Maybe we are swinging too far left, if Biden, Buttigieg Harris and Klobuchar are considered

[Peacetrain]

moderates. These are great solid liberals. Before I forget, let me add Booker to that list. I want to see good solid liberal policies put in place. Policies that put everyone on an equal footing. A fair start, to a fair game, and fair play for all of us, not just the few. Everyone benefits with a fair start. If that is now considerate a moderate point of view, well sign me up.

[beastie boy]

1. I would add Warren to this list.

Yes, she has been labeled "left wing'" of the Democratic party, but she is a self-described unabashed capitalist. And let's face it, many people way to the right of Warren acknowledge that the current economic system is in dire need of reform.

[Peacetrain]

2. The current Resident of the White House has dismantled so many protections

Just mind boggling how much work is ahead to keep us from falling off some unknown cliff again.

[Voltaire2]

5. I would add Sanders to the list.

There. Now all the people queasy about the rightwing talking point that the Democratic Party has gone too far left can relax.

[Peacetrain]

7. I'm not talking about right wing talking points... I am talking about chatter right here in the DU

[Voltaire2]

18. The thing about talking points is they propagate all over the place.

But whatever. Just add Sanders to your list and everything is fine.

[Turin_C3PO]

3. I don't think we're moving too far left.

Too far left would be socialism, IMO. As far as labels go, Biden and Klobuchar are liberals while Warren is a progressive. Some say the two terms are interchangeable but I feel there’s a slight difference. Personally, I like em all except Gabbard and Sanders.

[Peacetrain]

4. I looked up the definitions once of liberal

Liberal

adj: willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas:

noun: a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise and a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare


It works for me

[Turin_C3PO]

6. Very good definition.

I hate that conservatives have demonized the term.

[Peacetrain]

8. That is basically the reason I never embraced the term

progressive, because the right demonized the term liberal. So I have always been a liberal.

[Turin_C3PO]

9. For me it depends on the day.

Monday I’ll say I’m a liberal and Tuesday I’ll be a progressive. I like both terms! Lol.

[Peacetrain]

10. Sounds like a plan to me!!

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. Progressive and liberal aren't the same.

Not all progressives are liberal. Not all liberals are progressive.

If you asked me to describe my political philosophy with annoying hyperspecificity, I would say I am a progressive liberal.

[Kaiserguy]

13. Ask yourself what do conservatives ( Republicans)stand for

They stand for kids in cages, deficit exploring tax cut for the rich, destroying health care and social security, hate, hypocrisy, ignoring the law when it's one of they own, wrecking the environment, treason, etc. Can you name one good thing todays conservatives stand for ? I can't. They need to be shown and labeled for what the really are.

[cstanleytech]

14. Compared to the knuckle dragging neanderthals that the Repugnants have in office every single

one of our candidates is a progressive on the evolutionary ladder at the very least.

[Turin_C3PO]

17. Yup.

I totally agree. All of our candidates are awesome with one or two exceptions (and even they would be much better than Trump).

[dansolo]

42. I'd actuallly swap the two terms - Liberal and Progressive

I'd classify Sanders and Warren as Liberal, and the rest as Progressive. In my mind, a Liberal focuses on the end goal, while a progressive focuses on more of the process. The ACA is a great example of a Progressive policy. MFA is much more Liberal.

[ritapria]

11. If you hate Socialism

Then call for the end of Social Security , Medicare , Public Education and the Military that bumped off Baghdadi last night ….. If you assure Americans they will keep their doctor , MFA is wildly popular - even amongst Republicans …..

[Peacetrain]

12. Here you go.. the complete op with title..

Maybe we are swinging too far left, if Biden, Buttigieg Harris and Klobuchar are considered


moderates. These are great solid liberals. Before I forget, let me add Booker to that list. I want to see good solid liberal policies put in place. Policies that put everyone on an equal footing. A fair start, to a fair game, and fair play for all of us, not just the few. Everyone benefits with a fair start. If that is now considerate a moderate point of view, well sign me up.


____________________________________________________________________________________________________

okay I am all in.. I never mentioned socialism, ...what are you talking about.. I am a Democrat member of the Democratic party.. proud liberal.. (this is from another post in this same op).. and sick and tired of people who think using the term moderate will somehow demean and dismiss these good liberals..

Liberal

adj: willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas:

noun: a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise and a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare

[question everything]

15. You don't HAVE to use Social Security, medicare, public education and the military

but Sanders and Warren will remove private insurance that many like.

Like it or not, many like to use the term "It is a free country." Meaning leave me alone. Don't tell me how to live my life. Sure, many do not like taxes, even though the enjoy the benefit of them. And many object to government benefits if aimed at minorities, but love them for themselves.

Plus, all the grand plans of Warren and Sanders will cost a lot of money with no reasonable explanations on how to pay for them. We are already in the deficit hole with Trump. We should not add to that, regardless of how noble the plans may be. Plus, many resist the idea of getting "government" too much in their lives.

[Turin_C3PO]

16. It's a Reagan-era framing

that government=bad. Democrats should not give in to that narrative.

[question everything]

20. But if this what many voters accept - like it or not

then for us to ignore it, might as well fold out tents and accept Republican rule for the rest of the century.

Remember Clinton declaring that the era of big government was over?

Many do not like government involvement until... they do. But try to run a campaign on rational thought. This is how we lose.

[Voltaire2]

19. hardly anybody likes their insurance company. That is just nonsense.

Some people might like the great plan they have, but lets compare what the average employer based plan is to the plan being offered to *everyone* by MFA.

Everyone on MFA:
$0 premiums (but yes there is a tax increase)
$0 deductibles, doctor co-pays, out of network surcharges and uncovered mystery charges
Vision, Dental, Mental Health coverage same as medical coverage.

Most people on employer based private insurance:
$5,000 average family plan employee premiums
$3,000 average per family deductibles, co-pays, out of network surcharges and uncovered mystery charges
Vision, Dental, Mental Health coverage limited.

A small segment of the workforce with really good plans:
? I have no clue, might be as good as MFA, probably not.

Source is mostly https://www.kff.org/report-section/2018-employer-health-benefits-survey-summary-of-findings/

[question everything]

22. And how do you pay for all this pie in the sky plans?

I am on Medicare. I pay premium both to Medicare Part B that is being deducted from my Social Security benefit, and for supplemental insurance. And I copay doctors visit and medications.

Never mind the link. What do YOU have?

Yes, I could select Medicare alone which covers hospitals - Plan A. But I and most people need Plan B - doctors, and D - drugs.

Before Medicare, both my spouse were quite happy with our insurance spouse's through employer, mine - an individual one.

[Voltaire2]

24. It's great, just bop from one talking point to the next.

Are you conceding that your first objection was bullshit? If not let’s settle that argument before we move on to how MFA will reduce total healthcare costs by somewhere around 400-500 billion per year.

[question everything]

29. What talking points? Can you argue logically?

Medicare for all is costly and is rejected by most voters and will scare many of too much government intervention.

Your turn. If you can arrange your thoughts in a methodical way.

[Act_of_Reparation]

44. If I were to demand my opponent "argue logically"...

...I would probably hang out with fewer anecdotes.

Just. Sayin.

[Lordquinton]

40. Those goalposts are on wheels

And the talking points, they are ones often raised by RW types, ironic in this OP.

Mahalo Voltaire!

[Progressive dog]

21. Social security is not socialism

Socialism is a political theory, not a social program.

[Voltaire2]

25. Social security is a socialist program.

[Progressive dog]

30. Not according to the dictionary definition

or wikipedia or the President who made it law.
Socialism
Political ideology
Description
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them. Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity. Wikipedia

[Voltaire2]

36. there are many varieties of socialism.

in modern democracies, social democratic reform parties advocate policies like universal healthcare, universal education, universal old age pensions, and regulation of markets.

Many of the modern social democratic reform parties refer to themselves as 'democratic socialists'. You can be pedantic and claim that a universal old age pension system is not a socialist policy, I don't know why you find that to be important, unless you have some irrational aversion to the word 'social'. Odd that our universal old age pensions system is called 'social security' though, huh?

[Progressive dog]

46. No, social is in the dictionary, too.

Social security is an insurance policy that workers and employers pay for. It provides supplementary retirement,survivor, and disability income. The special income tax used to pay for it is regressive.

[LanternWaste]

32. I'd pretend to infer hate from the OP as well.

It allows us the opportunity to argue against a position absolutely no one is making. But we get to look clever (to ourselves if no one else) in the process.

[Joe941]

34. if anything we need more socialism in the USA!

[abqtommy]

23. I want to know who the people are that are calling our candidates "moderate" or "centrist".

Last edited Sun Oct 27, 2019, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Sounds like psy-ops to me.

[loyalsister]

26. I think candidates do that themselves

when they want to court voters who are not Democrats or self identify as liberal.

[Act_of_Reparation]

38. Hang out here another 30 minutes or so.

You'll find someone railing on about "radical leftists", how "this is not a left-center country", and how only a moderate centrist like Joe Biden can win back West Stupidville, WI because, as we all know, the American voter has extremely well-defined and rigid policy positions. They certainly don't vote for the most entertaining candidate or anything like that. Nah. Never.

[Kurt V.]

27. no moderates are supporting your view.

[Peacetrain]

28. Hello!

[redqueen]

31. The designation between what's considered 'moderate' / 'establishment' vs 'liberal' / 'progressive'

is not in the goal itself, but in the way to get there.

Offering tax incentives to combat financial inequality would be an example of a 'moderate' policy position.

[Gothmog]

33. I agree

These candidates are not moderates in the real world but are good liberal Democrats

[Amimnoch]

35. Red pill or blue pill

The real kicker is it doesn't matter anyway.

When it comes to the vast majority of policy issues that everyone is arguing over it isn't even within the powers of the executive branch to put in place. The ones that are hot topics are all going to be or not going to be put in place by the legislative.

For example, one of the most hotly debated, healthcare. Only getting a congress in place is going to make any progress at all happen.

If we get a congress that passes Medicare for all, is there ANY doubt at all that Biden would sign off on it??
If we get a congress that passes an enhanced ACA that progresses us forward, is there ANY doubt that Warren would sign off on it??

What we need to hear from our candidates are things that, as president, they would actually have the power to effect:
Repairing our international image.
Repairing the damage done by Trump appointments.
Replacing this atrocious sick joke of a cabinet with qualified people that will actually work to make their areas of influence BETTER.
Reversing Cheeto's executive orders with the same aggressive methodology that he did to President Obama's and getting children out of fucking cages.
Repairing our immigration policies.
Fixing the damage done to our education system and the department of education.
Condemning and working to stop foreign influence in our elections. (fuck, just someone who will acknowledge it would be an improvement).
restoring objectivity to our justice department.
Repairing our relationships with long time allies.
Stop sucking the cock of every dicktator on the planet. (and yes, that was misspelled intentionally)

[Anders8]

39. Who supports Medicare for All and who doesn't: who's a liberal and who's a moderate. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. This myth is created by people from outside the Democratic party. So called "Indies" & "Greens"...

who have no interest in sustaining the party most of us love, and were even born into. This is the reason I quit listening to folks like Thom Hartman many, many years ago. He was calling for fringe folks outside the party to invade and even take over.

[crazytown]

43. Biden has always been a center/moderate on economic policy.

[Gothmog]

47. Florida Democrats want a moderate.

Link to tweet

A group of current and former elected Democratic officials in Broward County said Tuesday they’d like to see their party nominate former Vice President Joe Biden for president in 2020.

Their second choice in a straw vote is Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Ind.

They definitely don’t want either U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts or U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the progressive candidates who are performing near the top of public opinion polls, along with Biden.....

But they believe the Democratic Party’s overriding goal of defeating President Donald Trump can be best achieved by nominating a candidate — like Biden or maybe Buttigieg — who they believe can better to appeal to swing voters in a handful of states that will decide the election.