Saw a poll on CNN this morning showing Bernie

[boston bean]

has converted 0% of 2016 Hillary supporters to support him in 2020.

I can’t believe it!!!

[Cha]

1. Mahalo for the report, Boston Bean.

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2019, 08:33 AM - Edit history (1)

[W_HAMILTON]

2. I can.

[BlueMTexpat]

3. Perhaps you should

have used the sarcasm smilie!

[boston bean]

4. Haha

[Mike Nelson]

5. I said long ago...

... he should figure out how to talk about Hillary (and Obama). He would be in a much better position... Warren knows, and there she is...

[lark]

6. I 100% agree with that.

I am a 2016 Bernie primary voter who easily switched to Hillary for the general. Bernie's actions since then have been disqualifying in my book so there's no way I would vote for him in the upcoming primary. I will be voting for Joe or if he leaves, Elizabeth. The only way I vote for Bernie is if he is our general candidate, which I believe will not happen. However, if he is,, I will even work for him because he would still be light years better than drumpf - the first true traitor to occupy the office.

[leftieNanner]

51. I am exactly the same as you!

I really liked Bernie last time. Happily switched to Hillary. Do not like what Bernie has done in the past three years and will not vote for him in the primary. We have so many better options this time. I'm a Warren supporter but will vote for the Democratic nominee in the General Election without fail.

[LakeArenal]

55. Me three!

[Sloumeau]

7. As someone who voted for Hillary and not Bernie...

...I totally believe it. The people I know that voted for Hillary are much more likely, I believe, to go Biden or Warren.

[samnsara]

37. i voted for HRC so im one who went for biden..but warren is a close 2nd.

[George II]

8. ...

[mcar]

9. Did he and his team really think they would convert any of us?

2016 wasn't that long ago.

[comradebillyboy]

45. They haven't even bothered to try...nt

[LiberalFighter]

10. He sure as hell didn't convert me.

[stonecutter357]

11. We just don't know Sanders !

[Gothmog]

12. I am not surprised by this polling

[NurseJackie]

13. Really?!!

[blm]

14. Not surprising. Hillary should have been in the WH the last 3yrs.

[samnsara]

20. yes! i agree....

[ehrnst]

15. Another poll showed that a majority of his 2016 supporters aren't supporting him for 2020

It's not like he's tried to reach out to HRC supporters. It's almost like he thinks he doesn't need all those votes.

Saying "it was silly" for her to talk about the 2016 election certainly didn't show much respect for HRC, and by extension, her supporters.

He seems to put the interests and priorities of the conservative White Working Class Male above those of Democrats and the rest of the population of the US, at times.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. Count me among his "exes."

I supported him in 2016 - never really believing he'd get the nomination, but hoping some of his ideas would take hold - but after Hillary was nominated I was happy to switch my support. Since then I've been disappointed in his and his supporters' my-way-or-the-highway behavior and his hiring of some Jill Stein supporters and bomb-throwers like David Sirota. He reminds me of some of the doctrinaire old lefties of the '60s, an era he doesn't seem ever to have left.

[comradebillyboy]

16. Sanders ever shrinking base shows his serious lack of

people skills. He doesn't seem capable of reaching out to anybody very well. He's still bitter over his loss in 2016 and just can't forgive Hillary for beating him. I expect him to turn on Warren now that she's beating him in the polls.

[NurseJackie]

18. He really lacks the demeanor and temperament to be the Leader of the Free World...

Sanders ever shrinking base shows his serious lack of people skills

He really lacks the demeanor and temperament to be the Leader of the Free World... and people know it. Whether it's how he responds to parents with a crying baby, or interrupting fellow panelists with intrusive and rude in-your-face gesticulations, or being noticeably absent (more than once) from long-scheduled events, or a subdued and passive response to the smears and attacks from supporters who thought BS was entitled to a particular endorsement... I think it's a fair observation and characterization to be direct and simply point out that people are tired of the BS campaign.

I expect him to turn on Warren now that she's beating him in the polls.

I believe your observation and prediction will turn out to be correct in that regard. It won't be long before the usual surrogates start attacking.

[qazplm135]

23. He speaks to the choir very well

he can't speak to anyone else.

[dawn5651]

17. i can folks don't like being screamed at

[LakeArenal]

56. yes..

Didn't want to use CAPS

[samnsara]

19. i can believe it 100%

[oasis]

21. Not even a slight bump after finally releasing his taxes?

oh my!

[KSNY]

22. Will you please stop the Bernie bashing?

The corporate media focuses on personality/horse race issues. I come to this site for more than that.
I support Bernie's ideas and proposals and I believe that his anger at neo-liberal approaches connects with people's outrage at being shunted to the side of politics in favor of big donors and corporations that Trump connected to (though Trump was/is a conman). I voted for Hillary (since she was the Democratic nominee), and I will vote for Warren (or anyone else) if s/he is the Democratic nominee.
The exchange above reads as very petty to me.

[qazplm135]

25. I mean he's now more or less third

and falling a bit, so clearly he's not connecting with enough folks.

And he doesn't know how to adjust.

[NurseJackie]

27. Oh good lord! GMAFB! Nobody is "bashing" anyone.

Will you please stop the Bernie bashing?

Oh good lord! GMAFB! Nobody is "bashing" anyone. This is simply the reporting and commenting on news and facts that are obviously not good news for BS or his followers.

I voted for Hillary (since she was the Democratic nominee),

Yes, of course...

The exchange above reads as very petty to me.

This criticism reads as hypersensitive to me. I'm sure that BS has thick enough skin to handle it.

[ehrnst]

31. Citing a poll is "bashing?"

What exchange is "petty?"

And who was "shunted aside" for "big donors?"

What competent politician needs people to smear the free press as "corrupt" whenever they post something that's displeasing to them?

[KSNY]

40. The exchange after the poll criticized the candidate and was petty

I objected to the exchange on this forum. The poll may be accurate and that is fine. The corporate media is a major factor in why we have Trump as president. Its horse racing focus, takes people's attention off the fact that they are losing rights.

[ehrnst]

41. You are objecting to the other posters comments on this thread? (nt)

[George II]

42. Are you serious?

[LakeArenal]

58. He does yell a lot

He does get angry a lot

With all candidates having similar qualities, agendas and goals, Personality does come into serious play.

Sorry that’s how it is. Today Warren carries the message better than Bernie.

[we can do it]

72. Oh my.

[TidalWave46]

24. Filling his top campaign spots with people who worked against Clinton in the general...

has clearly been a fatal decision. A rookie politician could have told him it would disqualify him from the start.

People go around joking about "That's disqualifying."

But this move by the Sanders campaign was a move of self disqualification. Any shot of him being able to win went out the door with his early hires. Hard for me to believe they were the only ones willing to work for him. The residue after the remaining candidates pulled in the top campaign people. Nope. It was a thought out decision. A very poor one. Killed his campaign before it even started.

You hire people like Sirota, Turner, and Gray for the general election. Hiring such questionable people for a primary is simply a poor move. Their highly questionable character will always follow them around and they will make themselves the story.

[George II]

44. Three of his top four staffers made no secret that they supported and voted for Jill Stein....

In fact, the talk going around in late July 2016 was that Nina Turner was going to be Jill Stein's running mate.

[djacq]

26. Believe this Hillary Clinton Supporter;

Voted for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Democratic Primary.
Voted for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Kamala Harris is my #1 Pick (leaning toward #2)
Elizabeth Warren is my #2 Pick (might switch to #1 after next debate)

Will vote Joe Biden if nominee.

I like Bernie Sanders but he is not anywhere on my list.

Will vote Blue no matter who.

[BooScout]

28. I'm SHOCKED!

So, so shocked!

[katmondoo]

30. I saw Bernie not helping Hillary after he lost the nomination, he owed her a lot

He made his mark attacking her and should have been more of a help to defeat Trump

[Blue_true]

60. His really weak support for Hillary in the General still makes me made when I think of it.

It was just dumbfounding to watch his behavior leading up to our convention, during the convention and during the General. After the convention, he vanished completely until something like early October, then he did only four cursory events in support of Hillary. There is absolutely no way that I support him in a prinary against democrats, but I would be behind him 1,000% if he somehow wins our nomination. Trump again is a non starter and I won't let my feelings about Bernie prevent me from supporting and voting for Bernie if he is our nominee.

[Historic NY]

32. So what, we couldn't believe Bernie Bros voted for TRump...

but they did ....

A 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey found fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders during the Democratic primaries followed up and voted for Clinton in the general election. At least 12 percent of Sanders supporters cast a vote for Trump that November.

"They gave him the margin of victory in three critical states that gave Donald Trump the presidency: Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania," Thiessen continued. "He needs to get those voters back. So for example, in Pennsylvania, 16 percent of Sanders supporters voted for Donald Trump. That's a total of about 116,000 voters, Trump won by 44,000 votes. So in all those states it was the Sanders supporters who gave Trump the margin of victory and gave him the presidency if you just do the math."

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-fox-news-trump-voters-1396913]


And so far they are indicating they will do it again....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bernie-or-bust-the-sanders-supporters-who-will-back-trump-if-their-man-isnt-democratic-nominee]

[Blue_true]

61. Almost 43% of Americans didn't vote.

Lots of those people have been scortched by Trump and his policies. We need to ignore the hard Bernie people and focus on getting a good slice of the 2016 non voters voting for our nominee.

[betsuni]

67. The press should start interviewing the non-voters, we need to do something about this.

We know why people vote for Trump, they don't need any more attention. I want information, long articles on why the hell so many Americans who can vote, don't.

[Blue_true]

68. I actually met a couple. Tried to convince them to vote for Hillary, but they said that

nothing would change. They were wrong, it has gotten really bad for this country and the world. Some who didn't vote can't wait for a chance to vote against Trump now. Some people have to be hit up side the head with a brick before they see reality.

[sheshe2]

33. Oh my. nt

[DesertRat]

34. No surprise there

[kstewart33]

35. Two reasons.

Bern isn't a Democrat and he was a significant factor in Hillary's defeat.

[onetexan]

36. not sure why so many people have a hard time understanding these 2 reasons

[Gothmog]

38. There are far too many real democrats who have good memories

These real democrats will not forget or forgive

[Hortensis]

47. AND he wanted the superdelegates to illicitly make HIM the nominee

after he lost the popular vote by a very wide margin. He'd promised to many times while campaigning and in the end he did ask every one to betray their trust and name him. And every one flat refused. Of course.

We should have been rolling on the floor and trying not to spit at his face on the screen when he went after his fellow superdelegates afer that, claiming they were a danger to our democratic process, when it was they who protected it, and us, from him.

Oh, and "reform" from someone who knew Russia was boosting his candidacy in order to defeat Democrats and accepted their assistance by keeping quiet about it.

I really appreciated hearing about this poll, Kstewart. An indication of widespread Democratic good sense and probity in crazy times. At least in this case. We know what happened.

I also really like the 11% for Sanders in the Iowa poll. Still regrettably high considered all we're talking about; but in almost all places, candidates who don't get 15% or more don't get any delegates.

[PhoenixDem]

39. I can believe it

BS lacks empathy and his slogans come across as insincere. One can see that his ego takes precedence over building a political consensus and he is incapable of creating a coalition of Democrats from all walks of life. Of all the Democratic constituencies and stake holders, he appeals to only one group. Instead of showing genuine interest and working "with" the constituents, he makes Caeserian proclamations with gifts that people now know he can never deliver.

"Free aqueducts for Gaul or free walls for Scotland" didn't work for the Caesars either.

[Blue_true]

63. There is a reason why a person that has been in Congress as long as he has,

has no real accomplishment outside of one big co-sponsorship of a veteran's bill. His abandonment of Vermont democrats when they tried to get Single Payer started there after passage of the ACA should clinch the reality of his behavior for all but the totally clueless.

[PhoenixDem]

66. +1000 nt

[Gothmog]

43. sanders' team was never planning on converting any Clinton voters

This is from a while back but the sanders team's strategy was based on sanders winning both Iowa and New Hampshire, splitting the African American vote and sanders getting 30% of the delegates for a contested convention. The sanders team was never counting on converting any Clinton voters https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/04/bernie-sanders-thinking-he-will-win-it-all-2020/587326/

He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to put him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.

Link to tweet

sanders is not likely to win both Iowa and New Hampshire and the African American vote is not being split.

[comradebillyboy]

46. Loved the Nate Silver tweet. Bernie's folks really overreact to Nate's tweets

and the twitter fights are fun to watch but I don't see how any of that advances his candidacy.

[Cha]

50. Thank you, Goth..

[Gothmog]

52. I still do not understand how sanders expected to get the nomination with 30% of delegates

That plan never made sense to me. Super delegates would be able to vote on the second ballot and sanders is not popular with super delegates

[Blue_true]

64. Their mindset is that they can make grand pronouncements and just run right

over the rest of us. They don't take input, they just spin out what they think is ideal and call anyone that question their logic names.

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. I can believe it!!

[betsuni]

49. Flawed candidate. He has not earned their votes.

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2019, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)

[Gothmog]

53. The latest numbers give me hope that sanders will not be able to put name into nomination

I am hopeful that sanders can be kept under 300 delegates and not have his name put into nomination. One key item is that under the rules, a candidate cannot be put into nomination without 300 delegates. The 15% rule will keep sanders from getting delegates in a good number of states and now there are far fewer caucuses https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020-Call-for-Convention-WITH-Attachments-2.26.19.pdf

Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President: The Permanent Chair shall receive nominations from the floor for the Democratic candidate for the Office of President of the United
States in the following manner:

a. Requests to nominate a presidential candidate shall be in writing and shall have affixed thereto the written approval of the proposed nominee and the name of the individuals who shall be recognized to make the nominating and seconding speeches on behalf of a presidential candidate and shall be delivered to the Convention Secretary at a location as specified by the Secretary no later than 6:00 p.m. of the day preceding the day designated for the commencement of presidential nominations.

b. Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Pledged and automatic delegates may sign the petition.

If sanders is frozen out of enough states due to the 15% rule and remaining non-Biden delegates are split among several candidates, there is a chance that sanders may not reach 300 threshold

[comradebillyboy]

59. That would be too sweet...

[Blue_true]

65. It would be poetic justice. nt

[wasupaloopa]

54. Believe it. 2016 left memories.

[BlueMississippi]

62. I think it is over for BS

He should drop out and let the remaining candidates sort it out. It won't be possible for him to win over HRC supporters.

[brooklynite]

69. More significant numbers...

Bernie has converted 50% of 2016 Bernie supporters to support him in 2020.

[Quixote1818]

70. Kind of interesting that ex-Hillary aids want Sanders to get the "Hillary treatment" this round

Wouldn't that mean the DNC would now favor Sanders this round and give him all kinds of advantages from the get go?

VOX: Former Hillary Clinton aides really want Bernie Sanders to get the Clinton treatment.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18253459/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-2020-relitigate-primary

Warren: DNC was rigged against Sanders: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/11/02/elizabeth-warren-dnc-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-lead.cnn

[thesquanderer]

71. If someone preferred Hillary to Bernie in 2016, it's hard to imagine them...

...preferring Bernie to Biden or Beto or Buttigieg or Harris or Warren or Klobuchar this time, all of whom are closer to Hillary (in more centrist policies and/or in being a woman, for those to whom that was a big factor in their support) than Sanders is. Okay, zero is low, but I have a hard imagining why any Hillary supporter would choose Bernie. Maybe if they felt he had the best chance to beat Trump, that's about it.