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TygrBright

(20,733 posts)
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 03:00 PM Oct 2019

Talking Taxes

Why is this post in Democratic Primaries?

Because most if not all of our candidates have proposed ideas and policy changes that will have tax implications. And the tax implications of any proposal are likely to be used by both primary opponents and the Massive Lie Machine (MLM) as an oppositional strategy.

And because Americans have been very effectively trained to place a strong negative filter over the very concept of taxation, and equally effectively trained to swallow misleading-- to use the kindest term-- information on the topic of taxes.

To be fair, that training wasn't all that difficult because taxation can be (and, in America, IS) an enormously-- and probably needlessly-- complex topic. With that in mind, I'll start with a disclaimer: I'm not going to try and talk comprehensively about taxation and the implications of any specific proposal from any specific candidate.

But I DO encourage DUers, especially any/all of us who will be involved in campaigning, discussing policy issues, refuting bullshit from the MLM, etc., to learn as much as possible about taxation as an issue area, and here's a pretty decent starting place with a lot of good, accessible, readily-understandable discussion and analysis: Tax Policy Center.

With that out of the way, let's go straight for belling the cat:

Yes, taxes will go up.

This is actually a good thing, for all of us, even those of us who will end up "paying more taxes". But that's a damn' hard thing to convince people of.

And the admission: Yes, we'll experience some hardship.

Almost everything we will need more tax revenue for will, ultimately, pay us back for that hardship, and then some. Both conceptually and in real, pragmatic, quality-of-life terms. (And yes, that does include everyone up to the top 1/10th of the top 1%, who will indeed experience benefits but won't notice because their wealth has insulated them from the costs of living in a decaying infrastructure and devolving commons, and they no longer have the capacity to value 'living in a better society' in personal terms. Fuck 'em anyway.)

Start by yanking the clown mask off the holy doctrine of the Vaunted Private Sector as the best method getting a bigger bang for the public buck:

* Because private sector business is such a paragon of efficiency and responsiveness to market conditions, right? Excuse me while I bust a gut laughing. 'nuff said, really. No, really... Do your own damn' homework.

* Because the private sector can do things so much cheaper than the government, with all those regulations and public employee unions, right? Carefully restrain your laughter and point out that cheap-assing the labor force only works if you don't ALSO have to build in big fat executive salaries and a constant quarter-over-quarter dividend growth for your shareholders. And a cheap-assed labor force ultimately costs the taxpayer MORE than a well-trained, well-compensated public sector workforce, in public safety net benefits.

* Because Big Government as a provider of large institutional services is historically a sewer of procurement corruption, featherbedding, nepotism and other costly administrative work practices, and the Vaunted Private Sector runs a lean, mean, efficient machine with no tolerance for that crap. Again, let's try hard not to bust a gut laughing, and point out any of the wonderful "privatized" institutions that are doing such a great job, like the privatized prisons, the mercenary auxiliaries replacing various military functions, the unblemished stellar record of charter schools and for-profit higher education... well, the list goes on and on.

Essentially, we're talking about rebuilding the kind of public-private partnerships that electrified rural America between the wars, built the Interstate Highway system, sent astronauts to the moon, protected consumers from exploitation and recklessness in the financial industry, sparked the development of the Internet and dozens of other amazing advances that took us to the top of the world's lists relating to things like life expectancy, infant mortality, etc. Until we tossed it all over to the Vaunted Private Sector and started the downward slide under Ronald Reagan.

So, yeah, that's gonna take tax revenue. Under Democratic leadership, the methods of taxation will be designed as progressive. That's not an ideological term in tax lingo. In taxation terms, "progressive" taxation is simply designed to distribute the burden of taxation on equitable, rather than equal, terms.

Wait, what? "Equitable rather than equal?"



Flat-taxers talk about how "fair" it is that "everyone pays the same".

Progressive-taxes talk about how the effects of taxation are proportional for all.

Democrats tend to be progressive taxers, which means that the actual effects of "higher taxes" will be distributed so that someone at the most financially vulnerable and needy end of the spectrum may not perceive any additional burden, someone in the middle might have to save longer to buy a new vehicle or economize on entertainment and clothing, and someone at the upper end of the spectrum might have to settle for a thirty-foot yacht instead of a sixty-foot yacht.

Personally, I don't much care for the several years-- maybe a decade or more-- of belt-tightening that higher taxes will impose on me. We're thinking of retiring, and that will complicate things as well.

BUT....

(and this is a BIG but...)

I am really looking forward to what will happen to my quality of life-- and even more, to my daughter's and my grandson's quality of life-- as the investments in higher taxation begin to pay off.

Yes, a better health care system that involves a public payer source will be costly. But it will ultimately return so much of the money I'm currently paying on insurance, co-pays, out-of-pocket for medications, inflated prices to keep health-sector investors and venture capitalists getting their dividends, inflated prices that fund the marketing and advertising and executive salaries costs of the Vaunted Private Sector providers that I'm confident I'll end up with more money in my bank account. I'll enjoy better access and better quality of services in most of the essentials, and maybe experience a little aggro or some waiting occasionally.

I'll take that.

Yes, a better criminal justice system that returns the full spectrum of services to the public sector will be costly. But once we remove the incentives to lock up millions for minor and nonviolent offenses, so that private prison providers can make a profit, I expect costs to go down substantially. Yes, we'll have to invest, first.

And those investment successes will be replicated across dozens of institutional sectors and services as we return to ensuring clean, safe drinking water, sustainable and safe food production, efficient and environmentally-friendly transportation and communications grids, clean power generation, and so much more. Those "investment dividends" will be distributed to me and you and ALL of us, as the investors through our taxes. And CREATE GOOD JOBS DOING IT.

We will end up living in a cleaner, safer, happier society with better opportunities for our children and grandchildren.

Yes, we'll be "paying more taxes". But we WON'T MISS THE MONEY, because we won't have to be constantly plugging holes and preparing for disasters without a safety net and trying to save for investments in the future that will be built in for us and our children- dignified retirement, affordable higher education, available health care.

Yes, we'll have to invest our higher taxes and they won't pay off immediately. But they will pay off quickly, if we hang in there and keep building for our children's future.

So no, I'm not afraid of higher taxes, and you shouldn't be either. No one should be.

Except the people who've been getting obscenely wealthy stealing our well-being from us all along, of course.

helpfully,
Bright



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
4 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Talking Taxes (Original Post) TygrBright Oct 2019 OP
You said it: they've done a very good job brainwashing people on this subject sandensea Oct 2019 #1
Thanks for your O.P. PETRUS Oct 2019 #2
Taxation should be progressive and provide essential services..what a concept to Dems? stuffmatters Oct 2019 #3
Great post. Turin_C3PO Oct 2019 #4
 

sandensea

(21,526 posts)
1. You said it: they've done a very good job brainwashing people on this subject
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 03:15 PM
Oct 2019

To many in the middle class, even a $10 a month increase in taxes - like Clinton's in '93 - is seen as tantamount to a Stalin-style seizure of home, car, savings, and that little studio the guy keeps near the college for his extramarital goings-on.

(and then, they lose it all in the next GOPee financial crisis - but that's too much for them to wrap their heads around, so they don't mind)

To say nothing of a more substantial tax hike - even if it's in exchange for doing away with those worthless, $1,000 a-month premiums that give us next to nothing in return.

Such are the times we live in.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

stuffmatters

(2,574 posts)
3. Taxation should be progressive and provide essential services..what a concept to Dems?
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 04:17 PM
Oct 2019

What's the deal at our debates with the MSM and many of the candidates' insistence upon that Republican framing of the sensible pragmatists vs the crazy dreamers?

Thank you for your post,TB. You make such important points.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
4. Great post.
Thu Oct 17, 2019, 05:22 PM
Oct 2019

I hate when Dems fall for the Reagan-era framing of taxes (and other issues) as an inherently bad thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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