed governmental policy for working with labor unions and helped to alleviate strikes by way of the United States Conciliation Service. Perkins dealt with many labor questions during World War II, when skilled labor was vital and women were moving into formerly male jobs.[3]

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
27. The Civilian Conservation Corps
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:45 AM
Sep 2019
The CCC represented the first time in U.S. history that unemployed blacks had been given federal assistance. Frances Perkins played an important role in making it happen. The African American newspaper, Chicago Defender, reported in late April 1933 that the Urban League’s Executive Secretary Eugene Kinckle and the League’s Director of Industrial Relations T. Arnold Hill had met with Perkins in Washington DC to present evidence that blacks had encountered repeated acts of racial discrimination in the doling out of New Deal relief benefits. They sought to gain assurances that African Americans would not be discriminated against in New Deal programming.

The Urban League’s representatives, according to the Defender minced few words. They simply demanded “unprejudiced, indiscriminate consideration of race workers and urged proper representation of our people by official appointments to staff positions.” Perkins specifically assured Jones and Hill that the reforestation law could not discriminate because of race, color, or creed and she pledged to pass the word to CCC recruiters.
The CCC represented the first time in U.S. history that unemployed.

In the end, the CCC employed a percentage of black workers commensurate to the overall African American population. By late summer, the Chicago Defender was even more generous in its praise of the Secretary of Labor. “You ought to be thankful to President Delano Roosevelt for appointing Mrs. Frances Perkins as his Secretary of Labor,” the paper editorialized to its black readership on August 5. ... Perkins, in short, had given blacks as well as whites “a chance for a new deal.” For the first time, the black community had an advocate in the cabinet: “She is for you, she stands on your issues, and by the same token you ought to be for her.


https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/45622/FrenchGhoMacFra.pdf
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
60. LBJ had racist views. Are we supposed to disown him now?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:47 AM
Sep 2019

People are products of their time... and they can do good even when they hold some terrible personal beliefs.

If I have any critique of Warren here, it's not for praising this woman, it's for her comment about about never celebrating a segregationist (and the associated implied criticism of Biden). We can praise Thomas Jefferson for the good he did, even while recognizing that he held slaves. The world is complicated.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
86. What? Of course we must...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:23 PM
Sep 2019
...just ask Biden and those who attacked him...LBJ however was not a fan of segregation as Frances Perkins was...she actually said white children should not be forced go to school with Black children.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
80. How about this...She was a segregationist pure and simple.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:11 PM
Sep 2019

"But Perkins had a less admirable and less well known legacy later in life — as a critic of the Brown vs. Board of Education Supreme Court decision that outlawed segregation in public schools.

Americans, she said at the time of the 1954 decision, “should be nice to Negroes,” but not necessarily have to go to school with them.

And that left the Massachusetts Democratic senator in a position that her staff didn’t want to talk about following her own harsh criticism of fellow presidential candidate Joe Biden over his tone-deaf comments about being pals with a couple of segregationist southern senators.."“, it’s not overdue. And when the interviewer said it was 'overdue', MS. Perkins replied..."No, It is not overdue. It’s just begun to loom up as due — as nearly due. No wait! Nobody ever heard that segregation was wrong until about five years ago. I never heard such a thing. I never heard such a thing,” Perkins said".

I am so sorry but Frances Perkins does not pass our current purity test...do many good things but have one bad idea or interview and out she goes as a heroine () . Will Warren apologize as she asked Biden to do?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
82. Where was that "legacy" ever described other than in the oral history interview that your quote
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:16 PM
Sep 2019

and all the accounts criticizing Perkins recently have referred to? Do you have a single piece of evidence that she ever worked for segregation or publicly advocated for segregation other than the repeated references to that single interview near the end of her life?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
85. I don't see how that matters really...it was out there and the campaign should not have Warren
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:21 PM
Sep 2019

praising segregationists...something Biden didn't do...he said the segregationist senators were the worst of the worst (deplorables) but he worked with them to get stuff done for the American people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
17. Nonsense.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 04:53 AM
Sep 2019

Worse than pathetic deflection. Frances Perkins' achievements are rightly, and widely celebrated. Big Jim Eastland is celebrated by virtually no-one. What a pathetic attempt to defect attention from the poor campaign by a front runner who puts his foot in his mouth every single week.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

5starlib

(191 posts)
20. She doesn't want black people in schools with white people
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:15 AM
Sep 2019

I don't give a damn what she did in her life. As a black man, this is offensive. I don't care what decade this was in. To praise this woman is wrong. And to continue to do so would be a smack in the mouth to African-Americans.

Isn't this the same reason why we're fighting to bring down confederate statues? Our society shouldn't be giving praises to people with such abhorrent views.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
22. "I don't give a damn what she did in her life".
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:21 AM
Sep 2019

Then we are not even on the same page.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
89. Really? I don't see now you parse this...at least Biden didn't praise the segregationist senators
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:28 PM
Sep 2019

but used them as an example of the worst of the worst...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
124. Yes! Did not praise! Was obvious that Biden used them as examples of extremists
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:54 PM
Sep 2019

with even repugnant agendas one might have to deal with in order to “get the job done.” His “praise” was for getting that job done, not for the extremists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
125. Exactly...and Kennedy worked with them too...there was no other choice as they
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:58 PM
Sep 2019

handed out committee assigments...I can only imgine the furor if Biden had praised a segregationist among those who support other caniddates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yardwork

(61,418 posts)
28. Perkins is alleged to have said these things one time, late in life.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:45 AM
Sep 2019

How do you know this story is even true? And if it is, maybe she had dementia. My mother is in her 80s and is in early dementia. She gets confused. Is her confusion now supposed to represent her entire life, negate all her accomplishments? How cruel would that be?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
47. Why don't you care that she never worked to promote segregation? That the only evidence
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:50 AM
Sep 2019

of her views was a single oral history interview?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
106. That interview worked against desegregation now didn't it?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:54 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
113. We can agree to disagree.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:07 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
115. In what way...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:14 PM
Sep 2019

do you construe a single qoute as working for something?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
126. She said it in a public interview during a time when a controversial court decision which she
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 02:08 PM
Sep 2019

disagree with had come done...while she gave lip service to desegregationi of Roosevelt era programs like the CCC, she did not get any of that done. And clearly, she did not support desegregation at least in her later years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
130. A "public interview" that no one...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 02:28 PM
Sep 2019

heard of before yesterday. I know you don't do details, but was the interview ever even published? Do you know who the interviewer was?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
131. No. An old woman was asked some questions in the midst of hours and hours
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 03:11 PM
Sep 2019

of an oral history interview. She wasn't looking for publicity --- the interviewer came to her and she answered his questions. And this was a couple paragraphs cherry-picked out of many hours of talking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
109. Teddy Roosevelt was a eugenics enthusiast. Does that mean praising his national parks initiative
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:56 PM
Sep 2019

will be a "racist gaffe" as well?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
61. Of course we ignore the distemper in our own to better focus on that in others.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:05 AM
Sep 2019

"What a pathetic attempt to defect attention from the second-tier campaign..."

(six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each as without as the other)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
68. Chalk and cheese.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:41 AM
Sep 2019

Democrats revere the New Deal, and disown the Dixiecrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
90. Cheese and stinky cheese...hehe.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:28 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
31. She was wrong to take the shot at Biden
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:01 AM
Sep 2019

As someone who likes EW a good bit, would have said that at the time.

This stuff is out of control.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
35. And Senators Harris & Booker ?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:20 AM
Sep 2019

Should they have kept their peace/piece as well?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
91. Obviously...as Sen. Harris has paid a big price for her attacks as has Booker.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:29 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Botany

(70,291 posts)
32. What a "hit job"
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:04 AM
Sep 2019

n/t

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
33. Interview "isn't really public knowledge"
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:13 AM
Sep 2019

What does Warren have to apologize about, again?



Dragging through the muck the woman responsible for social security, unemployment insurance, the minimum wage, the weekend and banning child labour is counterproductive, to say the least.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

wiley

(2,921 posts)
37. She actually should mention this at least now that it has been brought to her attention
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:35 AM
Sep 2019

It would make it not a big deal. I had no idea Perkins said this, but why not educate the public? She's not doing especially well with people of color. at the moment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JI7

(89,182 posts)
44. this wont make any difference in her support among POC
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:46 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
138. Actually, a recent poll had her leading among Latinx voters
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:20 PM
Sep 2019

and she has reached 10% among black voters, which is about a tripling of support.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
92. It is out there...took me less than a minute to find it...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:30 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,673 posts)
34. So now it is ok to post Rupert Murdoch-owned RW trash papers like the Post? Whats next, Fux News?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:19 AM
Sep 2019

Also Warren never worked with Perkins to pass and/or try to pass racist-based legislation like Biden did with the segregationist Senators. Under this attempt to quash speech due to historical figures' sometimes repugnant views, a vast majority of praise for people from the 1700's, 1800's, even into the first half 1900's (to a lesser degree) is never going to be allowed. Hell, Lincoln was a racist. Obviously 95% plus of the 'Founding Fathers' were, etc etc etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
64. Everyone who did a 3rd grade report on Lincoln sure has some apologizing to do.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:25 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously, this attack on Warren is straight out of the GOP playbook. To see DUers stoop this low is beyond sad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
93. It is on twitter to from from a dissertation.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:31 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
36. Segregationist that needs to be attacked relentlessly.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:31 AM
Sep 2019


Supposedly hates “illegals” yet focuses on keeping only 1 race out of America despite numbers being here from all over the world.

Threw paper towels and disparaging remarks at “brown people” whom he didn’t even seem to know or acknowledge as Americans after it had been devastated by a hurricane, then moved every resource possible and imaginable to assist the Florida panhandle and Texas, where he has large numbers of his constituents when they got hit with lessor effect.

Just yesterday disparaged the homeless for very presence in “great” areas. What race is it again that is grossly disproportionately afflicted with homelessness again?

Has shifted federal funding away from public schools with more effect on schools with minority majorities into already better funded and apportioned, and more white private schools.

Biden is not a racist or pro segregationist.
Warren is not a racist or pro segregationist.
Sanders is not a racist or pro segregationist.
None of our candidates are pro segregationist!!

These attacks on each other from each others camps? This shit’s going to help put a REAL LIVING president whose very actions evidence segregationist principles back into office for another 4 years if we don’t get our collective heads out of our posteriors and focus on the real problem.. it’s in the Whitehouse right now by the way.

I am appreciative of the point you are trying to drive home, it’s not lost on me, but damn these things are disheartening to say the least.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
50. Oh yeah this is analogous
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:33 AM
Sep 2019

Praising a historical figure who was a famous worker's rights advocate,the 1st woman cabinet member, and gets credited for implementing significant parts of the FDR's New Deal despite the fact that she commented on the Brown vs Board decision in a racist way is just like bragging about working personally with segregationists in Congress. Right. You are talking about a conversation about a person from a different historical era and comparing that to a discussion of his own political career that Joe Biden used to illustrate his history of working across the aisle.

How about this:
"As one of our Founding Fathers, the person who drafted our Declaration of Independence, somebody who not only was an extraordinary political leader but also one of our great scientific and cultural leaders, Thomas Jefferson represents what’s best in America."

That's Barack Obama talking about Thomas Jefferson who owned slaves.

The article you present shows a lack of historical understanding. That or its just disingenuous.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
62. Unfortunately, the context and nuance you allow seems candidate-specific.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:07 AM
Sep 2019

A consistency of context dramatically denied to the front-runner and leader.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
65. The situations are not analogous
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:31 AM
Sep 2019

Bragging about working across the aisle with segregationists is not remotely the same as recognizing the achievements of flawed historical figures.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
95. It was to secure votes!! Politics is a nasty game, you best be willing to get your hands dirty
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:33 PM
Sep 2019

If your goal is to pass legislation

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
133. Lack of "historical understanding." Wow, apologize for slaveholders much?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:59 PM
Sep 2019

I'm ready for your lecture on how the Civil War wasn't REALLY about slavery, it was about states' rights!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
134. ?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:33 PM
Sep 2019

The Civil War was about slavery and my comment had nothing to do with apologizing for slaveholders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
52. Okay, let's be clear
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:52 AM
Sep 2019

When Joe Biden was working with segregationist senators like Eastland in the 1970s to get legislation passed, Elizabeth Warren was a Republican. Having come of voting age in 1970, she would presumably have cast a vote for Richard Nixon, who famously made racist comments, conducted a dog whistle racist campaign in the South, and advocated theories that equated race with IQ. And she would have presumably voted for Gerald Ford (who probably was not so racist), Ronald Reagan, who compared Africans to monkeys, and George HW Bush, with his Willie Horton ad.

Whether she herself held these views (and it’s quite possible she did not), by affiliating herself with the Republican Party until the mid 1990s, she was enabling senators and presidents to promote racist policies.

So can we forget the gaffes and call it even?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
56. Nice try
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:00 AM
Sep 2019

Written in 1975:

Elizabeth Warren's first law review article blasted an anti-busing court ruling

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/06/politics/elizabeth-warren-busing-desegregation-kfile/index.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
58. I don't think it really matters
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:24 AM
Sep 2019

In this context. When you are a Republican until 1996, you are in part responsible for Republican initiatives and legislation and rhetoric.

It’s like the argument made many times here regarding Trump voters: sure, they may not all be bigots themselves, but by supporting Trump they are guilty of enabling bigotry. You can’t have it both ways.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

GeorgeGist

(25,294 posts)
54. Desperate nonsense from the NYPOST...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:57 AM
Sep 2019

Surprised you didn't notice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
59. Which is exactly where all these microscopic gaffe alerts go . . .
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:24 AM
Sep 2019

into tit-for-tat finger-pointing over a name mentioned, a detail skewed, a phrase that produces faux outrage.

Can we now admit this is all dumb and dumber, that the constant attacks on Biden over nothingburgers simply weakens our hand for 2020? Otherwise, be prepared to see more like this: continuous what's-good-for-the-goose moments.

Dumb and self-defeating. In fact, it reminds me of juvenile school yard taunting.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
63. This one is really easy.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:14 AM
Sep 2019

The two things are in no way equal to anyone with half a brain and an ounce of knowledge of any history and the OP should be ashamed of themselves, and also it's the New York Post.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
72. + a million!
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:57 AM
Sep 2019

Shame on all those who are jumping on this in an effort to smear Elizabeth Warren!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

demmiblue

(36,751 posts)
77. No kidding. n/t
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:03 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DrFunkenstein

(8,745 posts)
69. Gaffes Tend To Reveal Underlying Thinking, What Does This Reveal About Warren?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:42 AM
Sep 2019

Biden's race gaffes stuck because of policy decisions that he made involving incarcerating Black men, opposition to busing, and his defense of predatory credit lenders who targeted minorities (for starters).

Biden's gaffes about Iraq stick because he used his position of leadership to disallow voices of dissent before the invasion to be heard by the Senate as he handed the keys to George W. Bush.

Biden went out of his way to specifically choose two prominent segregationists to make a point about working with them as a sign of his ability to work across the aisle.

What does this gaffe reveal about Warren?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
104. Biden did not incarcerate Black men...and no one approves of bussing including Harris...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:53 PM
Sep 2019

You should not slander our likely nominee...fact is Warren praised a woman who supported segregation. And none of what you post is true or relevant.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DrFunkenstein

(8,745 posts)
136. Biden Bragged That The Bill Got 60 Death Penalties And 125,000 New Prison Cells
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:51 PM
Sep 2019

Biden reveled in the politics of the 1994 law, bragging after it passed that “the liberal wing of the Democratic Party” was now for “60 new death penalties,” “70 enhanced penalties,” “100,000 cops,” and “125,000 new state prison cells.”

The law imposed tougher prison sentences at the federal level and encouraged states to do the same. It provided funds for states to build more prisons, aimed to fund 100,000 more cops, and backed grant programs that encouraged police officers to carry out more drug-related arrests — an escalation of the war on drugs.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/20/18677998/joe-biden-1994-crime-bill-law-mass-incarceration

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
137. It also had the violence agains women bill and gun background checks...it applied to
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:50 PM
Sep 2019

federal crimes to and was supposed to halt the increased crime of the day...but...it didn't what you said per your own article...


"Yet evaluations of the 1994 crime law suggest these state-level provisions didn’t really work out. The 1994 law led only a few states to adopt harsher criminal justice policies, and the tougher policies the 1994 law encouraged weren’t the only measures that fueled mass incarceration overall.

A 1998 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), for which federal investigators talked to state officials about whether the 1994 law influenced state policies, noted that just four states adopted “truth in sentencing” laws (TIS) solely as a response to the 1994 law:

At the time of our review, based upon determinations made by DOJ, 27 states had TIS laws that met the requirements for receiving federal TIS grants. For each of these 27 states, we contacted state officials to determine whether the availability of such grants was a factor in the respective state’s decision to enact a TIS law. Based on the responses to our telephone survey, the states can be grouped into three categories—TIS grants not a factor (12 states), TIS grants a partial factor (11 states), and TIS grants a key factor (4 states)".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
71. Other than one obscure quote
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:55 AM
Sep 2019

towards the end of her life, please provide examples of how Frances Perkins advocated segregationist policies during her life.

Per this article, it appears that your headline is wildly inaccurate. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41841218?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Since when is the NYPost a reliable source of information?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,355 posts)
73. This is disqualifying...hehe
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:59 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jose Garcia

(2,552 posts)
84. Better hope no one mentions Woodrow Wilson
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:19 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,455 posts)
97. Oh FFS. Such desperation
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:37 PM
Sep 2019

Some Biden supporters are becoming cartoonish. She WASN'T praising her for being a segregationist. How ignorant. She was praising her work on behalf of labor and women. And it was a century ago. It's not the same as Biden praising senators who were FIRST AND FOREMOST segregationists while they were in the senate together.

These attempts at false equivalency by Biden supporters not only reveal a desperation at how the race is going but just how low they will go in attempts to save a candidate they know deep down is flawed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
102. False equivalence. Sorry. Working directly
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:52 PM
Sep 2019

with known segregationists (and actually saying so) is light years from not knowing what someone once said 140 years ago that, really, no one else really knew either.

Tit for tat is not justified here. This is just a low blow attack.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
103. A lot of people equate any praise of Margaret Sangers fight for female controlled contraception
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:53 PM
Sep 2019

with praise for eugenics, and they would be wrong as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,476 posts)
105. And the OP is a Biden supporter. Surprise, surprise.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:54 PM
Sep 2019

Does Warren make gaffes with regularity?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
117. Biden apologists in full panic mode over his tiny, shriveled crowd size comparison with Liz
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:23 PM
Sep 2019

I expect more attacks as his crowds shrink

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
107. Really? The NY Post is considered a source for political analysis now?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 12:54 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lambchopp59

(2,809 posts)
112. Groan... tit for tat mudslinging
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:06 PM
Sep 2019

Must we resort to Faux-Noise petty tidbit tactics between us here at DU rather than posting, fortifying our choice candidate's positive attributes?
I echo the first reply here: lets not do this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
114. Classic and not a bit surprising. People in glass houses and stones and all that.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:10 PM
Sep 2019

Unfortunately, as a party this is the standard we have set. 100% idealogical perfection from womb to grave or you will be CRUCIFIED. And you better hope anyone you've associated with, or even made eye contact with during your lifetime, has lived the same.

Though it's hard for me to even complain about it because I know we're simply lying in the bed we made. It'd actually be kind of funny if it wasn't so 1984-ish.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
121. What a whiff of desperation.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 01:46 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Layzeebeaver

(1,576 posts)
127. Thomas jefferson
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 02:16 PM
Sep 2019

Slave owner.

We quote him all the time.

Nuff said.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LAS14

(13,749 posts)
129. Thanks for the short, easy to remember answer to this sort of nonsense. nt
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 02:27 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tarheel_Dem

(31,211 posts)
135. If true, I wonder if we'll ever hear a peep about this on MSNBC. They dragged poor Joe's name...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:44 PM
Sep 2019

through the mud. I understand what Warren was attempting to do, and I don't necessarily agree that she should be condemned for trying to make a valid point, but fair is fair.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
140. If what is true?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:10 PM
Sep 2019

I wasn't in attendance, but it seems undisputed that Senator Warren invoked Frances Perkins in her speech Tuesday evening. Ms. Perkins was instrumental in getting work safety legislation enacted following her witnessing the Triangle Shirt Factory Fire. She was also the first woman in a Presidential cabinet, but the activism was apparently what Warren concentrated on. A bit of reading about Perkins and her lifetime achievements convinced me she was a very praiseworthy individual.
Nikki Schwab wrote an article that was printed in the New York Post. In that article Ms. Schwab characterized Perkins as a segregationist based on comments Perkins made in an interview when she was in her 80s. In the interview Perkins expressed her displeasure with the SCOTUS decision on Brown v The Board of Education and indicated she thought anti-segregation was something that had been forced on people. The remarks are certainly disturbing and it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Perkins said them. Schwab pulled the remarks from a dissertation by an assistant professor at Syracuse University, Steven White. I don't believe the interview was ever published so it really isn't the case that Perkins was in any practical way a segregationist even though she likely accepted the notion that non-white people were inferior.
I'm not inclinded to think that Warren should stop talking about Frances Perkins in her speeches she is a very inspiring individual.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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