Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThis is one of only a handful of reasons why I support Biden over Warren
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The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warrens proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/01/elizabeth-warren-health-plan-2020-064259
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)-Politico.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)the fact that Biden can win the Electoral College which is state by state? We are a Center/Left country. We need a Center/Left candidate like Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tirebiter
(2,532 posts)Its like the California wildfires. It really does matter which way the wind blows.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)effective healthcare. I already trust Elizabeth to do whatever benefits the most people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,235 posts)Effective legislation for Warren's plan is entirely dependent on the outcome of the next elections.
Democratic victory in the next election is entirely dependent on majority voter support.
Losing majority voter support makes Warren's plan as ineffective as Trump's plan to "repeal and replace" Obamacare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)national election will certainly have many consequences and that's the truth!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,596 posts)that haven't a snowball's chance in Hell of getting through Congress. And because they are Senators and not clueless but well-meaning business people with no government experience, they know this. Even if the Dems were to take the Senate it wouldn't happen. Just getting ACA passed was a long, uphill battle and it's still being fought over. It makes no sense to me that candidates would promise something they know they can't deliver, even if people wanted it, which apparently a lot of them don't. I appreciate Warren's attitude of wanting to be bold and innovative, but if her plan is unpopular outside the progressive bubble she won't defeat Trump. I don't give a crap about anybody's health care plan; if Trump is re-elected we won't have the ACA and we won't have Medicare for All and we probably will end up with Medicare for Nobody. Defeating Trump should be the focus, not pie-in-the-sky programs that aren't going anywhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,981 posts)Fix the things that Republicans have broken and the things that should have been fixed years ago.
President Obama made the huge step, now we need another to fix.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)are doing it for votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,596 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NBachers
(17,081 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WheelWalker
(8,954 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Maven
(10,533 posts)Enough said.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)The idea behind her plan is that total spending on health care remains the same. What changes is how you allocate how much of it is paid for by whom.
Those trillions are going to be spent no matter what. The question is primarily one of whether the government will collect and disburse those funds vs. having most of them collected and disbursed by private insurance companies. The advantages of having the government do it include:
* the primary purpose/motivation being one of paying for health care, as opposed to the primary purpose/motivation being to be profitable for shareholders
* better ability to redirect the source of the funds so that more of it is paid for by those who can best afford it
* eliminating people's concerns about having to switch doctors and/or suddenly come up with additional money for premiums if they switch (or lose) their employment
* the ability to cover everyone vs. leaving some people out
* the ability to provide more complete coverage, where people don't have to worry about still being responsible for significant deductibles/copays or costs of uncovered (but still necessary) procedures like dental
Those last two are the things that can increase costs, which is why the "how to pay for it plan" also includes "how to reduce costs" -- and the fact that they're taking away the for-profit insurance layer is one of the factors there.
But $20 trillion is not "new spending" on health care -- it's CURRENT spending on health care, it's just a change to who is paying for it and how the money-in and money-out is being distributed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Several studies have been done to estimate the increased costs to the government for M4A, which translates into the necessary increase in tax revenue to pay for it. Most of them estimate these costs at around $32 trillion, and even Bernie agreed with these numbers. Warren is claiming it will only cost $20 trillion because she can't come up with the revenue to cover the real costs, and wants to pretend that there is no need to increase taxes on the middle class to pay for it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(144,920 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CousinIT
(9,224 posts)We have to work up to it. Starting with a public option and strengthening the ACA, including a public option. Then go from there.
Nothing against Warren or her plan. Fact is, many in America and in Washington DC will not support M4A right out the gate.
To be clear, I'll vote for her or Biden if they're the nominee. No qualms about that. I like 'em both. Biden has been in the Senate and was around when ACA was done. He probably has a better sense of what's possible. And we have to do what's possible - even if what's best isn't what's possible.
EDIT to add: post previous to mine "the squanderer" makes GREAT points about M4A that I wish Warren and more candidates who support it would focus on. As I said, I'd support her and M4A wholeheartedly if she's the nominee.
Vote BLUE, no matter WHO. No excuses.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,981 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,192 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CousinIT
(9,224 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)
and who has the most influence ($$$) - unfortunately. We've got to get big money out of our politics, goddammit. Big insurance, Big oil, Big Pharma, etc.
Wendell Potter wrote an amazing book called "Deadly Spin" which detailed, for instance, how Big Insurance fought the ACA and how their influence got a public option Obama wanted in the ACA, removed. Here is an article he wrote about Warren's plan and how they're going to fight it, again: https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/11/01/how-health-insurance-industry-allies-are-going-lie-and-attack-elizabeth-warrens
Wendell Potter used to work for Aetna. He's a big insurance whistleblower. He knows of what he speaks when it comes to big money in our politics, specifically big insurance money.
The motherfuckers care more about their goddamned corprat profits than they care about health. What we have in America isn't "healthcare", it's "WEALTHcare".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,192 posts)Looks like they changed the link... https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/11/01/how-health-insurance-industry-allies-are-going-lie-and-attack-elizabeth-warrens
Good article, needs front page treatment nationally. Certainly here on DU as well.
We are really fighting an uphill battle with the big guns, and can win, but MSM is making the truth seem fuzzy, so we need folks who can cut through with it like AOC does.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)isnt hiding in a cave in shame over this article:
A liberal case for Donald Trump: The lesser of two evils is not at all clear in 2016
Is there one? A Trump presidency needn't be a nightmare for the left. On many issues, Clinton presidency might be
WALKER BRAGMAN
APRIL 29, 2016 2:00PM (UTC)
https://www.salon.com/2016/04/29/a_liberal_case_for_donald_trump_the_lesser_of_two_evils_is_not_at_all_clear_in_2016/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(296,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WA-03 Democrat
(3,037 posts)May it wash all the orange away!
Mahalo Cha!
Biden will beat Tru$$ia like a drum
GO JOE GO!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(296,848 posts)to you!
"Tru$$ia.. that's totally appropriate!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,915 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,404 posts)So all it is is a fantasy with no political upside past the primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)Ah duh, why would that be? Is that what the majority wants?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(144,920 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)is in panic mode. That's why there appears to be a "stop Warren" campaign afoot.
P.S. Don't @ me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden