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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:49 PM

 

The "Medicare for All" Conversation Is Surreal

This is what makes the whole conversation about Medicare for All so surreal. On the primary trail, Warren and Bernie Sanders are trying to outdo one another over who has the best plan to nationalize the American health insurance system. Journalists and think tankers—myself included—are scrutinizing the detailed mechanics of their proposals while the candidates’ supporters snipe at one another. Just about every primary debate has started with a repetitious scuffle over single payer. The topic has sucked the oxygen out of almost any other major policy discussion.


snip

Even if Democrats can retake the Senate—which would require a small miracle—there is more than enough opposition to kill a single-payer bill. Sitting Sen. Amy Klobuchar is campaigning for president on a platform that consists largely of trashing Medicare for All. Ohio’s Sherrod Brown, long one of the chamber’s most progressive members, says that it would be a “terrible mistake” for the Democratic nominee to support Medicare for All. Joe Manchin exists. Kyrsten Sinema exists. These are the facts on the ground. And while Bernie Sanders can threaten moderates like Manchin all he likes, American presidents don’t exactly have the greatest track record of bending a recalcitrant Congress to their wills, even when they’re relatively fresh off an election win and Capitol Hill is led by their own party. (See: Donald Trump and Obamacare repeal, George W. Bush and Social Security privatization, Bill Clinton and his health care plan.)

So why are we even talking about Medicare for All at this point?

One part of the answer is that presidential campaigns aren’t just about making realistic promises about what you’ll do in the White House, but are also about laying out a broader philosophical vision. They are also a chance to change public opinion: Single payer was barely on the public’s radar before Bernie Sanders ran in 2016. Now it’s mainstream. And while Sanders and Warren might have little chance of passing Medicare for All as president, their efforts to build support for it could pay off one day down the line when President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is entering her first 100 days in office. It’s fair to think about all this as part of a larger, ideological battle over the party’s very long-term future, not just on health care policy but regarding the entire size and role of government in society.


snip

But there’s an additional, possibly more cynical layer of this whole odd debate. Warren is fighting to win over Sanders voters (or at least trying to make herself acceptable to them) and has pretty clearly decided that hugging single payer for dear life is the only way she can do it. Early on in the campaign, she was wishy-washy on health care. It wasn’t really her issue. When Bloomberg’s Joe Weisenthal asked her in January whether she’d support banning private insurance or preferred something more like a public option, she basically answered: Yes, all of the above.


https://slate.com/business/2019/11/medicare-for-all-warren-bernie-democrats.html

If reason is to be applied to the debate, it is clear that MfA has a snowflake's chance of being passed any time soon. In the mean time, the debate seriously cuts into the chances of winning the next election, no matter who is the eventual Democratic nominee.

So, is the entire MfA debate useless or even worse, counter-productive? Hell no! It defines a long-term narrative for the Democrats and clears the path to single payer health care in one form or another, however long it might take. Just let's not lose perspective, and let's take it easy on the rhetoric. The first step, which makes all other steps possible, is to end the Trump nightmare and take charge of government.


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:55 PM

1. I hate to quote Joe Scarborough

 

but he has a point that M4A has as much chance of passing as Mexico paying for the border wall.
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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:51 PM

14. Ouch!!

 

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:59 PM

2. Promises, promises

 

Don’t forget our upwards of $1.5 T annual deficit, thanks to the new tax law. Biggest transfer of wealth in US history. We won’t even be able to honor current Medicare, SS and Medicaid commitments, much less entertain the plethora of fanciful proposals being considered by some to gain support in an election year.
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Response to enid602 (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:18 PM

9. Lets not forget that Warren intends to rewind the Tax cuts to help pay for M4A

 

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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:33 PM

13. Focus

 

Doesn’t seem to be the focus of her message. I think the republicans will fight to the death to protect their tax legislation.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:01 PM

3. The point is to take attention away from our shitetastic health care system

 

and convince us that what we have (the worst health care system in the western world from a patient standpoint) is so much better than what we could have.

Carry on.
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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:17 PM

8. And you are willing to bet four more years of Trump while you are at it?

 

No thanks!
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:19 PM

10. See, we just got nowhere together

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:21 PM

18. Only Republicans do that.

 

Carry on.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:02 PM

4. Well said!

 

Keeping it in the discussion is great but we can stop getting into the weeds about the details and stop sniping at each other about it.
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Response to redqueen (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:08 PM

6. However, keeping the single payer issue in discussion, is not what is driving EW and BS.

 

The cost -benefit ratio for all Dems is suspect.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:05 PM

5. Hear, hear.

 

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:17 PM

7. I don't like to say this, but as I am reading the snips of the article, not having scrolled all the

 

way down, I start thinking to myself "this must have been posted by a Biden supporter", then I scroll down and I see Biden's picture corroborating my suspicion.

DISCLAIMER: If Biden becomes the nominee, I WILL SUPPORT HIM. THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-BIDEN opinion, its a PRO-HEALTHCARE-FOR-ALL opinion.

We, as citizens need to think, expect, demand, whatever you want to call it "healthcare for all", why do we have to settle for less? The meme that republicans and the healthcare industry have put out that "people love their current health insurance" is just that, a meme trying to sway public opinion.

Many countries in the World have had universal healthcare for its citizens for years, there is no reason, besides the insurance and medical industry push-back, that the USA cannot have the same and work great for all its citizens.

I wish this kind of articles would not pop-up now and then for the simple reason to support a candidate's antiquated and negative view on something that should have been implemented a long time ago. We all benefit from universal healthcare, whether you call it "Medicare for All", or "Obamacare", or whatever. We need to support it, and not support the opposite just because the candidate we like won't support it, lets make our preferred candidate understand that we do want universal healthcare, have him/her change his/her tune on the subject, not the other way around.
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Response to Perseus (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:31 PM

12. Is your observation a compliment or a criticism?

 

Your point depends on how you define "settle". Obamacare is the single most significant healthcare legislation since the inception of Medicare. And extremely popular. I doubt you would be able to convince the majority of voters that they have settled for less.
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Response to beastie boy (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:08 PM

15. Obamacare is a positive move forward, but its not enough

 

Universal Healthcare must be the goal. Obama's goal was bigger than what Obamacare delivered, by no fault of Obama's administration, there was a lot of rejection from republicans, but M4A must be the goal, and some of the candidates seem to think it is impossible, which is not. If other countries have been able to implement it successfully there is no reason why the USA cannot do the same.

Some candidates are even repeating the republican meme that some people "love their insurance", that must stop.
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Response to Perseus (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:18 PM

17. Hey, I am convinced! One down, 50,000,000 to go, including 28,000,000 Obamacare recipients !

 

And most of them love their insurance. No, it's not just me repeating the republican meme. They really do.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 01:27 PM

11. Here is how I see it.

 

Single Payer is the goal for a lot of Democrats and people on the left. Not enough to make it even close to a reality. People who understand how to get it done are offering varying ways to get there. Others are trying to continue building public support for Single Payer, which isn't there, but their voices are necessary if it is to ever get there.

Single payer is currently closing in on the later stages of being an activist driven idea. The concept hasn't been fully accepted by the party or it's voters but it's building. It's still a concept being driven by activist.

This is what such a fight looks like. I think it's a good thing.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2019, 06:13 PM

16. Hillary Clinton: Warren's Medicare for All plan would never get enacted

 




Hillary Clinton said Wednesday that she does not think Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-Mass.) "Medicare for All" plan could ever get enacted and that she backs a public option instead.

“You just don't think that that plan would ever get enacted?” interviewer Andrew Ross Sorkin asked Clinton at The New York Times DealBook Conference.

“No, I don't. I don't, but the goal is the right goal,” the former secretary of State responded.

“I believe the smarter approach is to build on what we have. A public option is something I've been in favor of for a very long time,” Clinton said. “I don't believe we should be in the midst of a big disruption while we are trying to get to 100 percent coverage and deal with costs.”

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