Bernie Sanders to black man: Be respectful so you won't get shot in the back of your head.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

Black male student: What advice would you give me if I was your son about being stopped by a cop.
Bernie Sanders: Be respectful so you won't get shot in the back of your head. Make sure the cameras are on.

Link to tweet

"I would do my best to identify who that police officer in a polite way, ask him or her for their name, I would respect what they are doing so that you don't get shot in the back of the head, but I would also be very mindful of the fact that as a nation, we have got to hold police officers accountable for the actions that they commit...make sure if possible that police officer's camera is on."

Body cameras don't reduce police violence.

[mr_lebowski]

1. My Dog, I hate this forum so f***ing much ...

I wish it would go away.

This ain't too different from the advice I'd give the kid.

I mean THE ACTUAL QUOTE ... not the bullshit headline.

[PatrickforO]

21. LOL, I have a friend on here who describes this as 'that wretched hive of

scum and villainy' after the Mos Eisley scene in Star Wars. Funny.

That said, since I'm a white guy, if a black kid asked me that question, I'd have to say, well, if you're my son you are white, so I'd just tell you to be polite. However, if I were your father and I were black, I'd have to tell you about the rules around escalation of force, and I'm honestly not sure where I'd go from there, because as a white man, I've never had to worry about getting gunned down by a cop.

I guess that's the most genuine answer. Because I've never had to have this talk with my son.

[questionseverything]

25. you must be wealthy then

if you have no fear of being prosecuted for "nothing"

[PatrickforO]

26. Gosh, I could do without the snark, thank you. I was being genuine. If you don't like genuine, then

sorry.

And don't make assumptions about me whatsoever. You don't get to do that.

Ever.

[questionseverything]

34. i was being genuine

and I stand by my assumption

if you do not have to warn your kids to be careful around cops you must feel protected and GENERALLY that protection is money

[thesquanderer]

141. I think a poor black kid is more likely to have a bad run-in with a cop than a poor white kid.

It's more about color than money. There is indeed white privilege. It's not all just economics.

[PatrickforO]

217. Indeed. I agree with that.

Someone on this thread mistakenly thinks I must be 'rich' to give the type of advice I would have, but I have rarely in my life had much more than enough, and sometimes not enough, for what that's worth.

But I'm white. There were a couple times when I was a teen and got stopped that cops thought about pulling their sticks on me, roughing me up, but that never happened. That was probably because way back when, during the tail end days of the 'generation gap,' I wore my hair long and dressed in a rather scruffy way.

I do remember once I got stopped in a blue collar neighborhood and I attempted to argue with a cop and he put his hand on his stick. I got the message and became very polite and docile - as my own father had taught me to be when dealing with cops.

What you said about white privilege is the truth, because my life would have likely been ruined by a criminal record had I not been white suburban.

[questionseverything]

237. i do not deny any of that

what I am saying is maybe we should ban together so cops do not murder anyone?

[hack89]

207. I am not wealthy and have never worried about the cops

But I am white and that is what makes all the difference in the world.

[PatrickforO]

218. Yep.

Me too.

[brush]

85. That is what Bernie should've said. Bringing up the spectre of the young man getting shot in the...

is just ill advised. He just doesn't seem to be in touch with issues POCs have.

[George II]

88. He should have simply said that he wasn't equipped to answer that question, not being black himself.

[Bluepinky]

126. Had he said what you suggested he say...

you and the same people would have criticized him even more. So tired of the Bernie distortions and hate. Doesn’t it ever get old? (You’re not the only one).

Have noticed over the last few years that it’s okay to trash Bernie on DU, but not okay to criticize some other candidates. Completely unfair.

[MrsCoffee]

133. Well Bernie seems to have no problems bashing Dems, so that victim card is hollow.

Also, the other candidates have been Democrats for more than five minutes and plan to stay in the party (except maybe Tulsi). Bernie already filed to run as an Independent in his next election.

From calling for Obama to be primaried and saying that Clinton wasn’t qualified to be president to his calling Russian interference a distraction and voting no on sanctions, Bernie has has more than invited all the criticism he gets.

[betsuni]

143. +1

[Bluepinky]

159. A few distortions, but okay.

He was the only candidate who significantly beat Trump in head to head polls but was treated unfairly by the DNC. A lot of his campaign issues ended up being endorsed by other Democrats and as part of the Democratic platform. Whether he calls himself an Independent, a Democrat, or a Democratic Socialist, his fight has always been against income inequality.

Just for the record, he has filed to run as a Democrat in the 2020 Presidential election. In his statements about the Russian sanctions, he was in favor of the sanctions against Russia but not those against Iran, which were in the same bill. He voted against the bill because sanctions against Iran were included in the same bill.

I can’t believe he’s still being trashed three years after the last election. He’s not my first choice this time around, but the more unfair criticism he gets, the more his supporters want to defend him. It’s not good to continue to sow discord. This is a divisive issue so why continue fighting it?

[Cha]

235. Excellent, MrsCoffee!

Thank You!

[KPN]

181. Thank you.

[thesquanderer]

142. What an awful answer that would have been.

Seriously, you would have liked that answer?

Why would a person of color or a female EVER vote for a white male candidate, if instead of displaying some understanding of their unique issues, the candidate answered, "I can't really speak to that issue, because I'm not..." black/female/whatever.

[stonecutter357]

174. why would come to a place that is 'that wretched hive of scum and villainy' ?

[PatrickforO]

219. It's a joke.

Joke.

[treestar]

214. There are some videos out there where whites get shot

IMO the main idea is surrender immediately. Challenge a problem in the courts. You can win a case there, but not out in the field. Once you run away, you've escalated to a much more dangerous situation. That should eliminate the majority of shootings.

[cwydro]

51. Pretty sure you can trash forums.

Just a thought.

[mr_lebowski]

59. I maybe could, but feel like I have to kinda 'keep an eye' on what's going on ...

The sheer barrage of distorted headlines I see on this forum is distressing as hell ...

What the hell happened to 'use this forum to build your candidate of choice' instead of relentlessly tearing down everyone else's?

That particular 'model' ... is clearly way the fuck out the window ...

I guarantee our political enemies (foreign and domestic) look at this forum with great glee ... it's a veritable goldmine of free info on how to divide Democrats.

[TwilightZone]

66. 'use this forum to build your candidate of choice'

It's never been that. This is what it's always been, and it was actually a lot worse in 2016.

Before this forum existed, GD was infested. That's why Primaries was created in the first place - to put all the animosity in one place and give the other forums a break.

As others noted, there's nothing forcing you to participate in the forum. This is what it's going to be like until the primaries are over.

[cwydro]

131. Good point.

But sadly, it seems to be this way every primary year.

I wish it weren’t.

[redqueen]

155. I doubt any political enemies care all that much

about what DUers are squabbling about. There's no dirt here that's not discussed even more viciously on dozens of other sites.

That said, this place can get pretty bad with the pointless squabbling. Best to just say your piece and trash the thread, because as I'm sure you've noticed, there are some who don't just revel in the fighting the first time, but will go back and kick their favorite fights back up to the top if they get bored / if no new dirt's available.

There's a reason to discuss possible weaknesses in the GE, but it's real easy to tell who's doing that vs who's actively trying to bash candidates / childishly antagonize supporters (and I can't for the life of me figure out why that's still a favorite pastime for far too many).

[HerbChestnut]

92. Thank you.

[Celerity]

121. +10000

[mcar]

2. I just read this on Twitter

Link to tweet

?s=19

HBCU Student asks @BernieSanders, “If I were your son, what advice would you give to me the next time I’m pulled over by a police officer”?

Bernie: “Identify who the police officer is - and I would respect what they are doing so that you don’t get shot in the back of the head”.

[George II]

3. I can't even.................

[bluewater]

13. Posting a stereotype gif of a comedic actor seems inappropriate and demeaning.

Especially in a discussion of police violence against African Americans.

[George II]

15. That's your opinion.

[bluewater]

16. Indeed it is.

[Skya Rhen]

98. No, it's not demeaning or inappropriate.

[sheshe2]

106. ...

[RandiFan1290]

138. They think it's funny

It's is disgusting and racist.

[dsc]

4. I am no fan of Sanders but literally dozens and dozens

of famous and not so famous black people have said they tell their kids the very same thing.

[questionseverything]

6. i am not black and i warn my kids the same way

I tell em, no quick moves, keep ur hands were they can see them .kiss their asses

on and on

I honestly do not understand what is incorrect with his advise

[thesquanderer]

14. What's wrong with it is that Sanders said it.

Because there's a contingent here who pretty much thinks that anything he says or does is wrong.

[PatrickforO]

24. Sadly, this is true. There are about ten people on here who genuinely loathe Sanders.

And yet, we're all talking about single payer because he broke the silence, and we're all talking about global warming because in '16 he was asked what he felt is the biggest threat to America and he said, 'global warming.' Not that he's the ONLY factor in elevating it to national consciousness. But he was A factor.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. A HUGE factor... in promoting so many progressive issues. Thankfully, most peeps

here appreciate what an asset Bernie has been to the Democratic Party!! Those who don't are stuck in the past and need to move on.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

87. Have you ever heard of the Dingells, John Sr., John Jr., and Debbie? They started talking...

...about "Medicare for All" (not by that name) since 1943, that was 76 years ago.

[KPN]

183. What an absurdly irrelevant comment to make here.

“My dog” as mr.lebowski said above.

[George II]

185. Other than to post a gratuitous personal attack, what's your point? What's "ridiculous" about it?

[George II]

186. Quick edit I see. Here's what you originally said: "What a ridiculous comment." Why did you edit?

[KPN]

187. Lol. No, quick response to a comment I see.

What’s up with that?

[George II]

190. Well, since you responded to me the "My Posts" tab turns yellow, advising that I had a response.

[George II]

189. What IS relevant, if you followed the discussion, is that someone stated that thanks to....

....Sanders we're now talking about single payer, when in fact we've been talking about it for decades, all they way back to the 1940s.

That is certainly a relevant comment in response. And I didn't attack the person I responded to, as you did to me.

[KPN]

192. We? That's not true. Some ... and actually not

all that many. Bernie’s been talking about it for at least the 20+ years i’ve Been aware of him. Your comment was meant only to diminish Sander’s role in building awareness and support. That’s an unnecessary and therefore irrelevant comment.

[George II]

195. Here's the statement to which I responded. Yes, it was stated "we"...

"we're all talking about single payer because he broke the silence"

That is false, this issue has been under discussion for many many years, and "we" started talking about it LONG before he ever did. He was only 2 years old when John Dingell first introduced it on the floor of the House.

You have NO idea of what my comment was meant to do, but in fact it was meant to correct the record and give credit where credit is due.

[PatrickforO]

188. Well, sure. Let's have a bit of history. In concept, a national health care plan dates clear back

to Teddy Roosevelt. It was in the Democratic Party platform in 68 when we nominated the Hube to run against Nixon after Bobby had been killed.

In 72 it was 'a system of universal National Health Insurance which covers all Americans with a comprehensive set of benefits including preventive medicine, mental and emotional disorders, and complete protection against catastrophic costs, and in which the rule of free choice for both provider and consumer is protected.'

In 76, Carter said, 'We need a comprehensive national health insurance system with universal and mandatory coverage' that would paid for by a combination of mandatory employer outlays and public tax dollars.

In 1980, it was 'a comprehensive, universal national health insurance plan.'

In 1984, we backed off even further with Mondale opposing the snake Reagan. We said, "The states must be the cornerstone of our health care policies,” and that the federal government would simply “assure that health care is available to all who need help at a cost we can afford."

In 88, the party platform promoted “a national health program providing federal coordination and leadership” but focused on restraining costs.

In 1992, Clinton defeated HW on a platform that maintained that all Americans should have universal access to quality, affordable health care—not as a privilege, but as a right.

However, after the policy defeat the Clintons experienced after Hillary failed in trying to create a national healthcare system in 93, we backed off again in 1996 to being 'committed to ensuring that Americans have access to affordable, high-quality health care.'

In 2000, the platform evolved to call for us to "take concrete, specific, realistic steps to move toward the day when every American has affordable health coverage” in a “step-by-step” approach. OK, 'all deliberate speed' is how I read that.

Then, in 2004, as we fell prey to the constant Republican screech about how taxes are always bad, the platform changed to say that we want to "help businesses cope with the skyrocketing cost of health care by reforming our health care system and cutting taxes to help small businesses pay for health insurance."

In 2008, the platform stated, "We believe that quality and affordable health care is a basic right” and promised “every American man, woman, and child be guaranteed affordable, comprehensive health care.” On the question of who would run the health care system, however, the Democrats steered clear of a government-run structure, stating: “Health care should be a shared responsibility between employers, workers, insurers, providers and government.”

Now, in 2008 I did observe Hillary Clinton during a debate refusing to answer the direct question about whether she saw healthcare as a right or a privilege. She was also famously quoted as saying, "Give me something I can believe in," when a group of doctors visited her to advocate single payer.

In 2012, Obama won again, and this time the platform was, "We believe accessible, affordable, high quality health care is part of the American promise, that Americans should have the security that comes with good health care, and that no one should go broke because they get sick."

Finally, in 2016, the platform said that Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Then, it positioned the party to "fight to make sure every American has access to quality, affordable health care.” And, as I maintain, that change can be credited to Bernie's people on the platform committee to try and smooth over the massive rift in the party that happened during that primary. You and I were on opposite sides back then, if you'll recall.

OK, so now that we've looked at the history of the Democratic platform, we see that Americans are groaning under the tyranny of a for-profit system whose interest directly conflicts with providing the healthcare they need. Along with climate change, this issue must be addressed. Public sentiment has turned in favor of both.

First, here's the source of the history above: https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20190815.209963/full/

As to the Dingells and Wasserman-Schultz, that may be, but they aren't national figures in the same way that a presidential candidate is, and certainly did not represent the party platform, as you have seen above.

Now we are once again fighting the good fight. Shall we have people over profit, or profit over people? Medicare for all is good policy because it would in fact cut costs, particularly of middle class people like me and my wife, who pay in a normal year around $19-20K for crummy, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays. If we both have to be hospitalized in a single year, for God's sake, we have to cough up $6K. That's supposedly our 'maximum' out-of-pocket, but there is a loophole clause our HMO is inserting this year that states that some types of 'services' may not be included in the maximum. This HMO counts things like hip replacement as 'elective surgery' so they can cut costs by denying post-operative physical therapy.

I cannot say that I love Bernie, but I can say that I love the policies he introduced in 2016, and that he has fleshed out now. What I do love is his advocacy that this nation do the right thing for once and put people over profit.

We both know, George, that there are millions of dollars lined up against even a public option. Big pharma and for-profit health insurance will be fighting tooth and nail with all the dark money they can put forward. We already see this with the media focusing on asking Warren the gotcha question about raising middle class taxes.

Other posts give my counter argument in more detail, but in a nutshell, yes, taxes will rise, but people will no longer have premiums, deductibles, copays and coinsurance, so costs would actually go down. If she answered it like this, though, you know as well as I that ALL the media would trumpet out is 'Warren will raise taxes on the middle class!' The media is, after all, corporate-owned.

Of course, Medicare for All has the additional MORAL advantage of covering the 39 million Americans who don't have healthcare coverage at all as we speak here, now. And the additional 38 million who are considered 'under-insured.'

I mean, the ONLY reason we're even having this debate is fear of the dark money from pharma and health insurance corporations that will poison the debate. We're going to have to raise taxes anyway, and you know this too. The 2017 tax cut for billionaire parasites and corporations was the very height of fiscal irresponsibility, and the next recession will be a doozy, so our party will be forced into raising taxes at a time when the economy is in recession. But we will have to.

And, we will have to go against the very powerful MIC also, because we simply do not need to spend $733 billion on war, and we do not need 200,000 people on the ground in 167 countries. We don't. Silly me, I'd rather have healthcare than a space force.

I am supporting Warren now, by the way, because I did not like that many Bernie supporters refused to back Clinton when she was the nominee. That's not how we should roll. Plus, I think Warren is a bit more well rounded. Certainly from the standpoint of an economist, her policies are great, but she also has that sensibility to individuals Bernie seems to lack.

So there you have it, because I thought you deserved a thoughtful response.

[George II]

191. Thank you. I'm not sure of the full history, but the Dingells (John Sr. in particular) have been...

...credited for being the first to formally introduce a form of universal health care on the floor of the House in 1943 and just about every year since then - first Sr., then Jr., then Debbie when she replaced Jr. in the House.

[PatrickforO]

193. I did not know that - about Dingell Sr.

You know, in terms of history, after WWII, many of the big unions negotiated good healthcare plans for their members and so opposed a national plan.

Now, though, most of those unions have been pretty thoroughly busted, except for the public ones. The firefighter's union is fighting now against M4A because its leadership seems to feel it is in the best interest of the union and its continuity to oppose a single payer plan.

But, honestly, most of the people I talk to would eagerly give up their employer-provided coverage - like mine, their plans have increased every year, while services have been diluted, and copays and coinsurance have gone up, up, up. It's just getting to be too much. That's why I'm such a big single payer advocate.

[George II]

197. When looking for when Dingell first introduced his legislation, I found this:

https://history.house.gov/HistoricalHighlight/Detail/15032395644?ret=True

Dingell’s best-known legislative legacy was his unwavering advocacy of a national health insurance plan. During the 78th Congress (1943–1945), Dingell, along with Senators Robert Wagner of New York and James Murray of Montana, introduced the Wagner–Murray–Dingell bills (H.R. 2861 and S. 1161) in June 1943. These bills offered an extension of the Social Security system to the entire U.S. working population while introducing expansive health care benefits. Although the bills died in committee, Dingell, Wagner, and Murray submitted revised bills in subsequent Congresses. Eventually, some of the proposed benefits appeared in legislation proposed by President Harry S. Truman in his 1949 State of the Union Address.

[George II]

205. More about my "absurdly irrelevant comment" (see post #183), in addition to the Dingells....

John Conyers was on the cutting edge of the "Medicare for All" issue, indeed actually using that term more than 15 years before Sanders came up with it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Health_Care_Act#targetText=The%20United%20States%20National%20Health

The United States National Health Care Act or Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act is a bill first introduced in the United States House of Representatives by former Representative John Conyers (D-MI) in 2003, with 25 cosponsors.

Conyers also re-introduced it every year since 2003 until he left Congress.

It's interesting to note that Sanders wasn't even an original co-sponsor, he signed onto it more than a YEAR after Conyers introduced it. So much for "thanks to Sanders we're now talking about single payer..."

[PatrickforO]

208. Well...OK. I'm cool with that. I remember John Conyers.

But, in terms of popular sentiment reaching the tipping point, and having it on the party platform, Bernie had more to do with that. But your point is well taken. Bernie merely started talking about it as a challenge to Hillary Clinton in 2016. We won't fight the primary again by any means, but I believe we may have reached a tipping point.

I don't know if you've read that book (Tipping Point) by Malcolm Gladwell, but he talks about how a meme, or thought, or desire, or way to do stuff starts small, with just a few people, then pretty soon everyone is thinking that way, or doing that way. The book explores that particular point in time when a meme goes mainstream. Sort of like today's concept of going viral.

That global warming is an existential crisis for our species, for instance, used to hold steady at about 7%. Now it is at 20% give or take. This means popular pressure is getting strong enough to negate the dark money and pseudo science being put out by big oil. Rachel just wrote a book about that, which I have not read as yet.

And healthcare is the same way. Phrased correctly, the idea of a single payer has over 50% support. Of course, the media and pollsters have made a science out of phrasing the question wrong so we can all split hairs, but the writing is on the wall. Popular pressure is building.

You know, George, if I were in academia, which I'm not, this 'tipping point' concept would be a pretty neat thing to do a dissertation on.

As to Conyers, he was a champion for civil rights and social justice as well as economic justice. The one scandal aside, he did a lot of good.

[George II]

209. When I posted that, I hadn't heard the news today. John Conyers passed away this morning at age 90.

[PatrickforO]

210. Yes, rest in peace, John. The world is a better place because he lived,

and that's saying something.

I hope that's my epitaph too.

[JoeOtterbein]

41. +1000!

[redqueen]

49. This. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. Ding! Ding! Ding! We hava winna!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[MrsCoffee]

136. Lol. There is a contingent here who pretty much thinks he can say or do no wrong.

Pretty gross what gets defended.

Like this shit here.

[TCJ70]

148. What advice would you have given? N/t

[KPN]

182. Exactly.

[CozyMystery]

139. I do, too...

My son got a speeding ticket for going 5 over, and when he told me about it, my first reaction was fear. He recounted everything, including that he had been super polite and the cop treated him in a professional manner. No problems at all.

Then he said it was a good thing that he had just had a haircut, so he fits right in this small town. From my sons' experiences here, cops and drug users always talk to them when they have long hair. They think my sons are drug dealers just because of their hair length.

But what struck me was how my fear was misplaced. Encouraged by the many times I've read about (and viewed) police mistreatment of non-white people.

My son is white! Yet I still remind all of my sons that the name of the game is to be polite and respectful, and to set their phones to record if they are pulled over.

Better safe than sorry.

[Uncle Joe]

5. Get Home Safely: 10 Rules of Survival

There is a growing movement across the country represented by the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter that is driving awareness to the number of young Black men and women who are shot and killed during confrontations with police.

For many, the story of Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, Eric Garner and too many others, have become symbols of the larger social divides in America, exposing the harsh and complex realities of race, class and identity. And for many African-American families, to be Black is to be at an extraordinary risk (Federal data shows that, in recent years, young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot dead than their white counterparts1).

This led PBS station WFYI, in partnership with the SALT Project, Trinity United Church of Christ and Christian Theological Seminary to develop the short film: "Get Home Safely: 10 Rules of Survival."

10 Rules of Survival if Stopped by the Police

1. Be polite and respectful when stopped by the police. Keep your mouth closed.

2. Remember that your goal is to get home safely. If you feel that your rights have been violated, you and your parents have the right to file a formal complaint with your local police jurisdiction.

3. Don’t, under any circumstance, get into an argument with the police.

4. Always remember that anything you say or do can be used against you in court.

5. Keep your hands in plain sight and make sure the police can see your hands at all times.

6. Avoid physical contact with the police. No sudden movements, and keep hands out of your pockets.

7. Do not run, even if you are afraid of the police.

8. Even if you believe that you are innocent, do not resist arrest.

9. Don’t make any statements about the incident until you are able to meet with a lawyer or public defender.

10. Stay calm and remain in control. Watch your words, body language and emotions.

https://www.pbs.org/black-culture/connect/talk-back/10_rules_of_survival_if_stopped_by_police/

but Bernie said it so it must be bad right?

[redqueen]

54. ...

[Uncle Joe]

60. ...

Peace to you redqueen.

[lapucelle]

86. Where is the part about "getting shot in the back of the head"?

[treestar]

215. That's good advice for anyone

The problems arise when people think they should "win the case" on the street by convincing the police not to arrest them. And their efforts at persuasion are usually ill-advised or ineffective.

[OldRed2450]

7. Black people are getting shot in their homes doing nothing!

Philando Castile would disagree with Bernie.

[mcar]

10. Botham Jean

I cannot believe people on this board are excusing this!

[ChubbyStar]

27. I didn't see any body excusing the cruel unwarranted deaths of black men

[mcar]

29. Really?

Alrighty then.

[ChubbyStar]

37. Nah, sorry didn't see any excuses

Saw a bunch of people talking about advice, and the reality of cops being brutal, but NOT A ONE excusing police brutality. You might need to get your eyes checked. It is important to have a good Optometrist!

[questionseverything]

17. so you think the advise should be what?

argue with the cop? be disrespectful? scream and yell? hide your hands?

no one is saying it should be this way, simply that it is this way

[OldRed2450]

20. The truth.

How about, I'm not equipped to answer that question. my kids are not black and do not fear the police.

[questionseverything]

22. see if you think whites do not fear cops you are just wrong

this is why the 99 can not overcome, people that do not understand our problems are the same

while it might be that not as many white kids get shot in the back of the head, plenty of them go to prison for years for stuff they didn't do for lack of a 300 dollar an hour lawyer

[OldRed2450]

33. The difference between whites and blacks is MASSIVE.

If you don't get that, you should commune and get to know more black folks.

[questionseverything]

45. my neighborhood is very mixed

whites are actually the minority on my block


the difference is probably that I don't live in a huge city

[mcar]

36. You cannot possibly be comparing

the murder of black Americans by law enforcement, for the simple "crime" of being black, to other injustices in the CJ system.

You seem to be suggesting that black people being killed for routine traffic stops is akin to a white person not being able to afford a high-end lawyer.

[questionseverything]

44. if 8 out of 10 murders by police are of blacks, how does that help the 2 white guys?

no I am not saying the injustice is the same but I am saying poor whites warn their children about cops just like blacks do

[OldRed2450]

50. No! Not just like blacks do.

Not even close. I genuinely feel sick.

[questionseverything]

82. a huge part of the problem is hiring vets home from iraq/afganistan with ptsd

I feel sick that candidates that promoted that war are running for pres

[OldRed2450]

84. Nothing was going to stop Bush

BUSH. It was BUSH and his administration. I remember it all. Democrats authorized that the president has the power to declare war in an emergency. It was a bad decision for democrats but it was right after 9/11. Bush is the one to blame. Not democrats but if you want to talk about that... start another thread.

[questionseverything]

91. obama didnt back bush.it wasn;t all democrats

https://theintercept.com/2019/09/06/joe-biden-defends-record-iraq-including-plan-divide-along-sectarian-lines/


While Biden was quick to criticize the conduct of the war, and George W. Bush’s decision to attack without United Nations support, it is simply not true that the then-senator from Delaware “came out against the war” after the first strikes on Baghdad on March 20, 2003.

Four months after the American attack, Biden gave a staunch defense of the invasion to a roomful of foreign policy experts at the Brookings Institution in Washington. “Nine months ago, I voted with my colleagues to give the President of the United States of America the authority to use force, and I would vote that way again today,” Biden said on July 31, 2003. “It was a right vote then, and it’d be a correct vote today.”

[flor-de-jasmim]

129. That would be the kiss of death for a candidate.

To suggest that only people of the same color, or by extension, religion, gender, etc., could be helpful is identity politics at its worst.

[CharleyDog]

32. yes, but when you are stopped by a cop, what do you do?

What can you advise?

[thesquanderer]

144. The fact that getting pulled over is not the ONLY way to get shot is no reason not to have...

...a good "survival strategy" if you DO get pulled over.

[treestar]

216. That's another issue

It is hard to say what advice to use to avoid that. But the type of incident where there is a face-to-face encounter is what is under discussion here.

[Skittles]

8. :O

that's right up there with telling women not to dress in a provocative fashion, you know, so men won't feel obligated to sexually assault

[NurseJackie]

9. Yes. Thank you.

[mcar]

11. Don't bring on your own death, or rape

[thesquanderer]

145. Better to learn how to behave so you don't get shot...

...then to dismiss the advice because "it's wrong that I should have to worry about this" and then being dead.

[mcar]

150. You are saying that young black people don't know how to behave?

Who is dismissing the "advice?"

Sanders' answer implies that black people get shot by the police because they are not polite. You seem to be saying the same.

Again, tell that to Philando Castile. Do you recall that video? He was polite and respectful and still got murdered by an out of control cop at a routine traffic stop. Should he have learned how to behave?

How about Tamir Rice? Remember him? 12 YO kid playing in a park. Cops shot him within 2 seconds of them pulling up. He didn't have time to behave. So it's his fault?

[thesquanderer]

158. No, I am saying that being polite probably increases one's odds of survival.

I didn't say it's a cure-all. Neither did Bernie.

I didn't say that young black people don't know how to behave. Neither did Bernie. But it is probably good advice that the kids go out of their way to be as respectful as possible, even while they may feel they are being unfairly treated and when their adrenaline may be high. Because the important thing is to get home alive. It has been repeated many times that black parents give very much this same advice to their kids all the time.

It should be the cops' job to de-escalate, but unfortunately, in this situation, it is also up to the driver to be extra careful not to escalate.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. Lol. Sometimes people try too hard.

https://www.pbs.org/black-culture/connect/talk-back/10_rules_of_survival_if_stopped_by_police/

10 Rules of Survival if Stopped by the Police

1. Be polite and respectful when stopped by the police. Keep your mouth closed.

2. Remember that your goal is to get home safely. If you feel that your rights have been violated, you and your parents have the right to file a formal complaint with your local police jurisdiction.

3. Don’t, under any circumstance, get into an argument with the police.

4. Always remember that anything you say or do can be used against you in court.

5. Keep your hands in plain sight and make sure the police can see your hands at all times.

6. Avoid physical contact with the police. No sudden movements, and keep hands out of your pockets.

7. Do not run, even if you are afraid of the police.

8. Even if you believe that you are innocent, do not resist arrest.

9. Don’t make any statements about the incident until you are able to meet with a lawyer or public defender.

10. Stay calm and remain in control. Watch your words, body language and emotions.

[stonecutter357]

12. lol WTF !

[Autumn]

18. Good advice.

https://www.pbs.org/black-culture/connect/talk-back/10_rules_of_survival_if_stopped_by_police/

10 Rules of Survival if Stopped by the Police

1. Be polite and respectful when stopped by the police. Keep your mouth closed.

2. Remember that your goal is to get home safely. If you feel that your rights have been violated, you and your parents have the right to file a formal complaint with your local police jurisdiction.

3. Don’t, under any circumstance, get into an argument with the police.

4. Always remember that anything you say or do can be used against you in court.

5. Keep your hands in plain sight and make sure the police can see your hands at all times.

6. Avoid physical contact with the police. No sudden movements, and keep hands out of your pockets.

7. Do not run, even if you are afraid of the police.

8. Even if you believe that you are innocent, do not resist arrest.

9. Don’t make any statements about the incident until you are able to meet with a lawyer or public defender.

10. Stay calm and remain in control. Watch your words, body language and emotions.

[Skittles]

30. it's the inference that courtesy alone is the root of the problem

[Autumn]

35. I've taught that to my grandson, he doesn't have to mean it, he just has to pretend. nt

[Skittles]

43. I am always extremely polite to police

but do I have the same feelings when I am pulled over that, say, a black man does? Hell no. I don't think "Driving While White" is much of an issue.

[Autumn]

47. "Driving While Brown" is an issue. nt

[Skittles]

58. yes

I do believe POC are targeted unfairly, and that is an issue that should be addressed, rather than politeness

[Autumn]

62. It had been addressed time and again and our children still die. Politenes has nothing to do with it

and that's not what Bernie suggested. I don't know one single POC who doesn't tell their kids... Be respectful and keep your mouth shut unless it's to say "yes Sir or no Sir". We don't do that out of politeness

[thesquanderer]

147. There is no inference that courtesy is the root of the problem.

But when a black kid is pulled over, he's in no position to try to get to the root of the problem. He needs to survive, and courtesy helps.

[questionseverything]

238. it is more about not giving the cop an "excuse"

n/t

[mcar]

39. Tell Philando Castile

[DesertRat]

100. Exactly

[Mike Nelson]

19. That's not bad advice...

... try to be polite... respectful... you are on their turf.

[TheFarseer]

23. What's wrong with that advice?

And if he doesn’t mention that black folks get shot by police sometimes, people would be pissed about that! There’s just no winning for Bernie.

[Skittles]

31. it's the inference that courtesy alone is the root of the problem

[tulipsandroses]

67. Thank you! That was a bullshit answer.

As the mother of a black son, who has spent countless nights worrying about his safety. This is a piss poor answer! That is not an acceptable answer for someone trying to be president or any politician for that fucking matter!

As politicians, they have the power TO DO SOMETHING! As mothers, sisters, wives, husbands, daughters, friends of black men, we have no power. We feel completely helpless. I don't need the same fucking helpless answer from any damn politician.


[link:https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/us/philando-castile-shooting-dashcam/index.html|


Philando Castille was not being disrespectful when he was killed. Quite the opposite.


It took just 40 seconds for an ordinary traffic stop to turn deadly -- from a police officer saying, "Hello, sir," to him firing seven shots at a seated motorist.

Traffic stop turns deadly in 40 seconds, according police dashcam video
Video released after being shown at ex-officer's trial in Philando Castile shooting
(CNN)What's most shocking is how fast it happened.


Philando Castile shooting: Dashcam video shows rapid event
By Jay Croft, CNN
Updated 10:14 AM ET, Wed June 21, 2017
Video of Philando Castile shooting released
Play Video
Video of Philando Castile shooting released 01:08
Story highlights
Traffic stop turns deadly in 40 seconds, according police dashcam video
Video released after being shown at ex-officer's trial in Philando Castile shooting
(CNN)What's most shocking is how fast it happened.

It took just 40 seconds for an ordinary traffic stop to turn deadly -- from a police officer saying, "Hello, sir," to him firing seven shots at a seated motorist.
But the police dashboard camera video released Tuesday adds a visceral element to what police witnesses had described -- unnerving even in the context of other police shootings and after a video taken by Philando Castile's passenger went viral.

Yanez tells Castile his brake lights are out.
The video does not show Yanez's point of view or the inside of Castile's car, where his girlfriend Diamond Reynolds and her 4-year-old daughter were passengers.
Yanez asks for Castile's driver's license and insurance.
Thirty seconds into the conversation, Castile begins to tell Yanez that he has a weapon.
Castile: Sir, I have to tell you I do have a ...
Yanez: OK.
Castile: ... firearm on me.
Yanez: OK
Castile: I (inaudible)
Yanez: Don't reach for it then.
Castile: I'm, I, I was reaching for ...
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Castile: I'm not pulling it out.
Reynolds: He's not.
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Yanez, whose hand had been near his gun, pulls out his weapon and fires seven rapid shots into the car, striking Castile five times.
Reynolds: You just killed my boyfriend.
Castile: I wasn't reaching ...
Reynolds: He wasn't reaching.
Yanez: Don't pull it out!
Reynolds: He wasn't.
Yanez: Don't move! (Expletive.)
Yanez is then heard shouting obscenities and breathing heavily as the tape continues.
The child exits the car amid the chaos, and the other officer picks her up.
Reynolds begins sharing a live video on Facebook, narrating in calm tones. She is told to exit the car and walk backward to an officer.

People are fucking terrified!

A better answer for Sen Sanders, how shameful it is that citizens of this country are terrified and feel their lives or loved ones' lives may be in danger when they interact with the police. People we pay to serve and protect us. What he plans to do about it. That young man is looking for answers from a politician. How can you help keep me safe?

Bernie totally missed it with that answer.

[TCJ70]

76. Your "better answer" is not an answer to the question.

What advice have you given your son?

[tulipsandroses]

80. I doubt this young man was looking for fatherly advice

So we don't need to discuss what I tell my son as a parent. I doubt he was looking for the same answer he hears from family from somebody who wants to be his president.

[TCJ70]

81. So you're upset Bernie didn't answer a question he wasn't asked.

I have no doubt the young man was more than capable of expressing himself clearly. Sanders answered the question he was asked.

You tell your son to be respectful, don’t you? At least as a partial answer...

[ChubbyStar]

83. Then why did he ask this?

Black male student: What advice would you give me if I was your son about being stopped by a cop.
Bernie Sanders: Be respectful so you won't get shot in the back of your head. Make sure the cameras are on.


The questioner could have easily left the "son" part out of it, they chose not to leave it out.

[mcar]

95. Thank you for this post

I cannot believe what I'm seeing on this thread, especially after we have seen the killing of so many young men of color who DID. NOTHING. WRONG!

[betsuni]

103. +1

[pnwmom]

38. The problem was not in telling him to act respectful -- it was this part:

"So you don't get shot in the back of the head."

This is a form of victim blaming. It implies that getting shot in the back of the head is the result of not being respectful enough.

[dansolo]

130. People are willing to defend or ignore every tone deaf thing Bernie says

You are exactly right. The first part is fine, even if it is a little simplistic. It is the implication of the second part that is offensive.

[thesquanderer]

151. It's common sense to behave respectfully around a cop with a gun.

Yes, SO you're that much less likely to get shot.

It's not about victim blaming. It's a survival strategy.

[TheFarseer]

200. This response reminds me of my kids

When I say don’t touch the hot pan and I get an indignant “I’m not”. Ok so continue to not touch it, I’m just reminding you

[mcar]

42. Philando Castile is what is wrong with that advice

[Autumn]

48. I found the "so you won't get shot in the back of your head" to be very interesting.

Bernie gets it.

[mcar]

56. Tamir Rice would like a word

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. Not a damn thing!! Good for Bernie!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[agalisgv]

40. I feel like this question was a set up

Any honest answer is going to sound bad

[OldRed2450]

52. I hope the kid that asked the question doesn't get doxxed.

[mcar]

149. Biden got a similar question

[vsrazdem]

46. It doesn't matter. Anything Bernie said would be criticized.

[Skittles]

71. aw, because he is such a victim

poor Bernie

[vsrazdem]

97. No because I read this board and it never fails.

[4139]

61. Be polite to ANYONE who has a gun

[mcar]

63. Again, Tamir Rice would like a word

As would Philando Castile.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

201. And those are policing problems.

No one is saying that is a guarantee of a good outcome but it is the best advice. I know, I know, Bernie said it...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

64. Here's a way Bernie could have answered that effectively.

"I can't imagine the fear and frustration black parents must feel when talking with their children about dealing with the police in this day and age. Having talked with many black families and families of color, I know parents have specific discussions with their kids about interacting with the police. And that's a problem -- the discussions shouldn't be around the kitchen table, but at city council meetings, at community activist meetings, at collective bargaining meetings with the police unions. It's not up to black families to manage the police's behavior. It's up to the entire community. Etc., etc."

[tulipsandroses]

78. Thank you. Somebody that gets it!

I don't expect the same powerless answer from a politician that I give my son

[loyalsister]

114. Exactly

The young man was giving him an opportunity to clarify his understanding of a glaring example of systemic racism. I think he should also have avoided the imagery.

[brer cat]

125. Excellent response.

[thesquanderer]

152. But that doesn't answer the question he was asked! (n/t)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

171. I'm a fan of white people punting on giving advice to black people and POC about moving through

a white supremacy. To answer the question straight gives legitimacy to white supremacy -- which is what Sanders' answer did.

[thesquanderer]

177. OTOH, the problem with "punting" is...

...as I said in another post...

Why would a person of color or a female EVER vote for a white male candidate, if instead of displaying some understanding of their unique issues, the candidate answered, "I can't really speak to that issue, because I'm not..." black/female/whatever.

Avoiding answering these questions is a bad idea, IMO.

And I bet the same people attacking Sanders for answering the question would be attacking him for not answering the question. "He avoided it because he doesn't have a good answer. Just more evidence that he doesn't understand black issues." Or some such.

Anyway, his answer doe not legitimize white supremacy... it recognizes certain uncomfortable realities. This is a situation a black person may find himself in, where even if he feels wronged/profiled/whatever, it can be more important to survive than to take a stand.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

178. Yeah, "punting" is a poor choice of word.

I don't want Sanders and others to avoid answering the question. I want him to do a better job of showing that he's talked with people about their experiences, talked with experts about solutions and is committed to taking as progressive an approach to the carceral state as he is to economic situations. And I don't believe he's done the homework to answer effectively.

Anyway, his answer doe not legitimize white supremacy... it recognizes certain uncomfortable realities.

The uncomfortable reality is that we live in a white supremacy.

[thesquanderer]

179. Recognizing something bad exists is important. Recognizing it does not legitimize it.

One can recognize that black people are discriminated against, without legitimizing discrimination. In fact, it is important to do so.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

180. I don't believe Sanders did so effectively in his answer.

[thesquanderer]

184. Inherently, recognizing something does not mean the same thing as legitimizing it.

His answer recognized a problem. What in his answer do you see as legitimizing it?

[cwydro]

65. Being respectful is not bad advice.

My parents told me the same thing.

But he should have left the second part of the sentence out - for so many reasons.

[mcar]

68. Does he really think that all the black men and women

who were killed by cops at traffic stops were killed because they weren't polite?

[Me.]

102. Exactly

[thesquanderer]

153. He didn't say that. He did say that being polite can help you survive. Different. (n/t)

[mcar]

154. ...

Bernie Sanders: Be respectful so you won't get shot in the back of your head. Make sure the cameras are on.

[thesquanderer]

160. So your point is that instead of "so you won't get shot" he should have said...

..."to reduce the chances that you'll get shot"? That's a pretty minor semantic quibble in casual speech to get all worked up about.

[TCJ70]

156. What advice would you give? N/t

[mcar]

157. I'm not a presidential candidate

[TCJ70]

161. Didn't realize you had to be one to answer a question

I bet you’d suggest being respectful, too. Wouldn’t you?

[mcar]

167. I wouldn't presume that a young black man would not be respectful

I wouldn't presume that a young black man would need to be told to be respectful.

I wouldn't be so disrespectful as to tell a young black man that he should be respectful so he wouldn't get shot in the back of the head. I would be aware enough to know that all the respect in the world doesn't stop young black men from being killed by law enforcement at routine traffic stops, playing in a park, or eating ice cream in their own homes.

[TCJ70]

168. But if asked for advice, what would you say? Be disrespectful? N/t

[mcar]

199. What a silly question

[Lunabell]

69. Oh jeezus

Another old white man response.

[Hoyt]

70. No Sanders fan. But if you watch the video, I think he's giving good advice and he is ashamed

that we have to say something like that in this country. He even talks about we have to hold police accountable.

[Lucky Luciano]

79. Thank you.

[betsuni]

72. At least he didn't remind everyone again that he was at the March on Washington and saw MLK.

[Lucky Luciano]

73. Sounds like a strong criticism and indictment of the police forces of the USA by Bernie.

[TCJ70]

74. What's the correct answer, those who are upset by this?

Sounds like decent advice to me.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

89. I took a stab in post 64.

[TCJ70]

90. But that's not an answer to the question asked.

What advice would you give the person asking that question?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

170. I'm a fan of white people punting on giving advice to black people and POC about moving through

a white supremacy. To answer the question straight gives legitimacy to white supremacy -- which is what Sanders' answer did.

[TCJ70]

172. EVERYONE READ THIS PERSONS RESPONSE.

I can not believe what I just read and hope you do not really believe it. To suggest that we cannot talk to each other or that someone can’t answer a question because of the color of their skin is absolutely ridiculous and a convenient dodge as to what the real problem is: that you’d also give the advice of being respectful.

[Gothmog]

75. This was a truly horrible response by sanders

Here is how Biden handled a similar question

Link to tweet

[TCJ70]

77. Biden didn't answer the question. He changed it.

Sanders advice isn’t bad and I bet is the same advice parents give their kids all the time. Biden actually didn’t answer the question and pandered to the crowd suggesting that white people never get pulled over. As a white person who has been pulled over, that’s bullshit.

[questionseverything]

94. the idea that biden is gonna wave a majic wand and fix it is bs too

I thought the answer was playing the record player?

[ChubbyStar]

96. SSSSHHHHHH.....the record player shall not be mentioned

The magic wand was a nice touch though...

[Skya Rhen]

109. If Bernie had answered the way Biden did, he wouldn't be getting rightfully flamed on social media.

[TCJ70]

122. Sure he would. The complaint would have been that he...

...made the questioner white instead of answering the question. Is Biden not capable of putting himself in someone else’s shoes?

[emmaverybo]

112. Why use the word pander? You know exactly what he meant, which is that it is less likely a white

young person doing nothing wrong will be pulled over than a young black person.

Yes, he did not answer the question, but used it to make a stance which is often what politicians do. He’s not pandering in doing so. Biden has supported civil rights for decades.

I think folks are reading too much into Bernie’s answer as well. Damned if you do and and damned if you don’t answer.

Bernie was not being a police apologist and Biden was not pandering.

[TCJ70]

123. The question didn't include anything about being pulled over...

...for no reason. People of all races get pulled over for all sorts of reasons and anyone of us is just as capable of breaking the law as anyone else. Biden’s suggestion that his hypothetical white daughter wouldn’t be pulled over at all is wrong and an obvious pander.

[emmaverybo]

198. I assumed it did or the questioner would have stated the circumstances, However, does not change

my opinion that Biden was not pandering and Bernie was not being a police apologist. The fact is “driving while black” is a reality and that is the context in which Biden answered.

[sheshe2]

113. How many of those white kids..

How many of those white kids were shot in the back and left dead in the street in the hot sun for four hours.

See Michael Brown.

The Rev. Al Sharpton, preaching at Brown’s funeral two weeks later, said the teen was left in the street “like nobody cared,” as if his life “didn’t matter.” A national magazine, too, zeroed in on the four hours Brown’s body lay on the ground. “Dictators leave bodies in the street,” the author wrote. “Warlords leave bodies in the street.” Not, “an advanced society.”

snip

“They shot a black man, and they left his body in the street to let you all know this could be you,” Ferguson resident Alexis Torregrossa, 21, said almost four weeks after the shooting. “To set an example, that’s how I see it.”

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/why-was-michael-brown-s-body-left-there-for-hours/article_0b73ec58-c6a1-516e-882f-74d18a4246e0.html

It was a message sent by the police. Fear us.

[TCJ70]

124. What advice would you have given the questioner? N/t

[Gothmog]

203. Here is Biden's full answer

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[aidbo]

212. Does Joe not realize a white man can have a black daughter?

weird way to avoid answering her question.

[Clash City Rocker]

93. See, if you're nice to the police officer, he might shoot you in the chest instead

And then you might get an open casket funeral. That’s better, right?

Seriously, blaming any police shooting on “well, if he had groveled a little, he might not have died” is disgusting. Police who shoot innocent black people do it because they hate black people, not because the black person was a little uppity. White people are uppity to cops all the time, and they rarely get shot for it.

[Hunt 4 Blue November]

99. And if you're REAL nice. . .

you might get away with merely being in a wheelchair for the rest of your life!

[LenaBaby61]

127. And then you might get an open casket funeral. That's better, right?

Last edited Sun Oct 27, 2019, 07:37 AM - Edit history (1)

White people are uppity to cops all the time, and they rarely get shot for it.

Tell me about it. Hell, even if you're a mass-murderer, you're oftentimes taken into custody gently, calmly almost lovingly. Yet, sell some a few cigarettes on a corner and you're choked to DEATH.


Being African-American, a rogue police officer can shoot and even murder you even if you're ....

In a room playing video games with your nephew.

In your own apartment sleep, and the self-proclaimed racist cop can still shoot you to death and claim she thought that she was in her own apartment (Hey even if you are convicted, you can still get a nice hug from a judge).

You can be mowing your own front YARD, and be held at gunpoint, even though your white neighbors stand by horrified yelling that you are their neighbor.

Be on the police force for over 10 years doing undercover police work, and still get shot because one of your fellow police officers (Who had only been a cop for far less time) thought that you 'resembled' a suspect that they were looking for, even though you looked NOTHING like the suspect.

BREATHING.

Yeah, no.

Being NICE to a police officer doesn't necessarily mean that he/she won't shoot, kill or maim you if they're a racist, rogue piece of shit police officer.

Bernie

[betsuni]

128. +1

[DesertRat]

104. Ugh!

[dewsgirl]

105. Oh no. He really said that?

[DesertRat]

107. here

Link to tweet

[dewsgirl]

108. Yikes!

[betsuni]

110. Interesting comments in that thread.

Thanks for posting.

[Cha]

111. Mahalo, DR.. 2 more tweets on that thread..

Last edited Sun Oct 27, 2019, 01:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

Edited one tweet out..

[DesertRat]

118. Yikes

[Gothmog]

119. I remember these clips

[NurseJackie]

134. Well, well, well... very interesting background info.

It puts the things we hear today into perspective.

[Cha]

234. It sure Does, Jackie!

Thank you!

[TidalWave46]

115. Two things.

1) “In the back of the head could have been omitted. It’s an excellent answer without it. I still think it’s a good answer to the question but that makes it look like he is trying a bit hard.

2) Good on the questioner and Sanders answer. It seem to me that Sanders tried to put himself in the situation and answered like he thought he would as a father. Come on folks. We all need to think about the position one and other are in today. Take some time to think about what it might look like to walk in someone else’s shoes.

No one is going to accuse me of supporting Sanders. But I have to give this a thumbs up.

[myohmy2]

116. "Bernie Sanders: Be respectful..."

...thank you Bernie; sound advice...

...we should all be respectful to everyone, everyday, everywhere...

...for me, I'm always respectful, especially around with someone with a gun...seriously

...you never know...

[MustLoveBeagles]

117. If he'd left out the part about getting shot in the back of the head, his answer would've been fine

On the other hand, there have been black males who've been polite, respectful, and followed the cop's instructions who still wound up dead. There were also two recent cases where people of color were in their own homes minding their own business and they still got shot. Perceived respect, or lack thereof, isn't always the problem.

[Eric J in MN]

120. Is there a DU rule against thread titles this misleading? NT

NT

[PhoenixDem]

132. SMDH n/t

[MrsCoffee]

137. Last person I would take advice from on being respectful.

Just sayin....

[honest.abe]

140. What an odd and inappropriate response.

He has zero understanding of the issues black people face with police.

[TCJ70]

146. What advice would you give? N/t

[honest.abe]

162. How about leave off the comment about being shot in the back of the head.

[TCJ70]

163. But that's not the advice, is it? N/t

[honest.abe]

164. But that's what makes it inappropriate and odd.

[TCJ70]

165. Not really. I bet parents all over this country say it...

...to their kids every day. It’s the same advice I’d give my own kids. It’s not meant to be some kind of guarantee.

[honest.abe]

166. "Be nice or get shot" ??

I would never say that to my kid.

[TCJ70]

169. What would you say? Lay it out. You still haven't done that. N/t

[honest.abe]

173. The first part of what he said is fine...

just leave off the "or get shot in the back of the head" part.

[TCJ70]

175. So you'd give the same advice. Got it. N/t

[honest.abe]

176. No.

The problem is tying the threat being shot to the advice.

[KPN]

194. Oh brother! More Bernie hate. I don't get it and.

can’t understand what appears to be not just a total lack of appreciation but outright disdain for him. He’s done so much to expand awareness and support for the progressive agenda— and this is what he gets from the usual suspects around here. Sad.

[George II]

204. "..the usual suspects..."? REALLY?

[KPN]

211. really

[ehrnst]

222. Repeating Bernie's own words is "Bernie hate?"

[KPN]

223. In Bernie's case. There is no question that

certain DUers have great disdain and intolerance if not exactly hate for him. I understand disagreement, but it goes way beyond that. I just don’t get it. I’m not rooting for or supporting Bernie this time around because there are other candidates I believe are better. But I have a great admiration for Bernie and what he has done overall. I don’t get hung up on the party label or even his criticism of the Democratic Party; I suppose that’s in part why I don’t get it.

[ehrnst]

224. A certain portion of Bernie supporters believe that any dissent is an "attack" or "hate."

I just didn't get the genuine, deep hatred for Hillary (and her supporters) by certain DUers that went far beyond "disdain," dislike"anything that's been said about Senator Sanders.

Same for the attacks on Senator Warren by Sanders surrogates.

I don’t get hung up on the party label or even his criticism of the Democratic Party; I suppose that’s in part why I don’t get it.

But certainly you can understand that many Democrats find his attacks on the party disturbing, and less than desirable in a Democratic candidate, especially on Democratic Underground, or such a candidates' supporters.

Disagreeing with Sanders' words and actions do not = "HATE." That's only true for people with very dualistic world views.

[KPN]

227. I do understand being disturbed over his criticisms of the party. I'm not sure I would call them

attacks. I have some of the same criticisms and have for years. So to an extent, as a 48 year registered member of the party and 100% Democratic ticket voter over that time frame, I found his public criticism somewhat refreshing. He has voiced things that frankly needed to be said and heard. And the party has responded with steps to modify its electoral procedures and adoption of a more progressive platform -- which I also find refreshing. We are going in the right direction as a party in my view.

[ehrnst]

229. He's running on a Democratic Party ticket.

Because of money and marketing, as he has stated.

I'm not sure I would call them attacks.

So certainly you can understand why many wouldn't equate criticisms of him "attacks" or "hate."

I have found honest debate about all the candidates refreshing. Some here think that Sanders is exempt from that, and call it "attacks."

Sanders has been given credit for many things that were part of the Democratic party long before he decided to run for office. I think it's refreshing when people are reminded of the great track record of Democrats when those who are only Democrats when running in a Primary hurl insults.

[Polybius]

196. It's not popular here, but I am pro-ass kissing to cops

Every time I get pulled over, I kiss their asses. I usually get out of the ticket.

[Gothmog]

202. Biden's answer was superior to sanders response

This response was for 8 minutes in four parts

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Afromania]

206. Out of touch old white guy answer.

Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2019, 08:17 AM - Edit history (2)

Being respectful isnt enough, he forgot the part where we have to defer to their power play. Where we have to know our place, where we have to be lesser than. Rather than somebody the police are supposed to allegedly serve and protect.

What he stated was what somebody who has no fucking idea about the situation would say. Not knowing anything other than what he's heard....... from people with no direct knowledge of what really goes on during these stops.

[NurseJackie]

213. Of all the responses and explanations posted in reply...

... this one is the best. Thanks for sharing your astute observations... thanks for getting to the crux of the matter so quickly and directly.

[George II]

220. Here is how Joe Biden answered the same question:

Link to tweet

[Cuthbert Allgood]

228. So how, exactly, is Biden going to end systemic racism?

I'd LOVE to see that plan. Because for all the complaining people do about Bernie not being clear enough about MFA, I call bullshit on "I'll end racism."

[ehrnst]

221. I am not surprised in the least. (nt)

[radical noodle]

230. Welcome to DU!

[Hortensis]

232. I'm not black and I'll react as I believe appropriate.

Cops executing civilians, disproportionately black, on the streets is a grave national problem that could become even more legally sanctioned if we don't stop the Republicans while we can.

My take on Sanders is that it was at best a very unwise comment that expressed an unbalanced and needlessly divisive position.

It was unfortunately probably instead most reflective of a flip and dismissive attitude. Sanders is famous for not taking issues of special importance to AAs seriously.

[Gothmog]

236. CNN-Racism, Bernie Sanders and the limits of 'respect'

Link to tweet

Think of how a common -- and predictable -- criticism of the former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who in 2016 began publicly protesting police violence, is that his defiance reveals a "lack of respect" for his country.

For another, Sanders' reply, at least without a meaningful nod to the racial hierarchies that partly govern America, also seems to assume, quietly, that "respect" can act as a shield.

Indeed, in recent years, much of the fury over the racial dimension of police violence has centered precisely on how the actual threat of black Americans tends to matter very little during encounters with law enforcement. That Eric Garner had no weapon didn't protect him. Neither did the fact that Philando Castile, who was in a parked car, was restrained by a seat belt.

Respect, in other words, isn't the issue. It's, well, racism, and the latter is all too easily exploited under the guise of the former.