Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumExclusive: Economist who backed Warren healthcare plan has doubts about her wealth tax
Link to tweet
Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moodys Analytics, also voiced skepticism that the wealth tax provision in Warrens plan - a key funding mechanism - will produce predicted levels of revenue because those targeted by the tax will seek to dodge it.....
Zandi said despite signing a highly touted letter last week backing the calculations for Warrens Medicare for All plan, he does not support shifting Americans off the private health insurance they have in favor of a single-payer, government-run regime.
I am not a fan of Medicare for All, said Zandi, who is not affiliated with any Democratic presidential campaign and does not speak for the Warren campaign. We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)MFA results in a "Tax cut" for most Americans
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)issue in the general ...I believe. K&R.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Red Oak
(697 posts)snip
Does Anyone Really Love Private Health Insurance?
I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them.
...I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them. My insulin refills have been delayed countless times, not because of medical reasons, but because of what seem to be arbitrary insurance limits and requirements to continuously document my condition, which is permanent. Once, my insulin refill was delayed so long that I ran out, just when the insurance office closed for a three-day weekend. I was a student, away from home, with no other way to pay for my prescription. Terrified, I rushed to the pharmacy in tears. The pharmacist took pity on me and slipped me a vial of insulin without charge, saving my life.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Amazing coverage.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)have red tape, criteria to be met to get this or that drug, be eligible for a surgical procedure, and long wait times are baked into state run healthcare. In England, ERs frequently close up due to demand and provider shortage, Many people there and in other single payer, government-centered system countries end up paying out of pocket. Delays are legendary.
With or without M4All, we have to fix problems In the existing systems and preserve them from being gutted because we will not get M4All for years. Meanwhile Medicaid and Medicare are at risk. And it is true that there are private insurance horrors from out of network emergencies to the situation you describe that put your life at risk.
Some private insurance offer much better benefits counseling and actual intervention than others. They should all be regulated, standardized so that they offer advce nurses, efficient handling of documentation, urgent care, out of network coverage for emergency and catastrophic illness, case management. Drug costs must be brought down along with all medical costs whatever program one is on and in order to have good quality universal healthcare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,277 posts)BUT, I am totally NOT convinced that MFA can be passed. I also would rather see my employers share of my health insurance come to ME. That is part of my total compensation. If it means I have to pay higher taxes, I'll do that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"
Zandi didn't back Warren's health care plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)She needs to get real soon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The rest of the industrialized world has better health care and at a lower cost. No way in heck the wealthiest nation on Earth could ever do that! Too expensive! Won't work!
Heck, even Iceland has good national health care. Not the good ol' US of A, though. We need to pay those Pharma salaries and keep the mega insurers well fed at the trough.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)trying to cram MFA down the throats of people who dont want it, rightly or wrongly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,319 posts)How are we going to get a public option through a Republican senate!?!?!!11?
How is a public option goin to insure and pay for 30 million uninsured!!??1!?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Sanders and Warrens promises to voters are not viable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)The health care industrial complex hates all of our candidates' plans with a passion and they are geared up to smear as much FUD on the public option as on MFA:
In an interview with The Hill, AHIP CEO Matt Eyles spoke out against Mr. Biden's healthcare plan, which aims to strengthen the ACA while also introducing a public health insurance option. Mr. Eyles said the public option, which would be similar to Medicare, would lead to too much government involvement in the healthcare system.
"If you're creating a government-run option that essentially leverages price controls, and relies on a government-administered system, that doesn't create what would be a competitive playing field," Mr. Eyles told the publication. "We're viewing Medicare for All and all of these other variations on it, as similarly bad."
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/payer-issues/ahip-comes-out-against-biden-s-healthcare-plan.html
AHIP is a member of the anti-Medicare for All industry group called the Partnership for Americas Health Care Future, which has been running ads against Medicare for All and public option proposals from the leading Democratic presidential candidates. They want to keep things just as they are.
https://americashealthcarefuture.org/about-us/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I believe 80% will take it within 5 years of introduction, if a government plan is even half as good as we think.
I dont believe a Democrat will get elected Prez running on mandated MFA, no matter how much you dont want it. And if we lose Presidency, House and Senate are at risk.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,319 posts)They are both ranked as low cost! Can we now stifle about how are we going to pay for MFA?
Ill take the low cost high quality plan that covers EVERYONE without convoluted hoops to jump through.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,319 posts)This place can be so confusing sometimes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)Read the material posted
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I'm concerned."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)We're ostensibly intelligent people. If you're going to disagree, go ahead and disagree with whatever facts you have. We don't need you to dadsplain reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)I really do not think that Warren's plan can be adopted in the real world. There are a number of Democratic Senators who will never vote to eliminate the filibuster or vote this plan. I would love to understand how this plan could be adopted in the real world. I note that Hillary Clinton also doubts that Warren's plan could be adopted in the real world
Link to tweet
You just don't think that that plan would ever get enacted? interviewer Andrew Ross Sorkin asked Clinton at The New York Times DealBook Conference.
No, I don't. I don't, but the goal is the right goal, the former secretary of State responded.
I believe the smarter approach is to build on what we have. A public option is something I've been in favor of for a very long time, Clinton said. I don't believe we should be in the midst of a big disruption while we are trying to get to 100 percent coverage and deal with costs.
I really want to know how this plan will be adopted.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)It is Warren who is trying to sell this plan that has no chance of passing in the real world. It is her burden to explain how this plan can be adopted in the real world.
I trust Hillary Clinton on this issue. Hillary is very smart and very tough
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Most sitting Senators allow you to submit questions and comments to them from their website.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)I and a good number of real democrats are working hard to turn Texas blue. In 2018, we flipped 12 seats in the Texas House and 2 congressional seats. We need to pick up 9 seats in the Texas House of Representatives to flip this body and control redistricting. I am working on 2 campaigns for state house seats. The DCCC has targeted 6 congressional seats and I am working on one of these campaigns. If Texas down ballot candidates are forced to run on an unpopular policy such as Warren's plan, we will lose these races I really like Larry Sabato and agree with this study http://crystalball.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/medicare-for-all-a-vote-loser-in-2018-u-s-house-elections/
Several Democratic candidates, including former Vice President Joe Biden, who has led in most national polls, have been highly critical of this idea. These candidates, along with a number of health policy experts and pundits, have attacked Sanders and Warrens Medicare for All proposal as prohibitively expensive and politically unrealistic. They have also argued that embracing Medicare for All would alienate many independents and moderate Democrats and risk costing Democrats the electoral votes of several key swing states.....
Conclusions
An analysis of the impact of Medicare for All on the 2018 House elections indicates that Democratic challengers and open seat candidates in competitive districts who endorsed a version of Medicare for All similar to that proposed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren did significantly worse than those who did not. This negative effect, close to five points of margin after controlling for a variety of other factors, was clearly large enough to affect the outcomes of some House contests.
It is possible that the estimated effect of Medicare for All was a byproduct of other differences between supporters and non-supporters. For example, supporters might have taken more liberal positions on a variety of other issues as well as Medicare for All. Even if that is the case, however, these findings are not encouraging to supporters of Medicare for All. They indicate that candidates in competitive races who take positions to the left of the median voter could get punished at the polls. Democratic presidential candidates would do well to take heed of these results, particularly as the eventual nominee determines what he or she wishes to emphasize in the general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It's electability seems to me a different issue altogether.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I require no further clarification.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)I and other true Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. We hope to pick up six congressional seats in addition to the two seats we flipped in 2018. We have a chance to defeat Cornyn in the Senate. The Democrats picked up 12 seats in the Texas House and need 9 more to take control of the Texas House prior to the next redistricting session. If Biden is the nominee, Texas will be a battleground state. If Warren or sanders is the nominee. Texas will not be a battle ground state and we can forget about keeping the two seats that we flipped in 2018
Speaker Pelosi is worried about losing control of the House with a weak top of the ballot ticket with a program that will kill down ballot candidates
.
Link to tweet
This is going to cause down-ballot damage in swing districts and states if shes the nominee, Buentello says, describing how her Pueblo-area constituents who voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in 2016 were already echoing criticisms about a giant, one-size-fits-all big government run plan that cancels private health insurance and raises taxes.
Story Continued Below
The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warrens proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.
The long-awaited plan to raise the $20.5 trillion she says is needed to pay for single-payer health care in America is Warrens attempt to answer critics after weeks of questions from rival candidates about the cost of her proposal and the prospect of higher taxes. Warren promised, as she has in the past, that "not one penny in middle-class tax increases is necessary to finance the effort.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)
Gothmog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Most of the countries rely on a mix of government funded plans along with private insurance. Expanding Medicare as it exists today, along with a public option and reversing the Republican sabotage of the ACA is much closer to what other countries have.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)tax and had to get rid of it. They also do not have perfect systems. NHS is increasingly privatized,
suffers terrible doctor and nurse shortages, has long waiting times even for screening tests like cervical cancer, many horror stories the result of uneven, hurried, or lax care, ER shut downs frequently, and many there rely on private insurance and paying out of pocket.
Painting too rosey a picture, not being forthright about taxes, relying on a whole other cost-source that may or may not come to be, and not dealing with what to do for the years it would take for
M4All to be implemented, are flaws in the proposal that will not go away no matter how many times proponents call challenges RW talking points or try to shame people who want to build on ACA as selfish.
No other industrialized country with socialized healthcare gives undocumented residents full coverage. Why? Not feasible. First, we need to document our immigrant workers, get DACA up and running, take care of those we hope will be given asylum, prepare for the possibility of refugees, and then carefully consider, once we have over 11 million more people covered, the impact on the system if we also extend full benefits to all the undocumented people in the world. Because that, taking care of the undocumented other socialized medical systems dont is what we will end up doing. That is a part of Warrens plan, something that is not doable if all the rest could miraculously get done.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)were trumps appeal too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)(devil's advocate here) or have trump's lying promises left a mark?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)The details are needed for voters to look at and have financial people scan for viability.
Which is why the details are frequently not provided . You start peering under the hood and suddenly that bold, bright idea doesn't look terribly credible or doable. Which is the case with M4A funding and the proposed Wealth Tax.
That being said, better to have those warts exposed now than during the General Election. Because then, the slicing and dicing machine will be notched up to the max.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)how are ppl either missing this, ok with it or too beat down to fight that?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
FloridaBlues
(4,007 posts)People love for someone else to pay to things hence the popularity at this moment in time but reality will come into play regarding this plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)will take years to implement M4All if ever. Biden asked in the debates whats going to happen in the meantime to provide healthcare? No answer. Medicare and Medcaid are at risk. Warren has said not a word about protecting them or boosting ACA.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)I personally doubt that the proposed Wealth Tax is constitutional. The direct tax clause of the US constitution is clear and the 16th Amendment does not authorize this tax
Link to tweet
The fate of a wealth tax, then, would hinge on whether it counts as a direct tax. Thats a tough question to answer, because the Constitution itself doesnt really define what a direct tax is, beyond the fact that the category includes a poll tax, which is a fixed amount charged for every person. Taxes like tariffs and certain others that cant be fairly distributed on a per-person basis are generally not considered direct taxes. But how all of this would apply to a wealth tax isnt entirely clear. The Supreme Court weighed in on this question more than 100 years ago and not in the wealth taxs favor. In 1895, the court struck down a federal income tax law because it taxed income generated from property, including land and other kinds of personal property, like stocks and bonds. The decision was controversial, and Congress and the states effectively reversed part of it 20 years later with the passage of the 16th Amendment which allowed Congress to tax income without worrying about how evenly it was distributed. But Congresss authority to tax wealth wasnt addressed by the amendment, and the Supreme Court hasnt really returned to the issue in the past century.
Warrens defenders argue, however, that the court simply got it wrong back in 1895, and that a modern wealth tax wouldnt count as a direct tax. But the courts right-leaning justices might approach the tax with a less favorable eye. And the existence of the old precedent could give the courts conservative justices a way to dispatch a wealth tax relatively easily, which gives experts like Daniel Hemel pause. A wealth tax could raise trillions of dollars or, if its struck down by the Supreme Court, it could raise nothing, said Hemel, a law professor at the University of Chicago. Thats a really big risk if you care about the redistribution of income and youre trying to figure out how to get it done.
This tax is not likely to survive legal challenge
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)In the end, the numbers will always have their say.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)that in the context of about 4O additional very extensive and costly plans, from clean energy to
universal childcare to student debt forgiveness to a large social security raise to free college to billions upon billions she is promising to multiple other projects, there is no way.
She can pick three or four. She can modify.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,595 posts)He says: We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"
NO, not all of the 160 million people who have private insurance are "pretty happy" with it.
That's just flat wrong.
Unfortunately I don't have numbers, but I bet someone does.
I personally think my private insurance sucks. Having it is better than not having it. But it doesn't take genius-level creativity to imagine a better system. Especially if one has been in the military and experienced just going to the doctor when you need to go to the doctor, and not having to jump through a bunch of bullshit hoops and still wonder how much $$ is going to come from where to pay for it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Iggo
(47,546 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It doesn't have any practical implication. I mean, I'm satisfied with my insurance right now. I might be less satisfied if I'm diagnosed with a serious illness and suddenly realize how little my plan actually covers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I'm not saying there aren't good arguments against Warren's plan. I'm saying the "people are happy with their insurance" isn't one of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Gothmog (Original post)
Iggo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,063 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden