Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWarren Derides Biden as Running in 'Wrong Presidential Primary'
BloombergDemocrats are not going to win by repeating Republican talking points, the Massachusetts senator said in Des Moines, Iowa. So, if Biden doesnt like that, Im just not sure where hes going.
Warrens unusually direct attack on her campaign rival came after she released a long-awaited explanation of how she to planned to pay for her $20.5 trillion proposal to create a government-run health care system. The Biden campaign called that plan mathematical gymnastics intended to hide the fact that it would result in tax increases on middle-class workers.
The health care rift has been a defining feature of the crowded Democratic contest and has become a proxy for an broader ideological battle over how far left the party should go. One one side: Warren and Bernie Sanders, who want bold, progressive ideas. On the other: Biden and Pete Buttigieg, who say the party should be more concerned about winning back moderate voters in swing states who could be turned off by big-spending government programs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)known it wasn't working.
https://www.newsweek.com/klobuchar-draws-applause-after-slamming-warrens-medicare-all-pipe-dream-youre-making-1465486
"You are making Republican talking points right now in this room by coming out for a plan that is going to do that," Klobuchar then said to Warren. "I think there is a better way that is bold, that will cover more people and that is what we should get behind."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)about Biden instead of sniping at Warren.
BIden sniped at her; she sniped back. It's not a good look for either, IMO.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)the wrong primary...she is after all a former Republican. This sort of thing will not help her campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
myohmy2
(3,118 posts)...our Bernie is becoming the only 'positive' Dem in the race...
...but that's understandable...
...Bernie's looking at a bigger revolutionary picture...
...we can do it...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)He gives her an A for effort but . . .
Am I enthusiastically endorsing this plan? No. I still think that a public-option-type plan, which lets people buy into Medicare, would have a better chance of actually becoming reality and may well be where a President Warren actually ends up if she gets to the White House. And the plans optimism on costs and revenues could be wrong.
It's going to be a hell of a debate in November.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)is an economist and and academic.
He is not an expert in finance, financial transactions and the law, nor has he had real-world experience in the nitty-girtty details of any.
Elizabeth Warren both is and has.
Remember that SHE - not Krugman nor any Dem candidate currently running - created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau literally from scratch. She also created it despite strong pushback from some Dems.
If you're hanging your hat on Krugman's comments, please also remember that he has allowed for movement in her position (she is pragmatic after all) and the costs and revenues of ANY "plan's optimism" could be wrong.
***********
It seems that there are some who will NEVER be pleased by anything that Elizabeth Warren proposes. Like Hillary, she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)probably are off the mark. We all know from real-world experience that early calculations frequently change as projects are actually put into motion. I have no doubt that Elizabeth Warren has solid expertise in finance and financial transactions. However, her experience in 'how you get things passed' through our labyrinthian legislative process is something else. Ill stick with Nancy Pelosi as the expert in that arena. Yes, Warren birthed the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and yes, she got push back but she would not have had any success without key Democratic support for the agency.
Despite all the hollering, the American public at large is not ready to accept a complete overhaul of the healthcare industry once they realize private insurance will be disappeared. Everyone witnessed the struggle to gain passage of the ACA, the compromises that had to be made along the way. We can lecture until our faces are blue, talk about all the benefits of a M4A package but generally people will choose the devil they know over the unknown. And nothing will get done without the WH and solid majorities in the House and Senate. This whole brouhaha endangers all of that.
Now, here's something I picked up last night from a Washington Post article, something I thought was interesting. It's at the very end of the article and something I had not read before.
The senator also said that in coming weeks she will roll out a transition plan, adding, Of course, moving to this kind of system will not be easy and will not happen overnight.
Thats radically different and far more practical than what weve heard before, particularly from the Sanders camp, the idea that the Medicare for all could be set up in 4-5 years. In fact, its very close to what our other candidates have said about the public optionoffer and pass the PO as a first, huge leap towards universal healthcare, the ultimate goal.
So, Ill be waiting to see what this transition is all about. Warren may save her bacon with that simple but pragmatic detail. Because rushing and insisting on an immediate M4A package is a loser for 2020. And anything that lessens our ability to win the next election is a no-go for me.
Because defeating Trump is everything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)you that defeating Trump is everything.
But I also believe - and you probably also share this belief - that we must also have Democratic majorities in the Senate and the House.
Or else our President, whichever Dem candidate that is, will once again stand alone and embattled, with his or her hands tied by zealots who have no consciences whatsoever.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)Those majorities are critical in getting anything significant done. But regardless, Trump and his enablers must be removed because they're a genuine threat to the Republic. I honestly don't think we or our institutions can afford another 4 years of rampant corruption and lawlessness.
We have a long, angst-driven year ahead.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)If there's one thing Nancy Pelosi knows better than anything or anyone, it's the business of getting actual votes to pass legislation.
No contest!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)Maybe a better description is than ridiculous is that it is bullshit. Warren loses points for falsely insinuating Biden is a Republican. Poisoning the well.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(112,920 posts)Not pretty.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)Shes smart and tough, she can do better solid fact-based rebuttal than that. Too reminiscent of how the well was poisoned in 2016.
Of course your mileage may vary.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Somebody should tell her there is only one candidate in the D primary who has actually been a Republican....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,455 posts)She derided him for using repub talking points. That is in now way "falsely insinuating Biden is a Republican" as you wrote.
Have a nice weekend.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)So what wrong presidential primary do you think shes accusing him of running in?
The Green Party? The Libertarian Party?
Cmon Bradshaw, we all know she meant The Republican Party. I know you are not a naive person.
Have a nice Saturday night.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)during some of the most liberal times in our history, while working in very liberal academia.
I'm glad she finally switched parties. I'm still amazed it took her so damn long.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Rebl2
(13,309 posts)realize she was a Republican at one time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bradshaw3
(7,455 posts)When it comes to liberal versus conservative policies? Biden used to be known as the senator from MBNA. Then there's his role in the mass incarceration issue. I'm surprised how long it's taken him to admit he may have been worng on these and man other issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)the first to put climate change/environmental issues on the floor of the Senate...Biden got Obama to change his mind on Gay marriage. Biden is a national treasure so yeah I will compare the policies and the character for that matter...and I will add that Warren helped the medical device folks because they are in Massachussetts...you have to look after your state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)Zero. Biden may have made some mistakes but he has done a lot of good as well. A lot better than zero.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)deceitful?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...is a republican.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to George II (Reply #14)
Post removed
obamanut2012
(25,911 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backtoblue
(11,323 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,955 posts)calling him a republican I suspect will not go well for her. Democrats represents a lot of folks with various ideas
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)as they accused her of being deceitful.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backtoblue
(11,323 posts)https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-debate/biden-rips-warrens-credibility-after-contentious-democratic-debate-idUSKBN1WV18G
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)He said she was decietful, she basically said he was using republican talking points. We are bound to hear much more of this as the campaigns heat up in the primary process. One thing we can be sure of, is we have an abundance of qualified people running for president, and whoever comes out in the end will have our support. This all he can't win, she can't win is just everyone stumping for their selected candidate, and in the end it doesn't mean crap. We will all come together to get rid of the ass in the White House.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...to the Senate as a Democrat in 1972, more than 20 year before she even decided to become a Democrat. And they're only six years different in age.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)This was in response to Joe basically calling her a liar about MFA:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-says-warren-is-making-it-up-on-medicare-for-all-payment
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)ACA is not free. You do have to pay premiums.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)Call it a premium, call it a tax, there is no such thing as free healthcare. People who can't afford it will be subsidized as they should be. The rest of us will pay in some form: point of service or taxation. To pretend otherwise is simply wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
msongs
(67,193 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,955 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(91,955 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)And when his campaign said shes deceiving the American people.
And when he said he went to the floor of the house and got her the votes on CFPB. No. He actually wasnt lying then, he just confused that vote with ones he did. But, that sure didnt stop his supporters here from smearing Warren as ungrateful and mean, even though she graciously didnt tell him at the debate that he was confused and when interviewed afterwards would not be baited into criticizing him for his mistake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,955 posts)thought his criticism involved was questioning Senator Warren's credibility regarding her paying for M4A, but if he accused her of being like Trump then he deserves to be criticized for that, and it would be in my view of the same category as implying that Biden should be running in the republican primary. Both are very bad form for both candidates, but understandable if Biden fired the first shot.
Incidentally, most of Warren's rebuttal toward Biden's criticism of her M4A plan I have no issue with. The part where she implies he should be running in the republican primary, that is where I have the problem, and if Biden said Warren was like Trump I have the same problem with that.
This was the quote attributed by Warren:
Democrats are not going to win by repeating Republican talking points and by dusting off the points of view of the giant insurance companies and the giant drug companies who dont want to see any change in the law that will bite into their profits, Warren fired back.
But if anyone wants to defend keeping those high profits for insurance companies and those high profits for drug companies and not making the top 1 percent pay a fair share in taxes and not making corporations pay a fair share in taxes, then I think theyre running in the wrong presidential primary," she added."
From my perspective the only issue I had in that quote was when she implied he should be running in the republican primary. If Biden said a similar thing about Warren I have the same problem with that also
In my view calling or implying their Democratic rivals are republicans are tactics that are counterproductive. When Hillary put forth a similar, but milder argument against Obama comparing her and McCain's experience to tackle any crisis, while Obama offered nothing, I believe that worked against her at the time.
As to the CFBD, I have no argument with you on that. The CFBD was Warren's signature piece of legislation, and Biden trying to claim credit for it was simply wrong, and he rightfully deserved to be criticized for it.
As for how one's supporter's behave, I do not hold a candidate responsible for a supporters actions, unless that supporter is part of the campaign for that candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)I restrained myself many times. This latest pile on to Warren for giving a bit back to the camp constantly maligning her just went too far.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(91,955 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lexblues
(180 posts)She has a way of deflecting criticism of any plan by saying if you're against her plan, then you're for the other side. She won't engage in any meaningful debate or dialogue. She just says her plan is the best and nothing else will work and if you support a different plan, then you're for the rich and powerful.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)Biden's record...he is as I said before a national treasure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
boomer_wv
(673 posts)With that plan she should be running for President of Never Never Land, because it's a fairy tale.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Docreed2003
(16,817 posts)Is just Republican talking points?
Good to know so many Democrats opinions are worthless to some people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)shed rebut critics arguments than use that trite expression and try to shame the person.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Used against Dems who don't agree. To me, it's like the only thing you can think of to say in an argument, when you've run out of valid points.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)It's listening to the American public across the board who find the public option the more attractive choice. Comparing Joe Biden to a Republican is ridiculous. The Republicans have no plan for healthcare beyond taking away benefits from everyone.
Criticizing an unrealistic program is not Republican framing. Or maybe Senator Warren would like to try that argument on Krugman or Pelosi?
Big mistake!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Renew Deal
(81,801 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ritapria
(1,812 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(48,728 posts)Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,909 posts)the door on that one.
Have I told you I hate primaries? It's my 4th one on DU.
Mahalo for Greg Schultz' tweet, hpd!
"..Biden's running in the wrong primary.." may have sounded good in their heads but actually.. not so brilliant.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)It's going to cost her some support. Joe Biden is a solid, life-long Democrat. It's way to easy to point out that Elizabeth Warren is not that. Bad mistake. It's going to backfire on Warren, I guarantee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)all other progressive agenda from Senator Elizabeth Warren.
Every American deserves healthcare taken care of without fear of going bankrupt.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
backtoblue
(11,323 posts)The last thing the Democrats should be doing is playing Trumps game, trying to con the American people to think this is easy, Mr. Biden said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/joe-biden-elizabeth-warren.amp.html
Note: This primary is going to get dirty, im afraid
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)person. I love how she has researched policies and has such command of the facts. I love how energetic and passionate she is.
What I do not get, is the disconnect between the reality of where the country is right now. With a majority we barely pushed a smaller idea through -ACA let alone MFA or UHC. We now see 49% of the country who doesn't even believe trump should be impeached. How in the world could anyone believe that a sea change could see the light of day?
So why scare people (price sticker shock) and why make the other side think that something will happen when it's likely it won't?
All I know is that the strategy of saying something will cost $20 trillion is absolutely a show stopper. You think Republicans talked about how much their tax giveaway would cost? Hell no.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(41,921 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
backtoblue
(11,323 posts)Biden has compared Warren to being a con like Trump (see my post above)
Theyre both better than this mudslinging.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Catamount
(1,762 posts)I think it's dreadful that any of the other candidates would attack Biden at this point.
They should speak up for him, support him against the orange monster instead of doing the very thing Warren accused him of doing.
Every one of them should keep that in mind, that we have one huge goal.
We must win, but lets not engage in this cult of personality like the opposition does.
We are in high danger every day with this man in office, as you all know.
Personally I always wanted Biden to be the nominee but will support the winner whomever they are, even if I dont personally like them.
We have so much to be grateful to
for Joe, his service to this country especially in his 8 years with President Obama
without going way back into history.
We all evolve...(mostly).
He is also beloved around the world, and would help so much to heal this wounded planet.
Maybe he could even become VP again, if all else fails.
I still dream of dream teams like Kamela and Joe, or Cory and Amy
Liz and Castro, etc, may a Stacey somewhere in there!
I hope that Beto finds a great post on whatever the new dem administration is!
IMHO
One more thing, I can never understand why we cant have medicare health as well as insurance by choice simultaneously, like the system in Australia ! Works perfectly well!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Another country. We can learn so much by studying what works and what doesn't in many respects. I think we are unique in that we are fully entrenched in a for profit system. So how you transition becomes a huge constraint to deal with.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)the less I like her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Green Line
(1,123 posts)Im really tired of her pie in the sky plans.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)I like politicians with a big vision. I dont like nasty attacks on fellow Democrats. Its what turned me off to Sanders after voting for him in the 16 primary. To me it shows a lack of character. Warrens refusal to thank Biden in the debate showed that too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)Said he went to the floor and got the votes on CFPB. He did it with other votes, but, NOT that one. She was being kind to him by not telling him he was confused. What other candidate would have shown that restraint?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Green Line (Reply #58)
YOHABLO This message was self-deleted by its author.
blm
(112,920 posts)and just making things up, right?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
maximusveritas
(2,915 posts)This is a key difference I see between the Biden/Buttigiegs who may have policy disagreements with Warren/Sanders but aren't looking to divide the party and hurt our chances in November
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to brooklynite (Original post)
Post removed
Otto Lidenbrock
(581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,351 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)Thanks
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nini
(16,670 posts)Wow.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)It's insulting to me as a voter that she would suggest I am voting in the wrong primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Maybe its subliminal, lol
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)than is he to his.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)They are super-agers, but all are old past 65.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)That's one and a half Presidential terms.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)in their prime. But it is a bit much to say Warren is infinitely more in hers than Biden. They are in the same generation, both old, which need not be a pejorative term.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I think she's a few years until elderly. VP Biden is a couple of years past. They are in significantly different places career wise.if he doesn't become President he will fade off into the sunset. If she doesn't she has another likely 3 more terms as Senator. That she would be younger going into a second term than he would going into his first seems significant to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,797 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,797 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)in our party, and around the world. Obama did not put that medal around his neck for nothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)Party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Link to tweet
If my opponents want to have a debate on what they've done to truly implement progressive, meaningful change in our country not what theyre planning, not what theyre proposing, but what theyve accomplished I welcome it, he added, swiping at Warrens Ive got a plan for that mantra. But to hurl insults because we dont share the same approach for the best way to get to the same goal well that is something I would expect in the other primary. .
Biden slammed Warrens Medicare for All plan Friday, saying that the plan's proposed $9 trillion tax on employers would be passed off to companies employees.
For months, Elizabeth Warren has refused to say if her health care plan would raise taxes on the middle class, and now we know why: because it does, said Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield. Senator Warren would place a new tax of nearly $9 trillion that will fall on American workers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden