I've changed back to undecided

[Buckeyeblue]

I like Pete. I like Biden. I like Harris. Warren has interesting ideas but I'm not sure they are good presidential ideas. Same with Bernie.

But I'm not necessarily excited about any of them. I think long term Pete has a great deal of potential. I wished he didn't live in backwards Indiana. And I worry that Biden, Bernie and Warren are too old.

I don't think Biden has handled Trump's attacks on his family particularly well.

So I'm moving back to undecided. The primary in my state is March 10th but I'll decide before Super Tuesday.

But I'm open to any possibility.

[Cary]

1. I don't need exciting.

Boring looks awfully good to me l, right now.

[Buckeyeblue]

2. I worry that boring will not get out the vote

[Cary]

3. That is beyond my abilities

I can neither predict the future nor alter the course of the plurality of Democratic voters. All I can do is add positive energy and support.

Oddly, I get attacked by alleged Democrats for that. Not so much as in 2016 but there remains some strange tribalism.

[kozar]

5. If the last 3 years cannot make

Dem's and indies and all Americans feel the NEED go out and vote, then i'm not sure a certain candidate would.

koz

[peggysue2]

16. I agree, koz

Instead of waiting for the excitement bell to ring, we should be focused on the waves of sheer terror if the Trumpsters are not fully repudiated. If Dems and Indies wish to see any progress and/or avoid our democratic Republic's actual demise, voting in 2020 is imperative, a responsibility we cannot shirk or whine/pout about.

VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO isn't simply a catchy line. It's a scream for national survival.

[LongtimeAZDem]

20. If the prospect of four more years of Trump doesn't get out the vote, nothing will

[Buckeyeblue]

21. The average person does not follow or understand what is at stake like you do.

[LongtimeAZDem]

22. If true, then we are doomed, regardless. But I don't agree.

[emulatorloo]

28. I believe average Democrats and Dem leaning Indy's want Trump gone.

[MFM008]

30. against maggot?

I would vote for a bowl of warm piss against him.
Im sure a lot of the electorate will do the same.

[Buckeyeblue]

32. The bowl of warm piss would have better judgement

[MFM008]

36. exactly

[democratisphere]

54. Let's see. Biden or drumpf?

Some choices are very easy. The biggest problem with the American Presidential election is that it seems to go on forever and ever, almost to the point of drudgery. The Iowa caucuses are a meaningless sham and should not be used as a measure of how a candidate is doing.

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. None of us "need exciting"

The apathetic unengaged sometimes-voters we rely upon to win elections need exciting.

[JoeDuck]

4. Constant defense

While I agree that some things can be handled better, I also worry that we let the Republicans set the agenda so that Democrats are constantly in defense mode.

[doc03]

6. I have too. I like Biden but the only time Democrats win is when we have

someone Democratic voters are excited about. Then we have Sanders and Warren that get huge support from the left
but IMO they haven't got a chance in winning the states we need to get the EC victory. I just have a very depressing feeling
of next years election. We all know Trump will not be removed from office and his damn cult will vote for him same as before.
I think Biden is going to be our Bob Dole and I see nobody else that is electable in the states we have to win back. Unless the economy goes in the dumper very soon I think Trump will get re-elected.

[Turin_C3PO]

8. He can't win with an approval rating

as low as it is. And polls show us trouncing Trump in the EC states that we need so I’m not sure why you’re so certain he’ll be re-elected. It’s ours to lose at this point.

[doc03]

13. I heard all of these arguments in 2016. The polls were right in 2016

but Trump won the EC. Joe Biden is great but he is very prone to gaffs, you never know what he may say. Trump gets a pass on whatever he says but the media is ready to pounce on Biden if he makes the least little mistake. The media will question Biden's age but never once mention Trump is damn near as old. If we had a good younger candidate like Bill Clinton or Obama was we would win in a landslide. But it is what it is.

[Buckeyeblue]

11. That's my concern as well

Trump could very well get reelected if we don't focus on getting out the vote.

[doc03]

14. I assume you are from Ohio too. Democrats seem to have written Ohio off as a lost

cause, Ohio has voted for Democrats before. Do you see anyone running that can turn the independent voters
and former Democrats around to vote for a Democrat again? This area is loaded with former union workers that blame Democrats for
the loss of manufacturing jobs. It all goes back to Bill Clinton signing NAFTA, never mind it was passed by Republican votes
the Republicans successfully hung it around the Democrats neck for decades now. The Republicans have managed to put all the blame on the loss of good paying manufacturing jobs on the unions and Democrats.

[Buckeyeblue]

15. I'm from Ohio but now live in Michigan

People don't understand that those manufacturing jobs were going away regardless of NAFTA. While NAFTA made it easier, car manufacturers were already downsizing with better efficiencies, robotics and less demand.

But anyway, I'm surprised how conservative Ohio has become since I grew up there in the 70's and 80's. It was always middle of the road but now it is more like Alabama.

[doc03]

23. I don't know if Ohio has changed so much

your former Democrats will say the party has gone too far left. I hear all the time I am a registered Democrat but the party left me.

[Turin_C3PO]

24. People who say that

are people who aren’t comfortable with Dems supporting liberal social issues. In other words, bigots.

[doc03]

26. You are absolutely right but it is

what it is. Like it or not.

[Lulu KC]

9. I am trapped in undecided

and have decided it's okay, but it is kind of a strange feeling, isn't it?

I'm not a strategist (oh, I wish I could be one, but I think that part got left out at the factory) so I'm not really worried about who can win over DT yet. So much can happen before November 2020, and if we don't get voting interference cleaned up and--dare I say it?--paper ballots--well, I haven't felt safe (or recovered!) since the 2000 election. When Obama won twice, I felt like I must have been dreaming. (It was such a beautiful dream. Sob.)

There is something appealing or even amazing to me about each of the top five or six except one, whose name will go unmentioned because it doesn't matter. We probably all have that one who just pushed our wrong buttons a few too many times. However, I will vote for that individual with enthusiasm if he or she is The Candidate and I will be jumping into GOTV volunteering as soon as we have the name.

But I noticed an odd swing that is kind of a summary of how this has been so far. One person I've paid hardly any attention to as a viable candidate is Amy Klobuchar. I enjoyed her tremendously during the Kavanaugh hearings, but it's like she disappears to me as a presidential contender. During the last debate, I asked a friend how Amy keeps saying, "When I am president," when it's clear she won't be, at least not this time. Then yesterday, I watched a stray thought run through my brain of, "Well, maybe Amy Klobuchar is just right for us right now."

NOTHING would surprise me at this point.

[Buckeyeblue]

12. I agree that Klobuchar has dissapeared

She doesn't strike me as having the "it" factor. But who knows. Maybe she just hasn't shown it yet.

[LAS14]

44. She hasn't really disappeared. I don't see stories about her fund raising problems.

Just think, if Biden fades, and Warren just can't do well in swing state polls, and it becomes clear that Buttigieg just can't carry the AA vote, why not Klobuchar? She does really well in the debates, and, as she's said, she's never lost an election.

[cwydro]

10. I hear ya.

I have Warren at this point, but Buttigieg, Biden, Harris, and Klobuchar are all great for me.

[Hortensis]

17. I think no one should have "excited" as a significant criterion.

The general notion that we should be looking for someone to excite us, as if we're voting for next season's entertainment lineup, degrades and warps the decision process. It suggests everything already proven, and thus unexciting, must be inferior choices. Surely brave and bold citizens should set their sights on something else, something exciting?

And don't think for a moment that steering as many as possible away from what many mainstream voters approve, and is therefore by definition unexciting, isn't much of what's behind this. There are as many motives as there are groups pushing this, but the large majority are working against us.

Seems to me that Trump and the rising threat of fascism -- that it really can happen here, and is, should be all the excitement anyone could need.

[Buckeyeblue]

18. Ideas excite me. Someone's potential can excite me.

Truly, I'm excited about getting rid of Trump. And I think just about anyone of the democrats has ideas that will be great for the country. And probably the world. But none of these candidates personally excite me. And I see that as a problem for low info and swing voters.

I've seen what candidates who excite can do. Bill Clinton excited people in 1992. We'd had 12 years of old men being our president. He was young and charismatic. I grew to get excited about Obama. He was special. Not as good at policy as Clinton but a better person and probably a better speaker.

John Kerry was not exciting. Neither was Hillary. Dukakis was horrible. As was Mondale and even Carter (whose ideas were ahead of his time).

You have to get people to want to vote for you. Not vote against the other guy. That just doesn't work.

[Hortensis]

19. There are no new ideas around today, only rehashed.

Should only top salesman and actors run for president? Shouldn't we decide which ideas we should support without requiring stimulating performance art?

What would our nation be today if boring John Kerry had been elected? Instead of W? Was "bored" people not bothering to vote, or voting for more exciting W, his fault or theirs?

How about boring Al Gore? Not the nonvoters' fault if W won again because our candidate was too bohhhring for them to get off our fingers for?

What would our nation be today if boring Hillary had succeeded exciting Obama? And whose fault is that so many didn't bother to vote for boring, helping elect exciting Trump instead? Absolutely the so manys'.

Boring old policy wonk Hillary planned for years all the very impressive things she wanted to accomplish. Not a lot pushed the far edges of possibility, but some things were genuinely new and all very needed. What a shame so many were too bored to know it and dismiss the entirety of an agenda was very large, very well thought out, and achievable. How the hell did some people get the idea that all its many ideas must be BORING because her name was on them? Or more on point, from whom?

She almost ran on a guaranteed national income for her first term. With that mindset, even that would have been dismissed as boring and inadequate along with all the rest because it came from her.

You wanted exciting instead, you got it. Now as part of rethinking, maybe revisit past choices?

[Buckeyeblue]

31. You're making my argument for me

Those individuals would have been good, if not great presidents. But they did not connect with the people in the right way. I'm sorry but charn, charisma, likability all matter, because low info voters and swing voters look to that as a difference maker.

[Hortensis]

35. Look at the pattern! [i]Telling people candidates are boring

takes them out and elects Republicans. Election after election.

And what's the truth?

What would have been so boring about the affordable college millions would have right NOW if Hillary's name wasn't on it? Those now working toward new, exciting lives? Do you think they would be bored?

How could battling both the climate crisis and blocking military attacks that could kill all of us by putting half a billion solar cells on our roofs during Hillary's first term possibly be considered boring by aware people? Cheap, sustainable energy for the entire nation was Hillary-bohhring?

Would all the people being trained for the new, well paying jobs we've been bringing immigrants in to fill have been bored? Even if you were, was it worth denying them those thrilling new opportunities?

Imo, you, and others with the notion that candidates have a duty to coax and inspire citizens to vote, all screwed up. Tragically. The pattern says this particular mindfucking has been working very well for a long time.

And now, even with Trump and McConnell as giant lessons, the pattern is repeating, with millions setting themselves up to be deceived into screwing themselves and their nation all over again.

Because even if Biden dropped dead tomorrow, whoever appealed enough to a majority to become our nominee WOULD become "boring." So boring, or maybe just so female, that millions won't see any reason to vote for him or her. Doesn't take a crystal ball to predict that.

[MoonchildCA]

60. I must be the only person that was excited about Al Gore.

He first came on my radar when he ran for president in ‘88. I saw an interview with him and I really connected to his message. In ‘92, something about Bill Clinton bugged me, but he was our candidate, so I was on board. Then, when he selected Al Gore, I became an enthusiastic supporter. The thought in the back of my mind was he would be president in 8 years. After Florida happened, I was devastated. I really prayed for a Gore ‘04 ticket, but that didn’t happen...

[Hortensis]

70. Not quite, there were others. :) But could I be the only who

realized Obama was bohrring back in 2008? (Surely not!) He wasn't of course because he was black and inspired over half the nation by being an opportunity for a great advance. But a white Obama's quiet delivery and principled messages would have made a lot of thoughtful people "fall in respect."

Those who need to fall in love, as Doc03's old saying has it, wouldn't have. And way too many in that surge who voted for a black man would instead have sat home on election day, believing there was no thrilling political superstar worth their attention to vote for.

[doc03]

25. I hear Democrats fall in love

and Republicans fall in line.

[evertonfc]

27. agree

I was hoping for a new generation too. Our last two winners have been under 50. The contrast next to Trump would be perfect but, they are all we have. Washington insiders but I'm with Joe because he will pull more of those blue collar white dudes and put more states in play.

[Midnightwalk]

29. I think people misunderstand exciting

Excitement is as much about the speaker as the message. Bill Clinton could communicate in a way that held people’s attention. Obama too but maybe not as well.

Anyone paying enough attention is excited about getting rid if trump. I’m excited about improving healthcare, fixing immigration, growing the middle class, helping student debt, making progress on climate change (most important).

I don’t think the policy debates help that much except in helping us who can sell their ideas best.

We need to win enough of the middle ground and need simple messages with a great communicator.

[Lexblues]

33. I think Mayor Pete has a lot of positives

The way he speaks, composes himself, and policy ideas really smack of a GE winner. But he is a little green and I worry if he would pass the Commander in Chief test in the fall. Also, I wonder if being gay will hurt him with enough more religious black and Latino voters to cause him to lose the EC.

[RLG]

38. He's going to be eaten alive by the conservative operatives.

He may be eloquent, but it is looking like 2004 all over again.

[RLG]

34. I'm not excited about anyone.

I'll just be a good soldier and vote for the nominee whoever he or she is.

[dalton99a]

37. It'll be some old folks and the mayor

[RLG]

39. The mayor who received over 8,000 votes in his last election.

[dalton99a]

40. With a dismal race relations record that was swept under the rug.

[RLG]

41. Don't stop there.

Remember when he said "All Lives Matter"?

His supporters are burying their heads in the sand if they don't think this issue won't return.

[dalton99a]

42. It is arrogant to assume that African-Americans don't pay attention to such things.

[Celerity]

50. you have been coming on so many threads and slagging off Buttiegieg with the same tosh since

around the time he declared.

You are a broken record. A truly amazing amount of your low post count (a post count that was extraordinarily low for a 17 plus year old 2002 account) has been non stop, repetitive attacks on Buttigieg. You had less than 100 posts when I first saw you slagging off Pete, which (that low post count) was amazing for someone who has been here for 17 plus years so caught my eye, and has continued to catch my eye given how active you have recently (over the past 7, 8 months) been in having a go at Buttigieg.

Buttigieg used the phrase once, at a South Bend event in early 2015, did NOT use it all in a context like the people who later on completely weaponised it. He never used it again after he was told how it was being used.

One of the people pushing that story about Buttigieg was far from a neutral actor, Nate Levin-Aspenson, who has worked for the most often quoted (the far left Bernie social media sphere camped out in SB for months trying to dig up dirt and so many times used her a cudgel) South Bend critic of Buttigieg, Regina Williams-Preston. Williams Preston had multiple reason to go after Pete, as she had lost a large lawsuit overy derelict proberies she and her husband owned, and she also lost multiple campaigns to Buttigieg-backed candidates, the most recent one being mayor, where she was trounced in the primary, getting only 7% of the vote. Williams-Preston was the main driver behind the spun-up and since debunked gentrification story.

The same goes for another often-quoted local Buttigieg critic, ex SB councilman Henry Davis, Jr., who lost to Pete himself in the 2015 South Bend Mayor race (the one that Buttigieg won with a wee bit over 80% of the total vote, and racked up large margins in every single precinct, including the A-A majority ones, despite his coming out as gay) and is a virulent raging homophobe, who posted a a picture of a man having sex with a dog whilst discussing his opposition to LGBT people serving openly in the military.



By the way, months later, well after Pete did, another person used the exact same phrase as well:


Hillary Clinton’s ‘All Lives Matter’ Remark Stirs Backlash

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/24/hillary-clintons-all-lives-matter-remark-stirs-backlash/

Hillary Rodham Clinton is facing backlash for saying that “all lives matter” in an African-American church in Missouri on Tuesday, offending some who feel that she is missing the point of the “black lives matter” mantra. Mrs. Clinton’s remarks at Christ the King United Church of Christ in Florissant, Mo. — only a few miles north of Ferguson, where a black teenager was shot by a white police officer last August — came during a broader discussion of civil rights in America. She was talking about how a disproportionate number of young people of color are out of school and out of work and, explaining that everyone needs a “chance and a champion,” she recalled how her mother was abandoned as a teenager and went on to work as a maid. “What kept you going?” Mrs. Clinton remembered asking her mother. “Her answer was very simple. Kindness along the way from someone who believed she mattered. All lives matter.”

snip


Did you go onto all the 2015 and 2016 Hillary threads and attack her about that over and over? It would logically follow that you did seeing how passionately you seem to feel about it when it comes to Buttigieg. You could not have done it much as you averaged about 5 or 7 posts a year from 2002 to early 2019. (17 years and less than 100 posts prior to becoming a Buttigieg trouble magnet this spring.)

[RLG]

61. Honey, I'm small potatoes compared to what conservative operatives will do to him.

Have you spoken to African Americans in this country regarding Buttigieg? Apparently not.

Well, I have. They are not happy about him trying to be the "next Obama" by copying his cadences and his speeches. They also see his lack of a comfort zone around African Americans.

As for my lack of posts since 2002, you don't know me nor do you care to know me.

I felt that Buttigieg has been given a free pass, but this is about to end. He may win Iowa and New Hampshire, but South Carolina primary will be his Waterloo. Many older African Americans will not vote for him and much younger African Americans do not trust him.

[Celerity]

64. Lol, I AM part black, and we are NOT monolithic ffs, that is such a whitesplaining (whether you

yourself are white or not) condescending, reductionist comment.

Copying Obama??? GMAFB. Patently ridiculous.

AND, I most assuredly am NOT your 'honey' so please never patronise me like that again.

[RLG]

65. I am 100 percent African American

And YOU are the one patronizing me.

[Celerity]

66. Lol, laughable in the extreme, you do not represent every black voter yet you

try and speak as if you do.

[RLG]

71. How many black voters have you spoken to?

[Celerity]

72. dozens, starting with myself, my family and my relatives

Done here, I need to get up early and do laundry.

[RLG]

73. I have spoken to an equal amount.

All are not supporters of his.

He has a long way to go.

Most likely, he'll give an Obama-like speech at a black church to enhance his image. Will it work? Who knows.

[LAS14]

43. What about Klobuchar? She's my backup candidate. nt

[dsp3000]

46. Listened to her interview on NPR and also on daily show the last few days

She would make a great candidate. I think with Biden's drop in the polls, she (and Pete) can be positioned to pick up his voters.

[pink]

47. Pete and Amy are my ideal president and veep. Either way around n/t

[redstateblues]

56. I like her a lot. She's tough and smart and knows how to win in the Rust Belt

[LAS14]

45. The really great thing about this election cycle is that we'll be OK...

... no matter who wins (Williamson and Gabbard excepted).

[yardwork]

48. Pete living in Indiana could be good for us.

If he's the nominee he probably won't deliver IN but he might help with WI, MN, MI and OH.

[Cha]

49. Biden reaps $5.3M online donation surge amid Trump attacks

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12873

I think Joe Biden is doing an excellent job attacking trump.

Link to tweet

[emmaverybo]

52. Thanks, Cha. So much for not handling Trump's attacks well. And he has consistently proved to

take the fight to Trump with vigor.

[Cha]

58. Yeah, emmaverybo.. the ".. not handling the

trump attacks very well.." does Not fly.

[redstateblues]

57. Joe is the only Dem running against Trump

All of our other candidates are running against Joe. I think Warren’s “Joe is using Republican talking points “ attack will hurt her campaign. It should. She is starting to grate.

[Cha]

59. I hadn't read that but she did say..

"Biden was running in the wrong primary.." ouch.

But it opened up this..

Link to tweet

[jcgoldie]

74. Interesting

Too bad it doesn't really match the reality in which Joe Biden began attacking Warren in this current cycle well before she even referenced him by comparing her ideas to Trumpism.

[still_one]

55. Frankly I think that is a prudent decision, though perhaps for different reasons. From my

perspective there are still way too many candidates in the race, some just in their for attention and for publicity purposes which not only serve as a distraction, but I believe hurt some of the second tier candidates who could move up if they stepped aside sooner than later

That being said. there are still a significant number of undecided voters so that really makes this still an open situation

[Buckeyeblue]

62. Who are some of the candidates that you think could move up?

What can be interesting about Iowa or New Hampshire is when you either get a surprising win or a surprising second place that really kicks off attention and momentum for that candidate.

[still_one]

63. Mayor Pete, Harris, perhaps Klobuchar, Booker maybe, and of course the top 3 tier Biden, Warren,

and Sanders

I say this because of the high number of undecideds, which can do anything

[Buckeyeblue]

67. I like Pete. I think he has a future in politics if he decides to stick with it.

I'm not sure he is ready yet. I think for a candidate in their late 30's to really make a legitimate run they need to bring something special to the table. I don't see that with him. He is solid. But doesn't have that special "it" factor yet.

[still_one]

68. We will see in a few months

[SKKY]

69. Ensuring Trump is NOT re-elected is the only excitement I need.

I am supporting Warren for now, but if a candidate emerges who will clearly and decisively beat Trump, and end this nightmare, I will switch without hesitation or remorse. We all need to be a bit more pragmatic, IMHO.