Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumElizabeth Warren praises a segregationist...major gaffe
But Perkins had a less admirable and less well known legacy later in life as a critic of the Brown vs. Board of Education Supreme Court decision that outlawed segregation in public schools.
Americans, she said at the time of the 1954 decision, should be nice to Negroes, but not necessarily have to go to school with them.
And that left the Massachusetts Democratic senator in a position that her staff didnt want to talk about following her own harsh criticism of fellow presidential candidate Joe Biden over his tone-deaf comments about being pals with a couple of segregationist southern senators.
Im not here to criticize other Democrats, but its never OK to celebrate segregationists. Never, Warren sniffed in June after Bidens gaffes, in which he cited his friendships with Mississippi Sen. James Eastland and Georgia Sen. Herman Talmadge as examples of how to work across the aisle in Congress.
[link:https://nypost.com/2019/09/17/warren-had-her-own-segregationist-gaffe-during-washington-square-rally/|
Joe Biden caught a lot of flak for saying he had the gall to work with segregationists in the Senate, while Warren is praising a woman that is flat out racist as well. Why is Warren not being called out on this? Should she apologize if Biden has to as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,182 posts)and warren is one of the candidates who hasn't been personally attacking others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
5starlib
(191 posts)Though he never really praised them. She did the same thing. Biden was crucified on this very forum for doing much less.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,182 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I would note, it's difficult to reference most people in American history, in a positive light, given the prevalence of racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc. Any given historical person could be an ally on one issue (like labor) and terrible on another (like racism).
But yeah, if you're going to hold an opponent to a standard, you should also meet the standard. I hope she addresses this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that was "buried in an extremely long academic oral history interview," and not even the center devoted to her knew about?
Warren praised a specific achievement in workers' rights that had nothing to do with the obscure statement the woman made decades later.
Indeed, researchers at the Frances Perkins Center were unfamiliar with the material.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
5starlib
(191 posts)Her campaign has gone crickets on the matter. She needs to just be upfront and apologize for not knowing. That's all. Also, she needs to make sure she doesn't praise that woman again.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)toward the end of her life, that almost no one knew about and that had nothing to do with the accomplishment Warren praised her for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)The double standard is astounding.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that I have seen. Have you?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)She now had to work with segregationists -- not just have pro-segregation opinions and writings!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)AT THE F****** TIME they were segregationists ...
Versus the expectation that Warren should know everything some historical figure, who she never met, let alone worked with ... EVER said ... in her entire lifetime.
This has got to be a joke.
To be clear, I also didn't have any big issue w/what Biden said in the first place ... but these two things are really not comparable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)It is one thing to praise timeframe contributions of a person that would not have been happy to go to school with Blacks. It is another to say you actively worked with segregationists, as Biden did (though a close reading would show that he worked with them on General legistlation, except for his busing vote with them).
But Senator Warren should come out and make a simple statement about the controversy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)I don't give a damn about this but it shows that the attacks on Biden are unfair.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)he worked with, and he worked with them to end federally required busing for desegregation.
Warren didn't do anything remotely comparable to that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,163 posts)Biden: I was able to get along with segregationists and they didnt even call me boy.
Warren: Shortly after the turn of the 19th century, there once was a factory fire that spawned a workers rights activist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)
True Blue American This message was self-deleted by its author.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Warren indeed praised the woman for her actions around worker rights and safety and for Social Security origination. She was not praising a statement the lady made 20+ years later. Biden said that he WORKED with segregationalists on legistlation, of course he was likely saying legistlation that helped everyone, including Blacks that the seggies would, on their own, not helped.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)And the woman worked for civil rights! No one is perfect and this is just another tilting at Windmills when we should be backing each other.
And on this board not speak harshly of others. I am as guilty as everyone but trying to tear down a front runner who had 20,000 people at her rally with people waiting for hours for a selfie with Warren.
You ever see that at a Trump rally? He does not even shake hands with those attending his rallies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
5starlib
(191 posts)She was no different than Sen Eastland or Talmadge. And she died in 1965. So it's not like we're talking about a centuary ago.
So you're fine with Warren to continue to heap praise on her in future speeches now that her campaign is aware?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)The men, as Senators, publicly expressed racist views; and yet some progressives bragged about working with them, on anti-busing legislation.
Warren, OTOH, praised this woman for a specific accomplishment in workers rights that had nothing to do with the racist statements the woman made decades later.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
5starlib
(191 posts)and in the future? If Joe Biden would've praised her, the media and this place would've been at Defcon 4
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)this woman made in her long life, including things even only an oral historian knew before now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)And, unlike some of our Democrats in Congress, there is no evidence she ever worked with segregationists.
But, sure, hold her to today's standards. That makes so much sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to pnwmom (Reply #38)
NYMinute This message was self-deleted by its author.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)And there's really no reason to expect that Warren would've known some utterly obscure fact about some historical figure she'd never met or worked with.
They're not comparable ... and I have no problem with what Biden said, because I knew what I meant.
But I have negative-infinity level of 'caring' about this so-called 'gaffe' by Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)The next dem president better damn well be ready to slough thru mud and knee deep shit if needed to obtain those 1-2 gop votes that millions of Americans might be relying on.
Its called politics..its a nasty game. Sitting on the high fence of purity just because you dont want to get your hands dirty doesnt work!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)what Warren knew anyway.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)praising a woman for her accomplishments 20+ years before she made a statement about a new societal change that she was not fund of.
Using your standard, every great White American prior to today should be shunned if they make clueless statements about racial issues long after the accomplishments that we praise them for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,673 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)to end federally mandated busing for school desegregation.
How is that the same as praising the accomplishments of a woman born in 1880 who had worked for decades for workers rights, and who had no record of ever taking any segregationist positions in correction with her work? Whose only flaw in her public record seems to be contained in an an obscure oral history at the end of her life?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)Democrats by the way and they handed out committee assignments you know. However, this was an example of working wth the worst of the worst...he didn't praise them as Warren did.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
5starlib
(191 posts)Are you fine with her to continue to heap praise on this woman now that this info is out there?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mz Pip
(27,404 posts)was what Warren was referring to.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)worked with them for the good of the people...Warren was praising this apparently racist woman...in my eyes that is worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)work on with Senator Eastland and Senator Talmadge?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)He is another Senator who worked with Eastland and became friends...Yes, the lion of the Senate. He explains it better than I do and Biden as well.
How could I seek guidance, or cooperate in any way, with a proponent of segregation? Kennedy would ask decades later in his own memoir, True Compass. My decision regarding Eastlandin fact, my abiding impulse to reach across lines of division during my careertook strength from the concluding phase of Lincolns first inaugural address, on the eve of the civil war. I decided to put faith in the better angels of our nature. I worked with James Eastland; in fact, the two of us became friends. Then and always, I would work with anyone whose philosophies differed from mine as long as the issue at hand promoted the welfare of the people, and I would continue to await those better angels, and to remain confident in ultimate justice. (Of course, Kennedy and Eastland had many widely divergent ideas about just what constituted the welfare of the people.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)Biden working with segregationists was to get legislation passed I would think the specific legislation would be an important element in determing the effectiveness of that effort. I understand if you have no idea what Biden worked on at that time details don't seem to interest you much.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)inhabited...I bring it up because of the ridiculous assault on Biden...but he handed out committe assignments as well...so consider that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)despite her activisim around the Triangle Shirt Factory Fire, her being the first woman to hold a Presidential cabinet, and her drafting the Social Security Act, that Francis Perkins is not praiseworthy?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LAS14
(13,749 posts)... from our admiration because they lived in the time they lived in.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Biden praised active segregationists.
Now;
I think what Joe meant was that despite not caring for the mens' views on Blacks, he could work with them on legistlation that helped everyone. I am ok with what Joe felt in his heart.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Brag is the right word. I heard Biden say, He was able to work with them.We should understand that working with the other party means compromise and if you are incapable of doing that nothing is done.
Mitch McConnell is a perfect example of how the Senate does not work. Until we clean house of him and his co- horts like Lindsey Graham nothing will be done except ram rodding right wing Judges through to destroy more progress!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)working across the aisle with them made little sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,418 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)24 and 33 years later. And they both worked actively on segregationist issues. She did not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)Warren should have known better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)the same as heaping praise on eugenics?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Her statement, if I read correctly was "We should be nice to Blacks, but we shouldn't have to go to school with them".
That statement can be interpreted in several ways.
The first is that Blacks should have full societal rights as far as housing, jobs, school went, but Whites should have their own schools. You can call her segregationists if you want, but she was not the violent lynching type that Biden said he worked with.
Another interpretation would be "Give Blacks enough to keep them happy, but not what Whites get. Keep them out of our schools". That would be racist (including segregationist).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)She should just apologize, explain she hadn't heard the later comments, and move on.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Praising the achievements of Secretary Perkins during FDR' administration?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)She can't praise a segregationist herself and then just pretend it didn't happen. Given the circumstances it was clearly just a small error based on not being aware of Perkins later beliefs, so she should just come out and clear up the misunderstanding and move on.
I like Elizabeth Warren a lot, she's certainly my second choice after Bernie, and I don't want small missteps like this one to balloon into something that takes the focus off her campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Other than those few opinions expressed in an extremely long oral history interview toward the end of her life, I can't see anything connecting her with segregationist work at all -- unlike Senators Eastland and Talmadge, who helped push anti-busing bills through Congress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
5starlib
(191 posts)So is Perkins not one?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:03 AM - Edit history (1)
She may have (and clearly did) expressed deeply racist views in an obscure interview, but does not have a career dedicated to protecting and maintaining the Souths legal segregation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)she specifically said whites should not go to school with blacks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Link to tweet
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is public knowledge - enough for someone to have figured it out after EW quoted her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)when questioned by the NY Post.
Google Perkins, and racist terms ... there's nothing there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Or even spoke publicly about the topic? She was a product of her time. Other than some opinions in an oral history interview, decades after the work she was noted for, what evidence do you have?
Like everyone else, Perkins was a flawed human being. But she accomplished a great deal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins
Frances Perkins (born Fannie Coralie Perkins; April 10, 1880[1][2] May 14, 1965) was an American sociologist and workers-rights advocate who served as the U.S. Secretary of Labor from 1933 to 1945, the longest serving in that position, and the first woman appointed to the U.S. Cabinet. As a loyal supporter of her friend, Franklin D. Roosevelt, she helped pull the labor movement into the New Deal coalition. She and Interior Secretary Harold L. Ickes were the only original members of the Roosevelt cabinet to remain in office for his entire presidency.
During her term as Secretary of Labor, Perkins executed many aspects of the New Deal, including the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Public Works Administration and its successor the Federal Works Agency, and the labor portion of the National Industrial Recovery Act. With the Social Security Act she established unemployment benefits, pensions for the many uncovered elderly Americans, and welfare for the poorest Americans. She pushed to reduce workplace accidents and helped craft laws against child labor. Through the Fair Labor Standards Act, she established the first minimum wage and overtime laws for American workers, and defined the standard forty-hour work week. She formed governmental policy for working with labor unions and helped to alleviate strikes by way of the United States Conciliation Service. Perkins dealt with many labor questions during World War II, when skilled labor was vital and women were moving into formerly male jobs.[3]
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The Urban Leagues representatives, according to the Defender minced few words. They simply demanded unprejudiced, indiscriminate consideration of race workers and urged proper representation of our people by official appointments to staff positions. Perkins specifically assured Jones and Hill that the reforestation law could not discriminate because of race, color, or creed and she pledged to pass the word to CCC recruiters.
The CCC represented the first time in U.S. history that unemployed.
In the end, the CCC employed a percentage of black workers commensurate to the overall African American population. By late summer, the Chicago Defender was even more generous in its praise of the Secretary of Labor. You ought to be thankful to President Delano Roosevelt for appointing Mrs. Frances Perkins as his Secretary of Labor, the paper editorialized to its black readership on August 5. ... Perkins, in short, had given blacks as well as whites a chance for a new deal. For the first time, the black community had an advocate in the cabinet: She is for you, she stands on your issues, and by the same token you ought to be for her.
https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/45622/FrenchGhoMacFra.pdf
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
thesquanderer
(11,955 posts)People are products of their time... and they can do good even when they hold some terrible personal beliefs.
If I have any critique of Warren here, it's not for praising this woman, it's for her comment about about never celebrating a segregationist (and the associated implied criticism of Biden). We can praise Thomas Jefferson for the good he did, even while recognizing that he held slaves. The world is complicated.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)"But Perkins had a less admirable and less well known legacy later in life as a critic of the Brown vs. Board of Education Supreme Court decision that outlawed segregation in public schools.
Americans, she said at the time of the 1954 decision, should be nice to Negroes, but not necessarily have to go to school with them.
And that left the Massachusetts Democratic senator in a position that her staff didnt want to talk about following her own harsh criticism of fellow presidential candidate Joe Biden over his tone-deaf comments about being pals with a couple of segregationist southern senators..", its not overdue. And when the interviewer said it was 'overdue', MS. Perkins replied..."No, It is not overdue. Its just begun to loom up as due as nearly due. No wait! Nobody ever heard that segregation was wrong until about five years ago. I never heard such a thing. I never heard such a thing, Perkins said".
I am so sorry but Frances Perkins does not pass our current purity test...do many good things but have one bad idea or interview and out she goes as a heroine () . Will Warren apologize as she asked Biden to do?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and all the accounts criticizing Perkins recently have referred to? Do you have a single piece of evidence that she ever worked for segregation or publicly advocated for segregation other than the repeated references to that single interview near the end of her life?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)praising segregationists...something Biden didn't do...he said the segregationist senators were the worst of the worst (deplorables) but he worked with them to get stuff done for the American people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Worse than pathetic deflection. Frances Perkins' achievements are rightly, and widely celebrated. Big Jim Eastland is celebrated by virtually no-one. What a pathetic attempt to defect attention from the poor campaign by a front runner who puts his foot in his mouth every single week.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
5starlib
(191 posts)I don't give a damn what she did in her life. As a black man, this is offensive. I don't care what decade this was in. To praise this woman is wrong. And to continue to do so would be a smack in the mouth to African-Americans.
Isn't this the same reason why we're fighting to bring down confederate statues? Our society shouldn't be giving praises to people with such abhorrent views.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Then we are not even on the same page.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)but used them as an example of the worst of the worst...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)with even repugnant agendas one might have to deal with in order to get the job done. His praise was for getting that job done, not for the extremists.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)handed out committee assigments...I can only imgine the furor if Biden had praised a segregationist among those who support other caniddates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,418 posts)How do you know this story is even true? And if it is, maybe she had dementia. My mother is in her 80s and is in early dementia. She gets confused. Is her confusion now supposed to represent her entire life, negate all her accomplishments? How cruel would that be?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)of her views was a single oral history interview?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)do you construe a single qoute as working for something?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)disagree with had come done...while she gave lip service to desegregationi of Roosevelt era programs like the CCC, she did not get any of that done. And clearly, she did not support desegregation at least in her later years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)heard of before yesterday. I know you don't do details, but was the interview ever even published? Do you know who the interviewer was?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)of an oral history interview. She wasn't looking for publicity --- the interviewer came to her and she answered his questions. And this was a couple paragraphs cherry-picked out of many hours of talking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)will be a "racist gaffe" as well?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"What a pathetic attempt to defect attention from the second-tier campaign..."
(six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each as without as the other)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Democrats revere the New Deal, and disown the Dixiecrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stonecutter357
(12,682 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cosmocat
(14,543 posts)As someone who likes EW a good bit, would have said that at the time.
This stuff is out of control.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Should they have kept their peace/piece as well?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Botany
(70,291 posts)n/t
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)What does Warren have to apologize about, again?
Link to tweet
Dragging through the muck the woman responsible for social security, unemployment insurance, the minimum wage, the weekend and banning child labour is counterproductive, to say the least.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wiley
(2,921 posts)It would make it not a big deal. I had no idea Perkins said this, but why not educate the public? She's not doing especially well with people of color. at the moment.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JI7
(89,182 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)and she has reached 10% among black voters, which is about a tripling of support.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,673 posts)Also Warren never worked with Perkins to pass and/or try to pass racist-based legislation like Biden did with the segregationist Senators. Under this attempt to quash speech due to historical figures' sometimes repugnant views, a vast majority of praise for people from the 1700's, 1800's, even into the first half 1900's (to a lesser degree) is never going to be allowed. Hell, Lincoln was a racist. Obviously 95% plus of the 'Founding Fathers' were, etc etc etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,300 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)
Seriously, this attack on Warren is straight out of the GOP playbook. To see DUers stoop this low is beyond sad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Supposedly hates illegals yet focuses on keeping only 1 race out of America despite numbers being here from all over the world.
Threw paper towels and disparaging remarks at brown people whom he didnt even seem to know or acknowledge as Americans after it had been devastated by a hurricane, then moved every resource possible and imaginable to assist the Florida panhandle and Texas, where he has large numbers of his constituents when they got hit with lessor effect.
Just yesterday disparaged the homeless for very presence in great areas. What race is it again that is grossly disproportionately afflicted with homelessness again?
Has shifted federal funding away from public schools with more effect on schools with minority majorities into already better funded and apportioned, and more white private schools.
Biden is not a racist or pro segregationist.
Warren is not a racist or pro segregationist.
Sanders is not a racist or pro segregationist.
None of our candidates are pro segregationist!!
These attacks on each other from each others camps? This shits going to help put a REAL LIVING president whose very actions evidence segregationist principles back into office for another 4 years if we dont get our collective heads out of our posteriors and focus on the real problem.. its in the Whitehouse right now by the way.
I am appreciative of the point you are trying to drive home, its not lost on me, but damn these things are disheartening to say the least.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Praising a historical figure who was a famous worker's rights advocate,the 1st woman cabinet member, and gets credited for implementing significant parts of the FDR's New Deal despite the fact that she commented on the Brown vs Board decision in a racist way is just like bragging about working personally with segregationists in Congress. Right. You are talking about a conversation about a person from a different historical era and comparing that to a discussion of his own political career that Joe Biden used to illustrate his history of working across the aisle.
How about this:
"As one of our Founding Fathers, the person who drafted our Declaration of Independence, somebody who not only was an extraordinary political leader but also one of our great scientific and cultural leaders, Thomas Jefferson represents whats best in America."
That's Barack Obama talking about Thomas Jefferson who owned slaves.
The article you present shows a lack of historical understanding. That or its just disingenuous.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Raven123
(4,716 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)A consistency of context dramatically denied to the front-runner and leader.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Bragging about working across the aisle with segregationists is not remotely the same as recognizing the achievements of flawed historical figures.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)If your goal is to pass legislation
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)I'm ready for your lecture on how the Civil War wasn't REALLY about slavery, it was about states' rights!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Civil War was about slavery and my comment had nothing to do with apologizing for slaveholders.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
frazzled
(18,402 posts)When Joe Biden was working with segregationist senators like Eastland in the 1970s to get legislation passed, Elizabeth Warren was a Republican. Having come of voting age in 1970, she would presumably have cast a vote for Richard Nixon, who famously made racist comments, conducted a dog whistle racist campaign in the South, and advocated theories that equated race with IQ. And she would have presumably voted for Gerald Ford (who probably was not so racist), Ronald Reagan, who compared Africans to monkeys, and George HW Bush, with his Willie Horton ad.
Whether she herself held these views (and its quite possible she did not), by affiliating herself with the Republican Party until the mid 1990s, she was enabling senators and presidents to promote racist policies.
So can we forget the gaffes and call it even?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,284 posts)Written in 1975:
Elizabeth Warren's first law review article blasted an anti-busing court ruling
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/06/politics/elizabeth-warren-busing-desegregation-kfile/index.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
frazzled
(18,402 posts)In this context. When you are a Republican until 1996, you are in part responsible for Republican initiatives and legislation and rhetoric.
Its like the argument made many times here regarding Trump voters: sure, they may not all be bigots themselves, but by supporting Trump they are guilty of enabling bigotry. You cant have it both ways.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)Surprised you didn't notice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)into tit-for-tat finger-pointing over a name mentioned, a detail skewed, a phrase that produces faux outrage.
Can we now admit this is all dumb and dumber, that the constant attacks on Biden over nothingburgers simply weakens our hand for 2020? Otherwise, be prepared to see more like this: continuous what's-good-for-the-goose moments.
Dumb and self-defeating. In fact, it reminds me of juvenile school yard taunting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,300 posts)The two things are in no way equal to anyone with half a brain and an ounce of knowledge of any history and the OP should be ashamed of themselves, and also it's the New York Post.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)Shame on all those who are jumping on this in an effort to smear Elizabeth Warren!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demmiblue
(36,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)Biden's race gaffes stuck because of policy decisions that he made involving incarcerating Black men, opposition to busing, and his defense of predatory credit lenders who targeted minorities (for starters).
Biden's gaffes about Iraq stick because he used his position of leadership to disallow voices of dissent before the invasion to be heard by the Senate as he handed the keys to George W. Bush.
Biden went out of his way to specifically choose two prominent segregationists to make a point about working with them as a sign of his ability to work across the aisle.
What does this gaffe reveal about Warren?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)You should not slander our likely nominee...fact is Warren praised a woman who supported segregation. And none of what you post is true or relevant.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)Biden reveled in the politics of the 1994 law, bragging after it passed that the liberal wing of the Democratic Party was now for 60 new death penalties, 70 enhanced penalties, 100,000 cops, and 125,000 new state prison cells.
The law imposed tougher prison sentences at the federal level and encouraged states to do the same. It provided funds for states to build more prisons, aimed to fund 100,000 more cops, and backed grant programs that encouraged police officers to carry out more drug-related arrests an escalation of the war on drugs.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/20/18677998/joe-biden-1994-crime-bill-law-mass-incarceration
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)federal crimes to and was supposed to halt the increased crime of the day...but...it didn't what you said per your own article...
"Yet evaluations of the 1994 crime law suggest these state-level provisions didnt really work out. The 1994 law led only a few states to adopt harsher criminal justice policies, and the tougher policies the 1994 law encouraged werent the only measures that fueled mass incarceration overall.
A 1998 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), for which federal investigators talked to state officials about whether the 1994 law influenced state policies, noted that just four states adopted truth in sentencing laws (TIS) solely as a response to the 1994 law:
At the time of our review, based upon determinations made by DOJ, 27 states had TIS laws that met the requirements for receiving federal TIS grants. For each of these 27 states, we contacted state officials to determine whether the availability of such grants was a factor in the respective states decision to enact a TIS law. Based on the responses to our telephone survey, the states can be grouped into three categoriesTIS grants not a factor (12 states), TIS grants a partial factor (11 states), and TIS grants a key factor (4 states)".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)towards the end of her life, please provide examples of how Frances Perkins advocated segregationist policies during her life.
Per this article, it appears that your headline is wildly inaccurate. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41841218?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Since when is the NYPost a reliable source of information?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jose Garcia
(2,552 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,455 posts)Some Biden supporters are becoming cartoonish. She WASN'T praising her for being a segregationist. How ignorant. She was praising her work on behalf of labor and women. And it was a century ago. It's not the same as Biden praising senators who were FIRST AND FOREMOST segregationists while they were in the senate together.
These attempts at false equivalency by Biden supporters not only reveal a desperation at how the race is going but just how low they will go in attempts to save a candidate they know deep down is flawed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)with known segregationists (and actually saying so) is light years from not knowing what someone once said 140 years ago that, really, no one else really knew either.
Tit for tat is not justified here. This is just a low blow attack.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)with praise for eugenics, and they would be wrong as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elocs
(22,476 posts)Does Warren make gaffes with regularity?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)I expect more attacks as his crowds shrink
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MarcA
(2,195 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)Must we resort to Faux-Noise petty tidbit tactics between us here at DU rather than posting, fortifying our choice candidate's positive attributes?
I echo the first reply here: lets not do this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)Unfortunately, as a party this is the standard we have set. 100% idealogical perfection from womb to grave or you will be CRUCIFIED. And you better hope anyone you've associated with, or even made eye contact with during your lifetime, has lived the same.
Though it's hard for me to even complain about it because I know we're simply lying in the bed we made. It'd actually be kind of funny if it wasn't so 1984-ish.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LAS14
(13,749 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,163 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Layzeebeaver
(1,576 posts)Slave owner.
We quote him all the time.
Nuff said.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LAS14
(13,749 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,211 posts)through the mud. I understand what Warren was attempting to do, and I don't necessarily agree that she should be condemned for trying to make a valid point, but fair is fair.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I wasn't in attendance, but it seems undisputed that Senator Warren invoked Frances Perkins in her speech Tuesday evening. Ms. Perkins was instrumental in getting work safety legislation enacted following her witnessing the Triangle Shirt Factory Fire. She was also the first woman in a Presidential cabinet, but the activism was apparently what Warren concentrated on. A bit of reading about Perkins and her lifetime achievements convinced me she was a very praiseworthy individual.
Nikki Schwab wrote an article that was printed in the New York Post. In that article Ms. Schwab characterized Perkins as a segregationist based on comments Perkins made in an interview when she was in her 80s. In the interview Perkins expressed her displeasure with the SCOTUS decision on Brown v The Board of Education and indicated she thought anti-segregation was something that had been forced on people. The remarks are certainly disturbing and it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Perkins said them. Schwab pulled the remarks from a dissertation by an assistant professor at Syracuse University, Steven White. I don't believe the interview was ever published so it really isn't the case that Perkins was in any practical way a segregationist even though she likely accepted the notion that non-white people were inferior.
I'm not inclinded to think that Warren should stop talking about Frances Perkins in her speeches she is a very inspiring individual.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided