Every Woman Noticed That Infuriating Elizabeth Warren/Joe Biden Debate Moment

[bluewater]

Remember when we knew and largely loved Joe Biden as “Uncle Joe,” Barack Obama’s trusty vice president and surrogate “brother?” I long for those days. Truly, I wish Biden had let those good feelings, and that fairly fuzzy legacy, stand. But Biden had to go and run for president, dredging up the (perfectly valid) questions of how he mishandled the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill hearings (which he has all but refused to apologize to Hill for), his allegedly inappropriate touching, and an ever-growing number of patronizing interactions with women. The latest, at Tuesday night’s fourth Democratic debate: Biden demanded Elizabeth Warren give him credit for her spearheading the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), the federal agency established after the 2008 financial crisis to regulate mortgage lenders, credit card companies, and other financial products.

Link to tweet

This interaction contained multitudes, and virtually all of them sparked familiar frustration and infuriation in women watching. Perhaps most maddening of all was the practice of a man attempting to take credit for a woman’s work, and at a very high level no less—in this case, Biden raising his voice and practically shouting at Warren: “I went on the floor and got you votes. I got votes for that bill.” Sure, but that’s secondary to Warren’s conceiving of the CFPB itself, as even former chief Obama adviser David Axelrod noted on Twitter. The Harvard Business Review has found that women tend to get less credit than men for group work: It’s more than troubling that, if Biden had his way, this principle would hold true even when said “group work” takes place in the upper echelons of government.

Link to tweet

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/every-woman-noticed-infuriating-elizabeth-163828697.html

[tblue37]

1. K&R for visibility. nt

[pattyloutwo]

2. He tried to make it about him

Yelling, “ I got you those votes;” it’s not about you, Joe. The sexism runs deep.

[w4rmaa]

49. Biden either misremembered or lied about significantly helping to pass the CFPB.

When Warren was asked to respond, a look of anger washed over her face. She paused, and said, very deliberately, “I am deeply grateful to President Obama, who fought so hard to make sure that agency was passed into law, and I am deeply grateful to every single person who fought for it and who helped pass it into law.”

Biden, however, was not one of those people, according to numerous sources who were involved in the fight over the CFPB’s creation. He did, however, offer Warren a verbal pat on the head at the end of the exchange on Tuesday. “You did a hell of a job in your job,” he said.

“Thank you,” Warren deadpanned.
…
But the insistence that Biden had anything whatsoever to do with rallying support for the CFPB in the Senate left many other people closely involved scratching their heads.

“In all honesty, that was news to me last night,” said Jim Manley, who was communications director for Reid at the time. A senator closely involved in the fight, who didn’t want to speak on the record, said that he never heard from Biden. A former Senate staffer who worked on the bill told us, about Biden’s claim, “I needed a drink when I heard that.” They added that Biden and his staff were not involved in any Hill meetings on the subject or engaged in the legislative process in any fashion.

Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., was the CFPB statute’s lead author in the House. Asked what Biden did to win votes for the CFPB, Miller told The Intercept and the American Prospect: “Nothing.”

He elaborated on Twitter: “I had no contact with Biden and cannot recall ever hearing his name mentioned by anyone,” he said.
…
Steele did not find Biden’s name among the list of key participants in the crafting of the bill, he said on Twitter. There were just three references to Biden in the book, the most substantial of which involves him showing up for the signing ceremony.
Joe Biden’s Mysterious Claim That He Whipped Votes for the CFPB

[TidalWave46]

3. It's a team sport...

That often isn’t realized in primary battles.

[HeartlandProgressive]

4. Biden went way over the line. Raising his voice and aggressive hand gestures made it all much worse.

[Ohiogal]

28. I agree.

That was over the top and wrong of him to do that.

[mopinko]

5. this is why representation matters.

this is something that strikes me about biden. he tries hard to be an ally, but he doesnt know that that doesnt exclude the need for actual representation.
that's how the whole bussing thing struck me. there is a fine, slippery line here. it matters. some folks remember the silence of our friends more clearly than their self serving words.

[hlthe2b]

6. This woman has been there, but I see two sides. Biden was clearly hurt by her acknowledgement only

of Obama which bugged me too. She deserves her successes but he DID get votes for this and many other legislative successes, including ACA.

Yes, she deserves a ton of credit there, but I didn't like that exchange from either direction.

[BeyondGeography]

8. You have the sequencing wrong

She thanked Obama after he interrupted. All he had to do was let her say her piece, but no. And after he butts in she’s supposed to thank him? No.

I’m glad it went the way it did. Warren handled it with a rare degree of self-possession.

[highplainsdem]

19. You apparently missed the point she was trying to make when she offered, to counter Biden

pointing out earlier what he'd accomplished, an account of her role in CFPB, in which she did not acknowledge that he'd helped, though he was standing right next to her.

The most gracious thing for her to do would have been to thank both President Obama and Biden as soon as she started talking about it, and then emphasize her own role.

Instead she not only didn't mention Biden, but she threw in a line about some Democrats opposing CFPB. She didn't name them, and that could easily have been misread as implying Bden had opposed it, when the opposite was true. I don't know if she was trying to do that, but at that point she definitely should have mentioned his support for the bill. But she didn't.

Had she taken even a couple of seconds, a few words, to acknowledge that help, you almost certainly would have seen Biden thanking her and complimenting her more on her work.

Instead, she apparently was trying to take credit for CFPB without giving him any credit at all.

I'm not sure she would even have gotten around to thanking President Obama if thanking him and again ignoring Biden's help hadn't been a way to slap back at Biden for remiinding her that he'd helped to get the votes needed to pass that bill.

[bigbrother05]

43. We'll never know if she would have thanked them because he interrupted her

If he'd have waited, she might have thanked them both. If she didn't, he could have stated that he was glad to have helped in his role as VP to bring it across the line.

Didn't watch it, but did she interrupt his listing of his accomplishments? Did she butt in to say she voted for many of those same things?

[highplainsdem]

81. No. Biden did NOT interrupt her while she was touting her own role. She ran over allotted time

-- as she so often did during the debate, which is probably a good part of why she had several minutes more speaking time than the others -- and the moderator tried to cut her off, but she kept talking over him. She finally stopped talking after the second time he (Cooper) said, "Thank you, Senator." But she had moved on to talking about her anti-corruption bill and repealing the filibuster by that point. There was NO sign she had intended to thank either Obama or Biden while she was touting her own importance, ignoring the fact that a plan is NOT a law, and it's worth very little if you can't get it through Congress.

Anyway, after she finally trailed off after Cooper interrupted her a second time, Cooper then started to address a question to Mayor Pete, but Biden spoke up because she'd referenced him and he had a right to reply to that:

BIDEN: I agree. Let me -- she referenced me. I agreed with the great job she did, and I went on the floor and got you votes. I got votes for that bill. I convinced people to vote for it. So let's get those things straight, too.

Then Cooper asked Warren if she wanted to respond.

And that was when she snarkily thanked Obama without thanking Biden.

It was clearly meant as a slap back at Biden. It wasn't even really complimentary to Obama. She was just thanking him to make it clear she wasn't thanking Biden.

Who had FIRST stated that he agreed with what a great job Warren did, BEFORE he reminded her that he helped get the bill passed.

Mike Barnicle on Morning Joe the other day said Warren's behavior showed "smallness." I used the word "petty" and I stand by that view of how she behaved.



Editing to add a link to the debate transcript:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/15/october-democratic-debate-transcript/

[MrsCoffee]

45. Yeah no.

You don’t praise a man for trying to interrupt and take your credit. I guarantee it hit her harder than those of us who had to watch that.

She may well have been ready to thank both him and Obama. You will never know now. To try to put the onus on her is some typical hater bullshit.

[Bradshaw3]

69. How do you know he helped get it passed?

Other than his claim that he did. And as we all know Joe's memory either fails him quite often or he makes things up.

[whathehell]

56. She did NOT only acknowledge Obama

After thanking him, she added "and to all those who helped pass the bill" and that, obviously, includes Joe. After the way he angrily shouted at her, I'd say he was lucky to get that.

[hlthe2b]

59. I like Warren. I don't blame her for reacting. However,

it was far more than you described. After she profusely acknowledged and thanked Obama there was a very long pause and only after the crowd murmurs and groans uncomfortably, did she thank others as well. I understand why she did that and I undoubtedly have done similar or worse, but it was a pointed and not at all subtle move and that is why it isn't "clean." The crowd groaned for a reason. Go back to the tape and see.

Both Biden and Warren need to put past differences aside and simply focus on their positions. They've long been in conflict, but there is no reason they can't separate themselves from each other in a way that does not come across as
crass. There are more-- like me-- that remain undecided albeit open to either (and other) candidates.

[whathehell]

63. You must have been watching a different debate than I..

I heard no thanks to anyone until Biden YELLED at her about his "help" which prompted her to thank "President Obama and others who helped pass this legislation"....There was no "pause" on her part, and the only
"murmurs and groans" I heard from the crowd were in response to Joe's outburst.

[hlthe2b]

65. It is after the outburst I am talking about. Go watch yourself. I understand but BOTH came off badly

And yes, I did re-watch. And yes, though I would likely have done something quite similar as Warren, every damned time I have in a professional setting, it only hurt ME. That's the truth.

[vsrazdem]

7. Another example of why Biden should not be the nominee.

[oasis]

17. Yup, because Bernie has never, ever acted in such a way.

[vsrazdem]

38. More whataboutism. I support Bernie because he paved the way for the party to embrace

more progressive ideals, but am cognizant of the fact that he will probably not be the nominee. That does not change the fact that Biden should not be a nominee. Warren is a much better choice.

[MrsCoffee]

46. I think you confuse paving with bulldozing.

He only joined the Democratic Party temporarily to use their roads to money, media and data. The Democrats paved those roads long ago and let him borrow the car. He took the car and tried to run them all down with lies and misrepresentations and painted himself the sole person who could fix a made up problem with a recycled Ukrainian revolution dreamt up by Devine and Manafort. A Ukrainian revolution that coined the phrase “lock her up” by the way. I know it’s all weird coincidence.

Democrats ushered in a Blue Wave without Bernie. In fact, I am of the opinion that his antics have cost us years that we didn’t have to lose.

[peggysue2]

51. x1000!

Well said and absolutely true.

[Blistering Sun]

9. Nice spin.

Last edited Thu Oct 17, 2019, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Warren falsely claimed that "all the Washington insiders and strategic geniuses" fought her--a clear shot at Joe Biden--when the truth was he DID help get the votes to pass her bill.

She was ungracious and untruthful in her response. And she was ungracious untruthful in framing her accomplishment at the outset of this answer.

Biden has every right to defend the actual record against Warren's falsehoods.

People who spin the truth are the ones who are infuriating. Playing the "gender card" to cover mendacity is more than infuriating.

[UncleNoel]

57. Though I posted a more moderating view, still this makes sense.

[highplainsdem]

10. This woman noticed it, and I found Warren's behavior infuriating. I thought she

came across as petty and snarky.

I know she doesn't like Biden. She's been sniping at him in print since 2002, and in her 2003 book she suggested he shouldn't even be given credit for the Violence Against Women Act, shouldn't be viewed as helping women, because she disagreed with him on bankruptcies.

This is what she wrote about him in 2003, as explained in a Mother Jones article about their "feud" as the magazine calls it, which Warren started:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/02/the-2020-race-could-revive-a-bitter-feud-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren/

She took on Biden again in The Two-Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers & Fathers Are Going Broke, the best-selling 2003 book she co-authored with her daughter, Amelia Warren Tyagi. “Women’s issues are not just about childbearing or domestic violence,” they wrote. “More women with children will search for a bankruptcy lawyer than will seek subsidized day care. And in a statistic with special significance for Senator Biden, more women will be victimized by predatory lenders than will seek protection from an abusive husband or boyfriend.”

Warren and Tyagi continued, “The point is not to discredit other worthy causes or to pit one disadvantaged group against another. Nor would we suggest that battered women deserve less help or that subsidized day care is unimportant. The point is simply that family economics should not be left to giant corporations and paid lobbyists, and senators like Joe Biden should not be allowed to sell out women in the morning and be heralded as their friend in the evening.”

Think about that. She resented Biden having received any praise for VAWA.

Despite which he's been fair to her -- much more fair than she's been to him.

I posted an OP yesterday about Jared Bernstein and Austan Goolsbee backing up what Biden said about his role in getting the bill passed that created CFPB.

Warren should give Biden credit. Passing legislation is a team effort. Everyone knows that. But I'm guessing that after so many years of apparent animus toward him, she finds it all but impossible to give him credit. It's apparently galling to her that CFPB would probably never have become a reality, rather than a plan or pipe dream, without his help.

If she had at least acknowledged his help rather than trying to make it sound as if she got CFPB passed by herself when she first started talking about it -- and she was offering that as a counter to what he'd achieved, and she threw in a comment about some Democrats opposing it which could easily have been misread as suggesting he'd opposed it (I don't know whether that was intentional or not, but at that point she should definitely have pointed out that the bill had had Biden's support) -- there would have been no exchange like the one too many people are overreacting to.

Instead, she came across very badly.

I lost a lot of respect for her.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. It is news to me

that you had a lot of respect for her.

It has not been evident from your posts about her.

*******
So it was petty snark to credit President Obama for what he did?

[highplainsdem]

13. No, it was petty and snarky not to acknowledge Biden's help. Whether or not she likes it,

there probably would have been no CFPB without his help getting Dodd-Frank passed.

I trust Goolsbee and Bernstein on this.

Biden's ability to get votes for important legislation has never received the attention it deserves.

[BlueMTexpat]

14. Please see response #11! eom

[highplainsdem]

16. Saw it. Disagree with it. I thought Warren came across as more paronizing.

[BlueMTexpat]

18. We will strongly agree to

disagree.

[whathehell]

61. "Petty and snarky'?...Biden YELLED at her, ffs

He was over the top and out of line.

[cwydro]

48. Thank you and spot on.

[floppyboo]

21. I find Warren's criticisms very much on point.

"The point is simply that family economics should not be left to giant corporations and paid lobbyists, and senators like Joe Biden should not be allowed to sell out women in the morning and be heralded as their friend in the evening."

This, taken together with the crime bill criticisms from many turned-on voters (and yes, Anita Hill will make a come-back) makes one really shake one's head that he has dared to run at all.

But perhaps that's the whole point: Joe can stand strong despite it all. Is that why he's so trusted? I really don't get it.

Of course he's better than Trump. But, hopefully it won't be Trump he's running against.

[highplainsdem]

83. By the time Warren wrote that, she had worked for Dow when they were being

sued by women harmed by their breast implants:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dow-breast-implant-case-spotlights-elizabeth-warrens-work-helping-big-corporations-navigate-bankruptcies/2019/07/15/06b0d676-82fc-11e9-95a9-e2c830afe24f_story.html



And although she criticized Biden for representing businesses in the state where he was a senator, she did the same thing later, as this 2015 Time magazine article explained:


https://time.com/3695581/elizabeth-warren-medical-device-lobbyists-obamacare/

Warren took to the floor of the Senate on Jan. 29 to unveil a bill she said would act as a kind of multi-million dollar “swear jar” for pharmaceutical companies that break the law, penalizing them when they get caught and using the funds to supplement scientific research. With the folksy delivery that has made her a favorite of progressives across the country, she said that powerful, moneyed lobbyists had opposed the bill, but that her message to them and their big business bosses was, “If they don’t want to put a dollar in the swear jar, then stop swearing.”

What Warren didn’t say was that her bill has a loophole in it for medical device manufacturers. Those companies, which make everything from latex gloves to Magnetic Resonance Imaging machines, would be exempt from her proposed penalties unless they also make drugs. At the same time, her bill explicitly ensures that the so-called “medtech” companies would benefit from the research dollars that her “swear jar” would generate.

Warren is widely seen as the defender of everyday Americans against the scourge of business interests that she says manipulate Washington, rig regulation and fuel corporate welfare. But when it comes to the medical device industry, she sings a different tune, albeit quietly. Since she launched her campaign for the Senate in 2011, Warren has come out in favor several medical device industry priorities, including rewriting Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations, bolstering federal research funding and making permanent certain temporary tax credits for research and development.

Most visibly, she wants to repeal the medical device taxes that help fund President Barack Obama’s signature health reform, the Affordable Care Act. That position has brought her into a surprising, if temporary, alliance on the issue with the new Republican leaders of Congress, who see repeal of the medical device tax as their most likely legislative vehicle to chip away at Obamacare.

All these pro-business positions have not gone unnoticed. “We’ve enjoyed the opportunity to work with Sen. Warren during her tenure in Congress,” says JC Scott, the head of government affairs for the medical device industry’s top lobbyist, AdvaMed. Scott says Warren “certainly has been engaged with a focus on improving the regulatory efficiency” at the Food and Drug Administration, which approves and regulates medical devices, thanks to her position on the agency’s Congressional oversight authority, the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) committee.

In many ways there is nothing extraordinary in Warren’s positions: they are the work of an elected representative ensuring the interests of her constituents. Medical devices are big business in Massachusetts. In 2010, the latest date for which numbers are available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, medical device companies claimed responsibility for more than 23,000 jobs in Massachusetts, 13% of its export economy and $17.6 billion worth of the state’s economy. Warren also represents major academic research institutions that are primary beneficiaries of programs that also benefit the medical device industry. “This is a very powerful industry,” says Paul Thacker, a former medical device and pharmaceutical investigator for the Republican staff of the Senate Finance committee, “And she’s looking out for jobs in her home state.”

[crazytown]

52. "I found Warren's behavior infuriating ... petty and snarky."

Infuriating? Wow, you really don't like her. I am not so emotionally invested in Warren, to be allergic to others. In the exchange in question, Biden was the aggressor, interrupting Warren twice.

[highplainsdem]

82. See reply 81.

[Modern Fictions]

11. "You did a hell of a job in your job" - Patronizing Much?

Patronizing (adjective) - apparently kind or helpful but betraying a feeling of superiority; condescending.

Warren doesn't need anyone's validation for what she did. I'm sure in Biden's mind, as in the minds of many men, he was simply offering a compliment.

But given the dynamic of what occurred before, and the tone of his voice, women know the difference between respectful acknowledgement and a pat on the head.

This was Biden's "likable enough" moment, and it wasn't pretty.

And according to reports I've read, Biden was generally supportive of the CFPB, but no one in Washington recalls him actually whipping any votes. But the tone of his comments suggested that he took some sort of leadership role in the matter.
---
'You Did a Hell of a Job.' Biden's Condescension to Warren at the Debate Sounds Familiar to Professional Women

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/democratic-debate-joe-biden-elizabeth-warren-cfpb-condescending.html

[floppyboo]

22. kick

[spooky3]

31. An article on The Intercept also backs up what

you said. While some people interviewed said positive things about Biden’s support for CPFB, the report could not find evidence that Biden actually produced votes for the bill establishing it.

[highplainsdem]

36. Saw that. I'll take what Goolsbee and Bernstein remember over The Intercept. And btw,

that article does admit a few Republican votes were needed. Two of which, Collins and Snowe, were the Republican senators Biden talked into voting for the stimulus. Although the article says no one recalls him talking to them, I'll again take Goolsbee and Bernstein over The Intercept, which typically attacks Biden.

Neither the stimulus nor the ACA would have passed without Biden's ability to talk some Republicans over to our side. There's no reason to believe the same wasn't true with Dodd-Frank. No matter how much that might bother Warren.

[spooky3]

40. Sorry, I prefer to have evidence. Nt

[highplainsdem]

42. Bernstein's and Goolsbee's statements are evidence, just as much as anyone

else's word. You're just choosing to believe people who minimize Biden's role.

[w4rmaa]

73. Evidence that Biden did nothing memorable to pass it, maybe except for Biden's employees.

So I checked the book "Act of Congress" by Robert Kaiser, the most thorough account of the Dodd-Frank process.

Biden's not listed as a 'key participant,' and the most substantive mention he gets in the book (he's mentioned 3 times) is when he shows up for the signing ceremony.

Link to tweet

[Bradshaw3]

71. Sorry, Goolsbee and Bernstein aren't exactly unbiased

But you'll take their word because, well they support your point of view and constant denigration of Warren.

[OilemFirchen]

78. As opposed, of course, to the totally neutral Intercept...

and their dependable cadre of totally neutral unnamed sources.

[intheflow]

66. That's the moment that jumped out at me.

Talk about being snarky! Passive-aggressive tone, dismissive and demeaning. The whole exchange was Joe trying to gaslight her by taking credit for her work. Just awful.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Better gird your loins. That won't go over well here.

[Peacetrain]

20. Woman here...and if Warren and group are going to fall apart at this.. There

is no way they are ready for the shit storm that will be coming out of the republican camp.. seriously..

[floppyboo]

25. OMG! Fall Apart???? Next, we'll resurrect 'Hysterical'?

I think the Republican info machine will be obliterated by the outrage. It's about time.

[HeartlandProgressive]

26. Woman here too... Biden lost his composure, not Warren.

He raised his voice to the point of almost shouting and hand gestured aggressively.

[Andy823]

27. Funny thing

that's what I said when so many Biden supporters got upset with Harris.

[TidalWave46]

29. I think it's a very flawed tactic they are using in response to the negative press.

Gotta hold onto something. I say this as someone who might be voting for Warren in the primary.

There is a pattern in the primaries. Make a mistake on a major topic, the press runs with it, your surrogates they run with sexist/racist/bigoted etc.

[highplainsdem]

37. +1,000,000

[OldManTarHeel]

41. LOL @ Anyone Thinking that Warren Might Have 'Fallen Apart' . .

Nice try . .

[BlueMTexpat]

76. Exactly!

There are some very closed minds.

[Demsrule86]

80. Exactly, she is not ready. I still believe based on polls that Biden is our nominee.

[DeterDeter]

23. I'm a woman

And have donated to both Warren and Biden at this point (though Biden is ahead now in my donations, I threw some more his way last night), and it didn't bother me. We are going to have some abrasive and terse moments between the candidates that make us uncomfortable, I personally feel like Biden would have said the same things if Warren were a male.

I'll also add that I never got sexism from the "likable enough" moment from Obama either.

[aidbo]

32. "You did a good job at your job."

[DeterDeter]

33. And?

People patronize their opponents all of the time in these debates. It doesn't mean that the source is sexism.

[Politicub]

24. It was a bizarre moment and made me uncomfortable.

I hope Biden learns from it. I doubt he wants to be known as the Zelig of politics.

[TidalWave46]

30. The sexism here is people acting like the little woman got beat up.

Warren can handle a tough debate. Women can handle tough debates. There is an unspoken insinuation in this whole argument that women are weak and should be treated differently. It's bullshit.

[emulatorloo]

35. Agreed, Warren is strong and tough as nails.

That’s one of the many reasons she’s on my shortlist.

[awesomerwb1]

34. This is my first presidential primary on this site

and the hysterics are hilarious. Half of the posters are not as hysterical against trump as they are against other candidates.

And this twitter lady "blacked out"?

It takes votes to pass anything. If Biden did work as a whip on the floor to get votes to pass it....why not throw him a small bone as well?
That seemed petty from Warren if that was the case.

[highplainsdem]

39. See my reply 36 above. Dodd-Frank needed a few Republican votes, two from senators that Biden had

previously talked into voting for the stimulus. (And one of the three Republicans Biden had talked into voting for the stimulus later switched parties, due to Biden's lobbying him to do so, which gave Obama the super majority needed to pass the ACA.)

Unless anyone here really believes that Biden wouldn't have made the same effort for Dodd-Frank and the CFPB part of it, which he supported, then it's only rational to accept that he did the same thing for Dodd-Frank and so he should be given some credit.

Plus Austan Goolsbee and Jared Bernstein, who were there, have tweeted to back up what he said during the debate about his help getting the bill passed.

[MD shmoo]

44. Highlights a core weakness of Warren

Sure it's not a good look for Biden, but Trump did worse to Hillary and Obama sometimes was dismissive of Hillary. Didn't stop Trump and probably wouldn't stop Biden - if he loses it will be due to his own flaws and limitations rather than being "mean" to Warren.

It does however point to a key weakness of Warren - having lots of plans and thinking that coming up with an idea is what's important is how a naive college professor thinks. Lots of people in government have plans and good ideas and a POTUS can easily hire dozens if not hundreds of them. Someone who can actually get those ideas translated into political reality is another thing altogether and Biden has demonstrated that skill a hundredfold over Warren. That being said, this is something both Warren and Biden can ponder following this exchange.

“There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit.”

― Ronald Reagan

[peggysue2]

64. Well said and without rancor

Surprise, surprise. None of our candidates are perfect. If we get locked into our love bubbles, every word and comment becomes a major deal. This last debate exposed some fault lines in Elizabeth Warren. Joe Biden brings his own baggage having been in politics for decades. But he also brings a long record of getting things done, knowing how to push for votes.

Ideas + action. We need both to exact change.

[Skya Rhen]

47. The lesson I learned was that Repub votes were needed for EW's plan. She couldn't get them - JB did.

Enough said...

[w4rmaa]

53. According to everybody who actually helped whip votes to pass the CFPB, Biden did NOT help.

When Warren was asked to respond, a look of anger washed over her face. She paused, and said, very deliberately, “I am deeply grateful to President Obama, who fought so hard to make sure that agency was passed into law, and I am deeply grateful to every single person who fought for it and who helped pass it into law.”

Biden, however, was not one of those people, according to numerous sources who were involved in the fight over the CFPB’s creation. He did, however, offer Warren a verbal pat on the head at the end of the exchange on Tuesday. “You did a hell of a job in your job,” he said.

“Thank you,” Warren deadpanned.
…
But the insistence that Biden had anything whatsoever to do with rallying support for the CFPB in the Senate left many other people closely involved scratching their heads.

“In all honesty, that was news to me last night,” said Jim Manley, who was communications director for Reid at the time. A senator closely involved in the fight, who didn’t want to speak on the record, said that he never heard from Biden. A former Senate staffer who worked on the bill told us, about Biden’s claim, “I needed a drink when I heard that.” They added that Biden and his staff were not involved in any Hill meetings on the subject or engaged in the legislative process in any fashion.

Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., was the CFPB statute’s lead author in the House. Asked what Biden did to win votes for the CFPB, Miller told The Intercept and the American Prospect: “Nothing.”

He elaborated on Twitter: “I had no contact with Biden and cannot recall ever hearing his name mentioned by anyone,” he said.
…
Steele did not find Biden’s name among the list of key participants in the crafting of the bill, he said on Twitter. There were just three references to Biden in the book, the most substantial of which involves him showing up for the signing ceremony.
Joe Biden’s Mysterious Claim That He Whipped Votes for the CFPB

[Skya Rhen]

62. Jared Bernstein: Biden fought hard to get votes for Dodd/Frank & to make sure Sen Warren's idea

for a CFPB came to fruition.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[w4rmaa]

72. Dodd/Frank is not the CFPB. And I found this as a reply to Biden's former employee:

So I checked the book "Act of Congress" by Robert Kaiser, the most thorough account of the Dodd-Frank process.

Biden's not listed as a 'key participant,' and the most substantive mention he gets in the book (he's mentioned 3 times) is when he shows up for the signing ceremony.

Link to tweet

[BlueMTexpat]

77. You are wasting

Your time with some here. Unfortunately.

[ecstatic]

50. Nothing burger. 😫

At least for those who don't hate Biden.

Seriously? He can't win. If he doesn't attack, he's called weak. If he does, he's no longer lovable.

[LakeArenal]

58. Agree.

If the worst you can say about Biden is patronizing and the worst thing you say about Warren is snarky... well geez, that’s some rough and tumble.

I hope that’s the worst thing the GOP comes up with cuz we’ll be winning for sure.

Oh and “tempers lost” ... really.

Gonna happen. “Tempers lost” right here talking about it.

[snowybirdie]

54. This one post and it's comments

are bordering on the bashing other democrats rule in DU. Love your candidate, support your candidate, donate to your candidate, but please don't give the tRumpeters ammunition. They ALL are good candidates who are far superior to the person currently in the WH. Most of us will vote for whoever is our candidate.

[bluewater]

74. Um, no.

It's back!

[UncleNoel]

55. I am not a woman, but I saw this differently.

Joe jumped in when she failed to give him credit where credit is due. He got applause.

Liz cutely replied by thanking the Obama administration. She got laughter.

In the end, Joe said she did a good job, and she said thank you.

I thought it was perfectly appropriate repartee.

[w4rmaa]

60. Biden did "Nothing." to win votes for the CFPB, according to the lead author. He was due no credit.

When Warren was asked to respond, a look of anger washed over her face. She paused, and said, very deliberately, “I am deeply grateful to President Obama, who fought so hard to make sure that agency was passed into law, and I am deeply grateful to every single person who fought for it and who helped pass it into law.”

Biden, however, was not one of those people, according to numerous sources who were involved in the fight over the CFPB’s creation. He did, however, offer Warren a verbal pat on the head at the end of the exchange on Tuesday. “You did a hell of a job in your job,” he said.

“Thank you,” Warren deadpanned.
…
But the insistence that Biden had anything whatsoever to do with rallying support for the CFPB in the Senate left many other people closely involved scratching their heads.

“In all honesty, that was news to me last night,” said Jim Manley, who was communications director for Reid at the time. A senator closely involved in the fight, who didn’t want to speak on the record, said that he never heard from Biden. A former Senate staffer who worked on the bill told us, about Biden’s claim, “I needed a drink when I heard that.” They added that Biden and his staff were not involved in any Hill meetings on the subject or engaged in the legislative process in any fashion.

Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., was the CFPB statute’s lead author in the House. Asked what Biden did to win votes for the CFPB, Miller told The Intercept and the American Prospect: “Nothing.”

He elaborated on Twitter: “I had no contact with Biden and cannot recall ever hearing his name mentioned by anyone,” he said.
…
Steele did not find Biden’s name among the list of key participants in the crafting of the bill, he said on Twitter. There were just three references to Biden in the book, the most substantial of which involves him showing up for the signing ceremony.
Joe Biden’s Mysterious Claim That He Whipped Votes for the CFPB

[emulatorloo]

67. The Intercept said there was no Russian interference in 2016. They burned a whistleblower

named Reality Winner and now she is in prison because of their carelessness.. Mr Greenwald is a frequent friendly guest on Tucker Carlson’s show on Fox News.

They are not credible. After the actions I listed above I wouldn’t believe them if their tongues came notarized.

Of course YMMV.

Welcome to DU! It is a great website and I’m glad you joined us.

[Kind of Blue]

68. Welcome to DU!

Thanks very much for the excerpt and the link, w4rmaa.

[w4rmaa]

70. You are welcome.

Biden's supporters are all over a lot of threads "attacking the messenger", I am noticing.

[Kind of Blue]

84. Yeah. I need a drink, too, sometimes, as Manley who worked

on the bill said Attacking the messenger takes getting used to.

[StarfishSaver]

75. We also notice how differently it's characterized when women and people of color push back AND

how differently some people respond to women and people of color when we call out the discrepancy.

[Demsrule86]

79. I am a woman and I didn't...you can't have it both ways...Biden doesn't have to cater to Warren

because she is woman. I am surprised you would even suggest that.

[redqueen]

85. My impression

Biden's comment seemed to be belittling her (did a good job)

Warren seemed to be showing her teeth when she should, and not overly much (e.g. the back & forth btw Beto & Pete).